Maybe it's a quirk of my eyestigmatism, but I find larger dot sizes to be much cleaner around the edges at least. A 2 moa dot will bloom with a little comet tail but a 6 moa dot is a clean circle.
I have recently found this to be the case with me. The 6.5 moa dot in my trijicon RMR has really been the cleanest dot I've ever seen. Like an actual dot. 2-3 moa dots look like tally marks to my eyes.
Same. Started with a Holosun 507C, but then went to a 407K. Huge improvement. Might be because the larger size allows me to see it well at lower settings causing it not to bloom as badly. Interestingly a green 2 MOA dot (on my 509T) looks better than a red 2MOA. Similarly I think it’s because I can see the green dot the better at lower brightness settings. I really want to try an 8 or 10 MOA now.
I have the same issue. I have an SRO with a 1 moa red dot . With my astigmatism the bloom makes it look like a 6 moa dot if I went with a 10 moa it would fill the entire window lol
Lowly USPSA, C Class CO shooter here (almost B). I love my C-More RTS2B V5 8-MOA on my Rival. It's a perfect combo for me. Came from a G17 and Burris FF3 3-MOA so both gun and optic are a huge upgrade for my 51 year old eyes.
Just shot a Rival today and was amazed at how accurate it is. I'm definitely going to get one for USPSA CO matches. What optic plate fits the RTS2B on your Rival?
Great review! No red dot sight is perfect for everyone and there is a lot of personal preference and compromise when selecting a RDS, especially with the few offerings available today in the larger (8-10 MOA) dots. I have all of these dots: 5 MOA SRO, 6 MOA SIG Romeo3 Max, 10 MOA C-More RTS2 V5 and concur with your observations. I do like and shoot my 6 MOA Romeo3 Max dots very well, but do wish that SIG would have 8 and 10 MOA dot offerings. That would be the ultimate in dot options for USPSA for me. The SRO has the glare problem with bright oncoming light (early and late day sun) and some people perceive a second dot which can be confusing. The double dot phenomenon can be overcome with extreme target focus and experience. I've heard a lot of guys cursing their SROs in early morning and late afternoon stages. Might be good to also compare the FTP Alpha 3 against this set of dot sights. The Alpha 3 is just a bit more cost than the RTS2 V5 and comes in 6 and 8 MOA standard and occasionally has a 10 MOA special order. The Alpha 3 has a slightly better warranty (30 months) than the RTS2 V5 (12 months) and a tad longer body which may not fit some RDS cuts or plates. I believe the SIG Romeo3 Max, FTP Alpha 3, and C-More RTS2 are built in the same factory under slightly different specs and the SIG Romeo3 Max has the best warranty of 5 years, but also costs the most. I feel like 8-10 MOA for a dot is definitely in the right neighborhood for USPSA. My preference is leaning more toward 8 MOA with 10 MOA a close second choice for Carry Optics in USPSA. It can be a tough call to optimize dot size choice satisfying needs of both fast dot acquisition (really large dot) for close/intermediate range targets and having too large of a dot for precision shots at distances beyond 30 yards or so - which really are not that often. Maybe get an 8 MOA dot for one gun and a 10 MOA dot on your other identical gun and decide after your walkthrough before the match starts. Choose the bigger dot for a hoser match and slightly smaller dot for a match having longer steel and tough partials at distance. I started life in USPSA CO several years ago using the Trijicon RMR RM07 6.5 MOA with over 80k rounds in that platform and that has been my benchmark. Loved that dot for USPSA when there weren't as many good options, just wish the RMR glass was bigger. Great choice for EDC. I firmly believe that to be really invested in the CO Division of the USPSA game one really needs two identical guns and three dots in rotation to cover the bases for when, not if, a dot and/or a gun fails.
What timing. My low-mileage SRO died (yes, on a CZ Shadow) while dryfiring on Friday. Started turning off from the slide racking forward. At least it did it then rather than waiting for Saturday's match. Great video yet again. I find the great dot argument amusing and eternal because it is a matter of individual eyesight and preference. I am an 8 MOA guy. I "recognize" a larger dot faster and issues with accuracy are problems of the end user, not the dot. :-)
Great video. Hope this pushes dot makers to come out with more large window large dot options. Hey Holosun large window ACSS but with the ⭕️ 407co 8moa dot. Go ahead make my day.
This would be awesome. I'd like to see holosun move into the competition optic market, and the ACSS without that Chevron (just a big 8 or 10moa dot) would be fantastic!
If you're just sitting still and talking try turning off auto focus and use manual focus so your face is in focus. You can use a smaller aperture, bigger f-stop #, so if you hold a gun up it can still be in the range of focus.
I own an oldschool C-More (8moa,) and a green 507 acss and I have also shot a large variety of different dots on pistols and revolvers. Personally the old C-More is leagues above everything else in terms of dot clarity, but the other factors are mediocre at best compared to modern dots. The Vulcan is a very good idea, but the clarity of the dot needs some cleaning up still. Nonetheless it is my optic of choice for competition now, since unlike you folks we do have to shoot at 50 yards. And the Chevron is fantastic for that. I also really like the aimpoint acro is you are looking for a no nonsense optic. Very clear dot and I love 0.5moa adjustments for bullseye shooting.
I wear mostly 5.11 shorts with their hidden mag pockets and small pocket knife pocket(s) on the front make them low-vis cargo shorts. It is just like the cx-5 I drive being called a crossover when we all know it is just a station wagon that is less vertically challenged. I don't have anything meaningful to add on the sights, I told myself I would get a nice comp dot when my Romeo 1 dies that came mounted on my p226saoRx but at this point I think the battery cap is the only thing at is showing issues after 4 years and I'm not sure how many thousands of rounds (at least 5 on that gun).
I am the same. The wider window makes it easier to find when switching to weak hand only. On your recommendation I went with a five MOA SRO, great optic but I do wish it was slightly wider.
You right on astigmatism, main reason I prefer 3 moa DPP. Although 5 moa on BulOptics works well too for me. 6 moa Sig Max I used to have was way too big for me. I guess it depends on actual dot clarity as well
I prefer my 6 MOA Romeo 3 Max to my SRO 5 MOA or RTS2 6 MOA Lens, window , dot clarity, brightness settings , battery tray, Motac , controls and overall ease of use are better on the Sig IMO. 7000+ rounds with no issues so far. Most guys I know prefer the Romeo 3’s . The Trijicon and Cmore still work very well obviously. All good stuff; definitely my 3 top choices for competition pistol rigs. 6 MOA Is def the smallest dot size I’d use as well .
Thinking about getting the max, does it mount directly to the 320 slide or needs a plate? The xl may be the sig optic that needs a plate? Appreciate it if you know
@@alursino3213 I think the 320Max only mounts directly to the 320Max slide. I think the other 320s have a different cut. Like either a delta point pro or Sig Romeo1pro cut, maybe rmr. You can call and ask Sig customer service.
Great video and I agree the RTS2 is a great sight and C-More is an even better company to deal with. I have RTS2 sights in 6,8,10 and 12 moa and like them all, but my favorite is the 12 moa. I use it for Steel Challenge and, to my eyes, also affected by astigmatism, it does the best for looking like a round dot. I think 12 might be a bit too big for USPSA use and that's one of the reasons why I have so many different dots. Keep up the good work, I really enjoy your videos.
SRO’s on Canik CO guns and zero malfunctions as of yet. Had (5) Sig Romeo’s needing warranty replacement. (2) Romeo 1’s and (3) 3XL’s. 3XL’s on my open gun. RTS2 was least reliable for me.
I like my 6MOA CMores, but I have a DPP and an SRP at 2MOA and I like them the same or better. I just use what I have and train well, it all seems to work out. I’m one of those former action guy dudebros, and Trijicon has always made a product I trust. I do like the dot as the aiming reference. The 32 MOA rings on pistol optics are totally obnoxious to me, in so far as it makes me focus on the dot, not the target. If a optic has a really busy view with lots of stuff in the way, I really don’t care for it.
I wish Sig would use their circle dot technology to give us a 2-3 moa dot with an optional 10 moa circle, that way one could have both? BTW, the Romeo 3 Max is going to the Deltapoint Pro footprint the end of this month(July 2024). Cheers, Tony
I've tried RMR , SRO , DPP , and 507C-X2-ACSS. Out of those I honestly shoot the ACSS the best . I'm noticeably faster with the and more accurate with the ACSS . I've never looked into why I'm better with ACSS. I freaking love the RMR but hate the battery placement . I mainly use RMR on my EDC . I'm finally look for a replacement and more than likely gonna 507C-X2-ACSS route since I've ready vetted the optic. I have little over 6k rounds on my X5 LEGION since the 507C-X2-ACSS has been mounted . I actually have not even turned the optic on once since I've owned it because it's in Auto mode and I'm usually shooting in good lighting conditions.
A thought on Dot sizes for competition (and I hope I'm not repeating what someone else has written below). I'd probably like the 10 MOA dot, but have always gone with 8 MOA dots because the longest shot I've ever made with a handgun in competition was 50-yards. To tighten the thumbscrews, they had the sides of the target covered with no-shoots, leaving a 4" center hit-zone. The 8 MOA dot is approximately a 4" dot at 50-yards, so as long as it's sighted in properly, it was no problem to get good, quick hits at that range. I could be wrong, but I worry that the overlap from the 10 MOA dot might add an unsure element to that formula. Have a great day, folks!
@@chltmdwp It's okay. I do like that is almost between the size of an RTS 2 and DPP window but bigger because of the squared off. It has a little warping around the edges and so EOTECH reached out to me to send it back for a once over. I like it so far. It sits low enough where I had to take off my front sight post on my CZ Shadow 2
Extremely helpful comment on an extremely helpful review, thanks guys. My pissant addition to this is the same experience with the SRO (have owned four) battery doors stripping out easily, but otherwise am a fan of Trijicon (currently running an RMR but in the market for a bigger dot). And a Romeo 1pro front lens on a p226 Legion SAO getting consistently smoked after a dozen rounds (due to the LCI? Where it mounts? Dunno, gave up on it).
I prefer 2 moa, but I have astigmatism, I do like the sro, deltapoint, and holosun with the large outer circle. I do have older chores on my czheckmate and tangfolio.
Most current C-More RTS2, V5 in 8 or 10 MOA is by far best value and most underrated competition red dot on the market my opinion. With Limited optics coming up this could be dot of choice over 5 MOA SRO and 6 MOA Romeo3Max. Curious how it shakes out. Thanks for video!
I have wondered if a company could specialize in striker fired options and get the electronics behind the pistol…like where the plate is… thus lowering the dot to virtually on the bore axis.
Leupold makes a DeltaPoint Micro, which houses the battery at the rear of the slide. The problem is if the sight is lowered too much, the usable window area also shrinks and the dot almost becomes an iron sight. At that point, you can look at those sights like Sig puts on their SAS models.
If you do enough dry fire practice to even be moderately competitive the window size isn't all that important. I just upgraded by open gun's slide ride with a RTS2 and don't feel the smaller window cost me anything.
I have Trijicon SROs on my pistols and I love the 2.5 🤷♂️ The smaller pinpoint dot works better for me. And I’ve never owned cargo shorts or pants; they are frankly a terrible sartorial choice for adults.
Don't over think it. The SRO has a well earned track record for reliability and has generally high marks overall. I wouldn't hate it if they fixed the ghost dot issue though.
Sitting over here with my Holosun I got second hand for almost $200... I will stand by it cause I went to a comp about an hour away and my battery had died. solar failsafe saved the trip. yeah it doesn't have that big of a window, but that one feature I cannot live without after that.
For Idpa the last couple years I’ve ran a Holosun 507C. Recently switched to a Swampfox Justice. No problems with either one. I wish either of these companies would come out with a round 30mm SRO competitor. I liked the Holosun ring & dot at first like training wheels, but eventually switched to just the 2moa dot. I really like the sharp 3moa Swampfox dot the best so far.
Nice review- take a look on the shield rmsx xl close to 60% price of the SRO and 40 % on the Max. Wide Clear window ( I think it’s wider than max also ) but not water proof - and batteries from the bottom -
I didn't wanna love the sro but it's the only option for me right now. I shoot with a lot of ppl at USPSA matches and I've talked to many that had problems with the sig Romeo 3 variants. Way more than all other options combined. The sros seem to run flawless so I just stopped trying to find a better mousetrap
I think the ACSS reticle is the best. However I do agree that it could be improved on. I would prefer a dot over a chevron. I use it in my duty gun and I have competed with it and it’s hard to beat for most applications.
for duty - i think the ACSS makes sense - it allows a smaller window to perform like a bigger one - but the chevron on a pistol is dumb. We don't shoot far enough out to get benefit from a chevron.
Dot tech has progressed a ton, back before the SRO most were shit by todays standards aside from defensive like the original RMR…SRO was a game changer when released but others caught up, or should i say not on paper but in physical durability and build quality. Ive still seen a ton of optics go down from sig, c-more (rts…non rail massive plastic fantastic which are bulletproof) and god help the Vortex shooters. But its a ton better now than years back. Dot size to me is variable on brand, dot shape/brightness, setting on the optic, and lighting in the current environment. Meaning, i feel my SRO can be a big dot or a small dot depending how bright the sunlight is and how high i have the dot turned up and every brand has their own variable in this. Ive never felt the same specs from different brands were all truly equal. Have to test personally.
BDE these vids are so helpful, and yes pink short shorts, a “Winnie the Pew” shirt, and my Warrior Poet hat for my full dad vibe competition uniform … but I draw the line at the Hoka!
I'm surprised (and disappointed) you didn't include the Alpha3 in this shootout. I only know of it because of you, but have 3 of them on my comp guns. 1 Romeo3Max, and an SRO on a range gun. Had issues with all so far expect the R3Max, but I also have by far the fewest rounds through that, and based on others experience, I fully expect to have to warranty that at some point.
No love for the FTP despite the previous review and its undeniable Big Dot Energy. The major problem with the FTP is that the 10 MOA is never in stock and you have to settle for the 8 MOA.
@@TheHumbleMarksman I really appreciate the advice , your a great presenter , not selling every gun that comes along and I appreciate that. I guess I need to decide if I m going to compete with one vs carry. Do you carry aN optic When CC? If you don’t mind? If not I understand it’s OPSEC
I just bought the 1 MOA SRO because surprisingly it was the cheapest out of the three MOAs at the time of the purchase. Will I have a buyer's remorse? I'm very used to 3.25 MOA on my RMRs.
How do you think these compare with the FTP alpha 3? It'd be interesting to hear your thoughts on a head to head comparison between the RTS2 and the alpha 3
The alpha 3 is basically an RTS2 with a slightly longer housing and square window. I had a mount that didn’t work for it - but my match gun still uses an Alpha 3 - my practice gun has the R3M because of the wider range of adjustment makes the dot better for indoor and dryfire stuff
I'd really like to hear more about each dot's low sun angle performance. Glare and ghost dots are a major concern with this type of optic especially at early morning stages at matches. I know my SROs are fairly susceptible to getting double dots, etc in low angle sun. I'd like to know how the others perform.
What mounting plate are you using for the rts2 with the beretta. They have cmore plate on beretta wesite, but the review says there is an issue with the rts2
So far my cmore is tied with the delta point pro for longevity. The dpp set the bar very high at 1 match. The cmore did survive yesterdays match flawlessly.
4:33 What do you think can be done to improve the Holosun ACSS? I have one, currently using it for dry fire practice. IMO it’s the best one overall I’ve seen yet. Wish Holosun would make ACSS standard on all of their products.
The window and housing need to be improved. I don’t want to constrain a recommendation based on current tech but something new. The chevron reticle probably isn’t the way
Always enjoy and learning from your well produced content ! Thinking about putting the SRO on mty Walther Q4 SF . Any issues you are aware of as far as ejected brass causing jams with this set-up ?
So, I’m not a dot guy yet. But have a couple pistols with mos. What about holosun? I assume since they didn’t make an appearance, they aren’t good? Yes, no, maybe?
What about a Romeo 1 for USPSA? I’m a college kid so it’s cheaper, and mounts right to the X5 legion I’m planning on buying, so no added cost in milling
Awesome channel, I know this vid has been out for a while but if you happen to see this, will the max mount directly to the specter comp 320? Much appreciated.
Thanks so much for your reply, frankly the dpps I own have always performed well. Same with the sro for that matter. 2 options that always work. Thanks again for the help!
Is there no chance that running anything other than an SRO on a CZ slide that the optic will survive? I'm going to have my slide milled for CO, and I don't want to regret my decision.
But how many rounds do these things last? That's the real question for me. Personally, for slide ride dots, the only 3 brands I would consider are aimpoint, holosun, trijicon.
Great video, thank you. So new to comp shooting, getting used to my CZ Shadow 2 OR. You mentioned hard on optics? You would recommend I stick with SRO it sounds like? Thanks for your time. PS still using irons at this time, have not invested yet.
Hi there got a Glock 17 fires one round but shell casing does not leave barrel n does not eject. any help was thinking about getting a 11 or 14 lb recoil spring. Any suggestions?
@@TheHumbleMarksman I used the term set screw instead of lock screw or adjustment lock - that may have thrown off the discussion. The adjustment lock screw on the C-More RTS2 V5 is showing in your video at about 6:12 and a few other places. The SIG Romeo3 Max and FTP sights don't have the adjustment lock. Wish the RTS2 V5 didn't have that lock screw.
David, do you have any experience with your irons zero being different from how your dot zeroes? Like your irons are completely centered in their dovetails properly, but your dot zero looks like it's to the right or left, i.e. not centered on top of the front sight blade. I try to be as precise as possible when mounting my dots and I don't know if I'm micro-getting-it-wrong and have the optic cocked to one side. It's more of an annoyance more than anything... I hope. Do you know what I'm talking about? Do any of your gats zero like this?
That's a relief. Yeah, my 92, not known to have always perfectly centered barrels, zeroes off to the right. My PDP zeroes quite a bit to the left, and I'm pretty sure I installed the dot and plate perfectly centered. Anyway, thanks man
Send me a dot to put on my canik it breaks my heart I exploded my spine right after buying my canik and can't afford to buy a reflex at any price point been fighting disability for over 2 years
I’ve had a lot of good luck with the Sig Romeo5 cheap-o 2MOA red dots. I run them on AR’s and AK’s, and they stayed zeroed, don’t eat batteries like crazy, and they can handle being banged around. Good enough for me on a Dad budget.
How do you feel about circle dots for competition ? I love the 32moa circle 2moa dot combo on my Holosun 508T and EPS . Its so fast for my eyes to just be able to bracket the target at close range like a rifle ghost ring sight . To me its the best of both world because if i wanna be a pistol sniper like the dorks who prefer the 2moa dot on a SRO i can just focus on the dot and ignore the ring
Maybe it's a quirk of my eyestigmatism, but I find larger dot sizes to be much cleaner around the edges at least. A 2 moa dot will bloom with a little comet tail but a 6 moa dot is a clean circle.
I have recently found this to be the case with me. The 6.5 moa dot in my trijicon RMR has really been the cleanest dot I've ever seen. Like an actual dot. 2-3 moa dots look like tally marks to my eyes.
Same. Started with a Holosun 507C, but then went to a 407K. Huge improvement. Might be because the larger size allows me to see it well at lower settings causing it not to bloom as badly. Interestingly a green 2 MOA dot (on my 509T) looks better than a red 2MOA. Similarly I think it’s because I can see the green dot the better at lower brightness settings. I really want to try an 8 or 10 MOA now.
I have the same issue. I have an SRO with a 1 moa red dot . With my astigmatism the bloom makes it look like a 6 moa dot if I went with a 10 moa it would fill the entire window lol
@@googlechicken😂 yup
I’m sorry, but they will take my cargo shorts FROM MY COLD DEAD HANDS
Agreed!!
C-More also has interchangeable reticle size modules. You can swap in anywhere from 2-16 MOA on a single optic.
Lowly USPSA, C Class CO shooter here (almost B). I love my C-More RTS2B V5 8-MOA on my Rival. It's a perfect combo for me. Came from a G17 and Burris FF3 3-MOA so both gun and optic are a huge upgrade for my 51 year old eyes.
Just shot a Rival today and was amazed at how accurate it is. I'm definitely going to get one for USPSA CO matches. What optic plate fits the RTS2B on your Rival?
Great review! No red dot sight is perfect for everyone and there is a lot of personal preference and compromise when selecting a RDS, especially with the few offerings available today in the larger (8-10 MOA) dots.
I have all of these dots: 5 MOA SRO, 6 MOA SIG Romeo3 Max, 10 MOA C-More RTS2 V5 and concur with your observations. I do like and shoot my 6 MOA Romeo3 Max dots very well, but do wish that SIG would have 8 and 10 MOA dot offerings. That would be the ultimate in dot options for USPSA for me.
The SRO has the glare problem with bright oncoming light (early and late day sun) and some people perceive a second dot which can be confusing. The double dot phenomenon can be overcome with extreme target focus and experience. I've heard a lot of guys cursing their SROs in early morning and late afternoon stages.
Might be good to also compare the FTP Alpha 3 against this set of dot sights. The Alpha 3 is just a bit more cost than the RTS2 V5 and comes in 6 and 8 MOA standard and occasionally has a 10 MOA special order. The Alpha 3 has a slightly better warranty (30 months) than the RTS2 V5 (12 months) and a tad longer body which may not fit some RDS cuts or plates.
I believe the SIG Romeo3 Max, FTP Alpha 3, and C-More RTS2 are built in the same factory under slightly different specs and the SIG Romeo3 Max has the best warranty of 5 years, but also costs the most.
I feel like 8-10 MOA for a dot is definitely in the right neighborhood for USPSA. My preference is leaning more toward 8 MOA with 10 MOA a close second choice for Carry Optics in USPSA. It can be a tough call to optimize dot size choice satisfying needs of both fast dot acquisition (really large dot) for close/intermediate range targets and having too large of a dot for precision shots at distances beyond 30 yards or so - which really are not that often. Maybe get an 8 MOA dot for one gun and a 10 MOA dot on your other identical gun and decide after your walkthrough before the match starts. Choose the bigger dot for a hoser match and slightly smaller dot for a match having longer steel and tough partials at distance.
I started life in USPSA CO several years ago using the Trijicon RMR RM07 6.5 MOA with over 80k rounds in that platform and that has been my benchmark. Loved that dot for USPSA when there weren't as many good options, just wish the RMR glass was bigger. Great choice for EDC.
I firmly believe that to be really invested in the CO Division of the USPSA game one really needs two identical guns and three dots in rotation to cover the bases for when, not if, a dot and/or a gun fails.
What timing. My low-mileage SRO died (yes, on a CZ Shadow) while dryfiring on Friday. Started turning off from the slide racking forward. At least it did it then rather than waiting for Saturday's match. Great video yet again. I find the great dot argument amusing and eternal because it is a matter of individual eyesight and preference. I am an 8 MOA guy. I "recognize" a larger dot faster and issues with accuracy are problems of the end user, not the dot. :-)
Great information!
Great video. Hope this pushes dot makers to come out with more large window large dot options. Hey Holosun large window ACSS but with the ⭕️ 407co 8moa dot. Go ahead make my day.
This would be awesome. I'd like to see holosun move into the competition optic market, and the ACSS without that Chevron (just a big 8 or 10moa dot) would be fantastic!
Great video, I agree with your comments completely since I have used all 3 dots
If you're just sitting still and talking try turning off auto focus and use manual focus so your face is in focus. You can use a smaller aperture, bigger f-stop #, so if you hold a gun up it can still be in the range of focus.
I will give it a try
I own an oldschool C-More (8moa,) and a green 507 acss and I have also shot a large variety of different dots on pistols and revolvers.
Personally the old C-More is leagues above everything else in terms of dot clarity, but the other factors are mediocre at best compared to modern dots. The Vulcan is a very good idea, but the clarity of the dot needs some cleaning up still. Nonetheless it is my optic of choice for competition now, since unlike you folks we do have to shoot at 50 yards. And the Chevron is fantastic for that.
I also really like the aimpoint acro is you are looking for a no nonsense optic. Very clear dot and I love 0.5moa adjustments for bullseye shooting.
I wear mostly 5.11 shorts with their hidden mag pockets and small pocket knife pocket(s) on the front make them low-vis cargo shorts. It is just like the cx-5 I drive being called a crossover when we all know it is just a station wagon that is less vertically challenged.
I don't have anything meaningful to add on the sights, I told myself I would get a nice comp dot when my Romeo 1 dies that came mounted on my p226saoRx but at this point I think the battery cap is the only thing at is showing issues after 4 years and I'm not sure how many thousands of rounds (at least 5 on that gun).
I really like my Leupold Delta Pro Point on my competition pistol. I love the huge window!
Wow! Gonna have to watch again and take notes.
I put lots of miles on the legs, so showing off, or hauling everything is good for me.
I am the same. The wider window makes it easier to find when switching to weak hand only. On your recommendation I went with a five MOA SRO, great optic but I do wish it was slightly wider.
You right on astigmatism, main reason I prefer 3 moa DPP. Although 5 moa on BulOptics works well too for me. 6 moa Sig Max I used to have was way too big for me. I guess it depends on actual dot clarity as well
I prefer my 6 MOA Romeo 3 Max to my SRO 5 MOA or RTS2 6 MOA Lens, window , dot clarity, brightness settings , battery tray, Motac , controls and overall ease of use are better on the Sig IMO. 7000+ rounds with no issues so far. Most guys I know prefer the Romeo 3’s . The Trijicon and Cmore still work very well obviously. All good stuff; definitely my 3 top choices for competition pistol rigs. 6 MOA Is def the smallest dot size I’d use as well
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I like my Romeo3 max. I think the price is a little steep though, although I've had no issues with it and it's been great
Thinking about getting the max, does it mount directly to the 320 slide or needs a plate? The xl may be the sig optic that needs a plate? Appreciate it if you know
@@alursino3213 I think the 320Max only mounts directly to the 320Max slide. I think the other 320s have a different cut. Like either a delta point pro or Sig Romeo1pro cut, maybe rmr. You can call and ask Sig customer service.
How does it seem durability wise? Would it be dead if dropped once?
@@musicman1eanda I have no idea. I'm def not going to drop it to test it though
Great video and I agree the RTS2 is a great sight and C-More is an even better company to deal with. I have RTS2 sights in 6,8,10 and 12 moa and like them all, but my favorite is the 12 moa. I use it for Steel Challenge and, to my eyes, also affected by astigmatism, it does the best for looking like a round dot. I think 12 might be a bit too big for USPSA use and that's one of the reasons why I have so many different dots. Keep up the good work, I really enjoy your videos.
For a guy (like me) who dry fires daily for an hour how long should I expect the battery to last in the RTS2? Thanks!
SRO’s on Canik CO guns and zero malfunctions as of yet.
Had (5) Sig Romeo’s needing warranty replacement. (2) Romeo 1’s and (3) 3XL’s. 3XL’s on my open gun.
RTS2 was least reliable for me.
I like my 6MOA CMores, but I have a DPP and an SRP at 2MOA and I like them the same or better.
I just use what I have and train well, it all seems to work out.
I’m one of those former action guy dudebros, and Trijicon has always made a product I trust.
I do like the dot as the aiming reference. The 32 MOA rings on pistol optics are totally obnoxious to me, in so far as it makes me focus on the dot, not the target. If a optic has a really busy view with lots of stuff in the way, I really don’t care for it.
I wish Sig would use their circle dot technology to give us a 2-3 moa dot with an optional 10 moa circle, that way one could have both?
BTW, the Romeo 3 Max is going to the Deltapoint Pro footprint the end of this month(July 2024).
Cheers, Tony
Sweet! Just looked for a video like this!
I would love to see you do a video on installing/replacing a dot and sighting it in.
Thank you 😊
I've tried RMR , SRO , DPP , and 507C-X2-ACSS. Out of those I honestly shoot the ACSS the best . I'm noticeably faster with the and more accurate with the ACSS . I've never looked into why I'm better with ACSS.
I freaking love the RMR but hate the battery placement . I mainly use RMR on my EDC . I'm finally look for a replacement and more than likely gonna 507C-X2-ACSS route since I've ready vetted the optic. I have little over 6k rounds on my X5 LEGION since the 507C-X2-ACSS has been mounted . I actually have not even turned the optic on once since I've owned it because it's in Auto mode and I'm usually shooting in good lighting conditions.
A thought on Dot sizes for competition (and I hope I'm not repeating what someone else has written below). I'd probably like the 10 MOA dot, but have always gone with 8 MOA dots because the longest shot I've ever made with a handgun in competition was 50-yards. To tighten the thumbscrews, they had the sides of the target covered with no-shoots, leaving a 4" center hit-zone. The 8 MOA dot is approximately a 4" dot at 50-yards, so as long as it's sighted in properly, it was no problem to get good, quick hits at that range. I could be wrong, but I worry that the overlap from the 10 MOA dot might add an unsure element to that formula.
Have a great day, folks!
I like the circle dot reticle on the Holosun optics.
Where's the Holosun 507comp? I'll take it over all those in the video! 💯💯💯
Awesome!! I just got the Max today!
i'm playing with the EOTECH EFLX. DPP footprint, slightly smaller glass than DPP, sits .2 inches lower and it is lighter. so far so good.
How do you like the EFLX? I wanted one but never pulled a trigger.
@@chltmdwp It's okay. I do like that is almost between the size of an RTS 2 and DPP window but bigger because of the squared off. It has a little warping around the edges and so EOTECH reached out to me to send it back for a once over. I like it so far. It sits low enough where I had to take off my front sight post on my CZ Shadow 2
Extremely helpful comment on an extremely helpful review, thanks guys.
My pissant addition to this is the same experience with the SRO (have owned four) battery doors stripping out easily, but otherwise am a fan of Trijicon (currently running an RMR but in the market for a bigger dot). And a Romeo 1pro front lens on a p226 Legion SAO getting consistently smoked after a dozen rounds (due to the LCI? Where it mounts? Dunno, gave up on it).
Cool video thanks.
I saw a race gun with a Holosun 510C around 2019 when I visited a gun store in Las Vegas.
Those stopped being popular for whatever reason
JJ Ragazza uses RTS2 6moa optic on his Beretta. Since it's the cheapest, sounds good enough for me.
I prefer 2 moa, but I have astigmatism, I do like the sro, deltapoint, and holosun with the large outer circle. I do have older chores on my czheckmate and tangfolio.
Most current C-More RTS2, V5 in 8 or 10 MOA is by far best value and most underrated competition red dot on the market my opinion. With Limited optics coming up this could be dot of choice over 5 MOA SRO and 6 MOA Romeo3Max. Curious how it shakes out. Thanks for video!
CMore is the best for sure. I've tried em all..
I have wondered if a company could specialize in striker fired options and get the electronics behind the pistol…like where the plate is… thus lowering the dot to virtually on the bore axis.
Leupold makes a DeltaPoint Micro, which houses the battery at the rear of the slide. The problem is if the sight is lowered too much, the usable window area also shrinks and the dot almost becomes an iron sight. At that point, you can look at those sights like Sig puts on their SAS models.
If you do enough dry fire practice to even be moderately competitive the window size isn't all that important. I just upgraded by open gun's slide ride with a RTS2 and don't feel the smaller window cost me anything.
Now shoot a support hand only stage that requires movement
@@TheHumbleMarksman luckily I have the sense to only shoot steel challenge :)
Great review!
I have Trijicon SROs on my pistols and I love the 2.5 🤷♂️ The smaller pinpoint dot works better for me. And I’ve never owned cargo shorts or pants; they are frankly a terrible sartorial choice for adults.
I love them, but admit that they are ugly. But they sure are useful for carrying my edc gear. Have a great day.
Well that sucks. Here, I am all ready to get a 5 MOA SRO, and now I gotta rethink stuff.
Don't over think it. The SRO has a well earned track record for reliability and has generally high marks overall. I wouldn't hate it if they fixed the ghost dot issue though.
Exactly 😂
Sitting over here with my Holosun I got second hand for almost $200... I will stand by it cause I went to a comp about an hour away and my battery had died. solar failsafe saved the trip. yeah it doesn't have that big of a window, but that one feature I cannot live without after that.
The trick there is change your batteries
@@TheHumbleMarksman I refuse, solar or bust
For Idpa the last couple years I’ve ran a Holosun 507C. Recently switched to a Swampfox Justice. No problems with either one. I wish either of these companies would come out with a round 30mm SRO competitor. I liked the Holosun ring & dot at first like training wheels, but eventually switched to just the 2moa dot. I really like the sharp 3moa Swampfox dot the best so far.
I have a massive astigmatism and the only dot I've seen that I can use is a trijicon rmr dual illuminated 9 moa amber dot.
Delta point should have been in this competition in my opinion. Still great video and informative. Ty
I only have a Deltapoint Pro 😞
Nice review- take a look on the shield rmsx xl close to 60% price of the SRO and 40 % on the Max. Wide Clear window ( I think it’s wider than max also ) but not water proof - and batteries from the bottom -
I still like shoot irons but got my first optic in 12/22
I didn't wanna love the sro but it's the only option for me right now. I shoot with a lot of ppl at USPSA matches and I've talked to many that had problems with the sig Romeo 3 variants. Way more than all other options combined. The sros seem to run flawless so I just stopped trying to find a better mousetrap
should check out the Shield sight RMS XL
I think the ACSS reticle is the best. However I do agree that it could be improved on. I would prefer a dot over a chevron. I use it in my duty gun and I have competed with it and it’s hard to beat for most applications.
Yeah since his channel is 99% focused on competition that's why he's comparing mostly optics that are tailored for competition
for duty - i think the ACSS makes sense - it allows a smaller window to perform like a bigger one - but the chevron on a pistol is dumb. We don't shoot far enough out to get benefit from a chevron.
Dot tech has progressed a ton, back before the SRO most were shit by todays standards aside from defensive like the original RMR…SRO was a game changer when released but others caught up, or should i say not on paper but in physical durability and build quality. Ive still seen a ton of optics go down from sig, c-more (rts…non rail massive plastic fantastic which are bulletproof) and god help the Vortex shooters. But its a ton better now than years back.
Dot size to me is variable on brand, dot shape/brightness, setting on the optic, and lighting in the current environment. Meaning, i feel my SRO can be a big dot or a small dot depending how bright the sunlight is and how high i have the dot turned up and every brand has their own variable in this. Ive never felt the same specs from different brands were all truly equal. Have to test personally.
BDE these vids are so helpful, and yes pink short shorts, a “Winnie the Pew” shirt, and my Warrior Poet hat for my full dad vibe competition uniform … but I draw the line at the Hoka!
Strong
Are your New Balances white/blue or full black?
I'm surprised (and disappointed) you didn't include the Alpha3 in this shootout. I only know of it because of you, but have 3 of them on my comp guns. 1 Romeo3Max, and an SRO on a range gun. Had issues with all so far expect the R3Max, but I also have by far the fewest rounds through that, and based on others experience, I fully expect to have to warranty that at some point.
No love for the FTP despite the previous review and its undeniable Big Dot Energy. The major problem with the FTP is that the 10 MOA is never in stock and you have to settle for the 8 MOA.
I run a 6 moa FTP on my open gun. It’s an awesome optic!
They didn't pay well enough.
Due to the long optic body it’s tough to get on a slide
I still have an FTP on an open gun this was more thru the lens of a slide ride gun
🔴
How has the RTS been when facing into a late afternoon sun? Gave the SRO and Max a hell of a time for me. Nothing blue tape canf fux but still
Hey, David.
Any thoughts on the new Holosun Competition?
This video has so much Big Dot Energy I had to take a break halfway through.
Great video. Still don’t know what I want to try for IDPA. I am leaning towards an enclosed ones.
For sport those aren’t awesome
@@TheHumbleMarksman I really appreciate the advice , your a great presenter , not selling every gun that comes along and I appreciate that. I guess I need to decide if I m going to compete with one vs carry. Do you carry aN optic When CC? If you don’t mind? If not I understand it’s OPSEC
Can you review your shield max. Could you also include were you purchased it from.
I bought it from midway
I need something for a Walther Q4… something better than the HS 507c2.
I just bought the 1 MOA SRO because surprisingly it was the cheapest out of the three MOAs at the time of the purchase. Will I have a buyer's remorse? I'm very used to 3.25 MOA on my RMRs.
How do you think these compare with the FTP alpha 3? It'd be interesting to hear your thoughts on a head to head comparison between the RTS2 and the alpha 3
The alpha 3 is basically an RTS2 with a slightly longer housing and square window. I had a mount that didn’t work for it - but my match gun still uses an Alpha 3 - my practice gun has the R3M because of the wider range of adjustment makes the dot better for indoor and dryfire stuff
I'd really like to hear more about each dot's low sun angle performance. Glare and ghost dots are a major concern with this type of optic especially at early morning stages at matches. I know my SROs are fairly susceptible to getting double dots, etc in low angle sun. I'd like to know how the others perform.
The other ones don’t get it at all like the SRO - not observable on either besides faint obviously not a dot artifacts
@@TheHumbleMarksman Thanks for the follow up. That’s good to know!
What mounting plate are you using for the rts2 with the beretta. They have cmore plate on beretta wesite, but the review says there is an issue with the rts2
So far my cmore is tied with the delta point pro for longevity. The dpp set the bar very high at 1 match. The cmore did survive yesterdays match flawlessly.
Can you mount the C-More to the LTT? Thank you for all the information you provide.
They have plates for a bunch of sights now - not sure that C-More is one tho
Speaking of reticles, is the 8 moa circle in Holosun pistol dots usable similarly to an 8 moa dot?
4:33 What do you think can be done to improve the Holosun ACSS? I have one, currently using it for dry fire practice. IMO it’s the best one overall I’ve seen yet. Wish Holosun would make ACSS standard on all of their products.
The window and housing need to be improved. I don’t want to constrain a recommendation based on current tech but something new. The chevron reticle probably isn’t the way
RTS2 or Alpha3? They seem so similar...
The sro is better because it’s the one I have
Always enjoy and learning from your well produced content !
Thinking about putting the SRO on mty Walther Q4 SF . Any issues you are aware of as far as ejected brass causing jams with this set-up ?
a friend had good success with SROs on his Q5s - I suspect they will be OK!
Do you think the 10 moa would work as a 45 degree sight on an ar 15 with a 1 x6 scope ?
On an AR I would probably want a 2-3 MOA sight but you could use a 10. About 50 yards is where the dot size starts becoming an issue
What about 3XL?
NO !!!
VIVA LA CARGO SHORTS !!!
How's the battery life on the rts2v5?
So, I’m not a dot guy yet. But have a couple pistols with mos.
What about holosun? I assume since they didn’t make an appearance, they aren’t good?
Yes, no, maybe?
They are ok for duty / CCW- bigger glass is better for competition and they are insistent upon small dots
What about a Romeo 1 for USPSA? I’m a college kid so it’s cheaper, and mounts right to the X5 legion I’m planning on buying, so no added cost in milling
I like them for DPP footprints
Does dots size have any effect on your stigmatism‘s? Or is it purely the manufacture?
Combo of glass emitter ambient light and dot intensity
Awesome channel, I know this vid has been out for a while but if you happen to see this, will the max mount directly to the specter comp 320? Much appreciated.
No - the spectre comp is RMR/DPP cut
Thanks so much for your reply, frankly the dpps I own have always performed well. Same with the sro for that matter. 2 options that always work.
Thanks again for the help!
Is there no chance that running anything other than an SRO on a CZ slide that the optic will survive? I'm going to have my slide milled for CO, and I don't want to regret my decision.
Buddy of mine is running a Romeo 3 xl and I’m having a plate for my Romeo max, he’s go a year threw it and no issues yet
But how many rounds do these things last? That's the real question for me.
Personally, for slide ride dots, the only 3 brands I would consider are aimpoint, holosun, trijicon.
Great video, thank you. So new to comp shooting, getting used to my CZ Shadow 2 OR. You mentioned hard on optics? You would recommend I stick with SRO it sounds like? Thanks for your time. PS still using irons at this time, have not invested yet.
Hi there got a Glock 17 fires one round but shell casing does not leave barrel n does not eject. any help was thinking about getting a 11 or 14 lb recoil spring. Any suggestions?
If it’s stuck in the barrel it’s your extractor probably
@@TheHumbleMarksman thank you I jus put a new ejector in it too now ima get a new extractor for it
What’s the battery life on the cmore?
Not amazing. 600-1000 - it is a pure sporting optic
@@TheHumbleMarksman Many thanks. Your videos are quite helpful. Keep it up!
Do you really have to lock the adjustments with the CMore? I thought we were past this?
Yes. I nuked one recently bcz the set screw backed out.
Uhh if you do - I didn’t on these two
@@TheHumbleMarksman I used the term set screw instead of lock screw or adjustment lock - that may have thrown off the discussion. The adjustment lock screw on the C-More RTS2 V5 is showing in your video at about 6:12 and a few other places.
The SIG Romeo3 Max and FTP sights don't have the adjustment lock. Wish the RTS2 V5 didn't have that lock screw.
I'd like to hear your opinion of the mecanik mo2 as it is competition size and often under $200
Dads need to go back to their skating roots and wear those 80’s skateboard gym shorts
I have some BDE but its your joke 😆. Honestly i laugh everytime i hesr it
Bde
David, I like your channel. I like your content. But you're dead wrong on this. *Short-shorts will never replace cargo shorts in my wardrobe.*
David, do you have any experience with your irons zero being different from how your dot zeroes? Like your irons are completely centered in their dovetails properly, but your dot zero looks like it's to the right or left, i.e. not centered on top of the front sight blade.
I try to be as precise as possible when mounting my dots and I don't know if I'm micro-getting-it-wrong and have the optic cocked to one side. It's more of an annoyance more than anything... I hope. Do you know what I'm talking about? Do any of your gats zero like this?
Yes - most of them. Your irons aren’t as precise as you think - even if they are centered in the slide the barrel may be slightly off center
That's a relief. Yeah, my 92, not known to have always perfectly centered barrels, zeroes off to the right. My PDP zeroes quite a bit to the left, and I'm pretty sure I installed the dot and plate perfectly centered. Anyway, thanks man
Send me a dot to put on my canik it breaks my heart I exploded my spine right after buying my canik and can't afford to buy a reflex at any price point been fighting disability for over 2 years
Also, please do not make short shorts more popular. James Reeves will take the credit, and his ego really does not need to get any bigger.
Sig red dots suck!
Eh I disagree
I’ve had a lot of good luck with the Sig Romeo5 cheap-o 2MOA red dots.
I run them on AR’s and AK’s, and they stayed zeroed, don’t eat batteries like crazy, and they can handle being banged around. Good enough for me on a Dad budget.
How do you feel about circle dots for competition ? I love the 32moa circle 2moa dot combo on my Holosun 508T and EPS . Its so fast for my eyes to just be able to bracket the target at close range like a rifle ghost ring sight . To me its the best of both world because if i wanna be a pistol sniper like the dorks who prefer the 2moa dot on a SRO i can just focus on the dot and ignore the ring
Where’d you get a eps from boss
@@iamnotacriminal optics planet , %12 of black friday sale so got it for $350
@@RedEyePergogoddamn it