About the only thing I didn't like was the "FAA says that any off pavement landing can be considered careless and reckless". This entire channel is doing stuff like that but they don't seem to mind. We've got seperate issues in canada too - I am studying for the PSTAR and it says that any recording of in flight radio communications is illegal, yet many channels (yours included) this is done all the time. Maybe we need some clearer, up to date rules so we can all be sure that we are staying legal.
@@islandfd3s The key in that legal speak is 'can be', they arent against off pavement landings when properly judged and fit for purpose but they need that legal interpretation area for the odd and unusual cases that are unduly reckless. Unfortunately that line will be constantly redrawn as more and more landings are made
@@islandfd3s At least this person TRIED to assist in understanding the sense behind the rules. I'd say "big up" to that FAA official. I just can't understand why you'd get slapped with a book if you take a calculated risk anyhow. I know, highly debatable, but its about flying, not talking. Anyhoooo
If you remove the context of this video (water skiing) this is a great conversation starter about personal minimums and comfort vs. experience in the airplane. I think that leads to a much bigger conversation about safety in the airplane. I like that you were willing to share this and actually discuss the topic. Even if it is a heated debate I think the overriding theme of this video is extremely valuable. Good video Trent!
Trent, as an active CFI, I can say you covered the bases very well. The subject of backcountry flying has seen a lot of focus in the last 10 years and the FAA is ill prepared to deal with the adventurists of aviation. When aviation was new it was common place for a pilot to assess a LANDING AREA and make their own judgments, but the technics for this are no longer taught in FAA curriculums as part of the pilots knowledge. That being said, you have to search hard to find instructors willing to teach the technics long used by barnstormers to criss cross our great nation. I applaud your vision to venture out and bring the camera as witness to the beauty beyond the pavement and hope you will continue to urge your followers to assess everything they choose to do with the FAA in mind. They are trying to catch up. The best way to do anything well is PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE. Be careful out there and let me know when the 1200 hour BOGEYMAN spanks you. LOL It will happen.
@@syitiger9072 BUT, that's also a risk that you're willing to take. You've done the risk assessment, and decided that it's okay. Now, I'm going to assume you're talking about a motorcycle, and maybe you're doing something like The Snake for your first time. Would you do it with a passenger, or would you ride solo? All part of the risk assessment. So, yeah, you can ride above your limits, but hopefully you've looked at all the possible outcomes.
Your style is so transcendental ...proximity flying eats up the buffer for the anomaly., but your speeds make it survivable...no riskier than motocross. This is the most intriguing flying I have ever seen as I am considering to awaken my dormant license and pursuing this skill set. Thanks.
Great video Trent, one of the scariest things about flying in 2019 is knowing that nearly every single person you see has a high definition camera in their pocket and any mistake or use of grey area in the FARs can cost your ticket. Glad that you didn't lose your license over that deal. I think off-airport operations appear to be dangerous not only to the non-pilot but also to the pilot who's never even landed on a well maintained grass strip. You do a great job on your channel showing how safe and enjoyable it really is. Thanks to you and the flying cowboys for promoting GA in a recreational way.
How is this kid promoting GA? By ravaging the environment in his wannabe cub? By terrorizing the geese and duck and wildlife streamside? You have no clue, If I was the FAA ( I'm just a 30 year commercial pilot with 11,000 hours and much of tha in the bush ) I'd would have grounded his ass for 5 years.
There is an old saying....."Don't be THAT guy" Gentle is "THAT guy". Good grief.......ravaging the environment??????? by skimming the surface of the water........Really???? I feel bad for the young people of today because of people like this.
Trent, I don't think I've told you how awesome your intro is. The cinematography, the editing and especially the music. And it's the perfect length too. Not too long and not too short.
Hi Trent, I can't imagine anyone being a hater of your channel, it is alwas professional, amazing footage, and most times pilots can glean a little more knowledge by watching you videos. Two thumbs up buddy, don't listen to the haters none of the rest of us do..
I don't think I've ever seen you two so happy when sailing.... It's obvious that this catamaran is just perfect for the two of you.... Love the video, the love between you two and of course the sailing....God Bless!!!
Your operating handbook doesn’t say anything about landing anywhere because you fly an experimental. So according to that inspector, you would be careless and reckless for getting in an experimental which is clearly incorrect.
my experimental home built plane;) handbook did say about where you should and shouldn't land it, it also states how fast you should be going when approaching the runway from above glide path for gentle landing and the top speed for landing flying cruising the stall speed heck it even tells you how long you can fly based on if you are flying tailwind or head wind and characteristics and specifics of the operation plane, I registered . I know because observation, my mechanic, and diagnostic equipment told me the details and I typed them into the handbook for my experimental aircraft.
@@ericwilde3837 Yes exactly "I know because observation, my mechanic, and diagnostic equipment told me the details and I typed them into the handbook for my experimental aircraft". That's a far cry from what a certified aircraft would need to go through to have the same content added to its handbook. I recommend Trent just write in his handbook that his aircraft is designed for water skiing and call it a day.
Hi Trent, I liked your video on water skiing. I was taught by my instructor in a P.A. 18, he was acting as my instructor teaching off airport landings. We contacted the fisdo back when we had one, and they gave their blessing. He was also an air show pilot and he did a comedy routine. I was a commercial pilot with aerobatic experience. As an air show performer with a low altitude waiver you can practice, and or teach your act. When he did shows on the beach he included water skiing. Two things. We never did it during teaching in a place that a person would be close enough to film. Of course during the air show, his low altitude waiver, and the fact that the air show people were keeping the water around the air show free from boats and people, made it ok. When we practiced it, and when I now do it on my own, I am always aiming towards a landing spot that is legal to land on. We never had any problems with the FAA. Maybe their is a fine line between practicing to increase your skills and showing off. That is a concern of mine with your videos. As pilots we have trained and we know the risk. I hope someone doesn’t get hurt trying some of those things. You might want to include more cautious education in your videos as a whole, on the other hand will your explanation by way of education make you more liable if a newly minted Tailwheel pilot has an accident skiing using the information you provided?? I love your videos, I’m just looking out for you and the rest of the cowboys.
Same with any Government Entity. They won't be happy until everyone is limited to sitting in their easy chair just watching their T.V. or Computer all day long. Pretty much haven't gotten anything done this week because I've been binge watching Flying Cowboy Videos and looking up kit airplane dealers and prices.
FLY8MA did a video on this a while ago (since removed). I felt the risk discussion on that video was pretty unsatisfying, as he basically hand-waived any risk and even mocked future commenters about it. I really enjoyed this video, and your discussion of the risks of this was honest and balanced and good.
I thought I had seen that, But could not find it (obviously as it is now removed) I'm a Heli pilot but, the discussion that Jon had brought up and how he went about it was great. I went to show it to some fix wing pilots but alas the video is removed.
As an electrician this all sounds much like what I have dealt with before in that it’s all up to the interpretation taken by the inspector. Glad you didn’t get in more trouble and continue to rock on. Love your videos.
Hey Trent, did they provide copies of the "pictorial evidence?" I'm sure a shot of the # freedom fox waterskiing across Tahoe would look nice on the wall.
I don't know why Trevor Jacobs The Airplane-Crashing Asshole didn't think of trying to waterski an airplane --- or did he and I just don't know it yet?
How is this channel not huge? It should have at least 2 million. Maybe not a super popular subject, but not rare and definitely interesting. The videos are so well edited and he says everything so well while being humble about it.
Trent, I rarely comment on other people's videos, but I suspect that I'm a bit of a cowboy like you, and I do a lot of things you "probably shouldn't do". I think you handled this subject very admirably. There's GOING to be some Bozo who's going to try it, and because everyone is afraid to talk about it, Bozo will run the risk of serious injury or death because they are ignorant about the theory, and method of doing it. You did a great job of discussing the topic from an honest point of view. Our community is surprisingly small, and exceptionally gracious. I'm a low hours student who had the honor of flying from Portland to Palmer Alaska over a weeks time, (and documented it on TH-cam, shameless plug) and I'm a big fan of your work. Having done it myself, I respect the amount of work it takes to film edit and produce the videos you do. KEEP UP TGE GOOD WORK!!!
Trent, about 10 years ago I was in flight school at KLGU. Since I was a kid I had a dream of being a pilot and I was going to see it though and make a career of it. Part of the way though flight school I was diagnosed with Type One Diabetes. This really put me into a negative headspace for a long time as I felt like the only thing I really wanted to do was out of my reach. Fast forward to a couple months ago and I find these great videos of a dude named Trent Palmer and his friends flying bush planes. I love watching them but it gave me a sad pang every time too. Then today I had a realization, and sure enough a kit fox is a light sport aircraft. Holy cow I could actually do this! The world changed for me TODAY. Thank you Trent.
@@thegentlecraftsman4764 the video is not about killing anything, it's about the surface tension. WTH.... But, please do provide the example of birds, fish, ducks, ect being killed by airplanes watersking Lol.....
Excellent learning experience. Going to share with another TH-camr who is a low time pilot in the bush of Idaho - C-182 airplane which might benefit from large tires. Thanks from a pilot who lost a medical in 2010 with over 800 hours and many memories.
This is an interesting topic. I’ve always been curious about it. On the topic of 91.119a, even though your aircraft is near the surface, as long as you have plenty of airspeed, a zoom climb is always an option. I think that could have been a very viable argument.
You can skip the zoom climb, water is an acceptable emergency landing spot. Example Flight 1549, it was the prefered by the pilot over attempting a return to the airport. Like Trevor Jacob.
Great video, its a hard lesson to learn, and the FAA new policy on compliance is good change for all or us. Having spent 30 years in aviation as a career and dealt a lot with the FAA I understand where they come from. First remember the FARs "define the minimum acceptable standard for the safe operation of aircraft and the protection of persons and property". Like most things every one of those rules came about because someone screwed up. You knew water skiing down the middle of an open lake with a passenger on board was not a good idea, but got talked into it. I have been there myself (well not water skiing) only to look back and go what was i thinking. Oh and that thing about landing anywhere but a paved runway is reckless (I have seen a lot of comments below on that) because its not in the manual. With out knowing the full story, I'll take a guess at the hint he was trying to give you. 91.9 requires you to have a flight manual, which includes performance data. 91.103(b) requires you to make use of this data on preflight. So look at your manual, you have new wings, and a new engine. Have you revised the manual performance data, and does it included data for turf runway (both short, long and wet grass) in there. You are a talented stick and rudder pilot, you know what the aircraft can do, don't give it up. But after the accident, it only matters what you can prove, if you have no data, its reckless.
@@guylandia2150 Yes it is a legal game, but you missed the point, there's more to it. If you flip the aircraft over in the long wet grass (or the lake) and injure (or worse) your self and your passenger. Its not the FAA you need to worry about, just tell them I've done it before, its fine. Its Morgan and Morgan, for the people! The FAA may take your license for being reckless, but Morgan and Morgan will take everything else. Sure, you have insurance, but that's not going to pay all your legal fees, and having to live with those choices. The rules are there to make you stop and think, remember someone already screwed up, which is why there is a rule. Don't be afraid, live your life to the fullest, just stop and think, what if.
How can anyone hate your video’s?!! I’m always jealous but never hate the awesome fun you have! Keep them coming Trent. And thanks for taking the time to share.🍻
Wow, people got bent out of shape about this? Youre an experienced pilot, you know the dangers. Keep up the good vids, looking forward to the house and runway updates. All good stuff. Gave the vid a like
@Airstrip Kid the problem with that argument is the regulations apply to everyone. you can't make regulations for 1 type of person, but another set for a different type of person, that would be discrimination. and because of that, the regulations can't make exceptions between pilots who know their stuff, and those who don't drifting on an open road will get you fined, wether or not you are an experienced rally driver. same thing here i personally have no problem with it, if you know what you are doing. and trent does. the cowboy's all do i think.
Look, if they don't go hard after people at the start, when the experienced pilots are the ones experimenting, and make an example out of their cases, then when the noobs and idiots start killing themselves and eventually causing real accidents, the FAA will get blamed. You know some moron will push it for views and thrills, and they'll plow into a boat or kayak or something, or they'll kill someone on shore, or any number of other things could happen. The FAA need to cover their bases. Unless there is a threat of action, no one will stop or listen to mere requests. The idiots who don't know their limits (unlike the guy who made the video) and don't understand physics, are the ones who ruin everything for everyone.
@Airstrip Kid I'll agree with you, except on one point, and that's carrying passengers. You said, "if you know what your [sic] doing." The pilot may know what he's doing, but the passenger may not, and the passenger may not fully understand and recognize the inherent risks taken. Even if that passenger is another pilot, but who has never done waterskiing before.
My friend, CW, was killed strafing Lake Pleasant in Arizona and took out his passenger as well..they never skied but were batting the wings so his friend could see him on approach from the east toward the west...an inflection in the air currents caused the plane to dip on a bat and the plane cart wheeled in and sunk to 170 feet and not recovered for about 8 months later. I like your style as the aircraft you are using has much greater maneuverability, like a bi wing. and your relative speeds are amazingly low...being able to land and take off in 200' is amazing.
Good tips and insight, Trent! I always wondered how it's not against the min AGL FAR to fly as low as depicted in many online videos, although as youngsters we did it all the time over the prairie and hills of western Nebraska, almost always with passengers, but in certified aircraft. As far as I know, there was only 1 report of a low flying aircraft turned in to the FAA at BFF in the early 1970's, which was probably a friend and I. It's a rural area with cropdusters flying around all summer long surrounded by endless prairie with homes and outbuildings miles apart. I guess people back then weren't so quick to report something that had nothing to do with them, unlike the present mindset. Keep sharing as you can; always interesting!
Flight below 500ft is specifically allowed in sparsely populated areas, as long as the plane gets no closer than 500ft horizontally to any buildings, people or boats. however like so many things bureaucratic they fail to define the terms they use like "sparsely populated". The simple interpretation is that sparse is implied by the ability to be clear 500 feet horizontal on all sides, but this is up to individual interpretation.
@@mytech6779, thanks for the recap. It's been so long since I've flown I've probably forgotten most of what I learned about regs and such thru lack of use! It probably helped that we knew all the local FAA employees personally. I even worked with one of their wives while in college.
Great video! I'm not a back-country pilot, nor a tailwheel pilot (yet) but the enforcement action discussion reminded me of some advice I got from an old crusty Air Force Pilot. He told me when I think I'm doing something dumb, write the first line of the incident report in my head. Usually we read, "the non instrument rate pilot continued visual flight into instrument meteorological conditions...." Something like that. In 18 years of civil and military aviation, that thought has kept me safe. I've taken some risks, especially in my military career, but they were always thought out, calculated, and done with a plan. The worst I can say I've done as PIC is returning from my PPL Checkride in 2003, I requested a circle over my parents' house. I was with tower, at least 1500agl; not "buzzing," but low enough that they heard me and came out on the deck to see me. I'd do that again, but I'm overall pretty risk-averse.
Good job Trent. Don't the haters bother you. I have been a pilot for years, and this is something that could help you in a pinch type situation. It never hurts to know this stuff. Thanks for the video! Keep up the good work!!!
You paid for it, you fly it, you be responsible, you have fun, you forget about those who are jealous of you. Keep them coming buddy. Say hi to Nick for me and we're looking forward in seeing him again.
I got a lesson on 119 a from my FAA examiner during a check ride, he explained that when flying over water you must be able “glide” to land in the event of a power unit failure unless you have floats. Different aircraft glide ratios = different safe altitudes. This conversation took place over the Great salt lake, in a Schweitzer 300c. They drop like a rock so it was pertinent information lol.
Interesting and informative. I've always thought waterskiing is foolish and wouldn't do it myself, but I respect the rights of others who want to take the risk. But I admit if I were FAA, I probably wouldn't be very accommodating either. As I said, I've always thought it was a foolish thing to do. Although, to be fair, I don't fly risky but I do play pretty hard with my ATV's and such. So I guess we all choose where and with what we're willing to push our luck. I thought your points were well thought out and presented, and reasonable. Thanks for sharing!
You're doing the right thing with your flying Trent . Disregard haters and informers. If not for people like yourself, there would nothing called aviation in the first place.
The good side of it is that someday, when you have an aircraft full of passengers, and the engine starts to die, and you are looking for a place to land in the northern bush of Canada, and spot a small area to land but too short before you hit the bush, you will be able to use a little of the water as your runway, get down safely and save the lives of all your passengers. There is a good side to every bad thing that happens in life. Happy Flying
SO! Well don't what to say! But you are the best and you enjoy life! Keep doing what you like to do and don't let the haters ever get you down....and you don't have anything to be ashamed of. Thanks for your time to allow me to fly with you in your videos.
Your story of being violated and my experiences with the FAA really just pisses me off..... Edit: I had to wait a year to renew my medical certificate (no flying for A YEAR) because of a medical condition that I DON’T HAVE. The FAA decided to interpret the doctor’s evaluation that said there was nothing out of the ordinary (they always read it back to me) in their own way and then ignore two follow up letters that my doctor and I wrote. You just kind of have to go with their narrative, but damn I’m still a little annoyed by the fact it happened.
Been there done that, I was grounded in Australia by CASA for 1year due to being put on a medication for a medical condition. The amount of reports and BS i had to go through to get my medical sorted was a joke. Even though the condition had no effects on my flying, and neither did the medication.
Ozzy Chappell The ibuprofen. Obviously just joking, but they seriously regulate any type of meds due to the IMSAFE acronym. Illness, Medication, Stress, Alcohol, Fatigue, Emotion/Eating. You want to make sure all of that is in the green before you go fly. In terms of a headache, it could be a variety of things, but if you're new to flying, a headache can distract you from what's important in the cockpit. Basically if you're safe, you shouldn't need meds. That's my take from it anyways.
Been there still there lol my medical was revoked with a month of getting my PPL due to meds..haven’t been able to get it back in 8 years because of SSRI’s.
Inspectors are completely free to interpret the rules and regs however they want within reason, and there is very little recourse options an operator has to fight back, besides throwing many thousands of hard earned dollars at a possibly never ending Cort battle against the faa with unlimited resources. Hold fast trent! Don't let the paper pushers keep you down.
Doing what you do at the risk of no one but you and you are learning hot to be a really good pilot. Look what Sully learned in a glider I’m sure he pushed the limits at times. But his real world learning saved a lot of lives
My interpretation would be if you had an engine failure while waterskiing, you would be unable to make an emergency landing. But then again, you could apply this to flying over any sort of unforgiving terrain. If you had an engine failure over dense forest or rugged terrain, you would not be able to make an emergency landing without undue hazard either. So, I guess any time a single engine airplane makes an overwater passage or flys over wild/rough terrain, they are in violation of Part A. In other words, its "Because We Said So".
I don't understand it, because the regulation is not undue hazard to yourself, it's undue hazards to others. If the engine quits you're ditching, but that's the same as if you're flying over a big lake at 500'. No hazard to bystanders.
If you have an engine failure while waterskiing you are in effect already down so you would technically not need to make an emergency landing. You've in theory already landed.......but have simply not come to a stop. ;^)
@@gasdive agreed, no hazard to anyone on the surface here BUT hazard to the passenger if there is one. I realize the regulation talks about "persons or property on the surface" though so in my personal opinion as a non lawyer it seems problematic to say it's relevant to "Trent went waterskiing with a passenger"
Before you started talking, my first thought was wow - that can be used for shorter landing. Water will 'suck' the tires into it because of something called surface tension which will help slow the aircraft and keep the wheels planted for the shorter landing technique. It makes sense that bush pilots use it because it appears to be a legitimate use of physics with surface tension of water. Obviously, this can cause an accident if you're not at the right power level because the craft will continue to slow down and be pulled into the water, or flip forward after sinking a certain amount. But, if the technique is used properly, I can see it being quite beneficial. As for the brakes being wet - you can apply a technique which is learned in other countries during mandatory driver training classes before entering a puddle, or flooding on a road.... If you depress the brake pedal in such a way that the brakes skim the rotors, you can entire the brakes stay dry as water that gets on the disc after will be more easily swept away because of two dry surfaces moving over one another with next to no distance between them vs having 3 layers - 2 dry and 1 wet in the middle.... So you could use that technique and apply the brakes, if you are coming in for a landing, before you skim the surface to help keep the brakes dry. ie, what happens during hydroplaning. Also, if you had a verbal discussion with your passenger and both of you were willing to take the risk, then you would've won in court as it falls under a verbal contract. You warned him of all of the risks, such as death, etc... so legally, by him agreeing, he signed a waiver. Section A, doesn't pertain to you. If you upheld section C by staying away, 500 feet, from all people and structures on the surface, then you couldn't have possibly broken section A by endangering them. If you had an engine failure, you would've sunk, flipped and endangered yourself, and your passenger - both of which had legally 'signed' a waiver allowing that event to take place. You should've stood up for yourself.
correction....only rich trust funder kids with parent purchased airplanes do this shit..the rest of us have to work for our airplanes and WE give a damn about the streamside wildlife habitat, which these little punks, clearly do not.
Sounds like another plea deal was brokered. "You do a PSA on the hazards of water skiing and we will cut you probation." Haaaaaa !! Reminds me of throwing RC planes out of your aircraft and landing on RC runways video. Trent, Trent, Trent. You are an OUTLAW !!!!!
Re: Inspector: "careless and wreckless anywhere other than a paved runway because there is no data in the performance charts". I haven't flown in 10+ years, but I remember performance charts that referenced a grass runway...so off the top of my head, I'm not sure what the inspector meant. Example, 1978 C172: "For operation on a dry, grass runway, increase distances by 15% of the "ground roll" figure."
This is a very good video, and the best part, IMO, is the advice to be proficient in wheel landings. I can speak to this, since I have almost 50 years of tail wheel flying, in my C140 and C120. As an aside, in all of my landings, I am focused on keeping the plane straight down the runway, maximizing rudder control. Remember, Rudder for heading and Aileron for course. I've never ground-looped; I've never even been close to doing so, and don't ever intend on doing so. Be confident in your landings in a tail wheel airplane, whether it be wheel landings or three-pointers, be aggressive, don't be wishy-washy with the rudder.
One little nitpick. You are not skiing on "surface tension". That term refers to the specific way that water molecules attract each other to minimize surface area. It makes a drop of water falling through the air stay "drop" shaped, and placed on a surface bulge up rather than spread out, a stream of water hold together, and some small insects can stand directly on top of the water without penetrating it. You can take the surface tension out of water, such as by adding soap, but it's still water, and you could still ski on top of it as you could any other liquid of similar density. You're skiing on Newton's 3rd law (equal and opposite reaction), and it works because the water is relatively dense and can't get out of the way quickly. Your tires are hitting the surface and it's hitting back. Regarding brakes. Many years ago I was watching one of the pioneering videos of super cubs landing on gravel bars in Alaska with water skiing approach, and that pilot said that he purposely applied brakes and kept the tires locked while skiing. His contention was that the speed differential between the tire's surface and the water is greater when the tire is not turning, and that by allowing it to rotate your'e lowering that speed differential, sort of like your upwind but downriver scenario (water moving with you). I'm also thinking that with a spinning tire you might get some Magnus effect, which pulls the water around the rear of the tire flinging it upward (as you say the struts get wetter). Any water that is thrown upward, is created by an opposing downward force on the tire.
Just remember there are old pilots and bold pilots, but supposedly there are no old bold pilots, from someone who has been flying for 35 years, I love your videos AND your flying and abilities, just make sure you become an OLD pilot. Keep up the good work.
Let the haters, hate. They probably can't fly and are just jealous... and screw the FAA if they can't/won't give you a legal interpretation. I think that inspector was/is full of it! Keep up the good work!
JOe DeLeon indeed, but Trent was aware that as pilot in command he was in violation. He said so in the vid. LSA has enough safety problems without pilots intentionally violating regs. LSA could go away as quickly as it was granted. And since it’s not been the magic bullet to bring costs of flying down & bring in more people, it’s losing support because of it’s safety record.
@@rhkennerly I still think most Administrations (in fact, all of them...) think of "people" as childs to be told what to do (or as cerfs to be commanded and ordered at will...), and I for one don't like it. So I stand by my comment. Feel free to desagree, I have no problem with that. :>)
JOe DeLeon all rights & no responsibilities. Yet, a pilot’s conduct impacts the entire general aviation community. Every LSA or GA accident runs the insurance rates up for the rest of us. We all end up with higher premiums, limited geographic & time & operational restrictions, increased PIC & training requirements in order to maintain our coverage. Aviation jackassery, especially when outside of regulations, impacts the community. Maybe you can afford to run bare while skylarking a $150k+ machine. If your plane trips on a log & flips, just swim away (and if you drown, leave your children as wards of the state). But maybe you have no estate or wealth built up, no family to protect, so you don’t have liability insurance or an umbrella policy to protect your family’s assets, but most of us do. And jackassery on your part hurts us all.
shout out to the float guys in the video, love it. also super informative man, much appreciated. always fun river runnin and water skiing here in southeast ak
What really concerned me was at 17:07 you said that they told you "landing anywhere but a paved surface can be considered careless and reckless." So they can claim a violation on you for landing on a grass runway???
@@DamnTrue by that logic, and probably in actuality, an inspector could decide your choice of underwear was careless and reckless and violate you for it.
I have laid in a hospital bed after doing something dangerous that I said was fun, wile my buddies stood by and said I told you so. Lucky I was on my dirt bike and not in my plane...I hope you consider the risk over the fun factor Trent because I like you and enjoy seeing your life grow in your videos. I evaluated and greatly reduced my risk factor after having 2 boys knowing they depended on me as a father and never wanted their mother explaining why I took risk over being there for them as a dad, if I didn't make it. Now I watch in horror as they Evel Knievel life and I have to watch them do the same things I did. I didn't stop life, I just think about it now before I do it. Have some kids Trent its time lol ! Stay safe please...
Looks like a ton of fun ... but I'd be that guy that was just as lucky as you to have an inspector right there! I've been riding motorcycles just about 30 years now, and I've lost count of the number of times people have told me I was going to die doing this or that. Very true - risk assessment is different for everyone ... even the police. 😂
Yeah' man me too, I like doing wheelie's cos it's cool & I get told I'm gonna get killed or crippled etc Yadda Yadda Yadda! It's always by people that have never ridden & don't understand even basic physics they're just hater's because they're sad😂 I don't fly planes but I understood exactly where Trent was coming from, I follow his Chanel because he post's awesome content accompanied by awesome music & has introduced me to the awesomeness that is DRAGO .... Keep up the great view Trent👍👍👍👍👍👍
I ride too and take my 8yo son away for weekends on it. Boy do I cop it for bad parenting (by the same parents who give their kids unfettered use of devices and are producing overweight, disconnected and bored kids... I could rave for hours on this!). How often do you hear "it's not you - it's the other guy"?? If I had a dollar... :-)
I'm not a pilot, but have loved planes since I was a kid and first saw one. I've flown RC planes for years though, it's the closest I can get. You discussed this in such a way that I completely understood everything you were saying. I hate how regulators won't give you a legal definition so you can do it legally. They would rather just leave it up to a local inspector to define it on a whim, typical worthless government bureaucracy! I love the channel Trent, I love watching you Flying Cowboys go at it. Thanks for the tips and fun. Be safe, Best Wishes & Blessings. Keith Noneya
I love this type of vid because you are sharing your experience that others can benefit from. I believe it to be untenable for FAA to claim that landing off airport is careless and reckless because there is no POH performance information for doing so. I'm an aviation attorney and would be ecstatic to fight them on that one!
Stan Barankiewicz Contact him and get it done. Their laws are inconsistent and contradict themselves. Their rules require the shutting down of all rescue flights and all bush flying. They need o be prosecuted until Trump fires some trash.
Kind of a “Come full circle” day for me today. First, I got to meet your brother Kevin today (super great guy, BTW!) and we got to fly together on a short hop from Truckee to Oakland. And then I get home, and there’s a new video from the guy that got me into KitFoxes in the first place! Now that’s my kinda day! Oh, and I think I fall into the category of “Undecided” for the time being 😎
The way most laws are written now (in my opinion) are unconstitutional because they're vague and open to interpretation and subjectivity, which leaves people unsure if their actions will violate the law. And so many laws are what I call "add on" laws where they'll never be enforced unless you do other things wrong. I'm an attorney and have been practicing 12 years in Oklahoma City and have dealt with the FAA on a few issues but it's not my practice focus.
Great comment. Probably 90% of our federal government is unconstitutional. Just compare the enumerated powers against the myriad government agencies and all the regulations created by bureaucrats (as opposed to laws enacted by congress, many of which are still unconstitutional--i.e., illegal).
This is sooooo, true. I filed for an annulment from a wife who married me for the money and when I paid her debts off, she jumped on a plane back to Taiwan never to return. Fraud all the way. Well In Nevada Civil Rules of Procedure are written so poorly I cannot even serve her legally and binding as per treaties and the Hague Convention. So I have had to write motion after motion to correct their poor legislative fopaux. 3 years and I am still not done because Judges don't want to make the tough decisions.
Enjoyed the vid. Call me a Vulcan but surfing a plane has to an ego thing. That aside, your video explained the pros and cons clearly and precisely. Keep up the good work!!
Flying in general "can be considered careless and reckless". Life, in general, can be considered careless and reckless. Those FAA inspectors are probably nose wheel drivers that always use flight following for their $100 hamburger flights....
I like what you said, and agree 100%. I wouldn't be a 'hater' of waterskiing with an aircraft, but I will say that one is putting oneself at greater risk by doing it. And I think you're saying the same. At the beginning of the clip when you introduced the topic, I thought, 'Never with a passenger.' Then thought of a friend begging me to waterski with him or her in the aircraft. And that's what happened to you. I've never flown a tailwheel aircraft (which, according to another friend, means I've never flown!) and wouldn't do it with a tricycle geared aircraft--but the fact is that I don't think I'd be comfortable enough with my experience to do it. I fully understand the thrill of doing it--most of us at some stage have flown low enough to get that same thrill. But, hopefully, those that have done that, have done that alone. Reckless? Yes. Dangerous? Yes. I say reckless because I have a family to support. And if it wasn't dangerous there would be no thrill. I don't fly anymore because I have PD, but this is the way I see it: comparing me flying low, to my dad flying low is just incomparable. Me with less than 200 hours versus him with close to 10,000 hours, some of which were WW2 flying low enough so that the cruisers were unable to bring their guns to bear on him...there's just no comparison. I wouldn't consider Dad (yes, with a family to support) to be reckless. But I would be.
Words of wisdom Trent... the more I watch your videos, the less you and the flying cowboys look like the flying circus I imagined in the beginning ( yes, that’s a compliment 😂) . The way you fly is awesome but inexperienced pilot should take example of your analysis and risk mitigation instead of thinking that what you’re doing is just fun and easy to shoot at home with their GoPro. Keep the blue side up and long live your amazing channel ! Alex (France)
I keep watching this video please don't give up on the adventure of what you do if I can find the money to learn to fly I am going to to in some small part because of you
Absolutely right about Probably Shouldn't. That being said, LIVE FREE OR DIE Nobody should be able to tell you how to live your life. Liberty means having freedoms, but not infringing on other's freedom. As long as you're not stopping someone else from enjoying their freedom, the FAA should not tell anyone what to do.
FPVREVIEWS and personal responsibility means following the rules you agreed to follow. Personal responsibility is what Trent is doing now: accepting responsibility for his actions. We have a long history in the aviation community of publically discussing our errors, lack of judgment, & questionable calls openly & without rancor in hopes that others will learn from them. The earliest flying magazines I remember had columns titled, “I learned about flying from that.” They also featured NTSB & FAA reports on accidents, where every aspect of an incident is evaluated by the magazine staff writers.
@@rhkennerly Very true. A well informed decision is essential to making the right one for you. The issue here is someone else saying they know better than you do what is right for you, regardless. How would you like it if someone decreed that aviation was dangerous, and we should all take buses? I think we can all agree that water-skiing is the wrong decision for 99 percent (or more) of pilots, and it's a great thing that we have lots of reports to read about it, to remind us of just why it's not a good idea for us. But if we learn gradually, analyze all of the risks, and decide to give it a try, who are we hurting? That being said, It's the wrong decision for me, and i have no desire to see most pilots try it, but I will stand up for anyone's right to do it if they decide to. If everyone never did anything with an element of risk, our species would not exist. It will require an insane amount of risk by at least a small number of individuals in the future if we are to survive as a species as well. Think of the risk of flying the shuttle/orbiter for all those years.. lives lost, but we learned form it, accepted the remaining risk, and forged ahead. Today we have ISS because of it. Being too risk adverse leads to stagnation.
Hi Trent! When you were wrapping things up & said; " If you're going to do it, be safe & use a..." I thought you were going to say condom! Lol, but it was ".... couple of techniques I mentioned" or something along those lines. On the subject of aquaplaning, speed is definitely your friend. I haven't done it in a plane, just on a dirt bike, but it doesn't work unless you're going fast enough, in my case, flat out in 6th! Anyway love your vids & the opening music/footage gives me goosebumps. Please, don't ever change the music!
Oh boy, where to begin. First, before I tell the story, I’m an old dog -CFI, instrument instructor, and multi-I. I had no idea you young guys were doing this. In 1978 when I got out of the army, I went to work as ground crewman for a crop duster. His personal plane was a PA-16 Piper Clipper, a sweet little airplane. Before the season started we flew down to Florida and he demonstrated this technique. Somewhere I have pix buried in my junk. He used it as practice for spraying crops. He was also an insane drunk as was the business owner. We all survived the season and I learned to fly tail wheel with him. I got my private ticket in Athens, GA at Clark’s Flying Service. Mr. Clark drilled into my skull: “There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old-bold pilots.” Guys, unless you have a real operational need to do this, don’t do it. Then only learn it from some graybeard. Keep the greasy side down.
MyTech Yeah, had me wincing too, but used as a colloquialism it got the point across-albeit at the expense of propagating a common misconception about surface tension. To be fair though, I didn't know what the correct term was (aside from planing) even though I've taught intro physics for years. I knew it had something to do with impulse/momentum but don't have enough experience with fluid dynamics to get further (without hitting up wikipedia).
I know several people that confuse dynamic pressure with surface tension. Dynamic pressure increases with increasing velocities and is affected by way too many variables to list. Surface tension doesn’t. Their respective properties are close but totally different.
I personally don't see any practical application for water skiing. But then there isn't much practical application to flying around in a kitfox either. You do it because it's a blast. I would try waterskiing if I had the right airplane. And landing on a grass strip is wreckless flying? That's hilarious. I guess that FAA guy has never seen any back country flying where you guys land up hills, on top of hills etc etc. He probably flew cessnas out of a big airport and anything else frightens him. Total disconnect from reality. So are all these alaskan dudes with videos of them landing on the water next to sand bars going to get letters from the FAA? Even the Anchorage FSDO would probably piss themselves laughing at that!
I was cringing as well. Surface tension? Lol. Especially after the preamble about how he was going to discuss the "physics" of how the stunt works. Someone didn't pay attention in an actual physics class. Good video though. I would never jump a motorcycle over 25 buses, but I certainly will watch someone else do it on my computer screen. It's fun to watch other people to crazy shit.
Yo Trent,, Very well thought out and the way you came across was very good!! You covered it all basically, and were good at portraying your thoughts!! What more needs to be said!! Don’t do it!! But if you are?? Be careful!! I love you like a brother!! Fly Low,,, Fly Safe,,, G-Man
LoL, 200# at 40mph? Ok, not really wrong, at 175 my preferred speed is 39mph. But I grew up waterskiing, moved into wakeboarding and waterskiing. On a front deep water start, longline, I can plant my feet and stand as slow as 22mph. Drowned in spray until the boat gets up to speed. Really like this video though. Water is harder than most people think. And glass smooth water? Never good! On the bare feet, it is a knife edge digging into one point on your foot. A one inch ripple makes for a nice foot massage. Love it bro, keep the good stuff coming. Be putting maiden flight on my Flight Test Freedom Fox this week.
Whether you self-evaluate an operation being safe or not, keep in mind that everyone has a camera these days and the FAA is the sole judge of the catch-all regulation of careless and reckless operation.
Hey Trent, great video on the topic! I never thought about how you would actually want faster groundspeed over the water in this scenario. As pilots, it's second nature for us to always pick the slowest groundspeed (into the wind) when close to the surface or landing. Btw, check out the story of N3829D. It was a Beech 77 that crashed in Lake Meredith Texas in 1984. The pilot and passenger both died likely due to water skiing the airplane. According to the FAA report "the pilot had been known to skip wheels on the lake".
It sucks that they are unable to give you a definite answer on water skiing in open water but I can kinda understand. But I can see the reason for the sanction on open water. When you are coming in to land if you do mess up and the wheels sink under water you are so close to shore that even if you do flip you will likely not sink completely. On a lake that could be a couple hundred feet the same can not be said. If you are by yourself and not risking another person you are only taking your life and your property into your own hands. That comes around to if you own it you can do pretty much anything you want with it as long as you do not attempt to make money off of destruction. For instance near where I live a woman killed her children in a house and wounded another. She is in jail and the house was owned by her brother. Her brother burned the house down, it was perfectly legal to do as he owned the house and didn't try to claim insurance on it's destruction. If you are water skiing and wreck the plane I would absolutely NOT try and file an insurance claim on it as you made a decision to do something that was hazardous because it will almost be guaranteed to be reported to the FAA for an investigation and end up with violations as well as possible fraud charges. It's kinda like driving a vehicle when committing a crime, if you look in your insurance policy there is a section that will state that the insurance is invalid during the commission of a crime. So if you are blatantly speeding and hit another car and it is your fault the insurance company can actually deny the claim and leave you on the hook for it. The same goes for your health insurance. To add to that on health insurance they can also deny claims when you are performing reckless acts. Makes you think twice about stepping out your door in the morning. Sorry for the long post btw and thanks for the video's Trent, my wife and I really enjoyed watching a lot of them before she passed away. www.hayesfh.com/obituary/shauna-marie-gill
I don't own a tail dragger, nor do I fly a tail dragger, but if I did, when I was ready I would damned sure water ski the thing! Would I do it in public? Bush things should happen in the bush as I see it. Great video Trent! Thanks for your honesty and for sharing !
If landing 'anywhere but a paved runway' is 'careless and reckless', has the FAA ever heard of a seaplane? No less, have they heard of any grass strip ever? How about most of Alaska? And of course they get you for going fast over water after briefing the risks and what to do in an emergency with your passenger, as opposed to slowing to land.
I don't think they have issue with landing on grass. They're not saying it's reckless in and of itself. They're just saying his Kitfox doesn't have the performance numbers for anything other than asphalt in the POH, which if true is a major oversight for a company that sells bush planes.
n122vu just an FYI, the builder of the kit is the “manufacturer” of the aircraft, not the kit provider. The builder is the one that gets the airworthiness certificate from the FAA after completion of the build. He/she is also responsible for writing the Pilot’s Operating Handbook for that particular aircraft after completing the mandatory test flight phase of usually 40 hours. No two completed experimental aircraft are exactly alike due to engine choices, propellor choices and installed equipment , even if both are from the same kit supplier. All weigh and perform slightly different from each other hence aircraft specific P.O.H.s must be forever attached to the aircraft they were written for. Hope this very brief explanation helps folks understand the origination of P.O.H.s for an experimental built aircraft. Thanks n122vu. I hope Trent inspires you and many more of his wingmen and women to join us in the skies.
Always love your videos, Trent. Fascinating topic. And one I greatly appreciate you talking about. Looking at *just* the videos, to my (totally) ignorant eye it did seem like water-skiing an airplane was an excessively risky manoeuvre. Taken in light as a technique to safely reduce airspeed when landing on a river sandbar? A legitimate and potentially useful skill. Big picture: I think we can all be appreciative of the FAA and the manner in which they work with the general aviation community in a reasonable and safety-focused manner. To keep our flying friends safe, as well as those of us still on the ground (or water.) Kudos to Trent for having the courage to share his experience, and to own up to his mistake.
"So no waterskiing for me." ... Yeah, right. ... Now I want to see a video of you actually waterskiing, like behind a boat in a swimsuit, just to stick it to the FAA.
I learned to fly in a Piper Cub in the Panhandle of Texas where there are lots of what we called Playa Lakes in the rainy season. These ponds are up to half a mile across and a foot deep. They made great places to go sliding across the surface of the water on those fat balloon tires. Well, what else do you expect an invincible 16 year old kid with a student certificate in his pocket to do when out from under the watchful eye of his instructor. (I'm sure she (yes, a woman taught me to fly) knew what was going on.
Trent, love all your videos, and I appreciate that you are passionate about flying enough to be honest and let us know about things that FAA shakes their finger at and scolds you for. We all can learn from other people’s mistakes and become more knowledgeable pilots. Keep up the great videos!!!
It sounds like you got screwed by the FAA. I agree with what you said about water skiing with passengers being an unnecessary risk, but like in your case where your passenger was the one that requested it, and they were ok with the risks involved, I don't see the issue. Sounds like a victimless crime, if a crime was even committed at all. I'm not a pilot (though hopefully that will change soon) but say someone wanted to take up water skiing, wouldn't it be beneficial to first experience it with another pilot in command? How would someone be able to do that unless the CFI had the new pilot as a passenger?
I know how u feel about giving tips, but I think you have done the right thing by giving tips. Ultimately we as pilots are the decision makers, it’s no different to making the choice to do aerobatics, we can try it because it looks fun on TH-cam, or we can decide not to, I would hope all pilots are responsible enough to know and stick to their limits. This water skipping is out of the question for me, I don’t feel right to risk it, but that’s just me.
"My buddy" flew for 24yrs without a license. Bermuda, Bahamas, lunch 200m away. FAA took his dad's license away bc of a 3rd party video on Facebook. He was pissed
This was awesome. Seems like a tough one to go out and publish but comes across as a really well considered and all encompassing discussion on the topic.
Guys up in my neck of the woods do the same with snowmobiles. I remember one spot where there was (as I remember) a 15-20 ft patch of clear water and a huge number of tacks on either side because the locals would use it as a shortcut.
Trent, you are amazing on several levels. You have a huge "bully pulpit" that you can use very effectively to promote reason and safety. Younger, newer (and less intelligent!) pilots need to hear your voice. I suspect that this little video has saved more than several lives and dozens of airframes to boot. You are that important now. PLEASE continue as a role model with a voice of reason and wise restraint. Your next video on the subject of safety should be on the use of helmets. Get Gentex to give you a pair of aviation helmets and shamelessly plug them from now on!
Honest assessment of one's choices... Here is a reality... Its not "IF" something happens, it is just a matter of "When" something happens. I used to ride street bikes when I was younger, and did lots of crazy stuff. One day I was out pushing the limits, and something told me to stop doing it, so I did. About 60 minutes later I had a freak accident and got a free ride to Balboa Hospital via helicopter... Life can be fun, and pushing the limit at times is necessary to build confidence in one's skills. But don't continue to push it... Mr. Murphy will show up and will let you know why you shouldn't push your luck. BE SAFE FOLKS!!!
You should have let the inspector know that you WERE coming in for a landing, a touch-and-go! As some have said, I would hate for the first time needing to use this 'landing' technique to be coming in slow for a full stop on a sandbar. It makes far more sense to be proficient in landing techniques and options that can be practiced before having to execute them, the very reason we touch-and-go on pavement.
Just an A&P mechanic wandering through. Would like to point out the potential for water to get into your wheel bearings with water skimming. Could cause them to rust. Rust and pitting is usually immediate rejection so that could set you back a couple $100 for new wheel bearings. Also the possibility of over-speed for the wheel bearing. Basically spinning it so fast that the friction of the bearing produces enough heat to thin out the grease. The grease gets thin enough to a point where it doesn't lubricate. Worst possible case the bearing blows apart completely or it seizes in place. All that said you could have to skim for quite some time above the aircraft's landing speed to cause this to happen. Just wanted to throw that out there.
Interesting to see this covered with such detail, and a good disclaimer up front.
About the only thing I didn't like was the "FAA says that any off pavement landing can be considered careless and reckless".
This entire channel is doing stuff like that but they don't seem to mind.
We've got seperate issues in canada too - I am studying for the PSTAR and it says that any recording of in flight radio communications is illegal, yet many channels (yours included) this is done all the time.
Maybe we need some clearer, up to date rules so we can all be sure that we are staying legal.
@@islandfd3s The key in that legal speak is 'can be', they arent against off pavement landings when properly judged and fit for purpose but they need that legal interpretation area for the odd and unusual cases that are unduly reckless. Unfortunately that line will be constantly redrawn as more and more landings are made
@@Kevy_G - and I hate the "can be" because it means that someone not in your cockpit with you is going to judge whether your actions violated the law.
@@islandfd3s At least this person TRIED to assist in understanding the sense behind the rules. I'd say "big up" to that FAA official. I just can't understand why you'd get slapped with a book if you take a calculated risk anyhow. I know, highly debatable, but its about flying, not talking.
Anyhoooo
stupid, i hope they cancel your insurance.
If you remove the context of this video (water skiing) this is a great conversation starter about personal minimums and comfort vs. experience in the airplane. I think that leads to a much bigger conversation about safety in the airplane. I like that you were willing to share this and actually discuss the topic. Even if it is a heated debate I think the overriding theme of this video is extremely valuable. Good video Trent!
Captain Sully has joined the chat
Lol
Nice One!
hahahahahahahaaahahaha
✈🌊 😁
Not quite. Still, kinda clever.
Trent, as an active CFI, I can say you covered the bases very well. The subject of backcountry flying has seen a lot of focus in the last 10 years and the FAA is ill prepared to deal with the adventurists of aviation. When aviation was new it was common place for a pilot to assess a LANDING AREA and make their own judgments, but the technics for this are no longer taught in FAA curriculums as part of the pilots knowledge. That being said, you have to search hard to find instructors willing to teach the technics long used by barnstormers to criss cross our great nation. I applaud your vision to venture out and bring the camera as witness to the beauty beyond the pavement and hope you will continue to urge your followers to assess everything they choose to do with the FAA in mind. They are trying to catch up. The best way to do anything well is PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE. Be careful out there and let me know when the 1200 hour BOGEYMAN spanks you. LOL It will happen.
"LIMITS" = that's it. Walk, drive, fly, ride "WITHIN YOUR LIMITS" VERY WELL SAID Trent! !! !!!
I usually ride above my limits so i can get better
@@syitiger9072 BUT, that's also a risk that you're willing to take. You've done the risk assessment, and decided that it's okay. Now, I'm going to assume you're talking about a motorcycle, and maybe you're doing something like The Snake for your first time. Would you do it with a passenger, or would you ride solo? All part of the risk assessment. So, yeah, you can ride above your limits, but hopefully you've looked at all the possible outcomes.
Id do it solo and with good tires
Your style is so transcendental ...proximity flying eats up the buffer for the anomaly., but your speeds make it survivable...no riskier than motocross. This is the most intriguing flying I have ever seen as I am considering to awaken my dormant license and pursuing this skill set. Thanks.
Great video Trent, one of the scariest things about flying in 2019 is knowing that nearly every single person you see has a high definition camera in their pocket and any mistake or use of grey area in the FARs can cost your ticket. Glad that you didn't lose your license over that deal. I think off-airport operations appear to be dangerous not only to the non-pilot but also to the pilot who's never even landed on a well maintained grass strip. You do a great job on your channel showing how safe and enjoyable it really is. Thanks to you and the flying cowboys for promoting GA in a recreational way.
How is this kid promoting GA? By ravaging the environment in his wannabe cub? By terrorizing the geese and duck and wildlife streamside? You have no clue, If I was the FAA ( I'm just a 30 year commercial pilot with 11,000 hours
and much of tha in the bush ) I'd would have grounded his ass for 5 years.
@@thegentlecraftsman4764 Thanks for the respectful comment from a real pilot.
There is an old saying....."Don't be THAT guy" Gentle is "THAT guy". Good grief.......ravaging the environment??????? by skimming the surface of the water........Really???? I feel bad for the young people of today because of people like this.
Trent, I don't think I've told you how awesome your intro is. The cinematography, the editing and especially the music. And it's the perfect length too. Not too long and not too short.
Hi Trent, I can't imagine anyone being a hater of your channel, it is alwas professional, amazing footage, and most times pilots can glean a little more knowledge by watching you videos. Two thumbs up buddy, don't listen to the haters none of the rest of us do..
I don't think I've ever seen you two so happy when sailing.... It's obvious that this catamaran is just perfect for the two of you.... Love the video, the love between you two and of course the sailing....God Bless!!!
Your operating handbook doesn’t say anything about landing anywhere because you fly an experimental. So according to that inspector, you would be careless and reckless for getting in an experimental which is clearly incorrect.
my experimental home built plane;) handbook did say about where you should and shouldn't land it, it also states how fast you should be going when approaching the runway from above glide path for gentle landing and the top speed for landing flying cruising the stall speed heck it even tells you how long you can fly based on if you are flying tailwind or head wind and characteristics and specifics of the operation plane, I registered . I know because observation, my mechanic, and diagnostic equipment told me the details and I typed them into the handbook for my experimental aircraft.
@@ericwilde3837 Yes exactly "I know because observation, my mechanic, and diagnostic equipment told me the details and I typed them into the handbook for my experimental aircraft". That's a far cry from what a certified aircraft would need to go through to have the same content added to its handbook. I recommend Trent just write in his handbook that his aircraft is designed for water skiing and call it a day.
Hi Trent, I liked your video on water skiing. I was taught by my instructor in a P.A. 18, he was acting as my instructor teaching off airport landings. We contacted the fisdo back when we had one, and they gave their blessing. He was also an air show pilot and he did a comedy routine. I was a commercial pilot with aerobatic experience. As an air show performer with a low altitude waiver you can practice, and or teach your act. When he did shows on the beach he included water skiing. Two things. We never did it during teaching in a place that a person would be close enough to film. Of course during the air show, his low altitude waiver, and the fact that the air show people were keeping the water around the air show free from boats and people, made it ok.
When we practiced it, and when I now do it on my own, I am always aiming towards a landing spot that is legal to land on. We never had any problems with the FAA. Maybe their is a fine line between practicing to increase your skills and showing off. That is a concern of mine with your videos. As pilots we have trained and we know the risk. I hope someone doesn’t get hurt trying some of those things. You might want to include more cautious education in your videos as a whole, on the other hand will your explanation by way of education make you more liable if a newly minted Tailwheel pilot has an accident skiing using the information you provided?? I love your videos, I’m just looking out for you and the rest of the cowboys.
12:20 he finally starts talking about the FAA
The golden rule regarding the FAA is this:
They're not happy until YOU'RE not happy.
Same with any Government Entity. They won't be happy until everyone is limited to sitting in their easy chair just watching their T.V. or Computer all day long.
Pretty much haven't gotten anything done this week because I've been binge watching Flying Cowboy Videos and looking up kit airplane dealers and prices.
@@jeffreydancinger2875 Get a life Jeff
😂😂😂
And there's FAA Motto:
We've upped our standards . . . now up yours!
Correct if your not doing anything just sitting at home your safe
FLY8MA did a video on this a while ago (since removed). I felt the risk discussion on that video was pretty unsatisfying, as he basically hand-waived any risk and even mocked future commenters about it. I really enjoyed this video, and your discussion of the risks of this was honest and balanced and good.
I thought I had seen that, But could not find it (obviously as it is now removed)
I'm a Heli pilot but, the discussion that Jon had brought up and how he went about it was great. I went to show it to some fix wing pilots but alas the video is removed.
Im not so sure about that guy.....
Always a good day when Trent posts a video 👌
As an electrician this all sounds much like what I have dealt with before in that it’s all up to the interpretation taken by the inspector. Glad you didn’t get in more trouble and continue to rock on. Love your videos.
always carry a Code Book and know how to find sh..tuff in it : ) and never take short cuts...
Hey Trent, did they provide copies of the "pictorial evidence?" I'm sure a shot of the # freedom fox waterskiing across Tahoe would look nice on the wall.
I don't know why Trevor Jacobs The Airplane-Crashing Asshole didn't think of trying to waterski an airplane --- or did he and I just don't know it yet?
How is this channel not huge? It should have at least 2 million. Maybe not a super popular subject, but not rare and definitely interesting. The videos are so well edited and he says everything so well while being humble about it.
Trent, I rarely comment on other people's videos, but I suspect that I'm a bit of a cowboy like you, and I do a lot of things you "probably shouldn't do". I think you handled this subject very admirably. There's GOING to be some Bozo who's going to try it, and because everyone is afraid to talk about it, Bozo will run the risk of serious injury or death because they are ignorant about the theory, and method of doing it. You did a great job of discussing the topic from an honest point of view. Our community is surprisingly small, and exceptionally gracious. I'm a low hours student who had the honor of flying from Portland to Palmer Alaska over a weeks time, (and documented it on TH-cam, shameless plug) and I'm a big fan of your work. Having done it myself, I respect the amount of work it takes to film edit and produce the videos you do. KEEP UP TGE GOOD WORK!!!
I think it's just because he had a passenger? If its fun it's probably illegal like everything in life😥
"THE" good work. 😳
Trent, about 10 years ago I was in flight school at KLGU. Since I was a kid I had a dream of being a pilot and I was going to see it though and make a career of it. Part of the way though flight school I was diagnosed with Type One Diabetes. This really put me into a negative headspace for a long time as I felt like the only thing I really wanted to do was out of my reach. Fast forward to a couple months ago and I find these great videos of a dude named Trent Palmer and his friends flying bush planes. I love watching them but it gave me a sad pang every time too. Then today I had a realization, and sure enough a kit fox is a light sport aircraft. Holy cow I could actually do this! The world changed for me TODAY. Thank you Trent.
Yes! Get out and get your sport pilot license!!!
I honestly don’t think I ever clicked on a video so fast...
right? haha
I've never clicked on a video because of a notification until now lol
The haters are boaters who can't fly their catamaran
100%
Maybe you should look at those racing cat's that Fly above the water on an air foil there faster than SHIT and flying. Hmm boaters do Fly 🤔
Cats can sure jump, but I’m not sure about fly. Kinda ironic because my name is Hobie.
@@hobie1613 look up team Oracle and tell me that's not flying a cat. 😎
@@hobie1613 well do you have a different opinion now hobbie
I used to barefoot water ski at 38mph on 2 feet, 40mph on one foot. Good example. Great video
no not a good example...you're not going to kill ducks, geese, songbirds and fish with your barefoot water skiing.
BIG DIFF>
@@thegentlecraftsman4764 the video is not about killing anything, it's about the surface tension. WTH.... But, please do provide the example of birds, fish, ducks, ect being killed by airplanes watersking Lol.....
@@ronbo747 never mind him he's a land lubber and a troll, maybe even has a Bernie fixation.
Excellent learning experience. Going to share with another TH-camr who is a low time pilot in the bush of Idaho - C-182 airplane which might benefit from large tires. Thanks from a pilot who lost a medical in 2010 with over 800 hours and many memories.
Thank you for the explanation. I have less than zero desire to do this myself, but I have always wondered about the actual mechanics behind doing it.
This is an interesting topic. I’ve always been curious about it. On the topic of 91.119a, even though your aircraft is near the surface, as long as you have plenty of airspeed, a zoom climb is always an option. I think that could have been a very viable argument.
You can skip the zoom climb, water is an acceptable emergency landing spot. Example Flight 1549, it was the prefered by the pilot over attempting a return to the airport. Like Trevor Jacob.
Great video, its a hard lesson to learn, and the FAA new policy on compliance is good change for all or us. Having spent 30 years in aviation as a career and dealt a lot with the FAA I understand where they come from. First remember the FARs "define the minimum acceptable standard for the safe operation of aircraft and the protection of persons and property".
Like most things every one of those rules came about because someone screwed up. You knew water skiing down the middle of an open lake with a passenger on board was not a good idea, but got talked into it. I have been there myself (well not water skiing) only to look back and go what was i thinking.
Oh and that thing about landing anywhere but a paved runway is reckless (I have seen a lot of comments below on that) because its not in the manual. With out knowing the full story, I'll take a guess at the hint he was trying to give you. 91.9 requires you to have a flight manual, which includes performance data. 91.103(b) requires you to make use of this data on preflight. So look at your manual, you have new wings, and a new engine. Have you revised the manual performance data, and does it included data for turf runway (both short, long and wet grass) in there. You are a talented stick and rudder pilot, you know what the aircraft can do, don't give it up. But after the accident, it only matters what you can prove, if you have no data, its reckless.
And add water skiing data while you're at it! I hate having to play legal games..
@@guylandia2150 Yes it is a legal game, but you missed the point, there's more to it. If you flip the aircraft over in the long wet grass (or the lake) and injure (or worse) your self and your passenger. Its not the FAA you need to worry about, just tell them I've done it before, its fine.
Its Morgan and Morgan, for the people!
The FAA may take your license for being reckless, but Morgan and Morgan will take everything else. Sure, you have insurance, but that's not going to pay all your legal fees, and having to live with those choices.
The rules are there to make you stop and think, remember someone already screwed up, which is why there is a rule. Don't be afraid, live your life to the fullest, just stop and think, what if.
How can anyone hate your video’s?!! I’m always jealous but never hate the awesome fun you have! Keep them coming Trent. And thanks for taking the time to share.🍻
Wow, people got bent out of shape about this? Youre an experienced pilot, you know the dangers.
Keep up the good vids, looking forward to the house and runway updates. All good stuff. Gave the vid a like
@Airstrip Kid the problem with that argument is the regulations apply to everyone.
you can't make regulations for 1 type of person, but another set for a different type of person, that would be discrimination.
and because of that, the regulations can't make exceptions between pilots who know their stuff, and those who don't
drifting on an open road will get you fined, wether or not you are an experienced rally driver.
same thing here
i personally have no problem with it, if you know what you are doing. and trent does. the cowboy's all do i think.
Look, if they don't go hard after people at the start, when the experienced pilots are the ones experimenting, and make an example out of their cases, then when the noobs and idiots start killing themselves and eventually causing real accidents, the FAA will get blamed. You know some moron will push it for views and thrills, and they'll plow into a boat or kayak or something, or they'll kill someone on shore, or any number of other things could happen. The FAA need to cover their bases. Unless there is a threat of action, no one will stop or listen to mere requests. The idiots who don't know their limits (unlike the guy who made the video) and don't understand physics, are the ones who ruin everything for everyone.
@Airstrip Kid I'll agree with you, except on one point, and that's carrying passengers. You said, "if you know what your [sic] doing." The pilot may know what he's doing, but the passenger may not, and the passenger may not fully understand and recognize the inherent risks taken. Even if that passenger is another pilot, but who has never done waterskiing before.
My friend, CW, was killed strafing Lake Pleasant in Arizona and took out his passenger as well..they never skied but were batting the wings so his friend could see him on approach from the east toward the west...an inflection in the air currents caused the plane to dip on a bat and the plane cart wheeled in and sunk to 170 feet and not recovered for about 8 months later. I like your style as the aircraft you are using has much greater maneuverability, like a bi wing. and your relative speeds are amazingly low...being able to land and take off in 200' is amazing.
Good tips and insight, Trent! I always wondered how it's not against the min AGL FAR to fly as low as depicted in many online videos, although as youngsters we did it all the time over the prairie and hills of western Nebraska, almost always with passengers, but in certified aircraft. As far as I know, there was only 1 report of a low flying aircraft turned in to the FAA at BFF in the early 1970's, which was probably a friend and I. It's a rural area with cropdusters flying around all summer long surrounded by endless prairie with homes and outbuildings miles apart. I guess people back then weren't so quick to report something that had nothing to do with them, unlike the present mindset.
Keep sharing as you can; always interesting!
Flight below 500ft is specifically allowed in sparsely populated areas, as long as the plane gets no closer than 500ft horizontally to any buildings, people or boats. however like so many things bureaucratic they fail to define the terms they use like "sparsely populated". The simple interpretation is that sparse is implied by the ability to be clear 500 feet horizontal on all sides, but this is up to individual interpretation.
@@mytech6779, thanks for the recap. It's been so long since I've flown I've probably forgotten most of what I learned about regs and such thru lack of use! It probably helped that we knew all the local FAA employees personally. I even worked with one of their wives while in college.
Great video! I'm not a back-country pilot, nor a tailwheel pilot (yet) but the enforcement action discussion reminded me of some advice I got from an old crusty Air Force Pilot. He told me when I think I'm doing something dumb, write the first line of the incident report in my head. Usually we read, "the non instrument rate pilot continued visual flight into instrument meteorological conditions...." Something like that. In 18 years of civil and military aviation, that thought has kept me safe. I've taken some risks, especially in my military career, but they were always thought out, calculated, and done with a plan. The worst I can say I've done as PIC is returning from my PPL Checkride in 2003, I requested a circle over my parents' house. I was with tower, at least 1500agl; not "buzzing," but low enough that they heard me and came out on the deck to see me. I'd do that again, but I'm overall pretty risk-averse.
No one expects 91.119(a), or the spanish inquisition.
"I'm not wet yet!"
OMG, lol
Couldn't have summed it up better... Even if I had half a brain... lol pilot =Poor Intelligence Lots Of Training
Lol
@@michaelrice500 ha
Good job Trent. Don't the haters bother you. I have been a pilot for years, and this is something that could help you in a pinch type situation. It never hurts to know this stuff. Thanks for the video! Keep up the good work!!!
You paid for it, you fly it, you be responsible, you have fun, you forget about those who are jealous of you. Keep them coming buddy. Say hi to Nick for me and we're looking forward in seeing him again.
Ben A1 he paid for it, he flies it, but if Trent is insured, his mistake runs up the insurance premium for the rest of us.
I got a lesson on 119 a from my FAA examiner during a check ride, he explained that when flying over water you must be able “glide” to land in the event of a power unit failure unless you have floats. Different aircraft glide ratios = different safe altitudes. This conversation took place over the Great salt lake, in a Schweitzer 300c. They drop like a rock so it was pertinent information lol.
Interesting and informative. I've always thought waterskiing is foolish and wouldn't do it myself, but I respect the rights of others who want to take the risk. But I admit if I were FAA, I probably wouldn't be very accommodating either. As I said, I've always thought it was a foolish thing to do. Although, to be fair, I don't fly risky but I do play pretty hard with my ATV's and such. So I guess we all choose where and with what we're willing to push our luck. I thought your points were well thought out and presented, and reasonable. Thanks for sharing!
You're doing the right thing with your flying Trent . Disregard haters and informers. If not for people like yourself, there would nothing called aviation in the first place.
The good side of it is that someday, when you have an aircraft full of passengers, and the engine starts to die, and you are looking for a place to land in the northern bush of Canada, and spot a small area to land but too short before you hit the bush, you will be able to use a little of the water as your runway, get down safely and save the lives of all your passengers. There is a good side to every bad thing that happens in life. Happy Flying
SO! Well don't what to say! But you are the best and you enjoy life! Keep doing what you like to do and don't let the haters ever get you down....and you don't have anything to be ashamed of.
Thanks for your time to allow me to fly with you in your videos.
Your story of being violated and my experiences with the FAA really just pisses me off.....
Edit: I had to wait a year to renew my medical certificate (no flying for A YEAR) because of a medical condition that I DON’T HAVE. The FAA decided to interpret the doctor’s evaluation that said there was nothing out of the ordinary (they always read it back to me) in their own way and then ignore two follow up letters that my doctor and I wrote. You just kind of have to go with their narrative, but damn I’m still a little annoyed by the fact it happened.
Been there done that, I was grounded in Australia by CASA for 1year due to being put on a medication for a medical condition. The amount of reports and BS i had to go through to get my medical sorted was a joke.
Even though the condition had no effects on my flying, and neither did the medication.
Todd m You could take ibuprofen for a headache and the FAA would beat you over the head with a stick.
@@pvtdipwad2944 is it the ibuprofen or the headache that they consider the problem? New to aviation, just curious.
Ozzy Chappell The ibuprofen. Obviously just joking, but they seriously regulate any type of meds due to the IMSAFE acronym. Illness, Medication, Stress, Alcohol, Fatigue, Emotion/Eating. You want to make sure all of that is in the green before you go fly. In terms of a headache, it could be a variety of things, but if you're new to flying, a headache can distract you from what's important in the cockpit. Basically if you're safe, you shouldn't need meds. That's my take from it anyways.
Been there still there lol my medical was revoked with a month of getting my PPL due to meds..haven’t been able to get it back in 8 years because of SSRI’s.
Trent Palmer Thanks for great Meat and Potatoes content and explaining your personal experience.
Inspectors are completely free to interpret the rules and regs however they want within reason, and there is very little recourse options an operator has to fight back, besides throwing many thousands of hard earned dollars at a possibly never ending Cort battle against the faa with unlimited resources. Hold fast trent! Don't let the paper pushers keep you down.
Doing what you do at the risk of no one but you and you are learning hot to be a really good pilot. Look what Sully learned in a glider I’m sure he pushed the limits at times. But his real world learning saved a lot of lives
My interpretation would be if you had an engine failure while waterskiing, you would be unable to make an emergency landing.
But then again, you could apply this to flying over any sort of unforgiving terrain. If you had an engine failure over dense forest or rugged terrain, you would not be able to make an emergency landing without undue hazard either. So, I guess any time a single engine airplane makes an overwater passage or flys over wild/rough terrain, they are in violation of Part A.
In other words, its "Because We Said So".
I don't understand it, because the regulation is not undue hazard to yourself, it's undue hazards to others. If the engine quits you're ditching, but that's the same as if you're flying over a big lake at 500'. No hazard to bystanders.
If you have an engine failure while waterskiing you are in effect already down so you would technically not need to make an emergency landing. You've in theory already landed.......but have simply not come to a stop. ;^)
@@gasdive agreed, no hazard to anyone on the surface here BUT hazard to the passenger if there is one. I realize the regulation talks about "persons or property on the surface" though so in my personal opinion as a non lawyer it seems problematic to say it's relevant to "Trent went waterskiing with a passenger"
Before you started talking, my first thought was wow - that can be used for shorter landing. Water will 'suck' the tires into it because of something called surface tension which will help slow the aircraft and keep the wheels planted for the shorter landing technique. It makes sense that bush pilots use it because it appears to be a legitimate use of physics with surface tension of water.
Obviously, this can cause an accident if you're not at the right power level because the craft will continue to slow down and be pulled into the water, or flip forward after sinking a certain amount. But, if the technique is used properly, I can see it being quite beneficial.
As for the brakes being wet - you can apply a technique which is learned in other countries during mandatory driver training classes before entering a puddle, or flooding on a road.... If you depress the brake pedal in such a way that the brakes skim the rotors, you can entire the brakes stay dry as water that gets on the disc after will be more easily swept away because of two dry surfaces moving over one another with next to no distance between them vs having 3 layers - 2 dry and 1 wet in the middle.... So you could use that technique and apply the brakes, if you are coming in for a landing, before you skim the surface to help keep the brakes dry. ie, what happens during hydroplaning.
Also, if you had a verbal discussion with your passenger and both of you were willing to take the risk, then you would've won in court as it falls under a verbal contract. You warned him of all of the risks, such as death, etc... so legally, by him agreeing, he signed a waiver. Section A, doesn't pertain to you. If you upheld section C by staying away, 500 feet, from all people and structures on the surface, then you couldn't have possibly broken section A by endangering them. If you had an engine failure, you would've sunk, flipped and endangered yourself, and your passenger - both of which had legally 'signed' a waiver allowing that event to take place.
You should've stood up for yourself.
Hey Trent, whatever flops your mop, looked awesome.. only good pilots do this and you nailed it!..thanks for sharing..
correction....only rich trust funder kids with parent purchased airplanes do this shit..the rest of us have to work for our airplanes and WE give a damn about the streamside wildlife habitat, which these little punks, clearly do not.
Sounds like another plea deal was brokered. "You do a PSA on the hazards of water skiing and we will cut you probation." Haaaaaa !! Reminds me of throwing RC planes out of your aircraft and landing on RC runways video. Trent, Trent, Trent. You are an OUTLAW !!!!!
Re: Inspector: "careless and wreckless anywhere other than a paved runway because there is no data in the performance charts". I haven't flown in 10+ years, but I remember performance charts that referenced a grass runway...so off the top of my head, I'm not sure what the inspector meant. Example, 1978 C172: "For operation on a dry, grass runway, increase distances by 15% of the "ground roll" figure."
This is a very good video, and the best part, IMO, is the advice to be proficient in wheel landings.
I can speak to this, since I have almost 50 years of tail wheel flying, in my C140 and C120.
As an aside, in all of my landings, I am focused on keeping the plane straight down the runway, maximizing rudder control.
Remember, Rudder for heading and Aileron for course.
I've never ground-looped; I've never even been close to doing so, and don't ever intend on doing so.
Be confident in your landings in a tail wheel airplane, whether it be wheel landings or three-pointers, be aggressive, don't be wishy-washy with the rudder.
One little nitpick. You are not skiing on "surface tension". That term refers to the specific way that water molecules attract each other to minimize surface area. It makes a drop of water falling through the air stay "drop" shaped, and placed on a surface bulge up rather than spread out, a stream of water hold together, and some small insects can stand directly on top of the water without penetrating it. You can take the surface tension out of water, such as by adding soap, but it's still water, and you could still ski on top of it as you could any other liquid of similar density. You're skiing on Newton's 3rd law (equal and opposite reaction), and it works because the water is relatively dense and can't get out of the way quickly. Your tires are hitting the surface and it's hitting back.
Regarding brakes. Many years ago I was watching one of the pioneering videos of super cubs landing on gravel bars in Alaska with water skiing approach, and that pilot said that he purposely applied brakes and kept the tires locked while skiing. His contention was that the speed differential between the tire's surface and the water is greater when the tire is not turning, and that by allowing it to rotate your'e lowering that speed differential, sort of like your upwind but downriver scenario (water moving with you). I'm also thinking that with a spinning tire you might get some Magnus effect, which pulls the water around the rear of the tire flinging it upward (as you say the struts get wetter). Any water that is thrown upward, is created by an opposing downward force on the tire.
I was thinking the same thing. Thanks for posting this.
Sooooo brakes on then?
Will enjoy your channel without water skiing you bring a lot of joy to arm chair pilots😊
The FAA will always err on the side of caution. Great video, as usual.
Just remember there are old pilots and bold pilots, but supposedly there are no old bold pilots, from someone who has been flying for 35 years, I love your videos AND your flying and abilities, just make sure you become an OLD pilot. Keep up the good work.
Let the haters, hate. They probably can't fly and are just jealous... and screw the FAA if they can't/won't give you a legal interpretation. I think that inspector was/is full of it! Keep up the good work!
JOe DeLeon uhhhh....Trent did have a passenger.
@@rhkennerly Passenger was aware of the dangers... if I understood it right, right?
JOe DeLeon indeed, but Trent was aware that as pilot in command he was in violation. He said so in the vid. LSA has enough safety problems without pilots intentionally violating regs. LSA could go away as quickly as it was granted. And since it’s not been the magic bullet to bring costs of flying down & bring in more people, it’s losing support because of it’s safety record.
@@rhkennerly I still think most Administrations (in fact, all of them...) think of "people" as childs to be told what to do (or as cerfs to be commanded and ordered at will...), and I for one don't like it. So I stand by my comment. Feel free to desagree, I have no problem with that. :>)
JOe DeLeon all rights & no responsibilities. Yet, a pilot’s conduct impacts the entire general aviation community. Every LSA or GA accident runs the insurance rates up for the rest of us. We all end up with higher premiums, limited geographic & time & operational restrictions, increased PIC & training requirements in order to maintain our coverage.
Aviation jackassery, especially when outside of regulations, impacts the community.
Maybe you can afford to run bare while skylarking a $150k+ machine. If your plane trips on a log & flips, just swim away (and if you drown, leave your children as wards of the state). But maybe you have no estate or wealth built up, no family to protect, so you don’t have liability insurance or an umbrella policy to protect your family’s assets, but most of us do. And jackassery on your part hurts us all.
shout out to the float guys in the video, love it.
also super informative man, much appreciated. always fun river runnin and water skiing here in southeast ak
What really concerned me was at 17:07 you said that they told you "landing anywhere but a paved surface can be considered careless and reckless." So they can claim a violation on you for landing on a grass runway???
Norfolk70 if you actually did harm to wherever you landed
That was my first thought !
If an inspector gets a wild hare and decided that the manner in which you did so was, in their opinion, careless and reckless....yeah.
@@henryfreund_ always replace your divets.
@@DamnTrue by that logic, and probably in actuality, an inspector could decide your choice of underwear was careless and reckless and violate you for it.
I have laid in a hospital bed after doing something dangerous that I said was fun, wile my buddies stood by and said I told you so. Lucky I was on my dirt bike and not in my plane...I hope you consider the risk over the fun factor Trent because I like you and enjoy seeing your life grow in your videos. I evaluated and greatly reduced my risk factor after having 2 boys knowing they depended on me as a father and never wanted their mother explaining why I took risk over being there for them as a dad, if I didn't make it. Now I watch in horror as they Evel Knievel life and I have to watch them do the same things I did. I didn't stop life, I just think about it now before I do it. Have some kids Trent its time lol ! Stay safe please...
Looks like a ton of fun ... but I'd be that guy that was just as lucky as you to have an inspector right there!
I've been riding motorcycles just about 30 years now, and I've lost count of the number of times people have told me I was going to die doing this or that. Very true - risk assessment is different for everyone ... even the police. 😂
Yeah' man me too, I like doing wheelie's cos it's cool & I get told I'm gonna get killed or crippled etc Yadda Yadda Yadda!
It's always by people that have never ridden & don't understand even basic physics they're just hater's because they're sad😂
I don't fly planes but I understood exactly where Trent was coming from, I follow his Chanel because he post's awesome content accompanied by awesome music & has introduced me to the awesomeness that is DRAGO ....
Keep up the great view Trent👍👍👍👍👍👍
I ride too and take my 8yo son away for weekends on it. Boy do I cop it for bad parenting (by the same parents who give their kids unfettered use of devices and are producing overweight, disconnected and bored kids... I could rave for hours on this!). How often do you hear "it's not you - it's the other guy"?? If I had a dollar... :-)
Thanks for being upfront and honest
You’re right! Walking out the door is dangerous....going back to bed and watching TH-cam videos for the rest of the day
I'm with you Mike.... Popcorn first.... LoL
I'm not a pilot, but have loved planes since I was a kid and first saw one. I've flown RC planes for years though, it's the closest I can get. You discussed this in such a way that I completely understood everything you were saying. I hate how regulators won't give you a legal definition so you can do it legally. They would rather just leave it up to a local inspector to define it on a whim, typical worthless government bureaucracy! I love the channel Trent, I love watching you Flying Cowboys go at it. Thanks for the tips and fun. Be safe, Best Wishes & Blessings. Keith Noneya
I love this type of vid because you are sharing your experience that others can benefit from. I believe it to be untenable for FAA to claim that landing off airport is careless and reckless because there is no POH performance information for doing so. I'm an aviation attorney and would be ecstatic to fight them on that one!
Stan Barankiewicz according to the FAA, a C-17 landing on a gravel strip is reckless and dangerous! What a joke 🤣
Stan Barankiewicz Contact him and get it done. Their laws are inconsistent and contradict themselves. Their rules require the shutting down of all rescue flights and all bush flying. They need o be prosecuted until Trump fires some trash.
Kind of a “Come full circle” day for me today. First, I got to meet your brother Kevin today (super great guy, BTW!) and we got to fly together on a short hop from Truckee to Oakland. And then I get home, and there’s a new video from the guy that got me into KitFoxes in the first place! Now that’s my kinda day! Oh, and I think I fall into the category of “Undecided” for the time being 😎
The way most laws are written now (in my opinion) are unconstitutional because they're vague and open to interpretation and subjectivity, which leaves people unsure if their actions will violate the law. And so many laws are what I call "add on" laws where they'll never be enforced unless you do other things wrong. I'm an attorney and have been practicing 12 years in Oklahoma City and have dealt with the FAA on a few issues but it's not my practice focus.
Great comment. Probably 90% of our federal government is unconstitutional. Just compare the enumerated powers against the myriad government agencies and all the regulations created by bureaucrats (as opposed to laws enacted by congress, many of which are still unconstitutional--i.e., illegal).
This is sooooo, true. I filed for an annulment from a wife who married me for the money and when I paid her debts off, she jumped on a plane back to Taiwan never to return. Fraud all the way. Well In Nevada Civil Rules of Procedure are written so poorly I cannot even serve her legally and binding as per treaties and the Hague Convention. So I have had to write motion after motion to correct their poor legislative fopaux. 3 years and I am still not done because Judges don't want to make the tough decisions.
Jarad...Give Tom our regards from new Zealand.
CAMERON NERDIN come to Texas, we do annulments by alternate service all the time. 😎
Enjoyed the vid. Call me a Vulcan but surfing a plane has to an ego thing. That aside, your video explained the pros and cons clearly and precisely. Keep up the good work!!
Flying in general "can be considered careless and reckless". Life, in general, can be considered careless and reckless. Those FAA inspectors are probably nose wheel drivers that always use flight following for their $100 hamburger flights....
I like what you said, and agree 100%. I wouldn't be a 'hater' of waterskiing with an aircraft, but I will say that one is putting oneself at greater risk by doing it. And I think you're saying the same. At the beginning of the clip when you introduced the topic, I thought, 'Never with a passenger.' Then thought of a friend begging me to waterski with him or her in the aircraft. And that's what happened to you.
I've never flown a tailwheel aircraft (which, according to another friend, means I've never flown!) and wouldn't do it with a tricycle geared aircraft--but the fact is that I don't think I'd be comfortable enough with my experience to do it. I fully understand the thrill of doing it--most of us at some stage have flown low enough to get that same thrill. But, hopefully, those that have done that, have done that alone. Reckless? Yes. Dangerous? Yes. I say reckless because I have a family to support. And if it wasn't dangerous there would be no thrill.
I don't fly anymore because I have PD, but this is the way I see it: comparing me flying low, to my dad flying low is just incomparable. Me with less than 200 hours versus him with close to 10,000 hours, some of which were WW2 flying low enough so that the cruisers were unable to bring their guns to bear on him...there's just no comparison. I wouldn't consider Dad (yes, with a family to support) to be reckless. But I would be.
Words of wisdom Trent... the more I watch your videos, the less you and the flying cowboys look like the flying circus I imagined in the beginning ( yes, that’s a compliment 😂) . The way you fly is awesome but inexperienced pilot should take example of your analysis and risk mitigation instead of thinking that what you’re doing is just fun and easy to shoot at home with their GoPro.
Keep the blue side up and long live your amazing channel !
Alex (France)
Always good to see you posting and giving us stuff to think about as well as a vid to watch
I keep watching this video please don't give up on the adventure of what you do if I can find the money to learn to fly I am going to to in some small part because of you
Absolutely right about Probably Shouldn't.
That being said, LIVE FREE OR DIE
Nobody should be able to tell you how to live your life. Liberty means having freedoms, but not infringing on other's freedom. As long as you're not stopping someone else from enjoying their freedom, the FAA should not tell anyone what to do.
FPVREVIEWS yeah.. all freedom, no responsibility. Yet every LSA wreck runs up the insurance premium on the rest of us. But man, aren’t you free.
what part of not "infringing on other's freedom" did you not understand? Personal Freedom means Personal Responsibility.
@@rhkennerly
Outstanding comment.
FPVREVIEWS and personal responsibility means following the rules you agreed to follow. Personal responsibility is what Trent is doing now: accepting responsibility for his actions.
We have a long history in the aviation community of publically discussing our errors, lack of judgment, & questionable calls openly & without rancor in hopes that others will learn from them. The earliest flying magazines I remember had columns titled, “I learned about flying from that.” They also featured NTSB & FAA reports on accidents, where every aspect of an incident is evaluated by the magazine staff writers.
@@rhkennerly Very true. A well informed decision is essential to making the right one for you. The issue here is someone else saying they know better than you do what is right for you, regardless. How would you like it if someone decreed that aviation was dangerous, and we should all take buses? I think we can all agree that water-skiing is the wrong decision for 99 percent (or more) of pilots, and it's a great thing that we have lots of reports to read about it, to remind us of just why it's not a good idea for us. But if we learn gradually, analyze all of the risks, and decide to give it a try, who are we hurting? That being said, It's the wrong decision for me, and i have no desire to see most pilots try it, but I will stand up for anyone's right to do it if they decide to. If everyone never did anything with an element of risk, our species would not exist. It will require an insane amount of risk by at least a small number of individuals in the future if we are to survive as a species as well. Think of the risk of flying the shuttle/orbiter for all those years.. lives lost, but we learned form it, accepted the remaining risk, and forged ahead. Today we have ISS because of it. Being too risk adverse leads to stagnation.
Hi Trent! When you were wrapping things up & said; " If you're going to do it, be safe & use a..." I thought you were going to say condom! Lol, but it was ".... couple of techniques I mentioned" or something along those lines. On the subject of aquaplaning, speed is definitely your friend. I haven't done it in a plane, just on a dirt bike, but it doesn't work unless you're going fast enough, in my case, flat out in 6th! Anyway love your vids & the opening music/footage gives me goosebumps. Please, don't ever change the music!
Oh boy, where to begin. First, before I tell the story, I’m an old dog -CFI, instrument instructor, and multi-I. I had no idea you young guys were doing this. In 1978 when I got out of the army, I went to work as ground crewman for a crop duster. His personal plane was a PA-16 Piper Clipper, a sweet little airplane. Before the season started we flew down to Florida and he demonstrated this technique. Somewhere I have pix buried in my junk. He used it as practice for spraying crops. He was also an insane drunk as was the business owner. We all survived the season and I learned to fly tail wheel with him. I got my private ticket in Athens, GA at Clark’s Flying Service. Mr. Clark drilled into my skull: “There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old-bold pilots.” Guys, unless you have a real operational need to do this, don’t do it. Then only learn it from some graybeard. Keep the greasy side down.
Really appreciate your honesty, humility and insights.
What you call surface tension is not at all surface tension. The correct term is dynamic pressure and is a totally different physics issue.
MyTech Yeah, had me wincing too, but used as a colloquialism it got the point across-albeit at the expense of propagating a common misconception about surface tension.
To be fair though, I didn't know what the correct term was (aside from planing) even though I've taught intro physics for years. I knew it had something to do with impulse/momentum but don't have enough experience with fluid dynamics to get further (without hitting up wikipedia).
I know several people that confuse dynamic pressure with surface tension. Dynamic pressure increases with increasing velocities and is affected by way too many variables to list. Surface tension doesn’t. Their respective properties are close but totally different.
He did say he was not a Physicist
I personally don't see any practical application for water skiing. But then there isn't much practical application to flying around in a kitfox either. You do it because it's a blast. I would try waterskiing if I had the right airplane. And landing on a grass strip is wreckless flying? That's hilarious. I guess that FAA guy has never seen any back country flying where you guys land up hills, on top of hills etc etc. He probably flew cessnas out of a big airport and anything else frightens him. Total disconnect from reality. So are all these alaskan dudes with videos of them landing on the water next to sand bars going to get letters from the FAA? Even the Anchorage FSDO would probably piss themselves laughing at that!
I was cringing as well. Surface tension? Lol. Especially after the preamble about how he was going to discuss the "physics" of how the stunt works. Someone didn't pay attention in an actual physics class. Good video though. I would never jump a motorcycle over 25 buses, but I certainly will watch someone else do it on my computer screen. It's fun to watch other people to crazy shit.
Honest yet vulnerable - brave talk, thumbs up.
Yo Trent,,
Very well thought out and the way you came across was very good!!
You covered it all basically, and were good at portraying your thoughts!! What more needs to be said!!
Don’t do it!! But if you are?? Be careful!!
I love you like a brother!!
Fly Low,,, Fly Safe,,,
G-Man
LoL, 200# at 40mph? Ok, not really wrong, at 175 my preferred speed is 39mph. But I grew up waterskiing, moved into wakeboarding and waterskiing. On a front deep water start, longline, I can plant my feet and stand as slow as 22mph. Drowned in spray until the boat gets up to speed. Really like this video though. Water is harder than most people think. And glass smooth water? Never good! On the bare feet, it is a knife edge digging into one point on your foot. A one inch ripple makes for a nice foot massage. Love it bro, keep the good stuff coming. Be putting maiden flight on my Flight Test Freedom Fox this week.
Whether you self-evaluate an operation being safe or not, keep in mind that everyone has a camera these days and the FAA is the sole judge of the catch-all regulation of careless and reckless operation.
The first self appointed police man!! Congrats!
Hey Trent, great video on the topic! I never thought about how you would actually want faster groundspeed over the water in this scenario. As pilots, it's second nature for us to always pick the slowest groundspeed (into the wind) when close to the surface or landing. Btw, check out the story of N3829D. It was a Beech 77 that crashed in Lake Meredith Texas in 1984. The pilot and passenger both died likely due to water skiing the airplane. According to the FAA report "the pilot had been known to skip wheels on the lake".
It sucks that they are unable to give you a definite answer on water skiing in open water but I can kinda understand. But I can see the reason for the sanction on open water. When you are coming in to land if you do mess up and the wheels sink under water you are so close to shore that even if you do flip you will likely not sink completely. On a lake that could be a couple hundred feet the same can not be said.
If you are by yourself and not risking another person you are only taking your life and your property into your own hands. That comes around to if you own it you can do pretty much anything you want with it as long as you do not attempt to make money off of destruction. For instance near where I live a woman killed her children in a house and wounded another. She is in jail and the house was owned by her brother. Her brother burned the house down, it was perfectly legal to do as he owned the house and didn't try to claim insurance on it's destruction. If you are water skiing and wreck the plane I would absolutely NOT try and file an insurance claim on it as you made a decision to do something that was hazardous because it will almost be guaranteed to be reported to the FAA for an investigation and end up with violations as well as possible fraud charges.
It's kinda like driving a vehicle when committing a crime, if you look in your insurance policy there is a section that will state that the insurance is invalid during the commission of a crime. So if you are blatantly speeding and hit another car and it is your fault the insurance company can actually deny the claim and leave you on the hook for it. The same goes for your health insurance. To add to that on health insurance they can also deny claims when you are performing reckless acts. Makes you think twice about stepping out your door in the morning.
Sorry for the long post btw and thanks for the video's Trent, my wife and I really enjoyed watching a lot of them before she passed away. www.hayesfh.com/obituary/shauna-marie-gill
I don't own a tail dragger, nor do I fly a tail dragger, but if I did, when I was ready I would damned sure water ski the thing!
Would I do it in public? Bush things should happen in the bush as I see it.
Great video Trent!
Thanks for your honesty and for sharing !
If landing 'anywhere but a paved runway' is 'careless and reckless', has the FAA ever heard of a seaplane? No less, have they heard of any grass strip ever? How about most of Alaska?
And of course they get you for going fast over water after briefing the risks and what to do in an emergency with your passenger, as opposed to slowing to land.
I don't think they have issue with landing on grass. They're not saying it's reckless in and of itself. They're just saying his Kitfox doesn't have the performance numbers for anything other than asphalt in the POH, which if true is a major oversight for a company that sells bush planes.
n122vu just an FYI, the builder of the kit is the “manufacturer” of the aircraft, not the kit provider. The builder is the one that gets the airworthiness certificate from the FAA after completion of the build. He/she is also responsible for writing the Pilot’s Operating Handbook for that particular aircraft after completing the mandatory test flight phase of usually 40 hours. No two completed experimental aircraft are exactly alike due to engine choices, propellor choices and installed equipment , even if both are from the same kit supplier. All weigh and perform slightly different from each other hence aircraft specific P.O.H.s must be forever attached to the aircraft they were written for. Hope this very brief explanation helps folks understand the origination of P.O.H.s for an experimental built aircraft. Thanks n122vu. I hope Trent inspires you and many more of his wingmen and women to join us in the skies.
Always love your videos, Trent.
Fascinating topic. And one I greatly appreciate you talking about. Looking at *just* the videos, to my (totally) ignorant eye it did seem like water-skiing an airplane was an excessively risky manoeuvre. Taken in light as a technique to safely reduce airspeed when landing on a river sandbar? A legitimate and potentially useful skill.
Big picture: I think we can all be appreciative of the FAA and the manner in which they work with the general aviation community in a reasonable and safety-focused manner. To keep our flying friends safe, as well as those of us still on the ground (or water.)
Kudos to Trent for having the courage to share his experience, and to own up to his mistake.
"So no waterskiing for me." ... Yeah, right. ... Now I want to see a video of you actually waterskiing, like behind a boat in a swimsuit, just to stick it to the FAA.
I learned to fly in a Piper Cub in the Panhandle of Texas where there are lots of what we called Playa Lakes in the rainy season. These ponds are up to half a mile across and a foot deep. They made great places to go sliding across the surface of the water on those fat balloon tires. Well, what else do you expect an invincible 16 year old kid with a student certificate in his pocket to do when out from under the watchful eye of his instructor. (I'm sure she (yes, a woman taught me to fly) knew what was going on.
Excellent amateur analysis. Your bravery and retrospection add value to the general aviation community.
Blessings
🙏🏻💕😇
:{D}
Trent, love all your videos, and I appreciate that you are passionate about flying enough to be honest and let us know about things that FAA shakes their finger at and scolds you for. We all can learn from other people’s mistakes and become more knowledgeable pilots. Keep up the great videos!!!
It sounds like you got screwed by the FAA. I agree with what you said about water skiing with passengers being an unnecessary risk, but like in your case where your passenger was the one that requested it, and they were ok with the risks involved, I don't see the issue. Sounds like a victimless crime, if a crime was even committed at all. I'm not a pilot (though hopefully that will change soon) but say someone wanted to take up water skiing, wouldn't it be beneficial to first experience it with another pilot in command? How would someone be able to do that unless the CFI had the new pilot as a passenger?
I know how u feel about giving tips, but I think you have done the right thing by giving tips. Ultimately we as pilots are the decision makers, it’s no different to making the choice to do aerobatics, we can try it because it looks fun on TH-cam, or we can decide not to, I would hope all pilots are responsible enough to know and stick to their limits. This water skipping is out of the question for me, I don’t feel right to risk it, but that’s just me.
"My buddy" flew for 24yrs without a license. Bermuda, Bahamas, lunch 200m away. FAA took his dad's license away bc of a 3rd party video on Facebook. He was pissed
fuck me, why?
This was awesome. Seems like a tough one to go out and publish but comes across as a really well considered and all encompassing discussion on the topic.
Dirt bike riders can ride over smooth water if you go fast enough ! It’s a skill like any other skill .
Guys up in my neck of the woods do the same with snowmobiles. I remember one spot where there was (as I remember) a 15-20 ft patch of clear water and a huge number of tacks on either side because the locals would use it as a shortcut.
Trent, you are amazing on several levels. You have a huge "bully pulpit" that you can use very effectively to promote reason and safety. Younger, newer (and less intelligent!) pilots need to hear your voice. I suspect that this little video has saved more than several lives and dozens of airframes to boot. You are that important now. PLEASE continue as a role model with a voice of reason and wise restraint. Your next video on the subject of safety should be on the use of helmets. Get Gentex to give you a pair of aviation helmets and shamelessly plug them from now on!
Good video Trent. I can appreciate all of the scientific reasoning, and assessment of risk.
P.S. upriver all day lol
You're a good Dude Trent. Love your heart for your fellow pilots. Great video.
Trent don’t let anyone get in you’re way. You didn’t get where you are by letting haters have brain space.
Honest assessment of one's choices... Here is a reality... Its not "IF" something happens, it is just a matter of "When" something happens. I used to ride street bikes when I was younger, and did lots of crazy stuff. One day I was out pushing the limits, and something told me to stop doing it, so I did. About 60 minutes later I had a freak accident and got a free ride to Balboa Hospital via helicopter... Life can be fun, and pushing the limit at times is necessary to build confidence in one's skills. But don't continue to push it... Mr. Murphy will show up and will let you know why you shouldn't push your luck. BE SAFE FOLKS!!!
You should have let the inspector know that you WERE coming in for a landing, a touch-and-go! As some have said, I would hate for the first time needing to use this 'landing' technique to be coming in slow for a full stop on a sandbar. It makes far more sense to be proficient in landing techniques and options that can be practiced before having to execute them, the very reason we touch-and-go on pavement.
Touch and go practice on the water. Awesome.
Just an A&P mechanic wandering through. Would like to point out the potential for water to get into your wheel bearings with water skimming. Could cause them to rust. Rust and pitting is usually immediate rejection so that could set you back a couple $100 for new wheel bearings. Also the possibility of over-speed for the wheel bearing. Basically spinning it so fast that the friction of the bearing produces enough heat to thin out the grease. The grease gets thin enough to a point where it doesn't lubricate. Worst possible case the bearing blows apart completely or it seizes in place. All that said you could have to skim for quite some time above the aircraft's landing speed to cause this to happen. Just wanted to throw that out there.