ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ก.ย. 2024
- wing tuck at cloudbase followed by full frontal collapse. Risers twist, untwist and twist again. Wing is cravatted and in slow spiral. Attempts to clear cravat using stabilo line fail.
Cravat is popped using control line on flying side and spiral in opposite direction before recovering.
![[UNCUT] “บอสณวัฒน์” ลากไส้!! ใครหนุนหลัง "แม่ตั๊ก ป๋าเบียร์" I คนดังนั่งเคลียร์ I 30 ก.ย. 67](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/QlD7mU2KKRk/mqdefault.jpg)
Your rapid descent technique style is unique!!
)))
you sir. Are funny!
I see no active piloting reaction there… after a while i even started thinking that the pilot had passed out..
no appropriate weight shifting .. no outside break … no assymetric stall to sort out the cravate.. no fly back attempt…
Not sure that there is any corralation between the wing and the technical level of the pilot
Anyway, glad he made it out safely
Totally agree.
Thanks for all the comments and opinions.
It’s been an interesting video for me to watch, analyze and
reflect on.
In several years of flying I haven’t had to deal with a
situation like this before so it took some time to assess and process my moves.What looks like a long period doing nothing in the video was
for me not so long and seemed a pretty busy time. I knew had altitude on my side so panic was not my first option.
There was 15 or 20 seconds from the initial collapse where I
was out of shape and the riser was twisted before the wing stabilized into a
spiral with a cravat.
For the next 30 seconds and more I was fixated on clearing
the cravat rather than trying to open up the spiral and fly straighter. I was trying to get hold of the stabilo line but
the lines were loose and it took time to make sure I had the right line and to get
hold of the single line with my gloved hand. Once I had it, it didn’t do much
anyway. I passed the line into my other hand so I could get a hold of the line
further up but it made no difference. I gave up on the stabilo.
I was thinking then to stall. When I applied brake on the flying side
with the intention of stall the cravat came out pretty abruptly before setting up
into the tight spiral in the opposite direction. After that things wound back down
to a less intense pace and I could take a breath and think about Christmas presents
and other stuff.
On reflection I could have handled the situation much better…
Live and learn
Paragliding Savety Training helps to practice trouble shooting.
Live and learn? If you have to think what you need to do when a collapse happens you shouldn't be flying an EN-C glider. Period. Learning should be done on a low performance glider. Downgrade and live. Then learn.
"I was thinking then to stall. When I applied brake on the flying side with the intention of stall the cravat came out pretty abruptly" when you braked it did stall and it seems you raised your left hand straight away which caused the glider to surge and caused the LHS cravat. If you hold the stall (braking both sides) then control the release you should be able to avoid the other cravat. SIV courses are a great opportunity to practice these skills so they become automatic when you really need them. Pleased that the situation ended ok, happy flying.
Thank you for being brave enough to post the video, I’ve learnt a lot from it. A lot of the comments are useless, but some are stored away just in case it’s my turn one day. Thanks
Terrible handling of the situation, a pilot who doesn't know the basics of stop a rotation flying an En C wing. Should be flying an En A.
With a big cravat on the right like that, pulling the stabi-line has no effekt.
Just a real break input on the left will stop this.
The break pulls I saw are near to no reaction.
First prio is to stop the rotation.
Had a similar cravat on my EnZo2 - only a strong stop on the left (nearly a full stall).
First stop the rotation, then clear the cravat. Little imput on counter steering thats why you got the spirals
RIGHT!!!!
I think you were scared and were frozen. If you have had a siv training you would know that stalling was the clean solution for your right cravat. But you also did nothing about the spinning. You could correct it with your left break.
After all you came healthy out of this situation.
My advise try to fly with wing that has big passive safety and in calmer conditions until you get your siv course it will let you grow safely and fast.
Cheers
Found it a bit weird that he didn't pull the left brake all that time in the autorotation. Time to think was enough...
@@LukeSchneider he got frozen from panic. And he didn't have the skills to do so.
The whole mess could had been avoided if you were active flying. You are near a dark cloud with a hot wing and you have your hand (at least your left one) resting on the risers 1:33 . You've gotten a frontal and no reaction. If you were active flying you could immediately feel the loss of pressure and you could had pump the breaks avoiding the mess. However I have to admit that was a cool save but unnecessary.
I've been flying a few months and noticed this. Was also surprised, but then thought maybe he was using bar to get away before entering the cloud..?
You need to actively fly your wing not sit back and look at it dancing all over the sky.
great way to escape cloud suck!
😁
c'est moi où y'a aucune réaction du pilote durant toute l'autorot ?
great , bro alse you can do full stall and b stall that's whay siv for.
A cool vid. The glider decided to spiral for him. Very intelligent glider 😊
yeah cant imagine him going up in to that cloud :/
Gotta say, great fucking work!!!! You stuck with it, made it happen! Proud to see pilots who are keeping it together! Hell yes!!!
Woow! buddy I will recomend you take some serious SIV course with some experts. It was complete lack of piloting and if you would be close to the ground you would be dead.
Looks like you went from XC to acro (SAT to SAT) :-D Glad you're alive. Take a SIV for your own good, mate.
One way to escape cloud suck!!
Glad the pilot made it! But daaaamn I was nervous here behind my desk screaming "do something goddamit!"
There’s a time and a place to practice “there is no spoon” bends with the mind… but bro. Hurling towards the ground in an autorotation is not one of them 😂
Good save in the end. All is well that ends well. Pilot lost about 1000 mtrs in 1 min 20 seconds or so. That should be a spiral at 12.5 mtrs per second which is hmmmm not too bad considering one can do excess of 18-20 mtrs/sec depending on wing loading. Also, was less than 2 G most of the time which is pretty easy. However, with a ride like this one can easily get disoriented. Good nerves and good height helped.
Noticed that no effort was made to use left brake to slow down the rotation. Guess pilot was busy trying to pump the cravat out. Also, its never really a good idea to hang around below a developed cloud. I mean whats the point?
To try and win a race is the point
You have balls - after this problem solved - again going into this thermal, sick! I would've flown far away and would land as soon as possible... Congrats for the awesome save btw!
Nice descent technique, they never tought me the 50% cravat in my SIV 😂
Huumm, if you stay in a good thermal and you wish to came out from the thermal you have to do it against the wind direction, or you get exactly what you get, a brave collapse, second, in a emergency situation your input have to been strong and adequate, the spiral down should be stopped soion or, reserve, no way to stay with such G force very dangerous to pass out, and you did bnot apply any brake to reduce the spiral, are you shure you did not pass out? It seems so.
Lost a little more than 1000 meters while fighting that mess. I kept waiting to see the reserve tossed. Not sure how I'd have handled that. In 20 years I've never had it that bad. I guess I'd have tried for a full stall or tossed??? I can say I'd have been looking to land pretty quick after that.
All started with not with a "tuck" it is called: an asymmetric collapse, that was not handled at all. The pilot should not fly wigs like this EN-C. He needs a wing that handles everything by itself -"hands up" En-A or Low EN-B.
seem like he sorted it out though. was a nasty crevat almost half the wing tucked in. id say he done a good job. you could have argued that he should have thrown his reserve and really alot early into the turn. but bottom line he sorted it out as he had loads of height in reserve where many of us would have given up. id say a good effrt that
There is no wing that "handles everything by itself."
Lost 1000 metres in the process. Height was your friend:-)
Will take lots of courage to keep flying, I've seen many pilots quit after far less serious incidents. Be aware of PTSD and hopefully you have many more flights Toby. Thanks for the video!
PTSD? Dude, seriously? :D
PTSD? This is a partially collapsed canopy not the fucking Vietcong.
Houston - I have a problem
For starters, it's not a dangerous cloud, strong climb, yes, but how many aren't in Manila that time of year. And I rarely see a genuine reason for rapid descent manouevers (which is what caused this in the first place) - because they don't get you away from the lift source. Far better to get a fix on your direction before you lose sight of ground, then relax and concentrate primarily on pitch control, and compass heading. You will inevitably fly out the side of the cloud. But given that it happened, full stall straight away (or 'backfly' as some are calling it), only way or getting a cravat that size out.
1000 meters fall with no reaction by the pilot, what happened?
LOL, I was thinking the same, time to go for a DHV 1 wing?
Great video. Thanks for sharing. A couple of years ago I had a really bad asymetrical collapse and violently spiralled scaring shit out of me. Now I know what I'd do differently. I'd shift body weight to the flying side to minimize the turn. Seems like this could be the case in here too, but the video doesn't show the full picture. Hope you stay safe fellow paraglider
Back to training. Very little active piloting, sloppy big ears pulling. Good news is you didn't panic. Look into a full stall to reset when suck things happen.
Why didn't you hold the glider? You need to fly
more actively especially when you fly so close under clouds, - so you can feal and avoid such collapses.
As a hangglider pilot, these collapses, twists scare the heck out of me.
It looks like to shorten your break lines - please reconfigure this. And the way how you hold your breaks - does not give you any feedback from the cancopy - get used to a half loop break hold. The tension of the break line between your hand will inform you about different pressure in your cancopy - so you can react and start to learn active flying.
Holding the break like in the VID will bring you into more situations like this.
Stay safe!
Thanks for your comments Rene. I'm interested to know why you suggest my brake lines should be shortened?.
Its a typo :-(
"It looks like you shorten your break lines - please reconfigure this"
I meant - if the break lines are too short - it is not easy to do a half loop break handle greb.
Is my explanation better now?
I agree with Rene. It looks your brake lines are quite short. in some parts of the video before the collapse you have your hands quite high, the brake spider seems tense and does not blow back and the trailing edge appears to be pulled a bit down. In the Queen M's (and other wings) I know the brake spider is blown back and the trailing edge free when flying trim. But hard to tell on a video, maybe worth checking.
Also, if I may chip in with the other comments, I would suggest to hold the handles differently for more feedback. Pulling the bottom of the handles with full hands is not optimal to get feedback imho. Some pilots grab the upper part of the handle, or have a ball or bar to grip with thumb and index finger while the pointing finger rests on the line to get a feeling for line tension. You can see this sometimes at Ziad Basil's videos.
Anyway, cheers mate and happy new year!
Why you just didnt pull a left breake to exit?
I think I was afraid if I over reacted I might get more out of shape or maybe wrapped up. If I was you I might have just pulled some left brake, hooked back in to the climb and gone for a distance record…maybe.
@@tobybott hi.don't get me wrong, I'm just preparing for a paragliding course, and I have an old EN-C and en-d glider and my distance record is about one kilometer :)). Ive never been in a situation like this And never higher than 100 meters and never did even 360 turn:). Just want to keep IT Safe after course. Your glider Is EN-c? I ll shit myself in situation like this! All i know Is a theory. I was just corious why Its So hard to exit,but fear Plays a Big role in IT thats for sure.and this makes me sure i wanna know how to exit a spiral/sat and how to stall a glider because of cravate at the really first stage off my flying. Thx for sharing a video And your answer! Have a nice day And Flights.
@@milanmilan7879 Sorry my reply was defensive. Stay clear of a C glider until you’ve flown a while.
glad it worked out. you should do some (more?) SIV clinics
Flying under that big cloud. Your lucky it didn't suck you up 15,000 feet
Fair weather clouds, they weren't that big.
that's a big ass dark cloud .woow the struggle is real ! Nicely done! Epic save !
How to ruin perfect thermal and transition... Pity...
thx for uploading!
Yes, we saw what happened. Good thing you didn't throw the reserve. But you did lost a lot of height. I am curious, why didn't you go to full stall? Actually, you did not do much of anything. Why?
+Aleksandar Panov Thanks for your comment. With the glider out in front of me, I was focussed on clearing the cravat. Outside the view from camera lens I was trying to get hold of and pull on the stabilo line. It took some time to isolate the line and pulling on it had little effect.
Thank you. Now it's clear. Stay safe.
Well that is one way to get out of being hoovered by a cunimbi hehe. Not my preferred method though. Glad you are ok brother.
So much lack of humility in many comments by self-proclaimed "experienced" pilots (who, btw, die more often than beginners). The day you'll be in deep shit you'll learn to tone down a bit.
And by the way, all of you guys' english is much worse than this pilot's flying skills. You may not need to go back to the flying school, but to the elementary one.
but he fly ah glider mutch over his Level... Looks like rly pasiv Pilot... he dont stop Rotation... and he dont try too open right side with stabi line... i say he fuckt up
Matze must be really dumb lol
during the spiral, couldnt he just appply some left brake to exit it?
drama queen
he could, all is about to never let the wings get speed
possibly, but it certainly won't stop the spiral in itself, and the risk is to stall the left side of the wing by braking to much. But yes, put as much weight as possible to the left and slowly apply brake. If nothing works, stall the wing to "reset". That's the theory
wow man...well done keeping your cool there. that looks pretty scary.
Thanks for sharing video - as a novice fellow pilot I appreciate any good and bad experiences for learning - to all the critical pilots you have short memories - it's not about making ourselves feel good
I thought pilot was unconscious .
Full speed bar would have been better then this crazy ride
FULL STALL PLZZZ, Maybe you were blacked out?
No he doesn't know how to do it. 🤣
No need for full stall on an EN-A If you stop the auto rotation the cravate should be easy to clear.
@@TheGrundigg jupp, stalling a glider in rotation ist not recommendet 🙂 - simpel counterstearing! Then clearing
Holy cow... good to know that ya fine... such clouds are sucking that an usual pilot is far beyond its skills... by taking a savety course you can get to know the "reset button" of the glider by pulling a full stall... first you will fly a full stall as a dare, later you will love doing flybacks as an ace card to recover a colapsed glider
Well, what finally fixed it WAS a stall ... but it didn't look like it was intentional.
This dude should have stalled the wing as soon as the big cravat started, before entering an almost uncontrollable autorotation.
Stalls are easy to recover from.
albertobarpao I was wondering that. Is it okay to stall when you have a big cravat like that? Then the cravat will probably come out?
@@Yourbosskid Yes of course, its much easier to come out of a stall than an autorotation. Controlled stalls are the way to reset the glider when things go bad.
Hey albertobarpao,
The rotation wasn't really near uncontrollable, it was just uncontrolled. This dude didn't know any better than trying to pull the cravat out with his stabilo before anything else.
T
El piloto era muy frío de sangre, pero no vio una reacción muy activa.
And at 4:00, starts going up to do it all again 😎
Ahah lot of well done for that ???? Seriously no control just lucky guy don’t be proud of that it’s a really bad exemple
The autorotation spiral caused by large cravat may be varying dynamics between 2-3 G spiral like this allowing you time to stuff around with lines or it may be SAT in which case it can be rather disorientating for the uninitiated and initiated alike or it can be more extreme particularly on acro wings and throw you into the wing and lines. So. Don’t tolerate autorotation. Deploy early or backfly instantly. Don’t expect it to be a nice spiral.. it’s not ... and your options are reduced because some deployments will simply NOT WORK well NCR you allow the autorotation to build up rotational moment.
Makes you feel alive and builds carractor and IL bet you flew the next day 😂
How do you get the info on the video? Is it Garmin Virb?
drama queen LMAO
triple seven BTFO
I was waiting to see an actual drama queen shouting haha
yeah this is in my top 5 favorite save videos. epic, ...
600m save well done mate
cravate est égale décrochage ;)
Really glad you got it out before passing out, I was getting dizzy watching. Best to get the wing directly overhead before trying to get the tuck out. All good practice, thankfully you had plenty of height. Thanks for sharing. Catch you on the hill sometime.
That's a pretty high level wing, trying to get it overhead with that much cravat would most likely result in a stall. Which is exactly what happened (3:08). Luckily, that stall fixed his cravat. That's why SIV and learning to Stall is really important for flight safety.
Super ! I like the frame with flight infos on the right side. How do you do that ?
Your can use VirbEdit (for free). You have to import video and a converted cgi file.
thank you for sharing this lesson
what did you do to save it? pull brakes??
how to burn hight? Wow...
Even with big ears, you were still going up at ~2m/s :-o But it looks as if you're more than capable of handling yourself up there.
I love my Atos VQ ;-) One of the reasons I prefer hang gliding now: this kind of stuff pretty much doesn't occur... Glad you're well & safe. Happy landings Toby
Obviously I wasn't there, so I could miss something, hence my question: why did you spiraled on the half of the wing? Was it deliberate, couldnt you stop the rotation and stall the wing to try untangle it? I'm asking honestly, as a fellow 777 paraglider pilot - to learn something, not to troll:)
Thanks Tom,
My focus and attention at that moment was to clear the cravat by pulling in the stabilo line. The wing in rotation was stable and it took time to identify and separate the stabilo from the loose lines. Stabilo didn't help. Cravat came out when I eventually applied brake to the flying side.
Did you realize that you stalled it with the brake on the flying side? If yes, was it intentional or did it just happen?
Which app do you use for information on the right side during the flight ? Thanks for answer
+Petr Krůžela
Garmin VIRB
Spiral wasn't even that bad, kept under 3G. Except for the last "short" one in the different direction.
Well done... I get taught to throw reserve when tangled and spiral starts, but hey!
Korkunç. EN A'dan daha ileri bir kanatla uçmak istemiyorum. 😁
Imagine crashing because you tried to pull ears?!?!
Faut pas aller jouer sous les nuages 😏
Not going to lie, my heart skipped a beat at 1:35
Alexandre F. So did mine!
Il va être temps de faire un siv avant que ça vous arrive a 100m sol 🤔🤔🤔
lol un SVI avec une voile comme a 1:40, ils auraient dit de faire secours
@@jackcarver8234 il aurait surtout appris à engager un decro aux frein et marche arrière plutôt que se faire centrifuger
@@aerovision73 entre autre
@@aerovision73 c'est pas faux !
No es muy frio de sangre, le falta pilotaje... la reacción es lenta.
What are other option to safe your self in such condition..
A knife n other parachute... Aur nothing.. aur it's just one parachute.. that flying with .
Knife to cut the rope n second parachute to open.. in option
He is good pilot n daring n cool mind guy who handle the situation.
Most people carry a reserve-parachute with them, I suppose the pilot in this video still had more than enough space to try to recover the wing.
Ashok, I assume you not a pilot.
At 3:23 you got to 4.9G. That is a lot. I am glad you did not pass out.
What a crappy wing...
SurvivalSquirrel it does look utterly precious doesn't it. Even when it looked like it recovered it really thought about it
Do not be silly. This is not wing made problem.
moments when the earth becomes round )))
.....sei stato veramente fortunato ragazzo...molto fortunato..:-)
👏👏👏👏
I'm glad you're okay.About the incident itself enough has been sad so I won't comment that.
It's a bummer that you didn't add your current vertical speed to the HUD. How much was it before collapse?
Greetings from Germany
Climbs in this thermal had only been 2-3m/s
Vertical speed was not available in HUD
Thanks for posting.
wow great work. i would have thrown my rescue far sooner than that. how you managed to get that mess opened up after 100m is beyond me. very good effort.
Why do you wanna throw the rescue with 3000 m'plus margin 😳😳😳....
Yeah, if u throw the reserve its over, try as far as u can to recover, frontal or reverse etc etc
Reserve for sure if you don't know your G tolerance. Doesn't matter how high you are if you black out and spiral into the ground.
jeas, I only just saw this, nice video Toby. Nice spiral dive, but why give up 1000m, did you see a pub? ;-)
Yeah you probably already assessed your crapy big-ears entry, can't comment on the Queen, but I know on the Artik you don't have to pull them in that violently or large, just pull them uniformly with even pressure till they both break the foil and hold them there, no need to go further, and of cause always stabilise with half bar minimum and then release. All the shit started cause you pulled in one side the second time and released it straight away so the wing shot forward. Try B-line ears instead by using the outer b-lines, but pull one at a time and stabilise. You will find the wing flys much better without massive flapping ears and it achieves the same sink rate, they also pop out straight away with no fuss, but again make sure you stabilise with half bar
+Greg Cable thanks for your comments Greg. I didn't pull a one sided big ear as it seams, but I did head for a pub afterwards!
Nice recovery!! I'm booked in with Godfrey next weekend to do my course, Did you get trained by him?
Excellent video man! I wonder what happened to the other paraglider that was sucked by the cloud? It doesn't matter what other people say! You solved the situation pretty well and without panic. Now you know that you must react before you are sucked by a Cumulus nimbus!
He solved the situation terribly. Basically the situation solved itself, he was lucky he had a lot of altitude. No control over the auto-rotation, no checking the reserve, no control over pitch and roll, flying to the middle of a massive cloud. Flying in conditions too strong for skill level was the first mistake.
A simple thing to do in this situation is to stop the auto-rotation first by flying the non collapsed side. He did not use the left brake at all.
Que M! Ainda bem que tava alto. Paraglider é.muito perigoso.
Holy cow dude! How long have you been flying? Great recovery! Thanks for sharing. I want to get into para gliding.
William Bynum Thanks, I was fortunate. It is a good sport, you will enjoy. I'm flying 2-3 years.
lucky bro that was close! they need to make a cut away system with a reserve parachute
Curtis Pedersen there are Reserve parachutes. but you don't need to cut away
Eine heiße Nummer, alle Achtung.
th-cam.com/video/0t8iicFmk8Q/w-d-xo.html
Am 31.12.2016 schon 20 tsd Klicks
Die Bremsleinen sehen aber verdammt kurz aus....
He was lucky not to pass out..... what was his intention? These were not dangerous clouds....
did you check the g-meter as well before making a comment about "lucky not to pass out".........?
just changed my mind not doing that
You don't want to try paragliding because of this video? If that's it, don't be scared, he is flying a high level wing and he was on speedbar. With a less competitive glider or a ENA this wouldn't happen, he was also flying in heavy condition. Stating paragliding you'll never fly in those conditions.
how many times did you think reserve ?
I was very high and trying to clear the cravat while I had height. Was keeping reserve in reserve for closer to ground and/or unable to re-inflate wing.
Ahora y en tierra todos son expertos 🤔😖
I had my Queen wind up on me this summer after a frontal on full bar that went into a deep stall and cravatted on recovery. I slowed the spiral back into a tracking flight, but it took me undo the cravat that was only slightly less than this one in the deep spiral. (I wouldn't consider the video incident a slow spiral by any means.) Despite pulling a good 2-3 meters of stabilo line on the cravat in nearly to the wingtip, I could not get it to reinflate. Eventually a few good hard pumps on the brake eliminated the cravat. It seems on the Queen, in my limited experience with cravats on it, the brake pump should be the go to action first off.
Thanks for your thoughts on that Richard. I was thinking the stabilo might have been effective without the additional pressure from the wing being in spiral but in your case it made no difference. If I'm in that situation again I wont waste too much time on stabilo.
toby bott I wouldn't totally disregard the stabilo, but it seems the go to should probably be some hard brake pumps initially. My training taught me that pump first and I should have done. However I though the cravat was so far gone stabilo would be the only hope in my case.
How do you ensure that you don't collide with someone below you, when all this is going on?
Good question, there's a lever you can pull that will temporarily take you out of freefall until you're a safe distance below any other gliders.
Good thing no traffic below because reseting the lever takes ages
The speed was way of when falling, is only the horizontal speed measured?
yes, just horizontal. You can see the speed of falling on the elevation.
What kind of camera / vario do you have used? The Hud is pretty cool :)
Well done that you walked away with that one...
+nitramf Thanks. Camera is Garmin Virb Elite. HUD is part of the Virb Edit software.
You can use the software with 3rd party cameras and GPS receivers as well. The software is pretty intuitive in allowing you to sync the GPX file with the video footage.