This may be a beginners guide, but I want you to know that even someone like myself with over 500 hours in ksp can find something useful from these videos. Especially this one, never knew anything about setting up a triangulated network, and never even know what the interstage nodes did on the payload fairings. Thank you so much for these videos.
i nearly have 1700 hours, but I too can learn from it. I did know about all that from video watching, but never knew how to set up triangulated networks
this is a majestic network. getting back to my ksp addiction, it has been 2 nights of terrible sleep. I always end up watching your tutorials after failures. Thank you.
i guess im randomly asking but does anybody know of a way to log back into an Instagram account..? I was dumb forgot the login password. I would love any help you can give me
I just started playing but quickly saw what you mean. The "core mechanic" of the game is so deep that you can spend months figuring it out, AND THEN, you can properly be an astronaut, go to the outer worlds, and what not
I really like that you take your time explaining things and show video in real time. Very easy to understand. Out of everyone doing ksp videos I am surprised you don't have more followers.
I wish people would notice you even more. I really like your videos, I wish I knew about you when I started playing ksp. Your tutorials really help me in my career mode! You're really easy to understand, that's probably why I use your videos as reference on how to do things.
Your videos are incredible man. It's not just that you have a deep knowledge of the game, but you're able to deliver the material in an incredibly engaging way. Serious talent. Thank you!
Hi again, Thank you for making these excellent tutorials! Your clear and concise explanations have enabled me to get my head around the game's mechanics and possibilities in ways that the other tutorials have not. I'm able to take the knowledge you impart, apply it and come up with my own solutions. It makes the game so much more satisfying to play. Muchly appreciated.
I used two Oscar-B fuel tanks, spark engine and a jr docking port on each of my 3 relays. This allowed me to use them as my final stage to get into the phasing orbit. It also allowed me to professionally put them into their proper orbits using maneuvering nodes instead of finagling them out of a truss structure and essentially eyeballing it. Once mine are in phasing orbit, I stage all 3 of them apart using the jr dock staging and then set up all 3 maneuvering nodes to inject each into proper orbital position. The docking port also means they are serviceable in orbit. Paid no more than 10% more total cost than your method since I didn't have to build an extra stage. Boosters burn up over Kerbin. 2nd stage is aimed at the mun/minmus just before I release the final relay built stage, which is used to get into phasing orbit.
This tutorial helped so much getting my keostationary relay network set up. There are three probes that orbit at exactly the same altitude to the meter (you can thank MechJeb 2 for the precision)
Really glad to find this series, this video especially. I am just planning my own relay network around The Sun, hoping to connect my probes around Ike with Kerbin. Thanks for this!
This is great. I'm new to the game and was about to do my first mission to land on the Mun, but I think I'm going to delay that to set up a satellite network around the Mun to make sure my comms are solid for the big landing. Preparation is key!
Thanks for another awesome video Mike! Just launched 3x MA Sputniks strong to the Mun! (Mike Aben Sputnik). This is why I watch your videos! I always learn something new. I often wondered what altitude to start using my vacuum engines, I thought about using them in the 50k-70k range but because the TWR was so low I wasn't sure and I would just wait until 70k to be safe. Now I know that I'm losing out on 20k of altitude and it's totally okay to fire them at 50k! To a normal player this might seem immaterial but to a nerd and someone who's OCD about this game that's invaluable tidbits I get from your videos :-)
A tip when you're stacking stuff in fairings using the interstage nodes (5:00) is to use the duel sided decouplers (the ones with 2 arrows). That way when you decouple. The structure in the fairing disappears making is easier to move the payload.
I'm glad you said this! My first test launch resulted in... Explosive antennas... because I could deploy the first one fine but not anything after that. 😅
I also used to aim for perfect sync orbit, then, later in game just put around the planet / moon about 4 small satellites literally anywhere on a very random orbit to cover the body itself and 2 much powerful relays on a polar orbits. Huge apogee above north pole, pretty small perigee above south. That way, these big relays spent much time above north hemisphere and at least one of them is *almost* always visible from other planets / moons.
I miss having moments when things just click. Around 14:40 is when everything clicked, and I saw as to why you made things orbit a third from your main shuttle. God that is so smart
I want to add my appreciation for your outstanding videos. I am very later to the Kerbal party.. But this game is so addictive and fun. Your videos make learning the concepts very easy.
So I was having issues releasing my sats without mucking up the orbit. Initially I was trying to set them in retrograde, but using RCS to move fore changed my PE so I had to do equal (or more) thrust aft to correct the PE but by the time I correct the PE the satellite ran into my mothership. So I decided to give the normal deployment a try, because it would allow me to burn retrograde to circularize the sat and not blow up the mother ship or change its orbit. I wasn't sure at first if being normal would change the satellites orbit to be shifted by the height of the mothership, but then I looked in the map and you can't even see the difference in orbits. Thanks for the video, it did help much to get my first satellite network around kerbin. Mun and Minmus is next :)
Use a procedural fuel tank and make it any size. I even make hollow cylinder fuel tanks that can adjust the fuel amount by changing the inner diameter and then you also enclose the engine so it can couple better! If you want to use the hollow cylinder trick to make coupling on smaller engines easier, but need more fuel, you can also attach the procedural tank to a larger tank as well.
you are a saviour for my rover who kept on loosing comunication and you teached me how to make networks thank you so much so to repay you il give +1 like and +1 sub
I went to this approach but on two plains in some cases. The single plain sometimes doesn't work if you are right at a pole. If you put one plain as shown, equatorial, and a second plain in the polar direction then you have universal coverage. Prior to this solution I was inundating planets with 12-15 relays and it starts messing with the game when you get too much going on. I also found that I was needing to hit, for example, Eve, get all my research and exploration done, maybe leave one lander on the ground, one in space for contracts, and then deleting everything else so the game isn't bogged down before moving to the next planet. Good video.
Thanks, though just to point out you need more than three satellites for complete coverage 100% of the time. The minimum is four in a tetrahedral orientation, though that is a lot to set up. Easier is putting in three as shown here and then another three in a plane perpendicular to the first three. I'll also point out that the ground occultation is pretty generous.
@MikeAben It is. Not sure how you can get four into orbits without occasional gaps. It would have to be some configuration where the four are not in the same plain at all.
I have found that one polar and one equatorial relay around Minmus works for me. Both at around 500km high, I have never lost contact with any craft. I have seen your method before but am too chicken to try it!
A great video as always! I was wondering how long it would take for my setup to drift away so far that it would need reconfiguring, and well I found out that it will take a huge amount of time. I was skipping through years and nothing changed even a bit. It still works like a charm! and probably will for more then a few lifetimes! oh and many thanks for all your other videos aswell they really helped me to understand this game and to have alot of fun with it!!!
also install station keeping mod, after setting up the satellites on a circular orbit go to space center and click on your satellite and open the stationkeeping menu, then put in the major semi axis you currently have to make the orbit perfectly circular (do it to every satellite). now they will never drift away
Thank you so much. I have been trying to build networks the last few days with the biggest antennae i have to get to the out sun sync orbit for contract. didn't occur to me i needed the smallest antenaa
Thanks for this Mike have followed you tutorials and found them to be gold dust for this game, just tried this and everything went perfect until I got to releasing the probes ( I forgot to turn the ejection force for the separators) should get it right on the next flight.
With a lot of gamers showing off Dyson Sphere Program got me thinking about the application of the concept to KSP, to setup a solar orbit of several satellites. Thou the Dyson Sphere provides power, I think a solar array of relay communication satellites in KSP would be a challenge.
Since you can enable ground stations in the settings I didn't feel it was strictly necessary to build a geo stationary network. I used Google sheets guides to help me pick an appropriate antennas for each celestial body. (It's really useful and I believe it's a few years old by now). Also, like, once the electric engine is unlocked (the combination of fuel cell, a little bit of fuel and xenon gas) that all I used to move my satelites to other places.
I agree. There's no need for keostationary satellites unless you turn if ground stations. Is this the spreadsheet you're referring to. If it is, then yeah, it's pretty awesome. docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1qIgFB8OXnlgpPCGsxv7JYUYQq5O671IcZXpumVaStek/edit?usp=drivesdk
@@Bendigo1 I wish there was a slider in the settings for the number of ground stations. Three or four would give some blackout areas in low orbit while still providing incentive for some Kerbin communication satellites.
Yeah, it's awesome, if you're willing to use mods there's also the Antenna Helper mod which provides the same calculations in-game which means it'll automatically picks up what antennas you currently have on the spacecraft and applicable range modifiers (if playing on harder settings) which simplifies "will it reach Kerbin" (or a another relay) part slightly. The most valuable tip I've gotten from Mike Aben with regards to relays is "ignore Pe/Ap, the period is what matters" (unless it's really far off). This is because drift actually only cares about period which means that as long as you don't put the relay satellites close to the lower altitude limit (same as the diameter of the body) and the period of all the satellites are really close to each other the constellation will last a very long time without intervention. This really changed how I do my relay networks, my relay satellites drift a lot loss now than when I tried to get the relays into circular orbits with the correct altitude, it just never ended up with close enough periods, the "match period" is both easier and far more precise. This usually didn't actually matter because I tend to get to bigger relays long before drift matters (before I'm done with Minmus) and once you have bigger relays you can put them much further out from the body and still connect via a C-16 and drift pretty much ceases to be an issue (extra altitude means the drift is much slower *and* the margins bigger) but the OCD part of me really appreciates the neat 120-degree separation.
Around 7:49 seconds how you can see your future flight plan near minmus itself, for some reason that is gone for me. All I can see is my flight path with the future position of minmus. Please help how do I get it back!
This perfect alignment makes me cry :-D ...I didn´t know there is phase angle or the trick with the 2/3 or 4/3. I manualy calculatet everything with math....
i just installed a 4 satellite relay network in the kerbin system just on the boundary of kerbin escape at 73Mm. This covers the entirety of the dark side of both moons and should reach out pretty far into the kerbol system.. thinking of blowing up all the useless satellites the game gave me, to repair, to clear up clutter.. currently trying to find out what the distance ratings on the relays mean so i know how far out they go and thinking of jumping on another relay network outside plock to cover the entirety of the kerbol system before i do any interplanetary missions.. i HATE dropouts on the dark side when i schedule maneuvers and lose contact.. maybe i can cover the entire kerbol system with only 8 satellites total... i guess i should get started now because those outer ones will take 10 years to get out there?
This is sort of unrelated, but also the only spot I've seen you mention it. I put a rover I created into a ferring, and then in that ferring I put a stack separator, but I used the option in the separator to create the sort of scaffolding metal structure that you're using to hold up all your probes here. Yet when I arrived on the mun and landed my craft on its side to allow the rover to drive off, when I activated the separator (I did double check that it is a separator, not a decoupler) the platform didn't disappear, and now my rover is stuck inside the scaffolding thingy. What did I do wrong?
Have I been doing this inefficiently? I have a similar setup, but the "carrier" has the ability to talk back to Kerbin too, and then two small sats. I have also put 3 small sats, and a lander on the "carrier". I put the small sats in triangle orbit, park the (short range antennaed) carrier somewhere up there (usually in the phasing orbit) then land the lander, turn on seismic recording, and THEN de-orbit the "carrier". (extra science for recording the impact.)
What is the purpose of the FL-AS Adapter you used @3:00 ? Is it mainly for aesthetics or would it not work otherwise? It seemed to lower your DV a little.
Hi, hell of a tuto, thanks man. Although I did the exact same thing (different build, not the same antenna), and my satellites aren't relaying with each other. When one goes behind Minmus, he loses contact with Kerbin and don't relay network to the 2 remaining ones. Any idea why ? My science lab based on Minmus can't transmit science when he's not facing Kerbin, which was why I decided to add satellites..
Quick question! When you decouple the relays, does that small sideways thrust to move it away from the delivery vehicle change much of the orbit as you put them in to position or later on in the game after many many time warps? Or did I have the perspective wrong and you were just slightly moving the delivery vehicle away after you decoupled? Really been enjoying your videos lately. I played KSP waaay back in the day and finding these tutorials as I get back in to it years later has really brought me a long way.
A can a little bit, but it is easy to correct for. You can also puff away in the direction you have to burn anyway, retrograde in this circumstance. You'll never get the orbits perfect. Even if the periods are all within the nearest second, there will still be some drift, though it won't be apparent for a few game years. If you're concerned, you can find the relays in the save file and change their periods to exactly what they need to be.
I'm making a relay cloud around Kerbol from Moho to Duna, using only triple 2G relay satellites. I want to fill in the space well enough so that there are sporadic connections through the space, with each satellite at a different roughly circular orbit, and with only a level 1 tracking station, as the giant one fills in way too much space. Do the 500m relays still have the c of 1 or was that the direct one, as the triple 2G's range is too small and it would take insane numbers of them to cover the area well enough.
If you get angry about orbital drift, do the following: Name your sats: Sat 1, Sat 2, Sat 3 save and quit go edit your persistant save file by: Copying the SMA of sat 1 and then replacing the SMA values of sat 2 and 3 with the one you just got.
Nice idea. I wish I thought of that before leaving my Mun Relays to their own devices for ten years in my stream. Still, they didn't drift as much as I would have expected.
@@MikeAben In all honesty however, I didn't come up with this, I got it from this guide here, at the very bottom. remotetechnologiesgroup.github.io/RemoteTech/tutorials/keo/
I love this but I really really hate that you didn't mention the decoupler force reduction until you were launching probes... I had a PERFECT orbit going along with you and had to revert to turn the damn decouplers down
@@MikeAben Thanks for the reply man, does it differ from each moon/planet? Thanks for the tutorials as well mate on day 3 of ksp, unmanned landing on minmus and moon landing a return thanks to your vids, this is my next challenge
how can i figgure out the orbit height that i need for that to work for each planet? i want this for duna so i can communicate with the rover down there at all times
It's largely a personal choice, though I know 3 hours works well around the Mun. I have a math video on the topic if you happen to be interested. th-cam.com/video/gpQmvwU1x8c/w-d-xo.htmlsi=TZ2dl8lcMRQ5Sf-_
It would help to know when you lose communications, but a few things come to mind. 1) Your craft has run out of electricity. 2) You forgot to extend an antenna. 3) You have ground stations turned off in the game settings and the KSC is on the other side of the planet.
Great video but I have a question. When you rerouted it to the decoupler, you then dragged it by the engine into the sub assembly. Then on the fairing you attached a new decoupler, and when adding back in the subassembly there was no decoupler already present... Was that a goof or how one should do this? Thank you.
Nope that's the way it works. By making the decoupler the root part and grabbing the engine, the decouple stays behind but the bottom of the engine becomes the active attachment node. If I wanted the decoupler to be part of the subassemby, I would have to attach something to it, make that the root part, and then grab by the decoupler. It's a little weird, but you get used to it. That decoupler could have been any part. Perhaps I could have made things more clear by using a different part.
@@MikeAben Thank you a lot for your videos. I have a question about the build too : Do you know how the second fairing (the one under the spark engine) does not appear in the staging ? (nor in the video, nor using the .craft file)
@@tanakaox5023 It looks like a disabled the staging. This can be done in the VAB through the part tweak menu. It's a nice way to create a cowling around the engine.
@@MikeAben Thank you ! I confirm that's it. To disable the staging of a part (here fairing), you must first enable Advanced Tweakables from the settings : imgur.com/TZpyS3r Then in the VAB, a new option will appear in the fairing's menu : Fairing Staged VS Fairing Not Staged, as explained here : gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/184708/how-can-i-prevent-a-part-from-being-added-to-any-stage
When I add a decoupler below the spark engine the engine shroud matches the size of the engine rather than the rocket circumference. How did you get it to match?
As far as I know, you can't. The best you can do is remove the shroud by right clicking the engine in the VAB, or building your own shroud using a fairing. There's a mod called Decoupler Shroud which likely does what you want if you want to go that route.
Make sure none of the parts are clipping together. Remounting the satellite on the decoupler may help. Use Alt-F12 to access the cheat menu and put yourself in orbit to test deployment.
Hi Mike, thanks again for your great videos! I want to build a similar relay rocket, but I can only place 2 relays on each other instead of 3. Do you have an idea?
@@Michael-zm2hv That's possible, especially with the 1.25m fairing. The ones in this video just fit. Remember, the relays hardly need any fuel. I just used a single dumpling fuel tank that I translated halfway into the probe core. You can even make it smaller using monoprop. The smallest moboprop tank, and then the linear RCS port for propulsion, is gonna be a pretty small probe.
That is definitely an option I've used. I'm not sure why I decided not to got that way here. I just may have not wanted to talk about it and focus on the mechanics.
quick question, is there any advantage to not having all lower thrusters go off at once? cus when i set up a rocket i always have boosters and main engine go at once.
Depends on the engines. You want the minimum engine mass to give you the trust you need but often, especially with smaller rockets and SRBs, you get so much thrust from the radial boosters you might as well save the later stage engine.
@@mrkitkat0069 I just took a closer look at this rocket and noticed I had a Terrier for that central core engine. The Terrier is very inefficient at sea level and definitely shouldn't be lit until the air is much thinner.
The drift probably doesn't matter, as long as the relays are within range of each other and the surface of minmus at all times it'll always work, even if they were almost randomly scattered, course it's prettier when it's all perfect and all and ensures full coverage of the planet.
Insterstage thingy is not really working out for me, I tried to stack up on each other, just like you, 3 satelites and its just isn't attachting properly. The satelites are kinda bigger so idk if thats the problem but it's driving me crazy.
I'm not sure what the problem may be, but there is a Toggle Interstage Nodes button in the fairing context menu. It should be on to attach to the interstage, but you sometimes get a lot of nodes close together and turning it off helps with that.
It could be the satellite is bouncing between the node below and the node above. Try attaching something simple, like a decouple, to the node. Turn the nodes off, and then attach to the decouple.
At first I was a big fan of this method. But it is just impossible to space them perfectly, and even the smallest error will multiply as we progress in game. Can you please think of another way?
It takes a few game years before drift will be a problem, but a suggestion did come up in a comment that I'm starting to take advantage of. Period is a function of the semi-major axis of the orbit. If two orbits have the same semi-major axis then they'll have the same period. Go into the persistent save file. Search through it for your relays. Find the SMA (semi-major axis) for one of the relays. Copy paste that number in for the SMA of the other relays. The relays now have the same period to a great deal of accuracy. You can probably do this through the cheat menu too.
Sounds like you may have run out of electricity. You have to make sure the solar panels are being exposed to the sun. That, or the antennas weren't raised, or you just dipped into Minmus' communication shadow.
I just wish the game would explain stuff like this. Where did you get the 12 hours from? I don´t get that part. Is it like a universal value or something? Isn´t there like an easy way to get those numbers? Sometimes I hate the game for not explaining shit...
@@MikeAben Just finished everything in the video! Your instructions were great, and it feels awesome to have a sweet relay network over minmus. Thank you!
Im an idiot and just throw the relays anywhere where I think would reach and call it a day, I have more than 10 Relays in the SOI of Kerbin and have 3 in the Mun, in a fashion not how you explained it in this video.
If you are talking relays, they kinda do. KSP2 doesn't distinguish between direct antennas and relays, but my understanding is that all the antennas will act as relays when it's called for.
This is the friendliest ksp tutorial i've ever seen, it's like watching Bob Ross launching satellites into space.
I would have loved to see him do that.
True
This may be a beginners guide, but I want you to know that even someone like myself with over 500 hours in ksp can find something useful from these videos. Especially this one, never knew anything about setting up a triangulated network, and never even know what the interstage nodes did on the payload fairings. Thank you so much for these videos.
i nearly have 1700 hours, but I too can learn from it. I did know about all that from video watching, but never knew how to set up triangulated networks
Bro, its in the name, this is "KSP (Not) Beginner's Guide"
Title specifically says NOT a beginner's guide
well as a beginner I fount it extremely helpfun and learn a lot of new stuff 👍
exact same sitch here
this is a majestic network. getting back to my ksp addiction, it has been 2 nights of terrible sleep. I always end up watching your tutorials after failures. Thank you.
Your tutorials are exactly what I needed years back. It feels like a new game now that I know what I'm doing!
Agreed. So much better when you understand
i guess im randomly asking but does anybody know of a way to log back into an Instagram account..?
I was dumb forgot the login password. I would love any help you can give me
@Everett Ira Instablaster ;)
I just started playing but quickly saw what you mean. The "core mechanic" of the game is so deep that you can spend months figuring it out, AND THEN, you can properly be an astronaut, go to the outer worlds, and what not
Tell me about it man, I used to build rockets that dwarfed the Saturn V just to get into kerbins orbit.
I really like that you take your time explaining things and show video in real time. Very easy to understand. Out of everyone doing ksp videos I am surprised you don't have more followers.
I'm still growing. Hopefully, you found me early.
I wish people would notice you even more. I really like your videos, I wish I knew about you when I started playing ksp. Your tutorials really help me in my career mode! You're really easy to understand, that's probably why I use your videos as reference on how to do things.
It’s nice that he shows the videos for like “best orbit” and more to fill in anything people may not know.
Your videos are incredible man. It's not just that you have a deep knowledge of the game, but you're able to deliver the material in an incredibly engaging way. Serious talent. Thank you!
Thanks. I'm glad you're enjoying them.
Had this game for 4 years on steam. Just getting back to it after rage quitting. This really helps keep me motivated now.
Hi again,
Thank you for making these excellent tutorials! Your clear and concise explanations have enabled me to get my head around the game's mechanics and possibilities in ways that the other tutorials have not.
I'm able to take the knowledge you impart, apply it and come up with my own solutions. It makes the game so much more satisfying to play.
Muchly appreciated.
I used two Oscar-B fuel tanks, spark engine and a jr docking port on each of my 3 relays. This allowed me to use them as my final stage to get into the phasing orbit. It also allowed me to professionally put them into their proper orbits using maneuvering nodes instead of finagling them out of a truss structure and essentially eyeballing it. Once mine are in phasing orbit, I stage all 3 of them apart using the jr dock staging and then set up all 3 maneuvering nodes to inject each into proper orbital position. The docking port also means they are serviceable in orbit. Paid no more than 10% more total cost than your method since I didn't have to build an extra stage. Boosters burn up over Kerbin. 2nd stage is aimed at the mun/minmus just before I release the final relay built stage, which is used to get into phasing orbit.
This is the coolest design for a rocket ive seen. Like just the whole things is perfect
Oh my god thank you I never knew how to get the Interstage fairings
This tutorial helped so much getting my keostationary relay network set up. There are three probes that orbit at exactly the same altitude to the meter (you can thank MechJeb 2 for the precision)
been playing ksp since 0.21 and these guides still provide me with some neat ideas and tips, great stuff
Really glad to find this series, this video especially. I am just planning my own relay network around The Sun, hoping to connect my probes around Ike with Kerbin. Thanks for this!
This is great. I'm new to the game and was about to do my first mission to land on the Mun, but I think I'm going to delay that to set up a satellite network around the Mun to make sure my comms are solid for the big landing. Preparation is key!
here is another way: strap a probe core and relay dishes to all your booster stages so they actually serve a purpose other than being junk
The recycler’s way.
Your videos are extremely helpful it make KSP so much more fun and easier! Keep up great work!
Mike, thanks so much for making these amazing videos. You've taught this new player so much!
Adding two geostationary satellites above the poles would be the cherry on top. Great guide!
Rotating a planet, on 2 different axis at the same time, is a good way of summoning the Kraken...
Thanks for another awesome video Mike! Just launched 3x MA Sputniks strong to the Mun! (Mike Aben Sputnik). This is why I watch your videos! I always learn something new. I often wondered what altitude to start using my vacuum engines, I thought about using them in the 50k-70k range but because the TWR was so low I wasn't sure and I would just wait until 70k to be safe. Now I know that I'm losing out on 20k of altitude and it's totally okay to fire them at 50k! To a normal player this might seem immaterial but to a nerd and someone who's OCD about this game that's invaluable tidbits I get from your videos :-)
The atmospheric pressure guage is a pretty good indicator. When it's into the final bar, it's much closer to vacuum than not.
A tip when you're stacking stuff in fairings using the interstage nodes (5:00) is to use the duel sided decouplers (the ones with 2 arrows). That way when you decouple. The structure in the fairing disappears making is easier to move the payload.
I'm glad you said this! My first test launch resulted in... Explosive antennas... because I could deploy the first one fine but not anything after that. 😅
I also used to aim for perfect sync orbit, then, later in game just put around the planet / moon about 4 small satellites literally anywhere on a very random orbit to cover the body itself and 2 much powerful relays on a polar orbits. Huge apogee above north pole, pretty small perigee above south. That way, these big relays spent much time above north hemisphere and at least one of them is *almost* always visible from other planets / moons.
I miss having moments when things just click. Around 14:40 is when everything clicked, and I saw as to why you made things orbit a third from your main shuttle.
God that is so smart
I genuinely feel like i cant do this but thanks to your explanation i might just have a chance of making it. Great tutorial :)
I want to add my appreciation for your outstanding videos. I am very later to the Kerbal party.. But this game is so addictive and fun. Your videos make learning the concepts very easy.
So I was having issues releasing my sats without mucking up the orbit. Initially I was trying to set them in retrograde, but using RCS to move fore changed my PE so I had to do equal (or more) thrust aft to correct the PE but by the time I correct the PE the satellite ran into my mothership. So I decided to give the normal deployment a try, because it would allow me to burn retrograde to circularize the sat and not blow up the mother ship or change its orbit. I wasn't sure at first if being normal would change the satellites orbit to be shifted by the height of the mothership, but then I looked in the map and you can't even see the difference in orbits. Thanks for the video, it did help much to get my first satellite network around kerbin. Mun and Minmus is next :)
HEY!!! thanks man.... i got 2 angles 115.6 and 119.9 around mun. this is great.
Use a procedural fuel tank and make it any size. I even make hollow cylinder fuel tanks that can adjust the fuel amount by changing the inner diameter and then you also enclose the engine so it can couple better! If you want to use the hollow cylinder trick to make coupling on smaller engines easier, but need more fuel, you can also attach the procedural tank to a larger tank as well.
Good ideas, but this series is deliberately mod free.
@@MikeAben The engineer in me likes to keep it simple but the kid likes toys! ;-)
Great tutorials for both new and experienced players. Thank you very much for your content! Keep up the good work!
you are a saviour for my rover who kept on loosing comunication and you teached me how to make networks thank you so much so to repay you il give +1 like and +1 sub
I have 200 hours in KSP and I learned at least ten new things from this video.
personally using the mod that helps with a computer for launch control, as i just like setting up sat networks etc. But your videos are so helpfull :)
cool. great tutorial
I accidentally hit dislike when I turned my phone sideways, but changed it back right away. I actually love your videos thank you!
Very well explained. You’re a great communicator - thanks.
I went to this approach but on two plains in some cases. The single plain sometimes doesn't work if you are right at a pole. If you put one plain as shown, equatorial, and a second plain in the polar direction then you have universal coverage. Prior to this solution I was inundating planets with 12-15 relays and it starts messing with the game when you get too much going on. I also found that I was needing to hit, for example, Eve, get all my research and exploration done, maybe leave one lander on the ground, one in space for contracts, and then deleting everything else so the game isn't bogged down before moving to the next planet. Good video.
Thanks, though just to point out you need more than three satellites for complete coverage 100% of the time. The minimum is four in a tetrahedral orientation, though that is a lot to set up. Easier is putting in three as shown here and then another three in a plane perpendicular to the first three. I'll also point out that the ground occultation is pretty generous.
@MikeAben It is. Not sure how you can get four into orbits without occasional gaps. It would have to be some configuration where the four are not in the same plain at all.
@JenkinsStevenD Yes, all four are orbiting in different planes.
Excellent video, tutorial and how to video. I follow you a lot. Keep it going, you are amazing!
I have found that one polar and one equatorial relay around Minmus works for me. Both at around 500km high, I have never lost contact with any craft. I have seen your method before but am too chicken to try it!
Haha, I’ve been playing this game since before release but these still help :)
Thank you!!
Wow, thank you so much, Mike 👍.
I knew that everything I learned in highschool during physics and math class would come in handy someday xD.
A great video as always! I was wondering how long it would take for my setup to drift away so far that it would need reconfiguring, and well I found out that it will take a huge amount of time. I was skipping through years and nothing changed even a bit. It still works like a charm! and probably will for more then a few lifetimes! oh and many thanks for all your other videos aswell they really helped me to understand this game and to have alot of fun with it!!!
also install station keeping mod, after setting up the satellites on a circular orbit go to space center and click on your satellite and open the stationkeeping menu, then put in the major semi axis you currently have to make the orbit perfectly circular (do it to every satellite). now they will never drift away
This is easy to do by editing the save for those that may not want to install the mod.
This is awesome thanks dude. Great stuff. Subscribed for sure
I was just thinking about making a relay network, thanks!
Thank you so much. I have been trying to build networks the last few days with the biggest antennae i have to get to the out sun sync orbit for contract. didn't occur to me i needed the smallest antenaa
Thanks for this Mike have followed you tutorials and found them to be gold dust for this game, just tried this and everything went perfect until I got to releasing the probes ( I forgot to turn the ejection force for the separators) should get it right on the next flight.
I've done the same.
With a lot of gamers showing off Dyson Sphere Program got me thinking about the application of the concept to KSP, to setup a solar orbit of several satellites. Thou the Dyson Sphere provides power, I think a solar array of relay communication satellites in KSP would be a challenge.
The Kerbal Interstellar mod provides antennas to transmit power. There are likely others. You could build a functional Dyson swarm with them.
Since you can enable ground stations in the settings I didn't feel it was strictly necessary to build a geo stationary network. I used Google sheets guides to help me pick an appropriate antennas for each celestial body. (It's really useful and I believe it's a few years old by now).
Also, like, once the electric engine is unlocked (the combination of fuel cell, a little bit of fuel and xenon gas) that all I used to move my satelites to other places.
I agree. There's no need for keostationary satellites unless you turn if ground stations. Is this the spreadsheet you're referring to. If it is, then yeah, it's pretty awesome.
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1qIgFB8OXnlgpPCGsxv7JYUYQq5O671IcZXpumVaStek/edit?usp=drivesdk
Having only one ground station just adds an extra challenge for those strange people that like to just make things harder on themselves...😁
@@Bendigo1 I wish there was a slider in the settings for the number of ground stations. Three or four would give some blackout areas in low orbit while still providing incentive for some Kerbin communication satellites.
@@MikeAben yes, that would be great. That is a good idea for a mod maker to consider.
Yeah, it's awesome, if you're willing to use mods there's also the Antenna Helper mod which provides the same calculations in-game which means it'll automatically picks up what antennas you currently have on the spacecraft and applicable range modifiers (if playing on harder settings) which simplifies "will it reach Kerbin" (or a another relay) part slightly.
The most valuable tip I've gotten from Mike Aben with regards to relays is "ignore Pe/Ap, the period is what matters" (unless it's really far off). This is because drift actually only cares about period which means that as long as you don't put the relay satellites close to the lower altitude limit (same as the diameter of the body) and the period of all the satellites are really close to each other the constellation will last a very long time without intervention.
This really changed how I do my relay networks, my relay satellites drift a lot loss now than when I tried to get the relays into circular orbits with the correct altitude, it just never ended up with close enough periods, the "match period" is both easier and far more precise. This usually didn't actually matter because I tend to get to bigger relays long before drift matters (before I'm done with Minmus) and once you have bigger relays you can put them much further out from the body and still connect via a C-16 and drift pretty much ceases to be an issue (extra altitude means the drift is much slower *and* the margins bigger) but the OCD part of me really appreciates the neat 120-degree separation.
Around 7:49 seconds how you can see your future flight plan near minmus itself, for some reason that is gone for me. All I can see is my flight path with the future position of minmus. Please help how do I get it back!
Check your settings. I can't remember what it is called, but there is something on how the flight conics are displayed.
Thank you for the entertainment!
perfect delivery
This perfect alignment makes me cry :-D ...I didn´t know there is phase angle or the trick with the 2/3 or 4/3. I manualy calculatet everything with math....
Love your videos, but your "easy way" has more precise maneuvering than anything I have ever done in KSP at any point ;-)
i just installed a 4 satellite relay network in the kerbin system just on the boundary of kerbin escape at 73Mm. This covers the entirety of the dark side of both moons and should reach out pretty far into the kerbol system.. thinking of blowing up all the useless satellites the game gave me, to repair, to clear up clutter.. currently trying to find out what the distance ratings on the relays mean so i know how far out they go and thinking of jumping on another relay network outside plock to cover the entirety of the kerbol system before i do any interplanetary missions.. i HATE dropouts on the dark side when i schedule maneuvers and lose contact.. maybe i can cover the entire kerbol system with only 8 satellites total... i guess i should get started now because those outer ones will take 10 years to get out there?
This is sort of unrelated, but also the only spot I've seen you mention it. I put a rover I created into a ferring, and then in that ferring I put a stack separator, but I used the option in the separator to create the sort of scaffolding metal structure that you're using to hold up all your probes here. Yet when I arrived on the mun and landed my craft on its side to allow the rover to drive off, when I activated the separator (I did double check that it is a separator, not a decoupler) the platform didn't disappear, and now my rover is stuck inside the scaffolding thingy. What did I do wrong?
I don't believe the scaffolding disappears right away, but I think it will when the vessel is rerendered. Try going back to the vessel again.
Have I been doing this inefficiently? I have a similar setup, but the "carrier" has the ability to talk back to Kerbin too, and then two small sats. I have also put 3 small sats, and a lander on the "carrier". I put the small sats in triangle orbit, park the (short range antennaed) carrier somewhere up there (usually in the phasing orbit) then land the lander, turn on seismic recording, and THEN de-orbit the "carrier". (extra science for recording the impact.)
Nothing wrong with combining functions like that.
What is the purpose of the FL-AS Adapter you used @3:00 ? Is it mainly for aesthetics or would it not work otherwise? It seemed to lower your DV a little.
It's aesthetic.
Hi, hell of a tuto, thanks man. Although I did the exact same thing (different build, not the same antenna), and my satellites aren't relaying with each other. When one goes behind Minmus, he loses contact with Kerbin and don't relay network to the 2 remaining ones. Any idea why ? My science lab based on Minmus can't transmit science when he's not facing Kerbin, which was why I decided to add satellites..
Ok.. So if anyone else want the solution : there are Straight antennas and Relay antennas, pay attention to the type of antenna ;)
My bad :]
Quick question! When you decouple the relays, does that small sideways thrust to move it away from the delivery vehicle change much of the orbit as you put them in to position or later on in the game after many many time warps? Or did I have the perspective wrong and you were just slightly moving the delivery vehicle away after you decoupled? Really been enjoying your videos lately. I played KSP waaay back in the day and finding these tutorials as I get back in to it years later has really brought me a long way.
A can a little bit, but it is easy to correct for. You can also puff away in the direction you have to burn anyway, retrograde in this circumstance.
You'll never get the orbits perfect. Even if the periods are all within the nearest second, there will still be some drift, though it won't be apparent for a few game years. If you're concerned, you can find the relays in the save file and change their periods to exactly what they need to be.
@@MikeAben Thanks for the swift reply. These tutorials have gotten me further in the game than I ever did before!
I'm making a relay cloud around Kerbol from Moho to Duna, using only triple 2G relay satellites. I want to fill in the space well enough so that there are sporadic connections through the space, with each satellite at a different roughly circular orbit, and with only a level 1 tracking station, as the giant one fills in way too much space. Do the 500m relays still have the c of 1 or was that the direct one, as the triple 2G's range is too small and it would take insane numbers of them to cover the area well enough.
Lol I would have slammed final orbit then just detach by eyballing 1/3. Good job
Great vid. But the thought of doing this without Kerbal Engineer makes me break out into a cold sweat :)
maybe i missed it but how did you come up with the altitude off 377,035 to give you the correct orbital period without first using a maneuver node??
There's a video where I work that out the math. The link is in the video.
Brilliant. Very clever
wow, and i thought making and getting relays into orbit would be hard!
If you get angry about orbital drift, do the following:
Name your sats: Sat 1, Sat 2, Sat 3
save and quit
go edit your persistant save file by:
Copying the SMA of sat 1 and then
replacing the SMA values of sat 2 and 3 with the one you just got.
Nice idea. I wish I thought of that before leaving my Mun Relays to their own devices for ten years in my stream. Still, they didn't drift as much as I would have expected.
@@MikeAben well thank you!
@@MikeAben In all honesty however, I didn't come up with this, I got it from this guide here, at the very bottom. remotetechnologiesgroup.github.io/RemoteTech/tutorials/keo/
I love this but I really really hate that you didn't mention the decoupler force reduction until you were launching probes... I had a PERFECT orbit going along with you and had to revert to turn the damn decouplers down
If aiming for minmus what should the inclination be?
Minmus' orbit is inclined at 6 degrees.
@@MikeAben Thanks for the reply man, does it differ from each moon/planet? Thanks for the tutorials as well mate on day 3 of ksp, unmanned landing on minmus and moon landing a return thanks to your vids, this is my next challenge
how can i figgure out the orbit height that i need for that to work for each planet? i want this for duna so i can communicate with the rover down there at all times
I talk about that in my Best Relay Orbit video. There's a link under the info tab.
would the 377KM A/P be that way for every planet or is this specific to Minmus?
That is a good altitude for Minmus. If you look under the info tab there's a video on how to pick a good orbit around other bodies.
How do I know my target period before launch?
It's largely a personal choice, though I know 3 hours works well around the Mun. I have a math video on the topic if you happen to be interested.
th-cam.com/video/gpQmvwU1x8c/w-d-xo.htmlsi=TZ2dl8lcMRQ5Sf-_
@MikeAben Thanks for the response on an older vid!
Why not using 5/3 of 12 hours orbit? It seems to do the job equally well and is even cheaper.
That'll work. 4/3 is another.
i cant turn on the sub assembly nodes :(
Hi!
I do it like you do, accurately much as i can, but when my rocket leave kerbin, lost communication and i can't control it. Can anybody help me?
It would help to know when you lose communications, but a few things come to mind. 1) Your craft has run out of electricity. 2) You forgot to extend an antenna. 3) You have ground stations turned off in the game settings and the KSC is on the other side of the planet.
how did you change control to the relay satellites? my control stays on the ascent vehicle
Square brackets [ or ]
Great video but I have a question. When you rerouted it to the decoupler, you then dragged it by the engine into the sub assembly. Then on the fairing you attached a new decoupler, and when adding back in the subassembly there was no decoupler already present...
Was that a goof or how one should do this?
Thank you.
Nope that's the way it works. By making the decoupler the root part and grabbing the engine, the decouple stays behind but the bottom of the engine becomes the active attachment node. If I wanted the decoupler to be part of the subassemby, I would have to attach something to it, make that the root part, and then grab by the decoupler.
It's a little weird, but you get used to it. That decoupler could have been any part. Perhaps I could have made things more clear by using a different part.
@@MikeAben thank you for the explanation; I'll try it out.
@@MikeAben Thank you a lot for your videos. I have a question about the build too : Do you know how the second fairing (the one under the spark engine) does not appear in the staging ? (nor in the video, nor using the .craft file)
@@tanakaox5023 It looks like a disabled the staging. This can be done in the VAB through the part tweak menu. It's a nice way to create a cowling around the engine.
@@MikeAben Thank you ! I confirm that's it.
To disable the staging of a part (here fairing), you must first enable Advanced Tweakables from the settings :
imgur.com/TZpyS3r
Then in the VAB, a new option will appear in the fairing's menu : Fairing Staged VS Fairing Not Staged, as explained here :
gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/184708/how-can-i-prevent-a-part-from-being-added-to-any-stage
When I add a decoupler below the spark engine the engine shroud matches the size of the engine rather than the rocket circumference. How did you get it to match?
As far as I know, you can't. The best you can do is remove the shroud by right clicking the engine in the VAB, or building your own shroud using a fairing. There's a mod called Decoupler Shroud which likely does what you want if you want to go that route.
@@MikeAben Cool, a fairing works well enough.
'Making History' DLC also has engine plates that do this and act as a decoupler but they are a bit long.
I'm trying to get this to work but my satilites don't deploy, they are stuck together with the fairing structure
Make sure none of the parts are clipping together. Remounting the satellite on the decoupler may help. Use Alt-F12 to access the cheat menu and put yourself in orbit to test deployment.
@@MikeAben it's like I can't get the separator to attach the satilite and the fairing together. There is always a gap.
@Mike Aben and thank you for the reply, I wasn't sure I would get one since it was an older video LOL.
Hi Mike, thanks again for your great videos!
I want to build a similar relay rocket, but I can only place 2 relays on each other instead of 3. Do you have an idea?
You could put a couple of relay antenna on the carrier and have that be the third relay.
@@MikeAben Ok thanks. Is it possible that the satellites are too big so that the fairing's maximum height is exceeded?
@@Michael-zm2hv That's possible, especially with the 1.25m fairing. The ones in this video just fit. Remember, the relays hardly need any fuel. I just used a single dumpling fuel tank that I translated halfway into the probe core. You can even make it smaller using monoprop. The smallest moboprop tank, and then the linear RCS port for propulsion, is gonna be a pretty small probe.
@@MikeAben Ok thanks. The fuel requirements between a Mun and Duna orbit are technically the same, right? So ~100 Delta-V are still enough?
If you need so little delta V per satellite, why just not using monoprop thrusters? I believe they are lighter.
That is definitely an option I've used. I'm not sure why I decided not to got that way here. I just may have not wanted to talk about it and focus on the mechanics.
what's with the cargo bay?
You put stuff in it.
@@MikeAben I know that, but why did you have it installed with a relay probe inside?
@@MixelFan95 That probe body wasn't a relay. It was for the carrier vessel. It also held some batteries, solar panels, and an antenna.
@@MikeAben oh ok
quick question, is there any advantage to not having all lower thrusters go off at once? cus when i set up a rocket i always have boosters and main engine go at once.
Depends on the engines. You want the minimum engine mass to give you the trust you need but often, especially with smaller rockets and SRBs, you get so much thrust from the radial boosters you might as well save the later stage engine.
@@MikeAben thanks, ill keep this in mind
@@mrkitkat0069 I just took a closer look at this rocket and noticed I had a Terrier for that central core engine. The Terrier is very inefficient at sea level and definitely shouldn't be lit until the air is much thinner.
@@MikeAben ok then, thanks for the help!
What is the payload weight vs what is the rocket cost ? -- Looks like quite inefficient design
The drift probably doesn't matter, as long as the relays are within range of each other and the surface of minmus at all times it'll always work, even if they were almost randomly scattered, course it's prettier when it's all perfect and all and ensures full coverage of the planet.
Insterstage thingy is not really working out for me, I tried to stack up on each other, just like you, 3 satelites and its just isn't attachting properly. The satelites are kinda bigger so idk if thats the problem but it's driving me crazy.
I'm not sure what the problem may be, but there is a Toggle Interstage Nodes button in the fairing context menu. It should be on to attach to the interstage, but you sometimes get a lot of nodes close together and turning it off helps with that.
It could be the satellite is bouncing between the node below and the node above. Try attaching something simple, like a decouple, to the node. Turn the nodes off, and then attach to the decouple.
@@MikeAben helped out, thanks
At first I was a big fan of this method. But it is just impossible to space them perfectly, and even the smallest error will multiply as we progress in game. Can you please think of another way?
It takes a few game years before drift will be a problem, but a suggestion did come up in a comment that I'm starting to take advantage of.
Period is a function of the semi-major axis of the orbit. If two orbits have the same semi-major axis then they'll have the same period. Go into the persistent save file. Search through it for your relays. Find the SMA (semi-major axis) for one of the relays. Copy paste that number in for the SMA of the other relays. The relays now have the same period to a great deal of accuracy. You can probably do this through the cheat menu too.
does it work at kerbin ?
Sure, though you should likely modify the period of the relay orbits. Keostationary works nicely with a period of 6 hours.
@@MikeAben how do i know the altitude for a 6 hours period ?
@@b.h9186 It's 2863.334 km. I have a video on how to calculate this yourself here.
th-cam.com/video/xNiFcI-fcmA/w-d-xo.html
The wiki says 600km why did you choose half that?
I gave the reason in the video, what's the reason the wiki gave?
Hm my satellites lose control as soon as i decouple. Hat to use cheats to restore control.
Sounds like you may have run out of electricity. You have to make sure the solar panels are being exposed to the sun. That, or the antennas weren't raised, or you just dipped into Minmus' communication shadow.
And I used to think docking was hard jeez this looks very difficult to manage and remember
I just wish the game would explain stuff like this. Where did you get the 12 hours from? I don´t get that part. Is it like a universal value or something? Isn´t there like an easy way to get those numbers? Sometimes I hate the game for not explaining shit...
I just picked the twelve hours. It seemed a nice number. Since then, I've actually gone to 3 hours around the Mun.
How do you launch at one of the equatorial nodes of minmus? Thanks, love the videos :)
I talk about it in my How to Get to Minmus video. A link to it is under the info tab.
@@MikeAben man, a reply in less than 24 hours?? You're such a stud!! Thank you, I've been really digging this playlist.
@@MikeAben yup, watched that video and got the answer. Thank you lots!
@@MikeAben Just finished everything in the video! Your instructions were great, and it feels awesome to have a sweet relay network over minmus. Thank you!
Do a jool 5
The Orbit Period is really confusing me a lot
In what way? Can you be more specific?
Bro that like to dislike ratio whattt
Im an idiot and just throw the relays anywhere where I think would reach and call it a day, I have more than 10 Relays in the SOI of Kerbin and have 3 in the Mun, in a fashion not how you explained it in this video.
imagine sending up like 5k satellites into orbit for faster network.
oh wait the elon man is already doing that
they dont have them in ksp 2
If you are talking relays, they kinda do. KSP2 doesn't distinguish between direct antennas and relays, but my understanding is that all the antennas will act as relays when it's called for.
@@MikeAben will it show up on the world view as lines of communication going back and fourth
@@dominomasters104 I'm not sure about that part.
@@MikeAben yeah it doesn’t I hope they add it because it was such a neat feature