Great review, spot on. I've had a Himilayan for 4 years and its a great bike. Its my favorite go to bike for pure fun and does everything pretty damn good. I have a 2 stroke single track ktm, a street bike, and a cruiser .....however if could only keep one bike it would be the himilayan.
I've been riding since 1972 and I think you gave really solid advice here. It was well thought out, substantiated, and even handed. Great job! Subscribing now...
I'm 60, brought a Pan Am in March 2023, have dropped it 4 times, has not been a problem yet, and it is 260kg. Did some enduro and motocross 30 years ago, all good in my mind :)
Good video, great advice. I have owned both bikes and agree with everything you say. If you can only own one bike to do everything then I’d always choose the Himalayan. If you have a road bike and you are looking for a second bike for trails then the CRF.
I would Echo everything that has been said here. I recently rode from here in the Midlands down to the French and Italian Alps with a friend in order to do a lot of off-roading on principally the TET. I rode a Himalayan and my friend rode a CRF250Rally. Both bikes were very good but the trails we're never too difficult for the Himalayan and the Honda CRF rally didn't particularly have an edge. However, given that we inevitably had to do a lot of road work, the Himalayan was head and shoulders better than the CRF in terms of comfort, handling and simply being more manageable. The 15 litre tank helped. We had no mechanical issues with either bike but I take the point about the relays on the Himalayan. Another great video, Nathan. Cheers.
I owned a 2019 Himalayan for 6000 plus miles and my only complaint is the steel wheels. Never felt the need for suspension upgrades. Only sold it because the supply chain issues meant someone wanted it more than I wanted to keep it. I then bought a new KLX300SM that I have ridden everywhere I rode the Himalayan with the exception of mud. A tire change would solve that if I really wanted to ride muddy trails. I considered the 300 rally, but never found one for sale, and I knew I would have spent additional money fixing its shortcomings as delivered.
Very interesting piece Nathan. I have owned a 2020 Himalayan and now own a 2019 CRF250 Rally. I loved the whole idea of the Himalayan but was severely let down by the appalling build quality. It had to go. I then found a very reasonably priced CRF250 and snapped it up. What a difference. great build quality. great trail capability and reasonable road performance. I know that trying both machines out by owning them isnt something everyone can afford but Royal Enfield kind of forced my hand with their poorly made bike and awful after sales service. The Himalayan promises much but I will never buy another Royal Enfield. The Honda is a whole different story. Its great on the trail, Im not an off road god, just a green laner. Road performance is ok but the little motor has to work pretty hard. As an older rider, I feel confident to ride alone safe in the knowledge that I can pick the CRF up in the event of a drop. The Himmy is heavy, there is no getting away from that.I suppose I would be very happy if Honda made a Himalayan type bike. The bottom line here is that in my humble opinion the Honda CRF 250 or 300 is the better bike and the better choice.
Is it possible you came in with incorrect expectations? The RE is a good two thousand dollars less than comparable engine adventure bikes. Or more is it not? So if you had proper expectations you'd be singing it's praises.
Informative vid Nathan,, I,v had my Him 4 yrs,and have never enjoyed taking it off road. I really dislike my feet being so far apart...But the other week I just fancied abit of offroad,,, It was wet and muddy and my tyres where Met Tourance(not the best) I rode next to a river ,cut a long story short down she went ,,and being 66 I nearly *hit myself ,, but with a bit of giggling and the fact its got givi bars helped me get it upright..Of course I was covered in mud,,, I think the Honda is a dual/sport off road bike,,, its not a travel bike,,the him you can carry as much as you like and it just shrugs it off ,,it,s tough,,its a tough bike ,I would say more tough then a CRF.. and regarding servicing ,aslong as you keep the revs below 5000 ,the tappets hardy need touching..My bike is in the process of having a rebore and head bearings done at cooperb,,so I have faith... cheers
Thanks Nathan. Another interesting and informative discussion. Over the past few years I’ve been riding a few of the lightweight adventure bikes and have retained the Himalayan, the CRF300 and my trusty 310 GS. (The CCM GP450 has gone to pastures new). One thing that perhaps isn’t covered in this video is the need for upgrades. My CRF and 310GS have both had Rally Raid upgrades to make them great rides, the Himalayan on the other hand, hasn’t required much at all to make it a fun adventure bike and as bog-standard it is fair to say that Himalayan is a great all rounder. Which do I prefer ? Well TBH it’s whichever I am riding at the time … they all have their good and not so good points but they are all amazing bikes to ride. If I was heading out around the world instead of spending a few months just now escaping the UK winter and riding around New Zealand, I think it would be the Honda for peace of mind …. although I have no evidence to suggest that the 310 or Himalayan wouldn’t be just as good 👍
Yeah I realised I missed out the possible need for suspension mods to CRF vs Himalayan that works straight out of the crate. Glad you mentioned it in the comments as it is important.
Great summary, well thought out. RE: weight - maybe the bottom line is you need to be able to pick a bike up before you choose it for solo trail use. if you cant, maybe you`re not fit/experienced enough for SOLO trail riding, it can be physically demanding. (you wouldn`t go hillwalking if you knew you weren`t up to it). If you struggle climbing the hill, you just walk back down. If you get in trouble solo on a trail bike miles from help, it could become serious.
Good video. Great advice. Several years ago I was trying to sell a Suzuki SV650. Someone contacted me with some interest. He said he really wanted a Ducati Monster but might settle for the SV650 based on price. I told him that he needed to buy the bike that excited and motivated him to ride. I didn't sell him the SV650.
Actually, if your body isn't broken (and I know about this being 62 with a few bone & joint problems) then the better thing to do is to get into some phys-ed. Maybe a rowing machine, some cardio and weights. Benefits everything, including one's ability to pick up the bike. Don't give up, we could get at least another decade doing this :-)
Yeah totally agree with you Liam. I've been trying to get fitter over winter and the difference its made in terms of comfort on the bike and confidence on the trails has been well worth it so far. You're definitely right to mention it. Cheers
Agree Liam..After watching Drock and Jen(Precipice of Grind) Jen suggested Squats, which I've started including bicycle riding to get the legs ready. Any kind of physical activity can help with lifting the bike. ( Himalayan delivery 2 /15/2023 Eurosport Vegas.)( 62 and this is part of my retirement plan)
I suggest joining a gym I’m 61 and go 5 times a week,the hardest part is getting there in the first place(I choose a gym that’s on my way home from work),once you’re there it’s easy to do your workout.
Nathan, your experience on so many of these machines and honest view of all aspects of riding really helped me decode on my next bike....I'm 65 and I've done the Nortons BSA's Suzuki 900 Honda cbr 600 now owning a 43 year old BMW 800....easy plod from a single thumper is going to be great....when I decided to buy another bike I had the idea of 500 single (idea based on a bsa 500/ccm 500 and the Himalayan hits the mark....there's a lit if them out there and that says everything about it.... Great posts as always..thank you.... When I've got mine I'm definitely heading over to Europe Cheers John
It's not for everyone, but personally I enjoy getting hands-on with my Himalayan, the short service intervals mean I can spend some time getting to know the workings of it..also I totally agree, you sit in the Himmy and on the Honda....still, a nice choice to have...
I purchased the 300 Rally because I wanted a larger tank, windshield/fairing and LED head lights. Adding all this aftermarket vs getting it installed from Honda was an easy decision for me. I since added YSS suspension, tires, seat concepts, and more +++ for a custom fit. No regrets.
Hi Nathan, my wife and I both had Himalayans and had steering head bearing issues and I found that the although the lower bearing was rusty ( knackered ) it was the seals that caused the problem as they did not contact the head tube and seal, so I re-shaped the seal cup and fixed the problem, no more problems. You probably already know this, if so please ignore. Great work keep it up.
Great summary. Despite having done some off road in the past on dedicated bikes, I was blown away at how easy the Hamalayan was to ride off-road. I found the CRF pretty horrible on the road..... but reliability is a big factor for me so that would push me towards a Jap bike.
I've ridden the Himalayan and I own the Kawasaki klx 300. Conclusion: the Himalayan is better for the open road long stretches. The dual sport 300 cc honda/kawi are terrific around town commuting, twisties. The light weight and strong power to weight ratio make for good acceleration for what it is. Of course the Kawasaki has excellent stock suspension.
If you want electronics and service intervals it’s Honda, if you want self service and a work horse it’s Himalayan imo. Himalayan has a kind of charm that no other bikes have even in RE lineup. It has been to actual Himalayas so it’s not a poser and if you are a decent rider you can always do awesome things with both machines
I have a 22 Himalayan and love it. Its a brilliant bike for the value. For now its my commuter but will be taking it longer multi day back road trips. Great video and very honest.
What a great comparison video “very well done” I’m on a Euro 4 Himmi and bought on purpose to avoid some the later issues it’s coming up to 7k and iv just stripped down the head bearings cleaned and regressed cos the steering was getting stiff, I did the cam on it just after I bought just really to give a little more legs to over take, I live in Whiltshire & I’m off to Scotland 🏴 to do the NC500 again 😊 did it in 2018 on a GSA so this will be a slightly different experience I’m doing A roads all the way up & down so will probably see & enjoy more scenery leaving 11th - 19th May Love the Himmi iv done 6k in the last year and if I put that against the GSA 2k in a year it says it all really, But something else some people might not now is get other and join your local Royal Enfield branch because along with the bike it’s been the fellowship of the people I ride with that make it Sooo much more fun… Regards Martyn 🏍💨
Thanks Nathan I have ordered a CRF300 Rally and when it comes I plan to keep my Himalayan for a while before selling it as I do like it for all the reasons you have said. It is a very confidence inspiring bike. Just a couple of comments not related to the bikes but to beginner riders I have learnt to stand up when riding anything tricky off-road which takes a little while to train your brain to do. I have been doing some introductory Trials riding which has improved my confidence and ability I would highly recommend this get a cheap old Trials bike and get a few lessons. Also I take my time and ride fairly slowly at my own pace exactly what Nathan said. I will let your know what I think of the CRF when I get it in about 6 months. Thanks Nathan for the awesome explanation of the two bikes
I took my 2019 Himalayan from SE Spain up to SE France, then through the Pyrenees, across N Spain, down across the Picos, down Portugal, north to south (away from the coast), then zigzagged across Spain, west to home back in the south east. 5,000 miles, not one issue on the trip. Only issue I have is that the battery discharges over the course of a week or so, even with the Hitchcock loom fitted. Simply to disconnect the battery if I am not going to use it for a week or so. Great bike, ideal for where I live with many tracks that start just 25 metres from my front gate.
Great comparison... surely the next question is Himilayan versus Voge 300 Rally? Do the same points regarding the Honda translate to the Voge? Keep up the great videos!
Your usual solid chat, enjoyed that! Have ridden Himalayan on road/trail for a day & now have crf250 rally after chatting with you the other year & really happy with my choice. Having ridden both a couple of opinions that might be useful, on the road the 6th gear does help the crf & the brakes far more confident at speed than the RE, & i think you've said maintaining road momentum on these bikes is as much about the rider as it is machine power. The honda will do good speed all day, but you have to tune into giving it revs. I've upgraded my clutch, they're known to be weak with the judder spring and a shropshire hill & my skill level 🤣 gave it a real hammering...I prefer the slightly heavier, non-judder spring set up. With a himalayan i think you'd be less troubled about glue&tape on indicators after the inevitable forray into a bank 😉 If looking at the Honda, for UK & maybe european distances i was suprised at the nearly 90mpg, so even for some travel an L is cheaper, will give enough range for our conditions, is lighter & will drop better. You could add a screen/ bigger tank if felt neceesary for your riding later.🏍🤘
Hey man, amazing video thanks a lot, super insightful. I am going on a very long trip through the silk road, crossing China, Mongolia, Khazakstan, Kyrgistan, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Iran, Turkey and then Europe. So a fair bit of paved roads, but also a lot of very tricky terrain, snow, river crossings with knee deep water, mud, sand, etc. I have very limited experience (few days offroad on CRF 250, 1 year on road on a Z350). Will be on my own. I am in no rush at all, I don't mind going slower on the highway portions, I will not try to race or anything. I was gonna do this trip on a bycicle, I see the "upgrade" to the motorcycle as a way to go a bit faster, but not to do any performance or crazy stuff. CRF 300 sounds like the perfect choice based on what I've heard and your video. BUUUUT: I am 100kg / 6"2 and I will have quite some gear (camping gear + 10kg of Camera gear + clothes + water + spare gas/oil) , total will likely be 30-40kg. And I'm a bit worried with the weight limit of the CRF 300 (even after upgrading suspensions, chassis might still fail). What do you think? Would this make the Himalayan (or something else like a CB500) a better option? Any tips would be super helpful :) Thanks!
I've never heard any problems about... the chassis failing? A friend of mine did a couple of trips around Europe on a stock CRF250L with his girlfriend (so total weight around 170kg?), no problems at all.
probably waaaay too late but I wouldn't even consider the Honda - based on your experience. I'd also wonder just how you think the 300 is physically going to carry that - and how you're going to re-charge 10kg of camera gear (before it get's nicked that is) but good luck!
I’m 62. My wife and I ride a pair of Trail 125s to get about. We can get into trouble but hopefully not too much trouble. Works capably off pavement but you’re automatically dissuaded from going nuts
Agree, I’ve had both (& I’m 64), we’ll a 250 anyway. By the way I’m a TRF member & rarely keep up with them nutters but you can always get a Beta or KTM if you find you like the hard core off road😉.
Excellent analysis. Thank you. I've got the Himalayan and (at 67) I find difficult (correction impossible!) to pick up on my own so I'm looking for a gadget to help with that.
@@stevec-b6214 thanks for that Steve. I did try the techniques that I'd seen in videos e.g. facing forwards and backwards but to no avail, I had to call for help. The up side was that it was a beautiful day with fantastic views from a hilltop in Wales UK. I don't think it helped that the bike had fallen into a rut so it was below horizontal!
Great video Nathan with proper real world observations on both bikes strengths and weaknesses. I own a Euro 4 Himalayan (2020) and have had none of the relay issues of the later bikes. I also own a GSA, the 2 bikes are chalk and cheese but I have to admit I head for the Himi more than ever now. No one factor stands out for me it just works as a complete package. Can't speak for the CRF as I've never ridden one but I would be happy to take one on. Couple of mates own CRF's (mainly for trails) and swear by them. Always find it interesting Itchy Boots went from a HImi to the CRF, possibly because of the weight difference and the reliability (plus bigger dealer network?) One last point; I have a very good local RE dealer which does help with any (thankfully) rare problems. Cheers Richard
Cheers Richard. Yes it does seem the Euro 4 bikes were a little bit more robust in the relay department. I see it as just something of a blip that was just handled a bit badly rather than a major failing. As I replied to someone else, I didn't have a single problem with any of the 350 or 650 engined bikes I ran last year. I always saw the Himalayan as the bridging bike between RE of old and RE of new, and accept it was never going to be perfect. It was just a big leap forward from the Bullet. For Itchy Boots I reckon the CRF probably is a better choice, and let's be honest, it is more of a younger persons bike and for the type of riding she's now doing more suitable than the Himalayan. I'm just amazed RE didn't do more to keep her on one of their bikes, but from everything I can gather Noraly is very independently minded in her bike buying and pays her own way with them. So probably couldn't have been 'bought' to ride a bike she didn't want to ride.
They are both fine bikes. For a couple thousand more, go with the Honda, but if you NEED a bike NOW, and are on a budget the RE is perfectly acceptable.✌🏽
There are several companies that make lightweight motorcycle lifting devices that break down into small bags. They are all based on a clip together pole with a ratchet and strap at the top.
Hey Nathan. This is brilliant, proper advice, thanks. Did you see the Voge 300 Rally? Would love to hear your thoughts about it. Am thinking about either that or a Himalayan for trail riding.
Thanks Simon. Yes indeed, quite keen to try the Voge. I was doing some testing with Motorcycle News the other week on these small adventure bikes and we were dead keen to include the 300 Rally but it's been delayed until mid may but still no sign of it. At the price point (£3799) it looks to offer great value and I certainly don't think it'll be £3000 worse than a CRF300 Rally at £6500. It's also good that MotoGB (formally RE importers) have taken on Voge, which should mean they get much more support and distribution than the brand previously had. So yes, very keen to try one and it could kneecap both the Himalayan and CRF if it proves to be any good.
@@nathanthepostman There's a big distributor here in France. They sell at over 1500€ cheaper than the CRF. And that includes crashbars, handguards and a USB port. Loncin makes the engine (BMW, KTM and Piaggio). I think the days of crappy Chinese bikes are over. If it's any good, I'm going to bag one before they start hiking up the prices!
Hi Nathan, I was really hot for a Voge 300 Rally, until I rode one today : "Comments after Essais/Test ride of Voge 300 Rally: Front brake pretty-much non existent, back brake good; Taller than I remembered; VERY short gearing, leading to 60 kph at 6000 rpm in 6th gear; Vibey, like riding a 125cc; Good handling:cornering on-road; didn’t test off-road;" Not for me.
Just stumbled upon your comaparison. Like it lots. Have a few questions for you though. Will be a novice rider sometime coming fall. Currently ride a can-Am Ryker rally modified for touring (EU). Will get my license sometime coming fall and want a bike for a RTW trip. Been looking at the Himalayan, Honda CRF 300Rally and the CB500X modified with Rally Raid gear. I really love the looks on the Himalayan and know it can be improved a little performance wise with Powertronic ecu, fuel X pro autotune and Hitchcocks camshaft/ open air plate as well as a 16T sprocket at the front to make it nicer to cruise on (lower rpm's) . The Honda 300 just like you said needs racks so that brings the weight closer to the Himmi and CB500. I do like riding on small lanes and would love to go a bit off road (also OZ outback or Africa). Would love to hear your thoughts on which bike to go for and why. Currently i am leaning towards thre Himmi for the 50/50 on/ off raod behaviour. But also am anxiously awaiting the Himmi 450 that is supposed to come out this year for just that tad more power.
Interesting connundrum RW. No brainer for me, if I was planning another RTW trip I'd go on the Himalayan. I just really like it as a travel bike, especially the practicality of that centre stand and front racks for mounting luggage at the front. I also think it's a nice relaxing bike for long distances. The CB500X would be faster and more reliable but having owned one I just didn't enjoy it as a motorcycle. A bit too bland, although logically the best of the three. Just not for me. The CRF would also do it, but I think with all the road work the Himalayan would just do it more nicely. So for me, definitely the Himalayan, but as others have responded, they'd definitely take the CRF or a'nother. You really need to cock a leg over them all and then just go with whichever floats your boat the most. Not right or wrong decision here. Each bike would just shape your trip slightly differently that's all.
@@nathanthepostman Thanks for sharing your thoughts on them. Even though I have not tried any out I like the Himmi looks best. Speed I do not care too much about - I will get there when I get there. Yep, sensibly the 500 indeed makes sense but does not bring as much of a smile on my face as the Himmalayan or 300. Guess it is a good thing I do not have to make a decision right now but have some more reading up on time. Though there is one line that keeps coming back to "choose the bike that makes you smile (the most)". For now that is the Himmi but you are right first need to ride all 3.
Good info, I'd also suggest that the Beta Alp 200 is a cracking trail bike too, although less road capable than both the others, the Alp 4.0 however, I'd have that over either the Himy or CRF.
A very balanced honest chat. I rode a Himalayan and really wasn’t a fan so I must be missing something. Strangely I rode a Scram which is basically the same bike and liked that. I prefer the look of the CRF but not ridden one. I want a light bike which will handle road and trail (as a novice) so is there anything else ?
Bought a 21 himi bsa4(USA). Just for the fact that i coudnt find a crf300. 2 years and its been a solid bike so far. You just need to know how to turn wrenches(for maintenance) if you own one. My only complaint is its a little slow, but no big deal. Been riding since 1996 if it helps.its a fun bike to own.
Reliability Reliability Reliability…thats all it matters on these Adventure motorcycle - yes, these two are really made for long range rally + adventure. Go with Honda. Cannot go wrong.
Enjoyed that Nathan! For all rounder work (city commute, weekend fun on road and trail and international travel moto camping) how would you rank the Honda 300 rally, 300L, Himalayan, Scram? 1 being first choice. Cheers in advance!
Definitely the Himalayan for that one. I wouldn't want to commute on the CRF (although you could) and the Scram is a nice bike but the same price as the Himalayan with a lot less practicality for your money. Himalayan all the way.
I wanted to buy a new Himalayan - even some great prices around here on left over 2o22 models. The thing that stops me is the fact that I have a nicely upgraded 2018 CRF250 Rally. It is really hard to justify the purchase of the Himalayan when the Honda Rally is so capable. For me they are just too close together in how I would use them. I have the Rally and a CT125 Trail Cub what I really need for my next purchase is a slightly faster mile muncher with just a little gravel road competency.
Totally understandable logic that Jay. If you're happy with the CRF it's hard to justify paying the money for the Himalayan. It's that step up to something else where you find the gap in the market isn't it. I find something like a KTM 690 a bit too much for pottering around on, the CB500X is good on the road but a bit hard work on the trails. I guess one option is the KTM 390 Adventure as I find that tours on the road pretty well and will easily do gravel track. Not much else out there though is there!
@@nathanthepostman Your unfortunately too right - big gap! I’ve been struggling for 6 months or more deciding what to buy. Looking for that bike I can use for the next ten years. That’s how long I had my F800gs. I have a friend with a 390 Adventure so I have ridden it a bit. The 390 vibrates just a bit more than I’d like that’s one of the reasons I finally let the F800gs go. I’ve spent a fair amount of time on the CB500x also and I always come away a little underwhelmed. Honestly I’d buy a old R80gs if they hadn’t gotten so expensive.
Hello. Good luck! I'm torn between the CRF300L, the Hymalayn, and the Yamaha Wr250r. All of them are close to my heart, but Himalayn.. very heavy and does not smell of reliability like crf300l or WR250r. What do you think about the Wr250r for it to be connected to this comparison? My desire is to ride more off-road and far.
Hi Nathan hope you’re well great video. Iv got a Himalayan really like it just have some bigger road trips planned involving long motorway journeys Stoke on Trent up to Scotland is that asking a bit much of the engine it’s up near the red line can this engine take it or am I going to kill it,I do try to stick to smaller back roads but sometimes when I want a day trip to the lakes etc I need to take the motorway to get there and back in a day. I changed the front sprocket that helped lower rpm slightly at top end. Cheers Will
Hi Will. Yeah absolutely no problems at all. Been up and around Scotland half a dozen times on the Himalayan, and took others on theirs too. I've done the 700 mile slog down from JOG to home in Devon a few times as well. They'll sit at 70 all day long, drink a bit more fuel bur don't seem detrimental to the engine at all. You'll be right.
I wish folk would stop worrying about Indian build quality, I have recently posted a video about the excellent build quality of my Royal Enfield Classic 350. Admittedly it's a totally different bike from the Himalayan, but the simple and sturdy ethos is shared by both bikes. The new J platform of the Classic and Meteor 350's is a lot newer than that of the Himalayan and there is a definite improvement in overall quality. I'm really looking forward to the new Himalayan 450 with the liquid cooled engine being released. If Royal Enfield can combine the ruggedness of the Himalayan with the quality of the 350's then it'll be an excellent bike.
Yes indeed the new 350 bikes and the 650s are all good solid bikes. I ran all of them on fleet last year and didn't have a problem with any of them. I certainly wouldn't say there was anything wrong with Indian manufacture at all. But the Himalayan has suffered some silly niggles which have put some people off the bike. The next one will be great, no doubt, but there's no point pretending the current one might give you an occasional issue.
I did think about waiting until the 450 comes out and trading my old 2018 Him in for it,,but have decided to scrap that idea and invest in the bike I have,, I,m getting a 465cc rebore ,,head bearings,and suspension upgrade(yss),, I just like the Him the way it is ,,and nevered enjoy the DR450 so why should I like the new Him 450,,, but each to there own...
I totally agree that the CRF is designed as a trail bike but isn't the Himalayan designed as primary transport for a family of 4 on atrocious (to nonexistent) roads. Japan design toy, India design tool.
I had steak pie last night. Tesco finest. I wish I'd gone for the cheaper home brand as it's tastier. Prefer pie to fish and chips though. Grew up on pie and pea suppers.
Problem I had with the CRF is the fuelling at low revs. Made it hard to manage the slow technical riding…I really didn’t like it. For me this is the most important thing in the feel of a bike ridden slowly on British trails.
Was that the 250 or the 300 Tim? I've personally not found the fuelling to be too bad on the Honda but do think the Himalayan is much cleaner off the bottom and easier to feel what the engine's doing, especially when climbing.
The Himalayan might weigh more than the Honda, but with proper technique, it is not hard to get up. Most inexperienced riders will lift the bike while facing it. That makes it much harder. Face away from the bike. There are TH-cam videos on this subject.
Great answers, very down to earth and realistic. Regarding reliability of the Himalayan: I wonder if it differs between markets. In Itchy Boot's first season she had her Indian-market Himalayan overhauled after not very many kilometres and it was shocking how many components were pretty much trashed. If you're doing significant travelling, having a bike full of 10,000km components isn't really good enough.
Yeah there's always rumour that the western markets get a different assembly line than the bikes for the Indian market. How true that is I don't know. I definitely think they've made a lot of subtle improvements over the years.
There is an alternative for the old rider is the new CRF LS it’s lower that’s what I did I live in Australia I like to just plod along and take in the views I’m 72 and a short rider iv got a rack holds my tent and bits and pieces I don’t do free ways it easier for me to pick up it’s still a 300 I some times I go with my mate for safety we are old but we take every precaution we can we still enjoy a week end away on the bikes ,the days for big bikes are gone for us ,if you watch Adventure Australia that’s the kind of thing we do
I do have a question that you maybe able to answer. I have a Euro 5 Himalayan that I love and use as my commute to work through single track B roads to work near Pendle Hill. Over the last snow I had to abandon my bike in a local village and walk into work due to the heavy snow fall over ice. When i came back to my bike later that day I found the gear lever pushed in (I did lever the lever a little back out), but since then at lower than 3.5k revs and with load up hill (commonly), after changing gear I am hearing a rhythmic clicking sound (like the side stand coming up fast, but it is not that I have checked) even spaced apart for a second or two. I have taken it in twice to the dealer ship and they could not find any fault to their knowledge, but it is still happening. I did find a broken bolt on the under pan protector and a couple of loose bolts onthe panier rack. Would you have any advice?
That's an interesting one Richard, especially if two dealers have had a look at it and said there's no fault. Does it sound like something loose on the chassis or something inside the engine?
Hi Peter. I guess to be honest the only real way to lose the anxiety of getting a puncture is knowing that you have the tools and technique necessary to change the tube when/if it does happen. I tend though to often just ride with a can of instant tyre weld which I've found effective in about 9 out of 10 occasions. It's a quick roadside repair but obviously won't help if you have a rip in the tyre etc. Slime inside the tube as a preventive is also an option, and I've completely forgot the weblink but there's a quick DIY fix to creating your own tubeless solution on a spoked rim which could be worth doing for a bit of peace of mind. Hope that helps.
@@nathanthepostman Thank you Nathan. Although I knew about Slime I didn't know about instant tyre weld. I've contacted a couple of firms who can seal the rim. One would charge about £600 plus cost of tubeless tyres (CooperB can do a rebuild of the Enfield wheels but with the replacement tubeless tyres this would be about £1200 and take up to six weeks - I don't know why so long). Peter M
I’ve seen a few DIY YT videos that are fairly inexpensive. I think Nathan is recommending that solution. Some sell a kit and some use tape and sealant. I can’t remember what they use. Good luck.
I dont know the technical things but see and follow Itchy boots channel and see the capabilities and the limitations ( If any) of Honda CRF300 Rally. It looks faster on the road too compared to Himalayan.
I'm on the market for a second bike. I own an RR. Whilst I love it. It's hardly suitable for those single track b roads with moss growing out of the middle. I'm not overly bothered about going off road. Would either bike be suitable do you think?
Hi Philip. Sorry for late reply. Yes i think either of these bikes would be fine for that type of riding. Personally I think the Himalayan is a nicer place to be on the back roads - grass down the middle etc - and the CRF is that bit more suited to proper green lanes. But either will do.
You will probs heard this before my 2019 himalayan suffered zero on relays etc...even on origanal battery...but mates 2021 model did and most probs where the awfull white grease on relays hence no connection ...my classic 350 i cleaned grease off ...but regards vid good thinking....
Yeah I never had relay issues with the Euro 4 bikes either. Not sure what went wrong really. I'm on the MUTT owners forum as well and they seem to have poor relays as well. Maybe it was a bad batch filtering through some of the manufacturers, plus that tonne of grease they use. Once I'd fitted the aftermarket relays I haven't had a problem since. Tell a lie, I had one go having come through a ford. Thankfully was carrying a spare although I believe you can just pop the indicator relay in.
Disapointing progress with the Himalayan and other Adv bikes, heavier than my 36 year old Transalp and with half the horsepower. 40kg more than the CRF is just a non-starter, watch Itchy Boots and her CRF ride from South America to Alaska. The lesson from that is that you pick the bike for the worst and challenging stretches and not the easy tar ride.
Good review. Depends on the use like you Say. I personally own a Himalayan. By the way here in France we have now Access to the VOGE 300 RALLY. Looking forward to try one. Cheers.
Yeah unfortunately it looks like Voge has quietly retired or been side lined from the UK market so not likely to get that 300. A shame as it definitely looks to have potential.
@@iangriffiths9930 I asked the guys at Lexmoto (the importer) where Voge was on their stand at NEC and they were very non-committal about Voge still being available in 2023. Hopefully so given the 500s are a good bike. But that 300 will have to be cheap and decent to compete. And they just need some good dealers to get behind them.
@@iangriffiths9930 Interesting. Hadn't spotted that. So they've got a new importer, hence why Lexmoto were a bit coy at the show. Could be a good move that as MotoGB have the dealers to do a much better job with the Voge brand than Lexmoto. And the price seems very competitive. Cheers for the heads up.
15:46 My 2020 Himalayan user manual specifies 10,000km (~6,000 miles) service interval for oil and filter etc. Not sure what Nathhan mean's when he says 3,000 miles
It is every 6000 for oil and filter but it's every 3000 for a valve inspection when most dealers I've found will do an oil and filter as well. I don't personally think the 3000 mile valve check is necessary but it is in the service manual so technically necessary for the warranty.
Any thoughts on the Versys 300X? I keep looking at them, I know it lacks a inch or so of travel from the Himalayan/KTM 390 adv, but 39hp, 175kg, bulletproof proven reliability & one of the big 4 with global parts availability to me could make it the ideal bike for travel.
Yeah I quite liked the Versys when I rode one when they first came out. They take a bit of getting used to as they have zero torque, are really low geared and have a terrible seat. To me they're a bit like an upright 90s two stroke 125. All or nothing. But definitely reliable, and ok on the trails, certainly up to KTM 390 Adventure conditions, and swift on the road. I'd say the KTM is it's natural rival. I do keep my eye out for a good value second hand one but prices seem strong for them. Shame they never committed to the 400 Versys. That could have been very good with a bit more mid range.
Bottom end torque, or rather the lack of it, from most accounts. Fancied one myself, till i tried to swing a leg over. The Suzuki 250V strom that was next to it actually felt better comfort wise.
@@nathanthepostmanahah, my last proper dirt bike was actually a ‘02 DT125 I had about 8-10 years ago, if the delivery is comparable to that then that actually adds to the temptation. :D I imagine the seat is easily fixed in the aftermarket. Yeah I’ve been keeping an eye out for them, £4k seems to be the very minimum, and I know a lot of stuff came as an option on them (centre stand, engine guards, bash plate etc)
I owned a 300x and it was too vibey, too tall and not enough power. Bought a 2020 vstrom 650 xt too top heavy. Now have the 2021 Himi fixed the factory flaws and loving it even if it's not fast, but it takes me to the places want to go on dime. It's a commuter, medium off roader at a pace and just great to ride. BTW using the handlebar method is the easiest way I pick it up.
All ill say is Itchy boots used both . Lighter bikes always easier amd better off road. Hence MX bikes weigh zip. Buy on the road they are not that great
My wife's bike is just 20kg heavier then mine, it feels like tons in every slow hairpin (i'm quite fit for my age). 40kgs 'd b some world in zero grip situations.
Good question. I've been riding the CCM GP450 a bit more recently. That bikes shows how it should be done. More power and better suspension than both, same weight as the Honda. More capable than both on the trails. Stronger than both on the road. But would you trust it on a long trip? Will head out on the KTM 390 Adv next week for comparison. But you could also throw in a CB500X, Tenere 600 maybe?
@@nathanthepostman I changed my Himalayan for an '03 XT600 - lighter, more HP, more capable all round but they don't make them any more. I also had disappointing electrical issues with the Himi, cutting out for no reason. Not the fuel relay, it would just stall and not restart for a few minutes. No problems with the XT - nothing to go wrong! He said...jinxing it!
The Himalayan has a rugged charm that the CRF hasn't. The CT for the outback is a good idea. I don't ride off-road, so what do I know? I quite fancy a HNTR350 but then I take my 390 Duke for a ride, and it impresses, so if I was an off-road man, I'd probably get a 390 Adventure.
I own a Himalayan and to be honest, it does nothing good. It lacks power, acceleration and handling, and is way too heavy for a bike with only 25 hp. I've never ridden a CRF, but I'm sure with it's lighter weight and good geometry it would tick several boxes foe anyone wanting to enjoy riding their bike.
Hey Observer. I just happened to read this comment again and realised I completely misread it first time. I read it as you meaning me buying 2 himalayans and still worrying, not the guy in the email. My apologies for that.
Great review, spot on. I've had a Himilayan for 4 years and its a great bike. Its my favorite go to bike for pure fun and does everything pretty damn good. I have a 2 stroke single track ktm, a street bike, and a cruiser .....however if could only keep one bike it would be the himilayan.
How many KM you done so far.. ?
*Crap Game* 🎉
100% considered, honest, experienced advice
0% bullsh#t
Another great post Nathan 👍
I've been riding since 1972 and I think you gave really solid advice here. It was well thought out, substantiated, and even handed. Great job! Subscribing now...
Thanks Peter.
I'm 60, brought a Pan Am in March 2023, have dropped it 4 times, has not been a problem yet, and it is 260kg. Did some enduro and motocross 30 years ago, all good in my mind :)
Good video, great advice. I have owned both bikes and agree with everything you say. If you can only own one bike to do everything then I’d always choose the Himalayan. If you have a road bike and you are looking for a second bike for trails then the CRF.
That's a great summation Tony and would totally agree.
I would Echo everything that has been said here. I recently rode from here in the Midlands down to the French and Italian Alps with a friend in order to do a lot of off-roading on principally the TET. I rode a Himalayan and my friend rode a CRF250Rally. Both bikes were very good but the trails we're never too difficult for the Himalayan and the Honda CRF rally didn't particularly have an edge. However, given that we inevitably had to do a lot of road work, the Himalayan was head and shoulders better than the CRF in terms of comfort, handling and simply being more manageable. The 15 litre tank helped. We had no mechanical issues with either bike but I take the point about the relays on the Himalayan. Another great video, Nathan. Cheers.
I owned a 2019 Himalayan for 6000 plus miles and my only complaint is the steel wheels. Never felt the need for suspension upgrades. Only sold it because the supply chain issues meant someone wanted it more than I wanted to keep it. I then bought a new KLX300SM that I have ridden everywhere I rode the Himalayan with the exception of mud. A tire change would solve that if I really wanted to ride muddy trails.
I considered the 300 rally, but never found one for sale, and I knew I would have spent additional money fixing its shortcomings as delivered.
Very interesting piece Nathan. I have owned a 2020 Himalayan and now own a 2019 CRF250 Rally. I loved the whole idea of the Himalayan but was severely let down by the appalling build quality. It had to go. I then found a very reasonably priced CRF250 and snapped it up. What a difference. great build quality. great trail capability and reasonable road performance. I know that trying both machines out by owning them isnt something everyone can afford but Royal Enfield kind of forced my hand with their poorly made bike and awful after sales service. The Himalayan promises much but I will never buy another Royal Enfield. The Honda is a whole different story. Its great on the trail, Im not an off road god, just a green laner. Road performance is ok but the little motor has to work pretty hard. As an older rider, I feel confident to ride alone safe in the knowledge that I can pick the CRF up in the event of a drop. The Himmy is heavy, there is no getting away from that.I suppose I would be very happy if Honda made a Himalayan type bike. The bottom line here is that in my humble opinion the Honda CRF 250 or 300 is the better bike and the better choice.
Is it possible you came in with incorrect expectations? The RE is a good two thousand dollars less than comparable engine adventure bikes. Or more is it not? So if you had proper expectations you'd be singing it's praises.
Informative vid Nathan,, I,v had my Him 4 yrs,and have never enjoyed taking it off road. I really dislike my feet being so far apart...But the other week I just fancied abit of offroad,,, It was wet and muddy and my tyres where Met Tourance(not the best) I rode next to a river ,cut a long story short down she went ,,and being 66 I nearly *hit myself ,, but with a bit of giggling and the fact its got givi bars helped me get it upright..Of course I was covered in mud,,, I think the Honda is a dual/sport off road bike,,, its not a travel bike,,the him you can carry as much as you like and it just shrugs it off ,,it,s tough,,its a tough bike ,I would say more tough then a CRF.. and regarding servicing ,aslong as you keep the revs below 5000 ,the tappets hardy need touching..My bike is in the process of having a rebore and head bearings done at cooperb,,so I have faith... cheers
Thanks Nathan. Another interesting and informative discussion.
Over the past few years I’ve been riding a few of the lightweight adventure bikes and have retained the Himalayan, the CRF300 and my trusty 310 GS. (The CCM GP450 has gone to pastures new).
One thing that perhaps isn’t covered in this video is the need for upgrades. My CRF and 310GS have both had Rally Raid upgrades to make them great rides, the Himalayan on the other hand, hasn’t required much at all to make it a fun adventure bike and as bog-standard it is fair to say that Himalayan is a great all rounder.
Which do I prefer ?
Well TBH it’s whichever I am riding at the time … they all have their good and not so good points but they are all amazing bikes to ride.
If I was heading out around the world instead of spending a few months just now escaping the UK winter and riding around New Zealand, I think it would be the Honda for peace of mind …. although I have no evidence to suggest that the 310 or Himalayan wouldn’t be just as good 👍
Yeah I realised I missed out the possible need for suspension mods to CRF vs Himalayan that works straight out of the crate. Glad you mentioned it in the comments as it is important.
Great summary, well thought out. RE: weight - maybe the bottom line is you need to be able to pick a bike up before you choose it for solo trail use. if you cant, maybe you`re not fit/experienced enough for SOLO trail riding, it can be physically demanding. (you wouldn`t go hillwalking if you knew you weren`t up to it). If you struggle climbing the hill, you just walk back down. If you get in trouble solo on a trail bike miles from help, it could become serious.
Fully agree with the comment about "pace", your mates shouldn't make you feel like you're holding them up either on or off road.
Good video. Great advice. Several years ago I was trying to sell a Suzuki SV650. Someone contacted me with some interest. He said he really wanted a Ducati Monster but might settle for the SV650 based on price. I told him that he needed to buy the bike that excited and motivated him to ride. I didn't sell him the SV650.
I agree completely, we have two Himalayans and the Euro 5 has suffered with the relay problem.
Actually, if your body isn't broken (and I know about this being 62 with a few bone & joint problems) then the better thing to do is to get into some phys-ed. Maybe a rowing machine, some cardio and weights. Benefits everything, including one's ability to pick up the bike. Don't give up, we could get at least another decade doing this :-)
Yeah totally agree with you Liam. I've been trying to get fitter over winter and the difference its made in terms of comfort on the bike and confidence on the trails has been well worth it so far. You're definitely right to mention it. Cheers
Agreed! 63 and rowing twice a week during the week and vintage trials riding at the weekend! BSA Bantam 175.
Agree Liam..After watching Drock and Jen(Precipice of Grind) Jen suggested Squats, which I've started including bicycle riding to get the legs ready. Any kind of physical activity can help with lifting the bike.
( Himalayan delivery 2 /15/2023 Eurosport Vegas.)( 62 and this is part of my retirement plan)
Spot on Liam I’m 62 and a decent rowing machine is awesome for upper and lower body with a bit of cardio too.
I suggest joining a gym I’m 61 and go 5 times a week,the hardest part is getting there in the first place(I choose a gym that’s on my way home from work),once you’re there it’s easy to do your workout.
Nathan, your experience on so many of these machines and honest view of all aspects of riding really helped me decode on my next bike....I'm 65 and I've done the Nortons BSA's Suzuki 900 Honda cbr 600 now owning a 43 year old BMW 800....easy plod from a single thumper is going to be great....when I decided to buy another bike I had the idea of 500 single (idea based on a bsa 500/ccm 500 and the Himalayan hits the mark....there's a lit if them out there and that says everything about it....
Great posts as always..thank you....
When I've got mine I'm definitely heading over to Europe
Cheers John
It's not for everyone, but personally I enjoy getting hands-on with my Himalayan, the short service intervals mean I can spend some time getting to know the workings of it..also I totally agree, you sit in the Himmy and on the Honda....still, a nice choice to have...
I purchased the 300 Rally because I wanted a larger tank, windshield/fairing and LED head lights. Adding all this aftermarket vs getting it installed from Honda was an easy decision for me. I since added YSS suspension, tires, seat concepts, and more +++ for a custom fit. No regrets.
Hi Nathan, my wife and I both had Himalayans and had steering head bearing issues and I found that the although the lower bearing was rusty ( knackered ) it was the seals that caused the problem as they did not contact the head tube and seal, so I re-shaped the seal cup and fixed the problem, no more problems. You probably already know this, if so please ignore.
Great work keep it up.
That's a great tip. I'd never done or tried that. Will do next time (hoping there won't be a next time!)
You have a video of the fix, what year model?
Great summary. Despite having done some off road in the past on dedicated bikes, I was blown away at how easy the Hamalayan was to ride off-road. I found the CRF pretty horrible on the road..... but reliability is a big factor for me so that would push me towards a Jap bike.
What good is anything if it's not reliable?
I've ridden the Himalayan and I own the Kawasaki klx 300. Conclusion: the Himalayan is better for the open road long stretches. The dual sport 300 cc honda/kawi are terrific around town commuting, twisties. The light weight and strong power to weight ratio make for good acceleration for what it is.
Of course the Kawasaki has excellent stock suspension.
If you want electronics and service intervals it’s Honda, if you want self service and a work horse it’s Himalayan imo. Himalayan has a kind of charm that no other bikes have even in RE lineup. It has been to actual Himalayas so it’s not a poser and if you are a decent rider you can always do awesome things with both machines
I have a 22 Himalayan and love it. Its a brilliant bike for the value. For now its my commuter but will be taking it longer multi day back road trips. Great video and very honest.
What a great comparison video “very well done” I’m on a Euro 4 Himmi and bought on purpose to avoid some the later issues it’s coming up to 7k and iv just stripped down the head bearings cleaned and regressed cos the steering was getting stiff, I did the cam on it just after I bought just really to give a little more legs to over take, I live in Whiltshire & I’m off to Scotland 🏴 to do the NC500 again 😊 did it in 2018 on a GSA so this will be a slightly different experience I’m doing A roads all the way up & down so will probably see & enjoy more scenery leaving 11th - 19th May
Love the Himmi iv done 6k in the last year and if I put that against the GSA 2k in a year it says it all really, But something else some people might not now is get other and join your local Royal Enfield branch because along with the bike it’s been the fellowship of the people I ride with that make it Sooo much more fun… Regards Martyn 🏍💨
Thanks Nathan I have ordered a CRF300 Rally and when it comes I plan to keep my Himalayan for a while before selling it as I do like it for all the reasons you have said. It is a very confidence inspiring bike. Just a couple of comments not related to the bikes but to beginner riders I have learnt to stand up when riding anything tricky off-road which takes a little while to train your brain to do. I have been doing some introductory Trials riding which has improved my confidence and ability I would highly recommend this get a cheap old Trials bike and get a few lessons. Also I take my time and ride fairly slowly at my own pace exactly what Nathan said. I will let your know what I think of the CRF when I get it in about 6 months.
Thanks Nathan for the awesome explanation of the two bikes
Cheers Ivan. Look forward to hearing how you get on with the CRF. Two good bikes you've got there!
I took my 2019 Himalayan from SE Spain up to SE France, then through the Pyrenees, across N Spain, down across the Picos, down Portugal, north to south (away from the coast), then zigzagged across Spain, west to home back in the south east. 5,000 miles, not one issue on the trip.
Only issue I have is that the battery discharges over the course of a week or so, even with the Hitchcock loom fitted. Simply to disconnect the battery if I am not going to use it for a week or so. Great bike, ideal for where I live with many tracks that start just 25 metres from my front gate.
There's a fix for that too, what an amazing trip...
Great comparison... surely the next question is Himilayan versus Voge 300 Rally? Do the same points regarding the Honda translate to the Voge? Keep up the great videos!
Your usual solid chat, enjoyed that! Have ridden Himalayan on road/trail for a day & now have crf250 rally after chatting with you the other year & really happy with my choice. Having ridden both a couple of opinions that might be useful, on the road the 6th gear does help the crf & the brakes far more confident at speed than the RE, & i think you've said maintaining road momentum on these bikes is as much about the rider as it is machine power. The honda will do good speed all day, but you have to tune into giving it revs. I've upgraded my clutch, they're known to be weak with the judder spring and a shropshire hill & my skill level 🤣 gave it a real hammering...I prefer the slightly heavier, non-judder spring set up.
With a himalayan i think you'd be less troubled about glue&tape on indicators after the inevitable forray into a bank 😉
If looking at the Honda, for UK & maybe european distances i was suprised at the nearly 90mpg, so even for some travel an L is cheaper, will give enough range for our conditions, is lighter & will drop better. You could add a screen/ bigger tank if felt neceesary for your riding later.🏍🤘
Hey man, amazing video thanks a lot, super insightful.
I am going on a very long trip through the silk road, crossing China, Mongolia, Khazakstan, Kyrgistan, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Iran, Turkey and then Europe. So a fair bit of paved roads, but also a lot of very tricky terrain, snow, river crossings with knee deep water, mud, sand, etc.
I have very limited experience (few days offroad on CRF 250, 1 year on road on a Z350). Will be on my own. I am in no rush at all, I don't mind going slower on the highway portions, I will not try to race or anything. I was gonna do this trip on a bycicle, I see the "upgrade" to the motorcycle as a way to go a bit faster, but not to do any performance or crazy stuff.
CRF 300 sounds like the perfect choice based on what I've heard and your video. BUUUUT:
I am 100kg / 6"2 and I will have quite some gear (camping gear + 10kg of Camera gear + clothes + water + spare gas/oil) , total will likely be 30-40kg. And I'm a bit worried with the weight limit of the CRF 300 (even after upgrading suspensions, chassis might still fail). What do you think? Would this make the Himalayan (or something else like a CB500) a better option?
Any tips would be super helpful :)
Thanks!
I've never heard any problems about... the chassis failing? A friend of mine did a couple of trips around Europe on a stock CRF250L with his girlfriend (so total weight around 170kg?), no problems at all.
probably waaaay too late but I wouldn't even consider the Honda - based on your experience. I'd also wonder just how you think the 300 is physically going to carry that - and how you're going to re-charge 10kg of camera gear (before it get's nicked that is) but good luck!
The height of the CRF gave me vertigo in the store! (And I'm 6'2") I did go with a Himmy.
Your very thorough answers to the questions posed to you were enlightening. I have therefore subscribed to the channel.
I like the look and style of the Himalayan, but I would take the crf300 Rally for the reliability and service intervals
I like your advice... Keep up the great work.
I’m 62. My wife and I ride a pair of Trail 125s to get about.
We can get into trouble but hopefully not too much trouble. Works capably off pavement but you’re automatically dissuaded from going nuts
Agree, I’ve had both (& I’m 64), we’ll a 250 anyway. By the way I’m a TRF member & rarely keep up with them nutters but you can always get a Beta or KTM if you find you like the hard core off road😉.
Excellent analysis. Thank you. I've got the Himalayan and (at 67) I find difficult (correction impossible!) to pick up on my own so I'm looking for a gadget to help with that.
I have a himmy at 68 yrs old, its technique thats all. use your legs more than your back, there are videos on it
@@stevec-b6214 thanks for that Steve. I did try the techniques that I'd seen in videos e.g. facing forwards and backwards but to no avail, I had to call for help. The up side was that it was a beautiful day with fantastic views from a hilltop in Wales UK. I don't think it helped that the bike had fallen into a rut so it was below horizontal!
Thanks for all, exhaustive comparisons.
Great video Nathan with proper real world observations on both bikes strengths and weaknesses.
I own a Euro 4 Himalayan (2020) and have had none of the relay issues of the later bikes. I also own a GSA, the 2 bikes are chalk and cheese but I have to admit I head for the Himi more than ever now. No one factor stands out for me it just works as a complete package.
Can't speak for the CRF as I've never ridden one but I would be happy to take one on. Couple of mates own CRF's (mainly for trails) and swear by them.
Always find it interesting Itchy Boots went from a HImi to the CRF, possibly because of the weight difference and the reliability (plus bigger dealer network?)
One last point; I have a very good local RE dealer which does help with any (thankfully) rare problems.
Cheers
Richard
Cheers Richard. Yes it does seem the Euro 4 bikes were a little bit more robust in the relay department. I see it as just something of a blip that was just handled a bit badly rather than a major failing. As I replied to someone else, I didn't have a single problem with any of the 350 or 650 engined bikes I ran last year. I always saw the Himalayan as the bridging bike between RE of old and RE of new, and accept it was never going to be perfect. It was just a big leap forward from the Bullet. For Itchy Boots I reckon the CRF probably is a better choice, and let's be honest, it is more of a younger persons bike and for the type of riding she's now doing more suitable than the Himalayan. I'm just amazed RE didn't do more to keep her on one of their bikes, but from everything I can gather Noraly is very independently minded in her bike buying and pays her own way with them. So probably couldn't have been 'bought' to ride a bike she didn't want to ride.
They are both fine bikes. For a couple thousand more, go with the Honda, but if you NEED a bike NOW, and are on a budget the RE is perfectly acceptable.✌🏽
There are several companies that make lightweight motorcycle lifting devices that break down into small bags. They are all based on a clip together pole with a ratchet and strap at the top.
Hey Nathan. This is brilliant, proper advice, thanks. Did you see the Voge 300 Rally? Would love to hear your thoughts about it. Am thinking about either that or a Himalayan for trail riding.
Thanks Simon. Yes indeed, quite keen to try the Voge. I was doing some testing with Motorcycle News the other week on these small adventure bikes and we were dead keen to include the 300 Rally but it's been delayed until mid may but still no sign of it. At the price point (£3799) it looks to offer great value and I certainly don't think it'll be £3000 worse than a CRF300 Rally at £6500. It's also good that MotoGB (formally RE importers) have taken on Voge, which should mean they get much more support and distribution than the brand previously had. So yes, very keen to try one and it could kneecap both the Himalayan and CRF if it proves to be any good.
@@nathanthepostman There's a big distributor here in France. They sell at over 1500€ cheaper than the CRF. And that includes crashbars, handguards and a USB port. Loncin makes the engine (BMW, KTM and Piaggio). I think the days of crappy Chinese bikes are over. If it's any good, I'm going to bag one before they start hiking up the prices!
Hi Nathan, I was really hot for a Voge 300 Rally, until I rode one today :
"Comments after Essais/Test ride of Voge 300 Rally:
Front brake pretty-much non existent, back brake good;
Taller than I remembered;
VERY short gearing, leading to 60 kph at 6000 rpm in 6th gear;
Vibey, like riding a 125cc;
Good handling:cornering on-road; didn’t test off-road;"
Not for me.
Just stumbled upon your comaparison. Like it lots. Have a few questions for you though. Will be a novice rider sometime coming fall. Currently ride a can-Am Ryker rally modified for touring (EU). Will get my license sometime coming fall and want a bike for a RTW trip. Been looking at the Himalayan, Honda CRF 300Rally and the CB500X modified with Rally Raid gear. I really love the looks on the Himalayan and know it can be improved a little performance wise with Powertronic ecu, fuel X pro autotune and Hitchcocks camshaft/ open air plate as well as a 16T sprocket at the front to make it nicer to cruise on (lower rpm's) . The Honda 300 just like you said needs racks so that brings the weight closer to the Himmi and CB500. I do like riding on small lanes and would love to go a bit off road (also OZ outback or Africa). Would love to hear your thoughts on which bike to go for and why. Currently i am leaning towards thre Himmi for the 50/50 on/ off raod behaviour. But also am anxiously awaiting the Himmi 450 that is supposed to come out this year for just that tad more power.
Interesting connundrum RW. No brainer for me, if I was planning another RTW trip I'd go on the Himalayan. I just really like it as a travel bike, especially the practicality of that centre stand and front racks for mounting luggage at the front. I also think it's a nice relaxing bike for long distances. The CB500X would be faster and more reliable but having owned one I just didn't enjoy it as a motorcycle. A bit too bland, although logically the best of the three. Just not for me. The CRF would also do it, but I think with all the road work the Himalayan would just do it more nicely. So for me, definitely the Himalayan, but as others have responded, they'd definitely take the CRF or a'nother. You really need to cock a leg over them all and then just go with whichever floats your boat the most. Not right or wrong decision here. Each bike would just shape your trip slightly differently that's all.
@@nathanthepostman Thanks for sharing your thoughts on them. Even though I have not tried any out I like the Himmi looks best. Speed I do not care too much about - I will get there when I get there. Yep, sensibly the 500 indeed makes sense but does not bring as much of a smile on my face as the Himmalayan or 300. Guess it is a good thing I do not have to make a decision right now but have some more reading up on time. Though there is one line that keeps coming back to "choose the bike that makes you smile (the most)". For now that is the Himmi but you are right first need to ride all 3.
Great advice as usual I have both & 100% agree 👍
Good info, I'd also suggest that the Beta Alp 200 is a cracking trail bike too, although less road capable than both the others, the Alp 4.0 however, I'd have that over either the Himy or CRF.
Would be the Honda for me I think. My 650 RE had a few issues; things that should have been spotted and sorted pre delivery.
A very balanced honest chat. I rode a Himalayan and really wasn’t a fan so I must be missing something. Strangely I rode a Scram which is basically the same bike and liked that.
I prefer the look of the CRF but not ridden one. I want a light bike which will handle road and trail (as a novice) so is there anything else ?
Bought a 21 himi bsa4(USA). Just for the fact that i coudnt find a crf300. 2 years and its been a solid bike so far. You just need to know how to turn wrenches(for maintenance) if you own one. My only complaint is its a little slow, but no big deal. Been riding since 1996 if it helps.its a fun bike to own.
Horses for courses, eh.....?
Excellent unbiased opinion.
Thanks a million.
Thanks Dhruba.
Reliability Reliability Reliability…thats all it matters on these Adventure motorcycle - yes, these two are really made for long range rally + adventure. Go with Honda. Cannot go wrong.
I know it doesn’t answer your question but I would choose the Voge 300 Rally over either the Himalayan or the CRF 300.
Enjoyed that Nathan! For all rounder work (city commute, weekend fun on road and trail and international travel moto camping) how would you rank the Honda 300 rally, 300L, Himalayan, Scram? 1 being first choice. Cheers in advance!
Definitely the Himalayan for that one. I wouldn't want to commute on the CRF (although you could) and the Scram is a nice bike but the same price as the Himalayan with a lot less practicality for your money. Himalayan all the way.
@@nathanthepostman brilliant - cheers pal! That's really useful. Would you recommend bs4 over bs6 or doesn't matter?
I have a CRF300 rally... more importantly on the CRF rally to plastics are super expensive in the UK
I wanted to buy a new Himalayan - even some great prices around here on left over 2o22 models. The thing that stops me is the fact that I have a nicely upgraded 2018 CRF250 Rally. It is really hard to justify the purchase of the Himalayan when the Honda Rally is so capable. For me they are just too close together in how I would use them. I have the Rally and a CT125 Trail Cub what I really need for my next purchase is a slightly faster mile muncher with just a little gravel road competency.
Totally understandable logic that Jay. If you're happy with the CRF it's hard to justify paying the money for the Himalayan. It's that step up to something else where you find the gap in the market isn't it. I find something like a KTM 690 a bit too much for pottering around on, the CB500X is good on the road but a bit hard work on the trails. I guess one option is the KTM 390 Adventure as I find that tours on the road pretty well and will easily do gravel track. Not much else out there though is there!
@@nathanthepostman Your unfortunately too right - big gap! I’ve been struggling for 6 months or more deciding what to buy. Looking for that bike I can use for the next ten years. That’s how long I had my F800gs. I have a friend with a 390 Adventure so I have ridden it a bit. The 390 vibrates just a bit more than I’d like that’s one of the reasons I finally let the F800gs go. I’ve spent a fair amount of time on the CB500x also and I always come away a little underwhelmed. Honestly I’d buy a old R80gs if they hadn’t gotten so expensive.
I’m in the exact same situation that you’re in,with the same bike!
Hello. Good luck! I'm torn between the CRF300L, the Hymalayn, and the Yamaha Wr250r. All of them are close to my heart, but Himalayn.. very heavy and does not smell of reliability like crf300l or WR250r. What do you think about the Wr250r for it to be connected to this comparison? My desire is to ride more off-road and far.
Crocs: I have a pair myself mate - embrace them!
Hi Nathan hope you’re well great video. Iv got a Himalayan really like it just have some bigger road trips planned involving long motorway journeys Stoke on Trent up to Scotland is that asking a bit much of the engine it’s up near the red line can this engine take it or am I going to kill it,I do try to stick to smaller back roads but sometimes when I want a day trip to the lakes etc I need to take the motorway to get there and back in a day. I changed the front sprocket that helped lower rpm slightly at top end.
Cheers
Will
Hi Will. Yeah absolutely no problems at all. Been up and around Scotland half a dozen times on the Himalayan, and took others on theirs too. I've done the 700 mile slog down from JOG to home in Devon a few times as well. They'll sit at 70 all day long, drink a bit more fuel bur don't seem detrimental to the engine at all. You'll be right.
@@nathanthepostman awesome thanks Nathan, nice to hear that 👌🏻
I wish folk would stop worrying about Indian build quality, I have recently posted a video about the excellent build quality of my Royal Enfield Classic 350. Admittedly it's a totally different bike from the Himalayan, but the simple and sturdy ethos is shared by both bikes.
The new J platform of the Classic and Meteor 350's is a lot newer than that of the Himalayan and there is a definite improvement in overall quality.
I'm really looking forward to the new Himalayan 450 with the liquid cooled engine being released.
If Royal Enfield can combine the ruggedness of the Himalayan with the quality of the 350's then it'll be an excellent bike.
Yes indeed the new 350 bikes and the 650s are all good solid bikes. I ran all of them on fleet last year and didn't have a problem with any of them. I certainly wouldn't say there was anything wrong with Indian manufacture at all. But the Himalayan has suffered some silly niggles which have put some people off the bike. The next one will be great, no doubt, but there's no point pretending the current one might give you an occasional issue.
I did think about waiting until the 450 comes out and trading my old 2018 Him in for it,,but have decided to scrap that idea and invest in the bike I have,, I,m getting a 465cc rebore ,,head bearings,and suspension upgrade(yss),, I just like the Him the way it is ,,and nevered enjoy the DR450 so why should I like the new Him 450,,, but each to there own...
I actually had my himalayan fuel injector fail at 19,000 miles, I had a timing chain tensioner and fuel injector fail in the span of one week :(
Honda always comes with that premium for their brand and the reliability they cash on.
I totally agree that the CRF is designed as a trail bike but isn't the Himalayan designed as primary transport for a family of 4 on atrocious (to nonexistent) roads. Japan design toy, India design tool.
Nathan, i cant decide between steak pie n chips or fish n peas for tea. Can you help ?
I had steak pie last night. Tesco finest. I wish I'd gone for the cheaper home brand as it's tastier. Prefer pie to fish and chips though. Grew up on pie and pea suppers.
Problem I had with the CRF is the fuelling at low revs. Made it hard to manage the slow technical riding…I really didn’t like it. For me this is the most important thing in the feel of a bike ridden slowly on British trails.
Was that the 250 or the 300 Tim? I've personally not found the fuelling to be too bad on the Honda but do think the Himalayan is much cleaner off the bottom and easier to feel what the engine's doing, especially when climbing.
300l…..now got a Himmy and for me it’s way way better. Much easier to ride for me and perfect for the lanes and trails of North Yorks👍
The Himalayan might weigh more than the Honda, but with proper technique, it is not hard to get up. Most inexperienced riders will lift the bike while facing it. That makes it much harder. Face away from the bike. There are TH-cam videos on this subject.
Great answers, very down to earth and realistic.
Regarding reliability of the Himalayan: I wonder if it differs between markets. In Itchy Boot's first season she had her Indian-market Himalayan overhauled after not very many kilometres and it was shocking how many components were pretty much trashed. If you're doing significant travelling, having a bike full of 10,000km components isn't really good enough.
Yeah there's always rumour that the western markets get a different assembly line than the bikes for the Indian market. How true that is I don't know. I definitely think they've made a lot of subtle improvements over the years.
There is an alternative for the old rider is the new CRF LS it’s lower that’s what I did I live in Australia I like to just plod along and take in the views I’m 72 and a short rider iv got a rack holds my tent and bits and pieces I don’t do free ways it easier for me to pick up it’s still a 300 I some times I go with my mate for safety we are old but we take every precaution we can we still enjoy a week end away on the bikes ,the days for big bikes are gone for us ,if you watch Adventure Australia that’s the kind of thing we do
Thanks Jon Snow
Thank you, you gave the answer....👍
Excellent summary!
Ye went to Buzludzia in Bulgaria! Good Man!
We did indeed! Great riding around there isn't there. Then across to Belogradchik Fortress which I thought was the highlight
I do have a question that you maybe able to answer. I have a Euro 5 Himalayan that I love and use as my commute to work through single track B roads to work near Pendle Hill. Over the last snow I had to abandon my bike in a local village and walk into work due to the heavy snow fall over ice. When i came back to my bike later that day I found the gear lever pushed in (I did lever the lever a little back out), but since then at lower than 3.5k revs and with load up hill (commonly), after changing gear I am hearing a rhythmic clicking sound (like the side stand coming up fast, but it is not that I have checked) even spaced apart for a second or two. I have taken it in twice to the dealer ship and they could not find any fault to their knowledge, but it is still happening. I did find a broken bolt on the under pan protector and a couple of loose bolts onthe panier rack. Would you have any advice?
That's an interesting one Richard, especially if two dealers have had a look at it and said there's no fault. Does it sound like something loose on the chassis or something inside the engine?
@@nathanthepostman I think so. It is only a month off it’s 6000 mile service and I hope it can be found when they open her up.
Hi Nathan what helmet camera do you use for videos thanks
Hi Sam. It's just a go pro 8 I'm using.
Hello Nathan, thank you for the comparative review. Any thoughts on how allay 'puncture anxiety' with these tubed bikes? Peter M
Hi Peter. I guess to be honest the only real way to lose the anxiety of getting a puncture is knowing that you have the tools and technique necessary to change the tube when/if it does happen. I tend though to often just ride with a can of instant tyre weld which I've found effective in about 9 out of 10 occasions. It's a quick roadside repair but obviously won't help if you have a rip in the tyre etc. Slime inside the tube as a preventive is also an option, and I've completely forgot the weblink but there's a quick DIY fix to creating your own tubeless solution on a spoked rim which could be worth doing for a bit of peace of mind. Hope that helps.
@@nathanthepostman Thank you Nathan. Although I knew about Slime I didn't know about instant tyre weld. I've contacted a couple of firms who can seal the rim. One would charge about £600 plus cost of tubeless tyres (CooperB can do a rebuild of the Enfield wheels but with the replacement tubeless tyres this would be about £1200 and take up to six weeks - I don't know why so long). Peter M
I’ve seen a few DIY YT videos that are fairly inexpensive. I think Nathan is recommending that solution. Some sell a kit and some use tape and sealant. I can’t remember what they use. Good luck.
@@clayfarnet970 Thank you Clay. I think the squirty job is the (cheap and practical) answer.
reliability is totally killing the deal for me on himalayan, if honda made hymalaian,, that would be something :D
Himmy is perfectly reliable. Get back under your rock 😂
*Crap Game* 🎉
I dont know the technical things but see and follow Itchy boots channel and see the capabilities and the limitations ( If any) of Honda CRF300 Rally. It looks faster on the road too compared to Himalayan.
I'm on the market for a second bike. I own an RR. Whilst I love it. It's hardly suitable for those single track b roads with moss growing out of the middle. I'm not overly bothered about going off road. Would either bike be suitable do you think?
Hi Philip. Sorry for late reply. Yes i think either of these bikes would be fine for that type of riding. Personally I think the Himalayan is a nicer place to be on the back roads - grass down the middle etc - and the CRF is that bit more suited to proper green lanes. But either will do.
You will probs heard this before my 2019 himalayan suffered zero on relays etc...even on origanal battery...but mates 2021 model did and most probs where the awfull white grease on relays hence no connection ...my classic 350 i cleaned grease off ...but regards vid good thinking....
Yeah I never had relay issues with the Euro 4 bikes either. Not sure what went wrong really. I'm on the MUTT owners forum as well and they seem to have poor relays as well. Maybe it was a bad batch filtering through some of the manufacturers, plus that tonne of grease they use. Once I'd fitted the aftermarket relays I haven't had a problem since. Tell a lie, I had one go having come through a ford. Thankfully was carrying a spare although I believe you can just pop the indicator relay in.
Id have gotten a DR650. Bigger motor and not much heavier. Are they still available in your area?
Good looking bike brother 😊👍
Disapointing progress with the Himalayan and other Adv bikes, heavier than my 36 year old Transalp and with half the horsepower. 40kg more than the CRF is just a non-starter, watch Itchy Boots and her CRF ride from South America to Alaska. The lesson from that is that you pick the bike for the worst and challenging stretches and not the easy tar ride.
Yeah I think we all know about Itchy Boots and she's done a great job on the CRF. It's clearly the bike for her on that trip and for her as a rider..
Good review. Depends on the use like you Say. I personally own a Himalayan. By the way here in France we have now Access to the VOGE 300 RALLY. Looking forward to try one. Cheers.
Yeah unfortunately it looks like Voge has quietly retired or been side lined from the UK market so not likely to get that 300. A shame as it definitely looks to have potential.
I’m sure I’ve seen pre orders available for the voge 300
@@iangriffiths9930 I asked the guys at Lexmoto (the importer) where Voge was on their stand at NEC and they were very non-committal about Voge still being available in 2023. Hopefully so given the 500s are a good bike. But that 300 will have to be cheap and decent to compete. And they just need some good dealers to get behind them.
It’s on the Motogb website for £3800
@@iangriffiths9930 Interesting. Hadn't spotted that. So they've got a new importer, hence why Lexmoto were a bit coy at the show. Could be a good move that as MotoGB have the dealers to do a much better job with the Voge brand than Lexmoto. And the price seems very competitive. Cheers for the heads up.
15:46 My 2020 Himalayan user manual specifies 10,000km (~6,000 miles) service interval for oil and filter etc. Not sure what Nathhan mean's when he says 3,000 miles
It is every 6000 for oil and filter but it's every 3000 for a valve inspection when most dealers I've found will do an oil and filter as well. I don't personally think the 3000 mile valve check is necessary but it is in the service manual so technically necessary for the warranty.
@@nathanthepostman Many thanks for taking the time to clear that up. Loved the video btw
My varadero is getting too heavy, part x me for one of your CTs mate, buddy, there's a good lad, 😉
Swaps for a semi famous Sinnis Terrain?
@@CuriousGoose my mate has the 2022 model it nearly killed me those brakes stop like the Road Runner.
@@martinpip8212 might just be your mates bike. Nothing wrong with mine, too strong off-road if anything.
Any thoughts on the Versys 300X?
I keep looking at them, I know it lacks a inch or so of travel from the Himalayan/KTM 390 adv, but 39hp, 175kg, bulletproof proven reliability & one of the big 4 with global parts availability to me could make it the ideal bike for travel.
Yeah I quite liked the Versys when I rode one when they first came out. They take a bit of getting used to as they have zero torque, are really low geared and have a terrible seat. To me they're a bit like an upright 90s two stroke 125. All or nothing. But definitely reliable, and ok on the trails, certainly up to KTM 390 Adventure conditions, and swift on the road. I'd say the KTM is it's natural rival. I do keep my eye out for a good value second hand one but prices seem strong for them. Shame they never committed to the 400 Versys. That could have been very good with a bit more mid range.
Bottom end torque, or rather the lack of it, from most accounts. Fancied one myself, till i tried to swing a leg over. The Suzuki 250V strom that was next to it actually felt better comfort wise.
@@nathanthepostmanahah, my last proper dirt bike was actually a ‘02 DT125 I had about 8-10 years ago, if the delivery is comparable to that then that actually adds to the temptation. :D I imagine the seat is easily fixed in the aftermarket.
Yeah I’ve been keeping an eye out for them, £4k seems to be the very minimum, and I know a lot of stuff came as an option on them (centre stand, engine guards, bash plate etc)
I owned a 300x and it was too vibey, too tall and not enough power. Bought a 2020 vstrom 650 xt too top heavy. Now have the 2021 Himi fixed the factory flaws and loving it even if it's not fast, but it takes me to the places want to go on dime. It's a commuter, medium off roader at a pace and just great to ride. BTW using the handlebar method is the easiest way I pick it up.
I love your crocs baby❤
All ill say is Itchy boots used both .
Lighter bikes always easier amd better off road.
Hence MX bikes weigh zip.
Buy on the road they are not that great
My wife's bike is just 20kg heavier then mine, it feels like tons in every slow hairpin (i'm quite fit for my age). 40kgs 'd b some world in zero grip situations.
If you had to throw another bike into the mix what would it be?
Good question. I've been riding the CCM GP450 a bit more recently. That bikes shows how it should be done. More power and better suspension than both, same weight as the Honda. More capable than both on the trails. Stronger than both on the road. But would you trust it on a long trip? Will head out on the KTM 390 Adv next week for comparison. But you could also throw in a CB500X, Tenere 600 maybe?
The question I was going to ask.
@@nathanthepostman not the BMW? I didn't get chance to ride that one on the A2 trip, because it was off the road waiting for parts
@@nathanthepostman I changed my Himalayan for an '03 XT600 - lighter, more HP, more capable all round but they don't make them any more. I also had disappointing electrical issues with the Himi, cutting out for no reason. Not the fuel relay, it would just stall and not restart for a few minutes. No problems with the XT - nothing to go wrong! He said...jinxing it!
Klr 650 and himalyan 411 best of the best of the best.....
🇮🇳🙏
Unfortunately we don't get the KRL over here otherwise it would be a great contender.
The Himalayan has a rugged charm that the CRF hasn't. The CT for the outback is a good idea. I don't ride off-road, so what do I know? I quite fancy a HNTR350 but then I take my 390 Duke for a ride, and it impresses, so if I was an off-road man, I'd probably get a 390 Adventure.
Nath get your hair cut, your looking like Nic Saunders love child lol, great vids
I've owned the himalayan and tbh it's nowhere close to being in the same league as the crf
Those crocs though 😆
I own a Himalayan and to be honest, it does nothing good. It lacks power, acceleration and handling, and is way too heavy for a bike with only 25 hp. I've never ridden a CRF, but I'm sure with it's lighter weight and good geometry it would tick several boxes foe anyone wanting to enjoy riding their bike.
Man you are so wrong! Everyone knows that those are your crocs...
Haha. Rumbled!
CRF450L anyone?
Itchy boots rode 300 rally and showed what the bike can do patagonia to alaska the bike has been proven by her
First email guy
You bought 2 RE Himalayan, you don't have any issues but suddenly you are worried about the reliability after 2 years??? Wtf
No I'm not personally too bothered about reliability issues but some might be so I'd steer them towards the Honda.
Hey Observer. I just happened to read this comment again and realised I completely misread it first time. I read it as you meaning me buying 2 himalayans and still worrying, not the guy in the email. My apologies for that.
Excellent analysis.