Is This THE END for Coil Tattoo Machines?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 ต.ค. 2024
- As the authorities looks to legislate tattooing more & more we ask the question, Will Coil tattoo machines make it or will they be legislated out of our hands?
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Coil Tattoo Machines must never die. It is a tool that worked for over 100 years. Why do we give up on stuff that worked for us so well ? Modern coils are not problematic or need constant tuning. Aluminum ones don’t hurt your wrist. They do work much faster. They last lifetime of your career. And let’s not forget slogan for many rotaries. “Hits like a coil”. Then just buy the damn coil.
I can see your point and tattooers are generally traditional folks who like to stick to the old way of doing things... but on the other hand, that's like saying why should we use computer printers when we had the printing press that works fine. At some point you gotta move on if the technology gets good enough to surpass the old. Whether we're at that point or not yet is up to each individual, but I'm sure it'll happen eventually.
hallelujah!
@@BabyJesus66 The traditional artist prefer coils in most cases as you say. Thats true. Including me. I believe there are different tools for different jobs. I wouldn’t want to do a black and gray realism piece with a coil. Rotaries are great for that and fine line. To me. And this is my opinion only. Coils must live on for tradition, for those who still need them, and for those who want to collect them. Ink goes in same way as it always did. It would be sad to see builders like Mike Pike fade away. Never ending debate but always fun to talk about. To each their own but don’t take my tools lol
I hand stencil everything .it's like getting a practice run before the tattoo..I also hand draw most of my tattoos. So when tattooing them it feels like I have muscle memory..thinking of getting an iPad with procreate to speed things up tho..you guys are awesome.keep it up
I hand stencil everything as well
Another great show guys. I remember when you 1st started this show and each video was getting about 100ish or more views.
Now each video is easily getting 1k. I'm sure a stupid amount goes on behind the scenes before and after filming. You guys rock!
I think that coil machines have just a big of a place in modern tattooing as rotary machines. Different strokes for different folks. I hope we all can work together to preserve tattooing, and the industry that we have come to know would love much love and respect guys. I love your podcast. Hope we can talk tattoo machines someday🙏🏼🙏🏼
Just got into the show and loving it. Loyal to the coil !!!
Great video.. i do get my micky sharpz cut back liner out occaisionally and my first one, think it was called a hybrid.. man i loved that thing, its falling apart now, but still holds a llace in my heart.. its part of my journey but feels so heavy on my wrist now 😬
Ive nothing against coils, as both of u rightly said.. ive just got used to the way Rotaries work.. they do everything i need to get done.. efficiently and effectively
👍
Right on
ayy Im not the only one whos crazy enough to try relearn tattooing with the other hand
Would love to learn how to tattoo with my left hand ( in case my right hand fails) my right hand has had part of my fingers removed from an unrelated accident.
I am in the US and it's different from coast to coast. I tattoo because I love it I could tattoo for free if necessary and have. Bottom line is I can do the same job with a $35 coil machine. It's what part of the US you are in really that matters when it comes to overhead! Love the show down to Earth tattooest.
Let's just say Juris translates as Dave on English
Last year i bought a real rotary. I learned basics on a jail house 25 years ago. Bought a liner and shader about 5 years in an just loved the feel and ways to tune for different looks.
I’m just now fully converting back to coil machines
Love love love this show ,and thank you for sharing your time and effort.
In Switzerland, a 4h session will cost you about 1000€. And specifically Geneva where I live, is a very expensive place to live in, more than NYC or San Francisco, for comparison. So I think that's a fair price. And I get that getting everything certified makes the prices go up but personally I think that's necessary since like you said, companies did not do their jobs.
Good Point
9.99k followers looks good
Great show again and great looking merch 🎉
Thank you 🤗
Pleeeaaaase tattoo with the other guys, I will if you guys do lol
This is probably off topic but are there any companies manufacturing ballpoint pen cartridges?
Yes, I’ve seen them and we’re currently trying to get hold of them for a review. I think it’s inkclaw that make them - p
Do yall talk about lining with shaders and liner needles?
All right lads great show/videos quick question,do you autoclave your pen grip after every tattoo or use disposable grips.
Only asks as I know the pen style pens are wrapped up to the hilt but your putting a cartridge back and froth throughout the whole tattoo session?
Cheers lads
Hey, I’ve spoken to the welsh government environmental health department regarding this. The response I got was…
If you barrier your pen machine appropriately, use membrane cartridges then and handle the cartridges correctly then there is no need to autoclave the pen grips. While they need to be visually clean and cleaned with the appropriate detergents etc they don’t need to be autoclaved. The reason for this is due to the only part that needs to be sterile is the piece that makes direct contact with broken skin. In the case of cartridge machines that’s the safety cartridge which is sterile and disposable. The only time you would realistically get contamination inside the grip is if you are handling the cartridges at the wrong place, which in that case I would say it’s better to autoclave and use disposable as well as being more competent in infection prevention and control procedures.
There’s more risk of contamination with artists tattooing while wearing watches, bracelets and long sleeve tops tbh.
Tattooing as a procedure is clinically clean at best.
@@ThatTattooShow cheers mate was just curious about the whole end of the coil part in the video,think it’s different in every county to be honest
Thanks for the reply
Any way I can support this channel and what this channel is trying to achieve, I will do to the best of my abilities. There is simply too much quality information discussed here not to get involved somehow to spread to others. Especially for others in my position, being new to tattoo and not knowing the intricacies of the business and community. I'm off to purchase a few shirts to spread the good word guys. I'll wear them while I tattoo and hope to have many good conversations with delighted patrons about that tattoo show.
Thankyou! 🙏👍
Merci! Another great video!
As a rather new tattoo artist I'm not sure if I am really happy with the notion that tattoo machine might become overly regulated as medical devices.... In Québec we have free healthcare which is awesome but it is so F upped as paperwork and delays and burocracy and politics which is not good. I feel that tattooing will become overly complicated the same way that it won't be "fun". I do think it'll will go back underground to be affordable to the masses. A tiny tattoo is already 100$ + at most tattoo shops. On the other hand, the inflation right now here has already made an impact that big names tattoo artist that charge a efty price have a lot of openings that they didn't before covid-19 making them do "specials" and "sales".
Weird times...
add to that full fledged medical regulations ( I.e. as plastic surgeons, dentists and stuff) I don't know if that's a "good" thing...
Anyways what do I know, I haven't been in this industry long enough
Can't wait for part 2!
Thankyou!
Thank you ❤️👊🏻
You're welcome 😊
Bought my first pen machine of the back of Chris’ review of the Rotary Works Pen 2 and have to say it hasn’t disappointed at all… the price is so reasonable for the quality of the build… as long as the tattoo you create is what you, and more importantly the customer desired, use whatever works for you… agree with Chris though, can see the coils becoming lost to legislation in years to come
🤘awesome show as usual guys
Your right arm sleve is so good Paul I wanna see it better man , it looks like abalone in the black in places . I kinda wanna copy it a bit , please do a tattoo tour of yourself !!! Im in Australia cheers.
My daughter Beth made as a part of her apprenticeship when she was only 14! 🙏👍
wow she must have turned out to be a great artist congrats .@@ThatTattooShow
I doubt that reasoning for the machine prices. Most US artists I know are making $300-600 per day. I think the crazy machine prices are due to the battery being in most machines now. That and they realized they can make even more to make each machine a single stroke length. Can't have consumers getting all they need from one machine.
I absolutely agree with the point about multiple machines .. I saw a few videos recently on the Mast Tour Pro.. I dont own one and doubt i will.. but what I noted is the machine has a switch/button to change the stroke length (2.4, 2.8, 3.2 etc, up to 4.2) on the fly..
So.. it can be done.. they're selling these machines at £250-ish.. so it cab be done reasonably easy I'm guessing at not a great cost to the manufacturer.
So the high end suppliers 'could' provide this functionality
The first one who takes the plunge will make a nice pay check.. but.. then they cant sell multiple machines to us as that stroke change functionality would become expected 🙄😏
Machine builders should have given the info on how
To calibrate and replace springs .. now it’s too late fam 😅…
What is the name of the interview?
I work in the US in Virginia Beach, Virginia and I charge $150 an hour for session work and by the piece for smaller tattoos most tattooers I know charge between $100 to $200 an hour and most tattoo shops either offer a percentage or booth rent the shop I currently work at I pay $600 a week and booth rent myself and still make good money
600 a week for booth rent? That should be the monthly price
@@Tattitootdepends on the shop....... Sounds likevhis boss runs a tight ship..... Way should be
I believe there will never be an end to any type of tattoo machine and there is no reason for one. Just because a new technology appears doesn't mean another must disappear.
At the moment a well tuned coil machine with a nice tube and needle in the right hands is still considered the best in tools in tattooing and is often referred to as a benchmark of performance. The only argument against it mostly being inability or unwillingness to learn tuning. Or the weight and sound difference. However the heavier weight and sound are actually advantages if properly understood.
Like most things in our modern culture convenience is often preferred over quality and longevity.
That being said understand completely that in certain situations such as traveling that carrying less equipment can be nice.
On the topic of machine pricing please consider the cost for producing the machines more closely
-Research Development ( Continual )
-Materials ( shipping cost, Taxes, sourcing)
-Production ( Outsourcing, Machining cost, tooling, electricity , rent, equipment, labor, Material loss (quality control)
-Employee ( HR, Social Security payments, Payroll, Sick leave. etc)
-Insurances
-Marketing (Online Presence, Printed, Conventions, Sponsorships, Packaging)
-Distribution ( Wholesale discount given to distributors)
-Return and Repair costs ( Warranty)
Technology isn’t the danger that faces our beloved coils. Legislation is. If it can’t be produced to new medical ‘standards’ it could be legislated out of the industry.
Whilst I understand that there are many costs in manufacture that we tattooers don’t I still think that any business should start from a pricepoint and build a solid business plan based on these costs rather than pass the costs as they arises over to the end consumer.
Legislation has in the past and is still banning tattooing. (New York and other parts of the US east coast, Japan still is a legal grey area) It survived and some say it made it even stronger. With the truly dedicated going underground and continuing to tattoo.
A business is defined as an agreement with mutual benefit. If the machine companies pay all the cost and cannot make a profit to survive or make it attractive to keep the business going, then the owners will have no interest in keeping it open. Honestly also even a lower earning tattooer can most likely save enough money to buy even the most expensive machine on the market within 1-2 months. Compared with most other industries tattoo equipment is still quite affordable. (example lower end professional guitars start in the 1000-2000 range and go up easily to close 5000-10000).
There are business out there that do just that in they set a price point and build the machine according to that. (cheap eBay machines) You can't unfortunately have it both ways. Just like we say a cheap tattoo is not good and a good tattoo is not cheap.
@@ThatTattooShow
Stealth rotory machine has Japanese motor
MINOR SETBACK FOR A MAJOR COMEBACK.
On holiday in Crete with terrible Wi-Fi so I only picked up on part of this , but how can you classify a tattoo machine as “ medical “ ? At best it’s cosmetic. What is the definition of medical ?
Hope you are enjoying your holiday. That is an interesting question and we will look into it to provide some sort of an answer
@@ThatTattooShow certainly am 😂 and thanks for the reply 👌🏼
Actually that was the past,bud. Think about what you just said. That’s exactly how things were done just a couple of decades ago.
Exactly. the past offers a better future than the current present offers. Reusable works. It’s proven and it’s eco locally sound.
So why is everything disposable now? Simple. Profit & convenience.
didnt watch the video yet but commenting on the question of regulating coil machines out of use. coil machines are much cleaner than the rotary pens and cartridge setups people are using these days. i have honestly wondered how long will it be before rotary pens where regulated out if anything. when it comes to contaminated tools they are either clean or they are contaminated there is no in between, and most pens are not cleaned properly between clients and everyone with a clue knows it.
i say this as a long time supporter of "underground" tattooing, and a believer that tattooing should be open to any artist that wants to do it without all the legal hoops and BS they want people to jump thru to do it. sadly the world of tattooing has been flooded with new "instagram artist" types that are completely clueless and ignorant when it comes to tattooing safely or proper technique( and have no desire to learn )
i have been a fan of rotary machines from the start of my tattooing, around 15 years or so now, but there is a big difference between using rotary machines along with coil machines because you understand the pros and cons of each, vs just being too stupid to use a coil machine and not understanding your tools enough to know why you would choose one or the other for certain things.
While I agree with a lot of what you are saying. The one thing I completely disagree on is that coil machines are cleaner.
I’ve spoken to an infection control specialist and they have said the only way to truly clean a coil machine is to strip it down between usages. Which to a degree is correct.
Also coil machines that have more of a material wrap on the coils poses a massive issue regarding cross contamination and the inability to clean it adequately.
Even if you bag a coil machine the will be airborn pathogens going up the tube and back stem, flooding the inside of the back and covering the machine with bacteria.
From an ease of cleaning standpoint a rotary would be better depending on the type used.
And if you are following the correct IPC protocols a rotary pen used with membrane carts is far easier to keep clean.
I stripped down a flux recently that has been used pretty much daily and the internals of that was pristine. No ink residue, no grime, no dust.
However I’m pretty sure if you looked at a coil machine that had been used daily the you would see signs of dirt in hard to reach areas, unless you are completely stripping it down after each use and disinfecting then whole frame and parts that go along with it.
@@ThatTattooShow
when using carts you can NOT rely on the cart membrane to keep your machine from being contaminated, they can and do fail and its not exactly rare for it to happen, especially with longer stroke machines. this is a big issue i see with carts, people just trust they are clean and dont disinfect their machine properly between clients.
think of this scenario
1. you are tattooing a client
2. you (as everyone does) swap between carts, exposing the plunger end to a contaminated environment or without thinking about it you touch the plunger end, either way the cart is now contaminated.
3. you swap again, sticking your now contaminated cart back into the machine.
the machine is now contaminated even if it looks perfectly clean inside, the inside of the grip and the plunger bar inside the machine ( thats usually covered in grease that holds bacteria ) is contaminated.
now you do the same thing for your next client, you stick a cart into a contaminated machine you think is clean, you swap between carts and easily contaminate your gloves that you are now touching your clients open skin with.
its that easy to infect someone without ever thinking about it.
the cool thing about using cartridges is that you can swap them out easily while tattooing, the dangerous part about cartridges is that you can swap them out while tattooing.
you MUST break the machine down and completely disinfect the grip and the internal plunger bar between clients every time.
nothing wrong with using them but its very easy to create a cross contamination hazard of a machine without realizing it.
using a coil machine with a traditional needle on bar setup doesnt have this risk, you set the machine up how its going to be used and thats it.
the safest setup for tattooing is using a coil machine or traditional rotary with disposable tube/grip and regular needle on bar.
the risk of contaminates traveling up the tube and getting on the machine and then somehow traveling back down the tube and contaminating it for your next client is pretty much non existent, you wipe the machine down anyways.
the real risk that infects people is cross contamination with your gloves and then spreading that to your client, thats much easier to do and more likely to happen with a pen machine that you are swapping carts on, especially if people are not breaking the pen down and cleaning it with something like cavicide between tattoos.
What about when people are not bagging the coil machines? Playing the the vice to change needle hang? Or adjusting the contact screw? Or what about the airborne pathogens that go up the back stem and contaminate the machine that’s bagged?
There are risks with everything and when it comes to tattooing a lot of it is down to user error, not following correct IPC procedure.
So realistically you should be also stripping down a coil machine to clean it just like you say it needs to be done for a pen machine.
I’ve seen some shocking stuff at shows in regards to the way people handle coil machines that are un bagged. That respect there’s more risk of contamination with a coil.
That being said you also have people wearing denim aprons and doing multiple tattoos in a day with the same apron.
People not using the correct work surfaces to tattoo off,
Wearing watching and other jewellery when tattooing,
People with false nails when tattooing,
There’s a lot of things that cause cross contamination and it’s generally down to people not educated on IPC and not following the correct procedures for when they tattoo.
The material that the machine is made of and the labor of the actual machine should dictate the price not what the artist is capable don't cut the artist for his skill and years of devotion just because they think they can charge a butt load for their machines.
Totally agree.
your incorrect, you are reusing the internal components of a pen on every person. The membrane has failed on several types of carts. I bet you that contaminated machine wasn’t thrown out because it could never be sterilized internally. Not to mention the microscopic contamination from every tattoo . They should be disposable and that’s the future. Period
So more single use plastic into landfill then?
For Every item we use there was/is/could be an ecologically sound version.
Operating theatres reuse cleaned, previously contaminated items all the time. Sometimes without autoclaving them (try getting a rib spreader in a clave!)
What we should be doing is thoroughly cleaning and inspecting our equipment and, if we don’t feel it’s possible to fully clean, we should be using cleanable, reusable items whenever possible.
Reusable not disposable. That’s actually the future. Full stop.
Western europe is not cheaper than the us, also a factory get better prices than a small operation, check your facts
Smaller operations have less over heads in comparison to larger factories such as, rent, amount of employees, electric, gas, insurance, maintenance, pensions, sick pay, holiday pay etc etc. also not all of Western Europe is as expensive as the us, we also didn’t say Western Europe we said europe which is a larger area to cover with a wider price range. Facts checked ;)