"Now, Cole, there is something else. Tires... is what wins a race." [see, King Richard? The numbers on the side of the cars wasn't the *only* thing that movie got right :p ]
True, but that goes without saying for all types of racing. This video focuses more on what is unique to oval racing, not what is present is all motorsports.
Jimmie Johnson was great at maximizing exit speed. The way he rotates the car mid corner sometimes is unreal. You could even see it in Indycar on the ovals he had different lines to everyone else
Had a couple races like that at Richmond in the I***car (fixed). I was running the bottom instead of the middle like everyone else, was fastest on track the entire time, and won both races by a considerable margin. All thanks to trail braking and proper in-car setup differences, which saved my tires and let me be consistently faster than everybody else.
I remember watching a Charlotte race back in the gen 4 era where one of the announcers noticed Jimmie's brakes were glowing, and he won the race, then next time the series went back there every car's brakes were glowing, everyone was suddenly racing it like Jimmie, but he still found that little bit extra in the turns every lap
Jimmie is a beast in oval races. Last season he found pace that seasoned racers did not have. Very average in road races, but probably the most entertaining on the ovals.
I've been a road racer for years and just now trying out ovals (mostly as a way to race without worrying about my iR, bad habit I know). Forgetting which corner I'm at is the biggest thing I'm struggling with for sure. As you said oval racing is a lot more mentally draining, as you can't zone out and run your laps the way you can in road, and every race there will be some laps I majorly mess up from losing that concentration. I've been trying the trucks at Darlington this week and it is NOT good to forget where you are there.
I'm Australian but went to college in America in the late 80s. Its unreal how you have describe almost perfectly what I heard a couple of legends say 30+ years ago. I became fascinated by the tactics of NASCAR. Like American football its very simple at one level but then also incredibly nuanced in some very subtle ways. One day I saw Daryl Waltrip go over his car and how it was setup. He talked about the position of the steering wheel which looked almost ridiculously close to his chest but it was so he could put his shoulder into it because of the fatigue of driving 500 miles every Sunday. On a very similar vein Jackie Stewart had quipped about how it was just driving in circles so someone said here's my car go do some laps. Jackie Stewart could drive as fast but after 20 laps he pulled over exhausted from it. On several occasions afterwards Jackie told people NOT to underestimate how hard NASCAR was. He described it as relentless speed and the ability to do perfect left hand turns because (he explained) being slower by just a tiny amount added up very quickly and there's no real way to make up time like they could in F1.
Experienced(ish) road racer, newbie oval racer checking in. I really appreciate these kind of videos. They're exactly what I've been looking for on TH-cam but have been unable to find.
I race on a dirt oval. I was always told that breaking will make you slower, but in order to not rely on the break to set the car up in the corner, the car has to be setup for that certain track. That the hardest part. Driving will come with seat time. The hard part is learning how to setup the race car in preparation for a race.
What type of dirt oval do you do race? I do winged and Non-winged sprint cars and midgets, for nonwing and midgets the brakes are almost needed to get through every turn fastest, winged cars depend on the track and line. I just run the default setup iracing has given and gotten 3 wins in 22 starts this year all in open setup races
@@tylerhendrickson5184 I race a USRA Limited Modified. It’s like street stock suspension on a dirt modified chassis. I’ve never been able to setup my old car in the corner without using the brakes, but I know of people who doesn’t used the brakes unless they are under caution, but they have a lot of knowledge about race cars. Idk how my new car will do. I just hope it turns better than the old one.
Perfectly said about the eggshell under the throttle. I was running some practice laps at Milwaukee last night, and I had to learn that the hard way. Once I started finding that proper groove with the brake and throttle and steering, I was running 31.3 laps. Still not the fastest, but respectable in my opinion
Best lesson I ever saw on tire wear was a race some years ago in the NASCAR Busch series. Can't remember exactly what track it was, but there were limits on tires allowed during the race. Every other team had used up its tire allotment except for Chad Little's. So with maybe 10-20 laps left (can't remember exactly, was a long time ago), a yellow flag comes out, Little goes in, gets the new tires, comes out in last place and within about 5 laps passes every car on the track and ends up winning by about half a lap.
@@GregBrownsWorldORacing It was even longer ago than that. Before John Deere. I can't remember the sponsor. A red & yellow car. Lipton or Bayer Aspirin. Something like that that. Benny Parson says, when the yellow flag came out, "Chad Little's gonna win this race." I thought, "Hell, he'll be in 30th place with 10 laps to go. How can he win?" Then Benny says, like he's talking right to me, "When you got new tires you feel like Superman". And Benny was right.
Ha, I think I mentioned during a practice or test we were recently all in, “I wish I could put a shit-talking road racer in this session and let them see how ‘easy’ ovals are.” 😂
I think they also do the thing where they hop on do 2 laps at track record pace go that’s easy and log off. Maintaining pace is incredibly difficult at a lot of tracks.
first time doing a 80 lap race and i swear i lost focus atleast 60 times doing that race, good thing for me i goto the gym so being tired isnt my weakness its doing the same thing over and over again and remembering where to break how much to turn and how much pressure to add to the throttle.
Solid advice, and I agree with attitudes changing. As an old NASCAR fan, I got used to the "They just go in circles" dismissals from road racing fans. There is a lot less of that now, and I'm wondering if racing sims have helped with that?
Yes, racing games\sims are helped with that, and racing games that are have modding in them too, which i found usefull creative tool, as game developer. That type of rhetoric usually came from arrogant Western Europeans that shitting on US 24\7 with no reason, while themselves living in shitholes, who never saw anything but their precious Formula 1, that they think is a "Queen of racing", which is obviously not. Its more tech behind it then stock car oval, but isn't even fastest. they not even know much about F1 even. Its just like a "status" for them Every track racing is "They just go in circles" at this point. If F1 or Le-man\GT\GTT has long track and more different curved turns - doesn't mean its exiting more then superspeedway racing. Its actually quite opposite. I live in eastern Europe, believe -they arrogant. We- easterners - are more opened minded to different type of racing, including ovals, and i was found out recently how hard is it even in racing game. Rally and oval are most mind lowing skill exhausting racing disciplinces i've ever race so far. I guess Indy car is most craziest! I still need to try it out, and i remember Automobilista 2 has it
Yeah I think sims / racing games giving people a little bit more of an understanding as to how driving a car fast really works. Even before watching this video I've started to appreciate NASCAR more because I realise how difficult it is to take a big car like that at the limit around each corner (no matter if its always left) faster than all your opponents. You're obviously only one mistake away from a crash. Only total numpties still think oval racing is easy if they can't even understand the above letalone the other nuances of oval racing.
The force feed back part and your arms getting tired is so true for me during a long green flag run my arms will get so tired like when I did Indycar at Richmond and it went green all 125 laps
I don't think anyone would question the skill of the drivers, but what I don't get is why people watch it. Like, yeah there are a few more accidents, but at its core it's just cars going in a circle for 2 hrs, I couldn't watch this that long as it just looks so boring, its like that one torture method where they drip water on you for hours. Same with street tracks (and tbh, I just watch recaps for that exact reason) but there is at least a bit more to look at than just the cars.
3:12 NOTE: "That your tires never go past the slip angle" is a nonsense statement. Slip Angle is a _measurement_ not a _threshold_ It's the difference between "straight forward' - a line cut through the middle of the tread on the tire - and the direction the tire is *actually* moving _in the moment;_ It's a thing that's *constantly* changing, and there is no 'slip angle' you can 'go past' in the sense you've used it here. You can have 'less than ideal' slip angles - think: drift car with a 45* slip angle...you can do it in an ARCA car...it's just slow. Speed in Oval Racing is just like speed in every other kind of racing - you're trying to maximize your use of the Traction Circle. Engineering Explained has a great video called "Traction Circle - Explained" from 2011 that covers the Traction Circle really, really well.
I understand what you’re saying but in my opinion sometimes in racing explanations for newcomers, explaining a feeling simply if not 100% accurately, is more productive than overwhelming someone with tons of information to explain a simple feeling
@@DJYeeJay I agree - and you present information in a way that even a 20-year 'mid-pack' veteran like me can learn a lot from. Where I would (and have!) drawn a bright line is using a term that has one _very specific_ meaning in a way that means anything BUT that - _because_ you're explaining things to newcomers, and they're going to use these new words the same way they're being presented - and that's why (to me) using the the terms 100% accurately in their correct context is as or more important than making the context 'easy' for a newcomer. Especially when the differences are So, so, so ridiculously tiny, but the change in meaning and accuracy is huge. "never go past the slip angle" vs. "never go past the _ideal_ slip angle" - 'specially when you immediately describe the consequences of exceeding the _ideal_ slip angle in the corner - increased tire wear and the car going where you don't intend for it to go - into the infield, or into the wall, in the worst case. When I ponder explaining something to a sim racer, I imagine a scenario where they wind up being like me, and move from sim-racing into local racing (autocross, for me. I loved campaigning my little $500 MR2) and imagine them having a conversation with someone who's raced in meatspace for a long time, and I try to explain things in a way that they can have a future conversation with Randy Pobst (as I did) and be able to hold their own - and not come off as a 'only' a dumb sim-racer.
4:57 _/me raises hand_ I've been in the No Toad Racing League (a name you _might_ recognize _somewhere_ in this video 😹) since *2004...* This week is my 2 year anniversary on iRacing and I've entered *52* public oval races vs. *129* No Toad League races. (also, if you *are* a road racer, in No Toad Racing League, I run a 'semi-road' series Wednesdays that is something a little different every week - a variety of Indycar, GT3, iRX, and some wacky and fun races like the Riley 2008 Prototype car at Talladega Superspeedway...at night.)
I am a road racer and I have dabbled in ovals on iRacing. From the shortest ones to superspeedways. I don't mind running them every now and then, and I have had very enjoyable races. What really puts me off is not the concept of the oval, but stock cars. Most oval races I liked were in openwheelers. For me stock cars are too heavy, with horribly bad boaty suspension and the worst brakes ever. And, above street stock, they are ridiculously over powered, especially for short tracks. I just can't enjoy spending all race in a single gear, between no throttle and half throttle. It feels like driving a car that is broken, a car that I cannot lean on, I cannot depend on. A car that works against me instead of with me. I just saw a short interview with Santino Ferrucci after Indy Road practice, which kind of captures why I don't want to drive stock cars. They are simply bad cars. Q. What's the brake marker in the Indy car, what's the brake marker in the Xfinity car? A. So in turn one here in the IndyCar we're going 190 miles an hour braking at like the 300-350. The stock car you maybe hit 160-165 and you're braking before the pit lane wall ends. So there's not even a marker that goes that far back. I mean it's like a 1000 feet, 900 feet.
See, that's exactly what makes it interesting to me. Perhaps it's the endurance/rally driver in me that takes pride in finding the limits of whatever machine I have at hand, and nursing it to the finish. I love a perfectly dialed in car as much as anyone else, but I also love knowing that I can take an ill-handling car and quickly find it's limits and extract as much speed as possible from it without causing further damage. I've autocrossed everything from a 93 gmc suburban and 4wd jeep pickup, to miatas and vettes. I'll never forget the time I took a volvo station wagon to an autocross and someone in a 350z with a bewildered expression asked, "how are you beating me?" I don't say that to brag, I'm certainly not the fastest driver even in our local scca chapter, but I'm simply pointing out that a car doesn't have to be perfect to be fun at a race. ;)
I'm a simracer since 1999-ish with Grand Prix Legends. Then tried ovals with NR2003 around 2005/6. It was a steep learning curve, and there wasn't a lot of studying material available back then. Then life got in the way, and I stopped racing completely. Jumped back into iRacing in 2021, and ovals have been my favorite discipline. Mostly A/B/C fixed, and the 87's. I grew up and lived in countries with a road-only racing culture, so I learn something new in every race I start, sometimes I miss some of the oval etiquette and knowledge, other times I'm not on the right strategy, or poorly positioned on the track... but I'm really enjoying the whole process, improving little by little every time. Watching your videos certainly helps a whole lot.
I once joined in an oval race and it was thrilling. It was a super speedway with skip barber car and demanded much more conentration than a regular road race. Sadly I was involved in a crash, and after that the gap between car was too big, and it was boring to drive alone
I'm mainly a Road Racer, but somehow got to A lic on oval running Talladega and Daytona, and Indycar at Indi but never much more than that. I recently signed up in a league with the B car, and learning how to properly race oval has been a blast. So far I've had to learn Darlington, Michigan, and Chicagoland, plus all of what you mentioned in this video. Having to learn all these track which honestly look all the same to me from the outside, but once you get in there each one has its uniqueness, on top of learning all apply these new and old techniques on the oval, and then watching my progress getting better all the time, it's really put some enjoyment back into iracing for me. Thanks for this videox
Oval racing, especially with high lap counts, _is_ a form of endurance racing. the perfection needed, the lack of down time, and the closeness of the races. it is extremely demanding.
As a primarily oval racer and seeing people say the same concepts apply to road racing, I’ve won and competed for wins on road racing and that just isn’t the case. Road racing I can hit the same marks every lap with very little change in the handling or speed of the car. Both are unique challenges in road racing challenges how close you can push your car off a corner consistently compared to oval racing which is who can spend the least amount of time and tires making a pass and making up time.
On superspeedway racing Be selfish. If you get a run or have a chance don't be afraid to take it. Getting up front and dictating the pace of the field is important. If you can get to the lead or up close to the lead and click off laps, it gets you a much better chance of winning. Look Ahead and predict. If you get a run, figure out what's gonna happen and what the guys near you will react. it's the difference between getting a good position or wiping out half the field. don't be afraid to dip below the yellow line if it means avoiding a crash, or shunting someone into the next zipcode. Braking suddenly or letting off can cause the guy behind you to just smash you into the big one. Watch other drivers. This is the most important thing. keep an eye out and ear out in voice chat if someone is slowing up a line or weaving in the lines. if someone is struggling to hold lines or can't keep it straight, make sure to not be near them if they cause something to go wrong. Likewise, pay attention to who is really good at pushing or being the pusher. Learn your gut. you're gonna have moments where you need to pull out and go to the back if things get frisky. but you gotta know when. 45 laps to go at dega, probably best to ride in the back if people are getting very racy. but 10 laps to go, well, you just gotta deal. It's all about what you see and this varies moment to moment. In half/full distance races, make sure to just survive. most of the longer distance races are gonna basically be about survival. Stay on the lead lap, and keep your wits about you. Still, keep yourself in position to win. 99% of the time you're not gonna be able to zoom to the front suddenly. when the time comes try to push for the top 5 or in some position to be a factor. Also this goes unsaid, but watch your temps. nose to tail pushing rises them up fast and I've seen even veteran SS guys blow engines suddenly pushing too hard. Temps are a resource so make sure to use them wisely. can be the difference between pushing a guy out to the lead and causing a line to fail.
To that point, I keep hearing about bump drafting but I have no idea what it is or how it works. A video on that at some point would probably be widely appreciateed.
Bump drafting is essentially hitting a car's rear bumper and transferring your energy into their car to go faster. You don't want to run someone over, just a little bump.
Yeah what Yappit said. Some nuances to bump drafting are that many cars noses don’t line up flush with the bumper making it really easy to wreck a car while attempting to bump draft. Stock cars can also kinda stick together when bump drafting due to aero and make a tandem of cars that can go a lot faster than even the normal draft pack. But be careful because the car behind will overheat their engine really fast like this, usually within a lap or 2 so it has to be used only for big moments
Bump drafting means to literally gently push your front bumper up into the rear bumper of the car in front of you and then continue to push them full throttle as you work together to both go faster than you could alone. The rear car is moving faster because it's drafting behind the front car so rather than go around him and eventually lose speed anyways, you gently get on their rear bumper and push them with your extra speed from drafting. This can allow a whole train of cars to pull away from the pack and go much faster than any of them could on their own. Crazy concept huh? Actually working WITH the people you're trying to beat to give both of you a better position. Also sets up great duels at the end when the truce is off, hehe. Bump drafting is usually reserved for super speedways and there are certain cars you just don't attempt it in like the Arca car. Also you should really start the bump draft on a straight, preferably the beginning of a straight. Starting a bump draft going into corner entry is a great way to spin out the person in front of you and make an enemy. Good bump drafting takes practice, patience and balls of steel from both cars.
When to bump draft in the ARCA car - NEVER. NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER use the ARCA bumper. DO. NOT. DO. IT. The bumpers on the ARCA don't line up, and it won't be a 'bump draft' - you'll lift the rear tires off the ground and turn the guy ahead of you hard into the wall, setting up a crash that people can't avoid, thus ending a LOT of people's races - Do Not Pass Go, Do Not Collect $200. The rest of the NASCARs do line up, but the Trucks have very fragile aero, and even a light wall brush can send you sailing backward through the field...so weigh the risk/reward for bumping in the trucks knowing that... Finally, _The Iceberg_ has a great video called "The Complete History of Tandem Drafting" that does a good job explaining how NASCAR evolved the bump draft over time.
A few things to remember if you're going to start trying it: - Avoid bumpdrafting in corners. Unless you're super-experienced and the person in front also knows what they're doing, it'll only lead to wrecks. - Don't bumpdraft anyone in the draft already. They're making sure not to hit the person in front of them and don't need your help. - Make sure you can consistantly drive in a straight line before trying it, and make sure the person you're going to bump can do the same. Bumping someone who is constantly adjusting their line is going to lead to off-centre bumping, and potential wrecking. - Over time, you will come to the realisation that just getting and staying really close and relying on the air-cushion between your cars achieves much the same effect, and you'll use the bump a lot less.
I summarize it as oval racing is much more of tactical racing vs road racing being much more about reflexes and finding the perfect line. Road racing might be more of "pure" racing and thats why we see some elitist attitudes towards oval racing. With road racing its more like driver vs the track, but in oval racing its more driver vs driver. And imo thats why oval racers are more drawn to leagues. That strategic element of how you deal with other drivers is such a huge part of oval racing and we don't really get the same experience in a lobby race
ive started oval racing on iracing and i can confirm that i find it more mentally draining than road racing, very stressful when you have somone on your bumper for 10 laps knowing that 1 mistake could cause absolute chaos. Although i do find the drivers to be a lot more talkative and willing to help with bump drafting.
My favorite example of how corners are more than they appear is new Atlanta. At the beginning of the race the track, turns 1 and 2 are in the sunlight. But as it goes on, 2 and eventually 1 get covered in shade. It completely changes the groove that has the fastest line and means cars that started the race fast could wind up being kinda slow, and visa versa.
I love single seater and after all these years playing F1 games and all that, I decided to get into iRacing IndyCar C fixed, mainly because of Empty Box. Man I can't tell how often I wrecked myself hitting the wall. It took me a long time to learn about the car, the tracks and tyres. Nowadays, when my brain is sorting out these issues in the background, I can focus on racing. And it is a blast.
Part of the tire strategy is also your setup - another much deeper level of intricacy which doesn't get talked about by the "haha you like car go left" crowd. Sure, you can use more downforce on tracks like New Hampshire with just a 2 degree bank - and you can also use a lower tire pressure and softer suspension, but your tire wear will now ensure that you're one of the first people to enter to the pits. So you could, for example, in qualifying, set up your car to run high downforce and low tire pressure to get a high grid start, and then in the race use a lower downforce and higher tire pressure to ensure that your tires last for a longer period of time - this could turn your race into a 2 stopper instead of a 3 stopper which means, while you don't get around the track as fast as everyone else, your tires make sure you're putting in more laps between pits than everyone else, too.
I kinda wanna see this same vid but switched around, things oval racers don’t understand about road racing, cause there r oval racers that have zero clue when it comes to road racing, ESPECIALLY NASCAR fans in general. Cause I race both ovals and road courses, though I prefer road racing more cause that’s what I enjoy and it’s more challenging, and at least to me oval racing is honestly easy once ya get it down. Like the part where ya say oval racing is mentally challenging, maybe others think it is but to me and maybe others think this but it honestly feels easy when it comes to oval racing. I think the only times I’m like stressing on an oval is on certain short tracks with certain series mainly cause I’m just trying to hit my marks and not be holding up guys behind me or not hit anyone or be hit. Where as road racing it doesn’t matter what car you’re running u gotta hit your marks every corner every lap. U can go through one corner one lap and then the next lap and ya mess up that same corner by either missing the apex or running wide and getting an off track. Maybe people will understand where I’m getting or people will think “wOw, wHaT a pRiCk fOr sAyInG tHiS!” That’s just what I think. Ya wanna think that, doesn’t matter what u race if you’re an oval racer, road racer, hell even a dirt racer, u can go run an oval and then a road course and see what y’all think.
When Marcos Ambrose came from V8 Supercar road racing in Australia to NASCAR about 15 years ago, he said the biggest thing he needed to learn is that you need to learn is how to set up each wheel individually, not just the wheels in pairs. [I had a Very Good Teacher on chassis setup: My late ex-FIL Jack Friedman was a mechanic on Rufus' 1963 Indy 500 winning car... And he had the official sticker on his toolbox.]
grew up absolutely despising the thought of oval and drag racing was always a more purist “driver” enjoyer like touge and road course stuff, got into drag stuff and oval stuff and gotta say its just fun
As a low split driver who can get quite a few wins, but struggles overall with consistency, I can say one thing. Never underestimate just how far saving tires can go. It will almost always pay big dividends at the end. If you are leading a race early and you get like a 3 second lead, you are doing it wrong. A gap is just your clearance to save harder. Sometimes the most satisfying thing is to manage an intermediate race from the front so well, that when the car behind you starts to gain with about 10 to go, you pull an extra tenth or two out of your pocket for good measure.
even in games oval racing is terribly difficult. when youre doing over 200mph and have cars not even 2 inches away constantly is draining. i couldnt imagine it in real life
My thoughts on ovals are that they are extremely simple, but not the way that sounds. Road tracks are to me like a painting, great art, very complex. Ovals, are to me, like drawing a circle, hundreds of times over itself. Where in a painting each stroke hides your mistakes and you don't need to be perfect, drawing primitives only magnifies your mistakes and imperfections. Maybe its not as fancy or beautiful as a painting, but is it any less art?
Ams2 oval racing lobbies are hilarious im a mid road course driver but an excellent oval racer very few people understand any oval discipline I won a race at gateway by 16 seconds
I’ll share this video with anyone that talks smack about NASCAR- you’ve explained very eloquently the differences in racing ovals vs road courses. Strategy is very different! 👍🏻
Many drivers like to go hammer down as far as possible then hit the brakes.. not good at all always faster to ease out a bit early and decide how much you want the nose to drop or how fast.. more brake = more early bite and less bite from center out.. less brake = less dive and a smoother corner entry.
I’m a real life dirt oval racer in Australia, I race in SSA Junior Sedans and this is pretty much exactly what you wanna learn for dirt ovals as well. Apart from Pit strategies, we only do about 12 laps. Oh by the way SSA JS is FWD
It is interesting to watch a strictly road course racer change to ovals as well. I remember back in the 90's when F1 legend Nigal Mansel, did a season in Indy cars. He dominated the road courses, (no real surprise there) but had a lot of difficulty with the ovals, and even made his distain for them well known.
Hey mate, this is a great video, what would be great is having some background footage thst relates more to the topic you're talking about. When you're talking about braking a visual example would be awesome to see along with the audio! Great video though
I agree with you, tbh this was a low effort video compared to some others, and it seems my low effort vids end up being the ones that get recommended to people lol
@DJ Yee-J TH-cam algorithm things haha, I'm trying to get into some oval racing and it's very interesting to learn some of the different nuances and little things that help in oval racing. I'm a visual learner so just need that little bit extra to help me out. I've seen a few of your videos and the topics are all great
I know this is for Iracing but also is great to show why real life oval races are still tough for the drivers compared to road racing drivers especially to certain road racing series fans
A tip I found on super speedways is to not get in to a battle up front to soon in a race as you run a higher risk of a wreck I spend most my speedway races drafting and only passing when I feel its safe to I try not to push hard untill the last 10 to 15 laps of a race as learnt the hard way about tires wear.
Superspeedway wins takes a mountain of skill, with the biggest skill being how quick you are in and out of the pits. Thats what decides most of them. That, and the team with you.
I just find it boring, and thus struggle to understand the McMurican obsession with roundy-round racing. The only good roundy-round racing is on dirt tracks.
The ones who show they can draft and push someone to the front are often the ones who are wrecked out in crashes, at least in the lower official races.
I tried street stock after 1 year since i started iRacing, i love it, 5 cars in a tenth and i was the one in the middle, all wrecked but i really enjoyed that race, also my livery of ricky bobby and goatifi makes me laugh when i see a replay
You need to feature Indycar footage when discussing ovals and road course racing as it's really the only series that really does both throughout the season. Indycar requires the most diverse set of driving skills
Thanks to a lot of exposure including sim racing, a lot of the snobs, especially European F1 snobs, are now more accepting of oval racing as something that requires skill. Sure, oval racing skills don't exactly transfer to road racing (and that fact is still a point that the F1 snobs still argue about since there are F1 drivers who drove NASCAR well but no NASCAR driver has made it to F1 but forgetting about how Indycar produced some F1 stars in the past) but oval racing does have a lot of finesse into it. And you need to learn that finesse like how Fernando Alonso studied the way the Indy 500 is driven for months before even doing the rookie test, and that is why he manages a top 10 start in 2017 (not because Indy has a "lower standard" as claimed by Lewis Hamilton). Of course, people who start in ovals do make for some excellent road racers.
I love racing in rookie and watching the new players all start hitting the wall in the last 10 laps because they dont understand that even just 10% break and slight throttle lift would keep the average speed up while allowing them to keep out of the outside wall as they would have better rotation of the car, if you run charlotte flat out out by about the last 10 to 12 laps of a race your tires will be cooked in the rookies as no new sets of tires in them shorter races, lost a few at charlotte due to burning the tires up so I get passed easy on the last 5 or so laps.
Consistency and being smooth on the wheel is key in oval racing. You've got to hit your marks lap after lap. The difference among competitors could be a few hundredths to tenths a lap. If you get behind, you can't make up the gap as quickly as you would in road racing. I'd be happier than a pig in shit when I'd get back to the hauler to check lap times and see 95% was within a tenth of each other.
Fun fact - The reason the cars in the video look like they’re sliding or drifting around corners is because the bodies are actually mounted sideways to an extent. The aerodynamic effects of this help push the car to the left slightly, and thus make left turns faster and easier.
@@DJYeeJay idc the information is more important than a little recognition. I didn’t comment that because I wanted people to think I know ovals I commented that because I want people to know that about ovals!
2:20 one thing ive done a few times on the superspeedway tracks is forget to lift off when a crash happens . like... a crash happens ahead of me.... and i just keep my foot planted on the gas.... end up crashing into the side of Kurt Bush LOL you have had your foot in that position for 300+ laps....and your brain just forgets that you even have that foot . idk.... its hard to explain.... its like being "velocitized" on a highway doing 75mph when you slow down to 25.... it feels REALLY slow (or, the opposite also applies.... after doing 75 for miles and miles.... doing 95 feels like 50) . . . but ya.... you have not moved that foot even 1 millimeter for 450 miles and then you suddenly have to react with only 0.25 seconds to think . and i just leave my foot down (or even press the gas harder.... thinking im pushing the brake) its SO strange..... and it just makes you feel dumb after lol . . anyone else know what i mean?
I wonder if these great vids translate into any measurable increase in Iracing Oval Rookies participation? Particularly from non-US drivers. I reckon they might.
One of the biggest things in ovals is patience a lot of guys wanna race as hard as they can soon as the race starts and they will wreck themselves and others for that next spot even if it’s lap one of a 200 lap race I can’t tell you how often I laugh when a guy is racing so hard on the first 10 laps and then when I drive back by him still saving and being patient not really trying to race him just working my strategy and he is all over the place trying everything he can to hold on to that spot lol But on the flip side those guys are the ones that tend to cause the bigger crashes early in the race so it’s a love hate deal for me. But patience is huge in road racing I’ve noticed if your faster than someone they will let you by vs trying to race someone who is faster and risk crashing especially early in the race. Ovals is a different story you can expect multiple ppl to race has hard as they can no matter how much faster you are than them but that’s where patience comes in and once they use up their stuff no matter how hard they try they typically can’t keep up or they wind up in the pits with a wadded up car one of the two
dale Sr was a hell of a driver..... but it still took him DECADES to win at dayton super speedways are definitely more of a "crapshoot" than road races/short tracks . you can do things to improve your odds (best engine, best setup, best areo, maybe some NOS for qualifying..... but missing the wrecks and having a teammate or 2 are the best ways) . like a slow car with a good teammate will win WAY more often than the fastest car with no help and bad pit strategy
One of the phrases I heard a long time ago about the difference between oval and road racing. With road racing, you prioritize racing the track, and the car. With oval, you prioritize racing the other drivers around you, and managing the tires
Using the breaks on an intermediate oval sounds so counterintuitive but I’m going to start using it! …as in sun racing I never break on intermediates but maybe that’s where I’m going wrong! … while in general I prefer road racing as a Brit I’m frustrated by how much oval racing is underrated in Europe as a whole … to me short oval racing is very similar to an medium fast road course … with constant medium speed corners … yes it’s easier qualifying and learning the racing line then typicall road tracks but like you said the race is more hard work for most off the field … super speedway’s racing to me has more in common with cycling track and road racing where spending the majority off the race in the leaders slipstream before a last minute sprint for the line for the win is generally the way to win plus avoiding the big crashes … like I said superspeedways more in common with Olympic and Tour de France cycling then typical oval and road racing!… as an f1 I love the extra variety ovals give to Indycar and NASCAR while f1 tracks have lost a bit off wide variety in road courses since the mid 1990’s
a quick video on any indycar driver who came from any other racing series (like grosjean) will let you know how setup is different and how intense oval racing can get
Long runs with huge amounts of tire wear are where the best show up and perform. Jeff Gordon was one of, if not the best under these conditions. Seemed like as the runs went long, he’d get faster and faster.
His dirt racing background had something to do with that. He was used to the car sliding around, as it does on dirt, and was an expert on driving a "loose" car, so he lost less speed than other drivers when his tires started going away. Same for Tony Stewart or, for a current driver, Kyle Larson.
Does the NTRL follow the NASCAR schedule? I'm a big NASCAR fan, and one of the big reasons I love the official races on iRacing is that I get to race the track all week, then see the professionals drive it on the weekend. If they do, I'm 100% in. I hate the randomness that comes with the official races, and I find that I'm one of the more consistent and safe drivers. Not necessarily up front, but most incidents I'm involves are, let's say, "not my fault". If I can get myself in with some drivers that are more in that mindset, I think I could excel and have a good time.
The mentality of oval racing seems to me like it's a lot like endurance racing. I'm for sure more of a road guy but I have fun doing the odd oval official
As someone who’s 5,000 IR on both oval and road. There is no doubt oval takes a lot more skill than road. Oval, you really need to know how to wheel a car, and understand track changes and manage tires. Road… tires are meh, and honestly… more reps spent on the track the better you get but other than that no much skill when it comes to the racing aspect.
The main thing about oval racing every lap has to be consistant or else you will lose time. Theres no im slow in sector one but can make it up in sector 3. If you mess up a little bit on ovals your going to lose spots
what kind of alignment to oval track guys use? some 3/8 track guys ive seen have what looks like tweaked cars but grip like crazy, and its just the set up for this kind of racing
if u start in superspeedway with the idea to win you already f... if u drive a 1.5 miles with what should be the driving lane well you never try anything else just follow what it should be!! for me I'm an outside lane also very lose (sliding) to make sure i will not be a 20 lappers run and don't ever forget that a setup will never be done... were u start what's your number what is the split you racing track temps etc..
Great video man! But there is still one question unanswered, why the outside lane is faster/slower in a determined track? I never understand how the outside lane can be faster
One thing to consider is how much banking a given lane has, more banking means more grip. A lot of the time the fastest lane on ovals is the lowest lane that has the most banking. But also these days on iRacing honestly it just comes down to how the devs distribute the grip at a given track. With dynamic track, the answer was a bit more interesting, but we'll see if that ever comes back.
sry but even with the explanations I found it pretty boring lol. I knew that driving this is a lot more difficult than it looks (that´s just common sense tbh) but that isn´t rlly making it more interesting to me, I want a very diverse race with diverse cars, diverse movements, a diverse "track environment" during the race and diverse tactics and techniques and I don´t find enough of that in oval racing
as a new racer, I like your quailifying videos. I am looking for a guide on how to read tire wear / temps after a pit stop or race where you reiew the tire % and tire temps. Do you have a video that covers that? Thanks
In general you want the right side tire %s to be as even as possible. As for heat I don’t keep track too often of what I want my temps to be unless I’m really serious about a race. But basically I get a baseline from a run where I run easy and then try things and see how much temps go up
It’s amazing to see all the f1 eurotards saying that nascar is too easy and requires no skill. There is a reason why no f1 drivers have ever won a nascar race on an oval and their careers are usually over in 1-2 years. Nascar is brutal and people in Europe don’t know this because all they know is touring cars and open wheel
It amazes me how important braking, pit strategy, and tire conservation are in oval racing.
hey! nice to see you here! ive learned braking and even sometimes a lift at the perfect time gets good rotation at some places.
"Now, Cole, there is something else. Tires... is what wins a race." [see, King Richard? The numbers on the side of the cars wasn't the *only* thing that movie got right :p ]
Love your videos man
Nope: Chassis setup is the most important thing in paved oval racing.
True, but that goes without saying for all types of racing. This video focuses more on what is unique to oval racing, not what is present is all motorsports.
Jimmie Johnson was great at maximizing exit speed. The way he rotates the car mid corner sometimes is unreal. You could even see it in Indycar on the ovals he had different lines to everyone else
Had a couple races like that at Richmond in the I***car (fixed). I was running the bottom instead of the middle like everyone else, was fastest on track the entire time, and won both races by a considerable margin. All thanks to trail braking and proper in-car setup differences, which saved my tires and let me be consistently faster than everybody else.
He is 7 time champion for a reason
I remember watching a Charlotte race back in the gen 4 era where one of the announcers noticed Jimmie's brakes were glowing, and he won the race, then next time the series went back there every car's brakes were glowing, everyone was suddenly racing it like Jimmie, but he still found that little bit extra in the turns every lap
Jimmie is a beast in oval races. Last season he found pace that seasoned racers did not have. Very average in road races, but probably the most entertaining on the ovals.
Kinda sad when they started broadcasting NASCAR in my country, he was retired already.
That first degree murder at 1:04 😂
I had to rewind the first time because I wasn't sure if someone ate shit or it was my mind messing with me 😂
as soon as i saw that i was like “oh my god that’s murder”
completely smashed 😂
I've been a road racer for years and just now trying out ovals (mostly as a way to race without worrying about my iR, bad habit I know). Forgetting which corner I'm at is the biggest thing I'm struggling with for sure. As you said oval racing is a lot more mentally draining, as you can't zone out and run your laps the way you can in road, and every race there will be some laps I majorly mess up from losing that concentration. I've been trying the trucks at Darlington this week and it is NOT good to forget where you are there.
Every oval has a personality.. you will learn them as you go along... where the bite is.. where that little drop off is etc.
Indy looks easy but if you lose concentration it will bite you it looks like 4 90 degree corners than you drive and each corner feels so different
You'll get your Darlington stripe across the side of your car from hitting that wall 15 times in 1 race like everyone else lol
I'm Australian but went to college in America in the late 80s.
Its unreal how you have describe almost perfectly what I heard a couple of legends say 30+ years ago.
I became fascinated by the tactics of NASCAR. Like American football its very simple at one level but then also incredibly nuanced in some very subtle ways.
One day I saw Daryl Waltrip go over his car and how it was setup. He talked about the position of the steering wheel which looked almost ridiculously close to his chest but it was so he could put his shoulder into it because of the fatigue of driving 500 miles every Sunday.
On a very similar vein Jackie Stewart had quipped about how it was just driving in circles so someone said here's my car go do some laps. Jackie Stewart could drive as fast but after 20 laps he pulled over exhausted from it. On several occasions afterwards Jackie told people NOT to underestimate how hard NASCAR was. He described it as relentless speed and the ability to do perfect left hand turns because (he explained) being slower by just a tiny amount added up very quickly and there's no real way to make up time like they could in F1.
Very cool experiences thanks for sharing!
Experienced(ish) road racer, newbie oval racer checking in. I really appreciate these kind of videos. They're exactly what I've been looking for on TH-cam but have been unable to find.
Yeah man! We can’t expect oval racing to grow if no one is out there spreading the good news 🤣
I race on a dirt oval. I was always told that breaking will make you slower, but in order to not rely on the break to set the car up in the corner, the car has to be setup for that certain track. That the hardest part. Driving will come with seat time. The hard part is learning how to setup the race car in preparation for a race.
What type of dirt oval do you do race? I do winged and Non-winged sprint cars and midgets, for nonwing and midgets the brakes are almost needed to get through every turn fastest, winged cars depend on the track and line. I just run the default setup iracing has given and gotten 3 wins in 22 starts this year all in open setup races
@@tylerhendrickson5184 I race a USRA Limited Modified. It’s like street stock suspension on a dirt modified chassis. I’ve never been able to setup my old car in the corner without using the brakes, but I know of people who doesn’t used the brakes unless they are under caution, but they have a lot of knowledge about race cars. Idk how my new car will do. I just hope it turns better than the old one.
Perfectly said about the eggshell under the throttle. I was running some practice laps at Milwaukee last night, and I had to learn that the hard way. Once I started finding that proper groove with the brake and throttle and steering, I was running 31.3 laps. Still not the fastest, but respectable in my opinion
As a lifetime Nascar fan, this video addresses things that I wish more people did on a regular basis. Very great points!
Best lesson I ever saw on tire wear was a race some years ago in the NASCAR Busch series. Can't remember exactly what track it was, but there were limits on tires allowed during the race. Every other team had used up its tire allotment except for Chad Little's. So with maybe 10-20 laps left (can't remember exactly, was a long time ago), a yellow flag comes out, Little goes in, gets the new tires, comes out in last place and within about 5 laps passes every car on the track and ends up winning by about half a lap.
It happens Must have been a while ago. Chad was near the front a lot in that Green & Yellow John Deere car. Not so much in Cup but in the Busch Series
@@GregBrownsWorldORacing It was even longer ago than that. Before John Deere. I can't remember the sponsor. A red & yellow car. Lipton or Bayer Aspirin. Something like that that. Benny Parson says, when the yellow flag came out, "Chad Little's gonna win this race." I thought, "Hell, he'll be in 30th place with 10 laps to go. How can he win?" Then Benny says, like he's talking right to me, "When you got new tires you feel like Superman". And Benny was right.
Ha, I think I mentioned during a practice or test we were recently all in, “I wish I could put a shit-talking road racer in this session and let them see how ‘easy’ ovals are.” 😂
I think they also do the thing where they hop on do 2 laps at track record pace go that’s easy and log off. Maintaining pace is incredibly difficult at a lot of tracks.
first time doing a 80 lap race and i swear i lost focus atleast 60 times doing that race, good thing for me i goto the gym so being tired isnt my weakness its doing the same thing over and over again and remembering where to break how much to turn and how much pressure to add to the throttle.
As a 4400 ir oval racer, even I needed to hear this. Great video
Solid advice, and I agree with attitudes changing. As an old NASCAR fan, I got used to the "They just go in circles" dismissals from road racing fans. There is a lot less of that now, and I'm wondering if racing sims have helped with that?
I'd say a combination of Sims and having more than 2 road courses, with two of them being easily recognized by formula fans.
Yes, racing games\sims are helped with that, and racing games that are have modding in them too, which i found usefull creative tool, as game developer.
That type of rhetoric usually came from arrogant Western Europeans that shitting on US 24\7 with no reason, while themselves living in shitholes, who never saw anything but their precious Formula 1, that they think is a "Queen of racing", which is obviously not. Its more tech behind it then stock car oval, but isn't even fastest. they not even know much about F1 even. Its just like a "status" for them
Every track racing is "They just go in circles" at this point.
If F1 or Le-man\GT\GTT has long track and more different curved turns - doesn't mean its exiting more then superspeedway racing.
Its actually quite opposite.
I live in eastern Europe, believe -they arrogant.
We- easterners - are more opened minded to different type of racing, including ovals, and i was found out recently how hard is it even in racing game.
Rally and oval are most mind lowing skill exhausting racing disciplinces i've ever race so far. I guess Indy car is most craziest! I still need to try it out, and i remember Automobilista 2 has it
Yeah I think sims / racing games giving people a little bit more of an understanding as to how driving a car fast really works.
Even before watching this video I've started to appreciate NASCAR more because I realise how difficult it is to take a big car like that at the limit around each corner (no matter if its always left) faster than all your opponents. You're obviously only one mistake away from a crash.
Only total numpties still think oval racing is easy if they can't even understand the above letalone the other nuances of oval racing.
The force feed back part and your arms getting tired is so true for me during a long green flag run my arms will get so tired like when I did Indycar at Richmond and it went green all 125 laps
I don't think anyone would question the skill of the drivers, but what I don't get is why people watch it. Like, yeah there are a few more accidents, but at its core it's just cars going in a circle for 2 hrs, I couldn't watch this that long as it just looks so boring, its like that one torture method where they drip water on you for hours. Same with street tracks (and tbh, I just watch recaps for that exact reason) but there is at least a bit more to look at than just the cars.
Making left turns for hours. That is why only room temperature IQ people follow NASCAR
While I don't like watching it, I could understand why, there's much more action than in other racing series such as F1 or WEC
3:12 NOTE: "That your tires never go past the slip angle" is a nonsense statement. Slip Angle is a _measurement_ not a _threshold_ It's the difference between "straight forward' - a line cut through the middle of the tread on the tire - and the direction the tire is *actually* moving _in the moment;_ It's a thing that's *constantly* changing, and there is no 'slip angle' you can 'go past' in the sense you've used it here. You can have 'less than ideal' slip angles - think: drift car with a 45* slip angle...you can do it in an ARCA car...it's just slow.
Speed in Oval Racing is just like speed in every other kind of racing - you're trying to maximize your use of the Traction Circle.
Engineering Explained has a great video called "Traction Circle - Explained" from 2011 that covers the Traction Circle really, really well.
I understand what you’re saying but in my opinion sometimes in racing explanations for newcomers, explaining a feeling simply if not 100% accurately, is more productive than overwhelming someone with tons of information to explain a simple feeling
@@DJYeeJay I agree - and you present information in a way that even a 20-year 'mid-pack' veteran like me can learn a lot from.
Where I would (and have!) drawn a bright line is using a term that has one _very specific_ meaning in a way that means anything BUT that - _because_ you're explaining things to newcomers, and they're going to use these new words the same way they're being presented - and that's why (to me) using the the terms 100% accurately in their correct context is as or more important than making the context 'easy' for a newcomer. Especially when the differences are So, so, so ridiculously tiny, but the change in meaning and accuracy is huge. "never go past the slip angle" vs. "never go past the _ideal_ slip angle" - 'specially when you immediately describe the consequences of exceeding the _ideal_ slip angle in the corner - increased tire wear and the car going where you don't intend for it to go - into the infield, or into the wall, in the worst case.
When I ponder explaining something to a sim racer, I imagine a scenario where they wind up being like me, and move from sim-racing into local racing (autocross, for me. I loved campaigning my little $500 MR2) and imagine them having a conversation with someone who's raced in meatspace for a long time, and I try to explain things in a way that they can have a future conversation with Randy Pobst (as I did) and be able to hold their own - and not come off as a 'only' a dumb sim-racer.
4:57 _/me raises hand_
I've been in the No Toad Racing League (a name you _might_ recognize _somewhere_ in this video 😹) since *2004...*
This week is my 2 year anniversary on iRacing and I've entered *52* public oval races vs. *129* No Toad League races.
(also, if you *are* a road racer, in No Toad Racing League, I run a 'semi-road' series Wednesdays that is something a little different every week - a variety of Indycar, GT3, iRX, and some wacky and fun races like the Riley 2008 Prototype car at Talladega Superspeedway...at night.)
I am a road racer and I have dabbled in ovals on iRacing. From the shortest ones to superspeedways. I don't mind running them every now and then, and I have had very enjoyable races. What really puts me off is not the concept of the oval, but stock cars. Most oval races I liked were in openwheelers.
For me stock cars are too heavy, with horribly bad boaty suspension and the worst brakes ever. And, above street stock, they are ridiculously over powered, especially for short tracks. I just can't enjoy spending all race in a single gear, between no throttle and half throttle.
It feels like driving a car that is broken, a car that I cannot lean on, I cannot depend on. A car that works against me instead of with me.
I just saw a short interview with Santino Ferrucci after Indy Road practice, which kind of captures why I don't want to drive stock cars. They are simply bad cars.
Q. What's the brake marker in the Indy car, what's the brake marker in the Xfinity car?
A. So in turn one here in the IndyCar we're going 190 miles an hour braking at like the 300-350. The stock car you maybe hit 160-165 and you're braking before the pit lane wall ends. So there's not even a marker that goes that far back. I mean it's like a 1000 feet, 900 feet.
See, that's exactly what makes it interesting to me. Perhaps it's the endurance/rally driver in me that takes pride in finding the limits of whatever machine I have at hand, and nursing it to the finish. I love a perfectly dialed in car as much as anyone else, but I also love knowing that I can take an ill-handling car and quickly find it's limits and extract as much speed as possible from it without causing further damage. I've autocrossed everything from a 93 gmc suburban and 4wd jeep pickup, to miatas and vettes. I'll never forget the time I took a volvo station wagon to an autocross and someone in a 350z with a bewildered expression asked, "how are you beating me?" I don't say that to brag, I'm certainly not the fastest driver even in our local scca chapter, but I'm simply pointing out that a car doesn't have to be perfect to be fun at a race. ;)
I'm a simracer since 1999-ish with Grand Prix Legends. Then tried ovals with NR2003 around 2005/6. It was a steep learning curve, and there wasn't a lot of studying material available back then. Then life got in the way, and I stopped racing completely. Jumped back into iRacing in 2021, and ovals have been my favorite discipline. Mostly A/B/C fixed, and the 87's. I grew up and lived in countries with a road-only racing culture, so I learn something new in every race I start, sometimes I miss some of the oval etiquette and knowledge, other times I'm not on the right strategy, or poorly positioned on the track... but I'm really enjoying the whole process, improving little by little every time. Watching your videos certainly helps a whole lot.
I once joined in an oval race and it was thrilling.
It was a super speedway with skip barber car and demanded much more conentration than a regular road race.
Sadly I was involved in a crash, and after that the gap between car was too big, and it was boring to drive alone
I'm mainly a Road Racer, but somehow got to A lic on oval running Talladega and Daytona, and Indycar at Indi but never much more than that. I recently signed up in a league with the B car, and learning how to properly race oval has been a blast. So far I've had to learn Darlington, Michigan, and Chicagoland, plus all of what you mentioned in this video. Having to learn all these track which honestly look all the same to me from the outside, but once you get in there each one has its uniqueness, on top of learning all apply these new and old techniques on the oval, and then watching my progress getting better all the time, it's really put some enjoyment back into iracing for me.
Thanks for this videox
Oval racing, especially with high lap counts, _is_ a form of endurance racing. the perfection needed, the lack of down time, and the closeness of the races. it is extremely demanding.
As a primarily oval racer and seeing people say the same concepts apply to road racing, I’ve won and competed for wins on road racing and that just isn’t the case. Road racing I can hit the same marks every lap with very little change in the handling or speed of the car. Both are unique challenges in road racing challenges how close you can push your car off a corner consistently compared to oval racing which is who can spend the least amount of time and tires making a pass and making up time.
On superspeedway racing
Be selfish. If you get a run or have a chance don't be afraid to take it. Getting up front and dictating the pace of the field is important. If you can get to the lead or up close to the lead and click off laps, it gets you a much better chance of winning.
Look Ahead and predict. If you get a run, figure out what's gonna happen and what the guys near you will react. it's the difference between getting a good position or wiping out half the field.
don't be afraid to dip below the yellow line if it means avoiding a crash, or shunting someone into the next zipcode. Braking suddenly or letting off can cause the guy behind you to just smash you into the big one.
Watch other drivers. This is the most important thing. keep an eye out and ear out in voice chat if someone is slowing up a line or weaving in the lines. if someone is struggling to hold lines or can't keep it straight, make sure to not be near them if they cause something to go wrong. Likewise, pay attention to who is really good at pushing or being the pusher.
Learn your gut. you're gonna have moments where you need to pull out and go to the back if things get frisky. but you gotta know when. 45 laps to go at dega, probably best to ride in the back if people are getting very racy. but 10 laps to go, well, you just gotta deal. It's all about what you see and this varies moment to moment.
In half/full distance races, make sure to just survive. most of the longer distance races are gonna basically be about survival. Stay on the lead lap, and keep your wits about you. Still, keep yourself in position to win. 99% of the time you're not gonna be able to zoom to the front suddenly. when the time comes try to push for the top 5 or in some position to be a factor.
Also this goes unsaid, but watch your temps. nose to tail pushing rises them up fast and I've seen even veteran SS guys blow engines suddenly pushing too hard. Temps are a resource so make sure to use them wisely. can be the difference between pushing a guy out to the lead and causing a line to fail.
To that point, I keep hearing about bump drafting but I have no idea what it is or how it works. A video on that at some point would probably be widely appreciateed.
Bump drafting is essentially hitting a car's rear bumper and transferring your energy into their car to go faster. You don't want to run someone over, just a little bump.
Yeah what Yappit said. Some nuances to bump drafting are that many cars noses don’t line up flush with the bumper making it really easy to wreck a car while attempting to bump draft. Stock cars can also kinda stick together when bump drafting due to aero and make a tandem of cars that can go a lot faster than even the normal draft pack. But be careful because the car behind will overheat their engine really fast like this, usually within a lap or 2 so it has to be used only for big moments
Bump drafting means to literally gently push your front bumper up into the rear bumper of the car in front of you and then continue to push them full throttle as you work together to both go faster than you could alone.
The rear car is moving faster because it's drafting behind the front car so rather than go around him and eventually lose speed anyways, you gently get on their rear bumper and push them with your extra speed from drafting. This can allow a whole train of cars to pull away from the pack and go much faster than any of them could on their own.
Crazy concept huh? Actually working WITH the people you're trying to beat to give both of you a better position. Also sets up great duels at the end when the truce is off, hehe.
Bump drafting is usually reserved for super speedways and there are certain cars you just don't attempt it in like the Arca car. Also you should really start the bump draft on a straight, preferably the beginning of a straight. Starting a bump draft going into corner entry is a great way to spin out the person in front of you and make an enemy.
Good bump drafting takes practice, patience and balls of steel from both cars.
When to bump draft in the ARCA car - NEVER. NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER use the ARCA bumper. DO. NOT. DO. IT.
The bumpers on the ARCA don't line up, and it won't be a 'bump draft' - you'll lift the rear tires off the ground and turn the guy ahead of you hard into the wall, setting up a crash that people can't avoid, thus ending a LOT of people's races - Do Not Pass Go, Do Not Collect $200.
The rest of the NASCARs do line up, but the Trucks have very fragile aero, and even a light wall brush can send you sailing backward through the field...so weigh the risk/reward for bumping in the trucks knowing that...
Finally, _The Iceberg_ has a great video called "The Complete History of Tandem Drafting" that does a good job explaining how NASCAR evolved the bump draft over time.
A few things to remember if you're going to start trying it:
- Avoid bumpdrafting in corners. Unless you're super-experienced and the person in front also knows what they're doing, it'll only lead to wrecks.
- Don't bumpdraft anyone in the draft already. They're making sure not to hit the person in front of them and don't need your help.
- Make sure you can consistantly drive in a straight line before trying it, and make sure the person you're going to bump can do the same. Bumping someone who is constantly adjusting their line is going to lead to off-centre bumping, and potential wrecking.
- Over time, you will come to the realisation that just getting and staying really close and relying on the air-cushion between your cars achieves much the same effect, and you'll use the bump a lot less.
Drafting and letting off in the draft as well as the risks of 3 wide racing is my experience with road racers on oval.
I summarize it as oval racing is much more of tactical racing vs road racing being much more about reflexes and finding the perfect line. Road racing might be more of "pure" racing and thats why we see some elitist attitudes towards oval racing. With road racing its more like driver vs the track, but in oval racing its more driver vs driver. And imo thats why oval racers are more drawn to leagues. That strategic element of how you deal with other drivers is such a huge part of oval racing and we don't really get the same experience in a lobby race
ive started oval racing on iracing and i can confirm that i find it more mentally draining than road racing, very stressful when you have somone on your bumper for 10 laps knowing that 1 mistake could cause absolute chaos. Although i do find the drivers to be a lot more talkative and willing to help with bump drafting.
My favorite example of how corners are more than they appear is new Atlanta. At the beginning of the race the track, turns 1 and 2 are in the sunlight. But as it goes on, 2 and eventually 1 get covered in shade. It completely changes the groove that has the fastest line and means cars that started the race fast could wind up being kinda slow, and visa versa.
I love single seater and after all these years playing F1 games and all that, I decided to get into iRacing IndyCar C fixed, mainly because of Empty Box. Man I can't tell how often I wrecked myself hitting the wall. It took me a long time to learn about the car, the tracks and tyres. Nowadays, when my brain is sorting out these issues in the background, I can focus on racing. And it is a blast.
This is a GREAT explanation of the nuances of oval track racing. Excellent video, thanks for posting.
Part of the tire strategy is also your setup - another much deeper level of intricacy which doesn't get talked about by the "haha you like car go left" crowd. Sure, you can use more downforce on tracks like New Hampshire with just a 2 degree bank - and you can also use a lower tire pressure and softer suspension, but your tire wear will now ensure that you're one of the first people to enter to the pits. So you could, for example, in qualifying, set up your car to run high downforce and low tire pressure to get a high grid start, and then in the race use a lower downforce and higher tire pressure to ensure that your tires last for a longer period of time - this could turn your race into a 2 stopper instead of a 3 stopper which means, while you don't get around the track as fast as everyone else, your tires make sure you're putting in more laps between pits than everyone else, too.
I kinda wanna see this same vid but switched around, things oval racers don’t understand about road racing, cause there r oval racers that have zero clue when it comes to road racing, ESPECIALLY NASCAR fans in general. Cause I race both ovals and road courses, though I prefer road racing more cause that’s what I enjoy and it’s more challenging, and at least to me oval racing is honestly easy once ya get it down. Like the part where ya say oval racing is mentally challenging, maybe others think it is but to me and maybe others think this but it honestly feels easy when it comes to oval racing. I think the only times I’m like stressing on an oval is on certain short tracks with certain series mainly cause I’m just trying to hit my marks and not be holding up guys behind me or not hit anyone or be hit. Where as road racing it doesn’t matter what car you’re running u gotta hit your marks every corner every lap. U can go through one corner one lap and then the next lap and ya mess up that same corner by either missing the apex or running wide and getting an off track. Maybe people will understand where I’m getting or people will think “wOw, wHaT a pRiCk fOr sAyInG tHiS!” That’s just what I think. Ya wanna think that, doesn’t matter what u race if you’re an oval racer, road racer, hell even a dirt racer, u can go run an oval and then a road course and see what y’all think.
I would if I could 🤣 I’ve run I think 15 total non-nascar road races. Though I could pretend I’m qualified because nascar road races inflate my ir lol
When Marcos Ambrose came from V8 Supercar road racing in Australia to NASCAR about 15 years ago, he said the biggest thing he needed to learn is that you need to learn is how to set up each wheel individually, not just the wheels in pairs.
[I had a Very Good Teacher on chassis setup: My late ex-FIL Jack Friedman was a mechanic on Rufus' 1963 Indy 500 winning car... And he had the official sticker on his toolbox.]
grew up absolutely despising the thought of oval and drag racing was always a more purist “driver” enjoyer like touge and road course stuff, got into drag stuff and oval stuff and gotta say its just fun
As a low split driver who can get quite a few wins, but struggles overall with consistency, I can say one thing. Never underestimate just how far saving tires can go. It will almost always pay big dividends at the end. If you are leading a race early and you get like a 3 second lead, you are doing it wrong. A gap is just your clearance to save harder. Sometimes the most satisfying thing is to manage an intermediate race from the front so well, that when the car behind you starts to gain with about 10 to go, you pull an extra tenth or two out of your pocket for good measure.
even in games oval racing is terribly difficult. when youre doing over 200mph and have cars not even 2 inches away constantly is draining. i couldnt imagine it in real life
My thoughts on ovals are that they are extremely simple, but not the way that sounds. Road tracks are to me like a painting, great art, very complex. Ovals, are to me, like drawing a circle, hundreds of times over itself. Where in a painting each stroke hides your mistakes and you don't need to be perfect, drawing primitives only magnifies your mistakes and imperfections. Maybe its not as fancy or beautiful as a painting, but is it any less art?
Ams2 oval racing lobbies are hilarious im a mid road course driver but an excellent oval racer very few people understand any oval discipline I won a race at gateway by 16 seconds
What is ams2?
@@mauricebarry8858 Automobilista 2, newer racing sim made by Reiza Studios. It's kinda cool
Do you actually find decent sized lobbies for Ovals in AMS2? I really enjoy that sim but rarely ever find anyone online.
@@Maverik770 oh yeah I'm trying to start a league
1:05 RIP the person in the background
I’ll share this video with anyone that talks smack about NASCAR- you’ve explained very eloquently the differences in racing ovals vs road courses. Strategy is very different! 👍🏻
Many drivers like to go hammer down as far as possible then hit the brakes.. not good at all
always faster to ease out a bit early and decide how much you want the nose to drop or how fast..
more brake = more early bite and less bite from center out.. less brake = less dive and a smoother corner entry.
I’m a real life dirt oval racer in Australia, I race in SSA Junior Sedans and this is pretty much exactly what you wanna learn for dirt ovals as well.
Apart from Pit strategies, we only do about 12 laps.
Oh by the way SSA JS is FWD
My question is, how do you race while being upside down??
@@JV-mw7gv We have special tyres that have reverse grip
@@LittleJimmyR oooooh, makes perfect sense!
It is interesting to watch a strictly road course racer change to ovals as well. I remember back in the 90's when F1 legend Nigal Mansel, did a season in Indy cars. He dominated the road courses, (no real surprise there) but had a lot of difficulty with the ovals, and even made his distain for them well known.
Im loving oval after coming from road. Its really fun.
Hey mate, this is a great video, what would be great is having some background footage thst relates more to the topic you're talking about. When you're talking about braking a visual example would be awesome to see along with the audio!
Great video though
I agree with you, tbh this was a low effort video compared to some others, and it seems my low effort vids end up being the ones that get recommended to people lol
@DJ Yee-J TH-cam algorithm things haha, I'm trying to get into some oval racing and it's very interesting to learn some of the different nuances and little things that help in oval racing. I'm a visual learner so just need that little bit extra to help me out. I've seen a few of your videos and the topics are all great
I feel oval is easier to learn than road racing.
I also fell oval is harder to get good than road racing.
Lower floor higher ceiling kind of thing.
I know this is for Iracing but also is great to show why real life oval races are still tough for the drivers compared to road racing drivers especially to certain road racing series fans
I got into oval racing a year ago, after many years of road racing and rally. It feels like starting all over again.
A tip I found on super speedways is to not get in to a battle up front to soon in a race as you run a higher risk of a wreck I spend most my speedway races drafting and only passing when I feel its safe to I try not to push hard untill the last 10 to 15 laps of a race as learnt the hard way about tires wear.
Superspeedway wins takes a mountain of skill, with the biggest skill being how quick you are in and out of the pits. Thats what decides most of them. That, and the team with you.
I’m great at Martinsville in turns 1-2 and hit or miss in 3-4 even though they are identical.
They don't drive identical though
That’s what I’m saying
Really need visual at around 4:30 when you label corners by numbers. In teaching, if possible, always show, don't (only) tell.
Thanks you are right
I just find it boring, and thus struggle to understand the McMurican obsession with roundy-round racing. The only good roundy-round racing is on dirt tracks.
Don't blame all of us. There are more people in US that hate NASCAR than NASCAR fans
The ones who show they can draft and push someone to the front are often the ones who are wrecked out in crashes, at least in the lower official races.
I tried street stock after 1 year since i started iRacing, i love it, 5 cars in a tenth and i was the one in the middle, all wrecked but i really enjoyed that race, also my livery of ricky bobby and goatifi makes me laugh when i see a replay
You need to feature Indycar footage when discussing ovals and road course racing as it's really the only series that really does both throughout the season. Indycar requires the most diverse set of driving skills
Thanks to a lot of exposure including sim racing, a lot of the snobs, especially European F1 snobs, are now more accepting of oval racing as something that requires skill.
Sure, oval racing skills don't exactly transfer to road racing (and that fact is still a point that the F1 snobs still argue about since there are F1 drivers who drove NASCAR well but no NASCAR driver has made it to F1 but forgetting about how Indycar produced some F1 stars in the past) but oval racing does have a lot of finesse into it. And you need to learn that finesse like how Fernando Alonso studied the way the Indy 500 is driven for months before even doing the rookie test, and that is why he manages a top 10 start in 2017 (not because Indy has a "lower standard" as claimed by Lewis Hamilton).
Of course, people who start in ovals do make for some excellent road racers.
Nice video. 👍
Thank you!!
I love racing in rookie and watching the new players all start hitting the wall in the last 10 laps because they dont understand that even just 10% break and slight throttle lift would keep the average speed up while allowing them to keep out of the outside wall as they would have better rotation of the car, if you run charlotte flat out out by about the last 10 to 12 laps of a race your tires will be cooked in the rookies as no new sets of tires in them shorter races, lost a few at charlotte due to burning the tires up so I get passed easy on the last 5 or so laps.
Consistency and being smooth on the wheel is key in oval racing. You've got to hit your marks lap after lap. The difference among competitors could be a few hundredths to tenths a lap. If you get behind, you can't make up the gap as quickly as you would in road racing.
I'd be happier than a pig in shit when I'd get back to the hauler to check lap times and see 95% was within a tenth of each other.
Fun fact - The reason the cars in the video look like they’re sliding or drifting around corners is because the bodies are actually mounted sideways to an extent. The aerodynamic effects of this help push the car to the left slightly, and thus make left turns faster and easier.
Ayyy my suggestion was there but also it would have definitely been suggested had I not done it first 😂
If I wasn’t a brain fart then your comment would’ve been on screen as well haha sorry
@@DJYeeJay idc the information is more important than a little recognition. I didn’t comment that because I wanted people to think I know ovals I commented that because I want people to know that about ovals!
1:05 oval racing also has way more of this
2:20 one thing ive done a few times on the superspeedway tracks is forget to lift off when a crash happens
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like... a crash happens ahead of me.... and i just keep my foot planted on the gas.... end up crashing into the side of Kurt Bush LOL
you have had your foot in that position for 300+ laps....and your brain just forgets that you even have that foot
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idk.... its hard to explain....
its like being "velocitized" on a highway doing 75mph
when you slow down to 25.... it feels REALLY slow (or, the opposite also applies.... after doing 75 for miles and miles.... doing 95 feels like 50)
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.
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but ya.... you have not moved that foot even 1 millimeter for 450 miles
and then you suddenly have to react with only 0.25 seconds to think
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and i just leave my foot down (or even press the gas harder.... thinking im pushing the brake)
its SO strange..... and it just makes you feel dumb after lol
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anyone else know what i mean?
I wonder if these great vids translate into any measurable increase in Iracing Oval Rookies participation? Particularly from non-US drivers. I reckon they might.
One of the biggest things in ovals is patience a lot of guys wanna race as hard as they can soon as the race starts and they will wreck themselves and others for that next spot even if it’s lap one of a 200 lap race I can’t tell you how often I laugh when a guy is racing so hard on the first 10 laps and then when I drive back by him still saving and being patient not really trying to race him just working my strategy and he is all over the place trying everything he can to hold on to that spot lol
But on the flip side those guys are the ones that tend to cause the bigger crashes early in the race so it’s a love hate deal for me.
But patience is huge in road racing I’ve noticed if your faster than someone they will let you by vs trying to race someone who is faster and risk crashing especially early in the race.
Ovals is a different story you can expect multiple ppl to race has hard as they can no matter how much faster you are than them but that’s where patience comes in and once they use up their stuff no matter how hard they try they typically can’t keep up or they wind up in the pits with a wadded up car one of the two
dale Sr was a hell of a driver..... but it still took him DECADES to win at dayton
super speedways are definitely more of a "crapshoot" than road races/short tracks
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you can do things to improve your odds (best engine, best setup, best areo, maybe some NOS for qualifying..... but missing the wrecks and having a teammate or 2 are the best ways)
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like a slow car with a good teammate will win WAY more often than the fastest car with no help and bad pit strategy
I find it amusing how quickly my brain wanted to type paragraphs after you said brake-dragging 😂
One of the phrases I heard a long time ago about the difference between oval and road racing. With road racing, you prioritize racing the track, and the car. With oval, you prioritize racing the other drivers around you, and managing the tires
That explains why I’m in the wall more on ovals. I stop racing the track lol
I’m definitely going to check it out. I’ve been wanting to join a league that I’ll actually learn something
Really enjoying the oval insight videos
Using the breaks on an intermediate oval sounds so counterintuitive but I’m going to start using it! …as in sun racing I never break on intermediates but maybe that’s where I’m going wrong! … while in general I prefer road racing as a Brit I’m frustrated by how much oval racing is underrated in Europe as a whole … to me short oval racing is very similar to an medium fast road course … with constant medium speed corners … yes it’s easier qualifying and learning the racing line then typicall road tracks but like you said the race is more hard work for most off the field … super speedway’s racing to me has more in common with cycling track and road racing where spending the majority off the race in the leaders slipstream before a last minute sprint for the line for the win is generally the way to win plus avoiding the big crashes … like I said superspeedways more in common with Olympic and Tour de France cycling then typical oval and road racing!… as an f1 I love the extra variety ovals give to Indycar and NASCAR while f1 tracks have lost a bit off wide variety in road courses since the mid 1990’s
a quick video on any indycar driver who came from any other racing series (like grosjean) will let you know how setup is different and how intense oval racing can get
Another overlooked point is that there are often two or three racing lines
Long runs with huge amounts of tire wear are where the best show up and perform. Jeff Gordon was one of, if not the best under these conditions. Seemed like as the runs went long, he’d get faster and faster.
His dirt racing background had something to do with that. He was used to the car sliding around, as it does on dirt, and was an expert on driving a "loose" car, so he lost less speed than other drivers when his tires started going away. Same for Tony Stewart or, for a current driver, Kyle Larson.
Thank you for this!
Does the NTRL follow the NASCAR schedule? I'm a big NASCAR fan, and one of the big reasons I love the official races on iRacing is that I get to race the track all week, then see the professionals drive it on the weekend. If they do, I'm 100% in. I hate the randomness that comes with the official races, and I find that I'm one of the more consistent and safe drivers. Not necessarily up front, but most incidents I'm involves are, let's say, "not my fault". If I can get myself in with some drivers that are more in that mindset, I think I could excel and have a good time.
The mentality of oval racing seems to me like it's a lot like endurance racing. I'm for sure more of a road guy but I have fun doing the odd oval official
As someone who’s 5,000 IR on both oval and road. There is no doubt oval takes a lot more skill than road. Oval, you really need to know how to wheel a car, and understand track changes and manage tires. Road… tires are meh, and honestly… more reps spent on the track the better you get but other than that no much skill when it comes to the racing aspect.
The main thing about oval racing every lap has to be consistant or else you will lose time. Theres no im slow in sector one but can make it up in sector 3. If you mess up a little bit on ovals your going to lose spots
1:03 so we just gonna ignore that?? lol
what kind of alignment to oval track guys use? some 3/8 track guys ive seen have what looks like tweaked cars but grip like crazy, and its just the set up for this kind of racing
if u start in superspeedway with the idea to win you already f... if u drive a 1.5 miles with what should be the driving lane well you never try anything else just follow what it should be!! for me I'm an outside lane also very lose (sliding) to make sure i will not be a 20 lappers run and don't ever forget that a setup will never be done... were u start what's your number what is the split you racing track temps etc..
Wow I have been racing in Nascars in iracing for a while and never knew that you should be breaking that much on them.
Can you use trail braking to not only help the car turn but to also keep the rear end from becoming loose? Thanks
Great video man! But there is still one question unanswered, why the outside lane is faster/slower in a determined track? I never understand how the outside lane can be faster
One thing to consider is how much banking a given lane has, more banking means more grip. A lot of the time the fastest lane on ovals is the lowest lane that has the most banking. But also these days on iRacing honestly it just comes down to how the devs distribute the grip at a given track. With dynamic track, the answer was a bit more interesting, but we'll see if that ever comes back.
Great video bud 👍
My problem is I have the speed usually at super speedways but once I get boxed in three wide I panic and wreck everytime.
sry but even with the explanations I found it pretty boring lol. I knew that driving this is a lot more difficult than it looks (that´s just common sense tbh) but that isn´t rlly making it more interesting to me, I want a very diverse race with diverse cars, diverse movements, a diverse "track environment" during the race and diverse tactics and techniques and I don´t find enough of that in oval racing
you just admitted that you know nothing of oval racing and offering your opinion on it anyway... that discredits you as a person
Thanks
Your thumbnail is peak.
wow turning left is more difficult than i thought
How about open wheel oval racing like IndyCar? Do the same things apply?
as a new racer, I like your quailifying videos. I am looking for a guide on how to read tire wear / temps after a pit stop or race where you reiew the tire % and tire temps. Do you have a video that covers that? Thanks
In general you want the right side tire %s to be as even as possible. As for heat I don’t keep track too often of what I want my temps to be unless I’m really serious about a race. But basically I get a baseline from a run where I run easy and then try things and see how much temps go up
It’s amazing to see all the f1 eurotards saying that nascar is too easy and requires no skill. There is a reason why no f1 drivers have ever won a nascar race on an oval and their careers are usually over in 1-2 years. Nascar is brutal and people in Europe don’t know this because all they know is touring cars and open wheel
Ovals are stress start to finish. In a good way. Crazy fun in vr.
Delete this, make it a list, call it "X things that track racers dont understand about oval racing" instant view boost
WAIT I WAS GONNA CALL IT THAT I FORGOT LOL thanks I’ll update the title now