Is Living in Italy REALLY Better than Portugal?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 พ.ค. 2024
- Let's compare two great European countries. Is Portugal better? Is Italy better? Josh and Kalie from ExpatsEverywhere breakdown top qualities of each country and give a winner to each category. They then give an overall winner to all of the categories. Is it close? Does one beat the other in a big way? Check out these top things to consider when wanting to move to or live in Portugal or Italy.
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Josh and Kalie left the US for a life abroad in 2009 and haven't looked back. They have lived in Spain, South Korea, Saudi Arabia, Singapore, and are currently in Portugal. Yes, they realize they only moved to countries starting with the letter "S" until they spoiled that streak with their move to Portugal. Follow ExpatsEverywhere as we aim to get information to you through expat interviews, city breakdowns, expat life, travel, vlogs, and more.
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My experience with the friendliness in Italy was overwhelming. Traveling alone and needing help at different times, the Italian people that stepped in to help me was amazing. More than the 9 other countries I traveled. Maybe friendly wasn’t the best word for what I experienced but I loved the people. I also loved the vivaciousness as they related to each other. Excited to experience Spain and Portugal soon!
One thing about Italian language is, unlike every other language I've studied, including Korean and Chinese, Italians enuciate clearly. They seem to take pride in sounding pedantic. It makes it much easier to understand when listening.
*enunciate Sorry, couldn't resist :D
Agreed! That's what makes Italian easier as a language in a way. - Josh & Kalie
Italians want to be understood, and they are willing to sound pedantic if necessary to get their points across. But they are a language of vowels, with long ones and short ones, and this allows them to stretch out any sentence - or sing it, if necessary!
I agree that Italian is easier and I speak Brazilian Portuguese. When I visit Portugal I have the hardest time understanding the locals. I live in Italy and I have still not mastered the language but I generally understand most of what I hear regardless of the region. Now responding is another story.
Italian's much easier to learn than Portuguese, which, sorry, is hard on the ears.
Just one thing to note: Italy's population is 59.11 million versus Portugal has 10.33 million, that's a big difference! especially when comparing the hospital system, crime rates, tourism, traffic etc
6x is a difference for sure but population will play a different role in each of those things. It would be a linear effect. For example, crime rate is a rate that is generally based on number of incidences in 1000 so that comparisons can be made more fairly instead of just looking at total number of incidences. In theory, Italy has more resources for the hospital systems because they have 6x population contributing to it, however, they also have 6x number of people that need to use it. Italy's economy is more than 6x larger than Portugal, which throws the ratios out of the window but we can say per capita, Italy has a stronger economy, which can impact the hospital system, right? - Josh
@@ExpatsEverywhere One thing I like about Portugal is they have a dedicated medical line in English which is a big help if you don't speak the language
As a U.S. citizen having lived in Torino for a little while, one major difference between Portugal and Italy, that I noticed is price of housing to buy. I am planning to move part-time to Portugal soon and want to buy a house. Properties for sale in Portuguese cities seem to cost almost double what they do in Italy. I found a lot of good sized houses and apartments in Turin for under 200 thousand euros versus the same sized ones going for 380 thousand on the outskirts of Porto and Lisbon. This is probably due to the amount of housing available in Italy compared to Portugal. I think this affects costs for some people living in Portugal rather than Italy.
I believe it’s due to the thousands of people moving to Portugal without having enough housing, sort of like millions of illegals flooding the USA except legal. Then there’s the many TH-cam videos heavily promoting Portugal. Lastly the government programs offered to noncitizens to gain residency was quite nice also. Now overpriced and the government program no longer offered its not what people imagined.
For retirees you guys should definitely do a comparison with France. With the US-France tax treaty, you don't pay French taxes on your US pension/Social Security. Cost of living is a little higher than Portugal or Italy in general, but with the tax benefits for retired people, I think overall costs are about the same.
That is a good point. Thanks for sharing 😊
You are correct. One of the primary reasons why France is on my list. However Italy has a tax regime for retirees that is also very good with a flat tax of 7% on foreign sourced income. There a few more requirements though, chief among them being you have to live in certain regions. Not a problem for me as the included regions are where I would want to live anyway.
Great video, guys. I love it. Please make one comparing Portugal and Spain in that format. ❤ Thank you.
YES PLEASE~! I think we're down to those two countries for retiring abroad.~! It would be most helpful~!
That’s what I want to see too!
Yeah, I am having a hard time deciding between Italy, Portugal, and Spain, and Croatia is always giving me a wink..lol
Something I always noticed growing up Portuguese in CT, is that, if the couples weren't Portuguese and Portuguese, they were almost always Portuguese and Italian. I think it has to do a lot with the cultures being so similar. I think it was more pronounced with the immigrants coming over here in the 60s and 70s. All I know for sure is that I grew up around a lot of big families and amazing food!
Do you consider Brazilians and Cape Verdeans Portuguese people as well since they have Portuguese blood?
Taxis in Rome charge a flat rate within the city center. No reason to taxi from or to the airport, when there is a fine train connection, which links with the subway system and Stazione Termini.
I love Portugal but about history, art etc. You can't make a comparison, Italy has an enormous history, no Western country can compare to Italy
You say that caus you know nothing about Portuguese history let me just give you a fact, Lisbon is older then Rome, and another fact Portugal changed the world research a bit and you will understand.
The classic arrogant Italian, so naive also :D Portugal is much better than Italy, Italy is just propaganda from US and these two in the channel seems to drink from it. Btw, Portuguese food is way better than Italian. And also, learn this one: Portuguese empire was bigger than the Roman. Live with it, don't drink from the US and hollywood propaganda.
I fully agree . Thank you 🙏👏👏🇮🇹👍
Bla bla bla, such a naive comment. You know nothing about Portugal that is why you say that.
There is a very sweet TH-camr called Rafael Di Furia who is Italian American, and moved from the US to Italy and lived there for some time before moving to Portugal and settling in Braga. When I saw your video's title I thought you may have collaborated with him like you did with Dave. Judging by the few videos I watched on his channel, I think he would agree with most of your conclusions about the difference between the two countries.
So hard to compare but well done! We love Italy but have never really envisioned ourselves there, especially with the easy Visa in Portugal. That being said the cuisine is hands down better in Italy. I know some Portuguese will be here in the comments disaggreeing but there is not comparison. Also, I love the Italian language, they announce all the letters! As far as friendliness, I think it is similar to Portugal in that the smaller the city, the nicer the people. We live in Lisbon so I think we lose the friendliness of the people here and we just went to some small towns in Italy and everyone was soo friendly.
Hello, Michelle! Didn't know you still live in Lisbon
pode ir embora comer puzzas e pastas
Lisboa é a cidade onde se come pior em Portugal
Arrivederci...
There is another nuanced detail about taxes that should be mentioned with regard to married couples that could swing the win to Portugal depending on the couple’s joint income situation. In Portugal a married couple can file jointly, in which case the taxable income is then 50% of the combined total, thus likely dropping the couple down to a lower tax bracket (unless you’re really wealthy or really poor). In Italy, there is no joint filing of taxes at all-it’s all individual. So, if each of a couple has taxable income, each will be taxed straight within the progressive brackets. In Portugal, even if only one of the couple has taxable income you can file jointly and are taxed 50% of the household income.
You're right that's a good point. - Josh & Kalie
Numbeo compares cities. Since December 2nd, I'm in Uruguay and Argentina to solve issues. My flight started in Madrid, and prices are like Lisbon, far higher than Coimbra. Stay in Porto 😅. Bye 😊
@@teodoro1007 We're def. staying put in Porto. - Josh & Kalie
A note about the languages. Portuguese is one of the hardest languages to learn (in terms of speaking/listening) as a native English speaker. Italian is far easier.
European Portuguese, maybe. Although they're both ranked in the same category for ease of learning for English speakers.
@@ExpatsEverywhere Portuguese is not even close to being the hardest language to learn for Americans....
@@Kenny-bj2zq We know. It's among the easiest from a technical differences standpoint. www.babbel.com/en/magazine/easiest-languages-for-english-speakers-to-learn
Thanks for the mention (or at least, quick flash) of Salpoente in Aveiro!
Really enjoyed this deep dive. Thank you
Thanks, Jason. Thank you for watching. - Josh & Kalie
I adore Portugal, no doubt about it. I've only been to Italy twice but will be going to Rome in March for 5 days and then will spend another 5 days in Lisbon before flying home the the US. I am glad that I am traveling this way. I expect Rome to be more expensive but I want to eat well so won't worry to much about my spending. Plus it will be nice to be in Lisbon where I have some favorite places to go where you dont have to spend all that much. Eating out here in the East Coast has really become expensive for even a sub. There is no such thing as cheap eats anymore in the States. Great video, guys. Love your videos!
Consider Greece for food.
You are both such amazing communications! Thanks for your insights!
I've been thinking exactly about this subject in past few weeks, this video helped me a lot! Thanks!
Ohhh gosh
Thanks for the very enlightening video! I discovered your channel from Rafael's video.
Awesome, thank you! We appreciate the visit. - Josh & Kalie
When I was retiring and considering on where to move the decision boiled down to Italy or Portugal. While I did not consider every factor discussed in your video I did consider most of them, especially weather, and landed on Italy. One thing I considered was ease of weekend jaunts outside of the country to other countries because I love exploring new places. I live by Lake Garda in northern Italy and I am within 4 hours drive from Switzerland, Austria, Germany, Croatia, Slovenia and Lichtenstein. And close proximity to the Alps and Dolomites is a non starter (stunning beauty). However, I love visiting Portugal. I try to never say that one place is “better” or “worse” but more suited to my particular preferences. My preferences led me to choose Italy even though I speak Portuguese and the language adjustment would have been easier.
great work, thanx
Lots of great info!❤
Thank you! - Josh & Kalie
Thank you for your time and posting. Thanks for the Numbeo website. :) I'm actually looking into Malaysia. Just the pollution level is pretty high. I lived in North Queensland AU (Port Douglas/Cairns) for a couple of years and the wet/dry season was actually great for me.
Whether you move to Italy depends on what you are looking for. For example, are you looking to live in a first-, second-, or third-tier city? Do you need to work in Italy? Would you like to be by the sea or in the mountains? What is your budget for renting or buying? Do you want to be close to an international airport? What is your level of Italian? Do you have health problems that require you to be near medical facilities? Do you need to place children in a school and are you looking for an international school or an Italian state-run one? Only by getting granular on what you are looking for in Italy can you find if it is best suited for your needs and objectives, both personally and possibly professionally.
Great Video!!!! Could you make more comparisions on that? Portugal vs. other countries ? 😊
Thank you! We will for sure. We enjoyed doing this one. We have Spain and France in our sights. Having lived in Spain and traveled back there a lot over the past few years, it should be a fun one. We wanted to see how this one went first and the feedback has been pretty positive. - Josh & Kalie
@@ExpatsEverywhere you deserve the good Feedback. The idea is just great 🧡
@@k.schmidt2266 Thank youuuuu! ❤ - Josh & Kalie
Great vid! I Would love to see a video on the Comparison of portugal vs spain
They just posted that comparison today in case you're not a subscriber.
Italy gets a lot hotter than Portugal in general (minus the far north in the Alps). This is mainly because Portugal gets the winds from the Atlantic ocean, which really help to cool things down. You have to go south of Figueira da Foz before the weather starts to get completely unbearable in the summer.
And that's halfway down the Portugal.
You obviously have never been to Rome in the winter. Most of Italy freezes in the winter. Parts of central Portugal are more similar to the climate in Italy.
@@Jo.King_ Central Portugal almost never sees temperatures below freezing.
Who lives in Porto has everything that matters, and can ignore the south. -_-
QUESTION @ 8:10 Who eats all of that food? ANSWER: It depends. In general, most people in Italy do not eat an antipasto, primo piatto, secondo piatto, dolce, and digestivo (after dinner drink) for each meal at home.
At home, folks typically eat a primo piatto (e.g. pasta, rice, polenta or soup), a second dish (meat or fish) and maybe a dessert or after meal drink. Unless there’s a very special occasion the family is celebrating (e.g., Christmas, Easter, graduation, birthday, guest visiting) then, yes, antipasto, primo and secondo piatto, sweet and drinks are more typical.
At a restaurant, there’s an expectation that you will order an antipasto, primo piatto, secondo piatto and dessert. If you do skip one of these, you may get some strange looks by the waiter. 😂 Probably ‘eating out’ at a restaurant is less common than in the US so there’s an assumption by the restaurant that you’re celebrating something and, of course, you’d be ordering a full course meal.
Then at a pizzeria (not a restaurant) it’s fine to order a pizza or calzone and walk away after that. 👍🏻
Hope this helps. 😊
Great intel! I have a friend who has just bought homes in Italy, & I'm getting ready to move to my apt in Lisboa. Seems like they're about even to me.
Thank you. Best of luck. Keep us posted on your move and transition to Lisbon. - Josh & Kalie
That was a fun video to watch! A practical comparison. I will say that taxes are complicated in most countries, and people need to research this area before making decisions. 🤔
Thank you, Wendy! Yes, taxes are so individual. - Josh & Kalie
Josh speaks Spanish which makes Portuguese and Italian languages more accessible. Brazilian Portuguese is easier to understand than Portuguese Portuguese though and there are a lot of Brazilians in Portugal…
Kalie's the one that's half-Cuban. ;-) - Josh
@@ExpatsEverywhereI know but she never picked up Spanish according to you. However, you did learn Spanish while living in Spain.
I've watched several Portuguese language series on Netflix and concluded Portuguese seemed like a blend of Italian and Spanish. Some of the words that were different from Spanish were Italian cognates.
@@389293912very true. The listening part is the death of me, though.
@@Mr.S65 You're good! That's right. ;-) - Josh
Southern Italy is usually 10 degrees fahrenheit warmer than the north and in Summer around 39 celsius in the summer months.
hey guys, did you move to Braga? I see quite a lot of content from there when you talk about Portugal in this video
I lived in Italy for two years. As I recall English is not well known. One thing about italian language, Italians universally enunciate clearly. I dont know why this is the case but it makes listening to, and understanding Italian much easier than almost every other language.
Yup! Agreed. - Josh & Kalie
I totally agree!
Great video -- as requested below... I look forward to a comparison of Spain and Portugal. Spain's real estate I am constantly being told is generally lower
I am wondering what part of Italy you are using for this comparison. It is significantly higher priced in the North, and this is all categories (Housing, Food, Utilities, Entertainment, etc.) From the prices you used here it seems as though you are only using Northern costs. The difference between the North and South of Italy are as large as Italy vs Portugal as a whole. Southern Italy IMO is the most affordable area in all of Europe.
what about taxes?
you are spot on, Tuscany is triple what it cost in Puglia for everything. Outside of Lisbon/Porto and the Algarve, Portugal is dirt cheep and Portugal is tiny compared to Italy
Yeah, but South Italy doesn't have the healthcare or infrastructure that the North has and that is why the prices are very different
I fully agree
Great video! I think we will stick with Portugal. However, we did go to Italy for lunch once and it was amazing!
For lunch and immediately back?
Yes, just for lunch. We were spending a month in Nice and decided to hop on the train and go to Italy, right next door, for lunch. It was a marvelous day.
So you didn’t see anything
@@nicolettastrada5976 I like Cefalu Sicily because of the beach. Pasta con le sarde is good but not every day. Same with Pasta a la norma
I think it’s easier to live in Portugal and Italy is close enough to visit. The whole of Europe is close for Americans since we live in a Continent sized country. I do have a question concerning the Portuguese language requirement for nationality - PLA course or CIPLE Exam? 150 hours of lessons vs 90 minutes of testing?
apart from weird sentences like 'since we live in a continent sized country', are you aware that Europe is (slightly) bigger than the US?
I am going to be in Porto in March , hope I get to meet you guys 😀🥰
00:02 Italy is more expensive than Portugal in terms of cost of living
02:09 Portugal wins in cost of living and safety compared to Italy
06:26 Italy has a wide variety of food options.
08:37 Italy offers a wider variety of big cities with amenities compared to Portugal.
13:02 Comparison between the historical roots and societal dynamics of Portugal and Italy
15:21 Portugal healthcare vs Italy healthcare and Infrastructure
19:42 Air quality and quality of life differ based on specific situations and long-term factors
21:33 Both countries fall into the Mediterranean climate classification with varying degrees of weather and water advantages.
25:37 Comparison on living in Italy and Portugal
you compared torino. Expensive city in italy (besides Milano). Not a fair comparison imo, even if you say that Porto is also the most expensive in Portugal. Thats a small country and you wont have huge difference between porto or other "cities". While in italy there is a huge difference in different parts (being a big country) and i am not saying to compare a small village out of nowhere...
Taxis - i live in italy for 3 years never sat in a taxi. I live here and i am not a tourist, so i wouldnt add that to the cost of living too much. As a retired i rather have a car of my own than paying services like a cab.
fyi.: Not being able to pay by card in a taxi is illegal. I know you dont wanna be beaten by a driver but normally you can call the police if they insist on cash. By law it is mandatory to accept cards in taxis, tho it is a known problem that they "force" tourists to pay cash ("card machine isnt working" terrible practice...
Drinks are def. more expensive in Italy in restaurants. YOu guys go out a lot that might make a difference of course. yeah beer/wine is about 4eur (in Rome) or up if you go a fancier place. But again how much you wanna eat out? We eat out few times a month maybe, if that's a daily thing for you then yeah italy is expensive. Coffee is cheap in italy which is more important to me.
Safety: AGain italy is a huge country. There are places where it is totally unsafe to go and even violent crime is a problem and places where you would never have any problems, ever. Two of my friends just got mugged and beaten in Porto in two different occasions recently. People said it is not unusual to happen there, while this can happen in italy like bad neighbourhoods in Naples or Rome (Termini), there are tons of cities that are very safe in general, i.e.Verona, even Torino is a fairly safe. Pickpocketing is a problem in Italy everywhere.
Food: pasta and pizza. Again if you eat restaurants only. There are so much more to italian food than pasta and pizza. the different cheeses, parmigiano, peccorino, taleggio, tons of different prosciutto, mozzarella, bread and most importantly the fresh ingredients of vegetables, fruits...italy is clear winner of fresh ingredients and not the restaurant dishes which is a matter of taste rather than "quality", again imo.
Friendliness: portugese vs italian. Italians are extremely different in Piemond, Liguria or veneto, Toscana, Emilia-R., or Lazio but didnt even bring up the southern states. Comparing italy as country is a huge mistake. typical tourist thing to do after 2 weeks. Even italians argue among themselves where people are nice or terrible within italy. As if you generlize americans, when you know that a texan is very different from an east coast new yorker or a californian or a seattle person...Italy is a huge country with tons of local dialects and languages. Incomparable to a small country like Portugal.
just came back from lisbon and i dont find restaurants cheaper..while quality of food is incomparably better in italy. The only country can compete with italian quality of food is france. that's just my opinion. Otherwise great video and content. Liked...
More Italian propaganda from Hollywood? Portugal.is much better. Portuguese food and ingredients are much better, better fruit by far, better vegetables, the best fish in the world, best bananas in the world, best oranges in the worlds etc... stop the Italian propaganda. You don't know Portugal at all.
And by the way, Portugal is much better and much more beautiful than Italy.
@@joaoteixeira2386
In what sense? If you say so.
Portugal is smaller than the smallest region in Italy. Absolutely impossible to compare and it comes down to personal taste. Don’t get offended on someone’s opinion easily. It makes you look immature.
@@Nomad_783 that is exactly why is much better, it has much more diversity per square meter, it is much more cosy, clean and beautiful, etc etc
@@Nomad_783 not offended at all, it is just a very naive opinion, especially comparing our food which is much better than Italian, and also our products, fruit, fish, vegetables and even meat, although meet you can get good one in many countries
Man, it is too bad taxes are so high in both countries. I dont mind paying taxes, but to pay over 48%? a Gut a punch.
But you get good, free or low cost health care, great infrastructure, excellent education, THE SERVICES, THE AMENITIES. wake up & realize what you're paying for: it's not nothing
@@nmefdappl I would disagree about "great infrastructure"!
6:14 In the time it took to say that we could look into it ourselves, you could have said what ossobuco is.
8:11 You do eat all that food in the restaurants or at home for event meals.
I'm moving to Naples for my job this summer. The cost of living allowance, we receive, is higher in Italy than in Bahrain. I'm still loyal to FCP Dragões but will cheer on Napoli as my adopted team.
You're moving?! We had a friend a few years back that got stationed in Naples with work. Thanks for sharing. Hope you find your feet quickly and enjoy Napoli. - Josh & Kalie
@ExpatsEverywhere Si! My last assignment with Uncle Sam's Yacht Club. Then I can retire to greater Porto! 😃
@@elyseb674 We need a tee-shirt that says "Uncle Sam's Yacht Club". Be safe and enjoy it. - Josh & Kalie
The Italians are very friendly , enthusiastic and happy people in the World . The Portuguese people are friendly and more reserved . But they are both Latin people with a history of the Roman Empire of 2000 years . Mixed races throughout 2000 years .
Living costs in Italy have escalated since 2019. Taxis where always a ripoff in our country.
How does Torino compare to Porto in terms of size? Those are 2 cities I’m considering to retire?
Torino is much bigger but it's the greyest city in Italy, it's flat and it has a more urban vibe, while Porto is much more hilly but close to the ocean and less bike friendly apart from the coast. If u like the Alps better Turin, otherwise better Porto
Hi being an italian living in Portugal since 2018 I can confirm Italy is absolutely much more expensive!!! Rents can be similar after the surge they had but utilities…300 vs 30 for electricity just to give an example, than water bills, rubbish taxes that in italy are paid by renters too not like here that are paid only by owners, máfia táxi that do not allow uber to work and , i am sorry, do overcharge to foreigners too, sometimes A LOT!!! Portugal forever!!!! O sold my house in Italy and Will never go back
And I don t talk about safety AND cleaness….
Thanks for sharing, Laura. We hope you stay well. 😁 - Josh & Kalie
YES Thank you both, you are very nice. @@ExpatsEverywhere
I found Uber to be super unreliable in Italy, especially around Rome. I think you have a lot more gig economy workers who are unfamilar with the big city. I had 5-6 drivers who were unable to locate me in the city of Rome.
I never had any problems with Uber in Portugal or Brazil for that matter.
I’ve also found Italians to be less hospitable than other countries. It’s very clear there is a tourist problem there by all the rules they have for hotel stays, limits on AC usage, and general distaste for immigrants that they will openly admit to.
I struck up a conversation with a fine gentleman working on the top platform of the Leaning Tower of Pisa about soccer. He said he doesn’t watch the local teams much anymore because too many people from somewhere else. I found this distaste for immigrants in a lot of the cities throughout northern Italy.
It’s very sad how some of the African immigrants are treated there. Sure, they should hassle the tourists less but they shouldn’t be arrested and pushed around for just walking up to people.
You can feel the tension in Italy from the over abundance of people year round and I really didn’t care for that. It’s beyond beautiful to travel by train up and down that country though. It just wouldn’t like to live in that culture.
I am looking into it. I go there all the time, and like the place. I am going back there again this summer. But not easy to get things done if you live there; too much bureaucracy . As a tourist it is great place to visit though.
Which one are you looking into? We know you've had your eye on Portugal but are you referring to Italy here? - Josh & Kalie
@@ExpatsEverywhere Yes, Italy. I have been to some parts of it, like Verona, but again, not easy move there.
@@trave7644 Yea, it's not as easy a process as Portugal in terms of visas. - Josh & Kalie
I love the idea of being in Italy and the 'idea' of living there sometimes... but for me I think 'live in Portugal' and visit Italy. Funny though... I've traveled a lot, over the past 60 years... spent a LOT of time in NYC... and the only time I've ever been pick-pocketed was in Portugal. Can't lie, love Italian cuisine. Pastries, you can't beat the French... sorry... but I do have my favourites in Portugal too.
You know I love Portugal, but as language goes... I find Italian easier to understand and speak... and I think it's prettier. I think I'll be learning Portuguese for the rest of my life, LOL
So many good points made in this video, for either side...
As an Italian who lived in Portugal for a year (and I'm seriously considering the idea of moving back there because I really like it) I feel like there are waaaay too many factors to take into considerations in order to declare which one is "better for living". Plus this video is not even about that. I'm sorry but you guys having a couple of trips to Italy, and throwing a couple of datas in there, does not make you knowledgeable enough to make such a video. I wouldn't be able to do that either and I could have much more to say. It feels more like a guide on which country to visit from an American perspective (except for a couple of points, such as the taxes one), which is still debatable but that's your opinion as a tourist so that's fair enough.
Just to be clear, I'm saying all of this not to "defend" Italy. I'm not a patriotic person at all, again I love Portugal and there are good chances I'll move there again soon. I just feel like it's a superficial video and it's made by 2 people who haven't even lived in both countries (visiting and living are obviously two completely different things). It's also slightly misleading, especially in a couple of points. No offense intended, I watched a few other videos of this channel and you guys are really nice and make good contents, this comment wants to be a constructive criticism.
Fair enough but we also prefaced it at the beginning with the fact that we have only traveled to Italy. We didn’t say we lived there. Let’s be honest, these videos are for fun. To think about. To start a conversation. To scratch the surface. No 5, 10, 15, 25 minute video should replace one’s own research. Thanks for watching, commenting and critiquing. We’ll be making other videos like this though. - Josh & Kalie
It would be nice if you can put your points and votes in a table, lots of info.
Thanks for the feedback. This was the first type of video that we've done like this. Do you mean that we should show on the screen the votes and how they tally up or do you want a table like a spreadsheet to download? - Josh & Kalie
@@ExpatsEverywhere At least to see your table, marks and maybe comments.
Outstanding video. Great job! Just a couple of points starting at the end and working back. It's important to add that the high taxes provide health care for all. In the US my wife and I pay almost $1000 a month for our insurance. So add $12,000 to what we pay in taxes. On roads, at some point the powers that be decided it would be a good idea to sell advertising on their road sign posts. You will find a post with Luigi's Pizza sign at the top of seven other signs and near the bottom....Verona. You can easily miss your turnoff. No such problem in Portugal. And finally, the Portuguese are well aware that their language is spoken in only one other major country, Brazil, and so they have emphasized the teaching of the international language english for many decades. Italians are generally not crazy about speaking anything but Italian. In spite of being just next door to France and Austria, few Italians speak either french or german. Most hospitality people you will deal with when traveling will speak some english but outside of the cities, very little english is spoken. Again, great video. Oh, one more important thing. Italy is VERY vertical with difficult walking in most places. This will matter to retirees.
Brazilian Portuguese would be easier than European for sure. 😁
Italian is likely easier for American English speakers as well as American English is much easier than British for Brazilians. They're more clear languages with the vowels more clear and intense than the consonants. I'd dare to say more fluid, even. If you watch Brazilian TV with the textbook Portuguese you have you might be surprised. 🙂
Nice comparison between the two countries, thanks!
Still it's not that easy though. You don't have the stress-timed rythm of European Portuguese but you do have many vowels and consonants that don't exist in English - Brazilian Portuguese has 13 vowel sounds and more than 25 consonants (while European Portuguese has 14 vowel sounds and 22 consonant sounds). Italian is still way easier, as it has only 8 vowel sounds and has less consonant sounds than Portuguese.
Thank you! We're really interested in doing a video on how well we can understand Brazilian vs European Portuguese because obviously our main influence in the Portuguese language over the past 3 years has been the European dialect. - Josh & Kalie
So true! But there's the other side to it, which is Portuguese people are so helpful as we try to learn the language. - Josh & Kalie
If you're going to learn Portuguese, it would be better to learn it from the root, Portugal. It's like comparing English from England to American English.
Not really. It depends where you want to live. Plus there's way more Brazilians than Portuguese. Same with English, I'd rather know American than British. It's just more widely used around the world. @@BeYourselfMan
I've visited Italy and Portugal in the past, and I must say, considering its size, Portugal is superior in nearly every aspect. Everything just seems better there.
Did you go to Southern Italy? Apparently its much cheaper.
Yes, we have been. Basically we're just missing the islands and we've been to all the regions. :-) - Josh & Kalie
I am Italian and live in the metropolitan city of Milan 🇮🇹and it’s not true what you are saying . The city of Milan is very safe and Italy is a very safe country to live much safer than living in California or in other States of the USA .
Good points. I think for a vegetarian Italy is better as they have more veggie options as far as I know.
We think so too. - Josh & Kalie
What about the price of gelato?
It depends on where you go. ;-) It could be €15 HAHA - Josh & Kalie
Have you guys been to the Puglia region in Italy. I've seen on TH-cam that's it's still a good bargain especially if you live in a town of 17,000 or less which qualifies you for their discounted tax scheme.
Hey Chuck, at this point, Puglia is one of the few regions we haven't been to in Italy. It's got a good stretch of Adriatic coast though. - Josh & Kalie
@@ExpatsEverywhere They have white sandy beaches like those you would find in the panhandle of Florida but some in Puglia have white cliffs as well. The water is the same color as the Caribbean. I just saw a video from a retired American living there and 1 bdrm flats are typically 350 to 500 E per month with another 150 for utilities and phone. I love Portugal and my plan was to move there but losing the NHR and Golden Visa has made that unlikely for me now.
I spent a few months in Bari and Lecce. Two lovely and very different cities. Amazing food. Maybe the best in Italy. I’ve spent a lot of time in Italy, Spain, and Portugal and I have to say the availability of fresh veggies in Italy at restaurants is a huge advantage. Restaurant menus in Spain and Portuguese rarely offer “salads” or vegetable dishes. In Italy, you can easily get a variety of interesting and delicious salads (puntarelle with alici) and vegetables are featured in many dishes, so you can make healthier choices if you want to. I found the locals to be very warm and friendly and learning/speaking Italian is a pleasure, whereas I enjoy Portuguese (and Spanish less). Maybe it’s just because I find Italian more pleasing to the ear and easier to pronounce since you can take your time/stretch out the vowels.
15 years ago being mugged in Portugal was really a threat... don't know about now
We ate lobster and melon. In Italy the food especially in the south not so good to us.
Hmmm….Italy where??? I live in Sicily and the costs/expenses you mention are definitely not what I pay day to day.
Nationwide numbers www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/country_result.jsp?country=Italy Sicily is one of the cheapest from memory when I looked at the data. - Josh
Seems like a beautiful city. We have an apartment in Vila Nova de Gaia, but never actually ventured out to Póvoa or Vila do Conde. BTW that’s not how you pronounce “Póvoa” 😅. It has an accent on the “o”, so it’s POH-voa and not povo-AH
I disagree with you guys I’ve been living in Tuscany for four years and it’s very reasonable and housing is at an all time low.look at the guy that just got mugged two days ago
That's fine, Chef. Make a response video. We'll check it out. I was with Dave the night that happened, I came home and he stayed out. Do you believe that saying "look at the guy that just got mugged two days ago" is an indication of overall probability of violence in each country? That's odd to me. - Josh
Italy has too many problems with the infrastructure. Bridges and tunnels are almost collapsing due to lack of maintenance (partly because of corruption) in the last few decennium
Smoking. I found smoking in Portugal a lot worse than in Italy. Which equates to air quality and quality of life.
Interesting. According to Eurostat Italy ranks just below Portugal in terms of smoking prevalence (Daily percentage of smokers among persons aged 15 and over). 16.8 to 17.6 - Josh
@@ExpatsEverywhere it's more than statistics. In Italy people are more respectful of non-smoking designated areas. In Portugal these lines either do not exist or they are just blurry at best. Other than this one thing, we found Portugal a perfect country for flexpats like us. Smoking issue is not a deal breaker.
@@HeartCoffeeTime If we want to be anecdotal then, we'd say that Portuguese do a better job regarding not smoking around children than any country we've been to in Southern Europe. Any time someone sees us with Cia (our 4 year old daughter), they'll tuck their cigarette away, move it to the other side, or wave their arms around to dissipate the smoke (silly and doesn't really work but valiant effort). I guess I say that to say, we (you all and Kalie & I) have different experiences in each country so this is why statistics are important to look at.
We agree though, smoking isn't a deal breaker although it's something we don't like anywhere. Our time in Spain before their new smoking laws came in, in 2010, was rough. - Josh & Kalie
Pretty sure all those indexes are wrong...
Italian tax is crazy high... fk they need to change that income tax should be 10 , 20% max , not 45% like wtf is that....
What is that for a weird mix of talking about culture and then family, mixing that and a question about friendliness together? This shows just a lack of knowledge about history/culture AND the inability to separate categories. Italy has historically and culturally by far more to offer than Portugal (not just due to its bigger size). This is a no brainer. Of course not for ppl which knowledge ends with vague associations like 'ok, this is pretty old stuff and that is pretty old stuff' (and I do not talk here in particular about Americans. Every European who even doesnt know what for instance the Holy Roman Empire' and 'Hanseatic League' is, is basically historically uneducated). That Portuguese are on average more friendly than Italians is true but should not be mixed in the same category (also not those family aspects). Another really irrational talk was about the Climate/Weather. 'He basically: Italy is more cold, Portugal more warm' (which is nonsense. You have more variety in Italy from colder to warm to hot). 'She: ok, water is warmer in Italy' (without recognizing that this is quite the opposite of what he said). Both then agree (in a typical stupid group dynamic of kind of wanting a result) on that 'Portugal wins here' (while this is obviously a stupid conclusion) ...
Do you acknowledge that the word culture has two meanings? One of those meanings is "the ideas, customs, and social behavior of a particular people or society."
@@ExpatsEverywhere yep, but this doesnt mean that it makes sense to mix that in every context - and priorize even some contemporary impressons about friendliness. thats like saying: ok, Europe has a lot of complex word history/culture, shaped strongly the entire planet but ppl in the Dominikan Republic are a bit nicer, so culturally they win. Do you really think thats a competent conclusion and right way to sort 'culture'?
Another nuance regarding retirement in both countries: there is a 10yrs/7% tax in Italy for those living in small towns in the south. And as you know, in Portugal cancelling NHR mode. BTW, what is a status of that? I mean, how difficult it would be for your government to create an economic program to encourage building new houses to fix housing crisis, you have a semi-socialist country. That would propel Portugal in Europe.
Yes, that's a very nuanced program that you're referring to because of the geographic limitations, you have to decide is it worth moving there for the tax break and potential have issues with a lower level of medical infrastructure. We've been hearing rumors of NHR 2.0 but nothings going to happen until after March's election is our guess. - Josh & Kalie
Are you one of those people who use the word socialist left and right, as an insult, without knowing what it means?
@@Maria-js9ou I lived 1/2 of my life in former USSR (state has a Lot of power). I am just saying Portugal is way to the left from countries like US. No offense, no insults.
The South of Italy 🇮🇹 is more or less like Portugal because in either places there is no industry just tourism . But Italy is a very rich country because of a very developed industrial North which is the basis of the economic power of Italy . The metropolitan city of Milan 🇮🇹is the World Capital of Fashion the Textile industry was created here in the 1400 AD , the Chemical Industry is the first in the World and in Italy we have the oldest Universities in Europe and lots of Banks . There is no such thing in Portugal with all due respect except in the capital Lisbona . The size of Italy 🇮🇹 is 10 times bigger than Portugal . The population of Italy is 60 million people . The cultivating area is huge . Spain is a very rich country with lots of Universities and the raw materials . Portugal not . There are no job opportunities for Americans in Portugal . 🇵🇹 but what I noticed is that in Portugal people speak many languages English and French and Spanish . This is because of the border with Spain and because of the UK 🇬🇧 tourists . The geographical position of the country . The public transportation in the Northern Italy is based on subways and you don’t need a taxi . In Portugal to move from Faro to Lagos you need to take a taxi which is very expensive . The trains are Ok
Thanks for sharing. I thought Portugal has better healthcare system compared to Italy because of experience there. I will retire in Portugal 👍🏾🌏
You're welcome. Both are good. Let's be honest. - Josh & Kalie
Portugal's healthcare is fantastic. Even private care is cheaper than Italy with better care in my opinion.
Found your commentary very biased !! You live in Portugal how can you compare!! No comparison . The difference in pop. and tourists. 😮 And language you have to be kidding even comparing!!! Go to the towns
Give your comparison. It's okay.
The standard of living in Lisboa Portugal 🇵🇹 and in the metropolitan city of Milan 🇮🇹 Italy is very high . The quality of life is higher in both cities . The difference is that Milan 🇮🇹 it’s an industrial city and it’s known as the first Industrial city of Europe long before Germany 🇩🇪 dated 1400 . Milan it’s the first Mittle European Industrial city of the first Industrial Revolution after London . Milan has job opportunities while Portugal or Lisboa with 10 million people it does not have jobs for American people . In the South of Italy the weather is warm in Sicily . Portugal does not have Industry . The only industry in Portugal is the fishing industry . Milan is the World Capital of Fashion and Torino is the first Industrial city of cars manufacturing Fiat and Alfa Romeo . Portugal does not manufacture cars . The country is beautiful for tourism and the cities don’t have job opportunities . The geographical position of Portugal is in a disadvantage because the country lacks raw materials but it’s beautiful as a resort town for retired people but not for young people.
Great video overall. I think one area to discuss that was not covered, is bureaucracy. General as well as building and remodelling . From what I see and hear, Italy is 100 times worse then Portugal.
nobody uses taxis in Italy we have public transport. Americans need to learn how to walk.
Maybe "nobody" uses taxis because of the cost. As for me and Kalie, we do walk. Shall we share our step count? ;-) - Josh
@@ExpatsEverywhere sure why not? Taxis are very expensive in Italy. Only tourists who can't navigate themselves to the metro use them.
@@relocatetoItaly Maybe, but for example for us, we have a kid and needed to be at the train station at an hour and location the bus wasn't running so we took a taxi. We, personally, don't make it a habit to use taxis in Italy because of the cost and prefer to walk or take public transportation, whereas in Portugal it might be marginally more expensive if 2-3 adults are riding to take an Uber and get from door to door vs taking public transportation and having to walk. Speed and efficiency. - Josh
@@ExpatsEverywhere sure
Yes...go quickly. They have houses for 1 euro to buy.
HAHA with a lot of hoops to jump through in areas that have houses for sale for a euro because well real estate is all about location, location, location. - Josh & Kalie
Funny
Just remember, you get what you pay for.
08:25 You're going to be cancelled by every Portuguese out there... LOL
HAHA. We've gotta be honest and genuine though, right? Also, we're not too sure that we get a lot of Portuguese viewers anymore. - Josh & Kalie
C'mon! We need to give them a break. They used popularity as the criteria. Let's not cancel them because of that just yet 😝!
@@ExpatsEverywhere Of course. ;)
@@veronicadcf HAHA
@@diogorodrigues747 Okay, we've created a poll. Let's let the people speak. Hopefully people will vote honestly so we can see if there's bias. - Josh & Kalie
Honesty and good vs narcissistic thieves... Easy, Viva Portugal!
A very common practice in Portugal is to burn your plastic inside your fireplace and outside I have witnessed multifull families doing this. This about hart plasic plastic
olivia, ????? Plástico nas lareiras????
Guys, I love your videos but you could dial back a bit on the generic clip art. You don't need it, the videos are good by themselves.
Hi, Nichols. We're trying out a new editor and this was his first video with us. - Josh & Kalie
Italy cecilia is near africa
Cecilia??? A nice girl
24:52 In reality, for 2024, you only enter the 45% bracket at €51.997. From 39.790€ to 51.996€ it is 43.5%
Thanks, Maria. Can you drop a link to that figure? A lot of publications are still posting above 50k for the top tax bracket.
Italy gets 3X the number of tourist
In the category of Emigration in Europe: Destination countries and percentages of emigrants, Italy is the 7th lowest in emigrants compared to those immigrating,
Portugal is 32nd of 35.
So now tell me Portugal is better.
I've stopped watching after 4 minutes: it's well known there are big issues with taxi, however in terms of cost of living comparing Rome and Lisbon , Rome is way more affordable! Regarding beers, where exactly is the competition here in Lisbon? Choices in lisbon are between 2 local beers and a weird brand ... When you deal with 100 competitors, then you will see how the price will rise !
8:48 Lisbon metro is 2,5 Million, Rome is 2,8 Million that's not so different.
Btw, Lisbon was founded circa 1200 bC, while Rome was founded in 753 bC. Lisbon is older
Italy is an impossible country to live in, not only because of the very high cost of living but also because of a frightening macho closed mentality. I have experienced it personally and I want to leave Italy mainly for this reason. My life has been hell in Italy!
So sorry to hear about your experience there. Thank you for sharing. - Josh & Kalie
Nice video, but while I agree with some parts, some other parts are either uncomparable or simply wrong. I think that comparing culture/historical sites of Italy with Portugal is simply crazy. Italy has 53 World Heritage sites, while Portugal has 16, so it is not more or less the same. I understand that you are basing your opinion on your perception, but that sounded a bit ridiculous to hear. Moreover, the bias of living in Portugal is very much present i n your considerations. You should live for a long time in both places to have a more balanced opinion. Italy is way bigger than Portugal, and it also has a lot more diversity across regions, so you still need to explore a lot in Italy, and you will see the freandliness, or say healthcare, changes significantly from region to region, same as culture, costumes, foods...italy got united in late 18th century, and before then it was a bunch of indipendent states, and that is why there is some much cultural differences among regions...doing such comparisons can only create divisions though. I would definetly not compare countries in such a way, as the law of numbers would lead Italy to win in so many aspects just because there is/was a lot more going on.
I visited Italy several times. It is not a safe place to be. And it is outright dangerous if you are an attractive woman. A few friends of mine share the same sentiments. Italy is a place to visit but I wouldn’t move there. Heritage sites promote the tourism but if you live there that sort of thing gets old fast.
World Index of Healthcare Innovation ranks Italy 30 and Portugal 22 for the win.😊
"Healthcare Innovation" is different than healthcare system ranking. Innovation will play its part in the overall healthcare ranking from what we see though. - Josh & Kalie
Portugal hands down !!
I think Italians have more pomp and circumstance, and a rigide class system and a lot of social etitquette than Portugal or Spain( where I've been living for 26 years). As for the language, for a native English speaker I think Italian and Portuguese have elements that are harder in one language and easier than the other. I've studied both of them and I'm fluent in Spanish. Oddly enough I find Italian to be closer to French in vocabulary and structure. One of the big historical difference when I compare Portugal and Spain to Italy is that the Italians don't have 900 years of islamic influence in their country like Portugal and Spain do. It's fascinating. I liked your video!
shopping and women and culture is better in italy.
When it comes to attractive women Italy beats Portugal by a country mile. Actually alot of European countries beat Portugal in this as well.
Don't let Italy fool you. Italy has a lot of crime in most major cities. Living in Italy can be very frustrating. Portugal is not as safe as they say, but as a person who has lived in both places, Portugal is a lot safer. Safety is also a state of mind. I actually got robbed in Portugal, by a lot , so I don't view Portugal as safe as other people. Portugal is poor, but it's far from 3rd world.
Portugal wins again.
Stay away from the central stations …
I'll be honest, I'm Brazilian, and I was living in Italy (Milan) for couple months, and then I went to Portugal, and my first impression was very disappointing. The people were very rude with me, and Milan is way more developed than Porto or Lisbon. But after couple days I started to enjoy Portugal... As a Brazilian I think Portugal is the Brazilian dream... It's like a safe and clean Brazil, so you feel like living in a very "familiar" environment. In Italy you live something completely different than the usual which could be good or not... Definitely easier to get use in Portugal...
The Portuguese language is the same like in Brazil and it cannot be a problem for you .
Ninguém chamou o Brasil para a conversa
@@user-bx8so1zv2l the language in Portugal isn't a problem for sure... That's one of the reasons why I said it's easier to get use to live in Portugal...
17:00 Italy wins for infrastructure! Water in Portugal is better, - the problem of Portugal is that concentrates too much on the two cities, while not really being that good. An idea: the best portuguese train is an italian one - the Pendolini or Alfa Pendular.
I can accept everything, but Portugal better than Italy regarding Culture and Society it's an insult to cultured minds. No offence for Portugal but he can't fight with 2024 years of hystorical culture and societiea revolutions.
Warmer weather in Portugal, really? Is costantly windy, and often with strong winds due the Atlantic Ocean. No way Portugal is warmer than Italy.
Regarding "culture and society", we're talking about now and not the past. What current cultural norms and what the society is like now and which is more appealing to live in. Culture has multiple means, which is why we tried to explain the one we were using in that section. - Josh & Kalie
... no se pueden comparar Italia y Portugal ... son dos países distintos ... mientras Portugal es un país pequeño y más uniforme, Italia es un país relativamente moderno (se unificó en 1871) formado por muchos países distintos y una lengua (el italiano) que le impusieron a todo el país como factor unificador ... ... ... Italia y Portugal, ambos países tienen mucho en común y a la vez son muy diferentes ... yo personalmente prefiero Portugal para vivir (es más amigable y calmado) y a Italia se puede visitar de vacaciones pero no para vivir ...
Portuguese food is much better, more variety. You guys need to try more food. Both salty, sweets and wine, Portugal is better.
Hi Emerson, are you Portuguese? - Josh & Kalie
@@ExpatsEverywhere No.