My Journey from Flair Espresso to La Pavoni Europiccola
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ก.ย. 2024
- I explain some of the issues and mods I installed as I went from a keen Flair Espresso (Classic) machine user to a La Pavoni Europiccola user, and why I prefer it to the Flair now.
Mods:
Changed from 2-coil (minimo/massimo) to 1-coil heater with pressurestat
Bottomless portafilter with larger capacity
Puck screen
Bong Isolator
Flair temperature strip
Single-hole steam tip
Increased pressure from 0.8 to 1.4 bar
Other Details:
My model is a version 2.3 made between 1984 and 1990 I think.
13 or 14g typical dose with around 31g espresso out.
Group Head displayed temp of around 75 or 80'C before the shot to give the right water temperature at the puck for medium or lighter roasts.
Pre-infuse for around 10 seconds till around 3g out, then the shot takes around 25 seconds after that with reducing pressure on the lever towards the end.
I should mention units built after 2000 have water-hested groups instead of steam-heated so probably don't overheat as quickly but the Bong isolator fixes both.
Goofs:
I forgot how to pronounce Espresso, and said Espresho instead because video cameras stop brain function - แนวปฏิบัติและการใช้ชีวิต
Interesting video. I’ve used my La Pavoni professional virtually every day for over 20 years and it’s still great. The only thing I need do is every 18 months or so I change the group head seals. It’s a wonderful machine.
I'm still loving it. Lately using light roasts with the blooming espresso technique has given me some amazing results.
Coming here from your 7 year old video of Frothing milk with french press
Great info, nice mods. I have the Post millennium one which I like, and find the temperature is very good for what I do (mainly light roasts, 16g in, about 29g out, or whatever it gives me :p with a LONG 20-30 sec pre-infusion).
Some people seem to prefer the old 49mm version, but I would also find the steam escaping from the safety valve annoying /scary :D
I think the plastic sleeve in the post mil. is for temperature control reasons?
On my 800ml boiler, I think I've done 6 shots plus steaming a little milk once or twice, on a single tank. There is the 'Professional' versions which has a 1.6L boiler instead of the 800ml boiler, so twice the capacity, but otherwise I think it's basically the same machine! I wonder if you get more steam power with the larger boiler at the same temperature setting? Not sure how that would work (maybe just more longevity, which was never an issue for mine, but I do small amounts of milk).
I would expect the steam in the professional to be much the same. I think the slower heat up makes the professional less desirable to me. Even if I run out of water in the Europiccola, I use the remaining steam to heat a jug of water and refill with that as soon as the pressure is gone for a quick reheat if I need to make more coffee.
Pretty much everything I needed to know about this awesome machine. 🙏
What a joy to watch!
9:43 Did you do two separate takes? If not, I’d like to know your camera setup! (Just curious).
Either way, outstanding production!
I usually have 2 cameras on tripods recording at the same time so I can switch views. I used a clip-on mic with a long lead that plugs into one camera. I also have 2 led lights on a pole that used to be exterior house floodlights with some baking paper over the light to soften it. One camera is a Lumix GH4 and the other is an older Lumix camera. Both are micro four-thirds. i.e. everything is pretty cheap, no script, and using free editing software, and no camera-man. I did have to repeat the shot at that point to get the shot of pouring the latte art.
Actually after the milk steaming, the pressure should be largely released,. You should be able to take the portafilter without any drama.
Yes, that's right. If you do remove the portafilter too soon there can be a lot of drama! That makes you very careful next time!
Hi, great video! Just wondering: How did you install the bong isolator? Did you also purchase the boiler pipe connector removal tool?
Because mine is a pre-mill unit - i.e. - made before 2000 - there is no removal tool needed. The install is just undo 2 bolts, unscrew the water pipe, and then insert the isolator and screw the pipe back in and finish with the 2 longer bolts supplied. It's easy. I needed to re-tighten the bolts another 2 times over the next 2 weeks. You really only need 1 spanner/wrench. It might have been 10mm size by memory.
@@michaelporter000 Thanks! I just installed my isolator today. Very easy indeed.
First watched your manual milk frothing videos back then. Keep up the content!
Thanks - it's hard to find time to make videos but it's nice to get positive feedback!
Very cool, you lost me with the mods, but the results look fabulous! Good to know that you can successfully steam milk for cappuccinos. That is a common criticism of these machines. I'd like to start with one of these but think maybe I should get the Flair first? My semi-auto (Saeco Via Venezia) just died.
Please post an update on Flair Espresso vs La Pavoni Europiccola!!!
I'm still loving my La Pavoni and make around 5 lattes a day on it, but haven't used the Flair in ages now.
Thanks for Sharing 👍
Thank you for the help, Michael! I'd like one of these machines, but I don't know enough about them so I really appreciate the education. There's so much I don't understand yet, but I'm operating on limited funds so the more I know, the better! Cheers!
If your funds are limited, you probably need to aim for a good hand grinder and spend at least $200, and a second-hand Flair. Just microwave the milk if you take milk and you can have very good coffee.
Look at the 1Zpresso JX-Pro grinder which you will probably need to buy new not second hand.
Great review, Michael! Is the espresso flavor better on the La Pavoni than the Flair?
Interesting question. The good shots on both taste very good. The La Pavoni seems to have better body and sweeter shots, and is better at avoiding sourness with lighter roasts. I think the lever on the Flair allows you to generate more pressure and so can make more crema. The La Pavoni puck is not as thick so your grind needs to be a bit finer and that could lead to worse taste if your grinder is not good enough. Overall, the La Pavoni seems more forgiving than Flair. It takes a bit of preheating effort to avoid sour shots on the Flair, especially with light roasts. On the other hand, overheated shots on the La Pavoni is its main problem when making multiple shots in a row, i.e. more bitter tasting. The biggest difference is just the ability to steam milk on the same machine which makes espresso so much better.
@@michaelporter000 Thanks very much for the detailed reply. Cheers!
Great video! You answered many of my questions, particularly the portafilter size, and the various mods. Closeup shots of some of the mods would have helped your presentation, but I was able to zoom in and see what you were talking about. Thanks for posting.
Very useful!
bought my LP pro from the factory in 2002. i have done all the same mods as you about 15 years ago. also love it. but i have also bought a flair 58 for another home and i'm loving that too.
Hi Michael, great video! Very informative for someone who has recently purchased their first Pavoni. May I ask what grinder you are using?
I have a Macap M2M grinder, which has 50mm flat stainless steel burrs. I also have a Commandante M40 hand grinder for when I'm traveling on holidays (yes, I take my La Pavoni with me if possible).
@@michaelporter000 how do you rate the Macap M2M for use with a La Pavoni? I also have a C40 but I’m struggling with it - I can’t seem to find the right setting. I’m at the stage where I’m tossing up between the Red Clix C40 upgrade and a decent electric grinder.
@@jordancoburn104 I think it is a good choice for a home grinder if you want flat burrs. It's basic and makes a bit of a mess, but less mess if I use a dosing cup. It's cheaper than most - maybe Baratza Sette 270 may be better in some ways, like for single-dosing. It has a bit too much retention. It tastes a bit different to the C40 but both are good. I aim for 14g and use a puck screen. I don't aim to get right up to 9 bar but pre-infuse well then adjust pressure to get the time about right. I haven't tried the Red Clix upgrade and instead just adjust my dose a bit if needed. Does that help?
Nice and I nstructive reel which helps very much to !understand" the little and "chromy" espresso maker: there one and only classic c machine for the manually controlled coffee making. Thank you very much - also for the interesting tipps about modding !
This was one of the most enjoyable and informative video that I can remember watching. Well done! Now I am looking into getting a machine and diving into the rabbit hole head first. Thank you.
Very useful and helpful tips, thanks! I just bought the Professional one, and already ordered the bottomless portafilter and temperature strip. Might get a puck screen at some point 🤔
You are making it hard on yourself. I kept La Pavoni for showoff and used standalone manual steamer on top of induction cooktop for temperature control Then I used Flair with pressure control.
Thanks for the vídeo. Can You talk about the grinder that you used?
I use a Macap M2M grinder, which is a very basic stepped grinder with 50 mm flat burrs (rather than conical). I replaced the hopper with a generic single-dose bellows hopper which is ok but requires quite a few presses to get all the grounds out. The grinder is not a low retention grinder but the results are good and it's reliable and not expensive.
Thanks for this review. I've been looking at both and it seems to me that LP suits my use.
Very helpful 👌 Ive just begun looking for a pre-millenial:) Any other thingsvto look forvwhen buying a used machine? Tysm!
Look for rust especially under the drip tray. Look for bent steam wand pipes. Decide whether you want a pressure stat or the 2 stage heating switch- I much prefer the former but others swear the latter is best. Not so easy to change later but not impossible. Check general chrome appearance for any missing or not smooth bits. Leaks can all be fixed except maybe the underside of the boiler.
Exactly the video I needed. Thanks ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️
Outstanding information 👌
I noticed you added a custom black extension gasket from group head to boiler with longer bolts. Where did you purchase that mod?
It's a "Bong isolator" from coffee-sensor.com. It changes my steam-heated group head to water heated and makes temperature much more controllable. coffee-sensor.com/product/bong-isolator-and-water-heated-grouphead-mod-for-la-pavoni/
Outstanding well done and thanks for tips!
try lifting the handle just before the water comes out then load portafilter handle into group then do your normal pull.. see if that removes some of that spongey air feel
Yes, I always do that but it is still a bit spongey compared to Flair. There is an air buster kit for La Pavoni to fix this issue, but I don't find it much of a problem.
yeah Im looking at that too and pressure profiling gauge .. looks to be a nice piece of kit . I was having several issues.. I spent much time as a roaster and commercial machine restorer but this little thing perplexed me and I moved on to other machine's but now back playing with it... I have no issues getting nice microfoam even with stock 3 hole tip but the shots have been very inconstant.. sometimes lever would just be stuck up and cannot pull down and sometimes just goes right now with no resistance... i came to conclusion im over pressured because its too hot and maybe not pulling up some before pulling shot... when I started doing that and monitoring pressure after adding my gauge.. that settled down... we will see if its consistant.. for now it seems to be @@michaelporter000
The lever lift technique didn't change much and it was still very spongy at the bottom on my LP Esperto Abile - the problem's only solved after getting AirBuster from CS guys. I'm still testing it but now there's absolutely no sponginess at all. However, lately my espresso starts to squirt a bit from IMS portafilter's filter which didn't happen but might be related to coffee beans or other things. Will do back to beans soon that didn't case it and then will confirm. Also, the overflow pipe in AirBuster sometimes can release a lot more water than it normally does - don't know why but most of the time it's steam or few drops. The shots are great though and can take out portafilter within seconds without having to wait for the remaining pressure in group (that pretty much was always building up without AirBuster) to be released somehow.
@@dparham I'm also experiencing the problem of quick flow vs very slow. The first shot flows quicker than subsequent ones for no apparent reason - same beans, grinder settings, amount of coffee, group temperature and pressure applied from the outset so it's still a puzzle but happens less frequent now. Normally it would be caused by grinding beans too coarse or too fine but it's not the case when none of settings change.
@@anylookup I dont use mine tat often, since ive gone back to just espresso when I was using the pavoli for microfoam. I use a Portapresso device which has a lot of control and very consiseant its hand made out of Austraila
Can I contact you to ask some questions? Like where you bought all these upgrades?
I think all the upgrades are available from coffee-sensor.com. I'm in Australia and shipping was very quick.
Very helpful, thank you!
Hi Michael.
Great video and it actually inspired me to do a complete overhaul on my La Pavoni
Including the boiler/base seal exchanged.
Your video is very informative and helped me immensely.
Can I ask where did you by the bong isolator from?
It came from coffee-sensor.com
Great video, you covered everything.
Gday Michael, is your basket the nominally 18 - 20g 'competition' basket?
I don't think so. I use it with a 14g dose and it has plenty of space for a puck screen. I bought it from espressocare.com as a "deep double basket" that came with a bottomless portafilter.
Thank you for this video (good info), i had the La Pavoni & the Flair down to my 1st espresso machine - i have now decided = La Povoni (but a new one)
I'm still loving my La Pavoni. If you buy new, you should still factor in buying some upgrades - like a temperature strip and puck screen and possibly a single hole steam nozzle as a start. I have the extended single hole steam tip now and would recommend that. All from coffee-sensor.com.
Hi Michael, thanks for a great review. Can you supply links to where to buy the mods?
I suggest going to coffee-sensor.com for parts and upgrades. Delivery to Australia was super fast (so anywhere else will be too) and their range is huge.
Great video.
Sounds like this is not a good purchase with all the mods that you had to make in order to get it to work just the way you want it to.
Have you compared this to the cafeLat robot with the Bellman steamer?
No, I haven't tried that. I actually enjoy doing the mods, and you can use it without the mods by using other methods of cooling things down.
Nice video and mods. I don't think the bong isolator is necessary on the newer model it kinda has a similar idea built in already.
What's the thing you used to keep the steam wand from moving?
It's just a fibre washer. Buy it where you get plumbing fittings. A rubber washer may suffice but fibre is a bit more durable and better with heat. You can see it in the video in the other viewpoint when I'm steaming the milk.
@@michaelporter000 Ah cool I see it at that point yes, next question was going to be where to put it but I see how it works now. You remember the size? Also which steam tip? :)
Super helpful. Thank you.
Whew. For that price why didn’t you get a flair 58 and a stagg ekg?
Expensive but worth it. Makes the best coffee and has milk steaming all in one unit. Fast heat up and you don't need a kettle. Always enjoyable to use. It's even easy to take on holidays too.
mike. don't slouch.
Great video. Thanks so much for sharing👍☕️
Thanks. You're welcome!
How did u keep the temp down on the group head? I have problems on my second shot with heat…
I installed a "Bong Isolator" bought from Coffee Sensor which makes a huge difference in preventing overheating on pre 2000 machines.
Hey, does puck screen reduces the amount of coffee you can put in the portafilter?
Yes, but I'm using an 18g basket when I only dose up to around 14g so there is plenty of room.
Nice video! This machine doesnt have any sleeve inside the group head?
No. Just solid metal on this unit with no sleeve. I think it is around 1985 design.
At 16:00 the Sideglass. Just to be sure: is it made of actual glass or plastic?
It's a glass tube protected by a plastic cover. You can buy a replacement glass tube that has metal sides to allow you to remove the plastic cover.
Good review!
Which make/model for the portafilter and puck screen?
The portafilter probably came from coffee-sensor.com. I had trouble finding a puck screen and ended up buying a larger one and grinded it down to size. Hopefully you can find one to avoid that job.
@@michaelporter000 Tudor at coffee sensor has been super helpful throughout my learning process and post sale - spent almost the same amount as my LP on upgrades and stuff with them too! hehe
Brilliant review, Michael. Thank you ! All I needed to know about the Europiccola in one handy Video ! Out of interest, now you've owned the machine for a while, would you consider owning / needing / wanting the "professional" version which has a larger Water Tank ?
No. I think the Europiccola is better because it heats up faster and it makes 5 lattes easy, which is usually enough. If not, I use the last steam to heat up a jug of water to both depressurize and use that hot water for refilling so it is quickly ready to go again. The boiler Pressure gauge is cheap and very easy to add too.
@@michaelporter000 and no plastic group sleeve to replace... it costed over €90 and injuries because a removal tool that I got simply damaged two teeth in the plastic and had to melt then use hammer to remove it! The tool was useful for screwing back in a new brass sleeve. I will probably get the EuroPicola as well at some point to test both side by side. I don't understand why LP after so many years didn't solve key problems and force users to do / spend extra on upgrades...
What tamper is that?
I was looking at both of these machines and you inspired me to nab a 1975 Europiccola! Loving the simplicity of this machine.
I added most of your mods and the bong isolator with the temperature strip is the most essential for me in order to keep the temperature stable.
I already had a pressure gauge but as I received an extra temperature strip (for higher temps) I added that one to the boiler and I tend to use that rather than the gauge now.
I can’t add the pressure stat to my machine (as it has a screw in boiler) but it is not much of an issue to manually flick the switch on and off to stay in range for those looking to save some cash. I think newer machines have the pressure stat already installed.
I picked up a hand grinder to keep with the manual theme and it produces great results. It’s the 1Zpresso JX Pro.
If you grab an old machine and want to clean it out, fill the boiler with a heated citric acid and water mix for a couple of hours it works a treat.
Thanks for your good comments. The more I use my La Pavoni, the more I enjoy it. I keep looking at other machines (obsessively) but nothing else offers enough to consider changing. I love the quietness of the machine, which is much better with a pressure stat because then steam isn't hissing all the time.
You have all the mods so all you need now is a gold bird for the top and you can call it a day. 😊
Great video, glad you included milk frothing, your milk looked good, how would rate the pavoni for frothing milk as I mainly drink flat whites? Thanks.
It was terrible at first. The first fix is to get a single-hole steam tip to replace the 3-hole. Then you need to adjust the machine to run at a higher pressure. Mine was about 0.8 bar which was too low. I tried 1.4 bar and it was excellent, but now I run at 1.2 bar which is the lowest boiler temperature that allows for good microfoam for me.
@@michaelporter000 thanks!
@@michaelporter000 Why did you decide to drop to 1.2bar? Great video, very informative
Hey Michael, can you reccommend any coffee beans for Australians?
I have been getting beans delivered from MyCuppa at www.mycuppa.com.au and been very happy. They have good service, wide choice, and great prices around $30/kg. They have a special blend each month that has been great. I tend to buy 2kg at a time and freeze in zip-lock bags and then ensure they are fully defrosted before opening. If instead, you want the cheapest option, I have found that Coles own brand beans called Urban Coffee Culture are good value if you find one that has 11 months left before their use-by date, i.e. get them freshly roasted. They are clearly not as high quality or as complex favour as what MyCuppa offers.
Try ona coffee or alchemy
Is there a 58 mm Porter filter version of this espresso maker?
Sadly, no. It would have required a much longer lever and would ruin the aesthetic. The smaller basket is fine for me.
This allows/forces you to make a smaller double espresso. It’s not better or worse, just different.
I agree with Michael.
Ah i wish to see how u did all those modifications
You can probably find a TH-cam video on all the mods one by one. E.g. search for La Pavoni Bong Isolator for that mod, then La Pavoni steam tip replacement, then La Pavoni boiler pressure gauge etc.
Go to Coffee Sensor website where each of the mods have an installation video at the bottom - they're great dedicated coffee guys and have been always helpful. As mentioned, there are also plenty of videos on YT some showing complete rebuild.
It seems a lot of money for a manual device.. for that kind of money (plus mods) you may as well go for a pumped system.
Yes, I thought it was a lot too. The coffee is unbeatable though, and the process is surprisingly rewarding.
I currently have a ROK with a couple mods and the La Pavoni would be an upgrade for sure but a couple things put me of, like, the unit being super hot but mostly, and this isn't the fault of the machine, I don't think my Mrs would handle the workflow and this would mean she will make me a filter coffee in the morning instead and I would like to avoid that :D.. so I am looking at a Lelit but its a hard decision@@michaelporter000
Kind of like preferring a manual transmission for the more engaging driving experience, don’t you think?
Not the same shots - from pretty every home pumped machine espressos are quite dull but you'd have to taste both to understand.
Thank you Michael. My Professional is on it's way c/w the Bong and Single hole frother. Your insights have made me hope it comes tomorrow! I also have the Macap grinder so expect a good match.
I'm still loving mine. I'm very happy I bought a bottomless portafilter, a shot mirror, a wdt (Weiss needle distribution tool), a puck-screen, and a Flair temperature indication sticker, and a tamper (rather than the plastic one supplied) so there are some suggestions for you to consider on your journey.
After 2.5yrs of owning my lapavoni Stradivari I’ve found that it’s very inconsistent. The first shot is basically a waste. The 2nd shot is averagely ok and 3rd shot probably the best but anything more I’ve found that the group head overheats way too much resulting in too much pressure when releasing the portafilter from the group head which makes the left over coffee in the portafilter basically spurting everywhere! I have now bought a group head isolator and a single hole steam tip as you’ve mentioned the 3 hole tip again took me about 3 months too finally master the technique of frothing milk. As of now I pull all my espresso shots from my flair and I get a very consistent base shot from it.
Also my seals from the lapavoni have only just worn out (group head seals) which is expected from a maintenance view. Looking forward to the isolator so I can make more coffees without overheating the group head.
Temperature is hard to manage but the Bong isolator is a game changer. A puck screen also helps prevent the mess when opening the portafilter when it has pressure.
First, you need a temperature strip to know if your group head is up to temp before making any shot so that you don't always screw up your first and second shots. Dry pump the lever until the group head is at 80-85 Celsius depending on toast level of your coffee. 2nd, you get coffee spurt everywhere because you release your portafilter too early. Simply wait 30 sec after your shot finish will solve the spirting problem. 3rd, to get consistency, you need to manage temp, and also use the same pressure when pulling shots. You need a piston pressure kit to know what your brew pressure is.
With all those milk can you even taste the texture of the bean anymore?
Milk and coffee is a wonderful combination, but just plain espresso is good too. I have both at different times.
Can you link to the brand/size of pressure gauge you used? Cheers 👍
Buy from coffee-sensor.com/ to match your model. Boiler gauge replacement is easy - just need to use enough of the provided teflon tape to enable you to point the gauge forward when tight enough to have no steam leaks.