0:00 - Introduction about Q&A 2:51 - First question, on the game "Deceit". Can Christians play games like Deceit or other board games where lying is a key part of the gameplay? In this video, Pastor Tim tackles the question: "Should Christians play games that involve lying?" Discover biblical principles and practical advice on whether games that encourage deception align with a believer's walk with Christ.
(Posting this prior to watching, I will probably add an edit after watching): I think it comes down to the Holy Spirit’s conviction of conscience. To one it may be sin, to another, maybe not. Me personally, I think if my friends and I all agree that it’s a game and we are aware that within the game your goal is to bluff, then I see no problem. However, if someone is convicted, we simply don’t play that game and choose one where everyone can play clear of conscience. This is the same reason I don’t play “Cards Christians Like” because it encourages crude and off color humor. After watching the video… I’ve gotta say I’m convinced. Thank you. Time to sort my board games and weed out the bad ones again.
This is a good question. I know for me I've definitely felt a bit off playing games that involve deception (secret mafia , secret Hitler). There are also movies about lieing or that make you root for the character who has questionable characteristics, and it makes me feel weird.
Yeah, I really don't like the game Coup which seems to be training people to deceive each other - training people to think in that way. That's the big problem I think, that it trains people to think in that way, to lie to gain advantage over someone else. But it's not at all a healthy way of thinking. Wow, a scripture to back this up: *Jeremiah 9:5* - Everyone deceives his neighbor, and no one speaks the truth; they have taught their tongue to speak lies; they weary themselves committing iniquity. (ESV)
What do you have too say about acting in Christmas plays being an actor in general? It’s just an honest question since you brought up lying in board games like how do you separate acting from making up a story? It seems like we cool with watching movies tv shows where people are acting lying about who they are yet get offended when somebody we know are acting lying about who they are.
It seems the main contention is between “speaking that which one knows to be wrong” and ambiguous actions meant to trick someone. This sermon addresses that very issue and distinction. I think this may be helpful in addition to this wonderful discussion! :) th-cam.com/video/SirwDQvVfvk/w-d-xo.htmlsi=YlgpEzhnm4duCikd
Thank you so much for the link to this sermon, this was a huge benefit to me. It’s definitely a good companion with this Ask Pastor Tim episode. I guess I’ve always assumed lying with words and nonverbal trickery were the same. But now I’m getting the difference and distinction between the two. This will for sure help to determine what games I play are permissible.
Some really good points made. I didn't hear jokes mentioned. Jokes are basically just lies that people love to tell and hear. I think of Rev 22:15 'For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie'. Then there's Eph 5:4 'Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks'. I don't tell jokes. No problem there, that's easy. But when someone tells me a joke (a 'clean' joke) not participating is difficult to say the least. Many translations insert the word 'crude' or 'coarse' before jesting but those words aren't there. These translations make jesting permissible, just not coarse or crude jesting. Look up the meaning of Jesting in the Strong's and then those word meanings in the dictionary, like the 1828 Webster's online. Then use the 1828 to look up Joke or Joker. It's the same as Jest or Jester. Jesting (Joking) is something Christians have no problem doing and our lives are filled with ways we jest. We don't see this as a sin but it's right there in Ephesians. Maybe I'm seeing this wrong but from what I read I can't help but see it this way.
Yeah I think if the lying game is not acceptable, neither is a sports game at it’s deception, don’t see a difference, seems someone is partial to sports
To be fair, lying is far more baked into games like Secret Hitler, Coup and Cheat than it is to basketball or football. In those lying games the deception is integral to the basic functioning of the activity and without it there would be no game. I do generally agree with your point though - my honest gut feeling is that deception is wrong even in games. Certainly the medieval church thought as such with its codes of chivalry. The whole idea of "unsportsmanlike" behaviour is built on the supposition that one ought to be honest and hold oneself to a higher standard than what the rules happen to permit.
@ yeah I can kinda see we’re the games are a little worse , after my wife beat it into me lol, but I do see a lot of times were people let a lot of sport stuff slide as a Christian, because they like sports, which I don’t ,so I guess I try to find fault.lol
I’m glad you mentioned this. He makes a hundred exceptions for sports, and seems to put sports in a different category from games simply because he’s partial to sports. And btw, yes sports teams do make plans to deceive the other team.
@ it’s now only that, there’s a lot of trash being placed on the commercials they promote a lot of sinful things, during the games, look at the NFL 1/2 time commercials, I can’t speak on a lot of it cause I don’t watch it but I listen to what the guys at work talk about
Only When you know nothing about GOD, following situations seem logical morally RIGHT. When you have your own BiBLE, and create your own habitual sin natures may cause great harm in the future. Odeh La-EL ABBA levav ❤❤❤❤❤
@illbehonest is this potentially a Christian growth thing? I have heard and experienced in my life things I used to be okay with kinda fall off because a conviction came upon me. I was also wandering why do Christians differ on this tv and movies I think even truly saved even do?
I agree, Scripture brings conviction in the area of entertainment. Virtually all TV shows and movies are simply made up stories that those who watch 'allow themselves to believe'. Movies/TV are just lies that are accepted and loved. Revelation 22:15 and Phil 4:8 warn about participating only in truth, honesty and not loving a lie.
0:00 - Introduction about Q&A
2:51 - First question, on the game "Deceit".
Can Christians play games like Deceit or other board games where lying is a key part of the gameplay? In this video, Pastor Tim tackles the question: "Should Christians play games that involve lying?" Discover biblical principles and practical advice on whether games that encourage deception align with a believer's walk with Christ.
(Posting this prior to watching, I will probably add an edit after watching): I think it comes down to the Holy Spirit’s conviction of conscience. To one it may be sin, to another, maybe not. Me personally, I think if my friends and I all agree that it’s a game and we are aware that within the game your goal is to bluff, then I see no problem. However, if someone is convicted, we simply don’t play that game and choose one where everyone can play clear of conscience. This is the same reason I don’t play “Cards Christians Like” because it encourages crude and off color humor.
After watching the video… I’ve gotta say I’m convinced. Thank you. Time to sort my board games and weed out the bad ones again.
This is a good question.
I know for me I've definitely felt a bit off playing games that involve deception (secret mafia , secret Hitler). There are also movies about lieing or that make you root for the character who has questionable characteristics, and it makes me feel weird.
Yeah, I really don't like the game Coup which seems to be training people to deceive each other - training people to think in that way. That's the big problem I think, that it trains people to think in that way, to lie to gain advantage over someone else. But it's not at all a healthy way of thinking. Wow, a scripture to back this up: *Jeremiah 9:5* - Everyone deceives his neighbor, and no one speaks the truth; they have taught their tongue to speak lies; they weary themselves committing iniquity. (ESV)
I love Christmas 🎅🎄
What do you have too say about acting in Christmas plays being an actor in general? It’s just an honest question since you brought up lying in board games like how do you separate acting from making up a story? It seems like we cool with watching movies tv shows where people are acting lying about who they are yet get offended when somebody we know are acting lying about who they are.
It seems the main contention is between “speaking that which one knows to be wrong” and ambiguous actions meant to trick someone. This sermon addresses that very issue and distinction. I think this may be helpful in addition to this wonderful discussion! :)
th-cam.com/video/SirwDQvVfvk/w-d-xo.htmlsi=YlgpEzhnm4duCikd
Yup
Thank you so much for the link to this sermon, this was a huge benefit to me. It’s definitely a good companion with this Ask Pastor Tim episode.
I guess I’ve always assumed lying with words and nonverbal trickery were the same. But now I’m getting the difference and distinction between the two. This will for sure help to determine what games I play are permissible.
I think motive matters
When a deceptive spirit was sent there was a good reason.
Some really good points made. I didn't hear jokes mentioned. Jokes are basically just lies that people love to tell and hear. I think of Rev 22:15 'For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie'. Then there's Eph 5:4 'Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks'. I don't tell jokes. No problem there, that's easy. But when someone tells me a joke (a 'clean' joke) not participating is difficult to say the least.
Many translations insert the word 'crude' or 'coarse' before jesting but those words aren't there. These translations make jesting permissible, just not coarse or crude jesting. Look up the meaning of Jesting in the Strong's and then those word meanings in the dictionary, like the 1828 Webster's online. Then use the 1828 to look up Joke or Joker. It's the same as Jest or Jester. Jesting (Joking) is something Christians have no problem doing and our lives are filled with ways we jest. We don't see this as a sin but it's right there in Ephesians. Maybe I'm seeing this wrong but from what I read I can't help but see it this way.
Yeah I think if the lying game is not acceptable, neither is a sports game at it’s deception, don’t see a difference, seems someone is partial to sports
To be fair, lying is far more baked into games like Secret Hitler, Coup and Cheat than it is to basketball or football. In those lying games the deception is integral to the basic functioning of the activity and without it there would be no game.
I do generally agree with your point though - my honest gut feeling is that deception is wrong even in games. Certainly the medieval church thought as such with its codes of chivalry. The whole idea of "unsportsmanlike" behaviour is built on the supposition that one ought to be honest and hold oneself to a higher standard than what the rules happen to permit.
@ yeah I can kinda see we’re the games are a little worse , after my wife beat it into me lol, but I do see a lot of times were people let a lot of sport stuff slide as a Christian, because they like sports, which I don’t ,so I guess I try to find fault.lol
I’m glad you mentioned this. He makes a hundred exceptions for sports, and seems to put sports in a different category from games simply because he’s partial to sports. And btw, yes sports teams do make plans to deceive the other team.
@ it’s now only that, there’s a lot of trash being placed on the commercials they promote a lot of sinful things, during the games, look at the NFL 1/2 time commercials, I can’t speak on a lot of it cause I don’t watch it but I listen to what the guys at work talk about
“Give me chapter and verse.”
“Give me the chapter and verse the allows TH-cam “
Come on dude 🧠
Only When you know nothing about GOD, following situations seem logical morally RIGHT.
When you have your own BiBLE, and create your own habitual sin natures may cause great harm in the future.
Odeh La-EL ABBA levav ❤❤❤❤❤
why would you want to play that garbage???
@illbehonest is this potentially a Christian growth thing? I have heard and experienced in my life things I used to be okay with kinda fall off because a conviction came upon me. I was also wandering why do Christians differ on this tv and movies I think even truly saved even do?
I agree, Scripture brings conviction in the area of entertainment. Virtually all TV shows and movies are simply made up stories that those who watch 'allow themselves to believe'. Movies/TV are just lies that are accepted and loved. Revelation 22:15 and Phil 4:8 warn about participating only in truth, honesty and not loving a lie.