I have used novaride on my Ultegra and found the shifting not as snappy as the stock pulley. Also, the drivetrain became noisier which was a put off. It did feel smoother although that may be a placebo effect. I instantly went back to the stock pulley. Sometimes the cons of fitting an aftermarket product to the drivetrain may outweigh the benefits. Sharing my two cents worth.
Most people won’t pony up this kind of money for ceramic components. And they don’t really need to. We know Quality is not linear with price. I paid the price and it opened my eyes up to “ceramic specialness”. For me the ride quality is absolutely sublime/perceptible when combined with bottom bracket and hub bearings. I went with CermicSpeed OS Pulleys and Bottom bracket. Chris King ceramic hubs on my Moots, Red AXS 2X, Enve 3.4. I buy the best gear for me and extrapolate and expect the best in performance. I feel without question I got it. Life’s short. That’s all that matters to me. You do what’s best for you. Ride safe and ride often. Peace.
Think of what matter most, it's the reduced chain articulation. Tripeak has 12t top, 14t lower pulley which cost less than $100. Those fit into original Shimano cage and don't degrade the shifting quality.
Hmm... with larger pulley wheels the chain bends less but there are more chain links to bend so I wonder if this makes a difference. Less spining resistance in bearings can result in improved drive train efficiency if this can be sustained in bad weather conditions (bearings' sealings?).
That's completely flawed logic. A chain is a closed loop. All of the link have to bend for a complete revolution. Unless of course you chain is infintely long.
It's not so much the number of chain links, but the rate or frequency of chain links passing through the rear derailleur, that directly drives the power losses. For example, if you had the bottom bracket 10 meters away from the freehub, and say a 20-ish meter long chain, then in a given gear and at a given cadence, you will still have exactly the same number of links entering and leaving each pulley wheel every second. Now, it could be argued that the longer, heavier lower run of chain will have more tension on it as it runs through the rear derailleur, thus increasing friction forces. But this effect is pretty minor when the chain is made only a few links longer, as in the case of the OSPW cages.
I changed out my 11T 105 bottom RD pulley with a cheap 13T sealed NTN bearing pulley and found the drivetrain to be slightly smoother right away. 105 pulley is spun on bushing. Maybe that is why it felt slightly better. With Ultegra and Dura-ace RD, I'm not sure if you can feel any difference whatsoever. So for a 10 dollar ( about 4 for the pulley, 6 for the bearing ) upgrade, worth every penny IMHO. But if i had to pay >100 dollars for it, definitely not worth it.
They don’t work, larger wheels means more Chain to wheel contact with increases friction and at speeds over 35kph, more drag due to aerodynamic actually makes you slower. Do don’t waste your money!!!!!!!!
That´s just wrong. www.velonews.com/gear/tech-wearables/technical-faq-calculating-chain-tension/ Also, as I said there is no more aerodynamic drag. Trust me, if there was, I would know about it, but apart pub experts´ opinions there is no evidence for that.
@@ronykuba The people that carry out the friction tests, have a Vested interest due to the fact they are connected to ceramic speed, watch this video this is independent th-cam.com/video/Oj-N8oMPBj8/w-d-xo.html
@@niceracleous9999 nor Aerocoach, nor Dr. Fonda who I'm consulting with, make or sell any pulley systems. Friction facts was also fully independent at the time when they published their datasets. Same for ZFC, all agreeing that larger radii = less friction. You can't see WT TT or hour records ridden on 46t chainrings, can you? That video of yours is pub ammo at best.
@@ronykuba Aerocoach who said riding in Velodrome is pretty much the same as in riding outside? :S And whch Dr. Fonda? What did he get his Doctors in? Physics, Applied Math, or engineering?
@@tianchugan8385 yes it is, don't you think that's why every single pro road cycling team or triathlete would test their setup in a velodrome? And don't even start with the bullshit that Hambini brainwashed you with. Dr. Fonda, you know, just the dummy who's setting up Pogacars bikes and optimises drivetrains for 8 WT teams, what would he know.
You should actually test each one versus regular pulleys. You have them all and are a mechanic, so changing between them should be easy. Dual recordings with power pedals and a smart trainer, keeping everything else on the bike the same.
Me, I went with Kogel 12/14 teeth pulley wheels on my Strada. I was thinking about getting a Kolossus but in the end I decided to wait with that. On the Exploro I haveKogel standard size pulley wheels in red, just for the bling. They have cross seals so they are pretty sturdy.
for an ordinary mortal like me, perhaps i'd prefer to instead switch to 11t ceramic bearing guide and tension pulleys for my DA9000 .. and see if there really is a lot of difference ..
ceramicspeed etc pulley system is a total waste of money. Just read what Pau Lew has to say about Ceramic Bearings in cycling wheels etc , if anyone knows, he certainly does!
@@ronykuba it's industry smoke and mirrors I'm afraid. Paul Lew is probably one of the most respect wheel designers within the industry his work and accolades speak for themselves . Lew would not state such things without firm data. People are always willing to spend their money and quite happy to be blinded by industry BS !
@@ronykuba Didn't stop them winning everything it sight, except the classics. My answer is to ride a single speed, hardly any friction there and you can back spin the cranks like a full £1K -2K CS system. Might get CBear BB and NTN (?) high end steel jockey wheel upgrade when my new steel is ready.
I don’t understand stand why cassettes come with a 9,10,11 smallest cog then. Surely having a 15- whatever cassette and bigger rings is more efficient than forcing a chain round a 10t? Appreciate one wouldn’t spend much time in those cogs but still...
@@ronykuba agreed but i was just talking about efficiency. My point was more about one side of the industry saying bigger is better while the other goes smaller and smaller.
Most frames cannot accommodate a first position cog larger than 14, for one thing. I use a 14-25 and you need b screw to make that first cog work, theoretically decreasing shifting performance.
On a completely flat course with little to no wind, what do you think about converting your bike to single speed? You would still need a chain tensioner but the angle of the chain is barely altered so the frictional losses should be lower less than if the chain has to go through a rear derailleur. It should also be slightly more aerodynamic.
@@ronykuba without too much money, to begin with do you think the nova is correct? I have a friend who has been riding for 6 months with it and no problem, but what is your first opinion on it?
I have cbear pulley wheels in my dura ace deraillieur and a bb also from cbear. It works really good and price wise it's really ok 220e for bb and pulley wheels.
Steer clear of the cheap eBay offerings from China, my chain came off the pulleys and locked up RD throwing me off the bike. Suffered 7 broken ribs, broken collarbone and punctured lung.
The jockey wheel bearing have the fastest rotating speed of any bearing on a bicycle. Changing to a roller bearing jockey wheel has great merit. Changing to jockey wheels with a roller setup will produce the greatest results, with the differences between larger roller jockey wheels less so in comparison going from a plain bronze bush to roller. Ceramic speeds price of entry is outrageous, however a person can easily choose.
@@raphaeltiziani7476 as I said in the video, I have yet to see data to prove the aero loss, apart from the ideas of delusional pub warriors. The friction benefits are well proven on the other hand.
@@ronykuba yes they are. But please keep calm, Im not saying that it is bullshit. Just thinking about every factor. I also want scientific evidence for everything.
I think it is absolutely not relevant to ask if it is worth of money. 99% of amateurs will only need Shimano 105 and standard frame, cost around 3k USD. But we spend thousands for Sworks and other crap. If you got money, if you like it - buy it. Make urself happy. Have bike that you lije and will give you confidence. That is another 10%.
Non-over-priced pulleys?". . . They might look cool but in my experience they don't function very properly" Yeah-nah. Mine work great. But my wallet is indeed heavier. ;)
(1) I’m not sure that a larger pulley wheel saves any significant power. The angle that the chain goes through is the same, regardless of pulley size. I have not seen any convincing evidence/analysis to support the claim, have you? (2) Why does it matter about the material of the Jockey wheels? Plastic jockey wheels, work very well, don’t they!
Is it worth it? How much is 0.5 W worth... about the same as aero spokes... not much. Anybody who uses these look like an uninformed "all the gear no idear" or some kind of cycling poser.
Firstly, it’s more in the region of 1-1.5W, which is a lot for someone who’s racing and chasing every marginal gain. Secondly, I would first check who you are trying to call “all the gear no idea”, before making yourself look like a moron.
@@ronykuba You have no idea whether it's 0.5 W, 1.5 W, or 0 in some cases. Do you dispute that? If so, tell us how you have such a precise understanding when nobody else does.
Actually this oversized pulley's are just marketing crap. engineers of the drive train are not ignorant to design such pulley's on expensive groupsets. The reason why it doesn't need a ceramic bearing is because pulley's are meant to receive the chain. Going to the "TENSION ZONE" which is from your cogs to the crank. beyond that there's no load. If you have an engineering background then you will understand this very simple mechanics. OSPW's looks cool but not worth of an upgrade in performance.
@@ronykuba Like i said, engineers of the groupsets are not ignorant to design stock pulleys. "Articulation of chain" on OSPW's are useless upgrade not unless you want to look cool. If OSPW is meant to save you 1.8 watts - 2.4 watts for the articulation then know also that you have a penalty of drag because of its size. Not trying to hate OSPW because they actually look cool though.
The first advantage is that you are lighter because your wallet is less heavy
I have used novaride on my Ultegra and found the shifting not as snappy as the stock pulley. Also, the drivetrain became noisier which was a put off. It did feel smoother although that may be a placebo effect. I instantly went back to the stock pulley. Sometimes the cons of fitting an aftermarket product to the drivetrain may outweigh the benefits. Sharing my two cents worth.
aluminium pulley wheels are always going to be noisier
How odd is that I was just researching this yesterday. And then this video comes out today!
Most people won’t pony up this kind of money for ceramic components. And they don’t really need to. We know Quality is not linear with price. I paid the price and it opened my eyes up to “ceramic specialness”. For me the ride quality is absolutely sublime/perceptible when combined with bottom bracket and hub bearings. I went with CermicSpeed OS Pulleys and Bottom bracket. Chris King ceramic hubs on my Moots, Red AXS 2X, Enve 3.4. I buy the best gear for me and extrapolate and expect the best in performance. I feel without question I got it. Life’s short. That’s all that matters to me. You do what’s best for you. Ride safe and ride often. Peace.
Well said, thanks!
can you list the names of the 2 pullys you show here . the frence one , i can't find it online .
tnx
Ceramic Speed - danish; Kogel ceramic - USA ; Nova Ride - french
Thanks
Nova Ride, @nova2ride on instagram and novatoride.com you're welcome ahaha
Think of what matter most, it's the reduced chain articulation.
Tripeak has 12t top, 14t lower pulley which cost less than $100. Those fit into original Shimano cage and don't degrade the shifting quality.
True, the only gain is there.
Neither does, when set up correctly
They increase the derailleur capacity which is enough reason to use them if you need more capacity for some experiments with cranksets.
That’s not universally true, so I would be cautious with that statement
Yes any links and pricing on the two , with thanks Dan
Ceramic speed is over 500euros ; Kogel - 400euros ; Npova Ride - 200euros if I remember correctly.
@@mislevis Thanks, you'd need be RICH or RACE or the like, to bother, you just would if had the money tho wouldn't you
Check out Garbaruk
Hi Ronald, would you recommend this to just an average rider?
Hmm... with larger pulley wheels the chain bends less but there are more chain links to bend so I wonder if this makes a difference. Less spining resistance in bearings can result in improved drive train efficiency if this can be sustained in bad weather conditions (bearings' sealings?).
Does it matter if there is more or less chain?
More or less chain does not matter. Ceramic bearings does not matter.
That's completely flawed logic. A chain is a closed loop. All of the link have to bend for a complete revolution. Unless of course you chain is infintely long.
It's not so much the number of chain links, but the rate or frequency of chain links passing through the rear derailleur, that directly drives the power losses. For example, if you had the bottom bracket 10 meters away from the freehub, and say a 20-ish meter long chain, then in a given gear and at a given cadence, you will still have exactly the same number of links entering and leaving each pulley wheel every second.
Now, it could be argued that the longer, heavier lower run of chain will have more tension on it as it runs through the rear derailleur, thus increasing friction forces. But this effect is pretty minor when the chain is made only a few links longer, as in the case of the OSPW cages.
interesting video. With oversized pulley wheels, do you need to use a longer chain?
Yes you do
I changed out my 11T 105 bottom RD pulley with a cheap 13T sealed NTN bearing pulley and found the drivetrain to be slightly smoother right away. 105 pulley is spun on bushing. Maybe that is why it felt slightly better. With Ultegra and Dura-ace RD, I'm not sure if you can feel any difference whatsoever. So for a 10 dollar ( about 4 for the pulley, 6 for the bearing ) upgrade, worth every penny IMHO. But if i had to pay >100 dollars for it, definitely not worth it.
Hi, what was the name of the third option, the French brand, I didn't quite catch it. P
It's nova search up nova gc performance he did a review on it
They don’t work, larger wheels means more Chain to wheel contact with increases friction and at speeds over 35kph, more drag due to aerodynamic actually makes you slower. Do don’t waste your money!!!!!!!!
That´s just wrong. www.velonews.com/gear/tech-wearables/technical-faq-calculating-chain-tension/
Also, as I said there is no more aerodynamic drag. Trust me, if there was, I would know about it, but apart pub experts´ opinions there is no evidence for that.
@@ronykuba The people that carry out the friction tests, have a Vested interest due to the fact they are connected to ceramic speed, watch this video this is independent th-cam.com/video/Oj-N8oMPBj8/w-d-xo.html
@@niceracleous9999 nor Aerocoach, nor Dr. Fonda who I'm consulting with, make or sell any pulley systems. Friction facts was also fully independent at the time when they published their datasets. Same for ZFC, all agreeing that larger radii = less friction. You can't see WT TT or hour records ridden on 46t chainrings, can you? That video of yours is pub ammo at best.
@@ronykuba Aerocoach who said riding in Velodrome is pretty much the same as in riding outside? :S And whch Dr. Fonda? What did he get his Doctors in? Physics, Applied Math, or engineering?
@@tianchugan8385 yes it is, don't you think that's why every single pro road cycling team or triathlete would test their setup in a velodrome? And don't even start with the bullshit that Hambini brainwashed you with. Dr. Fonda, you know, just the dummy who's setting up Pogacars bikes and optimises drivetrains for 8 WT teams, what would he know.
Hi Ronald Kuba, nice video; please could you add the links for the 2nd and 3rd OSPW systems? Thanks,
I found, never mind. Thanks anyway - great video!
You should actually test each one versus regular pulleys. You have them all and are a mechanic, so changing between them should be easy. Dual recordings with power pedals and a smart trainer, keeping everything else on the bike the same.
You need much more sophisticated equipment to test things like these
How does it change the ride? I am a weekend rider, if I did spend the big money and buy one, how would change my overall ride?
Your ride would be shorter by a couple of seconds
What do you think of SLF Motion EVO OSPW? Looks pretty nice.
I like it too
I'm looking at this one too :)
But how do you replace the original one with the aftermarket one ?
May i know your thoughts on just changing to ceramic pulley wheels only instead of the while cage together? Will have any benefit?
The benefits are smaller, predictably
@@ronykuba your opinion, shall i change my ultegra RD to dura ace RD or use that cash to upgrade oversized pulleys ceramic?
@@ridzuan786 I would advice you to change the old one to dura ace rd. the shifting is much smooth with dura ace
You think they will clear a 42T cassette (long cage)? Thanks for the content!!
not the road versions for sure
Hi i want to ask if were did you get that noah oversize pulley? Thank you in advance my friend
I have one in stock
Did you sale it?
@@jovertorres2664 I still have a slightly used one
@@ronykuba can i have that one
Are your Dash saddles really that comfortable? As their weight is very low I assume the padding is a bit thin.
Padding does not define saddle comfort.
I don't use them anymore
Me, I went with Kogel 12/14 teeth pulley wheels on my Strada. I was thinking about getting a Kolossus but in the end I decided to wait with that. On the Exploro I haveKogel standard size pulley wheels in red, just for the bling. They have cross seals so they are pretty sturdy.
Nice!
what about the new absolute black ones with the futuristic hole?
Do I have to change a length of the chain to fit them ?
yes
What about the new aero one from Ceramic speed ;-)
As you might have guessed, it didn’t exist at the time of shooting this video 🙂
Can someone please type put the names of the last two he reviewed? cant catch the brand names.
Kogel, Nova
@@ronykuba appreciate that and your simple high quality content!
all for a power saving of 0.24watts?
for an ordinary mortal like me, perhaps i'd prefer to instead switch to 11t ceramic bearing guide and tension pulleys for my DA9000 .. and see if there really is a lot of difference ..
ceramicspeed etc pulley system is a total waste of money. Just read what Pau Lew has to say about Ceramic Bearings in cycling wheels etc , if anyone knows, he certainly does!
Thats true, gain here is
Uhm. How about getting some proper information and actual tests?
Who told you that, Hambini?
@@ronykuba it's industry smoke and mirrors I'm afraid. Paul Lew is probably one of the most respect wheel designers within the industry his work and accolades speak for themselves . Lew would not state such things without firm data. People are always willing to spend their money and quite happy to be blinded by industry BS !
@@nicensleazy1892 it's interesting that I never saw that kind of data, despite working with a number of experts consulting for WT teams
What do you think about KCNC ospw Ronald?
For me it falls into the "cheap" category
@@albr4 what bearing do you recommed to switch to?
why are team ineos not using them?
Because they're sponsored by Shimano
@@ronykuba Didn't stop them winning everything it sight, except the classics. My answer is to ride a single speed, hardly any friction there and you can back spin the cranks like a full £1K -2K CS system. Might get CBear BB and NTN (?) high end steel jockey wheel upgrade when my new steel is ready.
Waste of money but it looks good
hardly
hardly looks good
I don’t understand stand why cassettes come with a 9,10,11 smallest cog then. Surely having a 15- whatever cassette and bigger rings is more efficient than forcing a chain round a 10t? Appreciate one wouldn’t spend much time in those cogs but still...
The problem with that is that it would make for enormous cassettes if you wanted the same range
@@ronykuba agreed but i was just talking about efficiency. My point was more about one side of the industry saying bigger is better while the other goes smaller and smaller.
Most frames cannot accommodate a first position cog larger than 14, for one thing. I use a 14-25 and you need b screw to make that first cog work, theoretically decreasing shifting performance.
Why is it that SRAM, Shimano and Campagnolo have not made their derailleurs with large pulley wheels themselves?
It would be a problematic OEM fit, but they all have slightly larger pulleys now than before
On a completely flat course with little to no wind, what do you think about converting your bike to single speed? You would still need a chain tensioner but the angle of the chain is barely altered so the frictional losses should be lower less than if the chain has to go through a rear derailleur. It should also be slightly more aerodynamic.
well, that is an extremely narrow use case, but it could work theoretically
Nice video which is the best in your opinion
Thanks. I use CS for now.
@@ronykuba without too much money, to begin with do you think the nova is correct? I have a friend who has been riding for 6 months with it and no problem, but what is your first opinion on it?
the pulleys turn much better than the other 2 while it is half the price ??? how to explain it
@@TomOresLegend as I said in the video, considering the fragile nature of full ceramic bearings, that might or might not last.
@@ronykuba yes I see what you mean, with that spider web aspect, but it's still carbon no, it's solid ???
I have cbear pulley wheels in my dura ace deraillieur and a bb also from cbear. It works really good and price wise it's really ok 220e for bb and pulley wheels.
Sounds good!
Steer clear of the cheap eBay offerings from China, my chain came off the pulleys and locked up RD throwing me off the bike. Suffered 7 broken ribs, broken collarbone and punctured lung.
Hardly surprising
The jockey wheel bearing have the fastest rotating speed of any bearing on a bicycle. Changing to a roller bearing jockey wheel has great merit. Changing to jockey wheels with a roller setup will produce the greatest results, with the differences between larger roller jockey wheels less so in comparison going from a plain bronze bush to roller. Ceramic speeds price of entry is outrageous, however a person can easily choose.
true
Over priced products not as aero , you gain in one hand but you lose on the other hand do I stick to what I've got
Net you likely lose speed. Will be close to 0 though.
Except that's wrong.
@@ronykuba why? would make a bit sense.
@@raphaeltiziani7476 as I said in the video, I have yet to see data to prove the aero loss, apart from the ideas of delusional pub warriors. The friction benefits are well proven on the other hand.
@@ronykuba yes they are. But please keep calm, Im not saying that it is bullshit. Just thinking about every factor. I also want scientific evidence for everything.
Thank you. Very interesting and useful information
Cheers!
I think it is absolutely not relevant to ask if it is worth of money. 99% of amateurs will only need Shimano 105 and standard frame, cost around 3k USD. But we spend thousands for Sworks and other crap. If you got money, if you like it - buy it. Make urself happy. Have bike that you lije and will give you confidence. That is another 10%.
Good point
Ronald must be these OSPW companies' fave...a fanboy that will buy into any bullshit that marketing spits out.
Sure 🙃 you forgot to mention that the earth is flat and the moon landing was faked
SLF motion seem to make nice ones.
They're up next!
The problem i have with oversized pulley wheels is that the chain still bends by the same radian no matter what.
chains are linear in nature. The angle between the individual links won´t be the same.
Non-over-priced pulleys?". . . They might look cool but in my experience they don't function very properly"
Yeah-nah. Mine work great.
But my wallet is indeed heavier. ;)
Hmm?
(1) I’m not sure that a larger pulley wheel saves any significant power. The angle that the chain goes through is the same, regardless of pulley size. I have not seen any convincing evidence/analysis to support the claim, have you?
(2) Why does it matter about the material of the Jockey wheels? Plastic jockey wheels, work very well, don’t they!
(1) I am sure, and it is well proven
(2) Just because something works well, doesn´t mean something else can´t work better
I heard from a friend that SLF is better. You should get your hands on a set.
I will
No testing just off hand talk.
Is it worth it? How much is 0.5 W worth... about the same as aero spokes... not much. Anybody who uses these look like an uninformed "all the gear no idear" or some kind of cycling poser.
Firstly, it’s more in the region of 1-1.5W, which is a lot for someone who’s racing and chasing every marginal gain.
Secondly, I would first check who you are trying to call “all the gear no idea”, before making yourself look like a moron.
@@ronykuba You have no idea whether it's 0.5 W, 1.5 W, or 0 in some cases. Do you dispute that? If so, tell us how you have such a precise understanding when nobody else does.
@@user-cx2bk6pm2f there are drivetrain efficiency rigs that test that you know, and you can buy the test data that comes out.
Actually this oversized pulley's are just marketing crap. engineers of the drive train are not ignorant to design such pulley's on expensive groupsets. The reason why it doesn't need a ceramic bearing is because pulley's are meant to receive the chain. Going to the "TENSION ZONE" which is from your cogs to the crank. beyond that there's no load. If you have an engineering background then you will understand this very simple mechanics. OSPW's looks cool but not worth of an upgrade in performance.
If you have an engineering background, you would also know that oversized pulleys are about chain articulation, and has nothing to do with “load”.
@@ronykuba Like i said, engineers of the groupsets are not ignorant to design stock pulleys. "Articulation of chain" on OSPW's are useless upgrade not unless you want to look cool. If OSPW is meant to save you 1.8 watts - 2.4 watts for the articulation then know also that you have a penalty of drag because of its size. Not trying to hate OSPW because they actually look cool though.
@@lightofheaven134 no they’re not, that’s why they’re also increasing the sizes slowly but surely.