EDIT: The comments about a continuous academic decline are purely speculation (separate from the decline from covid, which is supported in the studies and anecdotally). We'll have to wait and see. What are your thoughts on college degrees? Did you get one (and was it worth it)? Are you considering getting one? Oddly enough, my most useful classes in terms of the actual subjects studied have been my math classes. I've used the electrical concepts from physics and various mathematical concepts that I wouldn't have bothered studying on my own. I really didn't get much out of my actual CS classes.
I am in my first year and I feel the exact opposite as you. I like the programming classes because they're most interesting and I'm good at it (compared to other students). I'm bearing with the math and physics, and while I sometimes find it interesting it's mostly a task which I can't see applications for
I agree a lot with this. I know most of the things the CS classes can teach me, but the math and physics classes are letting me make better games and other CS projects.
I am gonna be honest, for me it was not worth it. I got 2:1 which is no longer enough. Additionally i am a slow learner and the lecturee would often blitz through the lessons
I globally have a different path: drop school at 12 (because i was dirt poor, broken family and living in bad area where the school was just terrible), worked as a baker then chef, learn programming on the side (python, javascript, c#, and now godot) with any resources available, got back to university and got a degree (not related to programming), worked and get bored, then got serious about programming and started a youtube channel for making tutorial and small mobile game on the side, and making a living of it now (still with no education, but in my case i don't want to work for someone or for a company, i prefer be alone doing what i like). Thanks for sharing your journey! :)
where do you live? also what device did you use to code back then? omfg this must be interesting to hear from you since i stopped practicing how to code and then i thought i ran out of excuses anymore when i read this comment. (Actually my only excuse was that i dont have a pc to code efficiently)
@@lunarpacer2834 Hi! I grew up in the suburb of grenoble (in an area called Villeneuve), France in the 80s/90s, I started to code back in 1999 when i was 15 after I saved four month to buy my first computer (a potato pc) and got into programming with python because that was the only resource i was finding. I struggled a lot for years because i was finding no resources anywhere that was solving the problem i was meeting (youtube wasn't existing back then), so i was stopping / going back to it several times a years, while working as a baker to be able to just live. In 2016 I was living in Edinburgh, scotland, bought a pc that was good for that time but become a potato pc after, I got serious into programming and I have learned gamemaker studio, unity, then after an ssd accident i lost most of the project i was about to released which depressed me a lot, i restarted again but this time in an engine that was way easier to handle (godot), at that time it was the version 3 and in some month i've started to make game and it worked a bit more, and now i'm making tutorial, working on small game, my actual commercial steam game and making courses. In other words: the only good path is your own, so just find something you are interested programming and go for it everyday, no need to go for 6 hours straight, you make a list of thing you wanna do and you try to focus 1hour on it everyday. That's the cheat code :)
I am in a kinda similar situation (tho im still learning), I'm from Venezuela, and it's honestly impossible to attend college, I'm currently working full-time in an absolutely unrelated field whilst practicing code on my own, being a software engineer is my lifetime dream and goal, ever since I was a child, if only the situations i live in were a little different.
@@mubashirhussain3885 I guess he means he is able to motivate himself to constantly learn rather than needing an educational institution to pressure him
I got a software development job with an art degree. Aside from a Python class I took in my junior year, I learned everything else by myself. What really helped me was making my own games. I did almost everything, pygame, opengl with C, Unity, and now I work as an Unreal Developer. We do mostly simulations for underwater robots, and if I didn't have my coding knowledge from years of making games, I would have had no chance.
Oddly enough, I've heard that the companies that require degrees often just require "a degree". It usually doesn't matter what kind. Having an art degree and teaching yourself software on the side seems like a surprisingly viable path. It certainly helps to have the related degree, but I don't think that's usually the hard requirement.
Ofcourse how else would they sneak in their things they want you to accept aka brainwashing instead of self education where a human actually gains knowledge about the world and do more than nust earn money @quackzilla5971
As you get older and farther along in your career the degree will be worth it. There are so many tech jobs that you can't even apply for without CS or EE. There are promotions you won't be eligible for without a degree. As you age you're going to face a lot of discrimination. A lot of older developers I know ended up with the government or companies that mainly work with the government. Those jobs usually require a degree. Unless you are some sort of genius that can just avoid the HR because everyone wants you or you get lucky with a hit game or app the degree is going to pay off.
There are options (of an increasing number) that don't require degrees. The pay gap between them is closing over time as well. For people that have to make larger sacrifices to go to school, it may not be the right option. In my case, I was paid to go, which is why I was fine with it.
@@DaFluffyPotato thats a fair point. personally i think it also has to do with how sure you are with computer science. I myself am not exceedingly sure about cs so it would be better for me to take the cs degree which is extremely versatile, over a software engineering apprenticeship which basically forces me into cs
isnt it the opposite degree only mattered in entry level position. After u get several years of experience they don't care about urs degree but more about work experiences.
Thanks for sharing kid. This is Very helpful, im 36 in Florida self learning for a career path change. Nice to see younger people with propper work ethic and drive to better themselves.
Thanks for taking the time to put this video together. Covid made me a lot less confident in my previous career, and I have been eyeballing CS for about half a year now. Know python pretty well, dabbled in some Rust and Java too. This confirmed some suspicions I had, and answered questions as well. It is a dauntingly broad set of subjects that need to be learned, and then as you said. The looming threat of AGI. Keep grinding, and thank you once again for sharing your experience.
"homeschooled my whole life" AH.. thats why you were able to get things done at 12... most of us in public school spend so much time doing stupid busy work that by the time we finsih, we only have enough energy to veg out in front of a tv. def homeschooling my future kids.
stop complaining and making excuses. If you want to study programming, you can easily free up some time in your day. It's relatively easy compared to when you work 8-12 hours a day.
homeschooling has its advantage but you MUST at all costs force socialisation in the child. Force them to take clubs they enjoy and force them into situations where they need to handle bullying, or conflicts. They are also really important
As a homeschooler, I'm the latter. Worse than normal kids. Now that I'm out of school I've found that I can't do traditional school very well or regulate my time and self study. I feel stuck. Most of the people I know who homeschooled have also ended up like me. We have a server now and try and keep each other motivated, but all of my other friends have dropped out of college and work in minimum wage jobs cause its all they're able to do. I'm in college, but my grades are dropping and I don't know how I'll ever make it through the next 2 years of school. On top of that, I feel behind socially. I'm out of place and struggle to make and keep friends in University. Again, all of the homeschoolers I know feel this way too. His outcome from my perspective seems rare. Mind you, I also did dual enrollment, and my parents found lots of opportunities for socialization. Its just the fact that theres parts of public school that are impossible to replicate, as well as parts of public school that teach kids to function the way society wants thats difficult to get outside of school. Not to mentioned it has limited opportunities for me like trying to study abroad or go to university school in some countries.
@@dvxv4016nope maybe where you live,where i do its way eaaier to learn coding with a full time job where sometimes i work 14h/day,school was hell wity no free time and burnes brain let alone hhaving decent internet and any conputer related things
Interesting seeing the overlap here - I think the key is learning how to program and knowing how to work on stuff in your spare time (home-schooled or not). It does seem that even though a degree might not be financially worth it (even in the UK where student loans are much less serious), it is required if you wish to progress through the industry for now - you also passively take home some subtle skills that aren't often talked about while getting a degree (such as writing/communication). Great video - I agree with everything you said that I have experience to relate to :)
I think ultimately my CS degree was worth it. It really helped me get my foot in the door when it came to my first job, and even though I didn't absorb everything during the time, it helped me build a good foundation. I always say there are three types of knowledge: "what you know", "what you don't know you don't know" and "what you know you don't know". Having a degree really can really help you round out that third type. My only regret is not trying harder and taking more in. I was pretty young at the time and I feel I didn't get the most out of the time period as I could have. My knack for self-learning didnt come until much later in life.
I’m a rising senior in CS, I kind of don’t like programming but I like tech. It’s been hard to find internships and I think I am bound to graduate with none. I’m thinking of doing a masters in business or engineering because I’m worried it will be hard to find jobs in tech. What do you think?
@@erkiiiiiiiii617 I don't know your location, but I imagine finding a job should not be too difficult. If you have programmed a lot and still don't enjoy it then i'd say don't focus on it, cause life is just too short to do something you don't enjoy. Have you considered pivoting to ITOps, QA or DevOps? Big demand for devops these days and could be a good fit for your skillset.
Sadly I had the same self-learning experience. Thought college was supposed to be like high school and didn't focus on anything else rather than getting good grades and live life but it was my mistake and just realize it after looking for internships for the first time and that's when my self learning kick in and started learning on my own instead of way for my professor to give some lecture on it, rising Senior, feel my skills are meh but still grinding
I was homeschooled up until 8th grade then switched to a hybrid homeschool school thing. We’re changing to a college campus next year, and doing the dual-enrollment thing. So cool to know there’s people with similar interest and backgrounds, just on the other side of the country lol
Really interesting video! I love hearing your perspective on this. First, congratulations on graduating. I hope you have a great career now. Second, I've been working in the industry for about 7ish years now and I've worked with people with both degrees and not. Generally speaking everyone has the ability to pick up the skills but sometimes being able to talk about university projects have helped people I know gain a new role. Even when I recently interviewed, some companies were asking what grade I got at university (that being said I took that as a red flag for many of the companies) I'm not sure where I'm going with this comment...Have a great day!
Also, how is it we both live in Florida?! I have you to thank for the pygame tutorials and for LMMS and Gifcam, those have changed my life for the better!
I can't say too much about com sci but my degree was really useful in helping me network in my field. I really think that educators should put more emphasis on the importance of being able to network as being educated often doesn't cut it.
@DaFluffyPotato i didn't network and i couldn't get a job for a decade lmao. i tried applying for internships but i got rejected because i scored poorly in engineering courses. 😅
@@DaFluffyPotato Honestly, I'm considering going for a degree more for the socialization and networking aspect. (And also because I have zero experience in any kind of teamworking endeavors in CS.)
I'm currently in my first year of college in CS, and I have yet to learn from any classes more than I've learned on my own from the Internet, truthfully I decided to go to college just for the degree and the opportunities my uni provides for internships. Most people in my year share the same mentality, and frankly, I think more and more people attend university not to learn something, but to get that "important paper" (degree).
My cs program general requirements are 3 courses in each division. Div 1 is arts and humanities (music, english, language), Div 2 is Social Sciences (history, econ, political science), div 3 is math and lab sciences (filled by cs). I didnt specialize in my first year, but I took several physics, math, stat courses, and will be able to finish a double major in math and compsci while also taking nearly all the elective courses (Deep learning, OS, cybersecurity). Also we require a rigorous algorithms course that is heavily proof based. I could never learn this amount of theory or math on my own.
There are people who learn it on their own and resources to do so. It usually ends up being a question of knowing about it and being motivated to study it in your own time.
My route in the industry was slightly different. Started off programming before I was even 10, got serious about it over the next 5 years, doing lots of personal projects. Made a bit of cash. Didn't really have good economic opportunities for going to college/uni, but went anyways since it seemed like the main route to take. Ended up dropping out a couple of years in bc got lucky with meeting someone who was able to get me a job at a medium sized startup. Did learn some interesting things in college, but would've been much more enjoyable if there wasn't all that other shit that I did not care about.
I have a Computer Science degree, but I feel like I've barely done anything. I've sort of gotten into the industry and sort of haven't, but I do get to work on XR projects like I wanted to for the most part. I never was able to get an internship despite going to a university, so I never felt confident in any of my skills. I got into every job via networking, which is in part thanks to going to university at least.
I am about to graduate with an Associate's Degree in Computer Programming from a community college, then I will be going to a university for 2 more years for a degree in Computer Science. All in all, I will have a Programming Certification (Also from community college), Programming AAS, and Bachelor of Science in Computer Science. I started with just the 1 year certificate program, and after completion I felt that I had not learned enough and I was not confident in my skills to land and hold a job. So I decided to continue, and get an associate's degree. As mentioned, I am about to graduate with that degree and I feel so much more confident in my abilities. I love learning about programming and computer science, I figured I might as well learn more. Having a Bachelors Degree would make me qualified for 90 percent of the programming jobs near me. I understand that I could stop, making some projects and prove my skills, but I prefer a structured learning process. My goals are to own land, start a family, live happily ever after. Modern day America just keeps getting more competitive and expensive, I think a degree will help me complete my goals. I should note that I have good grades which earn good scholarships. My university costs are almost completely covered and I should be able to graduate with no debt (or very little debt). If I had to take out a lot of loans it would likely affect my choices. EDIT: It's also worth noting that I am homeschooled and I also taught myself programming before going to college for it. I did very well in my first year of college because of this. Also you mentioned that your community college classes were easier than your university classes. I don't think that is a pre or post covid thing. The classes I am taking right now in community college are difficult and time consuming. Whereas my girlfriend is going to a university, she has 2 more classes than me, and has about 1/4 the assignments and time required to complete the classes. I think community colleges provide more strict classes than university in general.
What was the reasoning behind being homeschooled until college? I imagine that would feel incredibly isolating, at least for me. I used to have the opinion that Liberal Arts colleges were a waste of time and that colleges should focus entirely on your field of study, but over time I've changed my opinion and now believe it's necessary to produce more well rounded people. I'm glad that I'm required to take classes I wouldn't necessarily choose myself, because it introduces me to concepts I never would have experienced otherwise.
With college already being overpriced, being forced to take credits entirely unrelated to the career you've chosen is annoying at best and infuriating at worst. Intro to music, sociology, and geology are just three courses that serve me in absolutely no way except for a handful of trivia factoids I still remember. Knowing the hardness at which glass scratches or the difference between a minor pentatonic and major pentatonic scale contributes virtually nothing to my life now and having to take those "worthless" credits created a lot of unnecessary stress for me in college
I grew up in a Christian community, so I could socialize through that instead of school. I also have 3 siblings (also homeschooled) and a lot of extended family nearby. I definitely still got way less peer-level socialization, but I think it worked out fine in the end. I probably benefited from the non-CS classes more than most since I knew most of the CS stuff already, but I do still think that CS degrees aren't spending enough time focusing on applicable skills for the average person. Everything is a tradeoff and I think that (job wise) it's better to have someone more experienced in CS than well rounded in humanities and history. Making people pay tuition for things that aren't the bare minimum needed for work seems unnecessary when people are financially struggling.
i disagree with this, although well rounded people is a good thing, all of these years wastes your life, most people are studying for the job you are wasting their time.
@@DaFluffyPotato may I ask which denomination? In my country, Brazil, there's been a growing homeschooling movement led by Christians, especially Roman Catholics.
I don't regret my cs degree as its what i wanted to do and still what I want to doubt I haven't had any luck finding a paying job for a year since graduation. So far I've been lucky enough to get an unpaid internship which might help me out getting a job but that remains to be seen. From what I'm able to tell that's average as all my friends who are cs majors can find a job and they know other friend groups of cs majors with no jobs. I enjoy making projects as least with my friends that's been the silver lining of my life so far. I haven't gone a point where I haven't been practicing my craft or gaining new skills even tho I don't really see to much reward for it. I still wish I could do skills like what you do in your videos. Always wanted to do game dev but considering my situation I cant really afford to spend that time rn. After my current projects ends tho I do wanna do some passion project.
@@samhonor6631 nope, same boat, just trying to get job now that's better then my current cashier job. If anything I'm just hoping to get a helpdesk job at this point.
I think it depends on the person, for some people that mentorship and guideance is an absolute godsend because they don't have the discipline and/or experience to self-learn, it can be challenging to teach yourself things, to even know what you need to learn can throw some people off. Formal education will give you guideance, but in either case the only people who do really well in either case are those who eventually learn how to self-learn. CS is a lifelong learning process, you never just know it and are done, you have to keep learning
I'm so jealous about people that are homeschooled or can take an alternate path in middle/highschool education. I'm going to do everything in my power to provide this to my children. Montessori and Waldorf schools, moving to another country, hiring tutors, teaching them myself, whatever.
As a final note, to anyone scanning comments, DO NOT do it just because your parents say so. If you're not ready, then you're not ready. On any degree or specialization. You don't owe then jack crap, and you'll feel better for it. Trust me.
Things were very different when I got my CS degree. There was no Internet, no WWW, no Google, no TH-cam. Finding in-depth technical information about anything as a private individual was very difficult. I wasn't really thinking about a career when I went to university. I just knew I was interested in computers and wanted to learn more about them, and that seemed like it would be a good way to do so. I'm glad I did, I had a great time and learned heaps. I also got to play around with equipment and software far in advance of anything available to a hobbyist then, and to rub shoulders with lots of other people just as geeky as me who I would never have met otherwise. However, I would also consider myself largely self-taught. I'd had a few years of hobbyist hardware and programming experience before I started, and much of what I learned during my university years came from doing my own things outside the curriculum. But I wouldn't have had the opportunity to do those things outside the university environment. So, for me, at that time, it was definitely worth it. But so much has changed since then that I wouldn't know what to advise now.
I graduated high school at 17. I became an apprentice electrician because my father was in prison and I couldnt afford school and lifebwas crasy for me then. A year and a half later i joined the Army and did 10 years in the Army. I got out and became a firefighter. I am now going back to school for computer science. The one thing that always held me back was not having a bachelors degree. If youre fine with just being self taught thats perfectly ok, just know that you will only get so far and there's a ceiling on that. The degree gets you in the door and the certifications/experience you have after that get you the salary that you desire. Anyone reading this, go to communtiy college first and knock out your associates for cheap and then after get your bachelors. You will save so much money and it will give you time to mature. You also need to learn how to interview and write a resume. It's all the little things that add up.
I wish I would have been able to self-learn or at least graduated from high school with an AA degree like you've done. This is impressive! I do think that you suffered most from the inclusion of 'unnecessary' classes simply because you already had a goal/career in mind; I suppose they work best for students who haven't figured it out by exposing them to many different things.
I work in a very specialized field of CS and EE which requires high level math, if you are interested in doing deep tech then a degree probably is even more important as learning that alone is extremely hard
Recent software engineering grad from a university and went the exact same route. Homeschooled, dual enrolled, internships, etc. Super difficult question to answer. I think internships are the most important reason to go to college. You also kind of have to realize that college doesn’t teach you many skills that actually help your degree. Out of the numerous classes you are going to take, only about 4-8 of them are actually useful. Many of the professors don’t know what they are doing, using very simple or dated methods, or aren’t very good at coding themselves and have turned what you thought would be a programming course into an entire no code course. The silver lining is that most companies (for whatever reason) highly value a degree and going to college allows you to network with other companies and get internships that then turn into full time roles.
I would say all the things you can learn from a degree, you can learn as a self-taught individual (literally). However, obtaining a degree means that you followed a predefined path, which made it easier, and that's a good thing. Many people get lost or can't even find a starting point (this becomes even more apparent when you delve into low-level concepts). Nevertheless, there are a plethora of free resources available out there, you just have to search for them. Additionally, having a degree means you probably created many networking opportunities along your journey, which means you know more people than a self-taught engineer does. A degree can also provide you with better prospects when seeking employment with companies. In conclusion, when comparing self-taught versus graduate individuals from a learning/knowledge perspective, a self-taught individual can be on the same level as a graduate (if not more advanced). However, from an opportunities perspective, obtaining a degree would be the preferable route to take (especially if you are inclined towards CS differently than a person who just chose CS and that's it).
I don't know whether it's inspiring or disheartening that the super genius that picked this shit up at 12 struggled with this decision as much as I am.
This was super interesting. Personally I went to Champlain for a game programming degree specifically, and I totally think it was worth it. Because of the game program they have we got the experience of working on a proper team and everything, plus companies often come to us senior year to grab seniors. My technical skills probably would’ve been better through self study but my knowledge of working on a team would’ve been missing. It’s what allowed me to do freelance straight out of college. I was also wondering, do you think you’d ever just work freelance full time one day or do you plan on always working for a company? I’ve thought about working for a company but I’m not sure I want to give up the flexibility that comes with freelance.
I like the stability of companies. If I'm losing that stability, I'd rather just do solo gamedev. The main exception would be if I could make $200/hr+ from freelancing so that it dramatically outperforms normal work. I charge around $100/hr at the moment.
i think stuff like the "rule confirmation cognitive bias" (see the veritasium video for a better explanation) is one of the things that helped me the most during CS they also made it so you do stuff youself a lot, like making games in pygame (while only being told about the library and the incentive to work with a gameloop function)
Under the assumption that you are going to actually try your best. I believe that as the level of difficulty starts to become hard (like the look yourself in the mirror and ask "what the hell am i doing here" hard) the more important it is to be at university. If you're at a good institution you'll be surrounded by experts in the field, some of which may have even created some of the things you're studying. More importantly you're surrounded by fellow students who are struggling just the same as you are. This shared struggle can lead to some really good friendships, it definitely did for me. Sometimes it takes a while at university to get to the "I need help stage"; for me about half way through my third year. But don't forget where you are. I can almost guarantee you that there is a professor or club that can offer a more exciting challenge than intro courses. But then again you could just float through uni and essentially pay for a slip of paper, which will always be a waste.
general education is the reason i dropped out and gave up on college. i just couldnt wrap my head around how my computer engineering degree required a class on biology. This is why i like trade schools so much. GET.TO.THE.POINT. Teach me specifically what i need to make money. if i want to be an electrician i shouldnt first need to spend copious amounts of money learning philosolphy and music appreciation.
I'm currently in programming trade school and it's much better content wise than college. This is coming from Europe so university over here is much more harsh and cruel and a turnover rate for engineering degrees is at around 50% or more. I tried to do college this year but ended up so exhausted and depressed that for the sake of my own life I re-enrolled into a trade school. Since I knew pretty early on that I wanted to do programming for a living or something similar. It's mostly online, but I live near the centre so there's some physical classes once a month which are more detailed and teach cool stuff which is useful or at the very least commonly seen at workplaces, stuff like using Linux and commands, troubleshooting PCs, repairing old computers with new parts and administation with Windows 10 Pro. There's also supposed to job platforms at the center later these months. So far, it's been great, and if you're wondering what subjects they teach, we learn Java, SQL, HTML and CSS, XML and its schemas, database normalization, and the process of making software (talking with the client, figuring out the language and libraries to use, developing, testing, etc). Which is much more when you compare it to Programming I and II from college where you just go into C and do problems, without any explanations and have to figure it out on your own (I first learned C++ when I was younger so I aced the classes, but if I didn't I could easily see myself failing or barely passing) If you want to learn C on the college level I would recommend trying out CS50 first and see how that goes, they basically explain it better than my physical college did and the problems there are complex and entertaining (much better when compared to my previous college experience of having problems like "Make a program which will find even numbers" or "Make a calculator" where as CS50 asked on the first weeks to figure out if a credit card number is a VISA, Mastercard or AMEX and provided tips and logical explanations of the process, and other cool problem sets which made me want to learn). They then switch it to Python for a bit for contrast and go to SQL and then some final units before your own project. *TL:DR; Went into college, grew so tired I dropped out of it for the sake of my health and wellbeing, and started going into trade school and doing CS50 on the side. Ended up learning more in 3 months than I did in a semester in college.*
So you missed on an entire world of knowledge that is directly useful and relevant to engineering. Congratulations. Now you don't have a chance to recognise bionic-inspired patterns and invent new ones. This is exactly why self-taughts are frowned upon - you think you know what knowledge is relevant and what is not, and it's hilarious. Also, learning to make money is a crappy motivation.
@@vitalyl1327 uh. Ok lol. Well. You enjoy your bionic inspired patterns. I’ll be here in Tahiti enjoying a cocktail while getting paid regardless and with 0 debt. But it’s good that you saw the value in it. Everyone’s different. Edit: trade schools aren’t self taught. You learn by doing and are universally accredited.you get a valid license to practice whatever you are studying.
@@JC-jz6rx yes, everyone is differemt.Some are better, some are worse. Some are ignorant and incompetent, some are knowledgeable and powerful. And the funniest part is that those who are motivated by money end up skint and not getting any, while those who were primarily driven by a thrist for knowledge get all the money. Hilarious, is not it? But obvious, if you think of it. Those who were motivated by money end up being awful engineers, and nobody want to pay awful engineers. You should have learned that biology course, really.
I dropped out after my first semester in CS, just wasn't for me. IMO it all comes down to your actual abilities and aptitude. It is harder to break through those major companies that a real human doesn't even consider your application without a degree, though.
I guess it also make sense if you were born in a 3rd world country (like I am) and wish to move somewhere nicer, having a degree is a huge pro for immigration. It's not impossible to move without a degree but it makes it much harder in some cases. But also education is often free or quite cheap in those places, so it's only a matter of time. Thank you for the video
I kind of feel that about how lockdowns have changed the college experience. And yet you still get that one annoying student who is always first to raise their hand (in zoom) and blurt out the answer,
For myself, I work Cyber Security with 10+ years experience in the industry and I am still debating if I should go back and finish my degree since I currently still dont have any degree. I just dont know if its worth it or if there is any value in it in the first place, or if I should just continue to chase certifications.
It's not that I don't see value in a CS degree/certification outside of getting a job... it's just that I really wish I had a job. I don't have a degree, but I did get a CS50x Certification.... so that's something to put on my linkedin at least. Honestly, I feel I need to sort out my difficulties with constant burnouts before I even consider trying to get a job on the field, It's been months since I last opened my code editor, and these long burnout phases are very frequent actually.... At first I was envious because from the description you put on your streams, you're younger than me, yet so much better.... but not only did you start much earlier than I did with coding, but you are clearly much better at... well.. LEARNING, than I do... I'm still trying to learn how to learn... or learn how to learn effectively...
One advice I could offer is to just not stress it as long as you're doing something. Try doing Advent of Code, small game jams, or even just other hobbies like gardening or gaming. You don't always need to make a finished project, just one in a year, but always try to do something. Sometimes I just play card games or scroll reddit for a while, then kick back into gear.
Also in addition, with self education you can pursure getting certifications for a fraction of the price of college. And in my opinion certifications are more valuable that a degree. Since the way I see it is you need to maintain your cert. You dont have to do anything with a degree at all once you got it. And in this industry if you dont stay on top of things you will fall behind real fast.
did you have a subject like "analysis and development of requiremebts" where you learn how to transition from your most basic requirements for a system (like "i want to have snakes in my game") to actual all out business schema and final system template (not architecture, not as in "REST API DOCKER KUBERNETES this and that")?
Personally I believe if u finished ur associate degree and got a job as a normal software engineer then no need to continue ur bachelor cuz they focus more on ur experience in the industry. An associate degree holder with 3 years of expertise in the industry worth more than a fresh BA graduate. Idk about the US but it’s like that in my country which considered top 10 globally (in CS).
Been in the industry for ten or fifteen years, and my degree is the reason I program at all. I mean, I went to college shooting for the school of music, but didn't get in, and picked CS because at the time computer graphics - or arts - wasn't really a thing and computer science had the word "computer" in it, which was halfway there at least. Well I fell in love. With programming, that is. So if not for that happy happenstance within the scope of formal education, I'd never be in the career I hold near and dear. I think what I got most out of my university was the environment. All the extra general classes only really got in the way, but there were plenty of times I'd head over to hang with friends and we'd just talk shop and code. I'll agree with the video in that personal projects are what got me ahead in the end. I had two to three times as many lines of code written for random crap I thought up and pursued on my own time than what my classes called for. But if not for that place chock full of people just like me, shooting for some fancy future or the other and geeking out about whatever crazy new algorithm or idea someone had, I'd never have developed the skills I needed out of college to be worth a damn. To an employer, at least. I mean it took me years after graduating to make the kind of salary the older generations sold the idea of college on, but then I've never hit the hiring or promotion walls FluffyPotato brings up, so... I think I came out ahead for having gained a degree for sure.
I did 9 month of internship at Siemens and another 5 months at Mercedes, and graduated 2 days ago and all I can say is that it is not worth it at all. For the last year I didn't even go to Uni for my classes or finishing project. I did all those in my free time because they were pointless to be honest. Now I am working with the knowledge that I teached myself from the internet which is super sad...
And one more thing I achieve my internships by my coding skills not by connections and I completed my internships literally at the last year of my education because I couldn't find any internship anywhere which is another sad part lol
College university is mostly useful for the social/networking aspects IMO. It was a great time in my life. With how infested those places have become. With rabid ideologists trying to brainwash everyone. I doubt they are a place where any free thinker wants to spend time these days. At least until things change and they become focused on actual learning of real things again.
To me the comp sci classes are about being taught theory and how to think. I understand a lot of stuff behind computers and code, but I don't exactly have the experience of coding much. That's where teaching myself has to come in.
HEY fellow floridian. Im a concept artist thats expanding into Computer science. I just started class, but Ive been experimenting with C#. Python is fun, and im having a blast messing around with code. Is there events in florida for game devs?
Another important point: If you're outside the US and you want to be inside the US, you need at least a bachelor's degree for the work visa -- for STEM jobs, at least. (Some visas make an exception if you have decades of professional experience.)
I'm extremely lucky because, although not the best, my university barely cost me under $400 as a public university. (3 years for degree) Im from Lebanon. My downside is that due to covid and extremely hard economic situation I almost never went to uni and studied online, going to take tests at the end of the year. Downside is I made zero connections
Would you be willing to give some more insight into how you framed your freelance work on your Resume? I'm graduating with my CS degree this december, and I've been doing freelance for the same client since last June. The pay is pretty good, I've built some software, and I have done (many, many) hours of writing technical specifications and design documents for other developers that he has hired. I opted to do this rather than an internship, because now I can say that I have 1 YoE, but at the same time it's been a very informal arrangement and I can't help but feel like it "isn't a real job"
It's definitely harder, but still worth it imo. I'm working now and still picking up new skills, so it's never really too late. Just be financially responsible in any major transitions. 👍
i live in albania and the school system for CS its pretty bad so i have decided to skip university and just be self taught and go to courses i have learned java and spring boot so far and im looking into react as i know js aswell, html and css, tailwind framework hopefully it goes well
I am a freshmen in college going into cyber security. I have seen videos talking about the importance of getting an internship freshmen year but I am just starting out and wondering if it would be better to build up my skills or look for internship opportunity.
You'll know! Just keep attending classes and talking to people (even the janitors), always look out for announcements for things like events, competitions, volunteering work, etc. I didn't believe it back then, but most opportunities are not posted on linkedin, they're presented to you in the most unexpected situations through people you'd have never guessed.
If you're already making games, avoid a study into making games. If you're interested in making games, start the study, decide if it's for you, then drop out and go your own way. Greetings from; someone who made the wrong decisions and wasted a lot of time. If you're passionate enough, they're not gonna add to it. Hope this simple comment might help someone else in the future someday. It might not apply to everyone, but that single person that needs it, keep going!
verry high quality video. Trust me man, if this was done with your face like most other video, but its not the main factor though, it would be more boring.
Did you feel the programming knowledge you learned for making games in python were enough to land you a job? Did you strictly learn just Python before your CS degree?
sir I learned all my coding knowledge, python c++ from internet but I think you need a college degree to get a job in a company like Google , what do you think?
I'm a bit confused by your assessment that education standards will continue to decline post pandemic. Neither of the articles you cite seem to support that claim. The Axios article mentions that ACT scores have dipped post-pandemic. But standardized test scores have always been a poor proxy for how well students will perform in higher education. The NIH study shows that students have not yet caught back up on their learning, but I'd expect that to really mainly impact students immediately graduating high school. The younger the student, the more time they'll have to return to the baseline. But even beyond that, most universities have strict accreditation requirements. Short of the accreditation boards moving the goalposts, universities cannot lower their standards significantly without risking losing their accredited status.
I know teachers (plus many online say the same thing) who have mentioned things getting worse year after year in the academic level of their students. Presumably because having the pandemic at a younger age is more negatively impactful. I didn't look for studies on that since it's inherently speculation still. As for university standards, I witnessed them being dropped in real time first hand. The curving I've seen makes a lot of classes an absolute joke in terms of academic standards.
you guys in the west you have no idea how great you have it. you should fight to keep it that way and better. don't let them destroyed what is good left there
I think a traditional CS degree is worth it, although incredibly frustrating because you only spend 2 years out of 4 doing CS. I’m in a 4 year pure CS program after giving up on a traditional program and it’s so much better. For anyone coming out of high school that’s all in on computer science, really try and find somewhere that doesn’t waste your time on poly Sci and biology and world languages.
I quite like the holistic approach of education. Exposes me to different fields and gain transferable skills that I can combine and create something cool
EDIT: The comments about a continuous academic decline are purely speculation (separate from the decline from covid, which is supported in the studies and anecdotally). We'll have to wait and see.
What are your thoughts on college degrees? Did you get one (and was it worth it)? Are you considering getting one?
Oddly enough, my most useful classes in terms of the actual subjects studied have been my math classes. I've used the electrical concepts from physics and various mathematical concepts that I wouldn't have bothered studying on my own. I really didn't get much out of my actual CS classes.
I am not that good in maths 😅
No because I'm not in college
I am in my first year and I feel the exact opposite as you. I like the programming classes because they're most interesting and I'm good at it (compared to other students). I'm bearing with the math and physics, and while I sometimes find it interesting it's mostly a task which I can't see applications for
I agree a lot with this. I know most of the things the CS classes can teach me, but the math and physics classes are letting me make better games and other CS projects.
I am gonna be honest, for me it was not worth it. I got 2:1 which is no longer enough. Additionally i am a slow learner and the lecturee would often blitz through the lessons
I globally have a different path: drop school at 12 (because i was dirt poor, broken family and living in bad area where the school was just terrible), worked as a baker then chef, learn programming on the side (python, javascript, c#, and now godot) with any resources available, got back to university and got a degree (not related to programming), worked and get bored, then got serious about programming and started a youtube channel for making tutorial and small mobile game on the side, and making a living of it now (still with no education, but in my case i don't want to work for someone or for a company, i prefer be alone doing what i like). Thanks for sharing your journey! :)
where do you live? also what device did you use to code back then? omfg this must be interesting to hear from you since i stopped practicing how to code and then i thought i ran out of excuses anymore when i read this comment. (Actually my only excuse was that i dont have a pc to code efficiently)
@@lunarpacer2834 Hi! I grew up in the suburb of grenoble (in an area called Villeneuve), France in the 80s/90s, I started to code back in 1999 when i was 15 after I saved four month to buy my first computer (a potato pc) and got into programming with python because that was the only resource i was finding. I struggled a lot for years because i was finding no resources anywhere that was solving the problem i was meeting (youtube wasn't existing back then), so i was stopping / going back to it several times a years, while working as a baker to be able to just live. In 2016 I was living in Edinburgh, scotland, bought a pc that was good for that time but become a potato pc after, I got serious into programming and I have learned gamemaker studio, unity, then after an ssd accident i lost most of the project i was about to released which depressed me a lot, i restarted again but this time in an engine that was way easier to handle (godot), at that time it was the version 3 and in some month i've started to make game and it worked a bit more, and now i'm making tutorial, working on small game, my actual commercial steam game and making courses.
In other words: the only good path is your own, so just find something you are interested programming and go for it everyday, no need to go for 6 hours straight, you make a list of thing you wanna do and you try to focus 1hour on it everyday. That's the cheat code :)
I am in a kinda similar situation (tho im still learning), I'm from Venezuela, and it's honestly impossible to attend college, I'm currently working full-time in an absolutely unrelated field whilst practicing code on my own, being a software engineer is my lifetime dream and goal, ever since I was a child, if only the situations i live in were a little different.
Wishing you the best, I can't wait to see what you accomplish!
bro you have 3k subs only, hope u mean you have different income sourcea
I envy your ability to self-regulate your time.
What do you mean self-regulate?
@@mubashirhussain3885 To consistently work on something productive without someone else structuring his time.
@@mubashirhussain3885 I guess he means he is able to motivate himself to constantly learn rather than needing an educational institution to pressure him
@@mubashirhussain3885he means using his own time efficiently and not wasting time
@@mubashirhussain3885 I think he means the ability to control and regulate their own time by their own methods and will
I got a software development job with an art degree. Aside from a Python class I took in my junior year, I learned everything else by myself. What really helped me was making my own games. I did almost everything, pygame, opengl with C, Unity, and now I work as an Unreal Developer. We do mostly simulations for underwater robots, and if I didn't have my coding knowledge from years of making games, I would have had no chance.
Oddly enough, I've heard that the companies that require degrees often just require "a degree". It usually doesn't matter what kind. Having an art degree and teaching yourself software on the side seems like a surprisingly viable path. It certainly helps to have the related degree, but I don't think that's usually the hard requirement.
@@DaFluffyPotato its so annoying tho most of the companies need the degree as a requirement when self education path is a lot better
Ofcourse how else would they sneak in their things they want you to accept aka brainwashing instead of self education where a human actually gains knowledge about the world and do more than nust earn money @quackzilla5971
You could say the journey was UNREAL =D
@@quackzilla5971 depends on the field haha, not sure I wanna fly in a plane made by a self taught aerospace engineer :p
My CS degree has provided me with numerous opportunities as an associate worker at my local McDonalds.
i
Perfect
What TF?! 🤨
maybe you should of listened more and also did internships in college, just saying
@@niavellir7408Shh, CS rep needs to go down so there's less competition 🤫
my cs degree allows you to pick from a slew of hard science courses. For example, you can take physics instead of biology or geology
Yeah, that's how I ended up taking Bio 2. It was that, Physics 3, or Chemistry.
@@DaFluffyPotato I just got a 39% in Physics 3
I had to take all 3
Same I took geology
Still, why are they forcing you to take random unrelated classes at such a high price to get a degree for a completely unrelated industry?
As you get older and farther along in your career the degree will be worth it. There are so many tech jobs that you can't even apply for without CS or EE. There are promotions you won't be eligible for without a degree. As you age you're going to face a lot of discrimination. A lot of older developers I know ended up with the government or companies that mainly work with the government. Those jobs usually require a degree.
Unless you are some sort of genius that can just avoid the HR because everyone wants you or you get lucky with a hit game or app the degree is going to pay off.
Yeah, since companies at larger scales can't screen interviewees one-by-one. Even if you don't plan on joining one, it's nice to have the option.
There are options (of an increasing number) that don't require degrees. The pay gap between them is closing over time as well. For people that have to make larger sacrifices to go to school, it may not be the right option. In my case, I was paid to go, which is why I was fine with it.
@@DaFluffyPotato thats a fair point. personally i think it also has to do with how sure you are with computer science. I myself am not exceedingly sure about cs so it would be better for me to take the cs degree which is extremely versatile, over a software engineering apprenticeship which basically forces me into cs
Its ironic
isnt it the opposite degree only mattered in entry level position. After u get several years of experience they don't care about urs degree but more about work experiences.
Thanks for sharing kid. This is Very helpful, im 36 in Florida self learning for a career path change. Nice to see younger people with propper work ethic and drive to better themselves.
Thanks for taking the time to put this video together. Covid made me a lot less confident in my previous career, and I have been eyeballing CS for about half a year now. Know python pretty well, dabbled in some Rust and Java too. This confirmed some suspicions I had, and answered questions as well.
It is a dauntingly broad set of subjects that need to be learned, and then as you said. The looming threat of AGI. Keep grinding, and thank you once again for sharing your experience.
"homeschooled my whole life"
AH.. thats why you were able to get things done at 12... most of us in public school spend so much time doing stupid busy work that by the time we finsih, we only have enough energy to veg out in front of a tv. def homeschooling my future kids.
homeschooling only works if you have capable parents that will make sure you're actually learning things... If you're left alone on your own, well..
stop complaining and making excuses. If you want to study programming, you can easily free up some time in your day. It's relatively easy compared to when you work 8-12 hours a day.
homeschooling has its advantage but you MUST at all costs force socialisation in the child. Force them to take clubs they enjoy and force them into situations where they need to handle bullying, or conflicts. They are also really important
As a homeschooler, I'm the latter. Worse than normal kids. Now that I'm out of school I've found that I can't do traditional school very well or regulate my time and self study. I feel stuck. Most of the people I know who homeschooled have also ended up like me. We have a server now and try and keep each other motivated, but all of my other friends have dropped out of college and work in minimum wage jobs cause its all they're able to do. I'm in college, but my grades are dropping and I don't know how I'll ever make it through the next 2 years of school. On top of that, I feel behind socially. I'm out of place and struggle to make and keep friends in University. Again, all of the homeschoolers I know feel this way too.
His outcome from my perspective seems rare. Mind you, I also did dual enrollment, and my parents found lots of opportunities for socialization. Its just the fact that theres parts of public school that are impossible to replicate, as well as parts of public school that teach kids to function the way society wants thats difficult to get outside of school. Not to mentioned it has limited opportunities for me like trying to study abroad or go to university school in some countries.
@@dvxv4016nope maybe where you live,where i do its way eaaier to learn coding with a full time job where sometimes i work 14h/day,school was hell wity no free time and burnes brain let alone hhaving decent internet and any conputer related things
Interesting seeing the overlap here - I think the key is learning how to program and knowing how to work on stuff in your spare time (home-schooled or not). It does seem that even though a degree might not be financially worth it (even in the UK where student loans are much less serious), it is required if you wish to progress through the industry for now - you also passively take home some subtle skills that aren't often talked about while getting a degree (such as writing/communication).
Great video - I agree with everything you said that I have experience to relate to :)
I think ultimately my CS degree was worth it. It really helped me get my foot in the door when it came to my first job, and even though I didn't absorb everything during the time, it helped me build a good foundation. I always say there are three types of knowledge: "what you know", "what you don't know you don't know" and "what you know you don't know". Having a degree really can really help you round out that third type. My only regret is not trying harder and taking more in. I was pretty young at the time and I feel I didn't get the most out of the time period as I could have. My knack for self-learning didnt come until much later in life.
I’m a rising senior in CS, I kind of don’t like programming but I like tech. It’s been hard to find internships and I think I am bound to graduate with none. I’m thinking of doing a masters in business or engineering because I’m worried it will be hard to find jobs in tech. What do you think?
@@erkiiiiiiiii617 I don't know your location, but I imagine finding a job should not be too difficult. If you have programmed a lot and still don't enjoy it then i'd say don't focus on it, cause life is just too short to do something you don't enjoy. Have you considered pivoting to ITOps, QA or DevOps? Big demand for devops these days and could be a good fit for your skillset.
Sadly I had the same self-learning experience. Thought college was supposed to be like high school and didn't focus on anything else rather than getting good grades and live life but it was my mistake and just realize it after looking for internships for the first time and that's when my self learning kick in and started learning on my own instead of way for my professor to give some lecture on it, rising Senior, feel my skills are meh but still grinding
I was homeschooled up until 8th grade then switched to a hybrid homeschool school thing. We’re changing to a college campus next year, and doing the dual-enrollment thing. So cool to know there’s people with similar interest and backgrounds, just on the other side of the country lol
This was pretty interesting to watch because I’m homeschooled and dual enrolled as well, I can 100% relate to your experience.
Really interesting video! I love hearing your perspective on this.
First, congratulations on graduating. I hope you have a great career now.
Second, I've been working in the industry for about 7ish years now and I've worked with people with both degrees and not. Generally speaking everyone has the ability to pick up the skills but sometimes being able to talk about university projects have helped people I know gain a new role. Even when I recently interviewed, some companies were asking what grade I got at university (that being said I took that as a red flag for many of the companies)
I'm not sure where I'm going with this comment...Have a great day!
1:30 Those books are so nostalgic to me. Tutoring is a dream!
Also, how is it we both live in Florida?! I have you to thank for the pygame tutorials and for LMMS and Gifcam, those have changed my life for the better!
I can't say too much about com sci but my degree was really useful in helping me network in my field. I really think that educators should put more emphasis on the importance of being able to network as being educated often doesn't cut it.
Yep. There are a lot of people who don't bother with networking or internships during uni and wonder why they can't find work afterwards.
@DaFluffyPotato i didn't network and i couldn't get a job for a decade lmao. i tried applying for internships but i got rejected because i scored poorly in engineering courses. 😅
@@DaFluffyPotato Honestly, I'm considering going for a degree more for the socialization and networking aspect. (And also because I have zero experience in any kind of teamworking endeavors in CS.)
I'm currently in my first year of college in CS, and I have yet to learn from any classes more than I've learned on my own from the Internet, truthfully I decided to go to college just for the degree and the opportunities my uni provides for internships. Most people in my year share the same mentality, and frankly, I think more and more people attend university not to learn something, but to get that "important paper" (degree).
dual major then
Appreciate hearing your journey, it’s pretty interesting. Definitely agree with the social aspect of university being a plus.
My cs program general requirements are 3 courses in each division. Div 1 is arts and humanities (music, english, language), Div 2 is Social Sciences (history, econ, political science), div 3 is math and lab sciences (filled by cs). I didnt specialize in my first year, but I took several physics, math, stat courses, and will be able to finish a double major in math and compsci while also taking nearly all the elective courses (Deep learning, OS, cybersecurity). Also we require a rigorous algorithms course that is heavily proof based. I could never learn this amount of theory or math on my own.
There are people who learn it on their own and resources to do so. It usually ends up being a question of knowing about it and being motivated to study it in your own time.
I like how you could talk about entering the industry both through self-learning and via formal education, its a interesting perspective
My route in the industry was slightly different. Started off programming before I was even 10, got serious about it over the next 5 years, doing lots of personal projects. Made a bit of cash. Didn't really have good economic opportunities for going to college/uni, but went anyways since it seemed like the main route to take. Ended up dropping out a couple of years in bc got lucky with meeting someone who was able to get me a job at a medium sized startup. Did learn some interesting things in college, but would've been much more enjoyable if there wasn't all that other shit that I did not care about.
I have a Computer Science degree, but I feel like I've barely done anything. I've sort of gotten into the industry and sort of haven't, but I do get to work on XR projects like I wanted to for the most part.
I never was able to get an internship despite going to a university, so I never felt confident in any of my skills. I got into every job via networking, which is in part thanks to going to university at least.
me2
I am about to graduate with an Associate's Degree in Computer Programming from a community college, then I will be going to a university for 2 more years for a degree in Computer Science. All in all, I will have a Programming Certification (Also from community college), Programming AAS, and Bachelor of Science in Computer Science.
I started with just the 1 year certificate program, and after completion I felt that I had not learned enough and I was not confident in my skills to land and hold a job. So I decided to continue, and get an associate's degree. As mentioned, I am about to graduate with that degree and I feel so much more confident in my abilities. I love learning about programming and computer science, I figured I might as well learn more. Having a Bachelors Degree would make me qualified for 90 percent of the programming jobs near me. I understand that I could stop, making some projects and prove my skills, but I prefer a structured learning process.
My goals are to own land, start a family, live happily ever after. Modern day America just keeps getting more competitive and expensive, I think a degree will help me complete my goals.
I should note that I have good grades which earn good scholarships. My university costs are almost completely covered and I should be able to graduate with no debt (or very little debt). If I had to take out a lot of loans it would likely affect my choices.
EDIT: It's also worth noting that I am homeschooled and I also taught myself programming before going to college for it. I did very well in my first year of college because of this. Also you mentioned that your community college classes were easier than your university classes. I don't think that is a pre or post covid thing. The classes I am taking right now in community college are difficult and time consuming. Whereas my girlfriend is going to a university, she has 2 more classes than me, and has about 1/4 the assignments and time required to complete the classes. I think community colleges provide more strict classes than university in general.
What was the reasoning behind being homeschooled until college? I imagine that would feel incredibly isolating, at least for me.
I used to have the opinion that Liberal Arts colleges were a waste of time and that colleges should focus entirely on your field of study, but over time I've changed my opinion and now believe it's necessary to produce more well rounded people. I'm glad that I'm required to take classes I wouldn't necessarily choose myself, because it introduces me to concepts I never would have experienced otherwise.
With college already being overpriced, being forced to take credits entirely unrelated to the career you've chosen is annoying at best and infuriating at worst. Intro to music, sociology, and geology are just three courses that serve me in absolutely no way except for a handful of trivia factoids I still remember. Knowing the hardness at which glass scratches or the difference between a minor pentatonic and major pentatonic scale contributes virtually nothing to my life now and having to take those "worthless" credits created a lot of unnecessary stress for me in college
I grew up in a Christian community, so I could socialize through that instead of school. I also have 3 siblings (also homeschooled) and a lot of extended family nearby. I definitely still got way less peer-level socialization, but I think it worked out fine in the end.
I probably benefited from the non-CS classes more than most since I knew most of the CS stuff already, but I do still think that CS degrees aren't spending enough time focusing on applicable skills for the average person. Everything is a tradeoff and I think that (job wise) it's better to have someone more experienced in CS than well rounded in humanities and history. Making people pay tuition for things that aren't the bare minimum needed for work seems unnecessary when people are financially struggling.
i disagree with this, although well rounded people is a good thing, all of these years wastes your life, most people are studying for the job you are wasting their time.
@@DaFluffyPotato may I ask which denomination? In my country, Brazil, there's been a growing homeschooling movement led by Christians, especially Roman Catholics.
I don't regret my cs degree as its what i wanted to do and still what I want to doubt I haven't had any luck finding a paying job for a year since graduation. So far I've been lucky enough to get an unpaid internship which might help me out getting a job but that remains to be seen. From what I'm able to tell that's average as all my friends who are cs majors can find a job and they know other friend groups of cs majors with no jobs. I enjoy making projects as least with my friends that's been the silver lining of my life so far. I haven't gone a point where I haven't been practicing my craft or gaining new skills even tho I don't really see to much reward for it. I still wish I could do skills like what you do in your videos. Always wanted to do game dev but considering my situation I cant really afford to spend that time rn. After my current projects ends tho I do wanna do some passion project.
how are you doing? Did you find a job?
@@samhonor6631 nope, same boat, just trying to get job now that's better then my current cashier job. If anything I'm just hoping to get a helpdesk job at this point.
I think it depends on the person, for some people that mentorship and guideance is an absolute godsend because they don't have the discipline and/or experience to self-learn, it can be challenging to teach yourself things, to even know what you need to learn can throw some people off. Formal education will give you guideance, but in either case the only people who do really well in either case are those who eventually learn how to self-learn.
CS is a lifelong learning process, you never just know it and are done, you have to keep learning
I live in Florida too. Wasn’t expecting you to be from Florida for some reason.
I'm so jealous about people that are homeschooled or can take an alternate path in middle/highschool education. I'm going to do everything in my power to provide this to my children. Montessori and Waldorf schools, moving to another country, hiring tutors, teaching them myself, whatever.
Trust me waldorf is not something you want to get into.
As a final note, to anyone scanning comments, DO NOT do it just because your parents say so. If you're not ready, then you're not ready. On any degree or specialization. You don't owe then jack crap, and you'll feel better for it. Trust me.
Wish I saw this comment a year or two earlier :( This advice would have saved my dumb ass
Wish I saw this comment 10 years ago.
Things were very different when I got my CS degree. There was no Internet, no WWW, no Google, no TH-cam. Finding in-depth technical information about anything as a private individual was very difficult. I wasn't really thinking about a career when I went to university. I just knew I was interested in computers and wanted to learn more about them, and that seemed like it would be a good way to do so.
I'm glad I did, I had a great time and learned heaps. I also got to play around with equipment and software far in advance of anything available to a hobbyist then, and to rub shoulders with lots of other people just as geeky as me who I would never have met otherwise.
However, I would also consider myself largely self-taught. I'd had a few years of hobbyist hardware and programming experience before I started, and much of what I learned during my university years came from doing my own things outside the curriculum. But I wouldn't have had the opportunity to do those things outside the university environment.
So, for me, at that time, it was definitely worth it. But so much has changed since then that I wouldn't know what to advise now.
I graduated high school at 17. I became an apprentice electrician because my father was in prison and I couldnt afford school and lifebwas crasy for me then. A year and a half later i joined the Army and did 10 years in the Army. I got out and became a firefighter. I am now going back to school for computer science. The one thing that always held me back was not having a bachelors degree. If youre fine with just being self taught thats perfectly ok, just know that you will only get so far and there's a ceiling on that. The degree gets you in the door and the certifications/experience you have after that get you the salary that you desire. Anyone reading this, go to communtiy college first and knock out your associates for cheap and then after get your bachelors. You will save so much money and it will give you time to mature. You also need to learn how to interview and write a resume. It's all the little things that add up.
I wish I would have been able to self-learn or at least graduated from high school with an AA degree like you've done. This is impressive! I do think that you suffered most from the inclusion of 'unnecessary' classes simply because you already had a goal/career in mind; I suppose they work best for students who haven't figured it out by exposing them to many different things.
I work in a very specialized field of CS and EE which requires high level math, if you are interested in doing deep tech then a degree probably is even more important as learning that alone is extremely hard
Recent software engineering grad from a university and went the exact same route. Homeschooled, dual enrolled, internships, etc. Super difficult question to answer. I think internships are the most important reason to go to college. You also kind of have to realize that college doesn’t teach you many skills that actually help your degree. Out of the numerous classes you are going to take, only about 4-8 of them are actually useful. Many of the professors don’t know what they are doing, using very simple or dated methods, or aren’t very good at coding themselves and have turned what you thought would be a programming course into an entire no code course. The silver lining is that most companies (for whatever reason) highly value a degree and going to college allows you to network with other companies and get internships that then turn into full time roles.
I still feel like a freshman as graduate
I would say all the things you can learn from a degree, you can learn as a self-taught individual (literally). However, obtaining a degree means that you followed a predefined path, which made it easier, and that's a good thing. Many people get lost or can't even find a starting point (this becomes even more apparent when you delve into low-level concepts). Nevertheless, there are a plethora of free resources available out there, you just have to search for them. Additionally, having a degree means you probably created many networking opportunities along your journey, which means you know more people than a self-taught engineer does. A degree can also provide you with better prospects when seeking employment with companies. In conclusion, when comparing self-taught versus graduate individuals from a learning/knowledge perspective, a self-taught individual can be on the same level as a graduate (if not more advanced). However, from an opportunities perspective, obtaining a degree would be the preferable route to take (especially if you are inclined towards CS differently than a person who just chose CS and that's it).
This was such a helpful and honest discussion
I don't know whether it's inspiring or disheartening that the super genius that picked this shit up at 12 struggled with this decision as much as I am.
This was super interesting. Personally I went to Champlain for a game programming degree specifically, and I totally think it was worth it. Because of the game program they have we got the experience of working on a proper team and everything, plus companies often come to us senior year to grab seniors. My technical skills probably would’ve been better through self study but my knowledge of working on a team would’ve been missing. It’s what allowed me to do freelance straight out of college. I was also wondering, do you think you’d ever just work freelance full time one day or do you plan on always working for a company? I’ve thought about working for a company but I’m not sure I want to give up the flexibility that comes with freelance.
I like the stability of companies. If I'm losing that stability, I'd rather just do solo gamedev. The main exception would be if I could make $200/hr+ from freelancing so that it dramatically outperforms normal work. I charge around $100/hr at the moment.
i think stuff like the "rule confirmation cognitive bias" (see the veritasium video for a better explanation) is one of the things that helped me the most during CS
they also made it so you do stuff youself a lot, like making games in pygame (while only being told about the library and the incentive to work with a gameloop function)
Under the assumption that you are going to actually try your best. I believe that as the level of difficulty starts to become hard (like the look yourself in the mirror and ask "what the hell am i doing here" hard) the more important it is to be at university. If you're at a good institution you'll be surrounded by experts in the field, some of which may have even created some of the things you're studying. More importantly you're surrounded by fellow students who are struggling just the same as you are. This shared struggle can lead to some really good friendships, it definitely did for me.
Sometimes it takes a while at university to get to the "I need help stage"; for me about half way through my third year. But don't forget where you are. I can almost guarantee you that there is a professor or club that can offer a more exciting challenge than intro courses. But then again you could just float through uni and essentially pay for a slip of paper, which will always be a waste.
I came across your channel a while back and we're about the same age so cool to see that journey. best of luck man
I started watching your tutorial, it's for getting the feel of the language. Wish muck
Game of life like top down AND useful insight? you have me sold
general education is the reason i dropped out and gave up on college. i just couldnt wrap my head around how my computer engineering degree required a class on biology. This is why i like trade schools so much. GET.TO.THE.POINT. Teach me specifically what i need to make money. if i want to be an electrician i shouldnt first need to spend copious amounts of money learning philosolphy and music appreciation.
I'm currently in programming trade school and it's much better content wise than college. This is coming from Europe so university over here is much more harsh and cruel and a turnover rate for engineering degrees is at around 50% or more. I tried to do college this year but ended up so exhausted and depressed that for the sake of my own life I re-enrolled into a trade school. Since I knew pretty early on that I wanted to do programming for a living or something similar.
It's mostly online, but I live near the centre so there's some physical classes once a month which are more detailed and teach cool stuff which is useful or at the very least commonly seen at workplaces, stuff like using Linux and commands, troubleshooting PCs, repairing old computers with new parts and administation with Windows 10 Pro. There's also supposed to job platforms at the center later these months.
So far, it's been great, and if you're wondering what subjects they teach, we learn Java, SQL, HTML and CSS, XML and its schemas, database normalization, and the process of making software (talking with the client, figuring out the language and libraries to use, developing, testing, etc).
Which is much more when you compare it to Programming I and II from college where you just go into C and do problems, without any explanations and have to figure it out on your own (I first learned C++ when I was younger so I aced the classes, but if I didn't I could easily see myself failing or barely passing)
If you want to learn C on the college level I would recommend trying out CS50 first and see how that goes, they basically explain it better than my physical college did and the problems there are complex and entertaining (much better when compared to my previous college experience of having problems like "Make a program which will find even numbers" or "Make a calculator" where as CS50 asked on the first weeks to figure out if a credit card number is a VISA, Mastercard or AMEX and provided tips and logical explanations of the process, and other cool problem sets which made me want to learn). They then switch it to Python for a bit for contrast and go to SQL and then some final units before your own project.
*TL:DR; Went into college, grew so tired I dropped out of it for the sake of my health and wellbeing, and started going into trade school and doing CS50 on the side. Ended up learning more in 3 months than I did in a semester in college.*
@@shroomer3867 that tldr just about sums up the general reality of it all. (I did read everything) glad you’re Enjoying the journey now.
So you missed on an entire world of knowledge that is directly useful and relevant to engineering. Congratulations. Now you don't have a chance to recognise bionic-inspired patterns and invent new ones. This is exactly why self-taughts are frowned upon - you think you know what knowledge is relevant and what is not, and it's hilarious. Also, learning to make money is a crappy motivation.
@@vitalyl1327 uh. Ok lol. Well. You enjoy your bionic inspired patterns. I’ll be here in Tahiti enjoying a cocktail while getting paid regardless and with 0 debt. But it’s good that you saw the value in it. Everyone’s different.
Edit: trade schools aren’t self taught. You learn by doing and are universally accredited.you get a valid license to practice whatever you are studying.
@@JC-jz6rx yes, everyone is differemt.Some are better, some are worse. Some are ignorant and incompetent, some are knowledgeable and powerful.
And the funniest part is that those who are motivated by money end up skint and not getting any, while those who were primarily driven by a thrist for knowledge get all the money. Hilarious, is not it? But obvious, if you think of it. Those who were motivated by money end up being awful engineers, and nobody want to pay awful engineers. You should have learned that biology course, really.
Very solid video!
I dropped out after my first semester in CS, just wasn't for me. IMO it all comes down to your actual abilities and aptitude. It is harder to break through those major companies that a real human doesn't even consider your application without a degree, though.
I guess it also make sense if you were born in a 3rd world country (like I am) and wish to move somewhere nicer, having a degree is a huge pro for immigration. It's not impossible to move without a degree but it makes it much harder in some cases. But also education is often free or quite cheap in those places, so it's only a matter of time.
Thank you for the video
You are the perfect candidate for a computer science degree ahha I loved the story what a unique life
Hi @DaFluffyPotato. Can you please give us a tutorial on how you do dialogue systems?
I kind of feel that about how lockdowns have changed the college experience. And yet you still get that one annoying student who is always first to raise their hand (in zoom) and blurt out the answer,
For myself, I work Cyber Security with 10+ years experience in the industry and I am still debating if I should go back and finish my degree since I currently still dont have any degree. I just dont know if its worth it or if there is any value in it in the first place, or if I should just continue to chase certifications.
It's not that I don't see value in a CS degree/certification outside of getting a job... it's just that I really wish I had a job.
I don't have a degree, but I did get a CS50x Certification.... so that's something to put on my linkedin at least.
Honestly, I feel I need to sort out my difficulties with constant burnouts before I even consider trying to get a job on the field, It's been months since I last opened my code editor, and these long burnout phases are very frequent actually....
At first I was envious because from the description you put on your streams, you're younger than me, yet so much better.... but not only did you start much earlier than I did with coding, but you are clearly much better at... well.. LEARNING, than I do... I'm still trying to learn how to learn... or learn how to learn effectively...
i have my CS degree and it is not worth it lol
the CS50 has a game course too, you should give that a go
@@Zuranthus I know.
One advice I could offer is to just not stress it as long as you're doing something. Try doing Advent of Code, small game jams, or even just other hobbies like gardening or gaming. You don't always need to make a finished project, just one in a year, but always try to do something. Sometimes I just play card games or scroll reddit for a while, then kick back into gear.
This really hit me in the feels.
Also in addition, with self education you can pursure getting certifications for a fraction of the price of college. And in my opinion certifications are more valuable that a degree. Since the way I see it is you need to maintain your cert. You dont have to do anything with a degree at all once you got it. And in this industry if you dont stay on top of things you will fall behind real fast.
did you have a subject like "analysis and development of requiremebts" where you learn how to transition from your most basic requirements for a system (like "i want to have snakes in my game") to actual all out business schema and final system template (not architecture, not as in "REST API DOCKER KUBERNETES this and that")?
you are amazing.
Personally I believe if u finished ur associate degree and got a job as a normal software engineer then no need to continue ur bachelor cuz they focus more on ur experience in the industry. An associate degree holder with 3 years of expertise in the industry worth more than a fresh BA graduate. Idk about the US but it’s like that in my country which considered top 10 globally (in CS).
Been in the industry for ten or fifteen years, and my degree is the reason I program at all. I mean, I went to college shooting for the school of music, but didn't get in, and picked CS because at the time computer graphics - or arts - wasn't really a thing and computer science had the word "computer" in it, which was halfway there at least.
Well I fell in love. With programming, that is. So if not for that happy happenstance within the scope of formal education, I'd never be in the career I hold near and dear. I think what I got most out of my university was the environment. All the extra general classes only really got in the way, but there were plenty of times I'd head over to hang with friends and we'd just talk shop and code.
I'll agree with the video in that personal projects are what got me ahead in the end. I had two to three times as many lines of code written for random crap I thought up and pursued on my own time than what my classes called for. But if not for that place chock full of people just like me, shooting for some fancy future or the other and geeking out about whatever crazy new algorithm or idea someone had, I'd never have developed the skills I needed out of college to be worth a damn.
To an employer, at least.
I mean it took me years after graduating to make the kind of salary the older generations sold the idea of college on, but then I've never hit the hiring or promotion walls FluffyPotato brings up, so... I think I came out ahead for having gained a degree for sure.
May I ask what kind of projects would you recommend for someone trying to learn programming on their own? Great vid btw!
Im still waiting for an answer just like u hahaha
how do you make this games 😮😮 it is so cool with the animations and the other things. You even made a circle as a loading screen😭
Can you rate my game out of ten?🥹
Yo, I was homeschooled too and also taught myself programming! Great to see another HS out there and making great content like this 😊
I did 9 month of internship at Siemens and another 5 months at Mercedes, and graduated 2 days ago and all I can say is that it is not worth it at all. For the last year I didn't even go to Uni for my classes or finishing project. I did all those in my free time because they were pointless to be honest. Now I am working with the knowledge that I teached myself from the internet which is super sad...
On top of that the amount of money we had to pay that put my family in a difficult position was sad as well.
And one more thing I achieve my internships by my coding skills not by connections and I completed my internships literally at the last year of my education because I couldn't find any internship anywhere which is another sad part lol
I hope your happy for the home schooling because normal school is quite bad
Education is about much more than just job training
College university is mostly useful for the social/networking aspects IMO. It was a great time in my life. With how infested those places have become. With rabid ideologists trying to brainwash everyone. I doubt they are a place where any free thinker wants to spend time these days. At least until things change and they become focused on actual learning of real things again.
To me the comp sci classes are about being taught theory and how to think. I understand a lot of stuff behind computers and code, but I don't exactly have the experience of coding much. That's where teaching myself has to come in.
HEY fellow floridian. Im a concept artist thats expanding into Computer science. I just started class, but Ive been experimenting with C#. Python is fun, and im having a blast messing around with code. Is there events in florida for game devs?
Another important point: If you're outside the US and you want to be inside the US, you need at least a bachelor's degree for the work visa -- for STEM jobs, at least.
(Some visas make an exception if you have decades of professional experience.)
I'm extremely lucky because, although not the best, my university barely cost me under $400 as a public university. (3 years for degree)
Im from Lebanon.
My downside is that due to covid and extremely hard economic situation I almost never went to uni and studied online, going to take tests at the end of the year.
Downside is I made zero connections
Watching the video and can’t stop thinking about conways game of life I don’t know why this video just makes me think about it
some of the rocks move erratically
ty for the info my gyatt rizzler
Would you be willing to give some more insight into how you framed your freelance work on your Resume? I'm graduating with my CS degree this december, and I've been doing freelance for the same client since last June. The pay is pretty good, I've built some software, and I have done (many, many) hours of writing technical specifications and design documents for other developers that he has hired. I opted to do this rather than an internship, because now I can say that I have 1 YoE, but at the same time it's been a very informal arrangement and I can't help but feel like it "isn't a real job"
Wow that much experience at 18, any advice for us starting from the beginning at a much older age?
he has a lot advises in his videos )
It's definitely harder, but still worth it imo. I'm working now and still picking up new skills, so it's never really too late. Just be financially responsible in any major transitions. 👍
i live in albania and the school system for CS its pretty bad so i have decided to skip university and just be self taught and go to courses i have learned java and spring boot so far and im looking into react as i know js aswell, html and css, tailwind framework hopefully it goes well
This video funny af, you talk about social skills pushing the sterotype
I am a freshmen in college going into cyber security. I have seen videos talking about the importance of getting an internship freshmen year but I am just starting out and wondering if it would be better to build up my skills or look for internship opportunity.
I have a question about networking in college. Where are you supposed to network? Through LinkedIn? Handshake? How does this process work?
You'll know! Just keep attending classes and talking to people (even the janitors), always look out for announcements for things like events, competitions, volunteering work, etc. I didn't believe it back then, but most opportunities are not posted on linkedin, they're presented to you in the most unexpected situations through people you'd have never guessed.
University won't bring you 100% of what you need, but it can bring the 20% you must have to start.
Hey, I'd like to hear more insights about your job if you have any. Things like the requirements and stuff. Thanks!
If you're already making games, avoid a study into making games. If you're interested in making games, start the study, decide if it's for you, then drop out and go your own way.
Greetings from; someone who made the wrong decisions and wasted a lot of time. If you're passionate enough, they're not gonna add to it.
Hope this simple comment might help someone else in the future someday. It might not apply to everyone, but that single person that needs it, keep going!
Could you talk more about your freelancing experience?
I might make a video on it some day
verry high quality video. Trust me man, if this was done with your face like most other video, but its not the main factor though, it would be more boring.
Did you feel the programming knowledge you learned for making games in python were enough to land you a job? Did you strictly learn just Python before your CS degree?
Where did you learn from please can yiu share resources
sir I learned all my coding knowledge, python c++ from internet but I think you need a college degree to get a job in a company like Google , what do you think?
Google doesn't require degrees
@@DaFluffyPotatoSo it should require radians then😂
1:15 foot jumpscare
Never thought I would see a Saxon math book again 😂
I'm a bit confused by your assessment that education standards will continue to decline post pandemic. Neither of the articles you cite seem to support that claim. The Axios article mentions that ACT scores have dipped post-pandemic. But standardized test scores have always been a poor proxy for how well students will perform in higher education. The NIH study shows that students have not yet caught back up on their learning, but I'd expect that to really mainly impact students immediately graduating high school. The younger the student, the more time they'll have to return to the baseline. But even beyond that, most universities have strict accreditation requirements. Short of the accreditation boards moving the goalposts, universities cannot lower their standards significantly without risking losing their accredited status.
I know teachers (plus many online say the same thing) who have mentioned things getting worse year after year in the academic level of their students. Presumably because having the pandemic at a younger age is more negatively impactful. I didn't look for studies on that since it's inherently speculation still.
As for university standards, I witnessed them being dropped in real time first hand. The curving I've seen makes a lot of classes an absolute joke in terms of academic standards.
How did you start learning computer science for you to enjoy it so much you start making videos and finally get a degree in it?
I got bored and just started learning it as I made things I wanted to make.
What is your fulltime job??(field)
I work on rocket flight simulations and embedded software that runs on rockets (aerospace).
@@DaFluffyPotatothat's very cool
2:00 bro called me dumb 20 time in too much ways :'(
4:00 40 rn...
You deserve a subscription for converting the school year to age for non Americans. Also great video of course.
Homeschoolers usually don't even know what grade they're in, so they go by age as a default (which is the same for me).
is there a way to skip general course in us?
you guys in the west you have no idea how great you have it. you should fight to keep it that way and better. don't let them destroyed what is good left there
Why would you want to work for a company if you can allready work freelancing?
I think a traditional CS degree is worth it, although incredibly frustrating because you only spend 2 years out of 4 doing CS. I’m in a 4 year pure CS program after giving up on a traditional program and it’s so much better. For anyone coming out of high school that’s all in on computer science, really try and find somewhere that doesn’t waste your time on poly Sci and biology and world languages.
thats kind of crazy that 2 years are general stuff, didnt know it was like that in the us. is this everywhere in the us or just the state of florida?
I quite like the holistic approach of education. Exposes me to different fields and gain transferable skills that I can combine and create something cool
When is the game coming out? (came here because of the title and stayed because of the game)
November (see the Steam page in the description)
dude, you made a whole game. You dont need to be working for nobody 😆
If it came to the point where you started questioning it, Then it wasn't worth it