HI THERE, YOU. I took the summer off to write a book. I was able to get 10 chapters finished, looked at the calendar, and realized it was time to get back to you. So I'm back. Hello. I will work on the book during weekends until it's finished. For now, expect more videos, more frequently. And as always... thanks for commenting.
I tell billy that dude don't go higher, let's buy the 100 dollar for my 10 while you put 5 dollars, let him have 15...we still get 85 back.... and lets split it .....and YOU, the 100 dollar owner, LOSE ..hahaha
But you only get 40$ in the process whilst Billy gets 50$. Should be 40/60 Edit: checked my math again and it's supposed to be 55/45 so you get 55$ and your friend gets 45$ since you're the one who bet 10$ you should have 10$ more when you get the profit if you want equal profit (lmao 9 months late) If you followed my last, incorrect math, the profit the two of you get will be 50$ and 40$.
Then you yourself aren't playing the game, so are neither winning nor losing the game. You are gaining profit from the meta circumstance surrounding the game, but you aren't winning the game itself.
1 whole dollar would take take 1000 seconds for you to bid in the game ( you do 500 seconds and your opponent does another 500 so the time for you to bid 1000 seconds ) and till y'all get to 99 dollars 99000 seconds will pass and that's over 1500 hours which is over two or three months
@@benjaminh2994 you can say whatever you want but it doesn't fall within the the original rules. You can't just make up rules of the game as you go along.
Sadly the paradox is for NC or noncooperative behavior only. So this would be a great way to beat the game with cooperative behavior, but that's not allowed for the circumstances. I believe he confused everyone when he said friend. It would have been a better analogy to say that you're playing against a stranger. At around 5:41 it shows the article that talks about why this game only works with NC behavior.
How to win the game. Immediately bid $99.99 before the other person has a chance to make a bid. The other bidder doesn’t yet hold a commitment to the bid, and thus has no incentive to outbid you.
You wouldn't get 100 because you'd have to pay for it. It will never be 100. The 2 players should agree to cheat the other guy. Player 1 bets 1. Player 2 bets 2. Player 1 quits.
Even if you refuse to bid your opponent will then be willing to bid a dollar, and win 99$. They feel no need to cooperate with you at a 50% chance for 50$ You can rationalize at this point that gaining nothing is the best you can do but you can never force cooperation.
I tell billy that dude don't go higher, let's buy the 100 dollar for my 10 while you put 5 dollars, let him have 15...we still get 85 back.... and lets split it .....and YOU, the 100 dollar owner, LOSE ..hahaha
@عمر حليله There are no other players present in this example, otherwise they would have entered the game somewhere between 15 and 99 dollars. So his tactic is a definite win.
@@tomfarley226 actually assuming they dont know the game and still know the rules 100 dollars seems a little too good to be true but kinda worth trying because before they even start playing their first thought is "what do i got to lose"
Have Player1 bid $1 & Player2 bid $2. They get in return $100. Give Player1 $49.5 & Player2 $50.5. In the end, each gets a profit of $48.5. And Bidder loses $97.
that's what I was thinking throughout this entire video! he said the person is your friend, so why not make a deal with your friend where one person bids the $1 for the $100 and then split
For all the people that says 'that's not how bidding works' or 'why would the losing party pay'. He isn't talking about an auction you can put on Amazon. He is talking a situation where he offers two people in person a 100 dolar bill to whoever pays the more and at 1:39 he stated that there was a catch so all parties involved knew that if they didn't outbid the other they would lose. That's the core essence of the game if the loser kept the money the auction wouldn't go pass 100 dollar but as he explain. once the profit margin goes to zero you still want to keep paying so you won't lose as much. So yea it's not an auction it's a scam
If the catch is announced after initial round of bidding you will withdraw from auction taking your bid because rules changed. But what if the catch is there but is not so obvious. For example investor wants to build high building and say only companies owning high crane can enter the auction. The company A buys the crane for 5XXX$ and enter the auction bidding 10XXX$ for construction and then company B buys the crane for 5XXX$ and bid 9XXX$. Then company A must bid $8XXX just to not lose 5XXX$ and the bidding goes down to 5XXX$ meaning no profit for company but at least not to loose price of the crane. The other company will then bid 4XXX$ to reduce the loss from 5XXX$ to 4XXX$ and so on. The video points out that there are such games by using trivial example.
Could possibly make ~$99 more than me by choosing to outbid me. But the point is to force the aforementioned backward induction into the open, and hope my partner follows the same path to the "oh, this jerkass was hoping to rip us off" result instead of competing with me. If Partner chooses to bid $2, then I will stop and lose my $1 and say "I am not outbidding you on purpose" and hope they place some value in cooperation. After all, it barely affects me to lose $1 and doesn't affect me at all if Game Player has that ~$100 versus Partner getting it. I am betting on their charity (and a bit of "revenge" versus the game-player) eliciting quick cooperation and the possibility of gratuity, whether it amounts to "even split" or not.
Obviously my ability to call out the backward induction component can only happen if I realize it. 😛 But the situation is one of those "too good to be true so there has got to be a catch" situations like "doubling grains of rice on a chessboard" and cause a resonable amount of "let's think this through" from both parties before it got too far. A more interesting variant might be a one-round, blind bid. No communication, and an almost certain "over $100" win for Game Player because the parties are just trying to think of "juuuuust the right bid" against their opponent once, and now have a potentially-snowballing situation.
"No? Ok. Fine. I'll just eat the $5 loss to spite the dealer and disincentivise him from attempting scams like this in future. It's still better than the alternative."
You: *bids over $100* Billy: *bids over $100* Host: "Well, thanks for playing! Gotta run!" *takes off with his winnings* You and Billy: "Wait a minute-!"
Impossible to win except the auctioneer? Hold on, What if I made an arrangement with my mate that one of us stops at a low amount and he gives me say 30% of the profit?
He smile and say let me pay the dollar. You are flattered as it saves you a dollar. He wins the bid and keeps the 100$ and you learn a life lesson of no cooperation. With that in mind why would they trust you if you are a totally rational being? What could you say that make them believe you would give up 50$ when nothing is forcing you to in the game.
People are not that dumb to do that, it's really rare, also if someone bets 10$ and no one else bets then you loose 90$, anyways no one will even find your selling because your probably not that famous on eBay or any selling app.
Simplest way to win : Get into an agreement with Billy My bid : 10$ Billy : 20$ I lose..Billy gets 80$ Split it up (Both make profit) The dealer loses✌🏻.
These all-pay auctions are based on the assumption the players can't cooperate with each other. It's a paradox because even bidding can be a way of communication (and outbidding as well, as a punishment) and not doing so is actually against their self-interest. So the game requires the players to act against their self-interest (simply demanding each player live only inside its bubble: a.k.a assuming everything the other player do is random or irrational) to prove they get negative payoffs in doing so... that's why I dont like these frameworks. Over infinite repetitions this become evident: both players would eventually simply take turns in single-handedly bidding different items, because every time they dont they will get punished.
But in the real auction, you don’t have to pay the losing bid so you just keep bidding to outbid the others and at the same time, get something at a better value. But in this game, you try to outbid the other and also bid to minimize your loss.
@@zarifshoeb Yeah, but in this all-pay auction the issue is: you wouldnt need to minimize your losses if you could rationaly predict what the other player will do. This game doesnt have assymetry of information, both players can predict each-other movements. Its assumed they simply dont and that 'no communication' rules just take out the obvious fault in the framework. They are not perfectly rational. If you assume the other player is irrational, the best strategy becomes not playing at all. 0 losses. Or if you are first, bidding the maximum -1 unit. This way your outcome at least is always positive.
If we are going to be sticklers he did say "you and your friend" not "you and a stranger" its fair to assume that you and a good friend would rather work together than compete.
If you listen the explanation and the study closely it was stated - with good reason - that it works only in a "non cooperative" enviroment. Ofc you guys can cooperate and share the gain in a real situation, but the whole premise of the hypothetical expreiment was that you are not cooperating and so you both go for the win without negotiation. And don't think this would be an unrealistic setup in a competitive enviroment where the numbers are a bit more obfuscated and the competition is fierce enough. (sometimes gaining an advantage against a competitior is just literally losing less than them)
Justin Y. He said “easiest 80 bucks billy has ever made, hopefully”, which means that he hopes billy hasn’t acquired this 80 in an easier way... ...LIKE MUUURRRDER!!!
This is probably one of the most intriguing videos on TH-cam and I love to be on the other side of things and making that sweet sweet profit is the bidding escalates
"As long as everyone playing makes a rational decision". That's ironic, the people who were irrational in beginning the game all of a sudden have to start acting rationally due to how irrational they were at the start.
There's also a game where you try and convince a Flat Earther that no, the government is not paying people to lie of the Earth's true form and that the Earth has actually been scientifically proven to be spherical. You can't win this game either.
I came across this for the first time in Nat Geo's Brain Games. They set up an auction to experiment with random people. Goes well till it is $100 for $100 note. Then people started smelling the problem 😂😂😂😂
@@kyoyoberry he means before the other guy bids, so the other guy has nothing to lose and lets you get it cause he has nothing to win by bidding 100 to get 100
But the starting bet is $1 which means that the guy who bid the dollar before you can go from -1 dollars to 0 flat, a rational decision which now puts you at risk of 99.99 then the train starts
*The second highest bidder not everyone This works at parties or with groups of 3 people, as one person will never have to pay, they can "drop out" and stop bidding while the other two are stuck now.
Well, since Billy is a stubborn boy who doesn't want to lose even a buck, he would then bet 102 to save himself for the moment, and the game continues...
@@daimao7392 @Dai Mao you're not very smart if he bid 102, he'll lose 2 then which is worse than losing 1 so he won't do that op's proposed solution is actually very smart, both of you just lose 1 each
Benjamin Brady I would expect some people would even go to 100 just to screw with you, that's where game theory breaks apart, but if everyone was rational and non communicative everyone would lose.
John Chalinder or an easy way for you and your friend to make an easy 50 bucks. Just out bid your friend or let your friend out bid you by a dollar take the 100 you or your friend wins split it 50-50 you and your friend just made 50 by only spending $3.....
If this is a slick con to you, you've already been ran up and down your life savings, 401k, future will, and even maxed out credit and that's just between your grandchildren.
1. Get 2 guys 2. Weight them. 3. Let them play a game for two. 4. Measure the weight again of whoever loses. The difference between the two measurements is how much losing weighs. 5. Profit?
Am i missing something? Who would agree to pay a losing bid? I also would like to point out that you didn't point that out in the beginning. You just asked how much would you give. Not you pay if you lose.
Bitcoin mining is not an auction. It's more like labor. You use your graphics card, which is running on electricity you have to pay for, to solve algorithms that allow you to mine blocks.
This only works if you assume the bidders either don't see this coming (and yield early), or that the bidders are personally acquainted and on good terms. The solution in the latter case is to yield early and go grab lunch/drinks with the winner, then work your way into the winner paying for at least part of your end of the bill.
You could have just been like: Me: Hey Billy. Why don’t I pay one cent and and you pay two and then we split the 100 50-50? Billy: sure! That’s what I would have done...
Now you have the prisoner's dilemma, where if you cooperate you gain $41 or so, but if you bid $7 you gain $93. So if you still make the "rational decision" based only on profit/loss you will keep bidding !
The game can be won of course. You and your friend start it. Your friend gives $1 and you give $3 then you both stop bidding. When you win the $100 for only $3 give your friend $25 and keep $75 thats it.
@@Deathnotefan97 yes , but the one who runs the lottery always wins , that`s why in most countries only state owned organizations are allowed to run lottery
In Economics that'd be a cartel. An inherent flaw of a cartel is that cheating the agreement is more profitable for the individual. Nonetheless, they can still form if all parties are willing to compromise and trust greedy partners.
HI THERE, YOU. I took the summer off to write a book. I was able to get 10 chapters finished, looked at the calendar, and realized it was time to get back to you. So I'm back. Hello. I will work on the book during weekends until it's finished. For now, expect more videos, more frequently. And as always... thanks for commenting.
Hello there. What's the book about?
Whats it about?
I'm so happy you are back!
I tell billy that dude don't go higher, let's buy the 100 dollar for my 10 while you put 5 dollars, let him have 15...we still get 85 back.... and lets split it .....and YOU, the 100 dollar owner, LOSE ..hahaha
Great video, what's the book about?
1: bid 10$
2: tell your friend not to bid
3: split the won 100$ in half
But you only get 40$ in the process whilst Billy gets 50$. Should be 40/60
Edit: checked my math again and it's supposed to be 55/45 so you get 55$ and your friend gets 45$ since you're the one who bet 10$ you should have 10$ more when you get the profit if you want equal profit (lmao 9 months late)
If you followed my last, incorrect math, the profit the two of you get will be 50$ and 40$.
@@namp2018 it doesn't matter because you still win.
@@stanisawswierczynski23 you guys missed the part where the bidders can't cooperate
• AoSpring • then ur getting 50, and your friend 40...Should more be like 55/45
Better yet
1:bid 10$
2: tell your friend not to bid
3:Don't split the won 100$ in half and keep all of it
Kevin: hey! Want $100 for just $1?
Billy: I’ll give you $5!
Me: * knocks Billy out *
😂😂💀
😂😂
What did i do?
@@sixela6 Please go to this link:
www.reddit.com/r/beetlejuicing/
I'll Give you 70$!
Me: $99 on my first bid
Billy: has no reason to place a bid
Me: wins $1
Billy would bid 99.99, then you would bid 100, and both of you would be f*&%ed up hahah if you meant 99.99, I agree with you
@@TheDanielBentes no bc 1$ will not seem valuable enough to billy so he will not bid
Lost 99*
Stonks
the game only starts at the second bidding
Title:”the game you can’t win”
Me after watching the video: I can I just have to be the one selling the 100$
no no hes got a point
Zappy hopefully he doesn’t poke someone with it
Sure, but if he convinces the other two they can't win... then neither can you since they won't play. ;-)
Nice to meet you Mr. Gates sir!
Then you yourself aren't playing the game, so are neither winning nor losing the game. You are gaining profit from the meta circumstance surrounding the game, but you aren't winning the game itself.
Shipping cost: *$1000*
rip lol
lolll
Lmao😂😂
By the way I am Virat Kohli Captain of Indian Cricket Team hahahahahahaha
Australian Shiping Cost. 10000000 dollars
Australian Shiping Cost. 10000000 dollars
*Lol I did this with my friends but they took my $100 and beat me up lol it was awesome*
@Attack Helicopteryeah they're my best friends when I buy them stuff
lol you're the best
jimmy fox GOLD DIGGERS
jimmy foxx
jimmy 🤠
Bold of you to assume I can bid over $20
Bold to assume we could bid over 2¢
Bold of you to assume I can bid over 0 cents
Lol
Ralsei lol
What is a c with the two lines
Friend: hey 1 dollar for 100
Me: ok
Billy: I got 5 dollars
Me: let’s just split it
Billy: ok
Friend: wait no
Ez win
But maybe Billy doesn’t like you much?
The Nailsage Of Geo then you tell him that it is no point loosing profit
@@OgreManGaming It's said that he's your friend
That’s why capitalist governments go after communist countries. (:
Just keep bidding forever. He'll never collect his profit because game is still in play.
Yeah just use ( 1 cent added ) cents and take a pause for 5 seconds to bid
1 whole dollar would take take 1000 seconds for you to bid in the game ( you do 500 seconds and your opponent does another 500 so the time for you to bid 1000 seconds ) and till y'all get to 99 dollars 99000 seconds will pass and that's over 1500 hours which is over two or three months
The game ends when the cash ends... meaning someone is bound to get broke and not able to bid no more thus the other person bidding wins
Then we can just say there is a time limit to prevent those types of people.
@@benjaminh2994 you can say whatever you want but it doesn't fall within the the original rules. You can't just make up rules of the game as you go along.
Just tell the other person to stop bidding and you can split the $100
Ikr
Lol true
yeah its true..
thats exactly what I thought
100th like les goo
Just get your two most competitive friends and your set.
you are
@@mauntaxthelegend3188 no
@@Dogbonee yes
@@mauntaxthelegend3188 no
@@mauntaxthelegend3188 you wanna pay 100$ to prove me wrong?....
I did this with my friends and earned $74.45
thanks vsauce
LMAO really?
Your friends are really dumb
They should have stopped bidding and split the 100
Morallity is a poor mans quality
You mean prior friends?
I wouldn't want to be your friend
1:37 jokes on you, I don't have friends
*_MEGA OOF_*
Me too I have abanned all of them today
yiay man
You beat me to the joke damn
This is actually sad
if billy is your friend agree to split it 51-49
if billy bids $2, you don't talk to billy anymore
Sadly the paradox is for NC or noncooperative behavior only. So this would be a great way to beat the game with cooperative behavior, but that's not allowed for the circumstances. I believe he confused everyone when he said friend. It would have been a better analogy to say that you're playing against a stranger. At around 5:41 it shows the article that talks about why this game only works with NC behavior.
Me and the bois: no me pay
Friend: no me
Friend2: no me
Me: guys stop if i pay 1$ and i get 34$ we all get 33$ profit
Who would ever partake in an auction where you pay your losing bid? Tf?
me
Cool beans
Thanks for not making me have to make this comment!
with two players, its the same as a penny auction with two players. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bidding_fee_auction
Everyone that enters a casino?
Billy: "I bid one dollar"
Me a extremely competitive person : "I bid you my kids , my house , my access card to the white house and my dog"
I thought Karen already took your kids
J W
OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Supa hot fire
You don’t say “a extremely”. Because the a is before a vowel sound you say an instead of a!
@@lucaarmstrong6375 Quarantine made you do it, isn't it?
NOT THE PUPPY DOG 🐶
I have never heard of paying your losing bid.
TheDivineChaos poker
TheDivineChaos Neither have I.
victor laget that is a bet not a bid
RealDarkBlade my bad, sorry
@@lukesanderson7608 u still own the stock tho as opposed to nothing
How to win the game.
Immediately bid $99.99 before the other person has a chance to make a bid.
The other bidder doesn’t yet hold a commitment to the bid, and thus has no incentive to outbid you.
then you make a useless 1 penny
And you need to actually have the cash
Yeah and if you stop then just run away and dont pay
Then the auctioneer's shill bidder bids $100 so they can get your $99.99. Penny Auction sites would pull that sometimes.
Lol
they bid a $1.00 i bid $2.00 and agree to split the difference. we both walk away with $48.50 and the seller gets $3.00 isn't that a win?
matthew lucenti lmao why would i do that if i can get 100?
@@online_cat because the longer the bidding war goes on the more we would both lose in profit
You wouldn't get 100 because you'd have to pay for it. It will never be 100. The 2 players should agree to cheat the other guy. Player 1 bets 1. Player 2 bets 2. Player 1 quits.
Agreed.
I was just gonna write that 👍
This officially proves why Vsauce is so rich
Just don't bid. Or both parties can agree to flip a coin, the winner bids one dollar.
To flip a coin for 100 dollars it's a lot
@Zyri Blackwood you are right, I corrected it
Even if you refuse to bid your opponent will then be willing to bid a dollar, and win 99$. They feel no need to cooperate with you at a 50% chance for 50$
You can rationalize at this point that gaining nothing is the best you can do but you can never force cooperation.
Billy and I team up. I bid $1, he bids $2 then we stop and split your $100.
I then shoot Billy in the back and run off with the cash.
What a dumb idea.
Just shoot the auctioneer and never bid. Less steps
Or... you could Just rob a bank! why have 100 bucks when you can have 100000$
4)summon yog sothoth
2 dollars for murder. nj
I just robed a bank ...Can you hide me from the poli ? For at least ...10 days?? Pls (you have become my complis)
"The only winning move is not to play" - Joshua
tic tac toe...good call !
ME: hey friend I only have 5 dollars
FRIEND: I only have 6 dollars
ME: ill bid 5 you bid 6 and split the 100
easy win win for both
I was thinking the same
Stolen comment
''friend''
Billy isn't that smart or cooperative.
up you stay
That’s when you pay your friend to throw the game and split the profit.
I tell billy that dude don't go higher, let's buy the 100 dollar for my 10 while you put 5 dollars, let him have 15...we still get 85 back.... and lets split it .....and YOU, the 100 dollar owner, LOSE ..hahaha
@عمر حليله
There are no other players present in this example, otherwise they would have entered the game somewhere between 15 and 99 dollars.
So his tactic is a definite win.
not that anyone would ever wanna play this game to start with
Exactly what I was thinking (if there are only 2 bidders)
Even if you don't conspire, no time limit was set. We could be bidding till the end of our lives and then there is no point.
why would anyone agree to "a game" where they would have to pay their bid regardless if they win or lose
Right? just makes no sense
Thought experiment
You
like the lottery?
MinTubeDk it’s called gambling.
3:12 that's bassically how the lottery works, on a smaller scale.
lol what do you think a lottery is
Bassically that’s not how auctions work.
I once bought a fake dollar for a dollar so I could fool all my friends into thinking I had a real dollar.
Cool
*now this is **_EPIC_*
When you put all your skill points in intelligence
*Harvard wants to know your location*
Lucky. For a dollar, I could only choose between fake vomit and real vomit.
It's funny that you think someone is gonna play it in the first place.
Rules up front or not. This scenario would never happen.
@@tomfarley226 actually assuming they dont know the game and still know the rules 100 dollars seems a little too good to be true but kinda worth trying because before they even start playing their first thought is "what do i got to lose"
yeah and also having people pay up their losing bid, just won't happen
Brother?
@@atomic_guy3528 IBF closen down. Pu nepo IBF. Open FBI up.
What if you both stop at 5 dollars and just spilt profit
Team up with billy and you both win.
Zhang Wei but who tf would team with billy hes a weirdo
If you offered me that I would not accept, I would bid 10$ to win 90$, because you are too afraid to keep going after 5$.
Cooperate.
luther schultz your refusal might trigger his ego and make him keep going until you both lose.
Kevin: that seems like a dea- oh wait your friend Billy wants to bid with $5
Me: Billy I swear to god-
A game you can never win
*LIFE*
Wubba dubba Dub dub You cant win , but you can master it.
I can win it you just can't survive it.
Not unless your bill gates he sold his mansion to pay the bills
More like monopoly
The only way to win, is to quit.
ill bid 1 buck and split it with my friend
out played the player
Exactly
Have Player1 bid $1 & Player2 bid $2. They get in return $100. Give Player1 $49.5 & Player2 $50.5. In the end, each gets a profit of $48.5. And Bidder loses $97.
That assumes your opponent cooperates. Sometimes winning is a pride thing, people are illogical.
that's what I was thinking throughout this entire video! he said the person is your friend, so why not make a deal with your friend where one person bids the $1 for the $100 and then split
Sounds like me and my friend have a gambling problem...
Jim Cooper
Lol 😂
My friend and i*
Do you have a science show “Bill Neigh”
So this is just everything everyone always told me about gambling and casinos, except it can actually be logically proven. Neat.
For all the people that says 'that's not how bidding works' or 'why would the losing party pay'. He isn't talking about an auction you can put on Amazon. He is talking a situation where he offers two people in person a 100 dolar bill to whoever pays the more and at 1:39 he stated that there was a catch so all parties involved knew that if they didn't outbid the other they would lose. That's the core essence of the game if the loser kept the money the auction wouldn't go pass 100 dollar but as he explain. once the profit margin goes to zero you still want to keep paying so you won't lose as much. So yea it's not an auction it's a scam
That's exactly how penny auctions work, except usually in those EVERYONE who loses pays.
And amusingly, it's a rule common in gambling.
If the catch is announced after initial round of bidding you will withdraw from auction taking your bid because rules changed. But what if the catch is there but is not so obvious. For example investor wants to build high building and say only companies owning high crane can enter the auction. The company A buys the crane for 5XXX$ and enter the auction bidding 10XXX$ for construction and then company B buys the crane for 5XXX$ and bid 9XXX$. Then company A must bid $8XXX just to not lose 5XXX$ and the bidding goes down to 5XXX$ meaning no profit for company but at least not to loose price of the crane. The other company will then bid 4XXX$ to reduce the loss from 5XXX$ to 4XXX$ and so on.
The video points out that there are such games by using trivial example.
Actually surprisingly a war works that way too. And the winning one is only the arms dealer
Jan Tauš Why XXX instead of the abbreviation K?
unless me and billy make a cartel agreement to stop bidding after 10 bucks and split your 90
Or just let one guy bid a dollar and the second guy not bid at all, then split the $99.
@@my3dviews Your 100% right
Yup.
My3dviews no, because then why would i share the 99$ with the bidder who bid nothing.
NawtNCosmic just out of gratitude for not continuing the bid
“I bid $1.”
*turns to face bidding partner*
I’ll give you $48 to not outbid me.
He'd make a maximum of 50.99 more choosing to outbid you.
Could possibly make ~$99 more than me by choosing to outbid me. But the point is to force the aforementioned backward induction into the open, and hope my partner follows the same path to the "oh, this jerkass was hoping to rip us off" result instead of competing with me.
If Partner chooses to bid $2, then I will stop and lose my $1 and say "I am not outbidding you on purpose" and hope they place some value in cooperation. After all, it barely affects me to lose $1 and doesn't affect me at all if Game Player has that ~$100 versus Partner getting it. I am betting on their charity (and a bit of "revenge" versus the game-player) eliciting quick cooperation and the possibility of gratuity, whether it amounts to "even split" or not.
You assume he'd think that far.
You assume you'd think that far.
But I do get your points, and don't wish to debate them.
Obviously my ability to call out the backward induction component can only happen if I realize it. 😛
But the situation is one of those "too good to be true so there has got to be a catch" situations like "doubling grains of rice on a chessboard" and cause a resonable amount of "let's think this through" from both parties before it got too far.
A more interesting variant might be a one-round, blind bid. No communication, and an almost certain "over $100" win for Game Player because the parties are just trying to think of "juuuuust the right bid" against their opponent once, and now have a potentially-snowballing situation.
What about the 200 other people at the party?
I tried this with my parents. I'm on a one week home detention now. thanks, vsauce!
Why what happened? 😆 🤣 😂
spoiler:
the game is club penguin island
CactusTeam Club Penisland for short 🍆
more like club pissing island
That's why I play club penguin rewritten
DUDE i had a club penguin video after this video wtf
"Hey Billy, i'll let you win it with your 10$ bid and we split the gain, deal?"
Deal. Except I want 5 more dollars because I'm giving him 10 so it will be an even split then.
Exactly.
After that moment, Bill was never ever seen again.
"No? Ok. Fine. I'll just eat the $5 loss to spite the dealer and disincentivise him from attempting scams like this in future. It's still better than the alternative."
That would actually be illegal as it is illegal to make deals with other bidders to lower prices for an auction.
I didn’t bid anything. Stop making fake accusations.
Fake news confirmed
@MaverickMedia100 who is billy
@@tarshej.2242 The guy in the video?
Hi Billy
@@foxwhite25 the comment just didn't really make sense imo
You: *bids over $100*
Billy: *bids over $100*
Host: "Well, thanks for playing! Gotta run!" *takes off with his winnings*
You and Billy: "Wait a minute-!"
The host wouldn't leave, he would wait for you and Billy to keep bidding (possibly up to 1,000$).
Impossible to win except the auctioneer? Hold on, What if I made an arrangement with my mate that one of us stops at a low amount and he gives me say 30% of the profit?
it was a study on "non-cohoperative behavior" so you have to assume you will never team up with your opponent
What if the auctioneer arranges before with one of the bidder? No, ok, that's just fraud...
@@UnQualsiasiUtente But he explicitly said 'Billy' was my friend. I'm not paying a red cent to someone that moves the goalposts.
I'd lose on purpose to spite the auctioneer
I think the only way to “win” without collusion is to bid $99.99 for the very first bid, you gain $.01 and your competition loses nothing.
What a strange game, where the only winning move is not to play.
Finally. Had to scroll through 100 comments to find the right one. ;)
You can win tho
If there is no way to win, it was never a game, only a con
tipical Loto/gambling
Sounds like dating haha
Since when does a losing bidder ever have to pay the auctioneer if they do not actually buy the auctioned item
Poker
Poker is not an auction.
Buying stocks in a race to own a company
you still own your share's worth of that company even if you don't get controlling share
exactly
This game is also displayed in an anime, it was really interesting seeing how it ended.
Kakegurui XX
Final Episode
Game: Hundred Votes Auction
Finally a person who knows kakegurui
@@monirhasan3248 XD it's a pretty good anime
kakegurui. the anime i never want to see/hear about again
Actually the solution is simple :
KICK THE HOST GET THE CASH AND RUN !!
Actually talk to your friend, so you pay 1 dollar and 2$ then you split it 50/50 after
Dude it was a joke
r/wooosh
I know it was a joke
Or bid $1 and and tell billy I’ll give u $10 if u don’t bet against me. That way u walk away with $89
He lets me buy it for $1 and we split 99.
Maybe that's cheating a bit.
cheating a cheater
That is why the paper said this applies to non-cooperative behaviors.
He smile and say let me pay the dollar. You are flattered as it saves you a dollar. He wins the bid and keeps the 100$ and you learn a life lesson of no cooperation.
With that in mind why would they trust you if you are a totally rational being? What could you say that make them believe you would give up 50$ when nothing is forcing you to in the game.
who gonna get the last dollar
I just found my new job, thanks!
*BICH WTF*
People are not that dumb to do that, it's really rare, also if someone bets 10$ and no one else bets then you loose 90$, anyways no one will even find your selling because your probably not that famous on eBay or any selling app.
"And thats the easiest 80 dollars your friend billy has ever made, hopefully"
Simplest way to win :
Get into an agreement with Billy
My bid : 10$
Billy : 20$
I lose..Billy gets 80$
Split it up (Both make profit)
The dealer loses✌🏻.
Wear protection!
Or:
My bid: 50$
Billy's bid: 60$
i let billy take the cash, he'll still lose 20 dollars.
@@randomcommenterheredontmin4390 No he doesn't. He gains 40.
@@AppleOfThineEye oh youre roght
Dead thunderer and the auctioneer gets a $10 profit
I'll just take all the money and.....
Run
I'm faster then you☻
True
@@arthurharris1235 Thats what his friend said to his girlfriend
*drops the bass*
@@connorcclarke taa ta tatataatatatatata taaa ttaa😁😁
"A strange game... The only winning move is not to play"
I sense a man of culture.
"You've been trolled, you've been trolled, have a nice day!"
WarGames
These all-pay auctions are based on the assumption the players can't cooperate with each other. It's a paradox because even bidding can be a way of communication (and outbidding as well, as a punishment) and not doing so is actually against their self-interest. So the game requires the players to act against their self-interest (simply demanding each player live only inside its bubble: a.k.a assuming everything the other player do is random or irrational) to prove they get negative payoffs in doing so... that's why I dont like these frameworks.
Over infinite repetitions this become evident: both players would eventually simply take turns in single-handedly bidding different items, because every time they dont they will get punished.
Yup, various video games include all-pay auctions, to make it work, they don't let you see other bids.
But in the real auction, you don’t have to pay the losing bid so you just keep bidding to outbid the others and at the same time, get something at a better value. But in this game, you try to outbid the other and also bid to minimize your loss.
@@zarifshoeb Yeah, but in this all-pay auction the issue is: you wouldnt need to minimize your losses if you could rationaly predict what the other player will do. This game doesnt have assymetry of information, both players can predict each-other movements. Its assumed they simply dont and that 'no communication' rules just take out the obvious fault in the framework. They are not perfectly rational. If you assume the other player is irrational, the best strategy becomes not playing at all. 0 losses. Or if you are first, bidding the maximum -1 unit. This way your outcome at least is always positive.
Id just bet one dollar and then let the other guy take it, just to screw with the auctioneer. Pay a dollar to force someone else to give away 99 :D
CybranM give away $97 you mean he still gets your dollar and billy's two dollars
if he's my friend I'd just say "stop betting and we split the 100$".
If we are going to be sticklers he did say "you and your friend" not "you and a stranger" its fair to assume that you and a good friend would rather work together than compete.
Asayake Exactly what I came to comment!
If you listen the explanation and the study closely it was stated - with good reason - that it works only in a "non cooperative" enviroment. Ofc you guys can cooperate and share the gain in a real situation, but the whole premise of the hypothetical expreiment was that you are not cooperating and so you both go for the win without negotiation. And don't think this would be an unrealistic setup in a competitive enviroment where the numbers are a bit more obfuscated and the competition is fierce enough. (sometimes gaining an advantage against a competitior is just literally losing less than them)
Really nice to see you back! You're genuinely one of my favourite educational creators and in my opinion one of the most underrated.
Ai raggione anke se io nn capischo qll ke dice
he's got 3.9 million subscribers and this video has been watched 49,707 times in 3 hours, how the hell is he underrated?
dummdumm muddmudd He is not too underrated but a bit underrated..
"That's the easiest 80 bucks Billy has ever made... Hopefully" ......
What does it mean?
...MURDER!!!
LeBro or prostitution
Justin Y. He said “easiest 80 bucks billy has ever made, hopefully”, which means that he hopes billy hasn’t acquired this 80 in an easier way...
...LIKE MUUURRRDER!!!
LeBro Murder is not easy
LeBro What Ryan said
This is probably one of the most intriguing videos on TH-cam and I love to be on the other side of things and making that sweet sweet profit is the bidding escalates
What if i buy it for 1$ and split it with billy.
PalanticHD then you are a communist
That's insider trading no deal.
@Don Kapsalon the escallations i'd use would be 1.00, then after 5.00 i'd go 5.01 and thus the battle of cents begins
PalanticHD Billy has no gurantees, he would want to buy it and split it with you, but now you don’t have any guarnatees
Literally every mom: you cant win or lose if you dont play
Me:
"As long as everyone playing makes a rational decision". That's ironic, the people who were irrational in beginning the game all of a sudden have to start acting rationally due to how irrational they were at the start.
4:46 You know the rules... and so do I!
Just when I thought I was safe...
a no-win situation sounds like the scientific term for my life
Orily Lelouch?
There's also a game where you try and convince a Flat Earther that no, the government is not paying people to lie of the Earth's true form and that the Earth has actually been scientifically proven to be spherical.
You can't win this game either.
Shiny Mathew if ur rich then take them to space and let them see the earth fully
@@a.asolus7564 the windows are actually screens that make it look like the earth is round
Leonathor then tell them to replace the screens with the real windows that u buy from china
@@leonathor4005 That's when you eject them from the spacecraft and let them see for themselves.
Kaneki Ken it would be just an illusion. #flatearth #flatearth2020
Caveat: iff Billy and I cooperate, we could both turn a tidy profit.
My thoughts also haha, was hoping the moral of the story was teamwork lol
Yeah, I found it strange how vsauce dude completely disregarded that option, that was literally the first thing I thought of!
Xellos357 its a good moral, teamwork is the only way to win... i think the study itself at least implied that, but Vsauce not mentiining it is silly
I came across this for the first time in Nat Geo's Brain Games. They set up an auction to experiment with random people. Goes well till it is $100 for $100 note. Then people started smelling the problem 😂😂😂😂
I’ll bid $99.99 immediately.
Then someone pays 100$ and you lose 99$
@@kyoyoberry he means before the other guy bids, so the other guy has nothing to lose and lets you get it cause he has nothing to win by bidding 100 to get 100
But the starting bet is $1 which means that the guy who bid the dollar before you can go from -1 dollars to 0 flat, a rational decision which now puts you at risk of 99.99 then the train starts
Yes you can fact check me (he makes it very clear that the bid starts at $1)
But what if no one else bids, then you get a penny rather than a whole 99$.
If Billy is my friend, why wouldn't he juste pay 1 buck and then we share the 99$ ?
No, because Billy is a selfish prick who doesn't like to share
Damn you, Billy
It's simple. We kill the Batman
Better yet, if Billy secretly gives me 50 cents, then I can put in 50 cents and each of us will make a $49.50 profit
Why not $0.02? Then we each get $99.98.
Who in their right mind would agree to bid in an auction where you still have to pay even if you lose?
Anyone who bids those penny bids like quibids where you have to pay for your bids.
EBay’s missed a trick here 😂
you cant win at powerball or the track either so why not
th-cam.com/video/pA-SNscNADk/w-d-xo.html
*The second highest bidder not everyone
This works at parties or with groups of 3 people, as one person will never have to pay, they can "drop out" and stop bidding while the other two are stuck now.
7:15
It's like "Sometimes the only way to live a life is to not live it.".
You can't win because the game was rigged from the start.
Ikr
fr the losing bid has to pay too like wtf
I hope this is a New Vegas reference.
🤯
The House always wins
billy : 1 dollar
me: 101 dollar
we both know we are not gonna win so this will be my game plan
Then you guys are just giving away the $2 in that case i'll send you my paypal & shoot it my way.
Well, since Billy is a stubborn boy who doesn't want to lose even a buck, he would then bet 102 to save himself for the moment, and the game continues...
@@vinayaksidharth5088 Billy is immortal.
Wow, you are a genious
@@daimao7392 @Dai Mao you're not very smart
if he bid 102, he'll lose 2 then which is worse than losing 1 so he won't do that
op's proposed solution is actually very smart, both of you just lose 1 each
What if after a $1 bid, somebody immediately jumped to $99? Then any amount of foresight would tell you to lose the $1
Benjamin Brady most likely, unless they try to be clever and bid 99,99 at which point you would still be screwed
Cookie As Arrow true but at that point, Billy is just being stubborn
Benjamin Brady I would expect some people would even go to 100 just to screw with you, that's where game theory breaks apart, but if everyone was rational and non communicative everyone would lose.
Cookie As Arrow yeah. At least you can always end the game by bidding $100.01 above the last bid
Smart
The first 0:45 seconds is just Kevin flexing how much money he has
Lol ill just tell the other Guy ill stop Bidding if He gives me 50$
vin31_ then I would comply and not give you the moneyz
Its non colaporative
@@Armoliver Everything is non colaporative because there's no such a word as colaporative.
@@HKIHNDKNSI lol I read shark
...one of the slickest con jobs I've seen in years...
John Chalinder or an easy way for you and your friend to make an easy 50 bucks. Just out bid your friend or let your friend out bid you by a dollar take the 100 you or your friend wins split it 50-50 you and your friend just made 50 by only spending $3.....
If this is a slick con to you, you've already been ran up and down your life savings, 401k, future will, and even maxed out credit and that's just between your grandchildren.
Con artists have assistants for this. They will outbid you no matter what you do so if you join the con's game you already lose.
But how much does "losing", weigh?
made my day
And can you eat it?
Good question :O
Weigh my dude
1. Get 2 guys
2. Weight them.
3. Let them play a game for two.
4. Measure the weight again of whoever loses. The difference between the two measurements is how much losing weighs.
5. Profit?
Me: watching this
My brain : *💤 *
I don't think that's how bidding works.
@The FBI r/whoooosh
the only way to win this game is to bid 99$ first bid, that way no one would want to bid 100$ for 100$ at you, not a fancy win but it's a win.
But they wouldnt lose anything if they bid 100 dollars
Jack Shiel They would. The other person had to bid 100,01 Dollars then.
@@brunobar4808 amd i would bid 100,02. 2 cents arent worth anything
@@Near_Void and hed bid $ 100.03 see where this is going?
No you still wouldn't win, I would bid 100 dollars just so you lose 99, then we would continue to bid on each other
Am i missing something? Who would agree to pay a losing bid? I also would like to point out that you didn't point that out in the beginning. You just asked how much would you give. Not you pay if you lose.
Classic bait and switch
Bitcoin mining escalation comes to mind...
Bitcoin mining is not an auction. It's more like labor. You use your graphics card, which is running on electricity you have to pay for, to solve algorithms that allow you to mine blocks.
Whoever plans to win
and if it was pointed out in the beginning, i'm sure you and other guy can agree to just not outbid each other and share the profits
You and Billy talk before the game starts:
*psst*! I'll pay 1$ for that bill and then we split it 1/2 each, k?
Sure!
This only works if you assume the bidders either don't see this coming (and yield early), or that the bidders are personally acquainted and on good terms.
The solution in the latter case is to yield early and go grab lunch/drinks with the winner, then work your way into the winner paying for at least part of your end of the bill.
Non-cooperative behaviors mentioned in the paper and only rational behavior applies, no backwards induction -- assumptions already stated.
You could have just been like:
Me: Hey Billy. Why don’t I pay one cent and and you pay two and then we split the 100 50-50?
Billy: sure!
That’s what I would have done...
And ur not drunk
Again: non cohoperative behaviour.
100th like
Me and Billy bid $6 and split the $94.
That requires "basic human interaction". So both loses. /s
That's good game theory. A better auctioneer would set it up so that the bidders could not communicate.
Now you have the prisoner's dilemma, where if you cooperate you gain $41 or so, but if you bid $7 you gain $93. So if you still make the "rational decision" based only on profit/loss you will keep bidding !
@@acetate909 If the bidders can't communicate the best bed probably is not to play.
1:36
bold of you to assume I have friends
There is a way to win, of course. It goes like this:
Billy - "I'll bid $2"
Kevin - "I'll bid $3"
Billy - "Kevin, if you quit now, I'll pay you $49"
it was a study on "non-cohoperative behavior" so you have to assume you will never team up with your opponent
So he essentially conducted a study to prove that scams work on drunk people? k.
Why not make a profit from the experiment and the results? :P kinda meta huh?
When people are drunk they don't think like they would if they're sober
Yeah plus giving away a couple bucks is not the same as couple hundred clams, that's a lot of cheese for some folks
But the nash equilibrium mean that me and billy conspire against you, and split the profit
Solution concept of a >>non-cooperative
The game can be won of course. You and your friend start it. Your friend gives $1 and you give $3 then you both stop bidding. When you win the $100 for only $3 give your friend $25 and keep $75 thats it.
im confused. why would the losing bid pay anything?
Milwaukee Atheists its the added catch of the game
Those are the rules
Yeah but you can just walk away, rules are arbitrary
That's why you always carry what I like to call the "Negotiator."
Most call it a glock.
He did add that out of nowhere.
me and billy could be teaming up. And stop at like 1 dollar
What if your "friend" Billy is a Shill?!? Then this is a slick con... but don't be shill Billy, be a friend.
PLOT TWIST: The $100 was actually a movie-prop note.
Just be first and bid $100 and tell the other guy to thank you later.
Bid 99.99 free penny
this is called the lottery my friends
the house always wins.
Except people actually win the lottery sometimes
@@Deathnotefan97 yes , but the one who runs the lottery always wins , that`s why in most countries only state owned organizations are allowed to run lottery
You mean the casino
If one lucky person buys on ticket for the lottery and wins...that person makes profit $$$
Yo, I buy it for $1 then we split the profit
i don´t trust you. let me buy it for $2 and i will split it
@@MsIrrealis damn good one
Ad Addv split or steal in a nutshell
yeah as someone said, it immediately changes into prisoners dilema :)
In Economics that'd be a cartel. An inherent flaw of a cartel is that cheating the agreement is more profitable for the individual. Nonetheless, they can still form if all parties are willing to compromise and trust greedy partners.
Triple H was right!!
"ITS ALL ABOUT THE GAME, AND HOW YOU PLAY IT!"
slushii_soldier ITS ALL ABOUT CONTROL AND IF YOU CAN TAKE IT
ITS ALL ABOUT YOUR DEBT, AND HOWLL YOULL PAY IT
I never expect this kind of comment
Ok I have officially found the weirdest comment on TH-cam and I love it
"Buying $100 with $99"
Me as an adult : *Stonks*