Enjoyed your analysis Palmer. I wondered if you had ever played Warmachine and how that compares. It has "superheroes" (warcasters), solo characters, groups of troop types, and mechanical warriors ("warjacks") and the whole thing meshes together "elegantly" to use your word. One thing it falls down on though is the games seem to me to be contests and lack the narrative that you also mention is lacking with the superheroes game. I look on it as a question of resolution - as you zoom out and play rulesets dealing with large scale battles such as Napoleonics the system has to smooth out the differences between individual figures so that the units you are controlling on the tabletop become companies, regiments etc - as you zoom in towards skirmish games you can give more detail to individual figures and create characters, adding resolution to the image of the game. That's why I'm eagerly anticipating your comparison of Musket and Tomahawks and Sharpe Practice 2. To me the latter tries to be both types of game, but there is a disconnect between the two levels so that players enjoy it by using the rules to play one type of game or the other, but not both at the same time. I think a similar analysis as you have done here to SP2 would be really interesting to listen to.
Ralph Astley Hi Ralph, I haven't played Warmachine I do have friends that have played the game locally I just never took an interest in it but interesting to hear your thoughts on it. I like the way you describe the size of the conflict and complexity of the rules as resolution. The M&T and Sharpes Practice series is in the works! :) cheers
A great chat, raising a lot of interesting points. Too much clutter around the table would really turn me off, the card you displayed, being a case in point. That is fine and expected in a board game, but less so in a miniatures game.
interesting stuff, it's sort of like the difference between a tabletop game and an RPG. When I play an RPG I accept at high level of complexity and can be disappointed if complexity is missing. we generally want tabletop games to flow so we accept / want a less complicated game. The table looks fantastic and the Hulk will always be stronger than a bus.
Dervan very true the Hulk will always be strongest lol Yes I hadn't really thought of the RPG comparison. Clearly a different type of game but relevant as they often cover the same genre
Try Super Mission Force. It's a simplistic supers table top game. You can build custom heroes or take a crack at creating your favorite comic character.
Andrew Toms cheers Andrew glad that you enjoy it. I find the rules written pretty vague and for me that adds to the complexity of how the actions and reactions actually work (I won't get into all the versions of throwing that have come out) but in general the scenarios really do not have much to them so it's a simple fisticuff for me in most cases however some people may want that. I do love the miniatures and hope the game evolves.
Yes. As for the development of the Spiderman game- it wasn't sellingso they jumped over to Marvel. As they are now pushing for Harry Potter game I would presume Marvel game will be neglected as well. Batman game has a upper hand that it has quite a active following. We'll see- time will tell. Cheers, Trist.
athilith cheers Tristan, hmmm not so sure. The Marvel fan base from what I can see on FB is equally as big. In some ways it grew even faster with the Marvel game. I never bought into the Spiderman game but it never had a chance it was sold off the side of their desk direct only with only two crews and a PDF. I was really happy with the quality of the miniatures and their large release for Marvel but the rules have a ways to go and it's possible they won't be supporting it anymore since they haven't acknowledged the marvel license in any way since last August. Shame
Well, Knight models has pulled another one and no more Marvel minis from them as from today. So I suggest get your wallet out and buy those you are still missing Palmer. That's the issue with licence based games. Cheers, T.
Great insight into maybe the thought process of the game system. It's hard sometimes to get the flavor on to the table that going on in ones head. I've designed or helped design five tabletop systems and it's a struggle to sometimes to make things work right.
Helcarexe26 that's very cool that you have experience designing games I didn't know that. I can imagine it could be a fun and also challenging experience
The biggest challenge is making a system that reflects a real life event or activity. Most of my work was with historical systems and a couple syfi systems. Back in the 90's we had a very active historical club and couple systems came out of it.
A lot of truth in that statement, "you know that in 1941 the Grant tank had this sight which made it...... blah blah..... " which can leave you banging your head on the desk lol
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Enjoyed your thought my friend.
ta24u cheers Rich
Interesting chat mate
IDICBeer 40k cheers Nick
Enjoyed your analysis Palmer. I wondered if you had ever played Warmachine and how that compares. It has "superheroes" (warcasters), solo characters, groups of troop types, and mechanical warriors ("warjacks") and the whole thing meshes together "elegantly" to use your word. One thing it falls down on though is the games seem to me to be contests and lack the narrative that you also mention is lacking with the superheroes game. I look on it as a question of resolution - as you zoom out and play rulesets dealing with large scale battles such as Napoleonics the system has to smooth out the differences between individual figures so that the units you are controlling on the tabletop become companies, regiments etc - as you zoom in towards skirmish games you can give more detail to individual figures and create characters, adding resolution to the image of the game. That's why I'm eagerly anticipating your comparison of Musket and Tomahawks and Sharpe Practice 2. To me the latter tries to be both types of game, but there is a disconnect between the two levels so that players enjoy it by using the rules to play one type of game or the other, but not both at the same time. I think a similar analysis as you have done here to SP2 would be really interesting to listen to.
Ralph Astley Hi Ralph, I haven't played Warmachine I do have friends that have played the game locally I just never took an interest in it but interesting to hear your thoughts on it. I like the way you describe the size of the conflict and complexity of the rules as resolution. The M&T and Sharpes Practice series is in the works! :) cheers
A great chat, raising a lot of interesting points. Too much clutter around the table would really turn me off, the card you displayed, being a case in point. That is fine and expected in a board game, but less so in a miniatures game.
TheDiomedef16 cheers Ian yes things like this can really change the gaming experience IMO
interesting stuff, it's sort of like the difference between a tabletop game and an RPG. When I play an RPG I accept at high level of complexity and can be disappointed if complexity is missing. we generally want tabletop games to flow so we accept / want a less complicated game. The table looks fantastic and the Hulk will always be stronger than a bus.
Dervan very true the Hulk will always be strongest lol Yes I hadn't really thought of the RPG comparison. Clearly a different type of game but relevant as they often cover the same genre
Try Super Mission Force. It's a simplistic supers table top game. You can build custom heroes or take a crack at creating your favorite comic character.
Rob Salters thanks Rob! I will have to take a look at it!
I play marvel, its got no where near the complexity of warmachine or infinity. finding it to be a great game and easy to play.
Andrew Toms cheers Andrew glad that you enjoy it. I find the rules written pretty vague and for me that adds to the complexity of how the actions and reactions actually work (I won't get into all the versions of throwing that have come out) but in general the scenarios really do not have much to them so it's a simple fisticuff for me in most cases however some people may want that. I do love the miniatures and hope the game evolves.
Yes. As for the development of the Spiderman game- it wasn't sellingso they jumped over to Marvel. As they are now pushing for Harry Potter game I would presume Marvel game will be neglected as well. Batman game has a upper hand that it has quite a active following. We'll see- time will tell.
Cheers,
Trist.
athilith cheers Tristan, hmmm not so sure. The Marvel fan base from what I can see on FB is equally as big. In some ways it grew even faster with the Marvel game. I never bought into the Spiderman game but it never had a chance it was sold off the side of their desk direct only with only two crews and a PDF. I was really happy with the quality of the miniatures and their large release for Marvel but the rules have a ways to go and it's possible they won't be supporting it anymore since they haven't acknowledged the marvel license in any way since last August. Shame
Well, Knight models has pulled another one and no more Marvel minis from them as from today. So I suggest get your wallet out and buy those you are still missing Palmer. That's the issue with licence based games.
Cheers,
T.
athilith totally agree :) the video is being edited as we speak ;)
I'm gonna get my cup of tea out and stay tuned ;)
athilith it will be more tame than my Facebook rants ha ha.....
Great insight into maybe the thought process of the game system. It's hard sometimes to get the flavor on to the table that going on in ones head. I've designed or helped design five tabletop systems and it's a struggle to sometimes to make things work right.
Helcarexe26 that's very cool that you have experience designing games I didn't know that. I can imagine it could be a fun and also challenging experience
The biggest challenge is making a system that reflects a real life event or activity. Most of my work was with historical systems and a couple syfi systems. Back in the 90's we had a very active historical club and couple systems came out of it.
Helcarexe26 yeah I can imagine mimicking reality has its own difficulties and the history buffs aren't always forgiving ;)
A lot of truth in that statement, "you know that in 1941 the Grant tank had this sight which made it...... blah blah..... " which can leave you banging your head on the desk lol