Can a Vintage Yamaha KEEP UP on TWISTY Mountain Roads? (NC Tour - Day 2)

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ก.ค. 2023
  • After a getting some much-needed sleep at the campground, it's time to REV UP YOUR ENGINES and enjoy some of the finest TWISTY mountain roads of the USA.
    We ride almost 200 GRIN-INDUCING miles from Rosman, NC to the "Two Wheels of Suches" motorcycle campground in Georgia.
    **WARNING: Motorcycling is an inherently dangerous activity. If you get TRIGGERED by fun speeds and the occasional yellow line pass, please do NOT watch this video!!**
    GPS Strava: strava.app.link/6U3qBnC7bBb
    Enjoy!
  • ยานยนต์และพาหนะ

ความคิดเห็น • 132

  • @JoseSilveira-newhandleforYT
    @JoseSilveira-newhandleforYT ปีที่แล้ว +7

    Just beautiful! Wish there were Go Pros back when I was riding 🙂 I love those wavy mountain roads - such a pleasure to handle (highways are boring). Great campground - only bikes in sight 🙂

  • @JohnnieBravo1
    @JohnnieBravo1 ปีที่แล้ว +9

    Great footage Ivan. I caught myself leaning right and left on my couch riding through those "familiar" roads. You just can't go wrong on a motorcycle in that area.

  • @aldntn
    @aldntn ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Rider's smile when you got to Two Wheels. Excellent riding. The Yammy did great. Its more the rider than the bike anyway.

  • @petepeabody8905
    @petepeabody8905 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Ivan, A well deserved vacation which was perfectly planned out for you and your party. Glad to see you unwinding with family........... Pete

  • @JohnDoesGarage
    @JohnDoesGarage ปีที่แล้ว +2

    That's my kind of riding. Plenty of challenging turns without the blistering speed. The best part is doing it on a vintage bike. Back when the XS750's were everywhere I was riding a 1978 Suzuki GS1000E. One of the seven bikes I own now is a 1981 GS1100E and taking it on the Dragon is on my to-do list. Great video and the smile on your face says it all.

  • @mikechiodetti4482
    @mikechiodetti4482 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Great day, great road, no rain and no bike trouble! Simply the best!

  • @brianw8963
    @brianw8963 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    I haven’t done that much leaning since the last time I actually rode a bike! Thanks for the ride along, again.👍👍🇺🇸

  • @grhmnz4648
    @grhmnz4648 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Loving this series. Back in the day a friend of mine owned one of these . I used to have a Yamaha XS250 for a while back then . Still riding today age 64 .

  • @CrimeVid
    @CrimeVid ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Obviously double lines in the centre of the road mean something different over there !

  • @pcallah3442
    @pcallah3442 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Love the vintage Yamaha, who knew Ivan was such a renaissance man.

  • @squeakywheel5274
    @squeakywheel5274 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Wow fantastic footage and being with friends and family always tops the cake

  • @JackTatum-yw2hr
    @JackTatum-yw2hr ปีที่แล้ว

    Appreciate you sharing!! There is still fun to be had. Just have to go find it!

  • @Sandmansa
    @Sandmansa ปีที่แล้ว +1

    That was a nice leisurely rip through the twisties. Not to aggressive. Just fast enough to be fun. It looks like it was a very enjoyable ride so far. Thanks for sharing this footage Ivan.

  • @williamwhite9767
    @williamwhite9767 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Glad you had an exciting and safe trip!

  • @user-id8jf6un5g
    @user-id8jf6un5g ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I'm 77 years old and still riding, started when I was 16 with junk bikes I fixed up and used, had every bike known to man LOL, I'm a harley guy but if it has 2 wheels it's good. Been watching these tank slapper videos lately and although I never had it happen to me was behind a guy on the GSP in Jersey and was watching a biker in front of me and his back wheel would hop to the left every few hundred feet, I was with my son who rides and pointed it out. all of a sudden his bike started to death Wable violently. first time I ever witnessed it and was figuring were gonna be picking this guy up but he rode it out. Cooled my jets on the highway.

  • @walkertonheights
    @walkertonheights ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Great fun. Love to see you into some riding.

  • @brianyoung9014
    @brianyoung9014 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Glad to see you out having some fun.

  • @WECB640
    @WECB640 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    "Yamaha. TODAY is the day!" (TV spot sung to melody of Silverbird by Mark Lindsay)

  • @carolcarola9719
    @carolcarola9719 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I am currently working on a 350 four Honda 1973 which I have had since 1977. It has been off the road for ten years and needs some attention. In the early nineties, I was on a trip to the blue ridge mountains . When coming to a stop on rat 66, I hit a puddle of antifreeze and went down not too hard. So things can happen when on a bike. Stay safe!!!

  • @rickdennis605
    @rickdennis605 ปีที่แล้ว

    Glad to see you out enjoying yourself.

  • @douglaslamb8709
    @douglaslamb8709 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Fantastic footage Ivan 👌👌👌

  • @johnrewijk8371
    @johnrewijk8371 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    That's a really nice ride Ivan. Triple cilinders , like the Laverda triple 1000 I drove in France /Spain this year. Own the bike for 25 years now. It is from '76 , old school bike. Makes it a real mens bike , like your Yamaha! Greetz John.

  • @marshall1157
    @marshall1157 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Nice ride, beautiful scenery.

  • @oldjarhead1125
    @oldjarhead1125 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Welcome to my place. I drive these mountain roads ALL the time in our little convertible. Greetings from that Old Jarhead in WNC

  • @stanleyfranks8252
    @stanleyfranks8252 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I grew up in Rosman In the 60" and early 70's. We mostly rode dirt bikes in the Auger Hole (Jocassee Gorges now). I could ride all day and never cross the same dirt twice. The lake bed was being clear cut and made for some awesome hill climbs. I left the area for Houston Tx and when I came back to Rosman, I realized I grew up in God's Country.

  • @stelvioc3691
    @stelvioc3691 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Heck, on a road like that I wouldn't be bothered if my buddies disappeared off into the distance - what a ride!

  • @alward9901
    @alward9901 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Nice ride Ivan. I noticed your cornering abilities are excellent . As you were getting on their tale . I had a buddy with a Kawasaki 900 and I would come along side him at 110 mph on my Yamaha RD 350 1973 and get a finger wave you cut that out . I also had a 1981 Honda CBF 900 . Love it do it again sometime 👍🇺🇸🛵🛴🚲🇨🇦🤣

  • @zx8401ztv
    @zx8401ztv ปีที่แล้ว +4

    I Think your smashing Yamaha did really well, you didn't seem to be having any problems.
    A lovely machine, i suspect you gave it a special Ivan tune up :-D
    The day looked perfect, lovely weather and no rain so you can scream it round the bends :-D

  • @dendkmac
    @dendkmac ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Nice twisty NC roads love it, don't have a bike anymore but do have a Corvette be safe have fun!!

  • @some_have_called_me_tim3107
    @some_have_called_me_tim3107 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I love this. Reminds me of my riding days 😎

  • @davidgrisco1939
    @davidgrisco1939 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Love the warning...enjoy! :)

  • @ohfugit
    @ohfugit ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Nice riding. I bet that felt great! ... reminds me of "The tail of the dragon"

  • @privateer0561
    @privateer0561 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Depends on what you mean by "keep up". To a determined sportbike rider on modern machinery: not a chance. To casual riders out for a brisk run: certainly. I didn't buy a motorcycle to wait behind anybody; as demonstrated here, the ability to pass quickly gives much of the freedom bikers are always talking about. I had a 1999 Suzuki 1200 Bandit as my last bike (with a full load of Holeshot Performance Products engine mods onboard), and my right wrist acted like a time warp device; twist it, and the scenery moved backward at a great rate...

    • @gtemnykh
      @gtemnykh ปีที่แล้ว +2

      The silver Bandit 1200 I’m riding in the video has the Holeshot slip on and jet kit, certainly a torquey peppy bike. I’d say I’m still getting back into the swing of things in terms of riding confidence, the Bandit certainly has immensely higher limits than I’m willing to test (on a public road with blind corners and gravel and traffic anyways). There’s also the non-trivial correction factor for how quickly/aggressively I’m willing to ride these days with a young family to take care of at home, so I try to ride with an ample safety factor (for my current skill level). A more experienced rider could certainly do a lot more on that Bandit on the street and still have a safety factor.

  • @arthurmccarron4379
    @arthurmccarron4379 10 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Cool video. Route. Seems. Made. For. Bikes. Feel. The. Power. Thanks

  • @NoWr2Run
    @NoWr2Run ปีที่แล้ว +1

    NICE SIR IVAN, DAMN LOOKS LIKE FUN.

  • @HouseCallAutoRepair
    @HouseCallAutoRepair ปีที่แล้ว +2

    The road in the beginning looked just like the road I drove over In North Carolina, back in 2017 (for the eclipse) and did so with really bad steering issues (horrible memory steer/binding)
    This was a much more enjoyable version!

  • @helmutkrahn9337
    @helmutkrahn9337 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Perfect day, perfect road; perfectly mesmerizing.

    • @randy1ization
      @randy1ization ปีที่แล้ว +1

      theres no troubles on your mind when riding like this..

  • @dogsplantscarsneatstuff176
    @dogsplantscarsneatstuff176 ปีที่แล้ว

    That looks like a lot of fun! Your brothers yellow bike looks so neat. I still prefer the simplicity of the old Yamaha.

  • @davidclapham1066
    @davidclapham1066 ปีที่แล้ว

    You've got nice lines through those bends 👍

  • @2Wingers
    @2Wingers ปีที่แล้ว +1

    nice job good on your apexs entering and exits just a few opps 😄😄😄

  • @norcal715
    @norcal715 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I love the back road travels. As Doobby's Taxiola from Planes, Trains and Automobiles says "All you see on the interstate is interstate"

  • @bikerider29ir
    @bikerider29ir ปีที่แล้ว

    Nice lines!

  • @raygregoryride
    @raygregoryride ปีที่แล้ว

    Okay you are down in my part of the woods have fun on those curvy roads rides safe keep the rubber side down

  • @NorthGaLk1968
    @NorthGaLk1968 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    You was up in my neck of the woods in suches I love this place go camping up there a lot i don’t live to far from it
    Ellijay Ga

    • @NorthGaLk1968
      @NorthGaLk1968 ปีที่แล้ว

      The dragon tail is a fun rd to ivan

  • @keithgilroy7402
    @keithgilroy7402 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Love the sound of a triple..

  • @tomnelson6808
    @tomnelson6808 ปีที่แล้ว

    You rode right through my neighborhood! Highlands, NC

  • @betomendez4304
    @betomendez4304 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Very brave passing like that be careful plz lol looked like fun tho 😆

  • @ShepherdLover62
    @ShepherdLover62 ปีที่แล้ว

    You're in my neck of the woods now. Welcome to the Appalachians! Would have provided dinner if we'd have known.
    Glad to see the "other side" of your life beyond the garage. Now where's the Mrs hanging out during your adventures?! 😁

  • @wallebo
    @wallebo ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Glad to see you enjoying. You deserve. Crossing on a double yellow (especially on the twisties), however, is as dangerous as it is illegal. My co-worker's husband was only 32 years when he did the same thing and was hit by a Jeep head on. He left behind his wife (my co-worker) , a daughter, and a daughter on the way. Now, they are both calling another man daddy. That was as tragic as it was preventable. Everyone, please be safe out there. Oftentimes, drivers are not looking out for motorcycles. Even under the best of circumstances you could be dead right (with the emphasis on dead).

    • @gtemnykh
      @gtemnykh ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Use sound judgement and ensure adequate line of sight and these powerful bikes can make quick safe passes in very short distances. If we listened to all the hand-wringers we’d all be walking around double-masked and triple-boosted scared of a cold

    • @bowalle7623
      @bowalle7623 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@gtemnykh Thank you for your thoughtful reply. You have a good point. Having been hurt on a motorcycle myself (100 percent not my fault) I am overly cautious for sure. Plus, my coworkers husband is still dead. So, there's that. My sister is the daredevil in my family. I would quality as the handwringer I suppose.

  • @MrTonyPiscatelle
    @MrTonyPiscatelle ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Wow you all are living the life , this is awesome. So you all just crossed 129 you never were on the Tail of the Dragon for any length of time eh ? Beautiful country down there.

  • @scottminer7702
    @scottminer7702 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Yamaha runs good. Looks like a fun ride.

  • @MitzvosGolem1
    @MitzvosGolem1 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    My brother lives near there Magee Valley off 74 and Blue ridge Pkwy
    We rode there up 6100 feet elevation highest point on east coast.
    I had an XS650 1979.
    Loved that bike .
    We went to the "Trials school " in Tennessee off road riding hard Enduro track there also.
    Check that out.

  • @pauljennings4248
    @pauljennings4248 ปีที่แล้ว

    loved it. I live in Georgia. Paul

  • @ronsereda4242
    @ronsereda4242 ปีที่แล้ว

    You're full of surprises. Never would have guessed that our common sense approach "no parts required" Ivan was a budding Peter Hickman. Good thing your Snap-on scanner, bore scope and multi meter weren't connect during those double solid line passes or they might have put your Kawasaki into the limp mode.

  • @Minimalist1266
    @Minimalist1266 ปีที่แล้ว

    I think you went down 180 (Wolfpen Gap) towards Suches. That is one of my most favorite descents. But I ride a self-propelled bike. ;)

  • @terrymurphy4177
    @terrymurphy4177 ปีที่แล้ว

    Sitting here with my helmet on😎 enjoying .

  • @zeke112964
    @zeke112964 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Looks like you might have gone through Highlands NC, That's where my son is located currently. I'm down in Raleigh one town over from Keith

  • @spodyr6
    @spodyr6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Scrapin pegs and passing on double solid. Good times !!!

  • @AP9311
    @AP9311 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Wow, what a great twisties! I can hear the shifting and engine notes!! I shared your video with a couple of buddies of mine who loves the twisties! Great video!! Love it, Ivan!
    Fyi, love it to see the engine rpm and mph too!! But is that normal for engine going 4 to 5,000rpm? I guess that's high revving engine?

    • @gtemnykh
      @gtemnykh ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Hardly high revving that’s like a “light jog” for these motors. They’ll sit at 6000rpm all day long on a higher speed highway cruise. Just make sure to check the oil once in a while!

    • @AP9311
      @AP9311 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@gtemnykh thank you for clarification!

  • @tacocin
    @tacocin ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Dragon's Tail Rd is in the area. Motorcyclist twisties personified. 👍👍👍

  • @carlshealy5839
    @carlshealy5839 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Cool. You passed by my house within 1/4 mile . Have fun

  • @jerryking2418
    @jerryking2418 ปีที่แล้ว

    Living dangerously. Good for you.

  • @andrewthompsonuk1
    @andrewthompsonuk1 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Those yellow lines are a nuisance, far more of them than you find in the UK (solid white). There are many factors that make overtaking safe or dangerous, and marking an entire highway as yellow is silly. Yellow lines should be reserved for parts of the road where its hard to judge if it's safe or not, like hidden dips etc. A powerful bike can overtake in areas that a pickup truck cannot. It should be up to the driver.

    • @gtemnykh
      @gtemnykh ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Well put!

    • @neilmurphy845
      @neilmurphy845 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Same when they put the broken lines sometimes they put them where you simply would not dare overtake because you simply can't see nothing for miles

  • @robertshatto2995
    @robertshatto2995 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Looks like your on the Blue Mountain Park way,, lots of turns and leans,,45 MPH Max...lol

  • @mattbrown5511
    @mattbrown5511 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    You make me miss my Nighthawk 750.

  • @jeffsmith2070
    @jeffsmith2070 ปีที่แล้ว

    Nice!

  • @konstantinusstoyanov9749
    @konstantinusstoyanov9749 ปีที่แล้ว

    Fun day

  • @baxrok2.
    @baxrok2. ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Hell yeah.

  • @zombietherapy1759
    @zombietherapy1759 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I didn't know Wild Hogs 3 was out! Is this a sneak peak?

  • @kerrylewis2581
    @kerrylewis2581 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I love that the Strava app shows your elevation and grade. How did the engine feel above 3,000 feet?

  • @Garth2011
    @Garth2011 ปีที่แล้ว

    Nice

  • @phonotd
    @phonotd ปีที่แล้ว

    In the UK solid/continuous lines down the centre of the road mean no overtaking allowed, is it the same in the USA? An old adage regarding road markings in the UK is the more paint, the more danger.

  • @abruptlyblunt
    @abruptlyblunt ปีที่แล้ว

    Ivan, have a logic question for you, how would you go about changing out the engine in your yamaha by yourself without physically having to lift it?????

  • @donearnhardt6336
    @donearnhardt6336 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Was The Tail Of The Dragon part of your route? Supposedly America's number one motorcycle and sports car road.

    • @gtemnykh
      @gtemnykh ปีที่แล้ว

      We rode it together back in 2008. Definitely a must ride (once in your life) but it’s widespread notoriety means that it’s frequently heavily trafficked with every sort of yahoo as well as police.

  • @randy1ization
    @randy1ization ปีที่แล้ว +2

    cant wait to see the old yammy stretch her legs on open road.. miss my old honda 750.. they were king in the 70s..Suzys had the best front ends, honda was fastest but yammys could take whatever you gave them. best bikes ever built.

    • @gtemnykh
      @gtemnykh ปีที่แล้ว

      I don’t think Honda had the fastest 750 for more than a few years when they first came out. Low-mid 13 second bike in the quarter. GS750 broke into the high 12s in 77, that 79 XS750 will run in the upper 12s too. The SOHC Hondas just kept getting detuned as the decade progressed even the KZ650s beat up on them. Finally with the DOHC in 1979 they were back in the thick of it speed-wise for a 750.

    • @randy1ization
      @randy1ization ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@gtemnykh the 750s were the big motor bikes.. now with 1800 cc engines its kind of funny.

  • @scottjohnson5449
    @scottjohnson5449 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    damm nice! im jealous!!!! 😁

  • @victorgonza4528
    @victorgonza4528 ปีที่แล้ว

    Nice and easy the mighty XJS 750 .

  • @boxatricks
    @boxatricks ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I think I heard the side scraping at 4:17in😊

  • @williamhague2768
    @williamhague2768 ปีที่แล้ว

    Green Twisties!!

  • @randyr.parker2698
    @randyr.parker2698 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Try to take in 'The Tail of the Dragon' while there sometime, next trip I would guess, if you didn't this time around. Honda 1800 VTX rider here. Stay safe!

    • @PineHollowAutoDiagnostics
      @PineHollowAutoDiagnostics  ปีที่แล้ว +2

      We rode that back in 2008... Too much traffic lol

    • @randyr.parker2698
      @randyr.parker2698 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Oh, but soooo much fun! 😉

    • @gtemnykh
      @gtemnykh ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@randyr.parker2698a lot of the mountain roads in the area give you 90%+ of the dragon twisties with 0% of the police attention, traffic and other drama

  • @CajunShrek
    @CajunShrek ปีที่แล้ว

    Next course tail of the dragon!

  • @EDP1
    @EDP1 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    nothing better dan driving an old bike .

  • @williamkelley7654
    @williamkelley7654 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Not only would I expect a decently experienced rider can keep up to bigger/badder bikes, you would outrun almost any Harley Davidson (all show no go). If you were ragging it to redline and tailgating I would say that's not cool, you were well within the bounds.

  • @timd1833
    @timd1833 ปีที่แล้ว

    Like watching "BULLITT"

  • @bntrouble31
    @bntrouble31 ปีที่แล้ว

    Hello Ivan.😊

  • @febbral
    @febbral ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Ivan, great video of trip, however passing cars with double yellow lines is a little dangerous and illegal in our area (CT) especially approaching curves, be cautious, you have a lot of knowledge in that brain of yours, it would surely be missed if something happened.

    • @marscruz
      @marscruz ปีที่แล้ว +1

      You should stick to cars or Cruisers. You have no idea of what is safe for a capable motorcycle and rider. I've been riding them for over 50 years. You'd do better to put down your phone and watch the road.

    • @gtemnykh
      @gtemnykh ปีที่แล้ว

      @@marscruzamen

  • @badgerdave22
    @badgerdave22 ปีที่แล้ว

    Foot peg scrape at 2:40?! 😆😆

  • @porky7753
    @porky7753 ปีที่แล้ว

    @ 2:39 footpeg scrape. LOL, i know the sound.

  • @stevensapyak7971
    @stevensapyak7971 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    7.6.23. “Damn Yankee”®️. Lol 😝

  • @GreyRockOne
    @GreyRockOne ปีที่แล้ว

    Thanks but I'll be back when the bike tour is over..

    • @gtemnykh
      @gtemnykh ปีที่แล้ว

      Don’t suppose you’d like a refund

  • @kc6nfv746
    @kc6nfv746 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    You should invite mad Maxy come out and ride with you he has lot of views on you tube he has lot of bikes he could bring lot more fans in your you tube Channel he just did a video tail of the dragon 🐉

  • @fredsalter1915
    @fredsalter1915 ปีที่แล้ว

    45mpg with a carburetor. Imagine that 🙂!

  • @engeneer_ru5827
    @engeneer_ru5827 ปีที่แล้ว

    Почему так мало автомобилей на дороге? Это основная дорога между городами?

    • @vadim7590
      @vadim7590 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Не похоже что это основная дорога.

  • @krama3282
    @krama3282 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    ivan you ride like the devil! i enjoyed your vacation.

  • @buza1300
    @buza1300 ปีที่แล้ว

    😎💙👍

  • @rafflesnh
    @rafflesnh ปีที่แล้ว +3

    @2:33 and @3:50 and @7:10 and @7:44 (and counting) Isn't crossing/overtaking on double yellows illegal in USA? 🤔

    • @PineHollowAutoDiagnostics
      @PineHollowAutoDiagnostics  ปีที่แล้ว +3

      This is Mexico 😆

    • @MitzvosGolem1
      @MitzvosGolem1 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Riots and burning cities and corruption is legal though..

    • @vadim7590
      @vadim7590 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Shhh, don't tell the law😅

    • @rafflesnh
      @rafflesnh ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics I hope Amanda isn't watching! 😮😉 Take care guys. 🤐

    • @Badger1949
      @Badger1949 ปีที่แล้ว

      Only if you get caught.

  • @thomassuhadolnik8027
    @thomassuhadolnik8027 ปีที่แล้ว

    You must have been on the parkway

  • @vwwrenchie314
    @vwwrenchie314 ปีที่แล้ว

    double line passes executed...12 plus tsk tsk😅

  • @Jason315NY
    @Jason315NY ปีที่แล้ว

    You should meet up with #shadetreesurgeon

  • @CrimeVid
    @CrimeVid ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I dunno, two equal riders intending to stay alive, not racing. shouldn’t think there’d be too much in it.