The two legendary rivals seemed to have given Oda the biggest run for his money, yet both would falter due to their leader’s deaths from outside circumstances. I can’t help but marvel at how many other ways things could’ve been different if this or that had gone differently... Sengoku is a conflict with a million variables leading to a billion historical branches.
Considering that kenshin and shingen as equally skilled commander and by looking at how the impact kenshin made to nobunaga, shingen would give oda and tokugawa a hard time if shingen still lives
Nice to be back. History is full of ifs and buts . if Shingen and Kenshin didn’t die ! This is where Ieyasu proves the importance of maintaining good health
Funny enough it is said Ieyasu despite being overweight used to do daily exercice like gym and swinging. He also was said not to be a drunk. Maybe his only addiction was to bite his nails when stressed
Kenshin as always was a badass. I don't think he'd consider taking the capital even after this victory. It's such a long march. I feel like he would've stayed back and maybe try to consolidate the northern lands that he had by pushing incrementally either into Takeda or Hojo territory. He just didn't seem like the guy who would make such a deep push.
I always wondered what it would've been like if Kenshin approached Katsuyori after or even before his loss at nagashino- and made a Takeda-Uesugi coalition. Nobunaga would be sweating bullets, though I'd assume though loss of land the Oda would eventually fight to a stalemate.
@@thrudgelmirkenshin3267 Well... other rumour said you might be a "female" in disguise, due to having "Monthly pain in the stomach" and that you been "Celibate most of your life without marrying"
Uesugi getting revenge for his friendly rival Shingen, RIP Sorry to hear about the cancellation of your move during this current mess, but at least you still have a classroom online who won't say no to a new episode, lol
As always, I really appreciate your content. When you first posted, I commented on every video to try to express some small measure of gratitude and encouragement, because I was worried you would burn out and lose interest. I’m so glad that you’ve continued with this channel and I’m excited to see what you do in the future. I was really sorry to hear about the pandemic delaying your move, by the way! Thanks for continuing to post in the meantime and I hope your plans can get back on track soon. I think you’ll have access to some amazing sources of this kind of content living in-country.
Really makes you wonder about all these what if scenarios if Shingen and Kenshin hadn't pass away like they did. Was the Demon king really as powerful as he is portrayed or is he just lucky that the Tiger of Kai and Dragon of Echigo didn't come knocking on his door sooner. Nobunaga was great but I can't help but feel like history would've been different if Shingen and Kenshin didn't pass away. In my opinion I believe one of those 2 would've been the unifiers seeing as they both were from a region surrounded by clans that we're just as powerful as they were but I guess we'll never know.
Kenshin was the only daimyo who wins a battle against nobunaga, and The only one who breakthrough odawara castle in 1551 making Ujiyasu Hojo beging for peace, Kenshin was the supreme Daimyo of the sengoku period, thats why they call him "god of war"
Just a few things to notice with the battle of Tetorigawa. Firstly, the existence of the battle was highly debatable. Many sources indicate that Oda forces retreated after hearing the Uesugi capture of Nanao castle, instead of engaging with the Uesugi army. Now with the Uesugi invasion of Noto. The civil war actually broke out because of Kenshin. At this time, the Hatakeyama daimyo Yoshitaka had passed away, leaving his young son Haruomaru in charge. Seizing this opportunity, Kenshin argued that the Hatakeyama hostage under the Uesugi - Hatakeyama Yoshinori (later Jojo masashige) was the more legitimate inheritor and declared war against the Hatakeyama. This is where Oda comes into play. Hatakeyama retainer Cho (who at this time had taken most of the power within the Hatakeyama clan) successfully defended Nanao castle. However, he feared Kenshin's second attack and asked for Oda reinforcements. Knowing that Oda reinforcements would be coming, Kenshin asked the Honganji in Kaga to delay the Oda attack and he would quickly take down Nanao castle himself. This was why Kenshin and Oda got into war.
also, Kenshin's campaign in Kanto was a massive military failure. it actually made him seem incompetent due to his lack of results in taking Hojo castles. The idea that Kenshin could somehow capture Kyoto could only be called preposterous. Even if Kenshin did smash the Oda army at Tetorigawa, he'd have to send his army through Kaga, Echizen and Omi to reach Kyoto. His supply line would no doubt be too far-stretched and without proper establishment of Uesugi influence in Etchu and Noto, local pro-Oda rebellions would decimate the Uesugi rule, cutting his army off from his military command centre in Echigo. Kenshin's real intention was probably to halt the Oda influence at Noto and Etchu, while his plan had always been to go back to Kanto and destroy the Hojo (of which he announced publicly a few days before his passing).
@@rayhu5559 Yes, there is a lot of criticism of the Kanto invasion.. While he penetrated deeply (Kamakura) he could not hold it so it just ended up being a big waste... Had he gone into Etchu, Noto and Kaga much earlier he would have been in a better position... Also, not clearly declaring an heir was another failure... That said, I would not want to face him in battle!
The coronavirus never brought the shogunate up, it's his dedication of learning the Japanese culture, the shogunate would still have a lot off subscribers!!!!
It usually is a snowball. There are several plateaus for TH-cam creators with varying times in purgatory between them. His current surge is likely to keep going to 100-150. Then after a time of stagnant growth sudden catapult to up to 250. After that it might need something broader than the channel is currently tooled for but his quality of production and speaking charisma are probably enough to get him into the lower ranks of the massive channels on existing momentum over time.
I think Uesugi kenshin 100% was going to head to Kyoto. But not in the way the other daimyo were. I think Kenshin was terrified of how the muromachi bakufu collapsed, and instead grew slowly and consolidated loyalty and support in the provinces he conquered.
Oda Nobunaga did not take part in this battle. The battle was commanded by Shibata Katsuie - he was the regional commander of the Hokuriku region. Oda sent soldiers to assist, but the battle was commanded by Shibata. Both the Shinchô-ki and Shinchô kôki sources mentions no Oda Nobunaga at the field of Tedorigawa. Best, a historian
Excellent channel the game samurai warriors 8 empires brought me here now im hooked. Im at the point were im saying to my self just one more episode then ill go to sleep lol. Love the videos and the skill it takes to even pronounce all of the names nevermind the research that goes intp each episode, keep up the good work!! 👍
on a mount and blade type of game for the old xbox called kingdom under fire you had a mission to bait the enemy to cross a river then you would open the flood gates, i see the corean studio who made had done his homework on japanese history
I really believe Oda Nobunaga & Tokugawa Ieyasu used Ninja to assassinate Takeda Shingen & Uesugi Kenshin. It would make sense as those were Nobunaga's biggest immediate threats & it's known Hattori Hanzo was assisting the Tokugawa war effort at this time. It also makes sense when you consider Nobunaga's character, who was already seen as dishonourable too many, he would likely be inclined to gorilla tactics rather than a honourable, lengthy and costly war. Such an interesting story when you also think about Nobunaga's death later on at the hand of his own retainer.
Uesugi Kenshin: Oda Nobunaga, you murderer and heretic! In the name of Bishamonten, I shall purge thee from the face of this world! Oda Nobunaga: De aru ka?! You wanna fight me, you bloody monk? Just bring it! At Tedorigawa… Uesugi Kenshin: Kagekatsu, Kagetora, Kanetsugu! Unleash the river to drown the wretched armies of that vile heretic Oda Nobunaga! And thus, Oda Nobunaga got beaten at Tedorigawa and somehow, during one of their vacations, we have somehow this conversation between Oda Nobunaga and Tokugawa Ieyasu Tokugawa Ieyasu: So, you got owned by Uesugi Kenshin? Looks like we have a lot in common Oda Nobunaga: Shut up or I’ll kill you!
Those daimyo from the west of Oda is weak. See how much struggle for Oda to wipe out Ikko-Ikki. Since in the east Takeda, Uesugi and Hojo is actually far stronger than Oda. Even Hideyoshi have a hard time take down Odawara yet he have a whole Honshu to support him. And he lucky that he doesn't have to faces the lion of Sagami. Lucky for Oda, Mori Motonari is also died in 1571.
Why does the recap speculate on what Takeda Shingen might have done rather than focus on what Uesugi Kenshin actually did? Is that really the takeaway?
They defeated each other, and were defeated by (but also defeated) the Lion of Sagami on multiple occasions. The three of them were pretty evenly matched and they wasted it all fighting each other instead of paying attention to what was happening further west (well, they eventually did, and even managed to get some victories against the Unifiers, but by then they were dying so…)
Wait Wait wait. I thought Kenshin led a religious lifestyle. He didn't even marry and so didn't have any direct heirs. Why was he drinking alcohol then?
The two legendary rivals seemed to have given Oda the biggest run for his money, yet both would falter due to their leader’s deaths from outside circumstances. I can’t help but marvel at how many other ways things could’ve been different if this or that had gone differently... Sengoku is a conflict with a million variables leading to a billion historical branches.
Literal plot armor xD
Considering that kenshin and shingen as equally skilled commander and by looking at how the impact kenshin made to nobunaga, shingen would give oda and tokugawa a hard time if shingen still lives
Nice to be back. History is full of ifs and buts . if Shingen and Kenshin didn’t die ! This is where Ieyasu proves the importance of maintaining good health
Funny enough it is said Ieyasu despite being overweight used to do daily exercice like gym and swinging. He also was said not to be a drunk. Maybe his only addiction was to bite his nails when stressed
Kenshin as always was a badass. I don't think he'd consider taking the capital even after this victory. It's such a long march. I feel like he would've stayed back and maybe try to consolidate the northern lands that he had by pushing incrementally either into Takeda or Hojo territory. He just didn't seem like the guy who would make such a deep push.
I always wondered what it would've been like if Kenshin approached Katsuyori after or even before his loss at nagashino- and made a Takeda-Uesugi coalition. Nobunaga would be sweating bullets, though I'd assume though loss of land the Oda would eventually fight to a stalemate.
Pour one out for Kenshin guys :(
A saké shot in honor of Kenshin, indeed a formidable opponent for the Oda, Takeda, and Hojo clans.
Ironically, excessive drinking was probably why he died..
"Now the world is mine, muhahahaha!"- Oda Nobunaga after hearing of Kenshin death
I heard that i have dog ears you know.
@@thrudgelmirkenshin3267 Well... other rumour said you might be a "female" in disguise, due to having "Monthly pain in the stomach" and that you been "Celibate most of your life without marrying"
@@hanchiman but I was resurrected in present day oda talking shit about me.
@@thrudgelmirkenshin3267 :O well last I heard was that Nobunaga resurrected as a short girl
@@hanchiman not while i'm alive i will resurrect ikko ikki clan and trained matchlock warrior monks.
Uesugi getting revenge for his friendly rival Shingen, RIP
Sorry to hear about the cancellation of your move during this current mess, but at least you still have a classroom online who won't say no to a new episode, lol
This is true!
TRUE
Oda: I am the greatest warlord in Japan
Kenshin: Kid, Go and play elsewhere
As always, I really appreciate your content. When you first posted, I commented on every video to try to express some small measure of gratitude and encouragement, because I was worried you would burn out and lose interest. I’m so glad that you’ve continued with this channel and I’m excited to see what you do in the future.
I was really sorry to hear about the pandemic delaying your move, by the way! Thanks for continuing to post in the meantime and I hope your plans can get back on track soon. I think you’ll have access to some amazing sources of this kind of content living in-country.
Thank you for your support!
@@TheShogunate Of course, let me know if you get a Patreon or something going!
Damn, Kenshin died too young. Imagine if he can make his way to 60. There a lot of things to watch.
Really makes you wonder about all these what if scenarios if Shingen and Kenshin hadn't pass away like they did. Was the Demon king really as powerful as he is portrayed or is he just lucky that the Tiger of Kai and Dragon of Echigo didn't come knocking on his door sooner. Nobunaga was great but I can't help but feel like history would've been different if Shingen and Kenshin didn't pass away. In my opinion I believe one of those 2 would've been the unifiers seeing as they both were from a region surrounded by clans that we're just as powerful as they were but I guess we'll never know.
Kenshin was the only daimyo who wins a battle against nobunaga, and The only one who breakthrough odawara castle in 1551 making Ujiyasu Hojo beging for peace, Kenshin was the supreme Daimyo of the sengoku period, thats why they call him "god of war"
Kenshin is my hero of Sengoku period
That’s grate, my hero is Takeda Shingen 👍😎
@@gustavtrads5622 Now fight
Just a few things to notice with the battle of Tetorigawa. Firstly, the existence of the battle was highly debatable. Many sources indicate that Oda forces retreated after hearing the Uesugi capture of Nanao castle, instead of engaging with the Uesugi army.
Now with the Uesugi invasion of Noto. The civil war actually broke out because of Kenshin. At this time, the Hatakeyama daimyo Yoshitaka had passed away, leaving his young son Haruomaru in charge. Seizing this opportunity, Kenshin argued that the Hatakeyama hostage under the Uesugi - Hatakeyama Yoshinori (later Jojo masashige) was the more legitimate inheritor and declared war against the Hatakeyama. This is where Oda comes into play. Hatakeyama retainer Cho (who at this time had taken most of the power within the Hatakeyama clan) successfully defended Nanao castle. However, he feared Kenshin's second attack and asked for Oda reinforcements. Knowing that Oda reinforcements would be coming, Kenshin asked the Honganji in Kaga to delay the Oda attack and he would quickly take down Nanao castle himself. This was why Kenshin and Oda got into war.
also, Kenshin's campaign in Kanto was a massive military failure. it actually made him seem incompetent due to his lack of results in taking Hojo castles.
The idea that Kenshin could somehow capture Kyoto could only be called preposterous. Even if Kenshin did smash the Oda army at Tetorigawa, he'd have to send his army through Kaga, Echizen and Omi to reach Kyoto. His supply line would no doubt be too far-stretched and without proper establishment of Uesugi influence in Etchu and Noto, local pro-Oda rebellions would decimate the Uesugi rule, cutting his army off from his military command centre in Echigo. Kenshin's real intention was probably to halt the Oda influence at Noto and Etchu, while his plan had always been to go back to Kanto and destroy the Hojo (of which he announced publicly a few days before his passing).
@@rayhu5559 Yes, there is a lot of criticism of the Kanto invasion.. While he penetrated deeply (Kamakura) he could not hold it so it just ended up being a big waste... Had he gone into Etchu, Noto and Kaga much earlier he would have been in a better position... Also, not clearly declaring an heir was another failure... That said, I would not want to face him in battle!
My favorite series on TH-cam by far.
Ahhh the venerable Uesugi theme. One of my favorites! Love this channel!
I've read that Nobunaga was scared of Kenshin historically. Then again, who wouldn't be?
Gotta love Kenshin's chess-ing around
Wonder what chess move Shingen would pull on Nobunaga should he still alive
Bro WTF Kenshin You can't just die before a climatic battle
Thats rude
Well his rival shingen did the same tho
I was not expecting this today. I am happily surprised
Can't be a coincidence that both Oda rivals, Shingen and Kenshin die in somewhat mysterious circumstances.
So glad to see a new post!
Glad to see you back I was thinking you would be out of commission for a month or so. Welcome back we missed you !
Thank you!
your name is sarcastic
I'm so happy this series continue after waiting for quite some time.😁
How much had the Coronavirus brought you up? I can remember a time when you didn't have a thousand subs! Much less 3000!
I imagine it has had an effect
The coronavirus never brought the shogunate up, it's his dedication of learning the Japanese culture, the shogunate would still have a lot off subscribers!!!!
@@michelletort2289 I remember what pushed him over a thousand. It's been a snowball.
It usually is a snowball. There are several plateaus for TH-cam creators with varying times in purgatory between them.
His current surge is likely to keep going to 100-150. Then after a time of stagnant growth sudden catapult to up to 250.
After that it might need something broader than the channel is currently tooled for but his quality of production and speaking charisma are probably enough to get him into the lower ranks of the massive channels on existing momentum over time.
Unless there's a new AAA Samurai RPG or Shogun 3, then he'll hit 250 in a couple months.
this episode also mark the end of Kenshin . Another strong one has gone.
I think Uesugi kenshin 100% was going to head to Kyoto. But not in the way the other daimyo were. I think Kenshin was terrified of how the muromachi bakufu collapsed, and instead grew slowly and consolidated loyalty and support in the provinces he conquered.
Love your videos and Japanese history. Thanks for the upload!
The battle of Tedorigawa a.k.a
Kenshin: Hey Nobunaga look at me…
Bitch
This is an awesome series. Thank you,
Oda Nobunaga did not take part in this battle. The battle was commanded by Shibata Katsuie - he was the regional commander of the Hokuriku region. Oda sent soldiers to assist, but the battle was commanded by Shibata. Both the Shinchô-ki and Shinchô kôki sources mentions no Oda Nobunaga at the field of Tedorigawa. Best, a historian
Never have I seen a more precise and concise presentation of the History of the Sengoku Jidai.
Keep it up! You just got yourself a new subber.
Bro...I love your energy
Excellent channel the game samurai warriors 8 empires brought me here now im hooked. Im at the point were im saying to my self just one more episode then ill go to sleep lol. Love the videos and the skill it takes to even pronounce all of the names nevermind the research that goes intp each episode, keep up the good work!! 👍
Only Kenshin could make Nobunaga whisper a brief: "Oh fuck..."
on a mount and blade type of game for the old xbox called kingdom under fire you had a mission to bait the enemy to cross a river then you would open the flood gates, i see the corean studio who made had done his homework on japanese history
not really, that sort of strategem frequently occured throughout ancient china.
I really believe Oda Nobunaga & Tokugawa Ieyasu used Ninja to assassinate Takeda Shingen & Uesugi Kenshin. It would make sense as those were Nobunaga's biggest immediate threats & it's known Hattori Hanzo was assisting the Tokugawa war effort at this time. It also makes sense when you consider Nobunaga's character, who was already seen as dishonourable too many, he would likely be inclined to gorilla tactics rather than a honourable, lengthy and costly war. Such an interesting story when you also think about Nobunaga's death later on at the hand of his own retainer.
The Shogun has returned!
Uesugi Kenshin: Oda Nobunaga, you murderer and heretic! In the name of Bishamonten, I shall purge thee from the face of this world!
Oda Nobunaga: De aru ka?! You wanna fight me, you bloody monk? Just bring it!
At Tedorigawa…
Uesugi Kenshin: Kagekatsu, Kagetora, Kanetsugu! Unleash the river to drown the wretched armies of that vile heretic Oda Nobunaga!
And thus, Oda Nobunaga got beaten at Tedorigawa and somehow, during one of their vacations, we have somehow this conversation between Oda Nobunaga and Tokugawa Ieyasu
Tokugawa Ieyasu: So, you got owned by Uesugi Kenshin? Looks like we have a lot in common
Oda Nobunaga: Shut up or I’ll kill you!
Nobunaga so lucky to have not felt the full prime of Kenshin and Shingen. If he had, Japans history would be fat different
Those daimyo from the west of Oda is weak. See how much struggle for Oda to wipe out Ikko-Ikki. Since in the east Takeda, Uesugi and Hojo is actually far stronger than Oda. Even Hideyoshi have a hard time take down Odawara yet he have a whole Honshu to support him. And he lucky that he doesn't have to faces the lion of Sagami. Lucky for Oda, Mori Motonari is also died in 1571.
I suggest that you should make a serie about famous warriors in Sengoku Jidai 😎😎😎
The would be Spoiler of great unifiers. Probably the most loyal to the Shogunate out of all the daimyo.
Very Nice! What a pity haven’t Portuguese subtitle!
These illustrations are godlike. ¿Where did you get them?
Kenshin shouldn’t have drank so much alcohol during his life
Oda Nobunaga he not in battel first he come last after the flood and ordered his army to retreat
So True The Tiger And The Dragon Look A Like
Shingen And Kenshin
Why does the recap speculate on what Takeda Shingen might have done rather than focus on what Uesugi Kenshin actually did? Is that really the takeaway?
Great Channel, I learned a lot from the manga Path of the Assassin, the tale of Hattori Hanzo, Tokugawas Shinobi, have you read it? Regards
Uesugi Kenshin, a true punk
could you make some episodes about Ashina Clan?
I'm planning on making full clan history videos after the end of the Sengoku Jidai series.
The Shogunate, that would be great
As powerful as Oda was, goes to show some bad decisions and luck definitely contributed to his rise.
Lucky Oda (again).
What if .. the Takeda and the Uesugi joint forces together. They would have been invincible.
Finally!
If Uesugi Kenshin could defeat Oda Nobunaga then so could Takeda Shingen.
No one could defeat the Tiger 🐅 and the 🐉
They defeated each other, and were defeated by (but also defeated) the Lion of Sagami on multiple occasions. The three of them were pretty evenly matched and they wasted it all fighting each other instead of paying attention to what was happening further west (well, they eventually did, and even managed to get some victories against the Unifiers, but by then they were dying so…)
Nice 👍
Ure a great story teller. I dont kno y 2 ppl gavr u a thumbs down.
In the north, those large green provinces belong to whom? 🤔
What if nobunaga would have countinied fighing? Second battle of tedorigawa?
How is Japan treating you??
Unfortunately I have been delayed due to the coronavirus, so I'll be moving in the fall instead.
Wait Wait wait. I thought Kenshin led a religious lifestyle. He didn't even marry and so didn't have any direct heirs. Why was he drinking alcohol then?
I think that shingen would also defeat Nobunaga
could you talk about Uesugi Kenshin being woman theory? plz
oda a buddna nath