If you want to learn more about everything I said, I have a longer video that discusses all of this!! Check it out here: th-cam.com/video/K9Tfivf5bAI/w-d-xo.htmlsi=xwHhpBKiDqHN92V4 www.mdpi.com/1996-1073/14/6/1732 If you are still scared to charge to 100%, check out these studies and discussions. Calendar aging will probably degrade it first: Pay attention to the storage temperatures in this study and capacity fade: iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1149/2.0411609jes/pdf www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2589004224015128 diysolarforum.com/threads/collection-of-studies-about-lifepo4-degradation.14823/ www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Calendar-ageing-of-LiFePO4-C-batteries-in-the-life-Swierczynski-Stroe/8ce543196b4fac97fd89c74a6f456bcfb907a32e vbn.aau.dk/ws/portalfiles/portal/407465140/energies_14_01732.pdf Original video: th-cam.com/video/UbZiHzflKMY/w-d-xo.html
I agree with your theory of taking the cells down to Zero percent sort of. But I only do this when I messed up overcharging the cells and inadvertently the charge goes over 3.45 volts for each cell. With my Japanese LIFPO 4 cells they hate being charged over 3.45. If I charge them to 3.60 volts or more the whole pack (4cells) will go out of balance Then I have to bottom balance to bring them back to being balanced. BTW it's not that easy to bring LIFEPO4 cells to zero % It takes some effort.
i agree with you 100% but i have a question ... if i am using a EF delta 3 Plus as an overkill ups and a phone charger lol (until it is needed i live in Central Florida)... where should i keep the charge level iyo
This is just logical, if you have one at 80% and one at 100% there will be more weight in one than the other, so of course they won't be balanced ;) Thank you for all you do.
I have been living off Grid and installing off grid Solar Systems sense 1978. I used to have to put 20 or 30 gallons of distilled water in my batteries once a month. Now I don't even look at them more than once or twice a year and no water needed. I really appreciate your channel and content Will. Keep up the great work my friend.👍
OMG - you made my PTSD flare up! LOL! i *HATED* having to "water" my batteries!! LiFePO4 is just so amazing! best solar upgrade - EVER! AND the fact you can just add more capacity, anytime, regardless of Ah - and it's 100% usable - cherry on top.
Years ago, I bought a travel trailer and the dealership provided a small flooded battery (cheap) and I was always having to stop by the storage facility just to water it, I couldn't wait to replace it with an AGM version. I wish I had LiFEPo4 back in those days. oh well...
I can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard ppl say to charge their LiFEp04 batteries to 80% and only discharge to 20% to maintain the longevity and extend the life cycles of the battery. But they don’t take into account that they are creating a bigger issue of not top balancing their batteries. I completely understand your frustration because you’ve already given this information on your channel but some still don’t pay attention and it seems like you’re repeating yourself a lot. Remember this, you’re saying old things to new ppl. Great video Will.
@@marioluna4344 and thank you, very true. Need to stay objective. I got bit emotional because I read a ton of them and my anger got the best of me haha thank you for the appreciation. Hope I can help
@DeniSaputta Phone batteries are a different chemistry, Will is talking about LFP. Honestly, phone batteries are much more dangerous, don't confuse the two.
We build our batteries with active balancing. Our batteries don't need to hit that high voltage to start balancing. Will does not like active cell balancing but someday he will get it!!:)
I appreciate your detailed answer. And your explanation. Your frustration is evident. I have the same situation, I’m a consultant Horticulturist specializing sustainable farming/ gardening. Misinformation and “grandpa “ did this. Keep on my friend. You are helping us newbies.
I must say you have come a long way it is amazing to see how much your life has changed after starting your channel so many years ago, to see what you have accomplished gives me hope for my own family
absolutely! I have worked with LiFePO4 cells for past 4 years now esp in custom built battries for car and charging to 100% and discharging mostly to 10-15% has healthier cells than say charging to 100% and discharging only to 50% and recharging again. (these cells are swelling or imbalancing often) So, my conclusion is cycle as much as you can everytime for better results. I also have 3.5 years old 280Ah cells in storage mode (40%) which I cycle every 6 months or so and their capacity is still similar about 0.5-1Ah difference (aging probably) so i can verify what you said this from my experience.
Could you please explain your 6 month cycling procedure for the batteries in storage. Do you charge them up from 40% to 100% first, discharge them to 10-15%, then bring them back up to 40%?
@@carll5742I charge to 3.65v and discharge to 2.5v,, so i know the capacity, mark it and charge again to 40%... For max voltage I have set it to 3.45v in mine. and in 48v all of them are above 3.42v at 100%. I do a slow charge so 3.45v is like 99.9%. I can set this to 3.65v but not much difference is there and I set that 3.45 because I didnt know things in the beginning and since its like already 100%I havent changed the settings in the bms.
Hey brother, great content as always. One thing to keep in mind and not get frustrated about is that your TH-cam audience is constantly growing. You've got a lot of us faithful viewers but you're constantly getting new people who only joined recently etc and don't watch old content, so it feels like you're covering the same ground over and over but you're actually covering the same ground with different people. Keep up the good work!
also some people get stuck on what they thought was true and don't want to let that go. they see advice about lithium batteries and they think that applies to all batteries with lithium in the name. very similar to how when lithium batteries first came out, people would apply advice that was given about lead acid batteries to lithium batteries. it took a while and a lot of effort by various manufacturers to get people doing the 80/20 thing for their cell phones. now that most people do that, new phones do it automatically and show 100% when it's actually 80%, people don't realize it's doing that and are still doing 80/20 manually based off of what the screen says, so in reality they're actually only charging their phone to 64% 😂
I would just like to say that everything I have learned about solar has come from your channel if not for your knowledge I would have never felt confident enough to even think about putting together a solar system, you are literally the reason that I don't have a power bill today. Thank you so much for your effort and your channel because the information that I have learned from you has been life-changing for my family, we are very low income family and frankly without the stimulus checks that we got a couple years ago I would never have been able to obtain the system that I have put together. That being said we are thankful for what we have and I appreciate all the knowledge that I have obtained from your Channel thank you so much will
I use a delta pro ultra with 2 batteries 12kwh connected to a transfer switch powering my home 24/7 when the sun goes down it's at 100% and when I wake up around sunrise they usually are at 30-20% Thanks for the video more information is always appreciated.
Will, I am very thankful for your studies and videos. I am not nearly the expert that you are because I don't have the resources that you do in studying LiFePo4 cells and determining what will work in my system. The work you put into this and your knowledge are invaluable to me. Thanks again for your videos, and the time you've spent collecting data! You have helped me tremendously! You are the reason I have a successful system!
Still running on Tesla modules since your video in the trailer ages ago. Like you mentioned with your car, different chemistry / different protocol. Inverter and smart shunt programs keep us in the safe zone. Love your work. 🙏🏼
Will best rant I've heard in awhile we put ours together finally 22oo solar that outdoor rated 300lb stand alone you showed and a 3000 watt eg4 run straight to a 30 amp RV plug waiting to finish building the house for future innovation
An army friend once told me when teaching: 1-“Tell the them what you want to tell them” 2-“Tell them what you are going to tell them” 3-“Tell them” 4-“Tell them what you told them” lol. So true.
Yeah. We had once a politician who said it plain. People are stupid. And obviously, with so much knowledge, nobody can learn everything. And so, everybody will be ignorant in everything else outside of personal area of expertise. No problem, when you do not need that knowledge. But when you need, just learn and all is fine. Anyway, the problem is that people forgot to listen. It is an actual epidemic. People will not fucking listen. People will not listen even when they come to you asking. They always interrupt. They always need to counter you with something. When explaining something, is like trying to stick two powerful magnets on the similar polarization side. It seems that is working and suddenly it just slides away. We are doomed. Idiocracy will be our Armageddon:(
5-"Ask them to repeat what you just told them", works best in the conversations where the other party just wait for their turn to talk and doesn't answer questions, etc.
@@ehombane You would be surprised how many people would claim they answered the question, when they are answering some other question they made up in order to deflect, and aren't able to repeat the original one. It usually observe it in the conversations about religion, and the other side tip dance around the difficult questions.
@lawrencedavidson6195 more specifically, it is called an idiom. And my response is called a joke, though is really more of a wry observation on the intellect of the average TH-cam commenter.
Your frustration is clear! Thanks again for another good vid. Your point about why spend time and money building a system if you're not going to use its capacity is a good one. I've been thinking about solar battery "backup" for critical loads during rare times that we have grid outages, but there's really no reason I shouldn't design my system to be tied in for those specific loads etc while the grid is up, be able to fail back to the grid if I need to service the system, and still be available for backup power.
Wise advice from Will. His first hand experience plus grasp of the latest scientific literature is distilled into clear simple advice. It will be quite a job to educate the entire world population about batteries and solar systems, so I hope he doesn't get frustrated with those that still don't understand. Just like in school, there always be some students that never get it and drop out.
I also suffered from 100% charge cycling derangement syndrome for awhile and came to the same conclusion, the batteries were purchased to be used. They now get a 2.5hr Top Up/Balance Float every day and are full and ready by 4:00pm which coincidentally is when Rolling Blackouts and Power Emergencies are the most likely to start.
For some reason, I simply cannot retain this technical information. When it comes time to do my build I am hoping you will offer a series of instructional videos that boil it all down into a concise lecture. Perhaps you already have. I will need it. I do consider you an expert and have been paying attention for several years. Thanks for your professionalism.
You can adjust the voltage they balance at, correct. But you are most assuredly missing the point Will is emphasizing. Balancing below 95% state of charge is counterproductive due to the flat discharge curve of LFP. Two cells can be at identical voltage and be at very different states of charge.
yup, totally agree. my cells are never in balance because the solar and usage is always cycling between 30 and 80 percent. To get them balanced, I have to initiate a grid charge. In fact, a call to Signature Solar suggested it.
30 to 80 with perhaps monthly to 100% to top balance is probably the very best way to treat the cells. With LFP it's highly likely with such a use case the cells would age out or the BMS would die before you'd ever cycle degrade them below 80% life.
We have free-at-night electricity presently so it’s easy to top off the battery 8pm to 6am. When the battery BMS says “no ,thanks “I assume it has top balanced the cells.
It depends on the BMS. Many won’t balance until they reach 3.5V . Others can be set lower through software. 3.4V is good voltage to keep cells from degrading.
This video was the highlight of my evening. You have taught me well over the past few years and everything you say agrees with other literature I have read. I made a sizable investment in a 62kW/h battery system supplying energy to a pair of Schneider XW 6848 inverters. It has been a huge learning curve for me but you, David Poz, Everyday Dave, and a few other great TH-camrs have really helped me through my project. Thank you for your excellent content.
My system is only used for backup power when needed. Power is off at all other times to the system. I try to massage my batteries every couple of months. (I run them through a charge, discharge, then charge back up again). They always naturally settle around 53v. Everyone's system is different but keep in mind... Voltage is only 1 part of being 100% charged. Make sure you are at 100% absorption! E+I, otherwise they are NOT fully charged
I have a 15w 12V solar panel charging a 10 pack of 1.2V rechargeable AA batteries, all factory original by SolarGoesGreen that is now at least 8 years old. These little batteries can hold upto 83% capacity max, but it is more than enough for 12V LED lights inside two sheds. The system was getting tossed, so I saved it and been using it for the last 3 years with 1% capacity degradation during this time. Old panels and batteries are worth saving!!!
Some people just want they're batteries to be as unbalanced as they are. Don't sweat the morons, most people today have more money than sense, but some of us really appreciate what you do and value your thoughts on the matter so keep doing what you do!
I'm off-grid and have 30KwH of storage. I hold my batteries at 100% for 3 hours every day during the summer when I need electricity for A/C and during the winter it is about every two days.During the summer my batteries get down to about 75% by morning and winter around 80%.
all i can say is thanks, like many I was under the impression that lifepo4 was behaving like other cell type but it make sense to look at what it is and using it properly!
Absolutely the best informative channel ever! Been following you for years ….only wish that you would consider adding the smaller Portable solar generator reviews again…as you know , they’ve come a long way now and we need your reviews help the less experienced consumers make the best choices!! Really appreciate your time and efforts!!
That’s what Will was building when I started watching his videos. It became obvious that the good ones like the Delta Pro are logical only for their portability. You can DIY a much better and less expensive portable unit with a 5 kilowatt hour server rack battery and an all in one inverter. If you want the bells and whistles,just buy add - on 12 v or usb chargers just like you do at home. Do you take your phone charger everywhere you go?
I just installed a Siekon 100 amp-hour battery I bought through Will's link. So far, it's looking really good! I live in a travel trailer and am installing a 12-VDC system for all of the usual stuff, plus a 48-VDC system with inverter for all of the 120-VAC things. Will's videos are super helpful.
Right on the money, keep ‘Em coming. Thanks Will. 👍 That’s pretty much what I do with my home’s LFP batteries. P.S. My 2019 Model3P is typically only charged to 65%, especially in Summer, unless I need more- which is pretty rare. It’s NEVER been above 95%, even for a big trip, which retains some regen. So it’s now over 5 years old, and my degradation is really very minimal, something like 6.5% or so, and no significant change in the last few years. These batteries will last a VERY long time with just a little bit of care.
We live in an RV in the southwest with 500w of panels and a 100 ah battery. Usually at 100% before lunch. We use it and it's back up the next day. We don't keep track of discharge. It takes no effort and we barely think about it. If not discharging enough reduces battery life it's fine. I'll pay a bit more long term to not think about it
Will I’ve got the EG4 Pro / 18K PV, outdoor battery, it’s set up to run the house along with a solar array. My PGE highest price tier starts at 4:00 pm and runs until 9:00 pm. I’ve got it set to charge to 100% and deplete down to 10%. (Signature Solar recommendation) Sometimes the battery is at about 50% right at 4:00. I could quick charge it before the high tier or I can let it deplete before sunrise and run the house off of the grid during early AM hours. Based on this video, running all the way down before charging the next day will keep the cells balanced and add life to the battery. My initial thought when I first started this venture was to stay off PGE at all costs. Thank you for this video, I have a different view now. 👍
Both the last & this video explains everything very well Will but there is ONE key detail not stated in any way. WHAT VOLTAGES are you calling 0% - 50% - 100% SOC 0%=3.000, (50%=3.200) & 100%=3.400 (Where 3.200 = Stated Nominal by Manufacturers.) - OR - 0%=2.500. 50%=3.075 & 100%=3.650 The actual Termperature Ranges should be mentioned as well (I know, repeating endlessly the same over & over). Such as Optimal Preffered Temp is 25C/77F and optimal working temp range is 15C-35C 59F-95F Last point, you covered the Cycling Process and the differences between EV and ESS charging & the associated stresses. Great that is REALLY Important to drive home. People still have extensive difficulties understand the whole Full / Partial Charge cycles and how that works. A Proper ESS system as you know very very rarely will ever run a full charge cycle, if properly built, it should really only need a 1/3rd Charge Cycle per day (assuming the system has 3 days of energy storage). * This of course will vary according to the Installed Energy Storage Capacity as many people do have more than 3 Days reserve on hand. Solve the overall Confusion by stating actual Voltages & Temps etc for the Specific Chemistry which will address the vast majority of the ongoing debates of the numerous "Opinions" that everyone posits. How would you want your Heart Surgeon Taught ? With only partial details and letting him figure it out along the way, or with full & proper detailed information & knowledge ?
The best man for lithium and related info'. I'm also guilty of checking my lithium gear every day but then I live on a ycht in the tropics and have to walk past the meters many times a day. So listen to the man newbies - he won't lead you wrong
Great video. The crappy thing is that when you have closed loop communication with your batteries, the manufacturer won't let their batteries be discharged to zero. Some won't let you get below 20%... 10% with eg4 batteries when communication is enabled.
Well said. I religiously charge all of my lifepo4 to 100%. I literally just capacity tested my DIY 272ah trolling motor battery tonight. After 4 years of hard use it still has near 100% capacity. Specifically 99% at 11.87v. It would have easily got to 100 if I discharged to 2.5v per cell
Very helpful discussion. I admire the that you’ve taken this opportunity to help clarify this. Your content always gives me the right level of confidence. When our time arrives when we switch our focus from heat pumps to solar…my bother and I, will be (and are) really glad for all this practical knowledge you give us. Much appreciated.
Got it. The last video did not seem to deliniate to well between lithium, lithium hybrd chemistry, and lifePo4 solar and storage. Maybe I am just thick. That being said, this explanation makes it crystal clear. I have a 5,120 watt portable solar system I use for power outages and hurricanes. I recently charged it to 100% and have left it there for several days now. Tomorrow I will start a rundown on it until around 50%. Thanks for the great info.
This is TH-cam, so the comments *will* have kooks, contrarians, and other "experts" muddying the waters. The truth does not need defending, but it sometimes does need explaining. That's what you do so well. Keep at it.
For most standard solar setups; IE some EG4 server rack batteries; what is your recommendation on amount of time at 100% to balance? 30min? Hours? And…. Minimum once a week? Once a month? Asking because obviously if you can output to grid and get $$$ back; extra power should take that route. But if you can’t top off at 100 to balance; how often should you “force” a balance with an either grid or generator? 👍
Will... I'd never think you made a mistake. But I'm new to all this & what's obvious to you is not to me, so I ask questions to clarify. And there's so many others out there that contradict you, some being technical support folks, it gets confusing for us newbies. Try & be patient with us dummies.
My only issue with discharging to 0 is that if you do this regularly and then a storm hits and you lose grid power, you've just pooched your system because it's been depleted when you need it most. Same thing applies to off grid, Murphy's Law states that you will have no sunshine for 5 days immediately after discharging your system to 0.
Exactly! Need to stay charged. If you are hitting zero, need more panels and batteries. But if you need the power and only cycling to 20%, no reason not to go to zero. Use every bit you can
Personally I charge to 14v (3.5V/cell) the reason being that my solar charges at a relatively low C rate and so 14v is pretty nearly 100% and it allows any high cell to go higher which increases the balance current on a resistive balancer and so speeds the balance operation for the high cell particularly if the balancer can still function when not charging. I set the balancer cut in at 3.4v/cell which is just at the bottom of the upper ‘knee’ this seems to have worked well. I also have packs with active balancers that I also set to start at 3.4v as any lower as I have found any lower can actually be counter productive. I actually don’t recommend going to zero, the reason being some usable reserve is good and also one doesn’t want the risk of leaving in zero state of charge as then self discharge can push them lower. I feel that running close to zero is bad management and I do think it is good to have that reserve. The JK-BMS even has provision for an ‘emergency’ and it’s nice to have some capacity to make that available safely. I also run hybrid which puts certain constraints on the high and low level cutoffs in order to enable use of charge sources without a lithium profile. As well as having a redundant system.
I like your video, thank you for makeing it and I believe what you're saying. What I'd like to know is there a different in which volt setting I should use. I believe the battery instructions state 100% ( is 27.2V, yet it also says 100% ( is 29.2V So, which is the setting should I use on a 24V LiFePo4 battery system. Thanks again for all your informative video!
I'm new to all this solar stuff, and I'm doing my research. Your channel has become my go to for accurate info. My situation is a bit different. I'm setting up a small, portable system to keep in my Jeep for camping and trail side repairs. I will be running a 100ah lifepo4 battery. Never more than 2. Batteries will be stored for long periods, mostly in the garage in winter. Temp no lower than 45 f. Right now I have yet to order my battery, but I have a couple of 12ah lifepo4 batteries I've been experimenting with. So7nds like you're saying a 100% charge before storage won't do any real harm, but dropping to as low as 50% is probably better. Anyway, I like what you said about not stressing about it, because once I get everything set up with my controller (looks like a victron energy smartsolar 100/30). I plan on making sure storage voltage is OK, checking charging when I set it up, and not worrying otherwise. 1 have 2 160w fold up panels I will be using, which should be plenty, ( probably overkill),even on cloudy days. If I end up with 2 batteries, I'll probably go to 24v for the controller, and to help with my 1000w inverter and power tools. Anyway, thanks for the great info.
That's exactly what i tell ppl since yrs - and i absolutely understand why you release this video ;-) A small side fact: It is not "the one ppl" that doesn't want to learn....there are always new beginners...beginning to learn ;-)
Will, You were crystal clear, your reasoning was crystal clear. I think you are wasting your breath by going over this again. Anyone who either didn't understand the first time around, or simply thinks they know better than you is not likely to benefit from your continued effort at education. Hat's off to you for your persistence though.
Battery longevity begins at the factory: In a study published today in Joule, researchers at the SLAC-Stanford Battery Center report that giving batteries this first charge at unusually high currents increased their average lifespan by 50% while decreasing the initial charging time from 10 hours to just 20 minutes.
Thanks Will for the Honesty 😉❤ Most People don't use there System everyday so they are grasping at Straws to know the Best they can do with the Money they have Spent.... For Example, people think of a Solar power Station as a Generator that gets used once in a blue Moon....:)❤
Will, Please do a teardown of the new Bluetti Elite 200v2. It has a huge inverter (2600w), can supposedly handle a 5200 watt surge for a few seconds and another YT tester found it to have 96 percent of rated capacity. No one else has torn it down and the other YT channel noted that it seems like the BMS is improved. Also, it is much more compact than previous 2kw models, so they are using different batteries compared to everything else. Thanks for your excellent channel, forum and product page. You information is extremely valuable. Encouraging people to note any problems or make suggestions in the forums is also a great way to empower the community and give constructive feedback to reputable, responsive companies like Bluetti and Litime.
I remember some relatives changed out their solar panels, idk if he said they where 20 or 25 years old they did deliver to little voltage after all them years, hanging outside in pretty harsh Scandinavian climate. Will i have to say, the more i watch your videos the more confident im becoming setting up a solar system in the future at the old house, gonna start slow with being able to charge phones and a 12/24v fridge, getting expensive changing the propane (a 10kg flask is 35$ if you change in your old canister!!!!!!!!!) so if we halven the propane and never have to use the generator again a smaller solar system will pay itself off pretty fast.
I have some solar set up as parallel to the utility. I run freezers and my internet gear full time on the solar. When we have lots of sun, I run a dehumidifier in my basement. The SOK batteries are in my basement, which stays at 60F to 72F degrees. The batteries report anywhere from 119 to 126 cycles, and the system has been running constantly for 18 months. With the dehumidifier, I regularly cycle between 100% and 75% over a day and the lowest I have ever had the batteries was about 38%, if memory serves. I use Solar Assistant to keep an eye on things, and the data jibes with what I see on the packs and inverter. Many thanks to Will for the info. I started the solar journey after a video he made just showed up on my TH-cam feed a couple of years ago. There is no better and trusted source of information on solar and the pluses/minuses and configuration/setup.
I don't set my cutoff no lower than 15% because my soc meter goes out of sync.(eg4) I've had it shut off on me at 10%. I'm not too worried about it, I think I'll get 10 years no problem if not 20. I do top and lower balance when I get long gloomy days in the winter. In the summer, it runs non-stop. Right now it fully charged and is in power save mode. I'll probably switch back off grid in the morning to rest the batteries at full charge. I think our results are to be announced through further experience.
Thank you Will :) We have learned a ton of knowledge from you videos. We try to keep our main system 15,000wh topped up to 100% at least once or twice per week to balance the cells. P.S. Just wanted to say thank you again for the education :) P.P.S. AWESOME CHANNEL !!!!!
After setting everything up properly, I worry more about the equipment AROUND my whole system rather than the cells themselves. It usually fails first, and a failure on your gear may definitely mess up your cells. Awesome video as always.
Am an electrical technician with my own solar system, with a 30kw battery. I agree with you. When you are right, you're right. Keep it up. My system goes up to 100 daily, but it goes down to below 40 percent, average during the night, before the sun comes up. Not that big...but it is perfect in my world. From South Africa. (Place where Elon Musk grew up....)😉
I purchased the BLUETTI Ac200max cause of your content on the unit for two years now I been using it for running everything in my room unit goes down to like 40 percent by 1 pm is charged with 5 180 watt panels I don’t do anything just let it do it’s thing does this video goes for power station like the BLUETTI or for DIY units only..Thanks great video 🔥🔥
I really appreciate your videos. When I first bought my SOK batteries I was so worried id ruin them by not charging them correctly with my solar. But all I did was set the voltages where they needed to be per your videos and the manufacturer and I havent had any issues. They work! I was even worried about going below 20 percent! But not anymore!
Been running cheap amazon batteries full time. I am completely off grid. Paid for 300 ah at 24 volt 2 years ago. Still charges above rated capacity. I get 317 ah. I charge to 100 percent and drain to zero very often as I run my a/c and gam8ng computer off it.
Assuming ten thousand cycles for the batteries, I bought above average batteries, anticipating ten to fifteen years. Assuming battery technology does not improve beyond what it is today, these will last me until I am 90. When I can get batteries which are a 50% improvement over what I have now, I will replace my system, and my kids can figure out what to do with them in the future. Kinda like buying a computer: wait six months, double the speed, quadruple the capacity, lower the price, you never buy a computer. Simply buy the best you can afford with an eye for expansion, don't worry yourself about "did I do the best I could", and listen to Will for good info.
Great clarification. I have too many customers asking me this question, and many customers come to me because they have problems after setting the charge cut-off SOC to 95% or 80%. It may be the fear of cycle life brought by the lead-acid battery era. Many people are worried that setting it to 100% SOC will reduce the battery cycle life. Most manufacturers' batteries have a cycle life of more than 6,000 times. Assuming that they are charged and discharged once a day, there are 16 years. In fact, the cycle life will be better than this. In addition to the balancing problem you mentioned, the SOC calibration function of the BMS can only be activated when it is fully charged.
You are correct . I first started watching you in the camper. Most people are afraid because of lithium battery fires a few years ago , the chemistry of lipo4 is different and safe, they should be treated according to its use .Some people confuse them with lithium that is dangerous to keep at top charge. Teaching is difficult, :-)
🇨🇦YOU ARE PREACHING TO THE CHOIR,,WE UNDERSTAND,,,THERE IS JUST SOME PEOPLE THAT WILL NEVER LISTEN OR JUST WANT TO CAUSE YOU AGGRAVATION,,,THANK YOU FOR THE GREAT INFORMATION
We love our system, and it's doing amazingly well. Unless we have an extended period of snow, it will last 3 to 4 days with a full charge. And we'll let it drop down to 2% or so before we actually fire up the generator for a bit. This winter, we're hoping to avoid even running the generator if possible after we just added a string of 8 more 540 Watt bifacials to our array. (Found a fella selling them for $40 each as they had some minor cracks that we sealed with silicone. Could NOT pass up that deal!). Always look forward to some Will Prowse "school". Keep it up professor.
Use well matched cells, bring them up to 95%+ regularly so that the required balancing current is low and the balancing done by a typical BMS is fine. The only need for a high current balancer is if you have mismatched cells since you have to contain cell voltage at much higher currents. It's been entertaining seeing the community slosh back and forth and disputes rage about how to care for lifepo4 over the years but all the time I've just been doing this based on the original charge profile of my Victron MPPT chargers on the basis of "If it's good enough for Victron, it's good enough for me".
For my sailboat which is on shore power 24/7 i kept the end voltage at 3.46V and start active balancing at 3.43V. Due to curve is flat until 3.4V thats the first safe place to detect 95% SOC
Simple way I found to explain it. Think of each cell as being its own battery. If one of them is not ever getting fully charged then it's not going to last as long.
Another great video. I have a question. My inverter has adjustment for Float V, Absorption V, Equalization V, and Shut down %. What do I adjust to allow it to charge to 100%? when set to the specs on the battery it will only charge to 69% according to the inverter.
Great video ty Will lhelps alot for me as im a prepper so I don't use solar all the time lol never seen you this discombobulated but I don't blame you I've watched you for years and everything you said is correct
I never thought to charge my main off-grid system with my secondary portable system. I’ll try it! Maybe I can run the 450 watt AC without worrying it will drain the batteries overnight.
I think some people trust in the “education system” and will take the advice of a college professor with a PHD at the drop of a hat but will question a young man on TH-cam with his hat turned backwards. Just keep up the great work Will, don’t let the nay sayers change who you are. The rest of us trust your advice like it came from our own mother…
If you want to learn more about everything I said, I have a longer video that discusses all of this!! Check it out here: th-cam.com/video/K9Tfivf5bAI/w-d-xo.htmlsi=xwHhpBKiDqHN92V4
www.mdpi.com/1996-1073/14/6/1732
If you are still scared to charge to 100%, check out these studies and discussions. Calendar aging will probably degrade it first:
Pay attention to the storage temperatures in this study and capacity fade: iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1149/2.0411609jes/pdf
www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2589004224015128
diysolarforum.com/threads/collection-of-studies-about-lifepo4-degradation.14823/
www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Calendar-ageing-of-LiFePO4-C-batteries-in-the-life-Swierczynski-Stroe/8ce543196b4fac97fd89c74a6f456bcfb907a32e
vbn.aau.dk/ws/portalfiles/portal/407465140/energies_14_01732.pdf
Original video: th-cam.com/video/UbZiHzflKMY/w-d-xo.html
I agree with your theory of taking the cells down to Zero percent sort of. But I only do this when I messed up overcharging the cells and inadvertently the charge goes over 3.45 volts for each cell. With my Japanese LIFPO 4 cells they hate being charged over 3.45. If I charge them to 3.60 volts or more the whole pack (4cells) will go out of balance Then I have to bottom balance to bring them back to being balanced. BTW it's not that easy to bring LIFEPO4 cells to zero % It takes some effort.
@mannyfragoza9652 zero as in 2.5V per cell. Right?
i agree with you 100% but i have a question ... if i am using a EF delta 3 Plus as an overkill ups and a phone charger lol (until it is needed i live in Central Florida)... where should i keep the charge level iyo
This is just logical, if you have one at 80% and one at 100% there will be more weight in one than the other, so of course they won't be balanced ;) Thank you for all you do.
@@antonyjh1234 🤣🤣
I have been living off Grid and installing off grid Solar Systems sense 1978. I used to have to put 20 or 30 gallons of distilled water in my batteries once a month. Now I don't even look at them more than once or twice a year and no water needed. I really appreciate your channel and content Will. Keep up the great work my friend.👍
OMG - you made my PTSD flare up! LOL! i *HATED* having to "water" my batteries!! LiFePO4 is just so amazing! best solar upgrade - EVER! AND the fact you can just add more capacity, anytime, regardless of Ah - and it's 100% usable - cherry on top.
Years ago, I bought a travel trailer and the dealership provided a small flooded battery (cheap) and I was always having to stop by the storage facility just to water it, I couldn't wait to replace it with an AGM version. I wish I had LiFEPo4 back in those days. oh well...
After listening to you via TH-cam; then going to your forum. You're the most thorough person when it pertains to solar. Thx, Will!
Agree. That's why I follow Will.
So easy to listen too as well.
Offgridgarage does a lot of testing that is very interesting as well.
I can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard ppl say to charge their LiFEp04 batteries to 80% and only discharge to 20% to maintain the longevity and extend the life cycles of the battery. But they don’t take into account that they are creating a bigger issue of not top balancing their batteries. I completely understand your frustration because you’ve already given this information on your channel but some still don’t pay attention and it seems like you’re repeating yourself a lot. Remember this, you’re saying old things to new ppl. Great video Will.
@@marioluna4344 exactly!!! This guy gets it
@@marioluna4344 and thank you, very true. Need to stay objective. I got bit emotional because I read a ton of them and my anger got the best of me haha thank you for the appreciation. Hope I can help
phone battery only has one cell, you don't need to balance it.
But they think this solar battery is just one cell like a smartphone.😂
@DeniSaputta Phone batteries are a different chemistry, Will is talking about LFP. Honestly, phone batteries are much more dangerous, don't confuse the two.
We build our batteries with active balancing. Our batteries don't need to hit that high voltage to start balancing. Will does not like active cell balancing but someday he will get it!!:)
I appreciate your detailed answer. And your explanation. Your frustration is evident. I have the same situation, I’m a consultant Horticulturist specializing sustainable farming/ gardening.
Misinformation and “grandpa “ did this.
Keep on my friend. You are helping us newbies.
Thank you for all your time and hard work. Those who don’t get it won’t. I live off grid and you are a great resource to pull from.
I must say you have come a long way it is amazing to see how much your life has changed after starting your channel so many years ago, to see what you have accomplished gives me hope for my own family
?
absolutely! I have worked with LiFePO4 cells for past 4 years now esp in custom built battries for car and charging to 100% and discharging mostly to 10-15% has healthier cells than say charging to 100% and discharging only to 50% and recharging again. (these cells are swelling or imbalancing often) So, my conclusion is cycle as much as you can everytime for better results. I also have
3.5 years old 280Ah cells in storage mode (40%) which I cycle every 6 months or so and their capacity is still similar about 0.5-1Ah difference (aging probably) so i can verify what you said this from my experience.
Could you please explain your 6 month cycling procedure for the batteries in storage. Do you charge them up from 40% to 100% first, discharge them to 10-15%, then bring them back up to 40%?
What’s your best charge max voltage from your experience?
@@carll5742I charge to 3.65v and discharge to 2.5v,, so i know the capacity, mark it and charge again to 40%...
For max voltage I have set it to 3.45v in mine. and in 48v all of them are above 3.42v at 100%. I do a slow charge so 3.45v is like 99.9%. I can set this to 3.65v but not much difference is there and I set that 3.45 because I didnt know things in the beginning and since its like already 100%I havent changed the settings in the bms.
@@videostar555how do you balance them if the max voltage is the same balancing starting voltage?
@esmailalkassir1565 i do not.. there has been no need for it yet.
This kind of video is why im subscribed, no bs, real tests.
Hey brother, great content as always. One thing to keep in mind and not get frustrated about is that your TH-cam audience is constantly growing. You've got a lot of us faithful viewers but you're constantly getting new people who only joined recently etc and don't watch old content, so it feels like you're covering the same ground over and over but you're actually covering the same ground with different people. Keep up the good work!
And some people just like fucking with him hahaha😂🎉
also some people get stuck on what they thought was true and don't want to let that go. they see advice about lithium batteries and they think that applies to all batteries with lithium in the name.
very similar to how when lithium batteries first came out, people would apply advice that was given about lead acid batteries to lithium batteries. it took a while and a lot of effort by various manufacturers to get people doing the 80/20 thing for their cell phones. now that most people do that, new phones do it automatically and show 100% when it's actually 80%, people don't realize it's doing that and are still doing 80/20 manually based off of what the screen says, so in reality they're actually only charging their phone to 64% 😂
I’m off grid now, will give me the confidence to do it. Love this guy!
I would just like to say that everything I have learned about solar has come from your channel if not for your knowledge I would have never felt confident enough to even think about putting together a solar system, you are literally the reason that I don't have a power bill today. Thank you so much for your effort and your channel because the information that I have learned from you has been life-changing for my family, we are very low income family and frankly without the stimulus checks that we got a couple years ago I would never have been able to obtain the system that I have put together. That being said we are thankful for what we have and I appreciate all the knowledge that I have obtained from your Channel thank you so much will
New to solar. Love this channel. Will is extraordinary. Master of his craft.
true.
The concept of batteries and how they work is still new to many people even in the electrical world
Hey will, always enjoy ur videos very intelligent person I admired u.💯
Picking up 30 kWh tomorrow for my DIY solar storage. Thanks for the great content.
I use a delta pro ultra with 2 batteries 12kwh connected to a transfer switch powering my home 24/7 when the sun goes down it's at 100% and when I wake up around sunrise they usually are at 30-20% Thanks for the video more information is always appreciated.
Will, I am very thankful for your studies and videos. I am not nearly the expert that you are because I don't have the resources that you do in studying LiFePo4 cells and determining what will work in my system. The work you put into this and your knowledge are invaluable to me. Thanks again for your videos, and the time you've spent collecting data! You have helped me tremendously! You are the reason I have a successful system!
Still running on Tesla modules since your video in the trailer ages ago. Like you mentioned with your car, different chemistry / different protocol. Inverter and smart shunt programs keep us in the safe zone. Love your work. 🙏🏼
Will best rant I've heard in awhile we put ours together finally 22oo solar that outdoor rated 300lb stand alone you showed and a 3000 watt eg4 run straight to a 30 amp RV plug waiting to finish building the house for future innovation
An army friend once told me when teaching:
1-“Tell the them what you want to tell them”
2-“Tell them what you are going to tell them”
3-“Tell them”
4-“Tell them what you told them”
lol. So true.
Yeah.
We had once a politician who said it plain.
People are stupid.
And obviously, with so much knowledge, nobody can learn everything.
And so, everybody will be ignorant in everything else outside of personal area of expertise.
No problem, when you do not need that knowledge.
But when you need, just learn and all is fine.
Anyway, the problem is that people forgot to listen.
It is an actual epidemic.
People will not fucking listen.
People will not listen even when they come to you asking.
They always interrupt.
They always need to counter you with something.
When explaining something, is like trying to stick two powerful magnets on the similar polarization side.
It seems that is working and suddenly it just slides away.
We are doomed.
Idiocracy will be our Armageddon:(
This is awful in TH-cam videos. Lol.
5-"Ask them to repeat what you just told them", works best in the conversations where the other party just wait for their turn to talk and doesn't answer questions, etc.
@@pavel9652 Just wait?
Where are the people who do that?
I see mainly interrupting, and speaking over. Counter with nonsense.
@@ehombane You would be surprised how many people would claim they answered the question, when they are answering some other question they made up in order to deflect, and aren't able to repeat the original one. It usually observe it in the conversations about religion, and the other side tip dance around the difficult questions.
Who in there right mind would dare to second guess Mr. Prowse? Your advice is so rational to say the least.
"Who in their right mind..."
I'm sorry. What does "in their right mind" have to do with "people on the Internet"?
@@charleshill7184it's called a "figure of speach" not to be taken literally. Perhaps English is not your first language.
His hat is on backwards.
@lawrencedavidson6195 more specifically, it is called an idiom. And my response is called a joke, though is really more of a wry observation on the intellect of the average TH-cam commenter.
@@charleshill7184sorry bro, your joke flew over my head😂
Your frustration is clear! Thanks again for another good vid. Your point about why spend time and money building a system if you're not going to use its capacity is a good one. I've been thinking about solar battery "backup" for critical loads during rare times that we have grid outages, but there's really no reason I shouldn't design my system to be tied in for those specific loads etc while the grid is up, be able to fail back to the grid if I need to service the system, and still be available for backup power.
Wise advice from Will. His first hand experience plus grasp of the latest scientific literature is distilled into clear simple advice. It will be quite a job to educate the entire world population about batteries and solar systems, so I hope he doesn't get frustrated with those that still don't understand. Just like in school, there always be some students that never get it and drop out.
I also suffered from 100% charge cycling derangement syndrome for awhile and came to the same conclusion, the batteries were purchased to be used. They now get a 2.5hr Top Up/Balance Float every day and are full and ready by 4:00pm which coincidentally is when Rolling Blackouts and Power Emergencies are the most likely to start.
For some reason, I simply cannot retain this technical information. When it comes time to do my build I am hoping you will offer a series of instructional videos that boil it all down into a concise lecture. Perhaps you already have. I will need it. I do consider you an expert and have been paying attention for several years. Thanks for your professionalism.
Good points. But wanted to add that on some BMS units, you can adjust the voltage at where they balance.
You can adjust the voltage they balance at, correct. But you are most assuredly missing the point Will is emphasizing. Balancing below 95% state of charge is counterproductive due to the flat discharge curve of LFP. Two cells can be at identical voltage and be at very different states of charge.
your channel is the most trusted 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
yup, totally agree. my cells are never in balance because the solar and usage is always cycling between 30 and 80 percent. To get them balanced, I have to initiate a grid charge. In fact, a call to Signature Solar suggested it.
30 to 80 with perhaps monthly to 100% to top balance is probably the very best way to treat the cells. With LFP it's highly likely with such a use case the cells would age out or the BMS would die before you'd ever cycle degrade them below 80% life.
We have free-at-night electricity presently so it’s easy to top off the battery 8pm to 6am. When the battery BMS says “no ,thanks “I assume it has top balanced the cells.
Keep up the good work, dont get discouraged from comments that drag you down!
Great clearly defined information as always. Thanks Will
It depends on the BMS. Many won’t balance until they reach 3.5V . Others can be set lower through software. 3.4V is good voltage to keep cells from degrading.
This video was the highlight of my evening. You have taught me well over the past few years and everything you say agrees with other literature I have read. I made a sizable investment in a 62kW/h battery system supplying energy to a pair of Schneider XW 6848 inverters. It has been a huge learning curve for me but you, David Poz, Everyday Dave, and a few other great TH-camrs have really helped me through my project. Thank you for your excellent content.
Crazy how now that 62kwh system can be had for $5k.
My system is only used for backup power when needed. Power is off at all other times to the system. I try to massage my batteries every couple of months. (I run them through a charge, discharge, then charge back up again). They always naturally settle around 53v.
Everyone's system is different but keep in mind... Voltage is only 1 part of being 100% charged.
Make sure you are at 100% absorption! E+I, otherwise they are NOT fully charged
I have a 15w 12V solar panel charging a 10 pack of 1.2V rechargeable AA batteries, all factory original by SolarGoesGreen that is now at least 8 years old. These little batteries can hold upto 83% capacity max, but it is more than enough for 12V LED lights inside two sheds. The system was getting tossed, so I saved it and been using it for the last 3 years with 1% capacity degradation during this time. Old panels and batteries are worth saving!!!
Always great info with Will
I enjoyed the video as always.
There is so much "expert" advice out there it's funny. Your videos are always verifiable, and we appreciate that.
Some people just want they're batteries to be as unbalanced as they are. Don't sweat the morons, most people today have more money than sense, but some of us really appreciate what you do and value your thoughts on the matter so keep doing what you do!
I'm off-grid and have 30KwH of storage. I hold my batteries at 100% for 3 hours every day during the summer when I need electricity for A/C and during the winter it is about every two days.During the summer my batteries get down to about 75% by morning and winter around 80%.
all i can say is thanks, like many I was under the impression that lifepo4 was behaving like other cell type but it make sense to look at what it is and using it properly!
Absolutely the best informative channel ever! Been following you for years ….only wish that you would consider adding the smaller
Portable solar generator reviews again…as you know , they’ve come a long way now and we need your reviews help the less experienced consumers make the best choices!! Really appreciate your time and efforts!!
That’s what Will was building when I started watching his videos. It became obvious that the good ones like the Delta Pro are logical only for their portability. You can DIY a much better and less expensive portable unit with a 5 kilowatt hour server rack battery and an all in one inverter. If you want the bells and whistles,just buy add - on 12 v or usb chargers just like you do at home. Do you take your phone charger everywhere you go?
I just installed a Siekon 100 amp-hour battery I bought through Will's link. So far, it's looking really good! I live in a travel trailer and am installing a 12-VDC system for all of the usual stuff, plus a 48-VDC system with inverter for all of the 120-VAC things. Will's videos are super helpful.
Right on the money, keep ‘Em coming. Thanks Will. 👍 That’s pretty much what I do with my home’s LFP batteries.
P.S. My 2019 Model3P is typically only charged to 65%, especially in Summer, unless I need more- which is pretty rare. It’s NEVER been above 95%, even for a big trip, which retains some regen.
So it’s now over 5 years old, and my degradation is really very minimal, something like 6.5% or so, and no significant change in the last few years.
These batteries will last a VERY long time with just a little bit of care.
We live in an RV in the southwest with 500w of panels and a 100 ah battery. Usually at 100% before lunch. We use it and it's back up the next day. We don't keep track of discharge. It takes no effort and we barely think about it. If not discharging enough reduces battery life it's fine. I'll pay a bit more long term to not think about it
Will I’ve got the EG4 Pro / 18K PV, outdoor battery, it’s set up to run the house along with a solar array. My PGE highest price tier starts at 4:00 pm and runs until 9:00 pm. I’ve got it set to charge to 100% and deplete down to 10%. (Signature Solar recommendation) Sometimes the battery is at about 50% right at 4:00. I could quick charge it before the high tier or I can let it deplete before sunrise and run the house off of the grid during early AM hours. Based on this video, running all the way down before charging the next day will keep the cells balanced and add life to the battery. My initial thought when I first started this venture was to stay off PGE at all costs. Thank you for this video, I have a different view now. 👍
Both the last & this video explains everything very well Will but there is ONE key detail not stated in any way. WHAT VOLTAGES are you calling 0% - 50% - 100% SOC
0%=3.000, (50%=3.200) & 100%=3.400 (Where 3.200 = Stated Nominal by Manufacturers.)
- OR -
0%=2.500. 50%=3.075 & 100%=3.650
The actual Termperature Ranges should be mentioned as well (I know, repeating endlessly the same over & over). Such as Optimal Preffered Temp is 25C/77F and optimal working temp range is 15C-35C 59F-95F
Last point, you covered the Cycling Process and the differences between EV and ESS charging & the associated stresses. Great that is REALLY Important to drive home. People still have extensive difficulties understand the whole Full / Partial Charge cycles and how that works. A Proper ESS system as you know very very rarely will ever run a full charge cycle, if properly built, it should really only need a 1/3rd Charge Cycle per day (assuming the system has 3 days of energy storage). * This of course will vary according to the Installed Energy Storage Capacity as many people do have more than 3 Days reserve on hand.
Solve the overall Confusion by stating actual Voltages & Temps etc for the Specific Chemistry which will address the vast majority of the ongoing debates of the numerous "Opinions" that everyone posits.
How would you want your Heart Surgeon Taught ? With only partial details and letting him figure it out along the way, or with full & proper detailed information & knowledge ?
This video did a good job explaining the logic. The BMS balancing is a very good point
The best man for lithium and related info'. I'm also guilty of checking my lithium gear every day but then I live on a ycht in the tropics and have to walk past the meters many times a day. So listen to the man newbies - he won't lead you wrong
Greetings from Jamaica.
@@lawrencedavidson6195 Greetings back from Grenada
Great video. The crappy thing is that when you have closed loop communication with your batteries, the manufacturer won't let their batteries be discharged to zero. Some won't let you get below 20%... 10% with eg4 batteries when communication is enabled.
Well said. I religiously charge all of my lifepo4 to 100%. I literally just capacity tested my DIY 272ah trolling motor battery tonight. After 4 years of hard use it still has near 100% capacity. Specifically 99% at 11.87v. It would have easily got to 100 if I discharged to 2.5v per cell
Very helpful discussion. I admire the that you’ve taken this opportunity to help clarify this. Your content always gives me the right level of confidence. When our time arrives when we switch our focus from heat pumps to solar…my bother and I, will be (and are) really glad for all this practical knowledge you give us.
Much appreciated.
thank you. I will make sure to take your advice coz I'm buying my first portable power station.
Got it. The last video did not seem to deliniate to well between lithium, lithium hybrd chemistry, and lifePo4 solar and storage. Maybe I am just thick. That being said, this explanation makes it crystal clear. I have a 5,120 watt portable solar system I use for power outages and hurricanes. I recently charged it to 100% and have left it there for several days now. Tomorrow I will start a rundown on it until around 50%. Thanks for the great info.
Thank you for helping us understand this new technology. 😊
This is TH-cam, so the comments *will* have kooks, contrarians, and other "experts" muddying the waters. The truth does not need defending, but it sometimes does need explaining. That's what you do so well. Keep at it.
For most standard solar setups; IE some EG4 server rack batteries; what is your recommendation on amount of time at 100% to balance? 30min? Hours? And…. Minimum once a week? Once a month?
Asking because obviously if you can output to grid and get $$$ back; extra power should take that route. But if you can’t top off at 100 to balance; how often should you “force” a balance with an either grid or generator? 👍
Will... I'd never think you made a mistake. But I'm new to all this & what's obvious to you is not to me, so I ask questions to clarify. And there's so many others out there that contradict you, some being technical support folks, it gets confusing for us newbies. Try & be patient with us dummies.
My only issue with discharging to 0 is that if you do this regularly and then a storm hits and you lose grid power, you've just pooched your system because it's been depleted when you need it most. Same thing applies to off grid, Murphy's Law states that you will have no sunshine for 5 days immediately after discharging your system to 0.
Exactly! Need to stay charged. If you are hitting zero, need more panels and batteries. But if you need the power and only cycling to 20%, no reason not to go to zero. Use every bit you can
And that's where the generator comes in....
Personally I charge to 14v (3.5V/cell) the reason being that my solar charges at a relatively low C rate and so 14v is pretty nearly 100% and it allows any high cell to go higher which increases the balance current on a resistive balancer and so speeds the balance operation for the high cell particularly if the balancer can still function when not charging. I set the balancer cut in at 3.4v/cell which is just at the bottom of the upper ‘knee’ this seems to have worked well. I also have packs with active balancers that I also set to start at 3.4v as any lower as I have found any lower can actually be counter productive. I actually don’t recommend going to zero, the reason being some usable reserve is good and also one doesn’t want the risk of leaving in zero state of charge as then self discharge can push them lower. I feel that running close to zero is bad management and I do think it is good to have that reserve. The JK-BMS even has provision for an ‘emergency’ and it’s nice to have some capacity to make that available safely. I also run hybrid which puts certain constraints on the high and low level cutoffs in order to enable use of charge sources without a lithium profile. As well as having a redundant system.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge Will. I love watching your channel because I know whatever you teach is absolute facts.
I like your video, thank you for makeing it and I believe what you're saying. What I'd like to know is there a different in which volt setting I should use. I believe the battery instructions state 100% ( is 27.2V, yet it also says 100% ( is 29.2V So, which is the setting should I use on a 24V LiFePo4 battery system. Thanks again for all your informative video!
I'm new to all this solar stuff, and I'm doing my research. Your channel has become my go to for accurate info. My situation is a bit different. I'm setting up a small, portable system to keep in my Jeep for camping and trail side repairs. I will be running a 100ah lifepo4 battery. Never more than 2. Batteries will be stored for long periods, mostly in the garage in winter. Temp no lower than 45 f. Right now I have yet to order my battery, but I have a couple of 12ah lifepo4 batteries I've been experimenting with. So7nds like you're saying a 100% charge before storage won't do any real harm, but dropping to as low as 50% is probably better. Anyway, I like what you said about not stressing about it, because once I get everything set up with my controller (looks like a victron energy smartsolar 100/30). I plan on making sure storage voltage is OK, checking charging when I set it up, and not worrying otherwise. 1 have 2 160w fold up panels I will be using, which should be plenty, ( probably overkill),even on cloudy days. If I end up with 2 batteries, I'll probably go to 24v for the controller, and to help with my 1000w inverter and power tools. Anyway, thanks for the great info.
That's exactly what i tell ppl since yrs - and i absolutely understand why you release this video ;-)
A small side fact: It is not "the one ppl" that doesn't want to learn....there are always new beginners...beginning to learn ;-)
Will, You were crystal clear, your reasoning was crystal clear. I think you are wasting your breath by going over this again. Anyone who either didn't understand the first time around, or simply thinks they know better than you is not likely to benefit from your continued effort at education. Hat's off to you for your persistence though.
I completely agree not sure why people pay for solar power and then don't use it. I am not interested in throwing my power stations in the garage.
Battery longevity begins at the factory:
In a study published today in Joule, researchers at the SLAC-Stanford Battery Center report that giving batteries this first charge at unusually high currents increased their average lifespan by 50% while decreasing the initial charging time from 10 hours to just 20 minutes.
Thanks Will for the Honesty 😉❤ Most People don't use there System everyday so they are grasping at Straws to know the Best they can do with the Money they have Spent.... For Example, people think of a Solar power Station as a Generator that gets used once in a blue Moon....:)❤
Will, Please do a teardown of the new Bluetti Elite 200v2. It has a huge inverter (2600w), can supposedly handle a 5200 watt surge for a few seconds and another YT tester found it to have 96 percent of rated capacity. No one else has torn it down and the other YT channel noted that it seems like the BMS is improved. Also, it is much more compact than previous 2kw models, so they are using different batteries compared to everything else. Thanks for your excellent channel, forum and product page. You information is extremely valuable. Encouraging people to note any problems or make suggestions in the forums is also a great way to empower the community and give constructive feedback to reputable, responsive companies like Bluetti and Litime.
I remember some relatives changed out their solar panels, idk if he said they where 20 or 25 years old they did deliver to little voltage after all them years, hanging outside in pretty harsh Scandinavian climate.
Will i have to say, the more i watch your videos the more confident im becoming setting up a solar system in the future at the old house, gonna start slow with being able to charge phones and a 12/24v fridge, getting expensive changing the propane (a 10kg flask is 35$ if you change in your old canister!!!!!!!!!) so if we halven the propane and never have to use the generator again a smaller solar system will pay itself off pretty fast.
I have some solar set up as parallel to the utility. I run freezers and my internet gear full time on the solar. When we have lots of sun, I run a dehumidifier in my basement. The SOK batteries are in my basement, which stays at 60F to 72F degrees. The batteries report anywhere from 119 to 126 cycles, and the system has been running constantly for 18 months. With the dehumidifier, I regularly cycle between 100% and 75% over a day and the lowest I have ever had the batteries was about 38%, if memory serves. I use Solar Assistant to keep an eye on things, and the data jibes with what I see on the packs and inverter.
Many thanks to Will for the info. I started the solar journey after a video he made just showed up on my TH-cam feed a couple of years ago. There is no better and trusted source of information on solar and the pluses/minuses and configuration/setup.
I don't set my cutoff no lower than 15% because my soc meter goes out of sync.(eg4) I've had it shut off on me at 10%. I'm not too worried about it, I think I'll get 10 years no problem if not 20. I do top and lower balance when I get long gloomy days in the winter. In the summer, it runs non-stop. Right now it fully charged and is in power save mode. I'll probably switch back off grid in the morning to rest the batteries at full charge. I think our results are to be announced through further experience.
Thank you Will :)
We have learned a ton of knowledge from you videos.
We try to keep our main system 15,000wh topped up to 100% at least once or twice per week to balance the cells.
P.S. Just wanted to say thank you again for the education :)
P.P.S. AWESOME CHANNEL !!!!!
Yes!! What he said!! Thank you, Will!! 😊
After setting everything up properly, I worry more about the equipment AROUND my whole system rather than the cells themselves. It usually fails first, and a failure on your gear may definitely mess up your cells. Awesome video as always.
Am an electrical technician with my own solar system, with a 30kw battery. I agree with you. When you are right, you're right. Keep it up. My system goes up to 100 daily, but it goes down to below 40 percent, average during the night, before the sun comes up. Not that big...but it is perfect in my world. From South Africa. (Place where Elon Musk grew up....)😉
No chance you would want him back would you? (asking for a friend)
I purchased the BLUETTI Ac200max cause of your content on the unit for two years now I been using it for running everything in my room unit goes down to like 40 percent by 1 pm is charged with 5 180 watt panels I don’t do anything just let it do it’s thing does this video goes for power station like the BLUETTI or for DIY units only..Thanks great video 🔥🔥
I really appreciate your videos. When I first bought my SOK batteries I was so worried id ruin them by not charging them correctly with my solar. But all I did was set the voltages where they needed to be per your videos and the manufacturer and I havent had any issues. They work! I was even worried about going below 20 percent! But not anymore!
Been running cheap amazon batteries full time. I am completely off grid. Paid for 300 ah at 24 volt 2 years ago. Still charges above rated capacity. I get 317 ah. I charge to 100 percent and drain to zero very often as I run my a/c and gam8ng computer off it.
Assuming ten thousand cycles for the batteries, I bought above average batteries, anticipating ten to fifteen years. Assuming battery technology does not improve beyond what it is today, these will last me until I am 90. When I can get batteries which are a 50% improvement over what I have now, I will replace my system, and my kids can figure out what to do with them in the future. Kinda like buying a computer: wait six months, double the speed, quadruple the capacity, lower the price, you never buy a computer. Simply buy the best you can afford with an eye for expansion, don't worry yourself about "did I do the best I could", and listen to Will for good info.
You made perfect sense. Thanks will!
This is awesome! Called it like he saw it! Savage and love it!
Great clarification. I have too many customers asking me this question, and many customers come to me because they have problems after setting the charge cut-off SOC to 95% or 80%. It may be the fear of cycle life brought by the lead-acid battery era. Many people are worried that setting it to 100% SOC will reduce the battery cycle life. Most manufacturers' batteries have a cycle life of more than 6,000 times. Assuming that they are charged and discharged once a day, there are 16 years. In fact, the cycle life will be better than this. In addition to the balancing problem you mentioned, the SOC calibration function of the BMS can only be activated when it is fully charged.
You need to do a video like this going over tesla batteries.
That's exactly how it is. Greatings from Germany
You are correct . I first started watching you in the camper. Most people are afraid because of lithium battery fires a few years ago , the chemistry of lipo4 is different and safe, they should be treated according to its use .Some people confuse them with lithium that is dangerous to keep at top charge.
Teaching is difficult, :-)
🇨🇦YOU ARE PREACHING TO THE CHOIR,,WE UNDERSTAND,,,THERE IS JUST SOME PEOPLE THAT WILL NEVER LISTEN OR JUST WANT TO CAUSE YOU AGGRAVATION,,,THANK YOU FOR THE GREAT INFORMATION
Lots of people have not see all his videos, so they will ask questions that were already answered in previous videos.
We love our system, and it's doing amazingly well. Unless we have an extended period of snow, it will last 3 to 4 days with a full charge. And we'll let it drop down to 2% or so before we actually fire up the generator for a bit. This winter, we're hoping to avoid even running the generator if possible after we just added a string of 8 more 540 Watt bifacials to our array. (Found a fella selling them for $40 each as they had some minor cracks that we sealed with silicone. Could NOT pass up that deal!). Always look forward to some Will Prowse "school". Keep it up professor.
Use well matched cells, bring them up to 95%+ regularly so that the required balancing current is low and the balancing done by a typical BMS is fine. The only need for a high current balancer is if you have mismatched cells since you have to contain cell voltage at much higher currents. It's been entertaining seeing the community slosh back and forth and disputes rage about how to care for lifepo4 over the years but all the time I've just been doing this based on the original charge profile of my Victron MPPT chargers on the basis of "If it's good enough for Victron, it's good enough for me".
First time seeing you and appreciate the clear and concise info. Subbed.
For my sailboat which is on shore power 24/7 i kept the end voltage at 3.46V and start active balancing at 3.43V. Due to curve is flat until 3.4V thats the first safe place to detect 95% SOC
Simple way I found to explain it. Think of each cell as being its own battery. If one of them is not ever getting fully charged then it's not going to last as long.
Another great video. I have a question. My inverter has adjustment for Float V, Absorption V, Equalization V, and Shut down %. What do I adjust to allow it to charge to 100%? when set to the specs on the battery it will only charge to 69% according to the inverter.
Great video ty Will lhelps alot for me as im a prepper so I don't use solar all the time lol never seen you this discombobulated but I don't blame you I've watched you for years and everything you said is correct
Will, I co-founded a $1bn publicly traded EV battery company. You’re absolutely correct.
hows the company doing now?
I never thought to charge my main off-grid system with my secondary portable system. I’ll try it! Maybe I can run the 450 watt AC without worrying it will drain the batteries overnight.
I think some people trust in the “education system” and will take the advice of a college professor with a PHD at the drop of a hat but will question a young man on TH-cam with his hat turned backwards. Just keep up the great work Will, don’t let the nay sayers change who you are. The rest of us trust your advice like it came from our own mother…
No matter what you do or say they will keep their blinders on. Great video!
Thanks for what you do you're a great resource and many of my customers mention you
Clear as can be. Just like your other videos on the subject. But maybe switch to decaf? 😂
Never tried coffee before haha but yeah I need to calm down. Way too much energy
Thanks will. I have mine set to charge to 100 and its great.
Not to mention in 20 years the technology is going to be unimaginable. Use what you've got and upgrade in 20 years to Dilithium Crystals.
Not sure about dilithium crystals. Scotty was always having problems with them…
in 20 years we might be back to caves
@@D9ID9I I’m already ahead of the curve. I live in a cave in Spain!