I live in a remote Acadian French community. I personally know 5 people named Leo James Cyr all about my age in this area. Untangling their records 200 years from now will be a challenge.
Genealogy is like putting together a puzzle with an unknown number of pieces and no picture, but it is fun. I try to build on work others have done, but do try to verify their results as well. A lot of people will add someone who is a likely match without doing complete research as you describe in your video. A likely match is a starting point, not the end.
When adding census records, I always add the address they lived at and the occupation. These are great info to check against other documentation to determine if it's the same person. I also always have Google Maps up and am constantly checking the distance between all the places mentioned to make sure that it is feasible for it to be the same person.
Thank you for this video. A couple of years ago I came across an ancestor, who had been merged on FamilySearch with a person of the same name. This merge added a different husband and children with overlapping birth years. Also, added another father to her record. I decided to investigate further since I knew that my ancestor only had one husband, not that many children, etc. so I restored the ‘deleted’ person, so I could see the details. The two women birthdates were two years apart, born in the same town in England, and their fathers’ names were different. I started looking at the baptism records in the area according to the dates of baptism and(luckily) listed dates of birth, along with fathers. Found both girls. Then checked census records, found both families. I then looked for records of the fathers, and found that they were actually brothers, who had daughters born two years apart in the same town, with the same names. I restored everything for the girls, wrote a reason statements describing my research and conclusions, and the two have stayed separate since.
As a retired (well, mostly retired), one of the My Heritage site problems is OTHERS. If I find a person that is, in fact correct. And IF, I do my normal checks, i.e. Name dob, dod, and cities, then I accept, I get a drop down of up to 12 people that I know nothing about. So, when I accept a person, I accept the drop downs unless I subject each to the same filters I list above and that is hard to do because you may not know them or their info. So, I accept, then get a discrepancy report showing a litany of people. The main problem? It is the individuals that post their genealogy and either by wrong procedures, or placements, show someone's son as being his father as well. Be careful, people.
There's a reason why I haven't added my tree to Ancestry. My Great-great Grandfather is shown on other trees as dying in Sussex 1909. One person decided that and other people just copied it into their own trees. I have his death certificate from 1917 Brinkworth, Wiltshire where he lived. I don't want other people benefitting from my hard work
As an amateur genealogist who's been working on my family tree for a couple of decades, this was such a satisfying story, with all the evidence falling into place! When I first got into online genealogy, I started pulling in all the family trees i could find, without really checking the source information, and quickly found my tree had all sorts of errors -- names of people that I knew personally that were misspelled in other people's trees, dates that didn't line up, so many problems! I eventually dumped the whole thing and started over, being MUCH pickier about what I add to my tree. I really enjoy watching your videos -- I learn a lot from you!
As an "amateur genealogist" for my family, I have some perplexing dilemmas. They revolve around documentation. The issue applies more to myself, rather then my wife. I am Asian Indian by background. Record keeping until maybe the early to mid 1900s in India was sloppy at best, if there was even a record. My mother, and my father, both Baby Boomer age, do not have birth certificates. They have a court issued legal affidavit made of their birth. That is how they exist. They have no birth certificate. Add to the fact that everything in India was verbal, slowly, everything is being lost as far as family history, as nothing really was written down. People are aging, and as a result, passing away, taking that knowledge with them. People's memories are sometimes not so great. Additionally, for India, until the arrival of the British, the use of surnames was not a normal thing. This is in addition to the fact that people also sometimes carried the name of the place they were born as part of their name. Also, worth noting, that due to how society was in India at times, the records are sometimes very incomplete for women. Men seem to have more complete records, when it comes to India. Additionally, with this lack of paperwork in the past for India, marriage and census records are sometimes non-existent...not unless someone when to court and had an affidavit done, with two witnesses, noting the existence of a marriage. This was common all the way until the present time, and still is at times. My mother was born Valmiki Srinivasachar Prabhamani. Valmiki was my grandfather's title, as he served the Maharaja of Mysore. Srinivasachar was grandfather's personal name. Prabhamani is my mother's personal name. When she immigrated to the USA in the 1970s, her name ended up being Prabhamani Valmiki Iyer. She "lost" the name Srinivasachar on her US paperwork. My father, born Mahadeva Ananthsubramaniam Lakshmanan, immigrated to the USA in the 1970s, and his name was changed to Laxman Subramaniam Iyer. He did not know his surname until the day he departed India for the USA (surname was not a normal thing). Mahadeva was his grandfather's name. Ananthasubramaniam was his father's name. All of my father's paperwork in India call him M A Laxman or M A Lakshmanan. Also, note the Anglicization of my father's personal name (Lakshamanan -> Laxman). That is what happens when in school, my father went to Catholic school as a kid, when the sisters and father could not pronounce your birth name. They Anglicized it, and you had no say in it. So my father's school records in India, including his university degrees in India, listed his personal name as Laxman (not Lakshmanan...what his parents and his Legal Court Affidavit for his Birth in India says). In the USA, when my father immigrated, his US paperwork lists him as Laxman (and he legally has the name Laxman in the USA). ------------------------------- My wife is from Vietnam. While Vietnam has copious amounts paperwork and bureaucracy, some of the normal social rules on names do not apply. They are different. For instance, when a woman marries in Vietnam, she keeps the surname she is born with. She does not take the name of her husband's family (think Mrs Smith being the wife of Mr Thomas...very rare in Vietnam for Mrs Smith being the wife of Mr Smith). There is no legal mechanism in Vietnam to have your name changed. Also, the fact that it is quite common for all people to carry surnames of both parents makes things interesting, when tracing back. For Vietnam, this makes things very interesting and complicated, especially when people immigrate. Here is a personal example. My wife is a dual citizen (1 US Passport, 1 Vietnam Passport). Her US Passport lists her name as "Thaiduong Copham Iyer". Her Vietnam Passport lists her name as "Co Pham Thai Duong". Iyer is her married name, and legal name in the USA (she acquired that name when she immigrated to the USA and ultimately naturalized as a US Citizen). Regardless, Vietnam still legally refers to her as Co Pham Thai Duong (not Thaiduong Copham Iyer). Additionally, for Vietnam, in the past, prior to 1975, the paperwork for things like marriage and census were sloppy, if they even existed. Best to hope for a court record or an affidavit. Even then, the issue in Vietnam is that many couples just did not have any paperwork, assuming it was done prior to 1975. Today, there are still cases like this among certain people. The marriage is effectively "common law" in Vietnam, although, Vietnam law does not recognize common law (it only recognizes civil law...court law). Hence, today in modern Vietnam, most marriages and related are done as "civil law", with a court record that exists somewhere. ------------------------- So, there are many things that if you are in Asia, it is just a bit more complicated, and a little bit more difficult. Sometimes they are not traceable. Sometimes it is different naming conventions between the USA (West) and Asia. As I was born and raised in the USA, my legal name is Rahul Laxman Iyer. All of my paperwork says that name only. I have all of the "correct" paperwork, including an official birth certificate issued from a place in the USA. If I was born in India, my name would appear quite different. I probably would have had Ananthasubramaniam Lakshmanan Rahul as my name. Then again, I was born and raised in the USA, so my name is Rahul Laxman Iyer. Note, my name has the Anglicization in my middle name.
Try this. A fellow on Ancestry has me in his tree because his great aunt was born 29th Feb 1912 in a city in the Usa. My mother was born in that city 29th Feb 1912. Both women were given name Mary and both had same last name. But my mother married someone with last name Fraga, his relative married someone called Viera. Here is problem he says its same person who married twice. I know my mother didnt marry twice.
I had someone add another wife (similar name) to my grandfather in FamilySearch. They had lived in the same general area. I had to get help from FS to unravel that problem. People really need to use due diligence when working on a tree.
Oh I had people putting my xtimes Grandmother as being in New York and Illinois at the same time! Luckily my Grandmother and Grandfather had land records in Illinois along with her father and brothers doing the same thing. I left them comments as to that fact. I noticed at least 4 people had changed the duplicate families. Why would anyone think a person had children from two husband's thousands of miles away at the same time? I'm glad my Grandmother had a very extensive paper trail.
Here is a situarion I was in and how I proved my theory correct. All of the trees I have seen on Ancestry and elsewhere, have David Prothero’s wife Mary listed as Mary Williams, because on the 1851 and 1861 UK Censuses have David’s mother-in-law is listed as Elizabeth Williams. I was not convinced Mary’s maiden surname was Williams because the only marriage record, I could find was David Prothero, Turner marrying a Mary Lewis June 11, 1826 in Abergavenny, Monmouthshire, Wales (FMP). Right time, occupation, and place as the oldest two children (David and John) were born in Abergavenny. For a while, I’ve been thinking how to prove this theory, then I found the 1862 Death Registration, I thought might be our Elizabeth Williams, so I purchased it from the GRO, which stated the “widow of David Williams, Agricultural Labourer”. My thought before looking at this record, was that maybe Elizabeth re-married. It is looking more like it. Then I searched for a marriage record between David Williams and Elizabeth [left surname blank]. On FMP, I found a marriage record that stated “David Williams, Widower and Elizabeth Lewis, Widow” married on Aug. 14, 1834. I am getting closer to proving my theory, I thought some people may not think this was enough proof, so then I thought David and Mary had children born after civil registration, which started in 1837. I looked at the 1851 Wales Census and found the youngest child, Henry and purchased his birth registration from the GRO and his birth registration stated his mother was “Mary Prothero formerly Lewis”. From the evidence I have presented here I am confident that I have proven beyond the Genealogical Proof Standard that Mary’s maiden surname is Lewis and not Williams.
It's for the reasons noted that a lot of the information that comes up as hints on Ancestry end up in the Undecided pile with the 'I don't know how to verify this information' notation. I don't use information on other people's trees without verifying their research before adding it to my trees anymore. I made huge messes at the beginning of my journey and am still working to fix some of them! I'm not sure why things like, "A person cannot have been born in 1902 and be on the 1900 census" don't register with some folks. :(
This is a huge frustration for me. My cousins have all listed a family in NY as ours and then everyone copies it. The names are similar but I don't think it is our family. The fact is, had they actually read the census records for the NY family and compare it to our MD family, they would see that it doesn't add up. Our ancestor in question was in MD and widowed and living with his daughter (my 2nd great grandmother....) in 1900. In the same census year, NY person was alive with his wife. Where I have the issue is that in 1910, the NY person is STILL married to the same person in the same home... so, not widowed. Our ancestor disappears...while the NY family is still alive with same wife in 1920 and then passes in 1926. Also, the birth months do not line up, the NY person can read/write in English and listed as naturalized... where our actual ancestor is listed as only able to speak English and not naturalized (all noted in each 1900 census). There are other discrepancies but none of my cousins have bothered to hear me out so the third great grandparents stay as a brick wall for me and I do not even look at anyone else's trees anymore unless they are a genetic cousin and I am listing their parents/grandparents... after that, who knows!
Amy great video!! People who are starting out, this is one of the most important things to learn. It floors me when people say the name matches it must be so.....😂
In memory of Pardon Tillinghast Clarke. I think this should be one of the first videos and topics that any genealogist in training, and experienced genealogists alike should consult and master. Never. Never would I have imagined there would be TWO contemporaneous Pardon Tillinghast Clarkes. 14 months apart. and less than 10 miles apart. And because I didn't reconcile a few anomalies (I chalked them up to record errors), I wrote the coolest little historical layout and essay and disseminated it to family as a first chapter in a planned series, with the goal of getting family interested. Months later, while doing the official write ups for Wikitree, I realized: THERE WERE TWO PARDON'S. I summarized the differences in the two and posted them to familysearch and wikitree. But whoda thunk it?
I had a case of two women with the same first, middle and last names, same father's name, born on the same day two miles apart. It was easy to know they were different people because they had different mothers and different husbands in other records. These were German church records which give much more information than US civil records.
I have a case of that in my family. One of my ancestors married into two different branches of my family. The key in a case like that is to NOT make two different profiles for the person. Instead attach all of the relationships as they should be, and then adjust the view of family tree as you need to.
One set of my 2nd great grandfathers wereJames Jones and Elizabeth Smith. There were at least three other couples with the same names in the same area. We are experienced enough family genealogists to know to look for all the things you have mentioned but with these two, oh lordy! 😢
People on Ancestry have taken over my great great grandmother’s identity and used her married name as her maiden name. They then marry her off to someone else, and have her death listed in Texas. I have the family records and know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that she was born, raised, married, and died in Tennessee. The death certificate even shows her death at the home of my great grandfather in Nashville. Because of this, I am unable to do research further back in her line. It’s very frustrating.
That is *so* frustrating! One thing to keep in mind: When it comes down to it, it really doesn't matter what other people have in their trees. Yes, it messes up the hints and suggested records. But if you're doing direct searches, you'll be getting "clean" results that aren't messed up by what others have in their trees.
@@AmyJohnsonCrow I can’t seem to get any further back than her marriage certificate. Census records are messed up by the usurping, so I can’t find anything. There is the potential she may have been “passing”, which further complicates things.
The census records themselves won't be messed up because of what others have in their trees. Also consider searching for other people who would have been in the household. Do you know any of her siblings? If not, look for her obituary and see if any of them are mentioned there. Also take a look at her marriage record? Was she married by a minister? If so, look for the church records; it might have more than the civil marriage record.
Have gotten civil war facts for somebody born in the 1500s. OFTEN! Same name, wife even has the same first and maiden name. Have seen other trees that accept it just because they both had the same name. Ancestry’s search function goes by name only, date not taken into account. It is up to YOU to decide if that “fact” is true or not. If you’re not SURE, don’t accept it! Learned the hard way. Haven’t we all? Cleaning up your mistakes is an art form. One used all too often, lol.
Thanks! Just getting into this today and the advice you've given is so helpful already! Where do you normally look for these types of records? Library? Website?
Congrats on starting your family history journey! If your family is in the US, two great places to start are Ancestry (often available at your local library) and FamilySearch (which is free). The big thing when you're getting started is to start with what you know and branch out from there. If you have any relatives of an older generation (parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, or older cousins), talk to them. Also, see what papers you might already have, whether that's documents like birth and death certificates, obituaries, or old letters and diaries. Take it slow and enjoy the journey!
So many people have added kids to my great grandfather Samuel Black. He has an uncommon middle name. I know every place that he’s been to (Indiana and Nebraska). I know that he was married twice, divorced once (my great grandmother was his 2nd marriage. His first wife had been his cousin and none of their 3 children survived past toddlerhood/infancy). I’ve seen people add children born elsewhere and not in Nebraska (where his first 3 children and my grandma and her 3 sisters were born. Also none in Indiana). I’ve made notes on him and have contacted those that kept adding children to him to recheck the sources.
I think it was more common for women to return to maiden names after separation from husband or as a widow. Most of the women I'm tracking from that time period seemed to have done that. Not all... but most. Maybe it depended on their culture and identity. The Quaker women definitely appear to have returned to maiden names. And my ancestor who started me on my current project was married twice (but not long for either marriage) returned to her maiden name when she was single. Also... for that matter, I'm not even sure if she was actually married to her first... S.O. There is neither marriage nor divorce record. I'm tending to believe they had a cohabitation agreement, instead. But those records are a mess. I haven't spent enough time on those.
You're right -- it definitely depends on the situation. My favorite ancestor to research is my great-great-grandmother, who married 4 times. Each time a marriage ended, she went back to using her first married name, never her maiden name. So much fun. lol
@@yvonnefochesato4652 My theory is that she went back to using it because some of her children (then adults) were still living nearby. She didn't have children with husbands 2-4.
My great-great grandmother outlived three husband and they were all lamp lighters..... She had my great grandmother when she was 16 while working as a nanny where the wife died of a brain haemorrhage and married the widower after the birth. Great grandmother then had granny out of wedlock and married shortly after the birth. Granny then carried on the family tradition with a sailor and married shortly after the birth! Nice thing about all of that is we have a photograph of the four generations together. My mum married in December and I was born in August but one month premature.... so I'm told.😐
I never realized so many daughters were given the same first name as their mother. If it had been a male, he would be “junior”. Now the daughter has the same name as the mother’s married name. Can lead to a lot of confusion. I also have families with boy children having the same name. One John, one Jonathan. I always wonder if somebody made a mistake and others just copied that mistake from their tree. Found one instance in Google books where both John and Jonathan were listed in a book published in the 1890s. Confusing and frustrating as well.
Time 10:30 and date 2024/09/30.Im from South Africa.My name is Everet Henry Crowie.My brothers are Charles and Robert.I was born 1959/03/30.My pa was from St Helena.We are not allowed to trace our genealogy.Why?
I keep watchin US vids about genealogy because they are great and give a lot of good practices and information but I often end up a little frustrated because I generally make my research in Spain or Italy and all the techniques are different: For those places there are not enough indexed records (so you need to go throug catalog and search the record page by page or image by image) and definetely there are not enoug digitalized censuses (sometimes even none of them are). Now I have a problem with one person. I have some information of this deceased woman from the family, one birthplace and one date of birth. I search for the person and made the tree: all the old family stories about this woman and his past are not a match with this person. She moved from Italy and she left all her past behind and I tried to verify all her family said to me about who she was and I couldn't verify none of that. I am not sure if she created an image of her after she moved to another country or it is not the same woman.
On the 1900 census, how would you account for Mary E Carr giving birth to 9 children with 6 living and there are six children identified in the census? Poor record keeping? The video helps me see that it would still be important to pursue other records. Thank you for the tip!
Very good question! It’s hard to say exactly, especially since we don’t know who gave the answer. But it looks like the answer was given just for children of that marriage, rather than all of her children.
Amy. I’ve been stuck for over 25 yrs on where is my GG grandfather in New York State . Any ideas on brick walls ? Or someone that will help me find him. Ancestry wants first born son for payment. Thx in advance
I'd research him thoroughly in the places you already have him. Look for church records, obituaries (in all of the newspapers of his town), court records, military records, etc. Research the other people in his life. If you know any of his siblings, do the same for them -- any of them could have a clue for where they were from.
My extended family cousins have attached the wrong parents to my gggrandfather. I have shown them with documentation why it is the wrong record. But, because it is so each to perpetuate it as fact on both Ancestry and Family Tree, it is now attached to dozens of other persons trees despite the fact that there is no record proving it but several records refuting it.
I’ve looked everywhere Amy. Totally at a lost. His name was Edouard boaden. According to his sons death certificate . I thought he died in civil war . I could send you documents, I’m also in family search and ancestry. Could you possibly take a Quick Look ?? Thx in advance Arthur
My biggest problem right now on my dad's side of the tree is my 3rd to 5th grade grandparents. We don't know who they are simply because we cannot I cannot identify the parents of my second great-grandfather. His first name and last name or extremely common and so finding his parents is kind of like a needle in a haystack. Family members are so frustrated that when ancestry suggested a person they took it as gospel and so now when you have three lines this person shows up as his father. I'm the first one to question it because my second great-grandfather was born in Pennsylvania and this guy never left New Jersey. There's also no paper trail to try the two together and people keep telling me will you need a paper trail and how do you do a paper trail when there may not be a paper trail? I mean the only thing that proves my father is my father is DNA there is no paper trail because I was adopted and my records were sealed and I can almost guarantee you his name doesn't appear on any of that paperwork, my stepfather appears in his place.
What I do is look for state return of marriages for that year it has name county they live in occupation age name of parents for both and maiden name of mother.
I have two Achilles (Killis) Woodys on my tree... One is my 4x great grandfather, the other is a cousin. Both born in the same year, one stayed in Tennessee, one went to Missouri-he disappeared around 1850 when the other established residence and showed up with a different wife in Tennessee, where they show up on censuses there in 1850. I personally think my Killis died a pauper in Missouri as his wife was an indentured servant for the next decade, but there's no documentation and burial record.
An indentured servant in Missouri in the 1850s? I would be looking at court records for that. (I'd also be looking for voter and tax records in that county to see when he drops off.)
@@AmyJohnsonCrow I've been looking, I relook every few years to see if something new pops up. 1 child out of 10 had his name recorded on their death certificate. I have the documents showing his wife was an indentured servant. I only have 4 documents proving Achillis' existence. He really didn't want to be found (which seems a theme in that family). One day I'll be able to get down to Missouri and hopefully find some paper trail that hasn't been digitized.
I have the son's marriage records that list the parents name. So I know her original first and last name and her married name but so many people lived in the same state the son was born. I have one record that list, the husband and the wife but says his mom was mixed race but the son is only 1 years old on the record which is 4 year younger then what it should according to his marriage license that listed him as 25.
As a second generation child of Sicilian born maternal grandparents it is next to impossible to trace back my ancestry mainly because most of the records were destroyed via fire. On my father's side, his Calabrese father was adopted by an American family who changed his name so my maiden name is not my true family name. That and the sparse to non-existent recorkeeping and the fact that I don't read Italian has led me into numerous brick walls. Add the fact that Italian families name the eldest children after the grandparents and recycle names even renaming newborns after deceased siblings. I've just about given up.
Maybe take a DNA test - it might open a few doors. It did for me re my G Grandfather. All the hints on Ancestry from family trees had the same date of birth & parents yet on his marriage cert to my G Grandmother he was a widower ( which would have made him older than the dates they all had), I found that marriage & a daughter he had and it was her daughter (his grand daughter) that I shared DNA with!!. So my hunch was right yet on notifying others of their error none of them have corrected their tree!. Good luck. I know how frustrating it is to hit these brick walls.
@@londonmum1901 thank you. I did and it helped a little but nothing past great grandparents. Plus, all my family are deceased so there us no one to ask. I'm glad you were able to discover what you did. It's wonderful!
African American research is definitely challenging. All the more reason to pay attention to all of the clues that the records show. The family that I showed in this video was African-American.
There were 2 men by the name of Willis Senter/Center, both born about 1780, and both died 1844-1848. One lived in Roane County, TN, and the other in Allen County, KY. SO many people use the Roane County., TN, man as the parent to the Allen County, KY, children. I've given up trying to educate people with the wrong Willis. They like the TN guy because he has documented parents and the KY guy doesn't. But DNA shows the descendants of the KY Willis connected to the Sentell family of SC/NC, not the VA family of the TN Willis.
The adage of leading a horse to water comes to mind :-) At the end of the day, all you can do is show them the evidence. If they don't change their trees, that's on them.
The danish change their last names. They are naned for their father adding sen or dotter. And way back women didn't have any thing in their name it all belongeg to their husbands.
All it takes is one person to claim that the husband of so and so had two different sir names and was the same person without any proof whatsoever. They just want it to be that way so they can claim they are related to the Lord mayor of London in 1600s!! It drives me insane because it screws up everybody’s research! Researching this far back takes great care and patience because a. Record keeping wasn’t that great, b. Nearly Every first born son had the same names as the father so unless they were wealthy, really tricky to sort out.
I live in a remote Acadian French community. I personally know 5 people named Leo James Cyr all about my age in this area. Untangling their records 200 years from now will be a challenge.
Genealogy is like putting together a puzzle with an unknown number of pieces and no picture, but it is fun. I try to build on work others have done, but do try to verify their results as well. A lot of people will add someone who is a likely match without doing complete research as you describe in your video. A likely match is a starting point, not the end.
Exactly! I like to say that trees are good for clues, but don't rely on them.
When adding census records, I always add the address they lived at and the occupation. These are great info to check against other documentation to determine if it's the same person. I also always have Google Maps up and am constantly checking the distance between all the places mentioned to make sure that it is feasible for it to be the same person.
Thank you for this video. A couple of years ago I came across an ancestor, who had been merged on FamilySearch with a person of the same name. This merge added a different husband and children with overlapping birth years. Also, added another father to her record. I decided to investigate further since I knew that my ancestor only had one husband, not that many children, etc. so I restored the ‘deleted’ person, so I could see the details. The two women birthdates were two years apart, born in the same town in England, and their fathers’ names were different. I started looking at the baptism records in the area according to the dates of baptism and(luckily) listed dates of birth, along with fathers. Found both girls. Then checked census records, found both families. I then looked for records of the fathers, and found that they were actually brothers, who had daughters born two years apart in the same town, with the same names. I restored everything for the girls, wrote a reason statements describing my research and conclusions, and the two have stayed separate since.
As a retired (well, mostly retired), one of the My Heritage site problems is OTHERS. If I find a person that is, in fact correct. And IF, I do my normal checks, i.e. Name dob, dod, and cities, then I accept, I get a drop down of up to 12 people that I know nothing about. So, when I accept a person, I accept the drop downs unless I subject each to the same filters I list above and that is hard to do because you may not know them or their info. So, I accept, then get a discrepancy report showing a litany of people. The main problem? It is the individuals that post their genealogy and either by wrong procedures, or placements, show someone's son as being his father as well. Be careful, people.
There's a reason why I haven't added my tree to Ancestry. My Great-great Grandfather is shown on other trees as dying in Sussex 1909. One person decided that and other people just copied it into their own trees. I have his death certificate from 1917 Brinkworth, Wiltshire where he lived. I don't want other people benefitting from my hard work
Dawn, that's an interesting attitude. Sometimes others benefit from OUR hard work, sometimes we benefit from THEIR hard work.
@@dawnf-sktn7950 That seems quite cynical, surely it would be better to allow others to access correct records and correct their mistakes?
As an amateur genealogist who's been working on my family tree for a couple of decades, this was such a satisfying story, with all the evidence falling into place! When I first got into online genealogy, I started pulling in all the family trees i could find, without really checking the source information, and quickly found my tree had all sorts of errors -- names of people that I knew personally that were misspelled in other people's trees, dates that didn't line up, so many problems! I eventually dumped the whole thing and started over, being MUCH pickier about what I add to my tree. I really enjoy watching your videos -- I learn a lot from you!
As an "amateur genealogist" for my family, I have some perplexing dilemmas. They revolve around documentation. The issue applies more to myself, rather then my wife.
I am Asian Indian by background. Record keeping until maybe the early to mid 1900s in India was sloppy at best, if there was even a record. My mother, and my father, both Baby Boomer age, do not have birth certificates. They have a court issued legal affidavit made of their birth. That is how they exist. They have no birth certificate. Add to the fact that everything in India was verbal, slowly, everything is being lost as far as family history, as nothing really was written down. People are aging, and as a result, passing away, taking that knowledge with them. People's memories are sometimes not so great.
Additionally, for India, until the arrival of the British, the use of surnames was not a normal thing. This is in addition to the fact that people also sometimes carried the name of the place they were born as part of their name.
Also, worth noting, that due to how society was in India at times, the records are sometimes very incomplete for women. Men seem to have more complete records, when it comes to India.
Additionally, with this lack of paperwork in the past for India, marriage and census records are sometimes non-existent...not unless someone when to court and had an affidavit done, with two witnesses, noting the existence of a marriage. This was common all the way until the present time, and still is at times.
My mother was born Valmiki Srinivasachar Prabhamani. Valmiki was my grandfather's title, as he served the Maharaja of Mysore. Srinivasachar was grandfather's personal name. Prabhamani is my mother's personal name. When she immigrated to the USA in the 1970s, her name ended up being Prabhamani Valmiki Iyer. She "lost" the name Srinivasachar on her US paperwork.
My father, born Mahadeva Ananthsubramaniam Lakshmanan, immigrated to the USA in the 1970s, and his name was changed to Laxman Subramaniam Iyer. He did not know his surname until the day he departed India for the USA (surname was not a normal thing). Mahadeva was his grandfather's name. Ananthasubramaniam was his father's name. All of my father's paperwork in India call him M A Laxman or M A Lakshmanan.
Also, note the Anglicization of my father's personal name (Lakshamanan -> Laxman). That is what happens when in school, my father went to Catholic school as a kid, when the sisters and father could not pronounce your birth name. They Anglicized it, and you had no say in it. So my father's school records in India, including his university degrees in India, listed his personal name as Laxman (not Lakshmanan...what his parents and his Legal Court Affidavit for his Birth in India says). In the USA, when my father immigrated, his US paperwork lists him as Laxman (and he legally has the name Laxman in the USA).
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My wife is from Vietnam. While Vietnam has copious amounts paperwork and bureaucracy, some of the normal social rules on names do not apply. They are different. For instance, when a woman marries in Vietnam, she keeps the surname she is born with. She does not take the name of her husband's family (think Mrs Smith being the wife of Mr Thomas...very rare in Vietnam for Mrs Smith being the wife of Mr Smith). There is no legal mechanism in Vietnam to have your name changed. Also, the fact that it is quite common for all people to carry surnames of both parents makes things interesting, when tracing back.
For Vietnam, this makes things very interesting and complicated, especially when people immigrate. Here is a personal example. My wife is a dual citizen (1 US Passport, 1 Vietnam Passport). Her US Passport lists her name as "Thaiduong Copham Iyer". Her Vietnam Passport lists her name as "Co Pham Thai Duong". Iyer is her married name, and legal name in the USA (she acquired that name when she immigrated to the USA and ultimately naturalized as a US Citizen). Regardless, Vietnam still legally refers to her as Co Pham Thai Duong (not Thaiduong Copham Iyer).
Additionally, for Vietnam, in the past, prior to 1975, the paperwork for things like marriage and census were sloppy, if they even existed. Best to hope for a court record or an affidavit. Even then, the issue in Vietnam is that many couples just did not have any paperwork, assuming it was done prior to 1975. Today, there are still cases like this among certain people. The marriage is effectively "common law" in Vietnam, although, Vietnam law does not recognize common law (it only recognizes civil law...court law). Hence, today in modern Vietnam, most marriages and related are done as "civil law", with a court record that exists somewhere.
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So, there are many things that if you are in Asia, it is just a bit more complicated, and a little bit more difficult. Sometimes they are not traceable. Sometimes it is different naming conventions between the USA (West) and Asia.
As I was born and raised in the USA, my legal name is Rahul Laxman Iyer. All of my paperwork says that name only. I have all of the "correct" paperwork, including an official birth certificate issued from a place in the USA.
If I was born in India, my name would appear quite different. I probably would have had Ananthasubramaniam Lakshmanan Rahul as my name.
Then again, I was born and raised in the USA, so my name is Rahul Laxman Iyer. Note, my name has the Anglicization in my middle name.
Try this. A fellow on Ancestry has me in his tree because his great aunt was born 29th Feb 1912 in a city in the Usa. My mother was born in that city 29th Feb 1912. Both women were given name Mary and both had same last name. But my mother married someone with last name Fraga, his relative married someone called Viera. Here is problem he says its same person who married twice. I know my mother didnt marry twice.
I had someone add another wife (similar name) to my grandfather in FamilySearch. They had lived in the same general area. I had to get help from FS to unravel that problem. People really need to use due diligence when working on a tree.
Oh I had people putting my xtimes Grandmother as being in New York and Illinois at the same time! Luckily my Grandmother and Grandfather had land records in Illinois along with her father and brothers doing the same thing. I left them comments as to that fact. I noticed at least 4 people had changed the duplicate families. Why would anyone think a person had children from two husband's thousands of miles away at the same time? I'm glad my Grandmother had a very extensive paper trail.
Here is a situarion I was in and how I proved my theory correct. All of the trees I have seen on Ancestry and elsewhere, have David Prothero’s wife Mary listed as Mary Williams, because on the 1851 and 1861 UK Censuses have David’s mother-in-law is listed as Elizabeth Williams. I was not convinced Mary’s maiden surname was Williams because the only marriage record, I could find was David Prothero, Turner marrying a Mary Lewis June 11, 1826 in Abergavenny, Monmouthshire, Wales (FMP). Right time, occupation, and place as the oldest two children (David and John) were born in Abergavenny. For a while, I’ve been thinking how to prove this theory, then I found the 1862 Death Registration, I thought might be our Elizabeth Williams, so I purchased it from the GRO, which stated the “widow of David Williams, Agricultural Labourer”. My thought before looking at this record, was that maybe Elizabeth re-married. It is looking more like it. Then I searched for a marriage record between David Williams and Elizabeth [left surname blank]. On FMP, I found a marriage record that stated “David Williams, Widower and Elizabeth Lewis, Widow” married on Aug. 14, 1834. I am getting closer to proving my theory, I thought some people may not think this was enough proof, so then I thought David and Mary had children born after civil registration, which started in 1837. I looked at the 1851 Wales Census and found the youngest child, Henry and purchased his birth registration from the GRO and his birth registration stated his mother was “Mary Prothero formerly Lewis”.
From the evidence I have presented here I am confident that I have proven beyond the Genealogical Proof Standard that Mary’s maiden surname is Lewis and not Williams.
Great work on this case!
It's for the reasons noted that a lot of the information that comes up as hints on Ancestry end up in the Undecided pile with the 'I don't know how to verify this information' notation. I don't use information on other people's trees without verifying their research before adding it to my trees anymore. I made huge messes at the beginning of my journey and am still working to fix some of them!
I'm not sure why things like, "A person cannot have been born in 1902 and be on the 1900 census" don't register with some folks. :(
This is a huge frustration for me. My cousins have all listed a family in NY as ours and then everyone copies it. The names are similar but I don't think it is our family. The fact is, had they actually read the census records for the NY family and compare it to our MD family, they would see that it doesn't add up. Our ancestor in question was in MD and widowed and living with his daughter (my 2nd great grandmother....) in 1900. In the same census year, NY person was alive with his wife. Where I have the issue is that in 1910, the NY person is STILL married to the same person in the same home... so, not widowed. Our ancestor disappears...while the NY family is still alive with same wife in 1920 and then passes in 1926. Also, the birth months do not line up, the NY person can read/write in English and listed as naturalized... where our actual ancestor is listed as only able to speak English and not naturalized (all noted in each 1900 census). There are other discrepancies but none of my cousins have bothered to hear me out so the third great grandparents stay as a brick wall for me and I do not even look at anyone else's trees anymore unless they are a genetic cousin and I am listing their parents/grandparents... after that, who knows!
Wow. This is a great video, Amy. It's helpful and a game-changer when trails go cold. Thanks for posting it! Stay well.
Thank you so much! I'm glad you liked the video!
Amy great video!! People who are starting out, this is one of the most important things to learn. It floors me when people say the name matches it must be so.....😂
Glad you enjoyed the video! Thanks for watching :-)
In memory of Pardon Tillinghast Clarke.
I think this should be one of the first videos and topics that any genealogist in training, and experienced genealogists alike should consult and master.
Never. Never would I have imagined there would be TWO contemporaneous Pardon Tillinghast Clarkes. 14 months apart. and less than 10 miles apart. And because I didn't reconcile a few anomalies (I chalked them up to record errors), I wrote the coolest little historical layout and essay and disseminated it to family as a first chapter in a planned series, with the goal of getting family interested. Months later, while doing the official write ups for Wikitree, I realized: THERE WERE TWO PARDON'S.
I summarized the differences in the two and posted them to familysearch and wikitree. But whoda thunk it?
At least you caught the error! (I had a similar experience with Reason Debolt. How many of them could there be? lol) Glad you liked the video 😊
I had a case of two women with the same first, middle and last names, same father's name, born on the same day two miles apart. It was easy to know they were different people because they had different mothers and different husbands in other records. These were German church records which give much more information than US civil records.
That's one of my biggest grievances with Ancestry. I hate how they have to duplicate the person if they have dual roles.
I have a case of that in my family. One of my ancestors married into two different branches of my family. The key in a case like that is to NOT make two different profiles for the person. Instead attach all of the relationships as they should be, and then adjust the view of family tree as you need to.
@@AmyJohnsonCrow It's the same person, I just wish that it wouldn't duplicate the profile.
You merge the profile, you can do that with any profile.
One set of my 2nd great grandfathers wereJames Jones and Elizabeth Smith. There were at least three other couples with the same names in the same area. We are experienced enough family genealogists to know to look for all the things you have mentioned but with these two, oh lordy! 😢
Had that problem. I found her obit that mentions my Grandfather as her son by her first hudband
People on Ancestry have taken over my great great grandmother’s identity and used her married name as her maiden name. They then marry her off to someone else, and have her death listed in Texas. I have the family records and know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that she was born, raised, married, and died in Tennessee. The death certificate even shows her death at the home of my great grandfather in Nashville. Because of this, I am unable to do research further back in her line. It’s very frustrating.
That is *so* frustrating! One thing to keep in mind: When it comes down to it, it really doesn't matter what other people have in their trees. Yes, it messes up the hints and suggested records. But if you're doing direct searches, you'll be getting "clean" results that aren't messed up by what others have in their trees.
@@AmyJohnsonCrow I can’t seem to get any further back than her marriage certificate. Census records are messed up by the usurping, so I can’t find anything. There is the potential she may have been “passing”, which further complicates things.
The census records themselves won't be messed up because of what others have in their trees. Also consider searching for other people who would have been in the household. Do you know any of her siblings? If not, look for her obituary and see if any of them are mentioned there. Also take a look at her marriage record? Was she married by a minister? If so, look for the church records; it might have more than the civil marriage record.
Amy, I love the new setup!
The "leaf" on Ancestry needs to be thoroughly researched, as it may not be a true link.
Have gotten civil war facts for somebody born in the 1500s. OFTEN! Same name, wife even has the same first and maiden name. Have seen other trees that accept it just because they both had the same name. Ancestry’s search function goes by name only, date not taken into account. It is up to YOU to decide if that “fact” is true or not. If you’re not SURE, don’t accept it!
Learned the hard way. Haven’t we all? Cleaning up your mistakes is an art form. One used all too often, lol.
Sorry to jump in, but I know I sure do get a lot of practice. Sometimes I get just a bit too excited.
Thanks! Just getting into this today and the advice you've given is so helpful already!
Where do you normally look for these types of records? Library? Website?
Congrats on starting your family history journey! If your family is in the US, two great places to start are Ancestry (often available at your local library) and FamilySearch (which is free). The big thing when you're getting started is to start with what you know and branch out from there. If you have any relatives of an older generation (parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, or older cousins), talk to them. Also, see what papers you might already have, whether that's documents like birth and death certificates, obituaries, or old letters and diaries. Take it slow and enjoy the journey!
@@AmyJohnsonCrow
Thank you! I’m from the UK btw, but I’ll still check those out! Thank you :)
@kumori_77 FamilySearch is still a good option, but I’d also take a look at FindMyPast. They specialize in UK records.
@@AmyJohnsonCrow Great thank you!
So many people have added kids to my great grandfather Samuel Black. He has an uncommon middle name. I know every place that he’s been to (Indiana and Nebraska). I know that he was married twice, divorced once (my great grandmother was his 2nd marriage. His first wife had been his cousin and none of their 3 children survived past toddlerhood/infancy). I’ve seen people add children born elsewhere and not in Nebraska (where his first 3 children and my grandma and her 3 sisters were born. Also none in Indiana). I’ve made notes on him and have contacted those that kept adding children to him to recheck the sources.
I think it was more common for women to return to maiden names after separation from husband or as a widow. Most of the women I'm tracking from that time period seemed to have done that. Not all... but most. Maybe it depended on their culture and identity. The Quaker women definitely appear to have returned to maiden names.
And my ancestor who started me on my current project was married twice (but not long for either marriage) returned to her maiden name when she was single. Also... for that matter, I'm not even sure if she was actually married to her first... S.O. There is neither marriage nor divorce record. I'm tending to believe they had a cohabitation agreement, instead. But those records are a mess. I haven't spent enough time on those.
You're right -- it definitely depends on the situation. My favorite ancestor to research is my great-great-grandmother, who married 4 times. Each time a marriage ended, she went back to using her first married name, never her maiden name. So much fun. lol
@AmyJohnsonCrow probably for the kids or it was a more prestigious name..
@@yvonnefochesato4652 My theory is that she went back to using it because some of her children (then adults) were still living nearby. She didn't have children with husbands 2-4.
My great-great grandmother outlived three husband and they were all lamp lighters.....
She had my great grandmother when she was 16 while working as a nanny where the wife died of a brain haemorrhage and married the widower after the birth.
Great grandmother then had granny out of wedlock and married shortly after the birth.
Granny then carried on the family tradition with a sailor and married shortly after the birth!
Nice thing about all of that is we have a photograph of the four generations together.
My mum married in December and I was born in August but one month premature.... so I'm told.😐
People naming their children after themselves has been a headache for me.
Or two children with same name..😮
I never realized so many daughters were given the same first name as their mother. If it had been a male, he would be “junior”. Now the daughter has the same name as the mother’s married name. Can lead to a lot of confusion. I also have families with boy children having the same name. One John, one Jonathan. I always wonder if somebody made a mistake and others just copied that mistake from their tree. Found one instance in Google books where both John and Jonathan were listed in a book published in the 1890s. Confusing and frustrating as well.
Time 10:30 and date 2024/09/30.Im from South Africa.My name is Everet Henry Crowie.My brothers are Charles and Robert.I was born 1959/03/30.My pa was from St Helena.We are not allowed to trace our genealogy.Why?
I keep watchin US vids about genealogy because they are great and give a lot of good practices and information but I often end up a little frustrated because I generally make my research in Spain or Italy and all the techniques are different: For those places there are not enough indexed records (so you need to go throug catalog and search the record page by page or image by image) and definetely there are not enoug digitalized censuses (sometimes even none of them are).
Now I have a problem with one person. I have some information of this deceased woman from the family, one birthplace and one date of birth. I search for the person and made the tree: all the old family stories about this woman and his past are not a match with this person. She moved from Italy and she left all her past behind and I tried to verify all her family said to me about who she was and I couldn't verify none of that. I am not sure if she created an image of her after she moved to another country or it is not the same woman.
On the 1900 census, how would you account for Mary E Carr giving birth to 9 children with 6 living and there are six children identified in the census? Poor record keeping? The video helps me see that it would still be important to pursue other records. Thank you for the tip!
Very good question! It’s hard to say exactly, especially since we don’t know who gave the answer. But it looks like the answer was given just for children of that marriage, rather than all of her children.
Amy. I’ve been stuck for over 25 yrs on where is my GG grandfather in New York State . Any ideas on brick walls ? Or someone that will help me find him. Ancestry wants first born son for payment. Thx in advance
I'd research him thoroughly in the places you already have him. Look for church records, obituaries (in all of the newspapers of his town), court records, military records, etc. Research the other people in his life. If you know any of his siblings, do the same for them -- any of them could have a clue for where they were from.
My extended family cousins have attached the wrong parents to my gggrandfather. I have shown them with documentation why it is the wrong record. But, because it is so each to perpetuate it as fact on both Ancestry and Family Tree, it is now attached to dozens of other persons trees despite the fact that there is no record proving it but several records refuting it.
I’ve looked everywhere Amy. Totally at a lost. His name was Edouard boaden. According to his sons death certificate . I thought he died in civil war . I could send you documents, I’m also in family search and ancestry. Could you possibly take a Quick Look ?? Thx in advance Arthur
My biggest problem right now on my dad's side of the tree is my 3rd to 5th grade grandparents.
We don't know who they are simply because we cannot I cannot identify the parents of my second great-grandfather. His first name and last name or extremely common and so finding his parents is kind of like a needle in a haystack.
Family members are so frustrated that when ancestry suggested a person they took it as gospel and so now when you have three lines this person shows up as his father. I'm the first one to question it because my second great-grandfather was born in Pennsylvania and this guy never left New Jersey. There's also no paper trail to try the two together and people keep telling me will you need a paper trail and how do you do a paper trail when there may not be a paper trail?
I mean the only thing that proves my father is my father is DNA there is no paper trail because I was adopted and my records were sealed and I can almost guarantee you his name doesn't appear on any of that paperwork, my stepfather appears in his place.
What I do is look for state return of marriages for that year it has name county they live in occupation age name of parents for both and maiden name of mother.
I have two Achilles (Killis) Woodys on my tree... One is my 4x great grandfather, the other is a cousin. Both born in the same year, one stayed in Tennessee, one went to Missouri-he disappeared around 1850 when the other established residence and showed up with a different wife in Tennessee, where they show up on censuses there in 1850. I personally think my Killis died a pauper in Missouri as his wife was an indentured servant for the next decade, but there's no documentation and burial record.
An indentured servant in Missouri in the 1850s? I would be looking at court records for that. (I'd also be looking for voter and tax records in that county to see when he drops off.)
@@AmyJohnsonCrow I've been looking, I relook every few years to see if something new pops up. 1 child out of 10 had his name recorded on their death certificate. I have the documents showing his wife was an indentured servant. I only have 4 documents proving Achillis' existence. He really didn't want to be found (which seems a theme in that family). One day I'll be able to get down to Missouri and hopefully find some paper trail that hasn't been digitized.
I have the son's marriage records that list the parents name. So I know her original first and last name and her married name but so many people lived in the same state the son was born. I have one record that list, the husband and the wife but says his mom was mixed race but the son is only 1 years old on the record which is 4 year younger then what it should according to his marriage license that listed him as 25.
awesome
As a second generation child of Sicilian born maternal grandparents it is next to impossible to trace back my ancestry mainly because most of the records were destroyed via fire. On my father's side, his Calabrese father was adopted by an American family who changed his name so my maiden name is not my true family name. That and the sparse to non-existent recorkeeping and the fact that I don't read Italian has led me into numerous brick walls. Add the fact that Italian families name the eldest children after the grandparents and recycle names even renaming newborns after deceased siblings. I've just about given up.
Maybe take a DNA test - it might open a few doors. It did for me re my G Grandfather. All the hints on Ancestry from family trees had the same date of birth & parents yet on his marriage cert to my G Grandmother he was a widower ( which would have made him older than the dates they all had), I found that marriage & a daughter he had and it was her daughter (his grand daughter) that I shared DNA with!!. So my hunch was right yet on notifying others of their error none of them have corrected their tree!. Good luck. I know how frustrating it is to hit these brick walls.
@@londonmum1901 thank you. I did and it helped a little but nothing past great grandparents. Plus, all my family are deceased so there us no one to ask. I'm glad you were able to discover what you did. It's wonderful!
@@CynVee I've also uploaded my DNA to gedmatch & ,my heritage - you never know !.
This is even harder as an African American. Names & DOB change. Census records are either sparse or non existent. 😑
African American research is definitely challenging. All the more reason to pay attention to all of the clues that the records show. The family that I showed in this video was African-American.
There were 2 men by the name of Willis Senter/Center, both born about 1780, and both died 1844-1848. One lived in Roane County, TN, and the other in Allen County, KY. SO many people use the Roane County., TN, man as the parent to the Allen County, KY, children. I've given up trying to educate people with the wrong Willis. They like the TN guy because he has documented parents and the KY guy doesn't. But DNA shows the descendants of the KY Willis connected to the Sentell family of SC/NC, not the VA family of the TN Willis.
The adage of leading a horse to water comes to mind :-) At the end of the day, all you can do is show them the evidence. If they don't change their trees, that's on them.
The danish change their last names. They are naned for their father adding sen or dotter. And way back women didn't have any thing in their name it all belongeg to their husbands.
All it takes is one person to claim that the husband of so and so had two different sir names and was the same person without any proof whatsoever. They just want it to be that way so they can claim they are related to the Lord mayor of London in 1600s!! It drives me insane because it screws up everybody’s research! Researching this far back takes great care and patience because a. Record keeping wasn’t that great, b. Nearly Every first born son had the same names as the father so unless they were wealthy, really tricky to sort out.