Honda CRV Failed CVT Transmission Teardown. Not AT ALL What I Expected To Find!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 มิ.ย. 2022
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WHAT, a transmission? Ok look, this won't be a regular thing, but a failed late model CVT for FREE? Too hard to pass up! I've got a few out of the normal box videos for this Summer and this is just one of them.
This is a CVT from a 2015 Honda CRV all-wheel drive. This was given to me by a local Honda dealership and curiosity decided it was time to tear it down this week. I, for one, am not a big fan of CVT type transmissions. They're typically(not always) less reliable, less efficient, and not very serviceable. Lets not even get into the strange driving dynamics they create. That doesn't mean they're all terrible. Heres a short list of CVT's I would avoid, and CVT's that don't seem too bad (yet). This list is just my opinion being in the used auto parts industry.
Reliable list:
1st, 2nd, and 3rd generation Toyota Prius
Non-hybrid Honda Civics and Accord
3.6L Subaru
Less than reliable list:
Nissan. All of them. ALL
Late Model Toyota RAV4(as soon as they went CVT)
any non-turbo 4 cylinder Subaru
Ford 500/Mercury Montego/Freestyle
2015+ Honda CRV and HRV
There are others of course with varying degrees of "Good" or "not"
My name is Eric and I own and run a full service auto salvage operation located in Saint Louis Missouri. Part of our model is acquiring core or bad engines and selling good parts from them. Getting a core transmission was just a circumstantial situation but Im glad I did. I actually enjoyed tearing this town, figuring out how this worked, how it was assembled and how to disassemble it. Unlike a lot of my recent engine teardowns, this CVT teardown wore me out. Definitely a learning experience.
As always I appreciate any comments, feedback and even the criticism.
Catch you on the next one!
-Eric - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
I actually worked designing one of the very first prototype CVTs for cars in the US about 40 years ago. You found "the problem" very early on. That half of the pulley sheave that had wear marks on it. The "belt" was slipping. (When you started prying on the belt I was laughing my head off, because I knew what was coming ! If you had got the belt out the correct way, it still would have fallen apart unless you had wrapped tape around it in several places before removing.)
CVTs pulleys for ATVs and snowmobile are designed to slip because they are also a centrifugal clutch. When the engine speed is low, the drive sheaves separate and the belt stops moving. The rubber belts work exactly like you would expect. As the sheaves tighten, the "high side" of the belt "pulls" on the the other set of sheaves.
Metal belt CVT work very different. First, they are "engaged" 100% of the time that the input to the drive pulley is spinning (i.e the torque converter output is spinning). Second, the friction on the sheaves against the side of the belt actually PUSHES the belt. IF THE BELT EVERY SLIPS, IT IS GAME OVER ! The sheaves are damaged and so is the side of the belt that transmits the torque.
If you really want to hurt your brain, get one of the newer 8 or 10 speed transmissions and figure out how they get that many "speeds" out of such a small set of gears !
Thanks for the inside scoop!
Do you mind me asking what car this was for?
Was the CVT you worked on for the Subaru Justy??
I am not worthy! Just trying to follow your explanation is beyond my meager intellect! 👍
Sounds like an overtly complicated, government mandated ticking time bomb that might get you.... say 1 mpg over a tried and true traditional auto tranny. But, hey. 1 mpg.🤡
Lifetime fluid! The fluid lasts right up until the failure.
Yep ....thats what it means
At least it's fluid designed only for CVT's that you could buy at a parts store that's lifetime fluid 😐
Sounds like you found the PTU on my Ford. Lifetime fluid, so 80k miles before catastrophic failure…
Yeppers, same with all fluids and even gasoline, vehicles last as long as one tank will take them then it’s time to replace the whole unit 🤪
Ha! Exactly! Only needs to last 40-50k
I'm a Honda Technician and to be honest, watching this tear down was more informative than the Factory Training modules we have to do. There's just something about actually physically seeing the inside that a bunch of text and 3d models/diagrams can't fulfill
We also don't reman transmissions or take them apart anymore. Everything is shipped out to a Reman Factory, and all we do are R&Rs on them. So this video helps put the mental images inside my head for when I'm diagnosing a complaint (generally 'My CVT makes a whining noise')
As Honda Technician, could you enlighten me on an issue I had with my 2005 Honda Civic Hybrid CVT transmission? The transmission would shudder, usually upon starting after a stop, and was most pronounced when on an uphill. The solution I found from the Internet Experts was to change the CVT fluid THREE TIMES, and use ONLY HONDA CVT FLUID. Well, I did it myself and bought enough fluid from the dealer for the 3 changes, but after the 2nd change, the problem improved sufficiently so I skipped the third change. I was truly amazed that this solution worked. Can you enlighten me as to what is actually going on, whether this fluid change is only a temporary fix, and if my transmission will eventually end up like the one in this video? The car has only 60,000 miles on it so I'm hoping to keep it for a while. Thanks.
@@msnoonan I suspect the "three times" is a mantra to ensure that ALL the contaminated fluid and any metal bits are out of the system
Did you change the filter each time too? (This is one of the reasons that many modern Autos don't have a drain plug. You're supposed to drop the pan and change the filter each time)
YUP-- I too was REALLY REALLY impressed (I'm more of a Physics/Electrical--- "Networking" guy)
I made a huge note under Jack Pateeuw's comment about it.
Jack was a designer/engineer of CVT's
when I was watching this I was just AMAZED at the beauty of the engineering here.
@@msnoonan not fluid but change CVT three times 60000 miles = 1 CVT
@@msnoonan clutch tolerances I believe like the rear differentials on CRV’s I learned that dual pump fluid only is used in them and once it’s “dirty” the clutches don’t engage fully as quickly as they should. Flushing the old dirty fluid a few times to get as clean of fluid as possible fixes the issue I recommend aT the first feeling of the problem change the fluid.
Blessed are the youtube mechanics who fast forward removing nuts, bolts, etc.
Well, if nothing else, CVT's are a great source for hard to find long metric bolts.
I was thinking the same thing!
My bolt drawer would be so happy with all them bad bois
LOL!!!!
Lucy: "I promise I won't pull the football away."
Charlie Brown - falls for it (literally).
Used auto parts wholesaler: "Yes, it's been drained."
Eric - falls for it.
A used automatic transmission is NEVER EMPTY !
You would have to tear down the transmission to actually drain it. Same for an engine. Its not as simple as pulling the drain plug. Fluid will always have little hidden pools that you can't realistically drain.
We could supply the world's oil demands with an array of used transmissions and engines. Just turn them over every month or so and more oil WILL drain out
Thank you for not swearing. My 2, 5, and 7 year old kids like watching these with me.
Its fun to have visuals to explain to them how cars and engines work!
They're waiting for you to put Barney on
@@MadScientist267 Lmao chill
@MadScientist267 yes Thomas the train
@@Keyboard_Jesushe is explaining to us he is watching this with all eyes on screen
A lot of perfectly machined parts & nicely fit bearings, some beautiful CNC stuff in there, very precisely made.
Agreed
It appears to be scrap metal now
@@george2113 doesn't make it any less beautiful or well made
@@DIE2dayORelse it's more attractive than 95**% of modern art. As far as well made that's debatable.
Lets take a hammer to it!
I know it was bad. I know it was never going to go back together. I know no one was going to try to rebuild it. I know it was basically trash.
And yet I cringed whenever he reached for the hammer... ;)
As someone who has a good bit of experience with Honda manual transmissions, I've never messed with any of their autos or CVTs. This was a nice a change of pace from a normal teardown video thanks!
For a minute I thought I accidentally clicked on "Precision Transmission".
@@fredfranklin8816 Their videos are great too!
Do the manual transmissions vary a lot in strength or are they all pretty similar and how much have they changed since the 80's? I like how the Hondas have lots of ball bearings for lowest drag.
Go look up "Weber Auto" --- he has several really good videos on CVT's and diff's.. and even Tesla motors, ect.. All kinds of cool stuff. Very instructional too-- I think he is a Teacher actually.
Someone get this guy safety glasses
You have to respect a man who knows and recognizes what he doesn’t know.
The utter complexity of that thing is amazing. I wonder how many engineers, designers, technicians, mechanics it took to design, prototype, test, tool, production validation testing and launch that thing.
CVT in Japanese means a transmission designed by committee@@douganderson7002
It’s really not that complex at all. Especially compared to 8 and 10 speed transmissions.
@@areallytallguythat’s what I like about cvt is the simplest transmission in many ways
compare it to most transmissions and it's a miracle of simplicity. that maze of hydraulics looks rather small
I was just going to say that
That was fun! I love taking stuff apart just to see how it worked, ever since I took my cap gun apart when I was 5. I had no great idea how those CVTs went together. It was so much easier and cleaner watching you do it. Thanks. Also, thanks for the tip on Nissan CVTs.
I watch precision transmission channel and didn’t realize how complicated the auto transmission was until I got curious and found that channel. Dudes an artist on the transmissions.
Richard over there is a wizard!
Love those guys, they build those gm 4 speeds better than they came from the factory by far
Richard is the man!
Unfortunately the family had drama and the channel shutdown. No more new content
Actually they have a new channel Richard and Teresa Educational Transmission Videos!
It's super cool that you're stepping out of your comfort zone to do this. I always wanted to see inside of a non Jatco CVT.
this one doesn't look too dissimilar to what I've seen of torn-down Jatco/nissan CVTs. I work on subarus, and while we don't technically consider them internally repairable, we do take a class on CVTs that involves a full teardown -- and their guts look pretty different. There is a *really* good video from Kennedy Transmission in minneapolis tearing down a subaru trans that shows the differences. Most notably the use of a full chain as opposed to the banded plates like in this and the nissan.
That transmission holds 7 or so quarts of fluid; normal draining at time of service only gets about half of it out. I'm sure that's all the transmission shop or salvage yard did when the gave it to Eric. I'm surprised it didn't leak more than it did.
@@cll1639 This explains the "change the fluid 3 times" mantra seen in another comment regarding shuddering
That is waaaay more complex than I ever expected. I somehow assumed that the simple principle of operation would mean simple components and construction. The number of casting, machining and assembly operations on this thing must be staggering!
@@revelation13_9😭
@@revelation13_9ooh crap have a Nissan Altima with this type of transmission 😮😮
@@carlbernard4197best of luck man, Nissan cvt have a bad rep but I feel like majority of it is from lack of PMs.. don’t listen to the lifetime fluid . Change every 20k and you’ll be fine
@@JustinAndCarsThat, and the trans filter. It’s rather semi-easy task(s) to DIY, esp if you had space to work on the car.
Hey Man,, you are good. It has been a pleasure to watch your work, it is very educational, and helpful for some people like me when can prevent some of the engine failures. Thank you, and wish you many good years of tearing engines down. Big Fan!!!!!
The big toy cars/helicopters we all had as kids. Three, four buttons on top. Make noises and lights. You took this transmission apart with the same enthusiasm, wonder, and wonton disregard for planning we disassembled those toy cars as kids. Loved this episode so much.
Yep, and those little electric motors would do about 72,000 rpms for 8 seconds when plugged into a wall socket.
Man, you got that right, I got about 3 outboard motors in the garage, about in the same condition, I took them apart very carefully, I’m 75, I’m waiting for those memories to become “long term” so I can put them back together again.
Ive rebuilt so many Nissan CVTs I could rebuild them with my eyes closed. I hate CVTs with a passion but made me loads of money.
If it is making you rich and it is something you're good at doing... congratulations on finding a niche.
To bad hate outweighs profit ...hire a couple guys outside home depot ...keep profits
@@nickmalone3143 I like doing it. I just hate CVTs in that, I would never own one. People should keep buying them to keep making me money.
where would you recommend to learn how to rebuild cvts?
yea, Nissan tranny's are garbage . but it doesn't help that people are too lazy to learn how to take care of their car or truck ... I've literally seen people on here say why do you need to change the fluid? .... I really dislike society ..
We recently found your channel and love it. We've been working our way through all your videos. Best part of this one was the "safety tote." You always make us laugh. Please keep it up (oops, that's right there with "front to back")
I don’t know how your videos got into my feed. I am hooked.
I have no mechanical background but always wanted to learn engines. Your channel is one of my favorites. Thanks and hope you have tons more success with the channel!
"Every great warrior once wore diapers." Whenever you look at master engine builders and professional mechanics who are highly capable, just remind yourself that all of us started with absolutely ZERO knowledge about engines and transmissions and other vehicular systems. When I was 8, I didn't even know what a piston looked like. I got very excited one day as a 10 year old just realizing that if I took the spark plug out of our lawn mower, I could look in with a flash light and watch the actual piston go up and down! 😸 It was a flathead Briggs. I then reinstalled the spark plug with my dad's 3 foot breaker bar which I had used to remove it, and promptly cranked the thing down SO TIGHT that I ripped the threads right out of the cylinder head in one solid piece. The plug popped out the next time my dad went to start it up, and I watched him unwind the coil of thread metal off the spark plug and look at me with an annoyed face. 😸 Nothing a Helicoil kit didn't fix, but still an oopsie that I learned from.
I watched my dad (who was very skilled mechanically and electrically) do EVERYTHING around the house and on our cars and outdoor equipment. By 11 I changed a tire myself. By 15 I did a front disk brake job with his supervision and tips along the way. I'm in my 20s now, sadly my dad is dead, and I'm an ex-professional auto technician (I did it for a few years and decided I hated doing it as a job). But, I continue to learn new things every day. It just takes curiosity and time Carver, but you will one day be able to replace a head gasket or do a clutch job or roll in new bearings if you keep reading and taking things apart and watching videos about how things work and how to repair them. 😎👍 Keep doing what you're doing. Buy a cheap lawnmower on Craigslist or FB Marketplace and take it apart and put it back together, or buy a very cheap broken one and try to fix it. Harbor Freight is a good source of cheap tools that work fine and have a lifetime warranty if you break them. Also, yard sales, estate sales, and swapmeets/flea markets are a GREAT source of used, HIGH QUALITY tools for cheap. 😎 If you keep looking and take the time to sort through the random bins and piles of tools at the flea market sellers' booths, you will find Snap-On, Mac, Matco, Proto, old Craftsman, and other high quality tools that are super affordable to build up a set of hand tools. Anyway...just some encouragement and perspective for you. 💪😺 Take care.
You are having to much fun!!!!!
how have you never learned??
Just go to a junkyard, find some shitbox engine for 50 usd and tear it down.
It always makes me sad to see such beautifully machined high quality steel parts just thrown in the scrap bin.
Me too brother. I guess that's why I tend to use older equipment.
It's a honduh.. who cares
@@chris1451 at least it isn't a ford.
@@davemyers3553 I'll take a Ford before anything else.
@@chris1451 I'm sorry, that brain injury you have must be tough.
The more of these videos I see the more I appreciate a pushrod V8 and a 4 speed manual. I'm keeping my Crown Vic until the wheels fall off.
You have a 4 speed manual Vic?
Original transmission?
Thank you friend for sharing the video with us. I learned something about a CTV transmission. I could never put something back like that together again. I enjoy the video though. They one of these days I'll watch another one of your videos. Thank you.
kind of amazing to think that much machining and material is considered disposable.
Now you see why I bought a manual.
It is indeed disgraceful and wasteful. Even the Pakistan truck channel couldn't put this crap back together.
it's metal, just melt it down and turn it into something else.
@@DanielRichards644 machining time is really expensive, and that much material doesnt melt easy. not to mention the fluid that'd contaminate it so you'd have to run a cleaner first
@@RRaucina I would love to see the mad max reingineering those guys would do....
Since the your last video I decided to acquire a Safety Tote similar to yours. I've found its invaluable when watching your videos even though my two dogs try to attack me when I walk through my house. Excellent work, always appreciated!
That Honda machining and engineering is a thing of beauty to behold.
Absolutely your best entertainment and commentary.
Just the best, 10mm and faithful blue....
Wail away, therapy.
That was a nice change of pace, and a very interesting teardown in which we all learnt something. Keep up the awesome and informative content!!
Watched this whole teardown. You made a great effort to learn something new. Glad I came along for the ride.
Thanks for doing this. I wanted to see how these go together. Glad you decided to do something a bit different.
Lol!! I really like your videos. Helps relieve the stress of the day. This one helps relieve my fears that the tranys in my two civics won’t fall apart on the highway without effort,.. and a lot of effort…!
I used to be a honda tech and the amount of these cvt's we were replacing was mind boggling, especially on the hrv they had a recall for checking for excessive wear in the transmission
Because no one ever replaces the fluid.
@@rlhh4 Nor does anyone replace fluid in a standard auto trans.. but they still last a lot longer.
@@rlhh4 Subaru of America said is a "sealed transmission and don't require any maintenance" no wonder why they break all the time
Maybe they need their fluid changed with more frequency.
yep honda reccomends every 30k on cvt fluid, most of them normally failed around 40-60k
Used to build shop equipment for overhaul and the "transmission table" we would make had 3 inch channel below and 1/2 way underneath the top which worked like a gutter on a house. The channel had a fitting welded such as a down spout on a gutter with a piece of hose that would drain into a bucket. Simple but helped keep the mess contained.
What a complicated and clever piece of kit,it’s no wonder they cost a fortune to repair when they do go wrong,I’ve just had one overhauled on a Chevrolet Orlando Diesel,the cause of failure on mine was the Snap Ring or circlips as we call them had broken letting all the shafts move around and making it impossible for the box to select any gears,the cost was £2880-0 which is more than the car was worth. It has now been fitted with modified parts from America which cures the problems associated with Chevrolet automatic transmissions,they knew about the failures but refused to accept there was a problem with them,typical of motor manufacturers,apparently Volkswagen have problems with their DSG gearbox’s and are very reluctant to honour their warranties on them,my son in law had an Audi Automatic with the same gearbox and quoted him £9,000 for a replacement,he sued them and they settled out of court to avoid any unwanted publicity and draw attention to the problems they have with these gearbox’s,if you have trouble with one always go to Trading Standards if they refuse to accept responsibility,these gearbox’s are NOT fit for purpose and they know it, it’s their little secret.
Happy New Years Adam!!!🎉
“Alright, I got the nut off…. Don’t!” Perfectly timed. I was wondering if that was this video’s hidden innuendo, when I heard Eric say “Don’t.”
As someone who handles motor and transmission cores daily at work, the one thing I’ve learned is that transmissions are NEVER drained, unless it’s missing the pan and has sat for a day. Then you have a 50% chance it’s drained.
You can get them drained enough to ship them by hanging them over a drain pan like you just got back from a deer hunt, but even then I'm sure there was still some fluid inside the thing. I've always joked that auto transmissions and engine water jackets are never fully drained, just when you think they are you'll flip it over and more will come out again. It's like they're a wormhole to the transmission fluid universe
@@kenstein that’s my current setup: I drain it over our table, but our hoist setup is on a forklift tine, and I can only fit about 6 cores at a time on it. I can’t leave it on the hoist, as then it stops all progress as I only have one lift I can use for this.
@@vater1760 could you maybe set up an I beam or two across the ceiling over the bench with hooks so you can hang them to drain over one end while you work at the other end? All I can think of
@@kenstein Hmmm that is definitely an idea that could work. I’ll price out something and hopefully catch the GM on a good day so it’ll get approved. It would sure save on Oil-Dri. We burn through those 40 pound bags way too quickly.
Love the engine teardowns and it's great to see other mechanical components and sub-assemblies on the bench 👍👍
I always think that if a machine has only two broken parts then it must be worth fixing. Somehow the modern world doesn't work that way and I will never understand it.
I love these videos for the curiosity and the comedy.
Now that's quite the jumble of engineering wizardry!
It didn't look very complicated when you took the outer sides apart... Man did that escalate quickly!
Really enjoyed this tear down. I have been wanting to see the inside of a CVT for a long time. That chain is crazy!
Me too! My Nissan has one of these type of transmissions.
Thanks, You are helping people like me that like to learn about some machines. I will probably never tear down CVT transmissions, or most motors. I still like that you can show us whats inside, and perhaps why it broke.
I used to rebuild automatic transmissions in the late 70s. I can see that this CVT is servicable. You need a few special tools. You need a puller to get off the sprocket on the shaft to get access to that nut. Also you need a clutch pack retainer spring compressor at the point where you put the garbage can on your head. Very interesting teardown and a CVT is no longer a mystery to me.
Really enjoyed watching this. A proper 'To heck with it' episode of 'No idea, so take it apart anyway'.
All those hundreds of tiny little belt thingys that fell out and scattered everywhere would make cool keyring fobs.
6:56 fun fact: 9 times out of 10, when a CVT fails, it IS an electrical issue. Seals can go and other things may break but electrical issues are typically what bricks a CVT.
What about on nissans
@@warriorplutotrent3827 They are just terrible. Failure of the hydraulics causes mechanical damage.
What kind of electrical issue? So it's not the fluid?
@@sl4983 My experience is that it's a sensor.
Never has so much destruction been done to so little of a transmission in so little time 🤣
This is your most entertaining video to date. Thanks Eric for an interesting Saturday nite. Hope to see you next weekend👍
Maybe I missed it, but I kept thinking: “Isn’t there a gear puller in that shop somewhere?”
The belt disassembly was masterfully done , I salute you sir !!
Your honesty is refreshing.
37:00 The Prius that you mentioned don’t have the same type of CVT. They are know as an ECVT with planetary gears and electric motors.
(edit, removed my incorrect information) Was years ago I seen Prius cvt bunch of videos much have incorrectly labeled the car the cvt came off (not a Prius) , but yes the e-cvt is very fascinating design
@@leexgx No, all Prii starting with the 1st gen in 1997 had an E-CVT (planetary gear with 2 electric motors). They never had a belt system like in the video. Only the 1st and 2nd gen had a chain drive between the planetary gear and the final drive, but this had nothing to do with the automatic part.
Exactly. I believe it's incorrect to even call it a CVT. The Prius transmission only has one fixed gear ratio in the planetary, the variability in speed is handled with the motors.
@@mikeunsupervised9254 the e-cvt has no gears so it still a cvt just a very inventive way to do it (been able to control power from motor ratio and engine power or both at same time without a cvt belt)
and the rav4 hybrids are the exact same systems so why is he saying they are bad!!!??? they are actually incredibly awesome as long as you aren't trying to tow with them and you change the fluid every 60,000 miles (which is very easy since you just drain then fill to the overflow)
I work for the engine plant, and the transmission plant is close by. The CVT did have some headaches, and we saw it through to fix it. The smoothness of the drive, is nice. And no clunk when moving from Park to Reverse either.
There is a lot of engineering in the CVT, and the cost per unit, is higher, but worth the experience.
My 2014 crv has original everything as far as drivetrain and suspension at 180k. Best vehicle I’ve ever owned. I’m 56 so I’ve had a few.
Gotta love that two second delay when you mash on the gas to merge into heavy traffic. Or when you're going up a slight incline and it throws itself into low gear and the engine hits 4k rpms to get to 40 mph.
That's how I felt the first time I drove a regular automatic trans car, after only driving manuals since getting my license. Funny how people don't recognize older automatic cars have the same annoying delays and downshifts to super high RPMs. And I mean older like 15-20 years old. The work truck I drive is a 2004 f350 with the triton v10 and 4 or 5 speed auto, that thing is a slow shifting dog compared to my personal car, a 2021 Kia Soul with the IVT transmission. My Kia is super responsive and doesn't have to go super high revs to move quick or go uphill. And for good economy, I can press my foot on the pedal from a stop, keep my foot in the same position, and it stays at a consistent 1800-2000 RPMs until I get to speed at a decent rate, the whole time, no delays or shifts. To me that's amazing and I love it. This is coming from a hardcore manual transmission lover, my second car is still a manual. To each their own I guess.
@@CadgerChristmasLightShow I've only ever really driven manual transmissions my entire life.
It's kinda weird, but I actually find the CVT to be faster at responding to pedal input than my 8-speed Land Cruiser (as a comparison) because the engine *will* ramp up to its most efficient RPM and deliver add'l horsepower as soon as the "belt" expands to the right size for the power output. But since I'm driving my sister's Prius C, I have the added benefit of regen braking, so I can go downhill for a bit before overheating the regeneration and having to lock up the transmission into engine braking mode.
But yeah, I totally agree with you.
The two second delay is in virtually every new cars these days. Part of the Federally mandated stability control system. Lawyers trying to keep you safe. You can turn it off partially by pressing the dashboard, or--secret!!--by pushing the button for at least five seconds to turn more of it off.
@@CadgerChristmasLightShow I do recognize that feeling of old automatic transmissions. I call it the rubber band effect. It feels like there's a rubber band between the engine and the wheels. You step on the accelerator, the engine revs, and the car starts to accelerate when it feels like it...
Compared to a manual transmission it's a quite disturbing feeling. You don't have that direct connection between the engine and the wheels, that direct response and nothing like the engine braking you get when letting off the accelerator. And for the first few hours in any car with an automatic gearbox I have to sit on my left foot to avoid the panic you feel when trying to step on the clutch at highway speeds...
But having said that modern high count automatic transmissions are pretty amazing. And both CVT's and regular automatic transmissions are more economical to drive than a manual today. Well I guess it's possible to find some instances where a manual is still more efficient, but the absolute majority of drivers doesn't have the skills to achieve that.
2021 Forester, no delay.
Other benefit to a CVT: it lets the engine stay right in the middle of its happy rpm for either economy or power, depending on what's needed at that moment. If you're flooring it the engine can stay right at the happy 4000 or wherever the peak of the power curve happens to be, and if you're cruising on the freeway it can back it down to 2400 or wherever the peak on the specific fuel economy curve happens to be.
It's the same logic behind a semi having 18 speeds, only more of it.
The thing is, slushboxes already basically do that. At low throttle my car will go through 2nd, 3rd and 4th at basically a fixed engine RPM. The torque converter slip makes up the difference.
@Retired Bore I'll take 100% more reliability over 7.5% more efficiency. Also modern autos are just as efficient as manuals. Mine can lock up the torque converter in all forward gears. My car comes in a manual version and its official fuel economy figures are worse than the auto.
@@nicholasvinen the torque converter does help considerably but they aren't all that efficient. A good chunk of the power going thru it gets turned into heat which then needs to be dealt with. Frankly if a tc could be as efficient as a CVT, it would simply be used as a CVT by itself. Yeah they're a good way for a transmission to get properly synchronized without an actual clutch in there but when they're unlocked they kinda suck.
Sort of a moot point since lately a lot of cars are moving to DCTs. I think the days of the 4L60 and its brethren are basically over.
@@DanBowkley - what are DCT's? Digitally controlled transmissions?
@@orcoastgreenman dual clutch transmission.
“Nope! Don’t like that!” is literally my reaction every time I drive a CVT.
I said almost the same thing to the Service Writer at Toyota, he said I was driving it wrong. The fuel economy was nice though 47mpg.
My soul cries when theres no gears
Sure if you’re flogging it but if you’re cruising around town CVTs are awesome. They are so smooth that every geared transmission I’ve been in after feels like a clunky pile of shit. Too bad they don’t live long past 70k.
I work at a gas station and it's always the CVT's that break down all the time. People come to trying to put transmission fluid in an I'm like... your transmission is gobe
the newer honda ones arent bad to drive at all. the most recent accord with the cvt feels nice to drive and it doesnt use those stupid ass fake shifts that other manufacturers throw in. and they dont have the lag when youre accelerating from a stop like subarus do
I've had a small Chevy with a CVT transmission and loved your comment how they feel "broken" . Mine did from day one, never really liked it. It does save on fuel but if I ever replace the car I'm going back to a manual 4 or 5 speed.
Thanks, your persistence and patience is commendable. I would have quickly resorted to the hot spanner.
For anyone that ever wanted to tear something apart and not worry about putting it back together I love this channel. I always wonder about the person who put it together, what would they think?
If it was me I'd prob be sad it lost its life so young but happy that someone is looking at their work and appreciating it
@@DIE2dayORelse Thanks, engineering beyond comprehension, to many bells and whistles for sure.
It was probably put together by a robot, if not, it was a group of people each doing a little part and not seeing any of the rest of it.
@@TheOtherBill Definitely mostly robots.
That's one insanely complicated piece of engineering, damn.
No fuel economy or any added advantage.
The advantage is that they are cheaper to build than a slush box auto. And the economy is slightly better.
@@abeninan4017beg to differ
This is why I bought a Mazda. Everyone else in its class came with CVTs. Got an old school 20th century 6 speed
Yes! First-rate experience and go forever.
yes it's hard to beat the tried and true and proven old school gear.
Same here buddy. Just bought a used 2020 CX-5 with an N/A 2.5 engine and 6-speed transmission. How's yours running for you these days?
Yep, it all comes down to emissions again and trying to keep engine RPM right in the most economical range all the time. There is nothing wrong with our older reliable auto transmissions from a mechanical sense. We just keep making cars more complex and less reliable chasing fewer emissions. I would rather own a hybrid electric where the electric motor is the only motive force than a vehicle with a CVT.
i use my 4spd car for heavy duty stuff, towing, 4x4'ing, etc. the CVT car only for super light duty work just driving around town and it excels at that. i think the CVT is going to be reliable enough w/ this kind of work load. if not then i'm definitely getting a mazda next...
😂😮😅 my friend I like the way you say things when you take that transmission apart you sound like a comedian almost you said the transmission had a lot of balls and a lot of balls did come out. And you were right to make that spring pop out from the unit cuz spring is just a couple of days away now. Thank you. I'm just giving you a little humor back. That's all.
Honda (more specifically Acura) automatic transmissions paid for my first house. Changed at least one every single day for about a year and a half. Getting the popcorn ready for this one.
Great entertainment!! I have also been accused of using big hammers often.. especially on rusted suspension components.
2010 Nissan Altima 3.5 CVT here with 120K. The warranty was extended to 10 year 108K on this vehicle. I perform a CVT drain & fill every 20K and change the external oil filter every 60K. The 3.5 CVT is definitely a beefier unit than the 2.5 & paired to a lightweight car with aggressive maintenance practices my CVT is generating very little material on the magnetic drain plug.
I have replaced 2 wheel bearings & the rear sub-frame is rusted & in need of replacement ($100 from salvage) & the front bumper cover is pitted badly ($125 painted from eBay). It rides nice on the highway & is stiff enough to give this old timer a thrill in the twisties. The 3.5 also has a electronic shift mode like a 6 speed A/T as well as a manual shift mode...
Just want to say thank you for doing this. My daughter killed a Cvt in a 2014 civic and I just ordered a used low mileage replacement and it went incredibly well. Knew I did not want to even try to repair and after watching this, definitely a good call. Thank you again as I found this very informative and I too was shocked the belt was not in pieces when you got to it.
For what it's worth, Honda actually had a recall over the CVTs in the 2014-15 Civics, something about reprogramming them to prevent premature wear.
Where did you order the low mileage replacement?
@@henryd1981Is that what they do, is reprogram it?
@@sl4983 I did an internet search for used Honda transmission that included year and car model and ordered from a used dealer that provided a warranty. It has been so long ago now, I no longer have a record of who I purchased from. They gave me options and I paid more for a low mileage one with less than 40k miles and it worked great.
How many miles before the failure?
The Prius trans functions like a CVT, but runs on a completely different principle with no belt on variable pulleys, so it is understandable that it would not share issues with other CVTs.
Exactly
I realize your experimenting but maybe you would have benefited by watching some videos on this subject. Either way, this is a testament to the guys that work on AT's everyday and how talented they have to be. Hats off to all the transmission guys out there.
I am soon getting my father's 2019 CRV. I was glad to hear that Honda seems to have solved their CVT issues around 2017.
But this is very cool to see and learn about.
Has to have a "launch" gear in cvt ....
They 'solve' the problems every few years. In a few years they will 'solve' the problems again and lure in more suckers. I actually own one but I knew what I was getting into. There's more to a vehicle than just a transmission and I was willing to take that bullet to get the whole package.
@@knurlgnar24 can I ask wat year you have?
@@knurlgnar24just got 20 HR-V
Do more videos like this , love your engine breakdowns !🤜🤛
CVTs have several benefits:
1. They are more efficient (in terms of mpg) since they’re linear (no steps) so engine can stay at low rpm longer and in the entire speed range
2. Cheaper
3. Compared to old automatic (and stick) they’re a lot smoother since they don’t really shift so there’s no jerk
The disadvantage are:
1. It’s very hard to build for torquey engines (which is why you’ll mostly find them on smaller car with less powerful engines
2. They feel like your accelerator is attached to the engine with a chewing gum
3. Since they can’t handle torque and designed to avoid torque, your engine feels more like a speaker than an engine. Pressing on the accelerator just makes lots of noise but not much acceleration
Audi tried to reinvent that CVT with metal chain in the 90s to get better mpg but work with more powerful engines. It failed miserably since it still felt like you had a rubber band as an accelerator…
Bottom line, anyone who likes driving should avoid cvt.
Anyone who hates gearboxes should get a sporty EV… and just get performance at zero RPM. Love it!
I take ti you mean by liking to drive is making a lot of noise, revving engines a lot, stomping on the accelerator to burn rubber and generally just abusing your vehicle!
What a different approach than “precision transmission” takes!
Enjoyed your sense of adventure. That and a hammer can open new things.
As a scooter enthusiast (ruckus mostly), cvt’s are infinitely tunable w/ weights and drive faces, springs and centrifugal clutches. Even the belts. A slightly used 500-700 miles will sometimes make you go faster vs a new not yet broken in belt. Thanks for the tear down and getting out of your comfort zone. Keep up the good work!!
These cvts are vastly different than the rubber belt ones on scooters, ATVs and snowmobiles.
the problem is that no belt can transmit more that 30 hp;
so cars have steel belts!!! running on steel pulleys!!! only a ++++ would buy on that
A scooter CVT is about 1 million times simpler than this.
Appreciated the lesson! Nice to see you explore ( challenge) aCVT. THANKS👍👍👍
First off, I love your videos. Fantastic and fun to watch.
Secondly, I hate these transmissions too lol.
I have a 2017 Honda fit with a CVT . I've changed the fluid twice, both times slightly ahead of the recommended service intervals, always using the correct Honda cvt fluid. Each time the old fluid was still clear but had a smell that reminded me of a barn, and I grew up around farms so I know what a barn smells like.
Mine is a 2013 Hybrid straight from Japan. Only 45k on the clock but mine is a DCT and is actually quite smooth compared to other automatics I’ve driven.
@@ElysiumNZ you mean a dual clutch?
Old gear oil smells awful, like a skunk or rotten eggs. It's because of the sulfur based EP additives breaking down over time.
I assume CVT oil has similar additives to help protect the belt and cones; being a friction drive there will always be a small amount of slip.
@@nerd1000ify maybe you are right but Ford LS additive used Sperm whale oil and that smelled awful. I think they came up with alternative ingredients but the smell has always been nuts and more than just sulfer. I once had a small bottle of Ford Motorsports additive inside a plastic bag with a tight knot and it still stunk like a skunk!
Weber Auto has detailed videos on how a lot of these transmissions work. I’d love for this guy to watch a few videos to help with his future transmission tear downs.
Very good video..,shows how the Prius non belt e-cvt work.. cleaver design and super reliable
"tear" being the operative word.
The Subaru CVT has proved to be pretty good. I think going with the chain instead of a belt is what makes it better than most.
AND,,,,, change the fluid every 50-60k. I have 120k on my Forester. I still dont like CVT's though.
I owed a 1996 Subaru Domingo for 8 years and put over 100,000 km on it. The CVT on it was truly fantastic and it was the favourite vehicle I ever owned. Despite a small 1200cc motor it was quick off the line, absolutely stone reliable, never had a major problem with either the motor or the transmission. Sorry I had to up grade to a larger vehicle!
Whats amazing is the failure part is most often not the belt but part of the pulley due to friction wear or a bad bearing. CVTs get a bad rap but prob don't fail at a higher rate than 8 speeds. They also now have a starting gear with the Toyota ones which further reduces the wear it would experience and improves performance.
Toyota now has the eCVT hybrid which is amazing. Its efficient and because of the electric motor quick enough.
yeah unfortunately the Nissan CVTs gave ALL cvts a really bad reputation
@@QuincyStick I got an 2019 mitsubishi lancer 2.0 mivec with CVT. Do you know if the cvt has any bad rep? It has only 24,000 miles in it
@@kinsmart7294 honestly couldn't tell you, I haven't heard anything about them. one thing I can tell you for sure about all cvts are that they are very sensitive about their maintenance. I'd recommend getting a transmission fluid change (not flush) every 50k miles. the dealership probably won't do it for you because they believe in "lifetime fluid" but I can assure you that is very much bs.
@@kinsmart7294 cvts also don't really like harsh acceleration from a standstill. If you're already moving its not that big of a deal, but from a dead stop they don't like harsh acceleration. Also be sure to be totally stopped before changing from drive to reverse and vice versa
Speaking of the Prius CVT, it works on a TOTALLY different principal than a conventional CVT which might be why it's a 'good CVT'. In my college hybrid class we tore down a Prius CVT and they're insanely simple. Just two electric motors and a planetary gear in the middle between them. No belts and I don't think there was any clutches (other than one to engage the engine for starting).
I forget the exact name for their operating principal I want to say it's called the "torque split cvt" but I could be wrong.
speedkar99 did a great breakdown of how the Prius CVT works: th-cam.com/video/izdMsVOo7bU/w-d-xo.html
It's called E-CVT.
Not to confuse with Suzuki Burgman scooter E-CVT system which is belt driven (unlike Prius E-CVT which is driven by electric motors/planetary gears)
Agreed, I was going to mention this. You see many Prius e-cvt taxis in Paris with starship mileage on them.
Replaced the fluid in my Honda CRV with the compatible product from Canadian Tire. About a week later, it started to act up, felt like it was slipping, etc. I went and bought new fluid directly from Honda and it took about a week, but started working like new again.
out of all fluids in the vehicle trans fluid is the only one id ever go OEM no exceptrions
Super cool teardown. Thanks.
I'm an old time car guy. Love the history and engineering.
I ended up in a 2018 Subaru Outback with a CVT.
Drives fine. I don't need to feel a shift. It actually is a good experience. It's neat to watch the speed increase as I maintain a constant RPM. Pretty cool,.actually.
Constant velocity propellers and constant velocity transmissions have good energy conservation and fuel savings. There's a good reason they exist, and it's not just cost.
Cool story bro.
Never owned one. Drove several. They feel "different" (weird).
@@videodistro The current 8/10 speed automatics have similar fuel economy benefits and are more durable. Not sure about the costs.
@@jackpatteeuw9244 the 9/10 speeds seem to be just as problematic, if not more problematic than the average CVT. Have seen plenty of well designed CVTs make it 300k+ miles, they're not inherently unreliable. Besides most vehicles that come with CVTs are soulless commuter boxes anyways, it doesn't exactly detract from driving enjoyment when there wasn't any to be had in the first place. The popularization of CVTs never made much of a difference to the people that buy the cars they come in
The reason for CVTs being popular is not cost to build. It's fuel economy. With a CVT you can run the engine at it's most efficient RPM no matter the speed. So you get batter MPG just by swapping the transmission.
Manual is the best trans for fuel economy, 14 days driving 10km each day 30L of gas.
its both
I Drove a Kia Rio with a cvt. I got better gas mileage leaving it in manual mode on the highway
CVT beats manual GF - Honda 1.5 Civic gets 50 mpg. Its a beauty.
Loved the video!! Great job.
New name of the show " I Don't Do Transmissions" love the content!
Very enjoyable! Also worth studying is documentation (e.g. Wikipedia) on the first commercially successful CVT, 'Variomatic' , developed and patented by van Doorne and introduced in 1958 by DAF in The Netherlands for passenger and commercial vehicles.
Thanks for another great video. I'm nearing 190,000 miles on my 2011 Nissan cube, which I bought new from the dealer. Its original CVT still runs smooth and strong. This little wagon has never let me down during my over 12 years of ownership thus far. I'm guessing changing the CVT fluid every 30,000 miles, as recommended by the Nissan Service and Maintenance Guide, helped maintain and ensure my CVT's longevity? My Nissan service advisor shared that many owners don't follow these guidelines. He's also seen backyard mechanics, outside repair shops and Jiffy Quick Lube-type establishments either fill Nissans with the wrong transmission fluid or are completely unaware of the recommended CVT fluid exchange guidelines. We were lucky. I guess we're a testament to the benefits of servicing a vehicle at the dealer...and having a knowledgeable service advisor.
you got very lucky. Nissan CVT is absolute garbage and I guess you were not part of the class action lawsuit lol.
Exactly, Honda had bad experiences with their auto transmissions in the past (1998-2004). But they’ve come a really long way with their “stepped” 5-speed & 6-speed autos since late 2007 onwards.
We own a 2014 Honda Accord 2.4L with a variation of this (CVT) transmission & it has been wonderful ever since. The trick is to actually service the transmission with genuine Honda HCL Type-2. It’s the best interpretation of the CVT I’ve ever known.
I’m glad you actually took good care of the transmission instead of ignoring it like most owners.
You absolutely MUST use the OEM fluid ! IMHO, you are on borrowed time.
Got over 200,000 on my '10 cube, only thing I've had go bad was a coil pack.
from what i have seen you might be getting close to some kind of record
My first car was a '65 Mercedes 220 SEb that I bought from a guy who was going to junk it. I spent my 15th year fixing it up so I'd have a cool car to drive when I got my license. It had mechanical fuel injection. Our home had a white gravel driveway, and I used to have nightmares about taking the top of the pump cover off and having the thing launch parts 50 feet into that gravel. I can still see the glint of light as they sparkled against the sun on their way to oblivion. Anyway, that belt coming apart brought back some crazy memories! Thanks. I think...
Well, that was fun! I have a feeling that the last big nut you were thrashing on may well have been left hand thread. I was wondering throughout the whole teardown if you were going to run into something like that. Thanks for another fun video!
That was a different tear down, think about the hours of engineering that thing, then what it took to make the parts for it, how many hours in the making and testing.. great video
Maybe they should have eliminated the saki break and gave up trying to build a transmission?
@@JC-dt4jq thinking the same thing, what an over engineered piece of crap.
One of the primary reasons most auto makers went to cvt for their cookie cutter vehicles is mileage and emissions. The engine is able to stay in the peak performance rpms while being able to ‘shift’ and still accelerate. Cost is also a major factor like you mentioned as well as simplicity when compared to similar auto transmissions. I’ve driven a cvt Subaru and it wasn’t too bad all in all. Not something I would buy myself but overall not bad.
These things should be prohibited. I mean, by law. They are so stupid, useless and such a waste. Just like excessive eco-fanatism (which in most cases is the big misunderstood and misplaced reason back these gearboxes) should be prohibited - just because how wasteful and sometimes dangerous it all is. CVTs have some application in boats, maybe some smaller/entertainment vehicles - but in normal vehicles meant for actual daily use - there are two types of transmissions which make any sense. Manuals (can be sequantial) and normal torque converter automatics. In recent years, double clutch automatics become increasingly reliable - so they don't need to be killed, either. That's it. These piece of crap idiocies - must go the way of the dodo. The sooner they do, the better for the planet. And for the most part, they do go away. Most manufacturers don't use them any more. It's either a manual - or a TC automatic with planetary gears. Any economy in terms of fuel economy - is wasted - or exceeded 3 or 5 times over - when the owner needs to change the entire piece of crap box - or the entire car. Also - the wasteful way these are designed and engineered - completely offsets and cancels out any minor economy of fuel so much that you simply start asking if the engineer has any understanding what "economy" actually means. All the little specialty pieces, all the little gears, plates on the belt, valve blocks, etc, etc - it all requires so much resources in manufacturing, design, operation - that the 300 litres of gas or diesel you will ever save by using this type of gearbox - will LONG, LONG be gone and forgotten once you calculate the totality of costs, in all phases of life of these pieces of useless waste of metal. This is so stupid I kinda feel embarassed for being a human. How can anyone design them - and think they make any sense - is beyond any logic, especially if you look at the bigger picture. Anyone finding some weird use-case scenario or weird "ahh, but they maintain constant engine RPM" - is simply wrong. EIther learn how to drive a manual (which contains 80% less parts and are robust for decades with minor maintenance) - or buy a TC automatic, if you absolutely must. Or maybe, just maybe buy a DCT if you buy a Porsche or the last Mustang. Otherwise - especially brands like Subaru have lost much, much of their respect for spitefully trying to push these for years - and claiming they do it for "eco-fanatism" - when at the same time Subies mostly run gas engines (their Boxer diesal was crap) - and in the most inefficient engine configuration only - and on top of that, they claim to be the "robust outdoorsy" type of brand. F that. On top of all that, these gearboxes mostly exist because people are negligent. They don't care what their "automotive product" actually contains when they make the purchase. Everyone knows CVTs are bad. However, when girls - or even guys - buy cars and need an automatic (or at least think they do) - they often find out they've gotten a CVT after the fact. Please, please - before buying the car - make sure what type of "automatic" the car uses - and if it's CVT, just buy the manual. If no manual if offered - change the brand. Anyway. Thanks for the video - I really hope these useless inventions die out in automotive application as soon as they possibly can and are smelted into coke cans - they would make much more sense that way. Please, read up before buying your car, what types of assemblies they actually contain. Do not let your neglect support idiotic engineering. Greetings from Latvia.
ahhh!!! i knew it!!! the greenphissers did it again with their lunatic laws... another EGR valve that destroys ALL engines..
NO able minded manufacturer would do such an enormity,a steel belt running on steel pulleys
It also drives pretty smooth. No "shifting" feeling
I have an outback with a CVT. 150k miles or daily commuting and adventures in the Rockies, and zero issues so far. I actually like it a lot when on forest service roads, X-mode makes the car smarter than me when traversing roads in poor condition.....
Have two sisters who have Subarus. They absolutely love them.
You didn't do bad for not having only a couple of tools. Great evening and you have a great week.
I don't know why people hate CVT transmission but i have use mine for 7 years and no issues, one thing i like about it is the smooth driving when going on traffic, normal tranny will jerk when switch low gear and what's the fun in it
Oh wow, I’ve always wanted to see a tear down of a transmission on this channel. Honda had bad experiences with their auto transmissions in the past (1998-2004). But they’ve come a really long way with their “stepped” 5-speed & 6-speed autos since late 2007 onwards. & I haven’t heard about any troubles with their newer 10-Speed.
We own a 2014 Honda Accord 2.4L with a variation of this transmission & it has been wonderful ever since. The trick is to actually service the transmission with genuine Honda HCF Type-2 fluid (I change ours every 12-15,000 miles).
So far this Honda auto is the best interpretation of the CVT I’ve ever known.
I am impressed when I took my advanced transmission training in 1989 they had inline clutch packs and no real computer control. I am happy I went ahead and worked on my Bachelors in computer engineering and then my Masters Industrial Engineering. Never worked automotive after that Associates degree. I just joined the Air Force after the AS in Auto. I think it is cool to see how a mechanic beats on stuff and it works, that is called very good engineering.
I hope next Saturday’s video is the one where you reassemble the CVT belt! Can’t wait to watch!😂😂😂
I am both impressed and terrified by this contraption.
I have a 2015 Accord Sport with a CVT and I love it. It has paddle shifters so you can upshift and avoid that delay when mashing the gas. Love mine. 245',000 miles and still pulls strong.
16 coupe, it’s fun.
That was an interesting belt design. Did not expect that.
When you dumped all of the small pieces out , I yelled JACKPOT!
I second the comment from Tristan Martin about Precision Transmissions. If you plan on expanding into transmissions, it contains a ton of useful information. Also, be aware that some transmissions have insanely powerful springs in them (800+ lbs. compression) to where if you pull the wrong snap ring you *will* be seriously injured or even killed. These transmissions are explored and explained on that channel as well.
Please be safe.
I have never seen these high tension springs on any of PT videos ...i have watched quite a few. Not sure how he keeps track of screws though
@@nickmalone3143 There's not a lot of them, from what I've seen. Specialty applications, IIRC. Let me see if I can find one to link.
OK, found them. It's the 48RE overdrive that has the spring in it. Here's some linkage:
Two part series on a 48RE, part 2 has the spring
part 1 - th-cam.com/video/r7n1cxmrWQw/w-d-xo.html
part 2 - th-cam.com/video/Kk8wIgqJFOE/w-d-xo.html
mentioned, not shown - th-cam.com/video/PEpxBlTBP-Q/w-d-xo.html
There's a number of other videos on that transmission but I'm not sure if any others show the process and spring.