I'm a new sub, and a 21 year USAF veteran. I was also a Master Instructor in a Rated Flight Officer training unit. I only tell you that so I can say I have been so impressed with your videos and your ability to break down technical aviation concepts & terms in ways that even people with no flying background can understand. We would have been thrilled to have had you in our instructor cadre. Thanks for taking the time to debrief these events.
I have only ever flown a few times, mainly when I was younger. I'm not sure why I even started watching these videos, but I've been watching for many months. I can honestly say that, even though Petter does discuss a lot of crashes, he has a way to explain it in a way that I would feel safe if I ever do fly again. But he also explains things in a way that keeps my interest in something I never had much interest in.
@@AFloridaSon the hardest part of training a new instructor is teaching them to connect with students. Having experience is knowledge is one thing. Being able to deliver that knowledge and skill in a digestible and understandable way is a true skill. These presentations are great in both organization and deliver. If I was still Active Duty I would use some of these video to demonstrate how to break down technical details and how to present to a class.
@@splifstar85 personally? Zero. Friends and people I know? Also zero. How long did it take you to come up with pointlessly belligerent and rude comment for no reason whatsoever. Who taught you the poor manners to use someone else's TH-cam channel to push a persinal agenda? Also, learn to spell Luftwaffe. And acronyms are spelled using all capital letters. It's the little details that matter in public settings. My apologies to the content creator that this interaction had to take place in their comment section.
There was a United holding short of the runway when this happened. Everyone on the left side witnessed the incident. After shutting down, the pilot personally walked through the plane talking to each passenger, to make sure they were mentally ok. That’s really good leadership.
@@johny5400 Not warranted and in poor taste. I will be mortified watching a plane crash. Its good that the UA captain walked down the aisle comforting traumatized passengers. And believe me I am a certified pilot though not commercial rated.
@@gamernerd7139 what I said is that Americans probably need that talk…half of the nation is full of pussies. One has to go way more east to find strong people
As a retired 777 Captain, I am familiar with this accident. Once again your explanation and depiction of what happened is magnificient. This crew had many opportunities to go-around and never chose to do so. No justification whatsoever for what happened. When you go-around it takes longer to get to the gate and you make more money. There is no motivation to be a hero and land out of a bad approach.
The justification on the part of the Captain was to pass his line check and the workload. Ideally, the 3rd pilot should have called the go around due to the workload, but they were all reliant on the aircraft keeping speed.
A go-around is not a failed approach. A go-around is the proper corrective action of a failed approach. Anyone recognizing aircraft condition that is beyond acceptable parameters should be required by company policy and regulation to call out clearly “GO-AROUND”. They all failed this line check drastically.
Two of the fatalities showed just how important seatbelts can actually be in a crash. The four flight attendants were seriously injured but survived because they were strapped in, while the two passengers were not wearing their seatbelts and died.
@@linussvensson8005 I am not a pilot or work in aviation industry, but I could imagine your pilot license will be revoked if your non compliant action lead to some deaths plus you lost an airplane.
I live in the Bay Area and remember this accident well. I will never forget the news crew at KTVU falling for and broadcasting a list of hoax names of the crew. Captain "Sum Ting Wong," "Wi Tu Lo," "Ho Lee Fuk," and "Bang Ding Ow." The levels of competency failure around this accident just kept compounding everywhere we looked. It was incredible.
@@StevePemberton2 I mean, I'm not so enlightened an individual that I didn't laugh. I laughed my ass off, largely at just how incompetent and hurried to get the scoop they were that they let such a blatant hoax go unvetted. But I'd rather it hadn't happened, I can't imagine being the family of the involved and seeing that. Or to be Asian and see that.
@@ProjectDv2 I tend to give the station a pass. Again they are talking to someone at the FAA (from what I understand) and they are given Asian sounding pilots names. I don't really expect them to stop and ponder the names. I know what you are referring to when some hoax is put out and everyone up to AP and CNN fall for it. I just think this was something different, investigating an air crash with fatalities, who is going to suspect that someone at a reputable source is going to give them false names that are racist and lewd.
This one was really surprising for me. Perfectly good airplane, all that experience in the cockpit, perfect weather, perfect visibility, and still 4 fatalities. Wow.
@@JCmultiverseExactly right. The "lying to save face" culture is cowardly, gets people killed, and is as severely outdated and dangerous as circumcising infants before they can make that decision for themselves.
I happened to be plane spotting at SFO and actually watched this happen from a park just south next to the airport-SFO plane spotters will know it. The plane definitely appeared to be low and slow but I didn’t expect the plane to impact the rock wall. The sound of the plane hitting the rock wall was incredibly loud and watching the whole incident was terrifying, incredibly sad, and adrenaline inducing all at once. I feared for the worst, but I’m glad the outcome wasn’t way worse than it already was.
Someone at the airport (probably someone with a sense of humour) phoned the news TV station and gave those names. These were actually broadcast on the news.
I've been to CC Park many, many times. Never deliberately as a planespotter but we've always enjoyed that aspect. I can't imagine having been there to see and hear it. I remember seeing the pall from Flight 191 from my attic window as a kid and that was unsettling enough.
I'm a flight instructor in an approved flight training center and I really found this analysis very instructive. I often recommend your videos to my students as a source to enhance their aeronautical culture and safety awareness. In addition, the video quality, the animation and the simulation is so impressive. Thank you for this really great content.
I am not a pilot and have no desire for aviation but these videos break down highly technical and interesting information in a way that the average person like me can understand! I like these videos! If your students want a laugh you need to watch his video about the Catastrophe with a cat.....
I am an engineer with no relation to the aeronautical industry and I binge watch these videos. They feel like engineering field studies, minimum drama and maximum context.
I was with the FAA when this happened. I was surveying the debris field less than 24 hours after the accident. On the runway I found an identification badge for one of the flight attendants. I still get choked-up when I think about it.
Yes, it would be traumatizing with that kind of grief. This accident is human error. What the hell was his rush to land I question. I'm not a pilot yet instinct would tell me, hey I'm too high, going around and Jimmy crack corn and I don't care. I'm going around cause I mistakenly am too ooo high to come in for the landing and THAT is what I'm going to do.
@@jasonbender2459 he obviously wasn't high enough,he should have calmed his tripping ass with another puff puff give,if you're going to fly high then do it proper half assed never gets you anywhere
I think the reason that the pilot flying was scared to show weakness to his friendly instructor is that he doesn't want to disappoint someone who is so nice. It can be scary to disappoint someone you fear but it hurts you most inside when you disappoint somebody you like.
but they should also think all the souls that rely on him. if it is a cargo flight or empty flight may you can depend on your feeling but here you should depend on rules and experience.
I like how Blancolirio often says that it’s always a go-around with an option to land. Metaphorically true of many things in life as well. Leave a factor of safety and a margin for error and don’t let pride or stubbornness ruin your day.
@@MentourPilot I think you have the wrong final report linked in the video description. The one that is linked is for the 2016 B777 accident of Emirates UAE521 at Dubai International.
The craziest thing is that almost everyone survived. One was killed by a fire truck, another one died a week later from the injuries. The third one was apparently killed on impact.
I remember this accident and the enormous amount of rumors that the media aired. The biggest being that the pilots were drunk during the flight. Glad that you have told what really happened.
I remember when this first happened. It still blows my mind not only that it happened, and not only how many problems the airline had with their procedures, but also that despite cartwheeling pretty much every single passenger survived this. And one who died was unfortunately the victim of extremely bad luck - being struck by a fire engine of all things.
@@MentourPilot probably not enough info for a whole video yet, but you should look at the crash of Learjet N880Z. Really unfortunate crash. They’re all sad, but this one hit a little harder for multiple reasons. Happened at my home airport, the pilot had the mic keyed through the last few seconds of flight, and all in all just a crash that could have easily been avoided if not for a series of really bad decisions.
It's interesting that Asiana had company policy to use autopilot at all times possible but still the training didn't result in full understanding of the various autopilot modes. I would have assumed that with such a heavy emphasis on autopilot, fully understanding the autopilot behavior in all modes would be critical.
Yes, but it’s always an issue when the pilots THINK they understand something but they really don’t. Those knowledge gaps are only exposed in very peculiar situations, like this one..
Most people don’t always remember fully what they learn in school so for Asiana to opt for autopilot in all times is surely one way to be over reliant on something and not emphasizing manual or on going training as a reference point is really bad policy. The rigidity of their leadership structure also played a role in this fatal outcome. If line of communication had been open and not closed the instructors would have step in and avoided this and the pilot would have been sent to more training courses. Clearly he wasn’t ready for the 777.
@@JeanClaudeCOCO I think the instructor should have intervened earlier, either overtaking the control and/or call out go around. Even on driving lessons on car, if the instructor sees any sign from the learner that leads him to believe continuing practice driving on the road is unsafe, he would have to tell the learner to stop the car, swap the seats, and have the instructor driving the car back to the driving school.
I agree. In my career I have come across so many pilots who only used V/S as other modes like FLCH and VPath/VNAV modes especially in association with A/T where not clearly understood. It got worse after the introduction of fully automated GPS approaches followed by ATC shortcuts and subsequent visual clearances when the approach then had to change to managed mode and/or subsequent visual clearances.
Airlines like to talk about having pilots understand automation. From my experience of three Boeing aircraft, I don't think that the design engineers truly understood automation themselves. Many times have I seen these aircraft doing things that cannot and should not happen when flying on automation. If you are wondering what the heck the automation is doing, use a lower level of automation or fly manually if your skills are still up to it.
SFO approach control always keeps you high and fast due to San Jose, Oakland air traffic and volume of arrivals. You have to be ready for the slam dunk because it's coming. You need to be stable at 1000 ft, no less than 500 ft, landing flaps and engines spooled up. It takes anywhere from 6 to 8 seconds to get thrust from idling engines.
Quite often crossing over/abeam the airfield on a downwind track at 11,000 feet when suddenly cleared for the slam dunk visual; often with a requirement to turn inside traffic on a straight in.
I flew the 787 as a Captain based in KSFO for several years. The 787 is very, very similar to the 777 and the training to move from one to the other is a short course primarily focused on differences and limitations. Our procedures prohibited the use of Flight Level Change (“FLCH”) below a certain altitude. The HOLD mode was well understood but there were still several recorded incidents in which FLCH and HOLD were used. This accident changed everything. The recalcitrant pilots that had flown older aircraft had been holding on to “Level Change” and “Vertical Speed” (“VS”) and seemed to have a great reluctance to use the latest technology to use LNAV and VNAV modes. In fact, among those of fully bought in to the GPS based LNAV/VNAV paradigm, the “V/S” was short for “Very Seldom” as was something that we typically were reluctant to use because of the lack of speed protection. FLCH was generally considered to be a mode that carried a number of threats and was only used with a high emphasis on strict CRM protocols. The Vertical Navigation mode provided all of the speed protections as long as the Auto Throttles were left engaged. This accident is a case study in poor training, a lack of system knowledge and awful CRM. My briefing about missed approach was that any pilot or qualified jumpseater should not be reluctant to call for a missed approach. The third pilot was probably the only one with complete situational awareness and should have called for a missed approach the moment he pushed up the throttles. Such a waste.
that's what i dont get, the whole point of him being there was exactly so that shit didnt happen. how the hell did he miss so many problem, or worse, saw them but didnt realize how bad they really were and decided to just watch and talk about it later... i dont blame the pilot in training, he was doing what he thought was right at the moment, the fact the other pilots just allowed him to err this much(specially his instructor) really baffles me.
@@marcosdhelenolack of communication. Pilot flying switched modes, didn’t verbalize. You try sitting in a cockpit trying to notice one little switch change out of the hundreds in front of you. Communication is so important. But instructor should have advised a go around way sooner. Once again, PF didn’t verbalize his confusion or nerves, giving instructor less reaction time. PF also was worried about passing his line training rather than safety alone, might be reason for no go around despite being the only one to know the true gravity of the situation. 90% PF’s fault I’d say. 10% instructor and RF. They can’t know until it’s communicated, they’d have to be super super tuned in to notice. Considering 10 hours of smooth flying, circadian low, and lack of communication, you can’t put the blame on instructor and RF.
@@MentourPilot Thank you for your hard work. I am from Madeira Island from Portugal and there have been 2 accidents from TAP Air Portugal and SATA in 1977 happening in the span of a single month in the Island's airport which I would love if they were explored and explained by you. The runway was closed and extended after these accidents. The airport is still known for being difficult to land at.
I was living in Chengdu, China when this crash occurred. I believe the two passengers who died were Chinese students going to the USA to study. I recall the details because a lot of my students were travelling, that year, for hoildays / study in the USA. I was worried for my student's safety. It was common to fly across China to South Korea and then take a flight to USA from there. The cabin crew hit the runway and some survived!
I love your videos and especially the insights into pilot training and the remediations that happen after accidents. They've actually made me feel safer as a passenger. Thank you!
As a nuclear Reactor Operator it is instilled in all of us to follow the procedures until you find yourself outside the parameters established during that procedure. Your descriptions are phenomenal & very clear explanations were given regarding the system parameters & settings, very well done, thank you
I’m 34 years old! I have always been terrified to fly my entire life! I started watching your videos a few years back and I’ve flown 4 times with no fear because of your videos! Thank you!
Just the opposite here. How could 4 pilots not be aware of what was likely to happen, then waste time after the crash reading a checklist? It sounds as if this happened in the Metaverse with Bill Gates having codied the bot pilots.
This video completely changed my understanding of this incident. The level of detail that your videos dive into is well above that of many other channels and the graphics and explanations are super clear. Great video!
You’re definitely not wrong about the circadian rhythm. I worked overnights at a casino for 6 years. I always told new people, “you will always be at least a little tired working this shift. You will never feel completely rested.”
Unfortunately, I was at SFO that day and watched this accident happen in real time. It was a gorgeous day and I had just dropped a friend off at the airport and decided to do some airplane watching from the observation deck. I had been watching planes land and take off for about 30 minutes when I caught eye of the Asiana flight. From my perspective I could not tell anything was wrong until the impact with the sea wall. I watched the impact and the airplane tumble down the runway. I was using my binoculars and also my telephoto lense on my camera. It was terrible to witness and at first I thought I could not believe what I was looking at. To witness a commercial plane of that size crash and almost cartwheel down the runway was unbelievable. I stood there in disbelief with other people who were plane spotting and watched the emergency response to the accident. A SFO police officer came to the platform and asked if any of us saw the accident and, of course, we all did. We were asked to write a statement of what we witnessed and to provide any photo documentation or recordings of the accident which I gladly complied with. It was a sad and tragic ending of what was a beautiful day in the Bay Area and I found myself not able to concentrate for days afterward.
Oh, a pilot's, and especially a training pilot's perspective on these incidents is so insightful. I remember when your channel was not about incidents, but general aviation education but goodness, you convey the incidents so well.
Well, one can learn a lot from these mishaps. Things like over reliance on technology, why things like checklists and CRM are so important, and things like a lack of training. It is all teachable moments and Petter has a way of making sure that those of us who aren't pilots understand the things that pilots have to deal with.
I’m 43 years old and have been terrified of flying all my life and have never been in an aeroplane at all. I started watching your videos and due to the information you give and a very supportive other half I took my first holiday on a plane last year (2 hour flight). I’ve now been on holiday 4 times on planes so cannot thank you enough for giving me the confidence and freedom to fly; you have changed my life. My last flight was the longest I have been on 4 hours from Turkey to England on a 737-800. On that flight home I was on row 2 and saw the pilot leave the cabin and talk to the cabin crew, get some snacks and re-enter the cockpit. While I’m cruise I’m now really relaxed as from your videos I understand that being high up gives us options should anything happen. However when the captain did this I became nervous again as I remembered what happened on the German wings flight many years ago where to do-pilot locked everyone out of the cabin with disastrous consequences. What has changed from a procedure process to protect against this reoccurring? Many thanks
After germanwings accident ,airlines put some extra rules to their cockpit procedures. When one of the pilots wants to use toilet or lieve the cockpit to stretch the legs for example, there must be a cabin crew inside the cockpit during flight crew absence.
Though Germanwings probably could’ve been prevented had people learned from the crash of LAM Mozambique Flight 470 where the captain locked out the first officer and done the same thing. Ironically, LAM already had that policy of having a flight attendant come in when one needed to leave the cockpit. It just wasn’t followed the day of that crash. Germanwings didn’t have that policy at all until that crash.
I'm 61. I've flown a few times (and aged a decade each time). But with what I've found on this channel, I'm glad I stopped. I NO longer trust humans to manage such intricate, massive machines.
AFAIK, the most important point was to enhance the monitoring of the mental status of pilots, both at the time of employment and during the career. Cabin crew in the cockpit or not, the most important thing is to not have rogue pilots there. But it is impossible to find all. We must trust a lot of people in society, we cannot have someone monitoring everyone who has a job where he easily could cause fatal harm. The truck driver should not suddenly drive on the sidewalk. The military officer should not suddenly blow up his platoon. The doctor should not kill his patients.
I was a flight attendant for Emirates then. We were supposed to take off from San-Fran 3 hours after the crash but instead of getting a pick up call at the hotel, we got a note under our door to say the SFO airport is closed. First thing I did was turn on the TV and there it was, the accident. Lucky that most of the people escaped safely, I can only imagine what the ATC had to deal with for the remainder of the day. Our 14hr flight turned into 26 hours inside the aircraft due to taking off with minimum fuel for the only available shorter runway, then going to Seattle for refueling. Surprisingly it was the quietest longhaul flight ever, I think the pax were so terrified and exausted with all the delays, we all just wanted to get home.
Regarding the controversy about a passenger being run over: this happened as the airport firetruck was maneuvering to aggressively fight the fire due to a lack of clarity if passengers were still on board the aircraft. There were several feet of foam now surrounding the aircraft, obscuring the previously visible body, which unfortunately was run over. It may not have been marked with a cone due to how quickly it became covered and how close it was to the flaming aircraft on arrival of this truck. Autopsy found a lack of dust, smoke, water, or foam in the lungs of the victim, indicating her death preceded the arrival of firefighters. Of note, the two ejected fatalities were the only two passengers not wearing seatbelts. Even if injured, you can survive this severity of impact in a modern plane....but not if you get thrown hundreds of feet down the runway.
@@unvergebeneid hate for rules! I saw it so many times! People put the seatbelt, then after cabin crew inspection, they disengage it and proudly says: "nobody can tell me what to do, I'm a free man!"
@@MT-it9qt The statement you reference is from 2013, years prior to the final NTSB report, when there was a lack of clarity. There is often much less coverage of the final reports than the sensational early news, such as her being "run over while alive", so it makes sense for many to continue to hold the initial belief. "Significantly, neither report noted visible dust, dirt, debris, or fire fighting foam in the trachea or lung tissues of the deceased" This is in reference to the autopsy reports of both passengers 41B and 41E (Ye Meng Yuan) Survival Factors Group Chairman's Factual Report, Exhibit No. 6-A, Section 8.2 Fatalities, pages 59-60. NTSB File DCA13MA120
I’m guessing that this incident had most of the crew and passengers survive because of the low speed and relatively slow decent rate. Being the end of the flight, the plane probably had much less fuel in it. That being said, I can only imagine what it must have felt like to be those that were ejected out the back when the tail broke off. I’m happy for those that survived… but the amount of lasting mental and physical trauma from something like that would probably be career ending for most.
@@mysterymete Quoting the video: "One of the firefighting vehicles unfortunately later ran over one of the ejected passengers, who was lying on the ground, covered in firefighting foam, but the investigation later showed, that the passenger was already deceased at that point." At first, I also had the initial thought, that they'd run over a survivor, but luckily that wasn't the case.
@@komet5420 Well, it is indeed 190.7 km/h, a good car speed on German autobahns. I wouldn't expect to survive getting out of the car at that speed. Obviously nothing was in their way, so they probably landed on the green next to the runway
6:59 as someone who drives overnight constantly I know exactly what you mean. Nothing like starting to drive, seeing the sun rise, then seeing the sun set, then seeing the sun rise again in one non stop trip.
As someone who suffers from Non-24, the whole concept of a circadian rhythm fascinates me. I never would have thought that a pilot that got a nap during the flight would still be fatigued because it was 3am back home. Thanks for the simple, succinct explanation of the circadian low's impact on flight crews.
Do you not have a rhythm? I also have non 24 but I still have a rhythm of approx 25 hours, if I deviate from that rhythm I experience symptoms of fatigue, insomnia and digestive complications among other things. Do you force a 24 hour routine even though you have non 24? My doctor attempted to treat my conditions with 24 hour routine and melatonin however my body couldn't cope with it long term. IME there is no real treatment for Non 24 and CFS/ME.
I just found out about non-24 because of this comment and it's quite terrifyingly accurate. At the same time I would also look into things causing delayed Melantonin release like ADHD. Non-24 would describe perfectly how I felt and still sometimes feel but I've still been able to help myself to fit in with a relatively normal sleep schedule.
@@netyr4554 In my twenties, I figured out I had a rhythm of about 26 hours. But it has changed over time. I'm 50 now and whatever rhythm I used to have has completely shorted out. I've always been naturally nocturnal so adjusting my bedroom to simulate the moment of sunrise (instead of sunset like bedrooms are supposed to be) helps me to sleep when I need to in order to fit a 24-hour routine, but in general I have to be completely exhausted before my body will allow sleep. (Posted at 3:04am local time, and I am absolutely wide awake and doing the laundry.)
@@the_bottomfragger It was only a couple of years ago that I learned it had a name. I've since done a lot of reading on Non-24 and sleep/sleeplessness in general, and learned a lot about myself in the process. It's really helped me to embrace it and do a better job of fitting my life into my natural sleep pattern (such as it is) instead of trying to force my sleep pattern into an artificial schedule.
@@tvdan1043 Uhm, there was quite a bit of research here proving that everyone gravitates to a 25-26 hour sleep cycle without external influence and it is perfectly normal. I expect that perhaps it is simply to give us more flexibility in adjusting our schedules by giving us an extra 90 minute cycle of alertness if we need it. Of course, that likely means that your body is less responsive to the external influence of blue light and so on that help adjust us to a shorter cycle and induce sleep but there are many other influences too. You are simply reverting to the natural sleep cycle that everyone undergoes when hidden from the sun/regular day cycle of sleeping when your body and mind are tired instead of because it is late.
No matter what, landing and taking off always gives me chills…. So sad that this happened in my hometown SF. We rarely have accidents and this was a bone chiller!
Same. I dont relax til we are up and cruising after takeoff, and again after we land and the plane is rolling and staying parallel with the edge of the runway
This was very saddening news for Asiana. After this incident, the Korean government banned Asiana from flying to SFO for 45 days and recruited Akio Yamamura from All Nippon Airways as their Safety Chief Officer. The captain and the instructor captain were initially transferred to groundwork, but they were fired on 2014/07/02.
@@erischaot not quite sure about that, it was an accident with passenger fatalities that was 100% due to multiple pilot errors, including grave ones like failing to go around when it was clearly indicated. After that, it's rather difficult to justify letting these pilots fly for your airline again - what if something happens again, and it comes out that the pilots had previously already been the cause of a fatal accident? The airline's reputation would be just gone.
It's interesting that they fired them. I hope there was some further factors other than the accident influencing that decision, since purely from this description it seems like some additional training could have made them both safe flight crew. In a way, fear of repercussions seems to have played a part in this accident, at least implied by Mentour Pilot. (Four red lights resulting in a fail, adding stress to the pilot.) Firing the pilots likely increases such stress on the other flight crews.
I am not a fan of toxic work environments, but I guess I feel like commercial airline pilots have to be held to a different standard. Particularly in regards to not being easily stressed or flustered, or needing to be reassured or coddled. They need to be able to handle the pressure of "if I make a mistake I will get in trouble."
I’m not sure how I feel about firing the guy who had 30 previous hours on type, but the instructor pilot with 3,200 hours? Yeah, he should not have let it get this far…
Your crash videos are the best on the Internet. Your ability to explain what is happening and why gives a much clearer picture. This develops a more sympathetic view of what the pilots are up against. Your graphics are outstanding. I now know what PAPI lights look like.
overconfidence in automation, combined with overconfidence on part of the PF in his check pilot to call him out on mistakes, combined with fear on all of them to show weakness (a common thing in Asian pilots especially) combined with no doubt the check pilot not wanting to fail the student by taking over at a critical moment and correcting mistakes.
@@jwenting (and Penny Lane) This was the check-pilot's first flight as a check-pilot. When things start to go sideways, the decision whether to let the PF (Pilot Flying) continue to fly the plane or to jump in and take over is a tricky one -- it's kind of a balancing act. In this case, no doubt due to lack of experience as a check-pilot, he waited too long to jump in and take over.
@@EvoraGT430 Well, according to this video, there were no GPWS warnings, just a stall warning chime at the very last minute, and as soon as that sounded, the check pilot pushed the throttles forward (but by then it was too late).
I can't believe you made this video. I had to present this during my ATPL ground school classes only a month ago and I was going to ask you to make a version but I didn't think you would. Really tragic set of circumstances but I'm really looking forward to seeing how you've broken this one down and your thoughts. Thanks Petter 😁
Good video once again, well explained what happened! As a pilot I would like to say that it doesn't matter what kind of speed protection is available in an airplane in the way you operate the airplane. It is the pilots responsibility to fly a safe airspeed, no matter what. The speed protection system is a last defense against stalling, it is not the other way around. The most important thing is what Mentour also said: keep flying manually, also with A/T disengaged from time to time!
Two corrections. 1: According to the San Mateo County Coroner's report, the student lying in grass near the runway was alive when she was run over by a fire truck. Tragically she was killed by the fire truck. 2: Per helmet and truck videos from the scene, she was initially not covered in firefighting foam. One or more firefighters saw her prior to the foam application and waved a truck around her, assuming she was deceased. A maneuvering truck ran her over a short time later. Her name was Ye Mengyuan and she was 16 years old. Respectfully, the video should be corrected.
On July 19, 2013, the San Mateo County Coroner's office determined that Mengyuan was still alive before being run over by a rescue vehicle, and was killed by blunt force trauma. On January 28, 2014, the San Francisco city attorney's office announced its conclusion that the girl was already dead when she was run over. It's beyond horrible, but I hope that the latter conclusion is correct. Because otherwise it's even more horrible.
@@gregsomlai297 It's horrendous in both scenarios. I mean even if she was dead, imagine losing your baby girl in a plane crash, only to receive her with a crushed skull because emergency responders didn't show any care for her remains. The fire department knew where she was and didn't even have the basic decency to ensure no damage would come to the body. Everything about it is heartbreaking.
That cartwheel in the intro led me to believe there'd be no survivors, but the things during the video you mentioned about the thoughts of the pilots suggested otherwise. Something like this happens and only three people don't make it. That plane is an incredible piece of engineering.
And 2 of those passengers who didn't make it only died because they were not wearing their seatbelt. The NTSB investigation concluded that they would almost certainly have survived with minimal injuries had they been wearing their seatbelt as required, as did the people who were sitting right beside them. The other passenger who died was apparently killed during the impact with the seawall as one of the aft exit doors behind her was separating from the aircraft, struck by a piece of it.
when it happened, there was a lot of disbelief that the plane had cartwheeled, especially as it was reported as flipped, then someone came forward with a video
@@vbscript2 You mean the two that got thrown onto the runway when the tail broke off? I don't know if what you're saying makes any sense. They got thrown out of a plane when the tail section broke off. Would seatbelts really have helped?? Maybe. I was actually wondering why all the crew that got flung out of the tail section survived, yet none of the passengers that got flung out survived. Maybe seat belts were the difference. But, still, what you're saying doesn't make any sense, because you said that they would have survived, just like the people beside them that were wearing seatbelts. This makes zero sense - the people right beside them did not get sucked out of the airplane when the tail broke off! That's why they survived. They survived because they were not sucked out/flung out onto a runway, not because they were wearing seatbelts.
Thank you for this. I remember the first thing that I thought when watching this accident was how 3 experienced pilots in the cockpit all failed to recognize the approach was low and slow - it seemed like the most basic error, something that struck me from what I remember in my PPL lessons 25 years ago, compounded by the pilot flying pulling up without increasing power. But your explanation explained the chain of events and errors that led to the descent going wrong so clearly. You also explained the technical aspects of the way the B777 systems so well, and how they contributed to this sequence of events - this was exceptional. So much I want to ask, I want so much more detail. From the media here in Korea, couple things I remember from the aftermath - there was a lot of talk from Asiana about how the ILS approach was not operating, but also that the autothrottle had not worked properly - if I remember right, this was also something that the flight crew all mentioned in interviews after the accident. The detail you shared about the training session which did not adequately explain what protections the autothrottle actually offered, and the misconceptions the pilots were left with (not realizing the protection they were counting on did not exist in certain modes) was really telling. Discussion on pilot forums after the crash mentioned the way both major Korean airlines relied so much on automation. I remember reading an account of a foreign training captain working here who failed a senior Korean captain on a simulator flight for not being able to handle a visual approach, requesting vectors etc. because of this reliance. It was known here that the PF had very few hours on the B777, but your little detail about how he was apprehensive about flying a visual approach on his first line check was striking. You also handled the issue of the hierarchical culture that exists here very well - I have lived here for so long, and it really was/is a powerful force everywhere (business, medicine, law) and I can only imagine way this must manifest itself among commercial pilots, especially with so many former military pilots in the senior ranks. It might be too easy a conclusion to draw, but it surely was a factor. Thank you again. Was on the OZ flight to and from SFO last month, now OZ 212, operated by an A350, landed on 28L, I think. Brought a few small boxes of chocolates for the cabin crew - just a little thing, just wanted to show some appreciation
The most important thing is to always check the thrust and height. These pilots should never fly again as they are not able to understand these basics.
As a Bay Area resident who's landed (as a passenger on SFO's 28L many times), I also have been waiting for this analysis. It was worth the wait. Mentour did a great job.
I have been looking forward to your perspective on this incident. It's fairly fresh in my memory and it's interesting to learn the details again. Also, these animations are getting next-level! Keep up the great work!
Hi, your ANALYSES of these flight associated disasters are marvelous, mind blowing and the animations are ultra high quality. Wishing you a more prosperous future with more innovations and more and more sponsors too!
I live in the SF Bay Area (near the oakland airport). We have VERY busy skies as there are three major airports around the bay. I actually LOVE the landings at SFO and OAK because you descend over the bay in a nice easy decline. Unlike other city airports where you are flying in circles around the city to get to the airport. I remember the day this happened and is seemed SO odd as the landings are so calm, typically. Everyone was talking about it and how strange it was to mess up a landing here. I am not any sort of pilot, so watching your video helped me understand what could lead to this.
I remember this really well. Was astonished at the carnage BUT also very surprised with how many survived. I MUST SAY, your videos..editing, graphics, etc..the whole enjoyable “experience” is like that of a movie, OR quality documentary. Seriously top-notch stuff! Great work..
Petter, it's not easy to explain the automatic systems in airliners like the 777, but you make it sound easy. Another factor that may have affected the communication between the pilots is the culture often seen in East Asia. Authorities are highly respected, and even when the trainee considered the line instructor to be one of the better to work with, there might have been a barrier.
The automated systems take some time to get used to, yes. And usually they do a pretty good job, but when used incorrectly (like here) they can hide serious problems until it's way too late. I've done quite a bit (as in 2000 hours or so over the years) of flying 777s (and far more in other Boeing and Airbus aircraft) in Microsoft flight simulator and X-Plane and that's what I learned (and that's just counting the quality addons, not the stock models which are much simplified). Sadly my medical history prevents me from ever getting a pilot license, and has prevented me from pursuing my childhood dream of becoming an airline pilot ever since failing my service medical 35 years ago, or I'd quite likely be that senior long haul pilot by now flying a 777 or similar.
The quality of your videos are simply exceptional. I've only found your channel recently and have binge watched every one of your aircraft accident series! Honestly they are far better than any other documentary series on plane disasters I've seen on TV in literally every way, even the recreation of the events using MFS is just perfectly done along with the narration (which you do brilliantly). I know you are an experienced Captain, but it is a rare talent to be able to communicate your knowledge on aviation as well as you do which can be understood by the average person. Thank you for putting the time and effort in to create these videos, it must take a lot of work to put together but it's clearly shown! Love your content, appreciate everything you do 🙏
SFO is my home airport and on this day I was flying out to south America that afternoon. My parents were taking me to sfo that morning shortly after this crash. We watched the aftermath of the crash and sfo was left with one working runway that day. Smoke was visible for miles the casualties were low given the number of passengers and for that we were grateful. Thank you for the detailed explanation of this incident, your description of what happened was very helpful in my understanding of this unfortunate event. Please keep up your good work. I am so appreciative of your channel. Particularly in this incident
I always told my first officers that when high and fast, the landing gear was the ‘great equalizer’ and to not be afraid to lower it earlier than normal because that would improve the rate of descent.
I was just rewatching the past episodes, just saw everglades and helios and the recent emirates. So glad there's a new one. Even though I don't fly, I find your videos really comforting and informative. Also could you do a video on the first commercial around the world flight? I recently read an article about it and found it fascinating. Thanks for your content ❤
Here’s a list of what I’ve already learnt: 1. Flight hours ≠ Experience (Someone can have thousands of hours of flying experience and still suck at hand flying the aircraft) 2. Severe over reliance on automated systems (2 we’ll trained pilots didn’t check that their autopilot, which will indicate they’re in the wrong setting) 3. Degradation of pilots hand flying skills (Pilots are increasingly becoming just another computer operator, that’s a really bad thing. Being a pilot used to mean someone with a great and unique skill, now it’s being eroded) Here's a list of more things I learnt from this video: + When in doubt, go around (I always joked around calling this "Option C". Going around my flight school saying, "When in doubt choose C". Guess jokes can sometimes save lives.) + Airspeed and Altitude are life. Basically, monitoring everything that starts with the letter A
I've come to watch quite a few of these accident report videos now (cause I'm addicted), and speed management seems to come back all the time. I know there are all sorts of complex mechanisms, procedures and threads of events explaining those accidents, but to a newbie like me it always sounds crazy that it's not the first thing you're gonna keep an eye on, that and altitude.
See, the whole point is that Asiana taught them to rely on automated systems as much as possible, and in fact, you can see this in the world of cars, too. There are Tesla drivers who have been _killed_ because they let the car drive itself, thinking it was fully 100% equipped to handle everything without the "driver" (or, rather, passenger-behind-the-wheel) needing to monitor anything. In both cases, this is _not_ what the designers of these vehicles intended. Just like with the Tesla, aircraft will have auto-pilot, but as the pilot flying, it is still one's responsibility to monitor the state of the aircraft and be aware of what it's doing at all times instead of just assuming the computer is functioning properly, or in this case, as intended.
@@Dhalin Basically, they need to practice enough flying the plane with all the auto stuff shut off so they are proficient enough to actually fly the plane.
@@mrapp8918 more accurately, it’s about energy management in all stages of flight,and the complexity of modern aircraft modes makes it difficult for pilots weaned on automatics-all-the-time to understand what’s going on in stressfull situations to catch up with the aircraft.
Sad for the loss of 3 lives. But I'm amazed how incredibly strong B777 is. One of my favourites along with B747 and A380. Excellent work Petter and Mentour team.👍🏻
Petter is an extraordinary pilot and teacher at the same time. I'm amazed at his ability to explain complex subjects in simple words. I'm amazed at his ability to always go one step forward to respond the questions I'm wondering about in his stories.
Yet another absolutely outstanding presentation. One of the very best video presenters and video content providers on TH-cam. Thank you SO much for your posts.
Mayday did a good program about this accident, too. Investigators later discovered that in all of the captain's flight hrs, he had fewer than 100 hrs of hand flying, which ties in perfectly with Captain John Hansen's comments (Captain of Northwest Flight 85) that 'with all the automated cockpits, hand flying is in danger of becoming a lost art.' I thought pilots were up there because of their flying skills, decision making, etc, not for their being able to understand the dozens of different configurations that can change because of a wrong switch throw.
Recently, just a couple of days ago, a Latam flight went into an unprecedented hail storm in Paraguay skies and suffered severe damage on the fuselage. Also, it is reported that they lost power on one of the engines. But the pilots managed to land the aircraft safely. This incident strongly reminded me of the Taca Airlines incident in 1988, that Petter described so well in his channel.
These pilots in Paraguay had no business flying into weather like this. When Taca 110 happened, on board weather radar was not very good. But today, there is no excuse.
@@Powerranger-le4up It wasn't the water - at least in liquid form. It was the ice from the hail that jammed the water release mechanism in the engines. At least that's what I recalled it being. They tested the engines with basically infinite water and they had no problem.
I have never wanted to be a pilot, like looking at planes in the sky & also like flying. But never think much about planes or flying. One of your videos popped up on my feed yest. And I have to say I’m really enjoying watching them. Just shows what a good job your doing! Thank you for the uploads, you have a new subscriber who’s delighted they came across your channel 😉
I had learned: 'If in doubt, no doubt' (meaning cut the main chute and open the reserve, that was in sky-diving, years ago!). Your channel is very interesting for nerdy people like me, but with no connection to flying a plane. The technical details are not always easy to understand, but I think eventually, after binging a certain number of episodes and googling a bit, at least this episode was mostly understandable to me (I do work daily with geographical data and some automation, so I guess it helps a bit maybe). Kudos to your channel and thanks a lot to you and your team for the amazing work! Utrolig bra jobba, hilsen fra Norge 👍
I remember when this happened. I lived in the Bay Area at the time. It was a sobering reminder when I was flying home from a business trip within days of this incident and the wreckage of the plane was still sitting in a place where it was fully visible from my window during landing at SFO. This accident stuck with me because I'll never forget that image.
@The Australian Deplorable, actually these seemingly opposite ideologies are just the same thing viewed from different directions. If unsafe is more profitable than safe then so it will be. You need quality people and freedom per se is not enough to give you that.
This is absolutely facinating! I'm learning a lot from you about managing my team in a high stress, high workload environment, with a lot of moving parts in play. I'm not flying a plane, but I can now identify things which contribute to keeping my team from crashing! Wellbeing and fatigue, team resource management, quality and type of training, situation awareness, task saturation and workload, attitude and culture, assumptions and misunderstandings, and procedures/policies. A huge thank you for making these videos.
@@seriouscat2231 A workers union. Its a sorry state when companies and managers don't invest in the wellbeing of their workforce. I hope you have a better experience in the future.
Another issue that many people that wouldnt recognize is the hierarchical style of speech used when speaking Korean. We covered it in my Korean linguistics class that many of the incidents in airlines stems from using Korean and not wanting to disrespect the older person or the person who has a higher job level. So the minute the student became the "captain" and the instructor became the monitor, it already caused issues. The captain not expressing his feelings is more related to 눈치 and wanted to save face
I got out of the habit of watching your videos, a few months now, but this one caught my attention since I live near here. And wow, your level of immersion and storytelling gets better and better. Kudos to you and your team.
Thank you for your amazing videos! I've been an aviation since I was a child. I'm from Canada, my Grandparents owned a home very close to Canadian Forces Base, 8 Wing Trenton. CFB Trenton is Canadas largest Airforce Base in Canada. I can remember the old DC-9's, they were so loud and they would train over the Bay of Quintie. They would fly so close to the water, it was an amazing site! It was also home to the old C-130H. CFB Trenton is home for the C-17A and the C-130J. CFB Trenton also has a SQN of F/A-18C's. These plan have been stationed at CFB Trenton since 9/11. I have to admit that after watching your video's I'm now absolutely terrified of flying!! Thanks once again for your content!
Mentour pilot and Mr.Ballen are the best story tellers on TH-cam. Thanks to you and the people behind the scenes for producing such high quality content 🤙🏽
That's pretty spectacular set of misundestandings and errors. But it's also amazing that despite all that happened to the plane, most of the passangers survived. Of course, that's not gonna make the famillies of the victims any happier, but at least a lot of other famillies were blessed to have ther loved ones alive. Great video, Peter!
Been a fan of you, Mentour Pilot, since around 2019. Whenever I have almost nothing to do I binge watch your series on airline incidents/accidents. I learn a lot about basic/moderate aircraft/aviation technicalities, although I seem to have no interest being a pilot in the future. 😅 You should do a video about the recent incident involving Korean Air Flight 631-the Airbus 330 that overshot the runway in Mactan Cebu International Airport-I’m from there, by the way 😁 but of course, let’s wait for the final report after investigations have been done.
Peter may be one of the best commercial pilots in the world, with all knowledge and repetition of procedures he gets with these videos...Ryan Air should be blessed to have him on...
@@MentourPilot the FMS helps you calculate the parameters it's a glorified calculator, - nothing assists your scan other than your MK1 eyeballs and competence (experience) as a pilot, I don't agree with current Flight deck design at all (instrumentation, presentation and displays) - If you "snapshotted" at 5 second intervals all the vital displayed parameters including a/t settings and then printed it out and had a chance over a coffee to think about it, away from the flight, you would have immediately noticed you were entering too low/slow, but no , humans cannot compete with even simple 16 bit processors when it comes to monitoring more than 10 inputs to their "scan"... This accident proves to me that humans are nearing their end of time as jet cockpit jockeys - unless some form of advanced "Ai" driven monitoring systems keeps a check on your handling - without upsetting OR controlling anything - just advising you there "may be" a problem.. If you were a fly on the wall in that situation in the jump seat, what would you have said, ???? I'd like to know, tell us please - would you have stepped in and kicked the thrust levers forward??????? I once flew with an ex-RAF (cold war) captain who said he would resort to using the fire axe if things got really bad :-)
@@MentourPilot I’ve been working on a little aviation alternate history series where I just change ONE thing and see what happens. Here’s the first: On that fateful day in March 1977, one of the fuel trucks at Los Rodeos is broken. Captain van Zanten decides to not wait for another truck, with the result that it's about 15% lighter. Everything else goes the same. KLM 4805 manages to lift off-but barely. The right main landing gear smashes into the Pan Am jet's first-class lounge, killing most of the occupants and seriously wounding the rest. The force of the impact tears the gear off and it falls on Pan Am 1736's left wing, tearing it off and pushing it down the runway, but saving the cabin from the force of the explosion of engine no. 1. The weight and drag of the right landing gear being gone forces KLM 4805 to roll to the left, and Pan Am 1736's vertical stabilizer slashes the underside of KLM's own left wing like a razor, severing hydraulic lines and ripping through the outboard fuel tank. Once clear of the Pan Am jet, KLM 4805's left wing almost hits the ground, and only full right rudder from Captain van Zanten manages to save it. The plane nearly stalls as it lifts off, due to the damage to the left wing, and is again saved just in time. Onboard Pan Am 1736, the clock is ticking. The first class lounge has been ripped open, but the main cabin is still sound. It's only a matter of time, however, before the fire eating its way through KLM's jet-fuel-soaked landing gear climbs to the stub of the left wing-and from there, to the fuselage and central fuel tank, spelling doom for the 300+ people on board. To make matters worse, a second fire breaks out in the remnants of the upstairs lounge, caused by sparking severed electrical wires. Most of the passengers are elderly, and the emergency exits on the left side of the aircraft are unusable. For the crew, this will be the evacuation of their lives. Six minutes after takeoff, the first MAYDAY call from KLM 4805 comes in-and for the first time, the Los Rodeos tower realizes to their horror that not one but _two _planes were in distress. The KLM flight crew, only just beginning to realize the extent of the damage to their plane, initially wanted to circle back and land at Los Rodeos-but Los Rodeos has only one runway, and between the burning wreck of Pan Am 1736, its evacuating passengers, the fire trucks, the ambulances, and their own ruined landing gear, that runway was completely unusable. They could either try for Las Palmas, or ditch in the sea. As KLM 4805 acknowledged the transmission, the ATC crew could hear the unmistakable sound of an uncontained engine failure. Engine no. 1 had ingested part of Pan Am's vertical stabilizer, damaging the fan disc beyond salvation. In the KLM cockpit, a grim mood reigned as the flight crew saw the enormity of the task in front of them. Engine no. 1 had failed and was spitting flame. Their left wing was bleeding jet fuel-fuel that could ignite at any time. Because of the severity of the tailstrike they had endured while rotating early, the crew was unable to pressurize the plane. Once at Las Palmas, they would have to belly-land their massive airliner, as their right main gear was completely gone. And, to top it all off, pressure in three out of their four hydraulic lines was steadily dropping. Soon, their aircraft would be all but uncontrollable. Captain van Zanten felt a cold chill run through him as he realized what he'd done. He had been rushing to get home to his wife. Now, he might never see her again-and his recklessness might have doomed hundreds of people to a fiery end. Somehow, he would have to fly his barely-controllable massive airliner to Las Palmas and belly land it. Soon, that cold chill was replaced by determination. He had gotten them into this mess, and he would get them out of it. If anyone could do it, it was him-one of the best pilots in KLM. And if he died, that would be alright-so long as his passengers and crew didn't have to pay for his mistake. They were going to Las Palmas. And all because of a broken fuel truck.
@@starwarzchik112 and don't forget that if PanAm had taken their assigned exit from the runway they'd not have been there when KLM was taking off. Had they called in their decision to not take their assigned exit KLM would have waited. Had the tower crew known that the exit they assigned to PanAm was suboptimal for a 747 they'd have assigned another exit and not authorised KLM. Had ATC procedures been the same at Tenerife as at Schiphol van Zanten would not have misunderstood the permission to line up as permission to take off (at Schiphol those were always the same, when given permission to enter the runway you have permission to take off unless explicitly told otherwise). Had the tower crew not been distracted by the football match on the radio they might have been more observant. Had there not been overcrowding at the airport because of a lot of diversions due to bomb threats at other airports PanAm would not have been there at all. Had the weather been different the tower crew and the KLM crew would have seen the PanAm aircraft still on the runway. That accident was such a bucket list of bad things happening all at once, yet still van Zanten is vilified for it despite doing everything according to his training and experience, when IMO the main direct culprit was the PanAm crew who failed to notify ATC of their decision to use a different runway exit from the one they were assigned. But as so often there's not a single factor that was solely responsible, nor a single person. Everyone involved made mistakes, whether through complacency, lack of experience, overconfidence, or distractions is irrelevant to the final outcome and only important to the people making recommendations to prevent similar accidents happening in the future (which after Tenerife meant mainly worldwide standardisation of ATC phraseology and procedures, and probably a more rapid introduction of ground radar at fog prone airports. And all of that failed to prevent a very similar accident (though luckily with less loss of life because the aircraft were smaller) at Milan Linate years later when a SAS MD80 series airliner taking off slammed into a business jet that had entered the runway without permission, again in fog, after getting lost on a taxiway.
You did a very good job covering the pilot aspects of this incident! There is one thing I was kind of surprised that you didn't mention, though: seat belts. In this incident where a plane slammed into a seawall and the whole cabin ultimately burned down and all but 3 of the 300+ people on board survived... the NTSB investigation concluded that two of the passengers who died only died - or sustained any serious injury at all - because they were not wearing their seat belt during the landing. The other passenger seated directly beside those two girls in the same group of three seats sustained only minor injuries. Their seats were not significantly damaged and their seat belts were found unbuckled with no signs of damage or use during the impact. Seat belt requirements during takeoff and landing are there for a reason. People, please wear them. These two school-aged girls would almost certainly still be alive today had they been wearing their seatbelts. (One of these two is also the one who was later hit by a fire truck, however, NTSB's conclusion from the evidence was that she was already dead from injuries sustained during being ejected from the aircraft before being struck by the fire truck.)
These videos are incredible. The amount of work u put into these, the knowledge you've accumulated, and your gift at explaining these in layman's terms, astounds me. You sir are gifted, thank u!!
Hey! I'm a new sub but I've been watching for over a year now. I really appreciate the work you put into you channel especially considering you work as a pilot meanwhile. Your videos have been improving more and more for example new animations, sounds etc. I hope you continute your great youtube journey and inform even more interested people!
@@hauntedshadowslegacy2826 Exactly... when wheels snapped I was like "yea, its over :(" and then even worse things happened. I was surprised in a good way!
I can’t believe pilots have to go through this kind of stress just to land an airplane. Monitoring so many systems at a go. Thumbs up for the great work they do transporting us to and from our various destinations!
This starts right in flight school. Landing is a critical phase of flight with the highest workload. Since it's at the end of the flight the flight crew are more likely to be tired.
Wow, thank you for this video, I was totally gripped by it even though I could only understand 90% of your aviation field. I just love the passion and I know this will be very useful for people who are learning this field. Mental, I love 100% of a video where I understood 90%. Thanks man, and these are very well produced.
When I started my PPL training, I was told from the very start that every approach is an approach to a go-around, with an option to land. At that flight school, we had a number of instructors and initially, everyone rotated through all of them (not a practice I find very sensible). When I was on an early occasion well off the centreline on final approach, I called going around, and the instructor I had at that time barked "You don't have the experience to make that decision, I HAVE CONTROL!" He then performed what I can only describe as aerobatics to get lined up - at low speed and low altitude, which scared the hell out of me - and landed hard just over halfway down the runway. I JAMMED my feet on the brakes and switched off the mags (my side, so he could not reach them), and got out and walked back to the light school. I never flew with that incompetent hour-builder again and was gratified to learn that he subsequently failed two simulator checkride interviews at minor airlines and gave up flying altogether. The next instructor I had was great at restoring my confidence (and was horrified at the actions of that one who had overridden my go-around call, reinforcing that I had made the correct call - both in the go-around and in refusing to ever fly with the previous instructor again). He had me solo within another 2 hours flying (much to my amazement, when he had me taxi back as normal after a full-stop landing, but stop and drop him off at the school on the way past), and I stuck with him through the rest of my PPL training. YOU CAN ALWAYS GO AROUND, and the call can be made by ANYONE and MUST be followed IMMEDIATELY - you can sort out afterwards why you had to spend another few minutes in the circuit pattern, but in the air on final approach is not the time or place!
I’ve heard that mantra of “landing is optional”. Like people blindly quoting “aviate, navigate, communicate”, it is badly used and, in most cases rubbish.
@@EdOeuna The only cases I know of where it is genuinely rubbish are those to one-way airstrips, where you are committed from anything from a few hundred yards to several miles out. Those airstrips usually require a separate endorsement for each such airstrip and are definitely not for the faint-hearted. A few in the Alps, Himalayas, and some bush strips in other mountainous regions are like that, but they are very much the exception, not the rule.
@@phillee2814 - other than briefing a missed approach, landing is always option number 1. I don’t know where this phrase of “missed approach with an option for a landing” came from but it is seriously backwards. I’m not suggesting, like in your training experience, that you should do everything possible to get the plane in the ground, but a stable approach always yields a good landing, ignoring 3rd party events like someone is slow to vacate the runway or windshear.
@@EdOeuna The point is the speed of reaction to a factor which causes a missed approach. If you are expecting it, it becomes automatic and you never need to shift any mental gears into going missed. How many times on this and other channels do we hear of missed approaches which should have been made but the pilot(s) were task focused on getting on the ground, even when all the red flags were present? We have to work with the brain we have, not the brain as we'd like it to be, and real human brains become more focussed on a task the more difficult it gets, so it is not unusual for judgement to become clouded and red flags ignored when the task becomes too difficult and all perception of external factors moves out of the range of attention the human brain can deal with - which goes into tunnel vision as tasks become more complex. To put it another way, it is hard to remember that you are intending to drain the swamp once you are up to your ass in alligators.
@@phillee2814 - I’ve recent discussed, on a similar channel to this, about pre- departure briefings. This other guy, a high time pilot apparently, told me that briefings were old fashioned and not necessary. If this sort of lazy approach is taken by pilots then I’m not surprised that similar lazy approaches are taken for arrival briefings. An arrival briefing should include what happens during a missed approach. After that the brief is all about how you’ll land the plane and where you’ll vacate, etc. All approaches should expect to land, because that’s the expectation. To brief that you’ll fly an approach and then fly the missed approach is wrong. You fly an approach and land, unless you bugger it up.
I started watching Your video last year Sir, i have to admit, one of the most technical and informative narrative report and detailed video, Its helps technical personal to realise how small things can make a big impact on the operation of flying machines or in the industry. I am a Control System Engineer and even not from Aviation industry but I do understand the sensor, transducer and system and after watching your video, I have gained alot more knowledge. I am a lecturer now a day and I have many apprentice and full time students that are going to be a Flught Engineer or Ground Engineer. So we teach them transducer and PLC and Microcontroller etc. Other college teach them all the aero dynamic and mechanical stuff. It's really helpful and I will encourge my Student to watch your Video. Thank you for your hard work and commitment toward Safety. I am same. Safety comes first for me all the time. Have a nice Sunday Morning All. Kind Regards Raghbir
Petter, in the beginning you make a remark about the flightcrew, that the pilot flying in training didn't remark about his insecurity, although he liked the pilot monitoring. Several years ago, a Dutch footballcoach became very famous in South Korea with the national team. One of his stories included the experience he had with junior and senior players. There was no criticizing of the senior colleagues, even though they still made mistakes. So, pilot flying was not ready telling of his insecurity because - probably - this seniority-thing.
I remember this. The first thing that stood out was that the ILS was not operational do to maintenance/construction. Gross incompetence. It's one thing that the trainee was in over his head with the visual approach, but for the experienced instructor to not realize that this approach was going badly from the get-go is really frustrating. Forget about hurting someone's feelings, he needed to take control of that plane or declare a go-around to try it again with better preparation. These things are always tough to watch when perfectly good airplanes are flown into the ground on a beautiful day.
So happy i found your channel.!! I never knew that I was a fan of aviation videos till I started watching your channel. The amount of detail and explanation you put into every video is amazing. Thanks for all the fascinating videos 🙏🏾
I didn’t think I stood a chance of grasping the pitch modes and [especially] the vertical speed concepts, but thanks to Petter’s excellent teaching skills, I was wrong, and I think I actually got it! Considering that I’m a singer and have zero math or science abilities, it is amazing that I can understand anything about flying at all. I look forward to the weekends bringing a new Mentour upload and learning something new.
Its OK Ms Jay, dont worry that you know nothing about flying....Im a harpist with 20,000 hours on a four octave wide body Salvi but here, by golly, we are all experts!
There are very few situations where it's advisable to delay an evacuation. Coming to a halt after cartwheeling across the runway happens to be very much not one of them.
I remember when this accident happened and how awful it was. I have NO aviation expertise, and you did a terrific job explaining the factors that led to this missed approach. I just can't understand why they didn't go around and try again, these are people's lives, and the stubbornness and foolishness is astounding. I've heard experienced aviation people say that you really only need the human pilot to take-off and land, the rest of the time the plane basically flies itself, because of all the advanced computers/autopilot.
Think of using cruise control on your car on a long highway trip. You turn on cruise control, you set the speed. If the speed limit changes, you change the speed. If the speed limit lowers while passing through a town, or a construction zone, you adjust the speed as needed. If someone said that the cruise control is controlling the speed of the car, that's a true statement but it's misleading if they do not include the fact that you are the one deciding what the speed should be at any given time. The cruise control has no way to know how fast you should be going at any point during the trip, you have to tell it. I'm surprised that these people that you know in aviation have made this misleading statement that pilots are not really needed except for takeoff and landing. During the entire flight the pilots determine the speed, altitude, heading, ascent and decent rate, all of which change several times during the trip. The autopilot has no way to know what speed, what heading, what altitude, etc. The pilots input this information into the autopilot throughout the flight. Without the pilots input the plane would fly in a straight line until it ran out of fuel. There are many other important activities that pilots do during flight. And if some problem occurs, the system just tells the pilots what the problem is, the pilot has to decide what to do about it. In theory all of this can be automated but it's not easy with current technology to program a computer to make all of the decisions that pilots make and use judgment to and handle unexpected situations. People will tell you this will change soon, but they have been saying that for years.
Not exactly. If you don't set up the pre calculated computer inputs the plane will make mistakes and your approach will be skewed out of kilter & you may be below the glidescope and crash.
I think it's the particular Asian culture that is the problem. The PF was so afraid of his superiors that his thinking froze. That, or the circadian low, or both. The last thing they want to do is to lose face. I thought I could discuss theology with a Chinese guy once, but he always immediately started attacking and shaming a position I didn't even hold, probably in fear that I would say something that would discredit some position he did hold.
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I'm a new sub, and a 21 year USAF veteran. I was also a Master Instructor in a Rated Flight Officer training unit. I only tell you that so I can say I have been so impressed with your videos and your ability to break down technical aviation concepts & terms in ways that even people with no flying background can understand. We would have been thrilled to have had you in our instructor cadre. Thanks for taking the time to debrief these events.
Thank you so much for those kind words. It means a lot, coming from someone with your background.
I have only ever flown a few times, mainly when I was younger. I'm not sure why I even started watching these videos, but I've been watching for many months. I can honestly say that, even though Petter does discuss a lot of crashes, he has a way to explain it in a way that I would feel safe if I ever do fly again. But he also explains things in a way that keeps my interest in something I never had much interest in.
@@AFloridaSon the hardest part of training a new instructor is teaching them to connect with students. Having experience is knowledge is one thing. Being able to deliver that knowledge and skill in a digestible and understandable way is a true skill. These presentations are great in both organization and deliver. If I was still Active Duty I would use some of these video to demonstrate how to break down technical details and how to present to a class.
How many thousand women and children did you bomb whilst serving in Luftfawaffer.?
Ohh, sorry, I mean usaf
@@splifstar85 personally? Zero. Friends and people I know? Also zero. How long did it take you to come up with pointlessly belligerent and rude comment for no reason whatsoever. Who taught you the poor manners to use someone else's TH-cam channel to push a persinal agenda? Also, learn to spell Luftwaffe. And acronyms are spelled using all capital letters. It's the little details that matter in public settings.
My apologies to the content creator that this interaction had to take place in their comment section.
There was a United holding short of the runway when this happened. Everyone on the left side witnessed the incident. After shutting down, the pilot personally walked through the plane talking to each passenger, to make sure they were mentally ok.
That’s really good leadership.
Pax on the right side be like "what's the hold up!?"
RIP is 🙏 Papa CHECK ✅ CHECK 1977
@@johny5400 Not warranted and in poor taste. I will be mortified watching a plane crash. Its good that the UA captain walked down the aisle comforting traumatized passengers. And believe me I am a certified pilot though not commercial rated.
@@gamernerd7139 what I said is that Americans probably need that talk…half of the nation is full of pussies. One has to go way more east to find strong people
@@johny5400 Oh good we found THE INTERNET BADASS!
As a retired 777 Captain, I am familiar with this accident. Once again your explanation and depiction of what happened is magnificient. This crew had many opportunities to go-around and never chose to do so. No justification whatsoever for what happened. When you go-around it takes longer to get to the gate and you make more money. There is no motivation to be a hero and land out of a bad approach.
The justification on the part of the Captain was to pass his line check and the workload. Ideally, the 3rd pilot should have called the go around due to the workload, but they were all reliant on the aircraft keeping speed.
A go-around is not a failed approach. A go-around is the proper corrective action of a failed approach. Anyone recognizing aircraft condition that is beyond acceptable parameters should be required by company policy and regulation to call out clearly “GO-AROUND”. They all failed this line check drastically.
@@mikefendel We used to brief an approach to a go-around, from which we might land if all went well.
@@EvoraGT430 Good Policy. So many folks feel a go-around is a failed approach. I always felt it was instead a successful go-around.
Oh yes there is. It's the old Chuck Yeagar mindset. Never saw ol' Chuck go around. Real pilots never go around. (Sarcasm intended.)
Two of the fatalities showed just how important seatbelts can actually be in a crash. The four flight attendants were seriously injured but survived because they were strapped in, while the two passengers were not wearing their seatbelts and died.
True, but these 2 pilots surely are never allowed to work on a commercial airline again?!?!
@@linussvensson8005 I am not a pilot or work in aviation industry, but I could imagine your pilot license will be revoked if your non compliant action lead to some deaths plus you lost an airplane.
I thought the teen girl survived until the fire department ran over her?
@gemini222 he said she was determined to have been dead before they ran her over :/
@@kinseybruno5920 but the county coroner determined she was alive in his report? Wierd?
I live in the Bay Area and remember this accident well. I will never forget the news crew at KTVU falling for and broadcasting a list of hoax names of the crew. Captain "Sum Ting Wong," "Wi Tu Lo," "Ho Lee Fuk," and "Bang Ding Ow." The levels of competency failure around this accident just kept compounding everywhere we looked. It was incredible.
Supposedly it was an FAA intern who gave the names to the TV station which is why they fell for it. Pretty sick humor.
honestly, Wi Tu Lo is brilliant
@@unugeorge It would be if people hadn't died in the accident.
@@StevePemberton2 I mean, I'm not so enlightened an individual that I didn't laugh. I laughed my ass off, largely at just how incompetent and hurried to get the scoop they were that they let such a blatant hoax go unvetted. But I'd rather it hadn't happened, I can't imagine being the family of the involved and seeing that. Or to be Asian and see that.
@@ProjectDv2 I tend to give the station a pass. Again they are talking to someone at the FAA (from what I understand) and they are given Asian sounding pilots names. I don't really expect them to stop and ponder the names.
I know what you are referring to when some hoax is put out and everyone up to AP and CNN fall for it. I just think this was something different, investigating an air crash with fatalities, who is going to suspect that someone at a reputable source is going to give them false names that are racist and lewd.
4 pilots and they still ran it into the ground in perfect conditions and a perfectly good plane.
They not flying they manipulating the controls to satisfy the computers guidance
Correct
My guess is, the crew did not pass the check…
5 pilots if you include the autopilot. Could be a case of too many cooks spoiling the broth.
Yea, good observation.
I actually was not expecting anyone to survive, especially those who were ejected
P
the ejected survivors probably hit the ground with the seats first and survived.
Well that’s only if the fire fighters don’t run you over
@@acidalex420 She was already dead
2 people died, I guess they were near the separated tail and got killed on impact
The third one died because she got crushed by a firetruck...
This one was really surprising for me. Perfectly good airplane, all that experience in the cockpit, perfect weather, perfect visibility, and still 4 fatalities. Wow.
It explains tragic Korean culture
Just bad work of clueless pilots.
The Titanic was a good ship and had a Good Captain, Perfectly good weather, Good Visibilty but still sank?
@@mus139 At least the Titanic didnt had an autopilot.
@@JCmultiverseExactly right. The "lying to save face" culture is cowardly, gets people killed, and is as severely outdated and dangerous as circumcising infants before they can make that decision for themselves.
I happened to be plane spotting at SFO and actually watched this happen from a park just south next to the airport-SFO plane spotters will know it. The plane definitely appeared to be low and slow but I didn’t expect the plane to impact the rock wall. The sound of the plane hitting the rock wall was incredibly loud and watching the whole incident was terrifying, incredibly sad, and adrenaline inducing all at once. I feared for the worst, but I’m glad the outcome wasn’t way worse than it already was.
Pilots' names:
Wei Tu Lo
Bang Ding Ow
Ho Lee Fukh
@@simonmultiverse6349 you forgot Sum Ting Wong...he was the first to bring the descent rate to attention.
@@noahman27 Yes, indeed I appear to have forgotten Sum Ting Wong !!!!
Someone at the airport (probably someone with a sense of humour) phoned the news TV station and gave those names. These were actually broadcast on the news.
I've been to CC Park many, many times. Never deliberately as a planespotter but we've always enjoyed that aspect.
I can't imagine having been there to see and hear it. I remember seeing the pall from Flight 191 from my attic window as a kid and that was unsettling enough.
I'm a flight instructor in an approved flight training center and I really found this analysis very instructive. I often recommend your videos to my students as a source to enhance their aeronautical culture and safety awareness. In addition, the video quality, the animation and the simulation is so impressive.
Thank you for this really great content.
I am not a pilot and have no desire for aviation but these videos break down highly technical and interesting information in a way that the average person like me can understand! I like these videos! If your students want a laugh you need to watch his video about the Catastrophe with a cat.....
I am an engineer with no relation to the aeronautical industry and I binge watch these videos. They feel like engineering field studies, minimum drama and maximum context.
I was with the FAA when this happened. I was surveying the debris field less than 24 hours after the accident. On the runway I found an identification badge for one of the flight attendants. I still get choked-up when I think about it.
@@jasonbender2459 not even remotely funny, fkn racist
Yes, it would be traumatizing with that kind of grief. This accident is human error. What the hell was his rush to land I question. I'm not a pilot yet instinct would tell me, hey I'm too high, going around and Jimmy crack corn and I don't care. I'm going around cause I mistakenly am too ooo high to come in for the landing and THAT is what I'm going to do.
@@waterbird91 : There is no shame in a go around.
@@jasonbender2459 he obviously wasn't high enough,he should have calmed his tripping ass with another puff puff give,if you're going to fly high then do it proper half assed never gets you anywhere
I’m glad all the flight attendants survived at least though
I think the reason that the pilot flying was scared to show weakness to his friendly instructor is that he doesn't want to disappoint someone who is so nice. It can be scary to disappoint someone you fear but it hurts you most inside when you disappoint somebody you like.
cultural problem of higher ups and lower level pilots in Asian culture,
but they should also think all the souls that rely on him. if it is a cargo flight or empty flight may you can depend on your feeling but here you should depend on rules and experience.
instructor was a total moron
We don't think rationally when we're afraid. Fight, flight or FREEZE
I like how Blancolirio often says that it’s always a go-around with an option to land. Metaphorically true of many things in life as well. Leave a factor of safety and a margin for error and don’t let pride or stubbornness ruin your day.
That’s all correct
@@MentourPilot I think you have the wrong final report linked in the video description. The one that is linked is for the 2016 B777 accident of Emirates UAE521 at Dubai International.
I always approach a stop sign with the same mindset. Stop with an option to go, not go with an option to stop.
Easier said than done!
Juan has a great channel!
'If in doubt, go around'. A lesson; not only in aviation, but in life itself.
Don’t forget about when in doubt pull it out
First google 's suggestion on "if in doubt" is "if in doubt flat out".
🤣🤣🤣🤣Right! Go around is best option in most cases
and use the smell test
Dunno how im gonna go around paying my education dept.
It's crazy how fast things go from a slightly nervous pilot to passengers being thrown from the back of a plane cartwheeling down a runway.
I told you not to drink and fly kid🤣
There would’ve been only one fatality had the other two fatalities been wearing their seatbelts.
Mhh I don't agree. As you've seen in the video, it took many steps that had been done wrong for this to happen.
The craziest thing is that almost everyone survived. One was killed by a fire truck, another one died a week later from the injuries. The third one was apparently killed on impact.
@@Powerranger-le4up One fewer fatality if the fire truck had not ran over her.
I remember this accident and the enormous amount of rumors that the media aired. The biggest being that the pilots were drunk during the flight. Glad that you have told what really happened.
I remember when this first happened. It still blows my mind not only that it happened, and not only how many problems the airline had with their procedures, but also that despite cartwheeling pretty much every single passenger survived this. And one who died was unfortunately the victim of extremely bad luck - being struck by a fire engine of all things.
And not wearing their seatbelts during landing.
@@MentourPilot probably not enough info for a whole video yet, but you should look at the crash of Learjet N880Z. Really unfortunate crash. They’re all sad, but this one hit a little harder for multiple reasons. Happened at my home airport, the pilot had the mic keyed through the last few seconds of flight, and all in all just a crash that could have easily been avoided if not for a series of really bad decisions.
The final report stated that the person struck by the fire engine was already deceased.
Dang
@@evilutionltd Already deceased having already been run over by the first fire truck.
It's interesting that Asiana had company policy to use autopilot at all times possible but still the training didn't result in full understanding of the various autopilot modes. I would have assumed that with such a heavy emphasis on autopilot, fully understanding the autopilot behavior in all modes would be critical.
Yes, but it’s always an issue when the pilots THINK they understand something but they really don’t. Those knowledge gaps are only exposed in very peculiar situations, like this one..
Most people don’t always remember fully what they learn in school so for Asiana to opt for autopilot in all times is surely one way to be over reliant on something and not emphasizing manual or on going training as a reference point is really bad policy. The rigidity of their leadership structure also played a role in this fatal outcome. If line of communication had been open and not closed the instructors would have step in and avoided this and the pilot would have been sent to more training courses. Clearly he wasn’t ready for the 777.
@@JeanClaudeCOCO I think the instructor should have intervened earlier, either overtaking the control and/or call out go around.
Even on driving lessons on car, if the instructor sees any sign from the learner that leads him to believe continuing practice driving on the road is unsafe, he would have to tell the learner to stop the car, swap the seats, and have the instructor driving the car back to the driving school.
I agree. In my career I have come across so many pilots who only used V/S as other modes like FLCH and VPath/VNAV modes especially in association with A/T where not clearly understood. It got worse after the introduction of fully automated GPS approaches followed by ATC shortcuts and subsequent visual clearances when the approach then had to change to managed mode and/or subsequent visual clearances.
Airlines like to talk about having pilots understand automation. From my experience of three Boeing aircraft, I don't think that the design engineers truly understood automation themselves. Many times have I seen these aircraft doing things that cannot and should not happen when flying on automation. If you are wondering what the heck the automation is doing, use a lower level of automation or fly manually if your skills are still up to it.
SFO approach control always keeps you high and fast due to San Jose, Oakland air traffic and volume of arrivals. You have to be ready for the slam dunk because it's coming. You need to be stable at 1000 ft, no less than 500 ft, landing flaps and engines spooled up. It takes anywhere from 6 to 8 seconds to get thrust from idling engines.
Correct!
It always feels weird landing at SFO. I didn't realize san jose and Oakland airports contributed to it ...
Each time I land at SFO I'm at rapt attention, checking out the approach 🤓
Quite often crossing over/abeam the airfield on a downwind track at 11,000 feet when suddenly cleared for the slam dunk visual; often with a requirement to turn inside traffic on a straight in.
@billlakers6082 I wonder what you just said. 😅
I flew the 787 as a Captain based in KSFO for several years. The 787 is very, very similar to the 777 and the training to move from one to the other is a short course primarily focused on differences and limitations. Our procedures prohibited the use of Flight Level Change (“FLCH”) below a certain altitude. The HOLD mode was well understood but there were still several recorded incidents in which FLCH and HOLD were used. This accident changed everything. The recalcitrant pilots that had flown older aircraft had been holding on to “Level Change” and “Vertical Speed” (“VS”) and seemed to have a great reluctance to use the latest technology to use LNAV and VNAV modes. In fact, among those of fully bought in to the GPS based LNAV/VNAV paradigm, the “V/S” was short for “Very Seldom” as was something that we typically were reluctant to use because of the lack of speed protection. FLCH was generally considered to be a mode that carried a number of threats and was only used with a high emphasis on strict CRM protocols.
The Vertical Navigation mode provided all of the speed protections as long as the Auto Throttles were left engaged. This accident is a case study in poor training, a lack of system knowledge and awful CRM. My briefing about missed approach was that any pilot or qualified jumpseater should not be reluctant to call for a missed approach. The third pilot was probably the only one with complete situational awareness and should have called for a missed approach the moment he pushed up the throttles. Such a waste.
You know nothing!
If it happened in American Airlines…Can you tell the same?
Yeah, you’re probably right. After a forty year career what do I know?
The most surprising here is the instructor pilot missing a lot of the details.
The pilot flying, the instructor pilot AND the relief first officer. That’s 3 pilots in total that actually contributed to this mess.
@@Unfinished_sentenc True, but this was a training scenario. The lack of communication is wholly bizarre.
that's what i dont get, the whole point of him being there was exactly so that shit didnt happen. how the hell did he miss so many problem, or worse, saw them but didnt realize how bad they really were and decided to just watch and talk about it later...
i dont blame the pilot in training, he was doing what he thought was right at the moment, the fact the other pilots just allowed him to err this much(specially his instructor) really baffles me.
Maybe because its english.lots of korean pilots still having hard time to understand english.
@@marcosdhelenolack of communication. Pilot flying switched modes, didn’t verbalize. You try sitting in a cockpit trying to notice one little switch change out of the hundreds in front of you. Communication is so important. But instructor should have advised a go around way sooner. Once again, PF didn’t verbalize his confusion or nerves, giving instructor less reaction time. PF also was worried about passing his line training rather than safety alone, might be reason for no go around despite being the only one to know the true gravity of the situation. 90% PF’s fault I’d say. 10% instructor and RF. They can’t know until it’s communicated, they’d have to be super super tuned in to notice. Considering 10 hours of smooth flying, circadian low, and lack of communication, you can’t put the blame on instructor and RF.
You did a really good job of explaining a complex system. I was able to follow along despite being completely unfamiliar with it.
Awesome! That’s what I’m always going for.
@@MentourPilot Thank you for your hard work. I am from Madeira Island from Portugal and there have been 2 accidents from TAP Air Portugal and SATA in 1977 happening in the span of a single month in the Island's airport which I would love if they were explored and explained by you. The runway was closed and extended after these accidents. The airport is still known for being difficult to land at.
I was living in Chengdu, China when this crash occurred. I believe the two passengers who died were Chinese students going to the USA to study. I recall the details because a lot of my students were travelling, that year, for hoildays / study in the USA. I was worried for my student's safety. It was common to fly across China to South Korea and then take a flight to USA from there. The cabin crew hit the runway and some survived!
Two communist spy students ya mean...correct?
I love your videos and especially the insights into pilot training and the remediations that happen after accidents. They've actually made me feel safer as a passenger. Thank you!
As a nuclear Reactor Operator it is instilled in all of us to follow the procedures until you find yourself outside the parameters established during that procedure. Your descriptions are phenomenal & very clear explanations were given regarding the system parameters & settings, very well done, thank you
Now I know this is not the topic of this video but may I ask what is your opinion on Thorium reactors?
I’m 34 years old! I have always been terrified to fly my entire life! I started watching your videos a few years back and I’ve flown 4 times with no fear because of your videos! Thank you!
@@mikepxg6406 😂😂😂😂😂
@@mikepxg6406 Don't forget the training pilot, Ho Lee Fuk !!
the way to the airport is way more dangerous
Just the opposite here. How could 4 pilots not be aware of what was likely to happen, then waste time after the crash reading a checklist? It sounds as if this happened in the Metaverse with Bill Gates having codied the bot pilots.
That's awesome!
This video completely changed my understanding of this incident. The level of detail that your videos dive into is well above that of many other channels and the graphics and explanations are super clear. Great video!
Thank you! That’s what we are always trying to achieve
Every incident he covers completely changes my perspective. The media does a great disservice.
You’re definitely not wrong about the circadian rhythm.
I worked overnights at a casino for 6 years.
I always told new people, “you will always be at least a little tired working this shift. You will never feel completely rested.”
what
Unfortunately, I was at SFO that day and watched this accident happen in real time. It was a gorgeous day and I had just dropped a friend off at the airport and decided to do some airplane watching from the observation deck. I had been watching planes land and take off for about 30 minutes when I caught eye of the Asiana flight. From my perspective I could not tell anything was wrong until the impact with the sea wall. I watched the impact and the airplane tumble down the runway. I was using my binoculars and also my telephoto lense on my camera. It was terrible to witness and at first I thought I could not believe what I was looking at. To witness a commercial plane of that size crash and almost cartwheel down the runway was unbelievable. I stood there in disbelief with other people who were plane spotting and watched the emergency response to the accident. A SFO police officer came to the platform and asked if any of us saw the accident and, of course, we all did. We were asked to write a statement of what we witnessed and to provide any photo documentation or recordings of the accident which I gladly complied with. It was a sad and tragic ending of what was a beautiful day in the Bay Area and I found myself not able to concentrate for days afterward.
Thank you very much for sharing your experience!
I can’t even begin to imagine the trama you have seing that. Hugs
I flew out the day after with the wreck still on the tarmac. Every time I fly into SFO, on approach, I now pray I don't hit the seawall.
@@jennifersequeira6773 are you a pilot?
Was the officials wearing black and sunglasses . Did you remember the flashing light when they told you what you saw was a seagull landing
Oh, a pilot's, and especially a training pilot's perspective on these incidents is so insightful. I remember when your channel was not about incidents, but general aviation education but goodness, you convey the incidents so well.
Thank you. I started this series because I recognized that I could continue to teach but with the use of these stories to keep the audience watching.
@@MentourPilot Indeed a very good idea!
Well, one can learn a lot from these mishaps. Things like over reliance on technology, why things like checklists and CRM are so important, and things like a lack of training. It is all teachable moments and Petter has a way of making sure that those of us who aren't pilots understand the things that pilots have to deal with.
I’m 43 years old and have been terrified of flying all my life and have never been in an aeroplane at all. I started watching your videos and due to the information you give and a very supportive other half I took my first holiday on a plane last year (2 hour flight). I’ve now been on holiday 4 times on planes so cannot thank you enough for giving me the confidence and freedom to fly; you have changed my life.
My last flight was the longest I have been on 4 hours from Turkey to England on a 737-800. On that flight home I was on row 2 and saw the pilot leave the cabin and talk to the cabin crew, get some snacks and re-enter the cockpit. While I’m cruise I’m now really relaxed as from your videos I understand that being high up gives us options should anything happen. However when the captain did this I became nervous again as I remembered what happened on the German wings flight many years ago where to do-pilot locked everyone out of the cabin with disastrous consequences. What has changed from a procedure process to protect against this reoccurring? Many thanks
After germanwings accident ,airlines put some extra rules to their cockpit procedures. When one of the pilots wants to use toilet or lieve the cockpit to stretch the legs for example, there must be a cabin crew inside the cockpit during flight crew absence.
Though Germanwings probably could’ve been prevented had people learned from the crash of LAM Mozambique Flight 470 where the captain locked out the first officer and done the same thing. Ironically, LAM already had that policy of having a flight attendant come in when one needed to leave the cockpit. It just wasn’t followed the day of that crash. Germanwings didn’t have that policy at all until that crash.
I'm 61. I've flown a few times (and aged a decade each time). But with what I've found on this channel, I'm glad I stopped. I NO longer trust humans to manage such intricate, massive machines.
AFAIK, the most important point was to enhance the monitoring of the mental status of pilots, both at the time of employment and during the career. Cabin crew in the cockpit or not, the most important thing is to not have rogue pilots there.
But it is impossible to find all. We must trust a lot of people in society, we cannot have someone monitoring everyone who has a job where he easily could cause fatal harm. The truck driver should not suddenly drive on the sidewalk. The military officer should not suddenly blow up his platoon. The doctor should not kill his patients.
I suggest you sit down, buckle up and take sleeping pill. You'll have great flying experience
I was a flight attendant for Emirates then. We were supposed to take off from San-Fran 3 hours after the crash but instead of getting a pick up call at the hotel, we got a note under our door to say the SFO airport is closed. First thing I did was turn on the TV and there it was, the accident. Lucky that most of the people escaped safely, I can only imagine what the ATC had to deal with for the remainder of the day. Our 14hr flight turned into 26 hours inside the aircraft due to taking off with minimum fuel for the only available shorter runway, then going to Seattle for refueling. Surprisingly it was the quietest longhaul flight ever, I think the pax were so terrified and exausted with all the delays, we all just wanted to get home.
Regarding the controversy about a passenger being run over: this happened as the airport firetruck was maneuvering to aggressively fight the fire due to a lack of clarity if passengers were still on board the aircraft. There were several feet of foam now surrounding the aircraft, obscuring the previously visible body, which unfortunately was run over. It may not have been marked with a cone due to how quickly it became covered and how close it was to the flaming aircraft on arrival of this truck.
Autopsy found a lack of dust, smoke, water, or foam in the lungs of the victim, indicating her death preceded the arrival of firefighters.
Of note, the two ejected fatalities were the only two passengers not wearing seatbelts. Even if injured, you can survive this severity of impact in a modern plane....but not if you get thrown hundreds of feet down the runway.
Why would anyone not wear their seat belts on take-off or landing? 🤯
@@unvergebeneid hate for rules! I saw it so many times! People put the seatbelt, then after cabin crew inspection, they disengage it and proudly says: "nobody can tell me what to do, I'm a free man!"
Ye Mengyuan, it is reported by the coroner, was alive before being run over and killed.
@@MT-it9qt The statement you reference is from 2013, years prior to the final NTSB report, when there was a lack of clarity. There is often much less coverage of the final reports than the sensational early news, such as her being "run over while alive", so it makes sense for many to continue to hold the initial belief.
"Significantly, neither report noted visible dust, dirt, debris, or fire fighting foam in the trachea or lung tissues of the deceased" This is in reference to the autopsy reports of both passengers 41B and 41E (Ye Meng Yuan)
Survival Factors Group Chairman's Factual Report, Exhibit No. 6-A, Section 8.2 Fatalities, pages 59-60. NTSB File DCA13MA120
@@TreadSlowly tx for input. Sad result either way.
You must spend many days reading and researching to make these half hour videos, thank you so much.
I’m guessing that this incident had most of the crew and passengers survive because of the low speed and relatively slow decent rate. Being the end of the flight, the plane probably had much less fuel in it.
That being said, I can only imagine what it must have felt like to be those that were ejected out the back when the tail broke off. I’m happy for those that survived…
but the amount of lasting mental and physical trauma from something like that would probably be career ending for most.
Not to mention the trauma for the families of those that survived the crash but were run over by responding fire trucks.
3 girls in the back didn’t have there seat belts on . hense we’re ejected.
@@mysterymete Quoting the video:
"One of the firefighting vehicles unfortunately later ran over one of the ejected passengers, who was lying on the ground, covered in firefighting foam, but the investigation later showed, that the passenger was already deceased at that point."
At first, I also had the initial thought, that they'd run over a survivor, but luckily that wasn't the case.
103 knots may be low for a landing, but it's still 190 km/h 😂
@@komet5420
Well, it is indeed 190.7 km/h, a good car speed on German autobahns. I wouldn't expect to survive getting out of the car at that speed.
Obviously nothing was in their way, so they probably landed on the green next to the runway
6:59 as someone who drives overnight constantly I know exactly what you mean. Nothing like starting to drive, seeing the sun rise, then seeing the sun set, then seeing the sun rise again in one non stop trip.
As someone who suffers from Non-24, the whole concept of a circadian rhythm fascinates me. I never would have thought that a pilot that got a nap during the flight would still be fatigued because it was 3am back home. Thanks for the simple, succinct explanation of the circadian low's impact on flight crews.
Do you not have a rhythm?
I also have non 24 but I still have a rhythm of approx 25 hours, if I deviate from that rhythm I experience symptoms of fatigue, insomnia and digestive complications among other things.
Do you force a 24 hour routine even though you have non 24? My doctor attempted to treat my conditions with 24 hour routine and melatonin however my body couldn't cope with it long term.
IME there is no real treatment for Non 24 and CFS/ME.
I just found out about non-24 because of this comment and it's quite terrifyingly accurate. At the same time I would also look into things causing delayed Melantonin release like ADHD. Non-24 would describe perfectly how I felt and still sometimes feel but I've still been able to help myself to fit in with a relatively normal sleep schedule.
@@netyr4554 In my twenties, I figured out I had a rhythm of about 26 hours. But it has changed over time. I'm 50 now and whatever rhythm I used to have has completely shorted out. I've always been naturally nocturnal so adjusting my bedroom to simulate the moment of sunrise (instead of sunset like bedrooms are supposed to be) helps me to sleep when I need to in order to fit a 24-hour routine, but in general I have to be completely exhausted before my body will allow sleep.
(Posted at 3:04am local time, and I am absolutely wide awake and doing the laundry.)
@@the_bottomfragger It was only a couple of years ago that I learned it had a name. I've since done a lot of reading on Non-24 and sleep/sleeplessness in general, and learned a lot about myself in the process. It's really helped me to embrace it and do a better job of fitting my life into my natural sleep pattern (such as it is) instead of trying to force my sleep pattern into an artificial schedule.
@@tvdan1043 Uhm, there was quite a bit of research here proving that everyone gravitates to a 25-26 hour sleep cycle without external influence and it is perfectly normal. I expect that perhaps it is simply to give us more flexibility in adjusting our schedules by giving us an extra 90 minute cycle of alertness if we need it. Of course, that likely means that your body is less responsive to the external influence of blue light and so on that help adjust us to a shorter cycle and induce sleep but there are many other influences too. You are simply reverting to the natural sleep cycle that everyone undergoes when hidden from the sun/regular day cycle of sleeping when your body and mind are tired instead of because it is late.
No matter what, landing and taking off always gives me chills…. So sad that this happened in my hometown SF. We rarely have accidents and this was a bone chiller!
Same.
I dont relax til we are up and cruising after takeoff, and again after we land and the plane is rolling and staying parallel with the edge of the runway
@@kroon275 I totally understand.
@@kroon275 Same! Taking off and landing scare the crap out of me every time :(
This was very saddening news for Asiana. After this incident, the Korean government banned Asiana from flying to SFO for 45 days and recruited Akio Yamamura from All Nippon Airways as their Safety Chief Officer. The captain and the instructor captain were initially transferred to groundwork, but they were fired on 2014/07/02.
@@erischaot not quite sure about that, it was an accident with passenger fatalities that was 100% due to multiple pilot errors, including grave ones like failing to go around when it was clearly indicated. After that, it's rather difficult to justify letting these pilots fly for your airline again - what if something happens again, and it comes out that the pilots had previously already been the cause of a fatal accident? The airline's reputation would be just gone.
It's interesting that they fired them. I hope there was some further factors other than the accident influencing that decision, since purely from this description it seems like some additional training could have made them both safe flight crew. In a way, fear of repercussions seems to have played a part in this accident, at least implied by Mentour Pilot. (Four red lights resulting in a fail, adding stress to the pilot.) Firing the pilots likely increases such stress on the other flight crews.
Im sure there's a healthy balance between the two approaches.
I am not a fan of toxic work environments, but I guess I feel like commercial airline pilots have to be held to a different standard. Particularly in regards to not being easily stressed or flustered, or needing to be reassured or coddled.
They need to be able to handle the pressure of "if I make a mistake I will get in trouble."
I’m not sure how I feel about firing the guy who had 30 previous hours on type, but the instructor pilot with 3,200 hours? Yeah, he should not have let it get this far…
Your crash videos are the best on the Internet. Your ability to explain what is happening and why gives a much clearer picture. This develops a more sympathetic view of what the pilots are up against. Your graphics are outstanding. I now know what PAPI lights look like.
It's _amazing_ that _three_ experienced pilots, one of whom a line training pilot, missed such basic problems!
overconfidence in automation, combined with overconfidence on part of the PF in his check pilot to call him out on mistakes, combined with fear on all of them to show weakness (a common thing in Asian pilots especially) combined with no doubt the check pilot not wanting to fail the student by taking over at a critical moment and correcting mistakes.
@@jwenting he could've suggested a go-around without failing him though, right? Nobody ever even suggested a go-around!
@@jwenting (and Penny Lane) This was the check-pilot's first flight as a check-pilot. When things start to go sideways, the decision whether to let the PF (Pilot Flying) continue to fly the plane or to jump in and take over is a tricky one -- it's kind of a balancing act. In this case, no doubt due to lack of experience as a check-pilot, he waited too long to jump in and take over.
@@Milesco Fair point, except when GPWS warnings are going off!
@@EvoraGT430 Well, according to this video, there were no GPWS warnings, just a stall warning chime at the very last minute, and as soon as that sounded, the check pilot pushed the throttles forward (but by then it was too late).
I can't believe you made this video. I had to present this during my ATPL ground school classes only a month ago and I was going to ask you to make a version but I didn't think you would. Really tragic set of circumstances but I'm really looking forward to seeing how you've broken this one down and your thoughts. Thanks Petter 😁
What a complex sequence of an events to create a scenario of such nature.
Good video once again, well explained what happened! As a pilot I would like to say that it doesn't matter what kind of speed protection is available in an airplane in the way you operate the airplane. It is the pilots responsibility to fly a safe airspeed, no matter what. The speed protection system is a last defense against stalling, it is not the other way around.
The most important thing is what Mentour also said: keep flying manually, also with A/T disengaged from time to time!
Two corrections. 1: According to the San Mateo County Coroner's report, the student lying in grass near the runway was alive when she was run over by a fire truck. Tragically she was killed by the fire truck. 2: Per helmet and truck videos from the scene, she was initially not covered in firefighting foam. One or more firefighters saw her prior to the foam application and waved a truck around her, assuming she was deceased. A maneuvering truck ran her over a short time later. Her name was Ye Mengyuan and she was 16 years old. Respectfully, the video should be corrected.
but if firefighters (likely first ones who reach area) assume she is dead, and kill her accidentally, how someone reveal she was alive actually?
On July 19, 2013, the San Mateo County Coroner's office determined that Mengyuan was still alive before being run over by a rescue vehicle, and was killed by blunt force trauma. On January 28, 2014, the San Francisco city attorney's office announced its conclusion that the girl was already dead when she was run over.
It's beyond horrible, but I hope that the latter conclusion is correct. Because otherwise it's even more horrible.
@@gregsomlai297
It's horrendous in both scenarios. I mean even if she was dead, imagine losing your baby girl in a plane crash, only to receive her with a crushed skull because emergency responders didn't show any care for her remains. The fire department knew where she was and didn't even have the basic decency to ensure no damage would come to the body. Everything about it is heartbreaking.
@kadri ever heard of autopsies?
That cartwheel in the intro led me to believe there'd be no survivors, but the things during the video you mentioned about the thoughts of the pilots suggested otherwise. Something like this happens and only three people don't make it. That plane is an incredible piece of engineering.
Indeed.
And 2 of those passengers who didn't make it only died because they were not wearing their seatbelt. The NTSB investigation concluded that they would almost certainly have survived with minimal injuries had they been wearing their seatbelt as required, as did the people who were sitting right beside them. The other passenger who died was apparently killed during the impact with the seawall as one of the aft exit doors behind her was separating from the aircraft, struck by a piece of it.
@@vbscript2 Indeed.
when it happened, there was a lot of disbelief that the plane had cartwheeled, especially as it was reported as flipped, then someone came forward with a video
@@vbscript2 You mean the two that got thrown onto the runway when the tail broke off? I don't know if what you're saying makes any sense. They got thrown out of a plane when the tail section broke off. Would seatbelts really have helped?? Maybe. I was actually wondering why all the crew that got flung out of the tail section survived, yet none of the passengers that got flung out survived. Maybe seat belts were the difference.
But, still, what you're saying doesn't make any sense, because you said that they would have survived, just like the people beside them that were wearing seatbelts. This makes zero sense - the people right beside them did not get sucked out of the airplane when the tail broke off! That's why they survived. They survived because they were not sucked out/flung out onto a runway, not because they were wearing seatbelts.
Thank you for this. I remember the first thing that I thought when watching this accident was how 3 experienced pilots in the cockpit all failed to recognize the approach was low and slow - it seemed like the most basic error, something that struck me from what I remember in my PPL lessons 25 years ago, compounded by the pilot flying pulling up without increasing power. But your explanation explained the chain of events and errors that led to the descent going wrong so clearly. You also explained the technical aspects of the way the B777 systems so well, and how they contributed to this sequence of events - this was exceptional. So much I want to ask, I want so much more detail.
From the media here in Korea, couple things I remember from the aftermath - there was a lot of talk from Asiana about how the ILS approach was not operating, but also that the autothrottle had not worked properly - if I remember right, this was also something that the flight crew all mentioned in interviews after the accident. The detail you shared about the training session which did not adequately explain what protections the autothrottle actually offered, and the misconceptions the pilots were left with (not realizing the protection they were counting on did not exist in certain modes) was really telling. Discussion on pilot forums after the crash mentioned the way both major Korean airlines relied so much on automation. I remember reading an account of a foreign training captain working here who failed a senior Korean captain on a simulator flight for not being able to handle a visual approach, requesting vectors etc. because of this reliance. It was known here that the PF had very few hours on the B777, but your little detail about how he was apprehensive about flying a visual approach on his first line check was striking. You also handled the issue of the hierarchical culture that exists here very well - I have lived here for so long, and it really was/is a powerful force everywhere (business, medicine, law) and I can only imagine way this must manifest itself among commercial pilots, especially with so many former military pilots in the senior ranks. It might be too easy a conclusion to draw, but it surely was a factor. Thank you again.
Was on the OZ flight to and from SFO last month, now OZ 212, operated by an A350, landed on 28L, I think. Brought a few small boxes of chocolates for the cabin crew - just a little thing, just wanted to show some appreciation
Complacency. I guess. All assume its a piece of cake but it's not.
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The most important thing is to always check the thrust and height. These pilots should never fly again as they are not able to understand these basics.
What an incredibly well put together video, RIP to those 3 who sadly lost their life
Been following you for a few years. Congratulations on the outstanding growth you've achieved.
He’s finally done it. He’s finally done a video of 214.
Yep, eventually they will all come
@@MentourPilot I've been waiting for this flight to be analyzed.
@@MentourPilot can't remember if you've done a video about the 777 crash here at EGLL...
As a Bay Area resident who's landed (as a passenger on SFO's 28L many times), I also have been waiting for this analysis. It was worth the wait. Mentour did a great job.
I have been looking forward to your perspective on this incident. It's fairly fresh in my memory and it's interesting to learn the details again. Also, these animations are getting next-level!
Keep up the great work!
Thank you Rahul!
Hi, your ANALYSES of these flight associated disasters are marvelous, mind blowing and the animations are ultra high quality. Wishing you a more prosperous future with more innovations and more and more sponsors too!
I live in the SF Bay Area (near the oakland airport). We have VERY busy skies as there are three major airports around the bay. I actually LOVE the landings at SFO and OAK because you descend over the bay in a nice easy decline. Unlike other city airports where you are flying in circles around the city to get to the airport.
I remember the day this happened and is seemed SO odd as the landings are so calm, typically. Everyone was talking about it and how strange it was to mess up a landing here.
I am not any sort of pilot, so watching your video helped me understand what could lead to this.
I remember this really well. Was astonished at the carnage BUT also very surprised with how many survived. I MUST SAY, your videos..editing, graphics, etc..the whole enjoyable “experience” is like that of a movie, OR quality documentary. Seriously top-notch stuff! Great work..
Petter, it's not easy to explain the automatic systems in airliners like the 777, but you make it sound easy. Another factor that may have affected the communication between the pilots is the culture often seen in East Asia. Authorities are highly respected, and even when the trainee considered the line instructor to be one of the better to work with, there might have been a barrier.
the "automatic" systems are mainly disparate relying on Mk 1 eyeballs only to scan, and yes indeed cultural problems I know about I live in asia...
The automated systems take some time to get used to, yes.
And usually they do a pretty good job, but when used incorrectly (like here) they can hide serious problems until it's way too late.
I've done quite a bit (as in 2000 hours or so over the years) of flying 777s (and far more in other Boeing and Airbus aircraft) in Microsoft flight simulator and X-Plane and that's what I learned (and that's just counting the quality addons, not the stock models which are much simplified).
Sadly my medical history prevents me from ever getting a pilot license, and has prevented me from pursuing my childhood dream of becoming an airline pilot ever since failing my service medical 35 years ago, or I'd quite likely be that senior long haul pilot by now flying a 777 or similar.
The quality of your videos are simply exceptional. I've only found your channel recently and have binge watched every one of your aircraft accident series! Honestly they are far better than any other documentary series on plane disasters I've seen on TV in literally every way, even the recreation of the events using MFS is just perfectly done along with the narration (which you do brilliantly). I know you are an experienced Captain, but it is a rare talent to be able to communicate your knowledge on aviation as well as you do which can be understood by the average person.
Thank you for putting the time and effort in to create these videos, it must take a lot of work to put together but it's clearly shown!
Love your content, appreciate everything you do 🙏
SFO is my home airport and on this day I was flying out to south America that afternoon. My parents were taking me to sfo that morning shortly after this crash. We watched the aftermath of the crash and sfo was left with one working runway that day. Smoke was visible for miles the casualties were low given the number of passengers and for that we were grateful. Thank you for the detailed explanation of this incident, your description of what happened was very helpful in my understanding of this unfortunate event. Please keep up your good work. I am so appreciative of your channel. Particularly in this incident
I always told my first officers that when high and fast, the landing gear was the ‘great equalizer’ and to not be afraid to lower it earlier than normal because that would improve the rate of descent.
I was just rewatching the past episodes, just saw everglades and helios and the recent emirates. So glad there's a new one. Even though I don't fly, I find your videos really comforting and informative. Also could you do a video on the first commercial around the world flight? I recently read an article about it and found it fascinating. Thanks for your content ❤
Here’s a list of what I’ve already learnt:
1. Flight hours ≠ Experience
(Someone can have thousands of hours of flying experience and still suck at hand flying the aircraft)
2. Severe over reliance on automated systems
(2 we’ll trained pilots didn’t check that their autopilot, which will indicate they’re in the wrong setting)
3. Degradation of pilots hand flying skills
(Pilots are increasingly becoming just another computer operator, that’s a really bad thing. Being a pilot used to mean someone with a great and unique skill, now it’s being eroded)
Here's a list of more things I learnt from this video:
+ When in doubt, go around
(I always joked around calling this "Option C". Going around my flight school saying, "When in doubt choose C". Guess jokes can sometimes save lives.)
+ Airspeed and Altitude are life. Basically, monitoring everything that starts with the letter A
All good points!
Great video and detailed explanation.. As opposed to just saying these guys were fools. There's almost a good reason (s) why things happen.
Indeed! Thank you so much for your wonderful support!!
I've come to watch quite a few of these accident report videos now (cause I'm addicted), and speed management seems to come back all the time. I know there are all sorts of complex mechanisms, procedures and threads of events explaining those accidents, but to a newbie like me it always sounds crazy that it's not the first thing you're gonna keep an eye on, that and altitude.
Yes … so often it’s about speed/stall. 😢
See, the whole point is that Asiana taught them to rely on automated systems as much as possible, and in fact, you can see this in the world of cars, too. There are Tesla drivers who have been _killed_ because they let the car drive itself, thinking it was fully 100% equipped to handle everything without the "driver" (or, rather, passenger-behind-the-wheel) needing to monitor anything. In both cases, this is _not_ what the designers of these vehicles intended. Just like with the Tesla, aircraft will have auto-pilot, but as the pilot flying, it is still one's responsibility to monitor the state of the aircraft and be aware of what it's doing at all times instead of just assuming the computer is functioning properly, or in this case, as intended.
@@Dhalin Basically, they need to practice enough flying the plane with all the auto stuff shut off so they are proficient enough to actually fly the plane.
@@mrapp8918 more accurately, it’s about energy management in all stages of flight,and the complexity of modern aircraft modes makes it difficult for pilots weaned on automatics-all-the-time to understand what’s going on in stressfull situations to catch up with the aircraft.
@@DhalinTesla autopilot is poorly coded garbage. It should not be called autopilot at all. It provided NO guarantees.
Sad for the loss of 3 lives. But I'm amazed how incredibly strong B777 is. One of my favourites along with B747 and A380.
Excellent work Petter and Mentour team.👍🏻
Petter is an extraordinary pilot and teacher at the same time. I'm amazed at his ability to explain complex subjects in simple words. I'm amazed at his ability to always go one step forward to respond the questions I'm wondering about in his stories.
Yet another absolutely outstanding presentation. One of the very best video presenters and video content providers on TH-cam. Thank you SO much for your posts.
Mayday did a good program about this accident, too. Investigators later discovered that in all of the captain's flight hrs, he had fewer than 100 hrs of hand flying, which ties in perfectly with Captain John Hansen's comments (Captain of Northwest Flight 85) that 'with all the automated cockpits, hand flying is in danger of becoming a lost art.'
I thought pilots were up there because of their flying skills, decision making, etc, not for their being able to understand the dozens of different configurations that can change because of a wrong switch throw.
Recently, just a couple of days ago, a Latam flight went into an unprecedented hail storm in Paraguay skies and suffered severe damage on the fuselage. Also, it is reported that they lost power on one of the engines. But the pilots managed to land the aircraft safely. This incident strongly reminded me of the Taca Airlines incident in 1988, that Petter described so well in his channel.
These pilots in Paraguay had no business flying into weather like this. When Taca 110 happened, on board weather radar was not very good. But today, there is no excuse.
@@mynameisgladiator1933 You also forgot that with Taca, they had to decrease speed for landing and the engines couldn’t handle the amount of water.
@@Powerranger-le4up It wasn't the water - at least in liquid form. It was the ice from the hail that jammed the water release mechanism in the engines. At least that's what I recalled it being.
They tested the engines with basically infinite water and they had no problem.
I have never wanted to be a pilot, like looking at planes in the sky & also like flying.
But never think much about planes or flying.
One of your videos popped up on my feed yest. And I have to say I’m really enjoying watching them.
Just shows what a good job your doing! Thank you for the uploads, you have a new subscriber who’s delighted they came across your channel 😉
I had learned: 'If in doubt, no doubt' (meaning cut the main chute and open the reserve, that was in sky-diving, years ago!).
Your channel is very interesting for nerdy people like me, but with no connection to flying a plane. The technical details are not always easy to understand, but I think eventually, after binging a certain number of episodes and googling a bit, at least this episode was mostly understandable to me (I do work daily with geographical data and some automation, so I guess it helps a bit maybe). Kudos to your channel and thanks a lot to you and your team for the amazing work! Utrolig bra jobba, hilsen fra Norge 👍
When mentour Pilot says “stay tuned “ u know it’s going to be a great and educational video
💕💕 Thank you
I remember when this happened. I lived in the Bay Area at the time. It was a sobering reminder when I was flying home from a business trip within days of this incident and the wreckage of the plane was still sitting in a place where it was fully visible from my window during landing at SFO. This accident stuck with me because I'll never forget that image.
Yeah, and people coming out to look at it.
I was commuting daily on 101 at the time and it was visible from the freeway. Was quite surreal to pass by the wreckage on a daily basis for a while.
Yeah - push forward socialism and you gonna see shittt like that every day forever 😅
@@pepperkilldevelopment9069 Irrelevant. Take your political agenda elsewhere.
@The Australian Deplorable, actually these seemingly opposite ideologies are just the same thing viewed from different directions. If unsafe is more profitable than safe then so it will be. You need quality people and freedom per se is not enough to give you that.
This is absolutely facinating! I'm learning a lot from you about managing my team in a high stress, high workload environment, with a lot of moving parts in play. I'm not flying a plane, but I can now identify things which contribute to keeping my team from crashing! Wellbeing and fatigue, team resource management, quality and type of training, situation awareness, task saturation and workload, attitude and culture, assumptions and misunderstandings, and procedures/policies. A huge thank you for making these videos.
I'd want to meet the first person in my life who would try to keep me from crashing. Where do I sign up?
@@seriouscat2231 A workers union. Its a sorry state when companies and managers don't invest in the wellbeing of their workforce. I hope you have a better experience in the future.
Another issue that many people that wouldnt recognize is the hierarchical style of speech used when speaking Korean. We covered it in my Korean linguistics class that many of the incidents in airlines stems from using Korean and not wanting to disrespect the older person or the person who has a higher job level. So the minute the student became the "captain" and the instructor became the monitor, it already caused issues. The captain not expressing his feelings is more related to 눈치 and wanted to save face
This cultural problem has led to many accidents in Asia and the Middle East.
I got out of the habit of watching your videos, a few months now, but this one caught my attention since I live near here. And wow, your level of immersion and storytelling gets better and better. Kudos to you and your team.
I live near here too!
@@kickedinthecalfbyacow7549 So you probably remember this being overshadowed locally by the knuckleheads at Channel 2!
@@jamesgoss1860 oh no, I don't live there, I live here!
You, The Montour Pilot, are an absolutely superb communicator and presenter! Yet another outstanding video.
Thank you! We do what we can, my team and I
As a proud Patreon sponsor!...I remain amazed at how well done are your videos.
Thank you for your awesome Support! You guys on Patreon is a huge reason I have been able to grow my team and produce like this.
Thanks for doing that. If I had the funds to spare, Petter would be on the short list of patreons I'd like to support.
Thank you for your amazing videos! I've been an aviation since I was a child. I'm from Canada, my Grandparents owned a home very close to Canadian Forces Base, 8 Wing Trenton. CFB Trenton is Canadas largest Airforce Base in Canada. I can remember the old DC-9's, they were so loud and they would train over the Bay of Quintie. They would fly so close to the water, it was an amazing site! It was also home to the old C-130H. CFB Trenton is home for the C-17A and the C-130J. CFB Trenton also has a SQN of F/A-18C's. These plan have been stationed at CFB Trenton since 9/11. I have to admit that after watching your video's I'm now absolutely terrified of flying!! Thanks once again for your content!
Mentour pilot and Mr.Ballen are the best story tellers on TH-cam. Thanks to you and the people behind the scenes for producing such high quality content 🤙🏽
lmao , true
Green Dot Aviation deserves a shout
I also like Fascinating Horror and Plainly Difficult
I'd add Plainly Difficult to our growing list.
Also That Chapter if you're interested in true crime.
That's pretty spectacular set of misundestandings and errors. But it's also amazing that despite all that happened to the plane, most of the passangers survived. Of course, that's not gonna make the famillies of the victims any happier, but at least a lot of other famillies were blessed to have ther loved ones alive. Great video, Peter!
Been a fan of you, Mentour Pilot, since around 2019. Whenever I have almost nothing to do I binge watch your series on airline incidents/accidents. I learn a lot about basic/moderate aircraft/aviation technicalities, although I seem to have no interest being a pilot in the future. 😅
You should do a video about the recent incident involving Korean Air Flight 631-the Airbus 330 that overshot the runway in Mactan Cebu International Airport-I’m from there, by the way 😁 but of course, let’s wait for the final report after investigations have been done.
Peter may be one of the best commercial pilots in the world, with all knowledge and repetition of procedures he gets with these videos...Ryan Air should be blessed to have him on...
The saddest part of the history is that it could be easily avoided 😔
Yes, but that’s almost always the case. If only one thing would have been changed, it wouldn’t happen.
Swiss cheese
@@MentourPilot the FMS helps you calculate the parameters it's a glorified calculator, - nothing assists your scan other than your MK1 eyeballs and competence (experience) as a pilot, I don't agree with current Flight deck design at all (instrumentation, presentation and displays) - If you "snapshotted" at 5 second intervals all the vital displayed parameters including a/t settings and then printed it out and had a chance over a coffee to think about it, away from the flight, you would have immediately noticed you were entering too low/slow, but no , humans cannot compete with even simple 16 bit processors when it comes to monitoring more than 10 inputs to their "scan"... This accident proves to me that humans are nearing their end of time as jet cockpit jockeys - unless some form of advanced "Ai" driven monitoring systems keeps a check on your handling - without upsetting OR controlling anything - just advising you there "may be" a problem.. If you were a fly on the wall in that situation in the jump seat, what would you have said, ???? I'd like to know, tell us please - would you have stepped in and kicked the thrust levers forward??????? I once flew with an ex-RAF (cold war) captain who said he would resort to using the fire axe if things got really bad :-)
@@MentourPilot I’ve been working on a little aviation alternate history series where I just change ONE thing and see what happens. Here’s the first:
On that fateful day in March 1977, one of the fuel trucks at Los Rodeos is broken. Captain van Zanten decides to not wait for another truck, with the result that it's about 15% lighter. Everything else goes the same.
KLM 4805 manages to lift off-but barely. The right main landing gear smashes into the Pan Am jet's first-class lounge, killing most of the occupants and seriously wounding the rest. The force of the impact tears the gear off and it falls on Pan Am 1736's left wing, tearing it off and pushing it down the runway, but saving the cabin from the force of the explosion of engine no. 1. The weight and drag of the right landing gear being gone forces KLM 4805 to roll to the left, and Pan Am 1736's vertical stabilizer slashes the underside of KLM's own left wing like a razor, severing hydraulic lines and ripping through the outboard fuel tank. Once clear of the Pan Am jet, KLM 4805's left wing almost hits the ground, and only full right rudder from Captain van Zanten manages to save it. The plane nearly stalls as it lifts off, due to the damage to the left wing, and is again saved just in time.
Onboard Pan Am 1736, the clock is ticking. The first class lounge has been ripped open, but the main cabin is still sound. It's only a matter of time, however, before the fire eating its way through KLM's jet-fuel-soaked landing gear climbs to the stub of the left wing-and from there, to the fuselage and central fuel tank, spelling doom for the 300+ people on board. To make matters worse, a second fire breaks out in the remnants of the upstairs lounge, caused by sparking severed electrical wires. Most of the passengers are elderly, and the emergency exits on the left side of the aircraft are unusable. For the crew, this will be the evacuation of their lives.
Six minutes after takeoff, the first MAYDAY call from KLM 4805 comes in-and for the first time, the Los Rodeos tower realizes to their horror that not one but _two _planes were in distress. The KLM flight crew, only just beginning to realize the extent of the damage to their plane, initially wanted to circle back and land at Los Rodeos-but Los Rodeos has only one runway, and between the burning wreck of Pan Am 1736, its evacuating passengers, the fire trucks, the ambulances, and their own ruined landing gear, that runway was completely unusable. They could either try for Las Palmas, or ditch in the sea. As KLM 4805 acknowledged the transmission, the ATC crew could hear the unmistakable sound of an uncontained engine failure. Engine no. 1 had ingested part of Pan Am's vertical stabilizer, damaging the fan disc beyond salvation.
In the KLM cockpit, a grim mood reigned as the flight crew saw the enormity of the task in front of them. Engine no. 1 had failed and was spitting flame. Their left wing was bleeding jet fuel-fuel that could ignite at any time. Because of the severity of the tailstrike they had endured while rotating early, the crew was unable to pressurize the plane. Once at Las Palmas, they would have to belly-land their massive airliner, as their right main gear was completely gone. And, to top it all off, pressure in three out of their four hydraulic lines was steadily dropping. Soon, their aircraft would be all but uncontrollable.
Captain van Zanten felt a cold chill run through him as he realized what he'd done. He had been rushing to get home to his wife. Now, he might never see her again-and his recklessness might have doomed hundreds of people to a fiery end. Somehow, he would have to fly his barely-controllable massive airliner to Las Palmas and belly land it.
Soon, that cold chill was replaced by determination. He had gotten them into this mess, and he would get them out of it. If anyone could do it, it was him-one of the best pilots in KLM. And if he died, that would be alright-so long as his passengers and crew didn't have to pay for his mistake.
They were going to Las Palmas.
And all because of a broken fuel truck.
@@starwarzchik112 and don't forget that if PanAm had taken their assigned exit from the runway they'd not have been there when KLM was taking off.
Had they called in their decision to not take their assigned exit KLM would have waited.
Had the tower crew known that the exit they assigned to PanAm was suboptimal for a 747 they'd have assigned another exit and not authorised KLM.
Had ATC procedures been the same at Tenerife as at Schiphol van Zanten would not have misunderstood the permission to line up as permission to take off (at Schiphol those were always the same, when given permission to enter the runway you have permission to take off unless explicitly told otherwise).
Had the tower crew not been distracted by the football match on the radio they might have been more observant.
Had there not been overcrowding at the airport because of a lot of diversions due to bomb threats at other airports PanAm would not have been there at all.
Had the weather been different the tower crew and the KLM crew would have seen the PanAm aircraft still on the runway.
That accident was such a bucket list of bad things happening all at once, yet still van Zanten is vilified for it despite doing everything according to his training and experience, when IMO the main direct culprit was the PanAm crew who failed to notify ATC of their decision to use a different runway exit from the one they were assigned.
But as so often there's not a single factor that was solely responsible, nor a single person. Everyone involved made mistakes, whether through complacency, lack of experience, overconfidence, or distractions is irrelevant to the final outcome and only important to the people making recommendations to prevent similar accidents happening in the future (which after Tenerife meant mainly worldwide standardisation of ATC phraseology and procedures, and probably a more rapid introduction of ground radar at fog prone airports.
And all of that failed to prevent a very similar accident (though luckily with less loss of life because the aircraft were smaller) at Milan Linate years later when a SAS MD80 series airliner taking off slammed into a business jet that had entered the runway without permission, again in fog, after getting lost on a taxiway.
You did a very good job covering the pilot aspects of this incident!
There is one thing I was kind of surprised that you didn't mention, though: seat belts. In this incident where a plane slammed into a seawall and the whole cabin ultimately burned down and all but 3 of the 300+ people on board survived... the NTSB investigation concluded that two of the passengers who died only died - or sustained any serious injury at all - because they were not wearing their seat belt during the landing. The other passenger seated directly beside those two girls in the same group of three seats sustained only minor injuries. Their seats were not significantly damaged and their seat belts were found unbuckled with no signs of damage or use during the impact.
Seat belt requirements during takeoff and landing are there for a reason. People, please wear them. These two school-aged girls would almost certainly still be alive today had they been wearing their seatbelts. (One of these two is also the one who was later hit by a fire truck, however, NTSB's conclusion from the evidence was that she was already dead from injuries sustained during being ejected from the aircraft before being struck by the fire truck.)
These videos are incredible. The amount of work u put into these, the knowledge you've accumulated, and your gift at explaining these in layman's terms, astounds me. You sir are gifted, thank u!!
He needs to become a flight instructor or get paid big bucks to make instruction videos for students
Sir, your content, especially an accident investigation is the top-notch. Thank you for your work and time.
Hey! I'm a new sub but I've been watching for over a year now. I really appreciate the work you put into you channel especially considering you work as a pilot meanwhile. Your videos have been improving more and more for example new animations, sounds etc. I hope you continute your great youtube journey and inform even more interested people!
Thank you Ele! Welcome to the channel!
It is impressive that almost everybody survived. Cartwheeling in plane sounds very scary. Thank you for great video 👍
The cartwheel legit had me thinking that nobody survived. Hearing that the pilot in training made statements later got me shook.
@@hauntedshadowslegacy2826 Exactly... when wheels snapped I was like "yea, its over :(" and then even worse things happened. I was surprised in a good way!
The 777 is an absolute beast! Amazing anyone survived.
I can’t believe pilots have to go through this kind of stress just to land an airplane. Monitoring so many systems at a go. Thumbs up for the great work they do transporting us to and from our various destinations!
This starts right in flight school. Landing is a critical phase of flight with the highest workload. Since it's at the end of the flight the flight crew are more likely to be tired.
Indeed.
Not only pilots but air traffic control also stress. There’s a age limit. U can’t be over 30 before u start
Not really much to it...only really flying the first and last 30 minutes of any flight with the rest all done by autopilot.
That seems to be the problem to me, multiple systems that interact and can override each other under different situations & changing conditions.
Wow, thank you for this video, I was totally gripped by it even though I could only understand 90% of your aviation field. I just love the passion and I know this will be very useful for people who are learning this field.
Mental, I love 100% of a video where I understood 90%. Thanks man, and these are very well produced.
When I started my PPL training, I was told from the very start that every approach is an approach to a go-around, with an option to land.
At that flight school, we had a number of instructors and initially, everyone rotated through all of them (not a practice I find very sensible). When I was on an early occasion well off the centreline on final approach, I called going around, and the instructor I had at that time barked "You don't have the experience to make that decision, I HAVE CONTROL!" He then performed what I can only describe as aerobatics to get lined up - at low speed and low altitude, which scared the hell out of me - and landed hard just over halfway down the runway. I JAMMED my feet on the brakes and switched off the mags (my side, so he could not reach them), and got out and walked back to the light school. I never flew with that incompetent hour-builder again and was gratified to learn that he subsequently failed two simulator checkride interviews at minor airlines and gave up flying altogether. The next instructor I had was great at restoring my confidence (and was horrified at the actions of that one who had overridden my go-around call, reinforcing that I had made the correct call - both in the go-around and in refusing to ever fly with the previous instructor again). He had me solo within another 2 hours flying (much to my amazement, when he had me taxi back as normal after a full-stop landing, but stop and drop him off at the school on the way past), and I stuck with him through the rest of my PPL training.
YOU CAN ALWAYS GO AROUND, and the call can be made by ANYONE and MUST be followed IMMEDIATELY - you can sort out afterwards why you had to spend another few minutes in the circuit pattern, but in the air on final approach is not the time or place!
I’ve heard that mantra of “landing is optional”. Like people blindly quoting “aviate, navigate, communicate”, it is badly used and, in most cases rubbish.
@@EdOeuna The only cases I know of where it is genuinely rubbish are those to one-way airstrips, where you are committed from anything from a few hundred yards to several miles out. Those airstrips usually require a separate endorsement for each such airstrip and are definitely not for the faint-hearted. A few in the Alps, Himalayas, and some bush strips in other mountainous regions are like that, but they are very much the exception, not the rule.
@@phillee2814 - other than briefing a missed approach, landing is always option number 1. I don’t know where this phrase of “missed approach with an option for a landing” came from but it is seriously backwards.
I’m not suggesting, like in your training experience, that you should do everything possible to get the plane in the ground, but a stable approach always yields a good landing, ignoring 3rd party events like someone is slow to vacate the runway or windshear.
@@EdOeuna The point is the speed of reaction to a factor which causes a missed approach. If you are expecting it, it becomes automatic and you never need to shift any mental gears into going missed.
How many times on this and other channels do we hear of missed approaches which should have been made but the pilot(s) were task focused on getting on the ground, even when all the red flags were present? We have to work with the brain we have, not the brain as we'd like it to be, and real human brains become more focussed on a task the more difficult it gets, so it is not unusual for judgement to become clouded and red flags ignored when the task becomes too difficult and all perception of external factors moves out of the range of attention the human brain can deal with - which goes into tunnel vision as tasks become more complex.
To put it another way, it is hard to remember that you are intending to drain the swamp once you are up to your ass in alligators.
@@phillee2814 - I’ve recent discussed, on a similar channel to this, about pre- departure briefings. This other guy, a high time pilot apparently, told me that briefings were old fashioned and not necessary. If this sort of lazy approach is taken by pilots then I’m not surprised that similar lazy approaches are taken for arrival briefings.
An arrival briefing should include what happens during a missed approach. After that the brief is all about how you’ll land the plane and where you’ll vacate, etc. All approaches should expect to land, because that’s the expectation.
To brief that you’ll fly an approach and then fly the missed approach is wrong. You fly an approach and land, unless you bugger it up.
Thanks!
Thank you!!!
I started watching Your video last year Sir, i have to admit, one of the most technical and informative narrative report and detailed video, Its helps technical personal to realise how small things can make a big impact on the operation of flying machines or in the industry.
I am a Control System Engineer and even not from Aviation industry but I do understand the sensor, transducer and system and after watching your video, I have gained alot more knowledge.
I am a lecturer now a day and I have many apprentice and full time students that are going to be a Flught Engineer or Ground Engineer.
So we teach them transducer and PLC and Microcontroller etc. Other college teach them all the aero dynamic and mechanical stuff.
It's really helpful and I will encourge my Student to watch your Video.
Thank you for your hard work and commitment toward Safety.
I am same. Safety comes first for me all the time.
Have a nice Sunday Morning All.
Kind Regards
Raghbir
Petter, in the beginning you make a remark about the flightcrew, that the pilot flying in training didn't remark about his insecurity, although he liked the pilot monitoring.
Several years ago, a Dutch footballcoach became very famous in South Korea with the national team. One of his stories included the experience he had with junior and senior players. There was no criticizing of the senior colleagues, even though they still made mistakes.
So, pilot flying was not ready telling of his insecurity because - probably - this seniority-thing.
That’s a very possible reason, yes.
Power difference is a bane to Korean aviation, having mandatory military training plays a big role in this I guess
Perhaps still a lingering case of the same cultural hesitance to question authority figures that played such a huge role in Korean Air Cargo 8509.
@Jk, the difference is that in the KLM case it was more attributable to the individual. In Korea it is a social norm.
I remember this. The first thing that stood out was that the ILS was not operational do to maintenance/construction. Gross incompetence. It's one thing that the trainee was in over his head with the visual approach, but for the experienced instructor to not realize that this approach was going badly from the get-go is really frustrating. Forget about hurting someone's feelings, he needed to take control of that plane or declare a go-around to try it again with better preparation. These things are always tough to watch when perfectly good airplanes are flown into the ground on a beautiful day.
So happy i found your channel.!! I never knew that I was a fan of aviation videos till I started watching your channel. The amount of detail and explanation you put into every video is amazing. Thanks for all the fascinating videos 🙏🏾
I didn’t think I stood a chance of grasping the pitch modes and [especially] the vertical speed concepts, but thanks to Petter’s excellent teaching skills, I was wrong, and I think I actually got it! Considering that I’m a singer and have zero math or science abilities, it is amazing that I can understand anything about flying at all. I look forward to the weekends bringing a new Mentour upload and learning something new.
Its OK Ms Jay, dont worry that you know nothing about flying....Im a harpist with 20,000 hours on a four octave wide body Salvi but here, by golly, we are all experts!
There are very few situations where it's advisable to delay an evacuation. Coming to a halt after cartwheeling across the runway happens to be very much not one of them.
production keeps getting better and better!!!
Thanks for your comment TheMurderOne91! Stay tuned for more and please consider subscribing if you haven't done so already.
We do what we can! Thanks for noticing
I remember when this accident happened and how awful it was. I have NO aviation expertise, and you did a terrific job explaining the factors that led to this missed approach. I just can't understand why they didn't go around and try again, these are people's lives, and the stubbornness and foolishness is astounding. I've heard experienced aviation people say that you really only need the human pilot to take-off and land, the rest of the time the plane basically flies itself, because of all the advanced computers/autopilot.
Think of using cruise control on your car on a long highway trip. You turn on cruise control, you set the speed. If the speed limit changes, you change the speed. If the speed limit lowers while passing through a town, or a construction zone, you adjust the speed as needed.
If someone said that the cruise control is controlling the speed of the car, that's a true statement but it's misleading if they do not include the fact that you are the one deciding what the speed should be at any given time. The cruise control has no way to know how fast you should be going at any point during the trip, you have to tell it.
I'm surprised that these people that you know in aviation have made this misleading statement that pilots are not really needed except for takeoff and landing. During the entire flight the pilots determine the speed, altitude, heading, ascent and decent rate, all of which change several times during the trip. The autopilot has no way to know what speed, what heading, what altitude, etc. The pilots input this information into the autopilot throughout the flight. Without the pilots input the plane would fly in a straight line until it ran out of fuel.
There are many other important activities that pilots do during flight. And if some problem occurs, the system just tells the pilots what the problem is, the pilot has to decide what to do about it.
In theory all of this can be automated but it's not easy with current technology to program a computer to make all of the decisions that pilots make and use judgment to and handle unexpected situations.
People will tell you this will change soon, but they have been saying that for years.
Not exactly. If you don't set up the pre calculated computer inputs the plane will make mistakes and your approach will be skewed out of kilter & you may be below the glidescope and crash.
I think it's the particular Asian culture that is the problem. The PF was so afraid of his superiors that his thinking froze. That, or the circadian low, or both. The last thing they want to do is to lose face. I thought I could discuss theology with a Chinese guy once, but he always immediately started attacking and shaming a position I didn't even hold, probably in fear that I would say something that would discredit some position he did hold.
Take off land and especially be prepared for any type of emergency esp if the plane has a failure