Politicians here in the USA are professionals when it comes to knee-jerk reactions. They propose ludicrous regulations so they'll be seen as "doing something" without learning anything about the subject matter.
I have this song stuck in my head "99 pico balloons Floating in the summer sky Panic bells, it's red alert There's something here from somewhere else The war machine springs to life Opens up one eager eye......"
I just went to send Sen. Mark Kelly a message, asking him to reconsider his position on requiring transponders on experimental balloons. I'd suggest anyone else concerned about it do the same -- let him know that this will squelch STEM education, and reduce the ability of regular citizens, many of whom are young students, from participating in the scientific process. Who knows, maybe a little pushback might help.
FOD is a serious issue in jet engines. Compressor and turbine blades are very thin and delicate. The rpm's they spin at generate massive centrifugal forces on the blades. The forces are so great that there have been cases of turbine blades being given a "protective coating" That has resulted in the blade increasing in weight slightly, that then increased the centrifugal force significantly enough for blade failure. The company I used to work for didn't' want you removing your foam earplugs outside incase one ended up being injested by a turbine engine! So I'd say the risk of engine damage from one of these balloons / payload is real, but the odds of it happening low. 73
Jet engines are designed to take bird strikes below a certain size without damage. Small items like these typically don't enter the compressor, they're slung into the bypass duct by the fan and go around the central jet engine turbine and out the back just like deluges of rain water do. Jet engines are tested with 76 pounds of water per second passing through them. A few hundred gram payload isn't likely to take one out in the very rare case that one would be ingested.
@2:14 and it won't be found/recovered either -the RCMP (our national police/security force) stated earlier today the search is being abandoned. Apparently the target is just too small, and recent snow in the area has covered up any trace evidence.
Ignorance and Paranoia are the biggest problems here in the US. When I launch, I always file a NOTAM (Notice to Aimen) - more of a CYA effort on my part. Solution for US is simple actually. Have NORAD and NORCOM provide free very light weight supercap ID transmitters for hobby groups/ Ham Radio groups and perhaps US Weather Service. They gave us free COVID testing kits - why not free ID transmitters. One missile saved would cover the costs. Good video. Thank you.
I would think some clever startup could devise a micro ID transmitter better than our Military. Perhaps the tech could be useful, in a similar way, for self-driving cars to supplement situational data. - bigger market
@@paulsengupta971 Some yes...Some No. Some balloon groups use cell phones, Iridium or SPOT or Garmin Units which ID to private emails or text numbers. Those cannot be tracked by anyone except select individuals.
@@B.Murphy I have a 1950's budget house outside of Cleveland. Modest little neighborhood. Still, wonder if a brrrrt would have been a cheaper way to take out the smaller balloons.
Take note too that the missile that shot down the Chinese balloon didn't appear to explode. I've been curious if the military has 'practice' missiles used for training that perhaps cost far less since they might be used to train pilots. I don't know if this is the case, but I'm curious if any military aviators might be able to comment if such weapons exist. Even if they do exist, I'm sure they aren't cheap.
From everything I've seen on these recent balloon assaults the number $600,000 dollars for the Aim 9x keeps coming up. Regarding the 💥 boom (or lack thereof) an explosives payload is removable and also there are different configurations that can be implemented. My current favorite warhead is the deploying swords package used for reducing collateral damage when targeting vehicles.
Interesting that no one has said anything about the balloons launched 2 times a day, every day, from all the national weather service forecast offices in the US. Thats 122 balloons twice a day.
The whole Balloon affair was nothing more than a diversion of the public from what the government determined was a more important crisis..keep the mind of the public away from a losing war in Ukraine and the damning report about the North-stream pipeline. Has it worked? Sure it has, look at your daily news and see the difference between war reporting before and after this incident.
It's funny I grew up on the great lakes and now live close to yukon border. I think ballon launches are very cool. In Canada all you have to do to launch a ballon is notify the local airport.
What it comes down to is somebody in the Air Force needed an EPR bullet (evaluation performance report) So they could get a firewall five and be promoted immediately. They chose a weather balloon as it's an easy target. The EPR bullet would read something like - "protected top level assets In a rapid manner, saving the United States millions of dollars" . That's how the Air Force works, everything's for recognition lol
By the way, I guess I'll be the buzz kill now. When you're in the military even as an officer, you look out for your troops and for your troops troops. Meaning as an officer, you oversee a group of people, some are enlisted. And in their best interest, you look out to help them with their evaluation performance report and ensure that your troops get firewall fives and their troops get firewall fives or as close to possible. It doesn't matter if you're in aviation or not, it's a group mission and therefore EPR bullets are a thing whether you're writing them or you're earning them. You can't deny that
Your average turbine engine more than often a IAE V2500 varient fitted to say a A320 will injest and spit out a human body without any problems whatsoever so a small pico balloon is a walk in the park, i don't even know how many birds i have sadly turned into pulp when flying. This is the reason ground crews have white 'do not enter zones' marked in white around the aircraft when we are at a stand and the engines are running, about two months ago i read an accident report of a baggage handler who did not stay outside of the zone and was promptly sucked into the running left hand engine (Captains side of the acft) and was spat out !
Yeah, there are a lot of other things that get sucked into jet engines that are less concern than a small sheet of mylar, a string, and a PCB a couple inches across.
It doesn't matter if it costs a couple of thousand. It still doesn't justify the action that NORAD took on that ballon. All they would have had to do is do a little research. The data that thing would be squawking out is available to ANYONE who cared to retrieve it. No subversion, no secrets. aprs.fi; VHF 144.390; frequency counter - any of those tools would have revealed what that ballon was about. Nope; no dice. They shot it down. Boy, I feel safe...
@@HamRadioDX Josh stop making sense. These folks are NEVER going to get it. They think this was a mylar balloon shaped like Garfield or a dragon, with a $10 transistor radio hanging on it!
In the UK we have a clause that states "The Radio Equipment may not be established or used in any Aircraft or Airborne Vehicle." This includes balloons. There may be exemptions available for beacons, though
@@_MisterG good clause! What about if plane is hijacked and some ham is trying to help the authorities? Is there a clause for it? Hijackers won't allow the ham to release a balloon for beaconing.
We have launch small payloads here in Portugal and need to request permitindo to civil air autorities. A notam os issued. Payloads may inclusive rádio beacons transponders, câmeras, cientific data experiente, etc.
The message America sends in all this ballon guff is that nothing is too big or small for them to engage and hit. Don’t mess with America even on this scale, and that’s the message of the day for bullies should they try it on. Thanks to the USAF and military for the demo. Impressive stuff!
This has GOT to be the 10th time I've done this, but WTH, I have it down pat by now. 1st - the cost of those missiles vs the possible cost to the citizens of the country is about $800 per missile. MY life is worth the $800 in tax dollars, sorry if YOURS isn't. 2nd - the pilots have NO way to tell what the balloon is doing. The balloon, if even a high speed convection, MIGHT be 100mph, in a really strong wind. The stall speed of the F-22 is above 150mph. Could YOU figure out what 'that thing' is or what it's doing, while flying by at speeds like that? Can you read a mailbox, while driving past at 50 to 100mph? 3rd - EVEN a senior level pilot is given orders by his SUPERIORS. In this case, it would appear that the orders to shoot these down came from THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES. And as no one knew WHAT the bogie was, there WAS a legal order given, so the pilot(s) had NO WAY to deny taking the actions called for. I'm a veteran, so do I think this is a stupid situation? Yes. But the major stupidity, IMO, seems to be coming from Monday Morning Quarterbacks, many of whom are NOT veterans and who do NOT understand how the Uniform Code of Military Justice works. Who think those pilots REALIZED what they were shooting at, and did so with malice toward the tax payers on the hook for the $400K and against the ham radio COMMUNITY as a group. BTW, I'm also an amateur radio guy, so here's the question, have any of you tried to see if there's a GoFundMe to help replace this guy's / club's gear? If you didn't but didn't find one, why not START one? Here's why I think no one has done that and just continue to make fun of the military. It's easy to sit at you keyboard and shoot your mouths off, because you KLNOW there is no rebound on you, there is no possibility of getting your @$$ kicked, so you just keep flipping your lips. And as of 16:16 eastern stupid time on the east coast here, there is NO fund for these guys. So, do you really care about their losses or are you just running off at the mouth?
@@paulsengupta971 Yeah, we're @$$ deep in missiles flying around. Here's the question Paul, why didn't you say, typical JOE BIDEN attitude? Because WE, the regular Americans, did not get a vote on the missile firing.
Chasing Radiosonde Weather Balloons ⬇️
th-cam.com/users/livefb9gNomWrAY?feature=share
Politicians here in the USA are professionals when it comes to knee-jerk reactions. They propose ludicrous regulations so they'll be seen as "doing something" without learning anything about the subject matter.
Not only in US. Politicians are incapable of real thinking.
A laser take one of these down. The missile was for show.
This is just more Joe Liden bullshit. Looking for a scapegoat to blame for the "balloon scare."
You are so correct
@@wannabecarguy And which laser system currently in the US arsenal would you have used?
I have this song stuck in my head "99 pico balloons
Floating in the summer sky
Panic bells, it's red alert
There's something here from somewhere else
The war machine springs to life
Opens up one eager eye......"
I just went to send Sen. Mark Kelly a message, asking him to reconsider his position on requiring transponders on experimental balloons. I'd suggest anyone else concerned about it do the same -- let him know that this will squelch STEM education, and reduce the ability of regular citizens, many of whom are young students, from participating in the scientific process. Who knows, maybe a little pushback might help.
FOD is a serious issue in jet engines. Compressor and turbine blades are very thin and delicate. The rpm's they spin at generate massive centrifugal forces on the blades. The forces are so great that there have been cases of turbine blades being given a "protective coating" That has resulted in the blade increasing in weight slightly, that then increased the centrifugal force significantly enough for blade failure. The company I used to work for didn't' want you removing your foam earplugs outside incase one ended up being injested by a turbine engine! So I'd say the risk of engine damage from one of these balloons / payload is real, but the odds of it happening low.
73
FOD check! We had to do those all the time. It must not have been a big deal on gravel runways that we were flying into though lol
Jet engines are designed to take bird strikes below a certain size without damage. Small items like these typically don't enter the compressor, they're slung into the bypass duct by the fan and go around the central jet engine turbine and out the back just like deluges of rain water do. Jet engines are tested with 76 pounds of water per second passing through them. A few hundred gram payload isn't likely to take one out in the very rare case that one would be ingested.
Tested Frozen chickens?
@@davepickering997 that was the Americans. Into the windscreens. Had to get help from the poms 🤣
@2:14 and it won't be found/recovered either -the RCMP (our national police/security force) stated earlier today the search is being abandoned. Apparently the target is just too small, and recent snow in the area has covered up any trace evidence.
No duh... mission assignment: find a circuit board a few inches across *somewhere in the Yukon territory*. Good luck!
If only it had a transmitter on board transmitting its callsign and location...
Great video mate
Thanks Lewis
Ignorance and Paranoia are the biggest problems here in the US. When I launch, I always file a NOTAM (Notice to Aimen) - more of a CYA effort on my part. Solution for US is simple actually. Have NORAD and NORCOM provide free very light weight supercap ID transmitters for hobby groups/ Ham Radio groups and perhaps US Weather Service. They gave us free COVID testing kits - why not free ID transmitters. One missile saved would cover the costs. Good video. Thank you.
Makes way too much sense to actually happen
I would think some clever startup could devise a micro ID transmitter better than our Military. Perhaps the tech could be useful, in a similar way, for self-driving cars to supplement situational data. - bigger market
These things already have an ID transmitter n them, they transmit their callsigns!
@@paulsengupta971 Some yes...Some No. Some balloon groups use cell phones, Iridium or SPOT or Garmin Units which ID to private emails or text numbers. Those cannot be tracked by anyone except select individuals.
He would be a great speaker on balloons for the next tassie hamfest
Excellent video and interview Hayden
Ever killed ants with a hammer? ...or the Sun?
I about feel on the floor when I heard it was a pico balloon 🎈
You couldn't buy that level of hobby/club publicity for just $13 🤣
Thank you for making such an inclusive and informative amateur balloon video!
Thanks James!
Actually 900,000.00 just under a million the first heat seeking missile missed its target and they fired a second at 400-450,000 to total 900k😮
Glad they burned through enough money to buy 6 US houses... I'm over here running around turning off unnecessary lights to save a few cents..
six houses?! Thats like two- three in Utah....
That makes it even more funny.
@@B.Murphy I have a 1950's budget house outside of Cleveland. Modest little neighborhood. Still, wonder if a brrrrt would have been a cheaper way to take out the smaller balloons.
@@Frankh77 I'm in a 1950s house on .125 acres. Current price, 460k.....
They had to fire twice because the first missile missed the target🤦🏻♂️
That was for the balloon over the great lakes, not this one.
I have the QRP Labs transponder (20m WSPR).....might wait for launch? :)
Take note too that the missile that shot down the Chinese balloon didn't appear to explode. I've been curious if the military has 'practice' missiles used for training that perhaps cost far less since they might be used to train pilots. I don't know if this is the case, but I'm curious if any military aviators might be able to comment if such weapons exist. Even if they do exist, I'm sure they aren't cheap.
What I can tell you is that the cost of fuel for one of the jets to fly a mission is significant.
From everything I've seen on these recent balloon assaults the number $600,000 dollars for the Aim 9x keeps coming up. Regarding the 💥 boom (or lack thereof) an explosives payload is removable and also there are different configurations that can be implemented. My current favorite warhead is the deploying swords package used for reducing collateral damage when targeting vehicles.
The tracking devices in the missile make it cost so much
I reckon we are pico seconds from HAB being outlawed.
I suspect that small weather balloon prices in the near future will drop then go up in price when they become a controlled item.
Interesting that no one has said anything about the balloons launched 2 times a day, every day, from all the national weather service forecast offices in the US. Thats 122 balloons twice a day.
It is a "damned if they do, damned if they don't" situation, really. Don't shoot quick enough? Criticism. Shoot them all? Criticism. 🤷♂
Yes, well, they are not far off doing that with the Nuclear buttons, aren't they. Not long to go now, it won't matter, will it.
The whole Balloon affair was nothing more than a diversion of the public from what the government determined was a more important crisis..keep the mind of the public away from a losing war in Ukraine and the damning report about the North-stream pipeline. Has it worked? Sure it has, look at your daily news and see the difference between war reporting before and after this incident.
It's funny I grew up on the great lakes and now live close to yukon border. I think ballon launches are very cool. In Canada all you have to do to launch a ballon is notify the local airport.
What it comes down to is somebody in the Air Force needed an EPR bullet (evaluation performance report) So they could get a firewall five and be promoted immediately. They chose a weather balloon as it's an easy target. The EPR bullet would read something like - "protected top level assets In a rapid manner, saving the United States millions of dollars" . That's how the Air Force works, everything's for recognition lol
@B Tenold apparently you all didn't have jokes in aviation..
By the way, I guess I'll be the buzz kill now. When you're in the military even as an officer, you look out for your troops and for your troops troops. Meaning as an officer, you oversee a group of people, some are enlisted. And in their best interest, you look out to help them with their evaluation performance report and ensure that your troops get firewall fives and their troops get firewall fives or as close to possible. It doesn't matter if you're in aviation or not, it's a group mission and therefore EPR bullets are a thing whether you're writing them or you're earning them. You can't deny that
Also, doesn't afi 36-2406 establish an officer performance report?
I think all baloons are gonna need crazy protocols to meet as worldwide tensions are on edge.🤔
Think it was more like $800 because, you know, they missed at least once with a guided missle....
That wasn't this balloon.
Sanity will not prevail.
This is going too far! America has declared war on Ham Radio!!! A day I will never forget.
Just look at the over regulation being imposed on model aircraft
Your average turbine engine more than often a IAE V2500 varient fitted to say a A320 will injest and spit out a human body without any problems whatsoever so a small pico balloon is a walk in the park, i don't even know how many birds i have sadly turned into pulp when flying.
This is the reason ground crews have white 'do not enter zones' marked in white around the aircraft when we are at a stand and the engines are running, about two months ago i read an accident report of a baggage handler who did not stay outside of the zone and was promptly sucked into the running left hand engine (Captains side of the acft) and was spat out !
Yeah, there are a lot of other things that get sucked into jet engines that are less concern than a small sheet of mylar, a string, and a PCB a couple inches across.
The US used sharpened sticks
100foot wide balloon for 13 bucks, where can i buy one?
Lol, cmon we know the balloon didn’t cost $13. Couple hundred at most. Totally reasonable to shoot down with a rocket. 😂
😂😂 totally!
It doesn't matter if it costs a couple of thousand. It still doesn't justify the action that NORAD took on that ballon. All they would have had to do is do a little research. The data that thing would be squawking out is available to ANYONE who cared to retrieve it. No subversion, no secrets. aprs.fi; VHF 144.390; frequency counter - any of those tools would have revealed what that ballon was about. Nope; no dice. They shot it down. Boy, I feel safe...
@@HamRadioDX Josh stop making sense. These folks are NEVER going to get it. They think this was a mylar balloon shaped like Garfield or a dragon, with a $10 transistor radio hanging on it!
Any idea whether the launch requirements in Europe are more similar to you guys in Australia, or to the US?
Ask a European
In the UK we have a clause that states "The Radio Equipment may not be established or used in any Aircraft or Airborne Vehicle." This includes balloons. There may be exemptions available for beacons, though
@@_MisterG good clause! What about if plane is hijacked and some ham is trying to help the authorities? Is there a clause for it? Hijackers won't allow the ham to release a balloon for beaconing.
We have launch small payloads here in Portugal and need to request permitindo to civil air autorities. A notam os issued. Payloads may inclusive rádio beacons transponders, câmeras, cientific data experiente, etc.
and what about the kids toy called a solar balloon some of which can be quiet large and float at 40,000' for days if not longer
Just what the US needs is more regulation!
Why use a $400000 missile
A $10 bullet will do the same thing
Correction, this cost taxpayers $400,000 and this is tax fraud.
the balloon didn't cost them anything.
Hey, that balloon was dangerous! It destroyed a million dollars worth of unmanned drones before it was taken down!
The message America sends in all this ballon guff is that nothing is too big or small for them to engage and hit. Don’t mess with America even on this scale, and that’s the message of the day for bullies should they try it on. Thanks to the USAF and military for the demo. Impressive stuff!
This has GOT to be the 10th time I've done this, but WTH, I have it down pat by now.
1st - the cost of those missiles vs the possible cost to the citizens of the country is about $800 per missile. MY life is worth the $800 in tax dollars, sorry if YOURS isn't.
2nd - the pilots have NO way to tell what the balloon is doing. The balloon, if even a high speed convection, MIGHT be 100mph, in a really strong wind. The stall speed of the F-22 is above 150mph. Could YOU figure out what 'that thing' is or what it's doing, while flying by at speeds like that? Can you read a mailbox, while driving past at 50 to 100mph?
3rd - EVEN a senior level pilot is given orders by his SUPERIORS. In this case, it would appear that the orders to shoot these down came from THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES. And as no one knew WHAT the bogie was, there WAS a legal order given, so the pilot(s) had NO WAY to deny taking the actions called for.
I'm a veteran, so do I think this is a stupid situation? Yes. But the major stupidity, IMO, seems to be coming from Monday Morning Quarterbacks, many of whom are NOT veterans and who do NOT understand how the Uniform Code of Military Justice works. Who think those pilots REALIZED what they were shooting at, and did so with malice toward the tax payers on the hook for the $400K and against the ham radio COMMUNITY as a group.
BTW, I'm also an amateur radio guy, so here's the question, have any of you tried to see if there's a GoFundMe to help replace this guy's / club's gear? If you didn't but didn't find one, why not START one?
Here's why I think no one has done that and just continue to make fun of the military. It's easy to sit at you keyboard and shoot your mouths off, because you KLNOW there is no rebound on you, there is no possibility of getting your @$$ kicked, so you just keep flipping your lips.
And as of 16:16 eastern stupid time on the east coast here, there is NO fund for these guys. So, do you really care about their losses or are you just running off at the mouth?
Lol, entertaining
Typical American attitude. "I've no idea what it is so I'm going to shoot it."
@@paulsengupta971 Yeah, we're @$$ deep in missiles flying around.
Here's the question Paul, why didn't you say, typical JOE BIDEN attitude?
Because WE, the regular Americans, did not get a vote on the missile firing.
Bidenomics