Excellent video! You even looked at the rare Reverse Exchange Grunfeld in which Black can easily overextend and, even if does not, White gets an enduring initiative attacking Black’s center as White’s playing the Grunfeld a tempo up. Since most 1.Nf3 players go into either a Reti set up or a KIA set up, most players of the Black pieces have never studied these positions and over extend leading to a quick opening or early middle game loss and often even they don’t over extend the positions tend to transpose into a sort of delayed closed Catalan with White’s pawns on c4 & d4, Nf3 & kingside fianchetto, while Black has pawns at c5,d5, Nc6, Nf6 and either e6 with Be7 or Bf4/Bg5 with e6. These positions are much tricker to handle properly than most players of the White pieces realize! IMHO players of the Black pieces tend to underestimate the dangers of such positions because in most openings they’re struggling just to get their fair share of space with both of their pawns in the center, and once they do the believe they’ve equalized… but when the center clears White’s fianchettoed bishop comes to life and their queenside becomes vulnerable. Anyway, thanks again for truly excellent video on a rarely discussed topic, pros and cons of various initial move orders.
13:35 This is a critical try in g3 slav but through the 3.g3 move order black doesn't have to allow this, they can play 3... Bf5 4. c4 e6 5. Nc3 h6 and they'll transpose to the less critical g3 slav lines So both 3... Bf5 and 3... c5 are good ways for black to play in this move order
I have been loving these Catalan videos, do you suggest getting a course on it? Like srinath or Alonzo’s on Chessable? Or just learning it and ideas as you play more and more
Sielecki‘s (chessexplained) Keep it simple 1.d4 course on chessable is actually a complete 1.d4 course that tries to play 1.d4 2.Nf3 3.g3 against all black defenses. It is a very solid repertoire that I used to reach 2000 fide, but now that competition is fiercer I‘m trying to expand my openings
Interesting video and nice being included, and I agree with a lot of what you said. I just don't totally agree with everything said in the c4 moveorder. While it was listed as a con that one has to play the normal flank pawn opening stuff, but the Moveorder opens up a lot for white. The symmetrical English in my opinion is in style not so far away from the catalan with the strong diagonal bishop and more often that not having a space advantage and slight tempo advantage against black. The reverse sicilian is not something for everyone, but i play the Sveshnikov with black and the sicilian is pretty much the only opening that i have played against e4 since the first year where i learnt chess, so obviously I am not scared of this. Additional value, and for me to of the crucial points, one why I originally played the wojo move order and one why i now play 1. c4, is because you dodge the slav and more importantly the Grünfeld. The only positions where I have the feeling that black can try and play super aggressively is the KID, which I have learned not to fear. Most things that apply to 1. C4 apply to 1. Nf3 too, to a lesser extent, although I probably hat 1. ... d5 as an answer like 60% of the time, which after 2. d4 made a catalan far more likely than in the English. In the end, if ones goal is to reach the catalan as often as possible, then I would not recommend 1. c4, but i feel comfortable with more or less every line i play and in that, i have the feeling that my positions are slightly more enjoyable.
Hey I play the catalan system prac against everything in 1 d4 however i face a lot of trouble in dutch particularly when the opponent doesnt go for stonewall.could you please do a video on how to play against the Dutch
If you’re a 1d4 player & facing the Dutch 1…f5, you could try the Staunton Gambit (an early e4) or the Hopkins attack.. (Bg5) to impede Black’s normal kingside development. Also, if you start with 1.Nf3, you can try a delayed Tennison Gambit… ie 1.Nf3,f5 2.d3, Nf6 3.e4!, fxe 4.dxe, Nxe 5. Bd3, Nf6, 6.Ng5! when White gets a good attack. Another option is just enter normal Dutch & try to expel Black’s Ne4 thru exchanges or more rarely f3 (after castling to avoid Black’s shot Qh4+).
Hey Sam, I have wanted to try the Catalan for a long time but I've been put off by the many possible responses to it KID included. Do you have a lesson where the Catalan is reached via the 1. Nf3 d5 move order with a delayed c4 to prevent the Bb4+ responses?
If you want to dodge the Bb4+ line, your best bet is 1.c4. The problem is, if you really want to dodge it with 1. Nf3, you have to learn all of the reverse Grünfeld stuff or the reverse Benoni, and that approach can also be less forcing for black, means he can do whatever he wants and be fine. I think the three critical approaches are either. 1. d4 and go down the mainlines, guess you have to learn Bb4+, 1. Nf3 d5 2. d4, and you guessed it, once again play the mainlines, or 1. c4, you actually get to dodge a lot of stuff and if it is what you desire you can play other lines into the slav, but here you have to learn the reverse sicilian, I assume you already know the symmetrical English if you play 1. Nf3.
@eugencharles3384 thanks for the reply. I guess I don't mind the Bb4+ lines that much. What I'd really love to avoid are the KID, Grunfeld type of defenses. What move order would you suggest for this?
all KID people at ur level only know about f5 and that, learning a line where white attacks kingside like a samsich kings indian, or an semi_averbakh can get you good results
I don't have any content specifically on the 1.Nf3 d5 move order. Also, the KID is something you can't really avoid - that is possible via every move order. Similar story for Grunfeld - although maybe the ...c6+...d5 Grunfeld setups you can do some tricky stuff if you play 1.Nf3 or 1.c4
@@khodion KID in itself isn't really nice to dodge, unless you decide to just play against it like against the reverse sicilian, meaning you actually just play a closed Sicilian from blacks side with a tempo up. Grünfeld is dodgeable with 1. C4 Nf6 2. Nc3 G6 3. E5, this Moveorder is often employed at grandmaster level specifically to dodge the grünfeld, and you can just put Nf3 into the Moveorder too and it doesn't make a great difference. Dodging the Grünfeld isn't a bad idea, dodging the KID can work out, but I honestly would recommend to just put some work into it.
Do you think new/intermediate players should play e4 or d4? Or that it doesn't matter? Some chess teachers say that e4 openings tend to teach newers players more concrete goals and ideas - I myself play e4 because of this but d4 seems fun to try, albeit less intuitive
Could watch these Catalan videos for hours
Criminally underrated content
Excellent video! You even looked at the rare Reverse Exchange Grunfeld in which Black can easily overextend and, even if does not, White gets an enduring initiative attacking Black’s center as White’s playing the Grunfeld a tempo up. Since most 1.Nf3 players go into either a Reti set up or a KIA set up, most players of the Black pieces have never studied these positions and over extend leading to a quick opening or early middle game loss and often even they don’t over extend the positions tend to transpose into a sort of delayed closed Catalan with White’s pawns on c4 & d4, Nf3 & kingside fianchetto, while Black has pawns at c5,d5, Nc6, Nf6 and either e6 with Be7 or Bf4/Bg5 with e6. These positions are much tricker to handle properly than most players of the White pieces realize! IMHO players of the Black pieces tend to underestimate the dangers of such positions because in most openings they’re struggling just to get their fair share of space with both of their pawns in the center, and once they do the believe they’ve equalized… but when the center clears White’s fianchettoed bishop comes to life and their queenside becomes vulnerable. Anyway, thanks again for truly excellent video on a rarely discussed topic, pros and cons of various initial move orders.
vow, another Catalan video :), keep them coming. thanks Sam
13:35
This is a critical try in g3 slav but through the 3.g3 move order black doesn't have to allow this, they can play 3... Bf5 4. c4 e6 5. Nc3 h6 and they'll transpose to the less critical g3 slav lines
So both 3... Bf5 and 3... c5 are good ways for black to play in this move order
Yes that move order is quite annoying - but again its one of those things that not many are aware of.
Youre so underrated bruh
Very cool opening!
sam thanks for making so many catalan videos, i like to put them on when i bring girls home after dates (or men)
great to hear the catalan is improving all aspects of your life
I have been loving these Catalan videos, do you suggest getting a course on it? Like srinath or Alonzo’s on Chessable? Or just learning it and ideas as you play more and more
Sielecki‘s (chessexplained) Keep it simple 1.d4 course on chessable is actually a complete 1.d4 course that tries to play 1.d4 2.Nf3 3.g3 against all black defenses. It is a very solid repertoire that I used to reach 2000 fide, but now that competition is fiercer I‘m trying to expand my openings
Interesting video and nice being included, and I agree with a lot of what you said. I just don't totally agree with everything said in the c4 moveorder. While it was listed as a con that one has to play the normal flank pawn opening stuff, but the Moveorder opens up a lot for white. The symmetrical English in my opinion is in style not so far away from the catalan with the strong diagonal bishop and more often that not having a space advantage and slight tempo advantage against black. The reverse sicilian is not something for everyone, but i play the Sveshnikov with black and the sicilian is pretty much the only opening that i have played against e4 since the first year where i learnt chess, so obviously I am not scared of this. Additional value, and for me to of the crucial points, one why I originally played the wojo move order and one why i now play 1. c4, is because you dodge the slav and more importantly the Grünfeld. The only positions where I have the feeling that black can try and play super aggressively is the KID, which I have learned not to fear. Most things that apply to 1. C4 apply to 1. Nf3 too, to a lesser extent, although I probably hat 1. ... d5 as an answer like 60% of the time, which after 2. d4 made a catalan far more likely than in the English. In the end, if ones goal is to reach the catalan as often as possible, then I would not recommend 1. c4, but i feel comfortable with more or less every line i play and in that, i have the feeling that my positions are slightly more enjoyable.
never playing the jobava london again
Well done heyyy
Catalan is very effective. Helped me gain 108 elo points in a week (67 rapid games). This and pirc defense/kid
Those are the openings I use.
me too 😀
Hey I play the catalan system prac against everything in 1 d4 however i face a lot of trouble in dutch particularly when the opponent doesnt go for stonewall.could you please do a video on how to play against the Dutch
If you’re a 1d4 player & facing the Dutch 1…f5, you could try the Staunton Gambit (an early e4) or the Hopkins attack.. (Bg5) to impede Black’s normal kingside development. Also, if you start with 1.Nf3, you can try a delayed Tennison Gambit… ie 1.Nf3,f5 2.d3, Nf6 3.e4!, fxe 4.dxe, Nxe 5. Bd3, Nf6, 6.Ng5! when White gets a good attack. Another option is just enter normal Dutch & try to expel Black’s Ne4 thru exchanges or more rarely f3 (after castling to avoid Black’s shot Qh4+).
the key way to win in the dutch is to control the e5 sqaure in the stonewall, if they play like a leningrad dutch study some theory ngl
Hey Sam, I have wanted to try the Catalan for a long time but I've been put off by the many possible responses to it KID included.
Do you have a lesson where the Catalan is reached via the 1. Nf3 d5 move order with a delayed c4 to prevent the Bb4+ responses?
If you want to dodge the Bb4+ line, your best bet is 1.c4. The problem is, if you really want to dodge it with 1. Nf3, you have to learn all of the reverse Grünfeld stuff or the reverse Benoni, and that approach can also be less forcing for black, means he can do whatever he wants and be fine. I think the three critical approaches are either. 1. d4 and go down the mainlines, guess you have to learn Bb4+, 1. Nf3 d5 2. d4, and you guessed it, once again play the mainlines, or 1. c4, you actually get to dodge a lot of stuff and if it is what you desire you can play other lines into the slav, but here you have to learn the reverse sicilian, I assume you already know the symmetrical English if you play 1. Nf3.
@eugencharles3384 thanks for the reply.
I guess I don't mind the Bb4+ lines that much. What I'd really love to avoid are the KID, Grunfeld type of defenses.
What move order would you suggest for this?
all KID people at ur level only know about f5 and that, learning a line where white attacks kingside like a samsich kings indian, or an semi_averbakh can get you good results
I don't have any content specifically on the 1.Nf3 d5 move order.
Also, the KID is something you can't really avoid - that is possible via every move order. Similar story for Grunfeld - although maybe the ...c6+...d5 Grunfeld setups you can do some tricky stuff if you play 1.Nf3 or 1.c4
@@khodion KID in itself isn't really nice to dodge, unless you decide to just play against it like against the reverse sicilian, meaning you actually just play a closed Sicilian from blacks side with a tempo up. Grünfeld is dodgeable with 1. C4 Nf6 2. Nc3 G6 3. E5, this Moveorder is often employed at grandmaster level specifically to dodge the grünfeld, and you can just put Nf3 into the Moveorder too and it doesn't make a great difference. Dodging the Grünfeld isn't a bad idea, dodging the KID can work out, but I honestly would recommend to just put some work into it.
What opening as white after d4 have less side lines to learn?
Do you think new/intermediate players should play e4 or d4? Or that it doesn't matter? Some chess teachers say that e4 openings tend to teach newers players more concrete goals and ideas - I myself play e4 because of this but d4 seems fun to try, albeit less intuitive
I kind of feel beginners should start with 1.e4, but at the same time things probably aren't that black and white.