How Armenians became White in America
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ก.ย. 2024
- #ancestry #findingyourroots #ancestrydna #dnatest #armenia #armenians #familyhistory #genealogy
Finding your roots? The story of Tatos Cartozian encapsulates the complex journey of Armenian-Americans in their pursuit of belonging within American society. Following a groundbreaking legal case in the early 20th century, Cartozian and his community were granted recognition as white, after initially being challenged by the US Governement. Cartozian's experience epitomizes the delicate balance between assimilation and cultural preservation that defined Armenian-Americans' quest for acceptance. Their story serves as a poignant reminder of the multifaceted nature of racial identity and the struggles faced by immigrant communities in their search for a place to call home. Who counts as "white" ?
SOURCES AND REFERENCES:
www.cambridge....
In re Halladjian et al, 174 F. 834 at 835 (1909).
"Citizenship for Armenians - Circuit Court Declines to Bar Them on Government's Plea" (PDF). The New York Times. 24 December 1909.
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armenianweekly...
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law.justia.com...
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The Limits of Whiteness: Iranian Americans and the Everyday Politics of Race by Neda Maghbouleh.
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#ESO - #EuroSquatterOffspring is a FAR more accurate usage of adjectives for the notsorry genocider demographic. ;-) thanks for this.... further proof of the open manner in which Euro Supremacy has operated with impunity!
Oh and "swarthy" was one of the passive supremacy words used to divide melanated ppl w/in the socalledwhite demographic.
This was part of the Eugenics movement. Pseudo-Dr. Charles Darwin and his 'think-alike" friends from Academia, supported his theory as "Science". This was implemented in Universities of higher learning, like Harvard, Duke, Princeton, etc. Also, it was received with open arms by the racist government at the time... In other words, they wanted to show in-paper, that "whites" are the majority... up till today. We know, it's not true. The majority of so-called "whites" are the result of "mixed-race" among "blacks and whites", "mulattos and mulattos" and so on... Result? Mulattos. Those who are lighter in complexion ("white passing") are now "whites"... On paper... "Black and White" is a System, not race!
I had heard about this from an Armenian American friend’s Grandfather many years ago. It’s always shocking how coveted the concept of being “white” is to “white” people. It must be oddly life changing to go from not
looking “white” enough to be considered as “white” to one day to being legally granted “white” citizenship without the actual acceptance. No thanks!
Can you make a video how Mexicans sued to become legally white also? Great video!
Thank you for consistently showing that whiteness is not an ethnicity but a legal designation for the purposes of creating a caste system based on ethnicity.
I want to talk about “casta” soon, someone else mentioned this, too! The Spanish brought that over here
Armenians speak a indo-european language. furthermore, they are indigenous to Anatolia.
Weird "caste system" when all the lawsuits are people trying NOT to be classified as white in order to get affirmative action and other freebies
So true! The economy economy and indeed, political system, can't survive without the caste system. Most importantly to keep us divided and fighting each other, rather than concentrating on those who are oppressing people as a whole.
This is an exception but they did designate a rich black girl as white, I think it was in Oklahoma, because her land had oil so they could control her wealth.
What is most silly about this court case is that the Armenians are literally from a country that is located in the Caucasus mountains.
I believe it is the proximity to the Arab realm that caused the concern. Much like Italians from the north of Italy were never scrutinized by US customs but Sicilianos got the bums rush. Sicily was too close to Africa in the minds of northern Europeans.
@@starventure I think you make a great point here.
Armenian highlands*
Exactly. The source of the word "Caucasian".
@@starventure I think the concern about Sicilians was the mafia
The most absurd case of race classification is that of Egyptian immigrant Mostafa Hefny. Although his physical appearance strongly resembles many black Americans and he identifies as black, the US government classified him as white and refuses to reverse this decision. Mr. Hefny has taken legal action against the government for denying him his true identity. It's crazy.
Yeah, because their numbers is extremely low, so they have to classify some black people as White, and they need that melanin for survival. Their are a lot more so called White Americans that have Black ancestry, than they will let you know.
He's Egyptian but he looks black? Hmmmm
As much as many want to deny it, Egypt and Morroco are African
I have got to read up on this!! Thanks
These classifications are meaningless. Just saw a picture of Mostafa Hefny and I am confused. I will read up on this case. Thanks for highlighting it.
Thank you for talking about the Armenian Genocide. Not many people know about this 🇦🇲
Or they won’t call it a genocide! 😌
it's all Armenian people talk about... of course we know about it lol
Armenian genocide just another bullshit, million of Turks killed bye Armenian Terrorists
It never happened as Armenians imagined it. Armenians are not innocent people as well. They engaged in ethnocide campaigns against Turkish people. Today, Armenians espouse neoNazi ideology and white Americans are using them as pawns to enact their racist policies as Armenians are becoming more engaged in inflating rent and housing due to their manipulative schemes and banking as they are now making decisions to give mortgage, car, and business loan to people, often stifling other minorities. They give to their own only and give high loans without credit; hence why Armenians in large numbers are purchasing homes and raising their prices. Today, Armenians are virulently, xenophobic thugs who are harassing other minorities Armenians are not innocent. Walk into an Armenian neighborhood, you will meet with Armenian mafia.
@@nytn Armenians are not innocent. See their behavior in Los Angeles and you will see why. Study history and you will see that the Turks were under attack by everybody. Armenians sought to steal land from Turks and also engaged in ethnic cleansing campaigns against Turks with the assistance with the allies. They are not the meek, Christian people you think they are, rather this is just a smear campaign to get a UN tax under the expense of Californian taxpayer.
I met a Armenian man who was working in the south bronx back in 1990s and he shared with me that he Armenian but he was passing a Puerto Rican in order to blend into the community.
Wow!
Very telling that Armenians can’t be white if they can pass for Puerto Rican who are known to be a mix race group.
"White" is a totally BS category used by racists to put other groups down. Armenia is technically located in the region where Europe blends into western Asia and physically Armenians share many traits with other groups from south-eastern Europe and Asia Minor. Last time I was in Puerto Rico, the people I met ranged in appearance from African to light-skinned European in appearance. And everyone seemed to get along. What a great idea!!!
@@davruck1 - Not according to science, DNA, and genetics.
Its because he was facing racial discrimination and was sick of being harassed.
Thank you for doing this video! As an Armenian American I didn’t know about the Portland trial and it’s a trip to think that we had to go through the courts… I think even to this day I don’t entirely consider myself “white” even though I am because my father is English. I’ve always said I’m “Caucasian” or a real one rather 😂😂😂. I saw your video on the Italian American experience and was excited that you did on the Armenians. Keep it up!
When you get into the details of race you realize how absurd the idea of race is.
"race" is for crazy people who have too much time on their hands
Thank the inventors of race classification/racism for that contribution or shall I say confusion.😢
but it's real and it's called genetics
@@davidg1594 its incredibly arbitrary, human races aren't actual groups within the animal classification system.
Race is a reality when DNA testing can break down ancestry by race snd ethnicity. It might make you feel better to deny reality for political and personal reasons but people who deny reality right in front of them shouldn’t be taken seriously by anyone.
While in the Army, I was interviewing a young Air Force Captain for a position on my staff. He presented a very fine appearance and was very articulate during the interview. He had a Hispanic middle name and I was required to ask if he was claiming minority status based on his heritage. His response was one for the ages! He said, Colonel, today the Air Force says I am Black, but a month ago I was considered Asian! They classify me based on the metrics they need. He added, my Father is Black and English and my Mother is Spanish, Chinese, and Phillipino! I asked what he wanted me to put down on the interview form? He smiled and said, "Human." I hired him on the spot!
Love your fascinating videos. As an American, of a very rich ethnic mix which includes African, Middle Eastern, Iberian and Italian heritage, I am baffled by US idiocy! The ignorance of the average American regarding world history, language, and geography is astounding! Armenians are one of the most ancient nations on Earth! They are descendants of a people who became Christians when northern Europeans were praying to rocks and sacrificing people in bogs!! In the US, the racial term Caucasian is used to refer to members of the "white race." Meanwhile, the Armenians are more Caucasian than all of Europe!!
Lol yes as an immigrant in America myself, their level of ignorance makes you wonder how they deserve to be the most powerful nation in the world
I don’t think we have held that title in reality for a long time
@@nytn America is unfortunately still the richest country in the world and has the largest military with the most military bases worldwide. I wish it wasn't so , but it unfortunately is.
The term Caucasian came from the thought that Indo European languages originated there, (which includes Armenian and English) before that view shifted to the Eurasian Steppe.
@carlosacta8726
They wasn’t using the word Caucasian back than as a classification. You’re over looking the fact that here in the US, an English speaking nation, “white” & “black” are caste system identifiers based on what you can pass for.
Thanks NYTN! Appreciate your sharing of the story of my family in such a balanced, thoughtful and comprehensive manner.
Oh my gosh, thank YOU. I am seeing your user name and had to look twice! These stories matter so much, I hope this video reaches far and wide.
i hope u really know what we Armenians are. Ur grandfather only used American delusion of race to create a stable life for him and his family. Not because this is really what he believed.
@@hayots_lernashkharh Thanks. I’m well aware of race as a social construct. Tatos challenged the federal court not only to retain citizenship but also to allow other Armenians to immigrate to America at that time when they were prevented from doing so.
Would you be interested in doing a follow up zoom video with me? Id love to talk a bit more about your family story if you are interested! E-mail me at howdy@nytonashville.com :)
Well, they’ve made up for that. Come to Glendale, California and the Foothills. They’ve taken over the whole City as “Refugees.” I feel if you come to this country, you should work hard and not just play the system or commit fraud. FACTS
A very good audio/video. I do know mainly, that the crux of America is Anti-Black racism and control, so "white" is a politically made artificially made privilege of who gets 'rights' and economic mobility and protection from the authorities such as lower echelons like the police. In my time, we watched as the Irish were made from the vilified group to a collective that were granted 'white' privileges and protections to being the shock troops and those that practiced Anti-Black pushback backed by the authorities like the Irish policemen used to 'control' their old allies. This government is what designates who is what and what to 'give'...Or not to whom in what collective group. Now Arabs and Syrians and others can be considered now newly minted "Caucasians".
It is just an Americanized version of a 'caste' system based on this hierarchy of who gets what and who gets the worst version of America, and the mobility and protection and exceptions here in the United States. Peace
It really is that simple and something that has been fully examined by afro Americans and others. If ppl would simply listen to blk voices where would we be today? Instead these same talking points run in 10 year loops as ppl pretend to just become aware as a whole population screams about this VERY thing daily. It has been very interesting to observe humans and their ingrained biases as they claim to be unbiased.
@@citizencoy4393 Yes you are right and there have been Black/Afro-American voices for 150 years, but they do not listen to us, and them as long as the power balance is theirs, as they do not have to take into consideration of Black people's rights and upward mobility and the real problem or 'Elephant' in the room is that graphic fear and paranoia to what was done to Black people would be done them...If Blacks and others had the same power base and legislation. Fear and a lack of power and privilege are what drive the numerical Caucasian/European population base.
The United States is driven by fear of retribution and revenge against the very same "Americans" who want to be a part of this country, and contributed to it, but are always treated as lesser humans and vilified and even killed in the name of 'Caucasian Supremacy.'
When this is ended...Then look for and towards Justice and Equality and Economic mobility and the "American Dream" fulfilled. Peace
Well said, totally agree.!!!
@@citizencoy4393- No… Seriously. I was listening to her well-researched think piece and thought to myself… Black folk have been knowing this for GENERATIONS. Race being a social construct steeped in WS is not news.
Anti Black is the One Drop Rule. That's Anti Black. Saying Black People can come in all Shades. You American's are racist for that. Shes just mad cause she can't be White. Shes. A Mixed Race Women who can't be White.
I am Armenian . Personally, if someone will tell me that I am a '''White Person'' or ''People of Color'', I would feel offended. I am not a color - but a ''Human Being''. When I speak with people from different countries, I do not see them as a color - and I do not wish that someone decides for me in which ''color category'' I belong depending on her/his personal criteria.
Im not white, nor black, or wtvr else people like to make up. i am ARMENIAN and that's final. race is fake, ethnicity is valid, it is backed by science and genetics.
Oh get over it. Every one knows the term color isn’t literal.
Armenians are never white!
барев дзес, ахперес, инч кузыс?
I'm white. In a totally non racist
Tone , I have to say, Armenians are not recognized as white by white people. And thats ok
Its a shame that the American system forced us Armenians to abandon our true identity, culture, and history just because we were segregated due to where we came from.
No offense but most Armenians I've met are olive brown in color with dark hair, and with facial features that are similar to other West Asians (such as Anatolian Turks, Iranians, Kurds) and Caucasians (e.g. Georgians, Azerbaijanis). Some even looked Afghan or Pakistani or NorthWest Indian.
When I think of white, I think of North or Northwest European, such as the Anglo-Celtic, Germanic-Scandinavian, and Northern Slavic people.
Yeah we look like West Asians, cause we are from there. You talk as if being from there is a disgrace lol. The world does not share the same fetish Americans have with race.
armenians are people with persian, and indian roots who obliged to mix up with greeks, assyrians, georgians, kurds, arabs and turks
Armenians are an Aryan race. It's in the name. Our original features are white with blonde hair and blue eyes. There is a a region in Armenia called Areni. Archeologists discovered caves 6-8 thousand years old, which prooved that Armenian genome was orginally white. We have ethnic Armenian group . They are called Hamshen Armenians. There are considered the pure Armenians, white with blue eyes. The reason why you met so many different color Armenians, because they come from different countries. Most Armenians that come from middle east are going to be darker, because of the climate.
@@uloyanfinally someone with knowledge. I'm armenian and I have pale skin apart from my tanned skin I sometimes skin, and have blue eyes. My dad and brother have the same features I just mentioned, my mom has pale skin as well but with brown eyes instead. Most ignorant people would just say my family is albino.
@@wugarmamedov5457it’s you mankey Azeri !
Thank you for the video.
What has happened to Armenians and their history is that because of the consent given by the West the Genocide was committed which reduced the power of Armenians. Because of the lack of power and influence, Armenians have suffered a lot, they were overlooked, mistreated and lost their Western culture, history, language, wealth, etc. mercilessly.
This video is a huge contribution to the intentionally ignored and closed gap.
I agree, when I started researching this, I was shocked at the gap of information. I believe it is intentional
@@nytn Yep, it is intentional though we cannot prove and are kept silent under "conspirancy theorists". turkey, on the one hand, is actively engaged in demolishing the existing documentation in different countries, Armenia, on the other hand, cannot financially invest in much high-quality research, and both together left out any mention about Armenians and their long-lasting history before and after Genocide uncovered and mis-represented.
Thank you, Danille❤️ You are helping us Armenian a lot.
Thank you for that. I hope to dig into more in the future. Unless I get cancelled first ;)
The thing about trying to be white is that people actually would avoid being in the sun in order to look as pale as possible. In many parts of the world, they still do. Not because you might think they’re white, but because being as close to whiteness as possible is seen as positive, while being darker is seen as negative. I had an Asian friend who said if she got any sun one summer and then went to visit her family the next year, people would comment that she looked darker, so she’d only spend time in the sun if she knew she wouldn’t be visiting her family. When I was in Panama, they thought it was absurd that I wanted to tan instead of using a parasol. For people trying to pass as white back in the day, this was one of the things they had to constantly watch out for. You hear stories about people saying their relative who was passing would always wear a hat and sunscreen and never stand out in the sun.
My family had this exact story. I shared it in the “Finding Lola” docuseries on my channel. My moms gram would never go in the sun. 😌
The Filipinos and Vietnamese do the same thing with parasols in the sun. My wife is Nigerian so a parasol just keeps off the heat but is of no effect on her skin tone which is as jet black as you can get. My Mexican mother is fair skinned with auburn hair; she always avoided the sun as do most other upper-class Mexicans. (People up in the North have no idea how racially stratified Mexico is.)
@@marcellocolona4980Mexico isn’t as bad as it use to be but yes colorism exists in practically every Latin American country….
My family is from Los Altos de Jalisco and its the most white area in Mexico….I do see the older generation was different but the new generation of girls and boys don’t care about turning dark lol
@@calidawg510 My mother’s family is from Sonora. The family still owns some property outside of Hermosillo. Her family goes back centuries and are of Basque ethnicity. Until she opens her mouth and speaks, you could easily mistake her for Irish or British. My father’s family is southern Italian (Sicilian and Calabrese) and German-French (from Bavaria and Alsace), but we all look more Middle Eastern than anything else. In the end, skin colour is probably the most superficial, meaningless difference among peoples.
True white ppl welcome the sun!!
1:30 It's interesting that the Irish and Italians had that in common, and as an Irish person who has family married to Italians, it makes me understand America better.
Dont forget Eastern Europeans too
As a Centraleurpoan , I don`t understand this concept
Irish and Italians are Catholics a hated faith in early USA
What in common? Irish and Italians never had to go to court to be recognised as white if that is what you mean. People should research history. Irish and Italians were always legally white.
@@jackieblue1267clearly you didn't watch the video
I have never heard about this! - even in my Armenian-American culture classes at University and in my own independent research. Thank you so much! To clarify, 99.9% of Armenian-Americans will not call themselves "white." We don't have the language for it - we define people by their ethnicity. It only exists when we are speaking English and we know its stupid. We call ourselves "Armenian." In the east coast, "Armenian-American" is often used more. Because culturally we are trying to survive, words like "white" erases who we are. That is the reason we don't use it. For actual skin color, Armenian range from fair to tan skin. We don't all look the same. Because of ignorance, we often get mislabeled for something entirely different. My mother gets things like "German, Dutch, Russian" and my dad gets things like "Indian." We don't have a superiority system where we believe one is better than another. We have songs both about beautiful blue eyes and beautiful black eyes. Also, thank you for mentioning the Armenian Genocide. I can see it pissed off a lot of people in the comments, which means you are doing your job!
This added so much to the conversation, thank you so much!
@@nytnThank YOU ❤
LOVED your reply!!!
My mother was the principal of the only Armenian high school for girl in Isfahan (Ispahan) - I have close ties with Armenians since childhood my first love was Armenian (Meghedy). One of the only ancient cultures that I like a lot! And the Turks did certainly cause a genocide. Long live Armenia!
Well said! I could not have said it better. I always have a problem choosing my race when asked for an application. Am I white? I know I am not black, or hispanic, Asian, Latino or whatever else. Which box I check? So stupid. I always pick white, but only because that is the closest description of my race. I just want to be an Armenian American, and that should be enough.
I am half-Armenian, but I do speak the language enough to get around, and I am active in the community. To support your points about race: if you go to Armenia, you'll see a huge range of "colors": from people who would clearly read as Northern European in the USA to others whom might read as Arab, Central Asian, or South Asian. My grandmother's family escaped the last massacre in Smyrna (1922) because they were very fair,, spoke French and passed as European. They escaped on a French gunboat. You might take note of the racist quotas of 1924, which quashed immigration from the Middle East and Anatolia. (My grandmother's family Russified their name and passed as White Russian.)
Very interesting story bro. My family came after the soviet union collapsed so its always interesting for me to hear about Armenians that have been here since right after the genocide.
Puahahahaha you Armenians are so delusional, nobody thought you were white European, and wtf is white anyway you psychopaths. You were expelled from turkey because of conspiracy.
I never knew that this ever happened, but you are right that this is dangerous and I’m so glad that people are standing up to the truth and not just following whatever the government has to say.
Thanks for speaking about us. When Armenians first immigrated to the US, they mainly lived in Fresno California. Armenians were not treated fiarly, and different slurs were used against us, including the N word. It was so bad, that local land owners refused to sell that properties to Armenians, even at much higher prices. And lets not forget, these were the genocide survivors from 1915. Americans were absolutely horrible people to most non-whites.
Goodness, how come are Armenians non-white?
@lilitmeshchyan4770 alot of us can pass as Arabs, therfore we would be closer to brown people than white.
@lilitmeshchyan4770 also another thing is personality, Armenians are very hot blooded, unlike most white people who are more passive.
@@lilitmeshchyan4770We are not white, and this is reality. We arent a European people, and in modern societal standards we arent White. Back in history we werent white, but only for a small period of time on paper were we considered to be “white” only for social benefits, which armenians were excluded from due to racism against our people.
Yes, the Black/White political classification, that America uses, totally erases a person’s true identity & culture. The curse of the colonizers. Awesome video. 😊
❤💯
America colonized the Native Americans, not those people that immigrated here,
its not a political classification, its social. Created by the slave owners to meet their social needs back in the 17 century
@@djredc ❤️❤️❤️
I was going to give a thumbs up till the “colonizer” comment. All that does is point at one people for what had been a worldwide phenomenon of conquest and subjugatíon of others. Something that has happened going back tens of thousands of years across the globe (and something all races are guilty of).
We are not White. I'm was born in the United States I'm an Armenian women and Not White. I know my families history and how my Nana at age 6 yrs old survived the 1915 Armenian Genocide. No one can take are history, culture or are ethnicity away from Armenians. We are proud and strong people and the government can not take the truth from us. Armenians know our truth, and history.
As someone with Armenian family, we just consider ourselves Armenian. We don’t use US boxes. It actually makes the most sense for us to just be us. Armenia is in Asia fyi. We come from a history and part of the world where religion determines “race” in the West. We were deemed “white” to help escape after the Armenian Genocide.
You are not white. Armenians are not white you are from the middle east! The armenian genocide happened because armenians attacked the civilians. I read many things about this topic.
this ^^^
@@DiePatriotin-Arisch Turks are evil though ,you can see when you look at them ,they are evil
I agree. I don't agree with color terminology much at all, including white. The U.S. has had this BIG emphasis on whiteness. Right. They give it to you and take it away. It's something like a club membership. The truth is there's many tones of skin shades that fit into the olive range all throughout Europe. In my point of reference, I am convinced that the United States has coined whiteness more than any place else on the map.
Maybe we can make a change, we are a young nation relatively speaking and so diverse. I hope these are just growing pains :(
Well said. I'd argue whiteness is an obsession in the US, I just shake my head.
I've lived in America for 45 years and I never heard the term "whiteness" until about 5-6 years ago lol
best comment!
Hi Danielle, have you heard of the White Australia Policy? It was the immigration policy of the Australian Government from 1901 to 1966. The aim was to keep Asians and non-Europeans out. To my understanding, it was policed by immigration officials using a reading/writing comprehension test in an Anglo-Celtic language. The trick here is that if they didn’t like the look of you, but you happened to be able to read & speak English competently, they would put a Gaelic passage in front of you or some complicated science journal, to ensure you didn’t pass. There were people of Asian heritage already in Australia from the Gold Rush many years before, who if they wanted to visit home would not be granted a visa to re-enter Australia. There were also Pacific Islanders brought to Australia - some forcibly - as indentured labourers, who were deported during this period leaving wives and children behind in Australia. On a related but different tangent, post WW2 Australians were initially uncomfortable and fearful of large numbers of arrivals from places like Greece and Italy, but as these groups integrated and became accepted, the same mistrust and racism shifted to Asian arrivals from 1970s onwards and then more recently to Middle Eastern / Muslim immigrants. Proving as you said that this definition of “whiteness” is really an evolving category of who we’re comfortable living side by side with.
I find this believable since Australia was a British penal colony. It's estimated that 20% of the white population are descendants of convicts. So it does not surprise me of the criminal behavior they exhibited towards the black indigenous people. Since the failure to mention in history lessons that the goal of colonialism is to totally wipe out the original indigenous people. Secondly, try and assimilate them out of existence, through the white males not white females, breed them out, i.e., whitewash the dark population. These historical facts can be found everywhere western Europeans went. The once hidden truths will be revealed in the age of Aquarius. Revelation b4 judgment.
Their immigration system is still really weird. WHY DOES IT MATTER if I arrive by boat or plane? Of course *personally* I arrived by airplane because that is the proper thing to do in that country/ my parents had the common sense to get a visa before flying us out. It's confusing why the way one arrives should make a difference but apparently it does.
That policy would have also excluded Eastern Europeans who certainly couldn't read English or Gaelic.
Australia should have kept the policy.
AUSTRALIA was even more racist than the USA, what they did to PETER NORMAN was disgusting
Makes my trifle olive skin blood boil. As a DEI facilitator at a local hospital I was astounded at the amount of pushback by leaders and doctors. Keep speaking the truth it is needed now more than ever.
OLIVE SKIN?.. WHICH ONES? THE GREEN ONES OR THE BLACK ONES?
Fadool...Lebanese?
I felt the same way
I worked in a hospital in the south. The race assignment was horrible. ♥
@@denisehenry3427 sorry and I’m afraid a very common experience. Hope you are well.
I love this channel ❤️ rational, logical, fairly unbiased, and I can tell you are well researched. I also enjoy your perspective. God bless and keep up the great work!
Oh my gosh I’m really honored to read that. Thank you
Thank you for this video, it's truly excellent and well-researched. My wife is Armenian, we are both immigrants in France, and we have discussed this topic quite a bit. She is fairly light-skinned, but we have nonetheless dealt with situations where it was clear that she was being treated differently than I was and for no apparent reason. For example, once we were flying back to France from Greece while she was pregnant - when boarding the plane I noticed she wasn't behind me so I went back and saw that she was being held up by two men in plain clothes, who proceeded to examine her passport and residence permit very intensely, and asked her lots of questions. Mind you, I had just walked right past them and they didn't say a single word to me... When they finally realized she was Armenian (which, for whatever reason, didn't occur until they took her passport out of the case to see the cover), they immediately let her go and started acting nicely to her, and brushed off my questions about why she was singled out as if it were no big deal.
It was obvious that they were profiling her, probably thinking that she might be from a Middle Eastern country and was trying to travel to France with fake documents. Mind you, they didn't do this to any other person in the line that I had seen (who were all Western European looking "white" people). Anyways, I think this goes to show that with these groups like Armenians who inhabit the periphery of Europe, being perceived as "white" or not is completely situational and somewhat random. So yeah, even though these categories are really complete BS, it does have many implications for people, and it's not clear that this court ruling or any other normative decision like that actually changed anything from the societal perspective - many Armenians certainly don't benefit from white privilege.
Wow, thank you for adding this to the conversation. Firstly, I am always thankful when people with this heritage can speak on the video because I am not Armenian and am an outsider looking in. You are 100% right, court rulings cannot change hearts and minds. We see this over and over again. Sometimes it is just privilege on paper.
This is a bit off the racial topic. I knew a lady once who worked in a library. She took a vacation in Turkey and had a great time. As she was routing through the Turkish airport, she was asked for her passport and detained in a room. After a bit of conversation between several Turkish officials, they handed back the passport and let her board the plane. It was only later that she became disturbed at the thought of what was happening. She looked at her passport again and saw her occupation was Librarian. Though she was not Armenian, and did not look it, could this be why she was detained? Because the Turkish officials could not read the english passport and only saw the IAN?
As Armenian I have never experienced this, you are telling an anecdote that happened once claiming some type of none sense.
@rosemcginnis914 that's not nonsense..I know exactly what he's talking about..it must sound crazy because it never happened to you..let's not act like racism and colorism doesn't exist..let's face it..its world wide..she wouldn't make these videos if it wasn't true about skin color..it happens all over in different ways.
@@rosemcginnis914 congratulations for passing as a “regular” white person! I don’t really know what else to say to you.
I love the care and compassion you have put in this research to so clearly present this. Thank you for that love ❤
As someone from South Asia, it was fascinating to me when I learned about Racial Classification in America. Indians from India were classified as White in 1950 and until 1980 they were considered White, when some Gujarati Americans from India petitioned for the classification to be changed from White to Asian for “emotional reasons and affirmative action in small business loans”
Otherwise they would still be considered White by default today. But the US Census bureau still states that the “Asian Indian” classification is not an actual racial or ethnic identifier and Indians and other South Asians can identify as the race they belong to, since India is very diverse, and Indians can be of any race, be it White like Nikki Haley and Rohit Bal or Dravidian like Aziz Ansari or East Asian like Mamta Banerjee or Hispanic like Nirav Tolia
Yes the legal history for “south Asian” is crazy as well, I’ll get into it.
White is a status not a human races
Nikki Haley is not white. You lot are delusional 😂. What next, rishi sunak also white? Ammonia , Iran are Middle Eastern countries and they don’t look white at all and they are not white
'White' is not a race.
Caucasian is the term that should be used😊
America has systemic racism and being BLACK is being less than so no one wants the classification or connection to slaves!
Excellent video. You bring up deep insights into a very complex topic
Another undeniable example of how deeply rooted racism had become in this country
All who wanted to be white Italians, Hispanics, Armenians, Asians, etc, sure had no problem adapting to racist beliefs. It's a shame that those ethnics groups that suffered trough atrocities because of who they were, ended up being the perpetrators of hate when they came to America..
Rooted against white people, so many tik toks of young people who hate lighter skinned people, now east asains are included
Thank you for doing this. Every time has a government has tried to do this kind of thing - e.g. South Africa, Nazi Germany, the U.S. - it turns into a rabbit hole of nonsense that usually also ends in people dying or at the least, being treated unjustly. Technically, the U.S. Census Bureau "allows" us to self-identify, but there's no getting away from those government-approved boxes that are used everywhere from redistricting Congress to the media, to police statistics, to advertising.
Caucasians come from the Caucasus Mountains (Armenia, Azerbaijan, Georgia, and parts of southern Russia).
Aryans come from Iran.
That's what the words were supposed to mean before racists coöpted them.
շնորհակալություն բոլորիդ 👍🙏🇦🇲 Merci, Shnorhagalutyun 🇦🇲💮👏👏🙏
Armenians were probably considered culturally white "European" probably due to being religiously Christian and the language Indo-European. However the Persians and West Asians are not considered white. People from Iran and in the Caucasian region look very similar however their languages differ.
Armenians (Hayastanis) are also West Asian and Iranians, Afghans and Pakistanis are of Indo-European family group and speak an Indo-European language as well so I think Christianity played a big role of this misidentification about Hayastani people.
@NYTY Listen young lady: YOU ARE DOING SUCH AN AWESOME JOB! Thank you so much! Saludos desde Panamá,
Una gran saluda a Panama! Estaba en Panama en 1992-1995. Me encanto la gente, el pais, la comida y la vida panamena. Viva Panama!
Thank you!!😭 (also thanks for calling me young LOL #37)
That "white by law" is bananas!!! Me being a descendant of the indigenous peoples of this country is still classified "less than".
By who?
I love learning from you. Keep it up.
She is literally a freelance history teacher. I agree. Everyone should have their kids watch her series.
I’m so glad! One correction: you are learning WITH me. ☺️👆
@@nytn Europe and the whole world sees Armenia as a white nation. you know USA is not the whole world. please keep this liberal propaganda of yours in USA and leave other nations alone
Have you explored the Journal of American Ethnicity? It may be published by the Board of Trustees of the University of Illinois. I was trying to find a reference for you regarding the Chinese woman in Alabama who was declared by the courts to be colored, therefore not allowed to attend a white university. Until sometime in the 1930s, 1940s, quite a few groups, now classified as white, were considered colored, not black, but colored.
I haven’t!
The opposite of colored is discolored europeans are not white they are discolored,you can’t hide facts everyone knows that don’t fix it to your liking .hahahaha
Something like two-thirds of all “white” Europeans are descended from Mongols, Huns and other eastern Asian peoples, and they came out of the Asian steppes. So maybe we’re all Asian anyway!
Many Native Americans were reclassified as Black, or Colored in the 1800's after The Dawes Act.
Anyone not white was classified as Black under racial integrity laws. A video on those laws would be mighty interesting. That history is super fascinating.
Racial categories need to be eliminated ASAP!
How do people really feel being labeled a color?
I agree!!!!
It's not the label of being black 🖤. It the treatment that you get because of the label. Growing up we had a saying "sticks and stones may break my bones, but words can't hurt me". ,nowadays words also hurt. ♥
The color is merely a symbol. In nature, aposematism is the way by which species survive aggression by displaying warning colors/symbols or attract mates in a similar way. Humans have the same system in that "the color carries the history". When we see someone of a particular appearance, we go to our friend or foe analysis, then our fight or flight response. Skin color plays a role, but it is far from alone. Hair type, facial structure, body plan all work together to determine how you will behave when confronted with someone who is different from what you know. Consciously, you do not feel this but subconsciously it is running your show. In the end, we are all racists because we all want to survive and thrive.
Unfortunately, the racial category in the U.S will remain forever because America is the most diverse country in the world.
@@shingotakekuma5138 I fixate on culture more than appearance. If I like someones culture, I like them. If I don't admire their culture, I just avoid them.
As a Brit, this is just soooo bizarre and insane, nowhere outside the US are Armenians considered 'white'. Not in London where I live, nor Canada, where I've also lived (where they are grouped as Western/Central Asian), nor Russia (as part of the former Soviet Union). The average person in Armenia would probably be floored if you said they were the same as a Norwegian or French person.
People from Western Asia, the Middle East, Turkey etc have their own cultures and traditions that exist outside of 'whiteness' and the West. It really reveals the brutal racist history of the US, anyone can be white as long as they are not visibility black or indigenous. And expanding the former only serves to further marginalise the latter two as outgroups or other. It's no wonder the country seems to be sliding towards fascism. Who's next on the whiteness ladder in the US? Cubans, Turks, Saudis? Your country really needs to address its racist past if it ever hopes to heal. Yikes!
Cubans are not a race
Interestingly, Cubans, Argentines, and some others can change from white to nonwhite just by moving to the United States from their home countries. Also, are French and Norwegians the same? Your comment seems to imply yes.
Somehow I think it has more to do with being Christian than how Armenians look, as they look similar to other people in the region. Also, I know Armenians who definitely do not consider themselves white, only kind of sometimes often passing as white.
Drew, with all due respect, it was you Brits who sowed the seeds of so many of our pathologies. Cheers!
I hope we can start to shift the way we see ourselves and our neighbors!
Irish used to be a race on immigration records. My Grandad's aunt emigrated to USA in 1913 and on her immigration and naturalization papers it has race: Irish, nationality: British, born: Liverpool, England. She became a US citizen in 1940.
In some cases people was considered white to build up the white population numbers. Other ethnic groups identified as white for a better life. It is not only blacks passing as white. Finding your roots produced by Dr. Henry Lewis Gates on PBS has turned up some interesting genealogical finds.. Your video was very interesting. Happy Junteenth. ♥
Another interesting video, I was not aware of this case.
If the ‘one drop rule’ was still in play can you imagine how many people would be classified ‘African American’ today? All it took was one black ancestor.
I once knew someone who changed from legally black to legally white by moving from one US state to another.
I believe this , Louisiana had the one drop rule on the books until 1982
@@nytn The person had just enough great-great-great grandparents to be white in the one state but not enough to be white in the adjacent state. Also, Italians were not allowed to attend white schools in some parts of Louisiana.
We'll find out how many of them have a Black ancestor when the government starts paying reparations.
@@chgosatrap You have a point. We have more whites signing up for Native Americans status. I wonder why. ♥
A very interesting case that I had never heard of or even dreamed could happen! Your presentation also brought home to me the the way language is used in the US is different. From many places elsewhere, especially other nations once under British rule. I am observing this only because it changes the meaning of what we think we are hearing, or at least those of us looking in from outside. I will have to check how France deals with these semantics. I refer to the last bit of this video where you argue that this is a dangerous idea to have that government can change who you are….. and here it is the word government that I found difficult. Mainly because over here (U.K.) the idea of government and state are two different things that have different uses to the American usage. Government is the current party in charge of the state, and the state is the embodiment of the nation. I hope you do not think this is criticism for it is not! It is comparison. I can see why stare might not be right for the US, I mean people might then say ‘which state?’…. So Americans are using government exactly how we use State. As to the Armenian question it is utterly fascinating, and I wonder whether we have anything that remotely resemble this. Another observation, I do not think for one moment this changed what Armenians knew themselves to be, they knew where they came from, and seemed from your discussion to have continued their own cultural practices too, and would have been more Americanised as time passed.
I hope you do not mind my little digression from the main topic, but I think it is a good example of why words and their usage are so important. After all that one little word - white - conferred so much. If a whole nation, even a somewhat decimated one could be legitimised for citizenship purposes it really does undermine the whole concept - in fact if they had thought of it at the time would they have made that decision? Of course the racialisation of the world was really coming to a peak then, and within a short period of time would have devastating consequences. The truth people really do not want to discuss is that humans have a tendency to want to dominate those it believes are weaker than them, and will use anything to obtain the rewards of domination. Racialisation is just the excuse for being that way and not having to deal with it. So maybe ‘making them white’ is a small concession to admitting that as well. But it does make those who by no stretch of the imagination can be called white in an invidious position.
The more I think about race the more I am convinced that we will never get past our human failings and mistakes as custodians of the planet until we completely dispense with is as something we use to define ourselves, and we should let go of this very bad idea and embrace our differences, it really is not that hard.
In the USA, what we refer to as an “administration” the Brits refer to as a “government.” Thus the Biden Administration in the UK would be the Biden Government. We generally reserve “state” to mean States of the Union.
In France, we have had several famous Armenians (Aznavour, Balladur, Sarkozy, Romain Gary etc) and generally, theis status as white is not questioned. Moreover, the french have a very wide range of skintones themselves). However, the wife of one of the contributors to this thread had a very bad experience. (@adoberoots)
I am Armenian and I have always considered myself white. This is absolutely fascinating. Thanks you so much! ❤️👍🏻
You're so welcome!
I was reading the comments on your video regarding the Italian history in this country. I'd mentioned that many Italians and Sicilian have middle eastern blood. Many agreed. While many were upset and disagreed. Anyways. A few days ago. I'd saw a video from an Italian, who was talking about their history. The topic came up. In the midst of the different mixtures. He'd too mentioned the middle eastern mixed. People tried to argue with him on that. But, an Italian guy from Italy, said that his family origin is middle eastern going back some centuries. Also. My old coworker is Italian and Irish. Years ago I'd mentioned the middle eastern roots. He'd agreed and said that his Italian mother and family's origin are middle eastern. And I was told that Sophia Loren family is Egyptian of Arab origin.
I noticed you completely forgot the Moroccan and west African occupation of Italy. An Italian did a DNA 🧬 test he has west african and Kenyan dna
@@mansamusa2012 i didn't forget. I was addressing a particular conversation to her, from a couple videos
Yes, there was Islamic occupation for centuries in many European countries.
@@truthseeker3967 yes. I've been aware this for a few decades now
Italians really have two distinct lineages, one is Northern Italians related to the Celtic/Germaníc tribes and the other Southern Italians related to the ancestors of the Greeks. you are correct that Southern Italians also have genetic influence from mixing with Arabic people and to a lesser extent even the Normans.
For a long time Northern Italians used to say “everything south of Rome is Afríca” and discriminated against Southern Italians. Today people don’t know the history and tend to cling to this idea that Southern Italians and Northern Italians are exactly the same (both “whíte”.). Checkout the DNA study, “Genomic history of the Italian population recapitulates key evolutionary dynamics of both Continental and Southern Europeans.”
The American aspirational experiment requires a “standard” for the reward of privileges. Hazing immigrants is part of the bonding process to prove loyalty to the “system.”
You nailed it.
If the government or society says you’re white but you’re group is treated differently or defined in a very linear manner it’s because you actually aren’t white enough… but people will just roll with privilege as they see fit
Finally a comment that makes good sense. Many folks in the comment section are looking for excuses as to why the 'white' classification makes sense, and how they are able to fit in it, saying things like appearance, traits, ethnic origin etc, not understanding the actual pathetic reason why 'race' was actually invented in order to divide and control people, unequal gaps etc like you just mentioned.
1911 in Minnesota had a court case to denied citizenship for Finns. Claim was that finns are asian (mongols). Ok in our genepole we have eastsiberian genes. We have lived here in Ultima Thule thousends of years but still our western neighbours try time after time prove that we are not europeans. But finns have lived in Delaware from 17th century and one of us was original maker of declaration of independens but that don't matter for those in Minnesota. So racism in USA had and have many faces but not one pretty.
Really fascinating story! Thank you for sharing! There was a similar story on how Arabs and other Middle Easterners were, at least legally, awarded the "white" status in the USA. I've watched a documentary once, retelling the story how Lebanese and Syrians who have been living in the USA for generations HAD TO go to court to be recognised as "white" in order not to be deported to a place they have never been living before.
As an American of Syrian background I genuinely state my Syrian forebears who came to the USA were actually Caucasian looking.
@@fnoce5948 probably but you know how the Ottoman Empire was back then and how Syria, Turkey etc are still now. Our peoples dont have like one unified look. My Grandmother was a Turkmen from the Aleppo region but she was blonde and had grey blue eyes for example, while others in her family had more eurasian or darker middle eastern looks. This is one of the reasons why I think this "white race" category is BS.
@@hakanozaslan9571 Nope. My Syrian family was all white. No probably about it.
@@fnoce5948Most ME/NA people are closely related to Europeans, making the concept of dividing them more proof in the stupidity of race.
Same thing with Latin Americans and South Asians who are all varying degrees mixed with "Caucasian" (European & ME).
@@couchgrouches7667 There are some South Asians not mixed.
It's interesting because Canada also discriminated towards the Armenians.😢
Not all Armenians have olive skin, some have pretty fair skin, even blue eyes and blond hair. Armenians are a European nation, it's weird for me as an Armenian even to think about being non-European.
But you are not remotely europeans, you are middle eastern with an inferiority complex
@@dulaman9791 I believe the problem is more within you my friend rather than in Armenians, Have you met All Armenians in the world to know we have superiority complex??
I guess You have a hate complex, you are a Separatist rather than a Unifyer!! I am an Armenian and Armenians are not Asian, are not European, and are not otehr things, Armenians are Armenians fullstop! Just as Jews are Jews and not Middle Easterns, Greeks are Greeks, Spanish are Spanish and not European. It does not matter where we are from, what is the skin colour, what is the religion, those are Useless, what is important in your existance is silent and it is found in your Heart's center, try to look within and open your heart, You will fimd the truth. Shalom!!
@@harmony5807he said inferiority complex NOT superiority
Armenia is in Europe?
@@Србомбоница86 Yeah I know, no Armenia is not in Europe. Those things do not matter anyway, Armenians are Armenians and they are humanoid that is what matters most!! 🙏💜😉
I met one of Cartozian kids. She told me all about this case back in early 2000’s. She said, after being denied by the court for so many times, her father had to take his wife to the court and stand next to him. because she had blue eyes and blond hair, that was the one of the ways to prove of being white.
This arbitrary classification of white vs. any other is so crazy. 🙃 Honestly, I am speechless. 😮🫢
Brown Mexicans are classified “white hispanic “
Irish people are the whitest people on earth.
Yea I’m not surprised people if given their own self interest people will choose to identify with the group that gives them the most benefits legally or socially. The group no one historically wants to assimilate into fully tbh is black as a category unless it came with financial gain or you were already an outcast from the dominant society.. because there wasn’t much to gain if there was another example I’d say being a woman in a male dominated field…you’re probably gonna assimilate to a certain in ways that are and aren’t right
What was the black peoples doing ,at this time, Read your bibles about White Peoples
Yah I need to cover this one
I live in the Arabian Gulf, and here there is a large Armenian population who generally are a subset of the Lebanese expat population. Visually they are as "brown" as every other fair skinned Middle Easterner out here, so it's always strange for me whenever Americans refer to Kim K and her clan as white. I know their mom is actually white, but to me her kids are as brown as they come. I am black, but even I have relatives fairer skinned than them. And generally speaking, here in the Middle East they are not considered "white" like other Westerners. Just my perspective.
I'm not from the Middle East, but an Egyptian woman told me that Armenians in Egypt as referred as "European." It just depends on perspective. In the Armenian language, we don't have words that describe people by skin color, we refer to their nationality. We don't call anyone "white" or "brown" unless we have to describe them physically. We refer to their ethnicity. Kim Kardashian is called "white" because she IS "white-passing" enough for American society who are obsessed with whiteness equating to social status.
@@JRNarianKim is not white passing ,she looks very very brown like Bollywood actress ,even not just color but her face shape
@@Србомбоница86 so all of us in the Balkans with olive Mediterranean color are not white, but according to your logic we are some zygotes from India lol
@@Србомбоница86 and by the way, the r1b haplogroup strongly dominates among Armenians.
Haplogroup R1b (Y-DNA) - Eupedia
R1b is the most common haplogroup in Western Europe. if a white guy smokes weed and then looks like he has salty eyes, that doesn't mean he's chinese lol
@@midlspahe I don't consider myself white I am only Serbian ,Kim definitely looks very very brown like indian Bollywood style girl,look at her face when she was young ,she genuinely looks VERY brown ,shape of eyes lips everything
Another interesting aspect is that by definition Armenians are considered Caucasian since they’ve originated in the Caucasus (and still live there) for thousands of years.
I never knew about this case! And as an Armenian-American, I consider myself as "Caucasian", referring to region of where Armenians came from.
Armenians come from the Armenian Highlands, Caucasus is located between Russia and Georgia. Every armenian need to know that we are not from Caucasus, but Armenian highlands, what today Turkey call Eastern Anatolia, in that case when Anatolia already mean "East" on Greek language, by Turkey Armenian Highlands are Eastern East.
(sorry for bad english)
A good book to read is "White By Law". Actually get both editions as they different enough to warrant using both.
My family is Arab American and my family history has a lot of similarities.
White is a concept and even now I am not always white by the definition of others. Pretty much, white people decide who is white when it benefits them. I am more honored when I am accepted as BIPOC by people of color than when white people go out of their way to let me know they consider me white. It almost feels like when the mean girl at school is forced by her mom to invite you to tbe sleepover. And while you know you are invited, you can guess that your sleeping bag will be put in the hallway.
I don’t believe in race i believe we are all of one race if you have to classify it and that is the human race. Also i find that there is prejudice in all groups of people. Some black people don’t like “white” people some brown people don’t like black people some white people don’t like black people etc It goes on and on. Prejudice does not begin and end with any one color it resides quite comfortably in all people regardless of color. It’s a wise person who knows this and leads his life accordingly.
If you know this why would you go anyway? You can’t blame the “mean” girl. Put the blame on yourself and take charge of your own life. We’ve all been discriminated against by someone or something. Don’t you think so? But it’s time to grow up and say it’s okay I will learn from this experience and be a better human being in my walk of life.
@@sarahholbrook3636spoken like a true white person
In America you’re white end of story and most of you know it.
@@sarahholbrook3636best internet reply of the year😊
Armenians are close to Europeans in many ways. We are genetically similar (with Armenia being the only country east of Germany where R1B is the dominant paternal haplogroup). We both speak Indo-European languages and have a similar pre-Christian Indo-European religious heritage. Then there's the Christian religious connection as well.
No wonder Armenians tend to be such smart and succesfull people. I wish them the very best in these hard times they are going through today...
true
R1b occurs in parts of Russia too.
@@neilreynolds3858 you're right, but R1A is more common there still. Both R1A and R1B are family to eachother as well though of course.
Nah, genetically armenians are west asians, there's no denying that. Also speaking an indo-european language does not make you european, considering that those languages are spoken even in Sri Lanka. Christianity is a middle eastern religion, so there's that. Also being european does not make you smart (thats lowkey the racist subtexts of your post). Among all the Caucasians (as in, people from the Caucasus and Transcaucasia) armenians are still the brownest, and there is nothing wrong with that!
@@dulaman9791 I never claimed language is the same as genetics. That being said: Armenians and Europeans do share said R1B genes that happened to originate in the Eastern European Steppe cultures thought to have been the ancestral Indo-Europeans. The pre-Christian Armenian pantheon also is clearly related to those of the Indo-Europeans. And as for Christianity: it is as much indebted to Greco-Roman philosophy and morality as to the semitic religion.
And yes, Europe has a civilization to be proud of and talents that are unique. Sorry if that bothers you, but that's not my problem.
Armenians have a history of facing horror, one of the darkest. It’s no surprise they’re so good at assimilating wherever they go. They just want to survive the Turks. Interesting video!
This is weird. It was Spaniards who created the entire notion of whiteness with their casta system. They called MENA moros. Yet, in the USA Spaniards are not white because they misbelieve Spaniards are mixed with MENA, which they are NOT, yet MENA are considered white.Iberians like the Basques are purest and oldest of all Europeans. The typical Northwest Spaniard are related to the Irish (celtic) and look more like a real French person or dark Germans and nothing like MENA people. In fact, North Spaniards are part German. They look like the Spaniard in my avatar or like Emilio Estevez. WTH...
Casta is something I plan to do a video on. It's so specific it's wild to me
A great video would be to explain the term caucasian. The Caucasus Mountains are between Russia, Turkey, and Iran yet somehow British people are considered Caucasian. It has never made sense to me.
Us British don't even call ourselves Caucasians though, we just call ourselves British.
@@lolahunnnyBritish is not ethnicity,English is,they are white
@@Србомбоница86 British means a person of either Scotland, Wales and England (technically also Northern Ireland as well but they are Irish to me).
The Italians and Irish fought to be white in America
Absolutely. All the blatantly-racist encounters I've had were from Irish people, in fact. One random Irish guy even called me 'the word' out in public once in the Summer of 2012.
I worked a couple of summers at an Armenia-American summer camp in the Catskills (Camp Nubar) many years ago. I had such an awesome time.
Very cool! I used to live in upstate NY, it is gorgeous
Whiteness is not just about skin color. Society wants white people to believe they don't have a culture besides white skin color. Even though I don't have West European heritage I think they are the founders of the modern world. They contributed so much to science, higher math, technology and philosophy. I am not afraid of this fact and it doesn't make me inferior
Europe is full of culture and these color labels make no sense. I have met east asians and middle eastern people with snow white skin but that doesnt make them white either. And why do we call europeans white, africans black but we cant call east asians yellow? Yellow is offensive but white and black isnt? Its not even accurate...some "black" people are brown, some white people are not as "white" as others...do we really go by the color wheel....weird.
My grandfather went to America and lived and worked in Detroit in the thirties and was never granted citizenship... He was armenian but not "fully" white (government standard)
I’m Armenian. My grandmother’s parents were immigrants. My great grandfather never knew his real birthday so he gave the most “American” answer he could when they asked him for one. July 4th. I used to think it was a funny story, after seeing this it puts a sour taste in my mouth. My great grandmother was fleeing genocide and got to a country where she was “safe” only to be told she couldent wear her traditional clothes or sing traditional songs anymore :(
Fun fact, Malcolm X's first girlfriend Beatrice Bazarian (Sophia in his autobiography) was Armenian.
I love your research, your videos are always enlightening.
Thank you, it is a joy to get to share it with kindred spirits
I had a high school teacher whose family escaped the Armenian genocide. She looked like a lot of people from that part of the world (Middle East) and I always thought calling such people "white" (or really any of us), is so reductive and dismisses the rich heritage of these people. Kim Kardashian has had plastic surgeries galore that have completely made her look bland and not as pretty as she was and it is a shane she didn't find her Armenian features attractive enough.
Same as Bella Hadid. She had nose surgery as a teenager and has been quoted recently to regret it, since it's the nose of her father & her ancestors (from the Middle East). She has had other procedures done to have more of a "model" look and in doing so, has decreased her Middle Eastern features.
As was too often the case-- a few White male jurists/politicians desperate to stay in power, even if otherwise innocent immigrants are used as pawns.
@@kitty_s23456 Yeah, that's so sad she felt the need to change that! I don't know why people with distinctive noses go for rhinoplasties when their nose is what makes them look so unique and handsome/beautiful.
I believe that King Artur of Briton , Arminius of Germany, Gaskonians or Basque of Spain etc have ancient Armenian origin.
Don't just "believe" it. Know it, cause it's simply very much the case. Ar-Tur means Take - Sword in Armenian, meaning the sword from the stone. Arminius was Armenian, see the ancient German song called "Annolied", where they say that the Bavarians came from Armenia, same with the early Britons, just search it, "early Britons and Armenia". And The Basque are Armenian cause their language is very much alike. It would be good if people finally started using their brains in order to figure out that Armenians are the start of Europe.
@@michaelvanderkruis8729bavarians and Arminius are different topics, we are talking about B.C. Arminius and A.C Bavarius . Yes I heard about Anolid.,
Check out Edgar Cayce ‘s The origin and destiny of men . Chapter The Pyramid Builders .
th-cam.com/video/mw-neRX3t_o/w-d-xo.htmlsi=4viVjgSybQF1wnwe
Hi Romero, I am a member plus follower of your TH-cam channel, thanks you for sharing this kind of stuff these important things that nobody else is sharing with us on social media, thank you Miss Romero
You expose and provide a wealth of information and is not appreciated enough. I think you should have far more subscribers.
That’s so nice of you!
@@nytnAlso, I'm certain I have subscribed to you 3 times now and keep getting unsubcribed. You may want to ask your subscribers to double check because this I hear this seems to be a common issue with TH-cam.
Oh my gosh that is beyond my tech understanding. I’m so glad you got back on! 😳
I got Cousins who were told That They Were Armenian and Swedish. Well one of Them took They DNA Test from Ancestry and Found out They're realted to Me, which Means They're African, Eroupean, Native American, with some Asian. When I met My cousin and one of Her kids for The First time, I told them "Your Dad probably knew that He was a Gumbo, but if Mother Africa showed up in any of
Y'all He could explain it by Your Mom being Armenian". She and Her Mom were cool with it.
@NYTN This is why most Somalis REJECT this colonial color system in the West because the true identity of a human being is through their lineage via tribe/ethnicity and their nationality, but NOT a mere crayola box.
No wonder why indigenous natives in America and Asians also HATE being called “Red race/Redskins” or “Yellow” as an identity. The UN had to apologize to their Asian staff for having a survey where they had “yellow” as a identity. Not to mention, a train station that passed through an Asian community in Atlanta GA was renamed after the Asian community find the term “yellow” insulting and offensive.
So again, WHY is only in America are people classified as a mere color when they are MORE than that?
What I don’t understand is why ppl will think becoming white is the ultimate goal. Just be yourself.
This is why most Somalis REJECT this colonial color system in the West because the true identity of a human being is through their lineage via tribe/ethnicity and their nationality, but NOT a mere crayola box.
No wonder why indigenous natives in America and Asians also HATE being called “Red race/Redskins” or “Yellow” as an identity. The UN had to apologize to their Asian staff for having a survey where they had “yellow” as a identity. Not to mention, a train station that passed through an Asian community in Atlanta GA was renamed after the Asian community find the term “yellow” insulting and offensive.
So again, WHY is only in America are people classified as a mere color when they are MORE than that?
I haven't even seen this video but I guess Armenians were one of the first people to accept Jesus christ and that Christianity is western or white so called religion by some people. It really don't matter y I don't know any Armenians but my dad was born in1935 Boyle heights and he told me Armenians were good people that's enough for me it doesn't matter if they are green or pink. I just remember my pops telling me they were good
I lived in Boyle Heights when I was a child. Then we moved to El Sereno. When I lived in Porter Ranch, I had many Armenian neighbors. They were good people. I now live in Idaho, but haven’t even heard the words Boyle Heights in decades.
Well u can Google map the streets starting off let's say whitier blvd and lorena and point the google map arrows in the direction of which way u want to go and then you can act like your cruising the streets of Boyle heights again 😆 taa daa presto your back in time !! Welcome back😆. My dad moved to venice . I live in mar vista area but I take rides to Boyle heights every now and then just to imagine what streets my dad used to be running on . As he would say measuring the sidewalks . If u haven't heard Boyle heights in a long time I hope it cheered u up possibly with a good memory.
@@gabriel63impala Oh wow, I graduated from Venice High School and lived in Mar Vista as a teenager in high school. I wonder if Mar Vista bowling alley is still there. It has been great chatting here with you.
😄 it's still there ,been remodeled and pepys gallery restaurant that was in it has been closed down they have a different type of restaurant with a dining menu that has changed mostly burgers or sandwiches a few other things I don't think they serve breakfast anymore . Oh and I don't know if u were here when mar vista market was around but that was closed and turned into a post office.
@@gabriel63impala I used to shop at Mar Vista Market all the time. Do you remember Ralph’s Five and Dime?
I love your channel, you are doing God's Work in helping us to understand that we should definitely have another standard to judge an interact with people on. May I suggest 'righteousness' as stated in the Quran 49:13? "Surely, the most noble of you in the sight of God is the most righteous among you?"
You're so correct, having a court decide on an issue which in a racist country, meant almost everything for your and your families future, is absurd!
I think this increased racism in this country because the 'wanna be white' immigrants and light skinned 'blacks' had to prove they were on the same team as the highest caste.
Whyte people were the first slaves in the US. That is why the term Free Whyte Men.
In 1908, my maternal Ottoman Armenian grandparents immigrated to California. They started a successful farm in Fresno, California. They acquired US Citizenship. William Saroyan's short stories give us a good look at how Fresno Armenians experienced the American Experience.
I love your researches,,you are on point,,keep up the good work
Thank you for being here ☺️
White? What does white really mean? I am white but what really goes into that, the DNA shows that that I am all European mainly from the British isles. There’s ethnicities that are not counted even in the white in this category. There’s some German, Eastern European, and Southern Italian in the mix for me. So, what goes into making your ethnicity a lot of genes. The take away is that we are all humans in the same great big family. We should just asking what race and ethnicity a person is.
100%👆
It means you’re a brotha from
Another motha.
it seems that most people think "white" refers to anyone of Northern European heritage. Some will say your ethnic background doesn't even matter, if your skin tone is light enough you pass as "white". It's all just BS really
great work once again!
Thank you so much for being here
I enjoyed this presentation. I think a caveat needs to be underscored, so this can be understood in context. Prior to 1952, Asians were not permitted to naturalize. So, to gain access to citizenship, it was critical for Armenians and Syrians, in particular, to argue that while they were from Asia, they were not Asian. This is really the crux of the issue, much more so than how people looked (obviously subjective). Muddying all of this was the pseudo-science of the day: eugenics, social darwinism, and of course the very notion of race itself. And while, as you point out, Italians --- a very numerous and notoriously undesirable ethnic group at the time --- did not need to go to court for similar reasons, the reality for them (and others) was that access to citizenship did NOT make them immune from prejudice, of which they got a whole heap. One should not misconstrue "legal" whiteness with a lived experience of whiteness, so called "privilege." However, the 1952 ruling regarding Asians and naturalization meant that these types of cases were over. Now, instead of arguing to be included in the white bean counter box, many groups have argued for their own boxes. The MENA box has been proposed and fought for by activists for years and they have not gotten it---partially because no one can agree on who would go in that box and partially because the US government seems disinclined to create more boxes.
*Assyrians
My family is Armenian and definitely more Middle Eastern in appearance, but most of them--- like many commenters--- would be aghast at the idea that they aren't white. Never mind that I've been asked "What are you?" more times than I can count, and my dad gets searched by airport security very frequently. The arbitrariness of race is that it is largely dependent on how others see you. That's why I think the MENA census category makes sense. The only people who perceive MENA people as white are the MENA people themselves.
Sometimes (and rarely) the youtube algorithm does me an absolute solid. Had no idea I would find this so interesting. Excellent video.
Awesome, thank you! So much. This is a video squarely in the middle of a series I am doing called "Becoming American". You might like the other ones, too: th-cam.com/play/PLvzaW1c7S5hQCtI2xUQNyUN0pB9MwNGwv.html
@@nytn Hey! Never had the actual creator reply to me before....What a treat! I will absolutely watch the other ones. Love your presentational style and the obvious amount of background research you put into this. Measured, thoughtful, informed...more please!
@@paulmitchell9975 You caught me at just the right time! I get behind on comments but when I can answer, I always do. Thank you :) Send over some suggestions, I love getting them.
Romero, you are sharp, and a great presenter. Thank you for this professional video covering a very interesting/unique legal case.
Great story that does make me think and is well told. Just to add to the fact of why it was so important, the state of Oregon was fond as a full white supremacists territory by law in 1846. Any black entering the territory had to leave with a 48 hours to only pass through or they would be subject to 30 lashes with a whip. At the time, it was huge territory encompassing Washington state and Idaho. When it became a state in 1859 as the 33 state, they kept that law, which banned black Americans from settling there. It was in 1926 that they finally reversed that Exclusion Law that barred black Americans from Oregon. Today Oregon is 1.9 to 2.1 percent black, depending on sources. That is still far below the national standard. The 1924 Immigration Act also strictly limited Mexican immigrants and put quotas on others, especially from Asia. So this trial fall right into that controversy and illuminates a sea of racial tensions the government was grappling with. Don’t stop shining your light!
My mom’s family are Asian. They changed their last name to Smith and became African Americans. 😅🤣 I’m not making this up!
Yes you are stop it liar
Thank you for this history lesson! Armenians are truly God's selected nation!
WTF???
You have no clue about God when you think God has a selected nation. Nations are created by human laws and wars. You can go and discuss this with Gods "chosen people" the jews if you want. God has no favorite race, nationality or tribe. All souls are sacred.
Brilliantly elucidated, Danielle Romero! Thank you for informing us!
In 1942 Nazi Germany passed a law recognizing the Armenians as “racially pure Aryans.” Aryan nowadays is the politically incorrect term for “Indo European.”
I believe they also declared Karaims (Crimean Jews) Aryans. Nazi's racial science was no less funny than American critical or not race theory. Though yes, today Armenians are considered Indo-European.
This is important with regards to civil rights and societal acceptance for African Americans because being white has historically meant access to benefits and resources legally and socially denied people classified as non white or European in America.
Good and informative video. I now understand the old movies, when a white male/female would say--"I'm free, white, and 21".
I never put that together!
Noone is really "white". Have you really looked at the color white? If you are that color call a hearse.
If the sun hits me...I am as white as chalk yes. Have you seen some east asians? They are white like snow sometimes, even without bleaching. The lack of melanin can really go as far as making your skin white.
@@calistafalcontail not true. If place pure white next to you'll see difference.
It’s kind of strange because Armenia is part of the southern Caucasus region. Part of this region is practically the birthplace of the white race. I’m glad you talked about the Armenian genocide, it often goes unnoticed and not talked about.
Armenia is the start of Europe, anyone claiming otherwise is a muzzly bot or a complete ignoramus.