Just a quick side by side comparing the new reissue of the Mesa/boogie mark IIC+ against a 1991 mkIV rev A. They both excel in different areas. Really cool to have both!
I agree with the low end of the 2c+. I'm dialing in a studio tone with a JP2c now and I can't get it to sound chunky (as I would want) without an EQ in the loop. Also have to retract some low mids.
I have a Mark IVa like you and have never had the opportunity to A/B it with a IIC+, but I analyzed the schematics and they aren't all that different. To get the IVa in the ballpark you need to set the rear switches to triode, simulclass, and harmonics. The presence control should also be pulled (pushed has a lot less NFB similar to a Recto). On a IVa, the lead "fat" switch is equivalent to the treble "shift" on a IIC+. On the IIC+, the bass "shift" and vol 1 "bright" switches aren't in the in the IVa circuit at all. Lead "bright" switches are the same on both amps. Also, the "deep" switch on a IIC+ is basically always active in the IVa circuit and can't be defeated, but running the lead master low and global master high might make it less bass heavy. I also think the IIC+ GEQ might have less range than the IVa.
You can hear that upper mid-range "click" of the pick attack on the IV, it definitely a great sound, but I totally get why the IIC+ is preferred for leads. I too have a IV, actually a III green stripe, IV-A, JP2C, and VII, my IIC+ has been on pre-order since mid-October, not sure when I get mine but hopefully soon. Great demo, great playing and "hand" sound too
I noticed a similar thing between my mark iii red stripe and mark iv A. The iii had this upper mid aggressiveness that never really went away and made it really hard to dial in good recorded rhythm sounds. The iv is much smoother and more recordable IMO. Ive heard that the iii red stripe is the msot similar to the iic.
I have a Mark IIA, you can get a good sound on both channels like, one way. you kinda get amazing tone on either channel, or decent tone on both. I dont think that they are voiced the same as old Mark IIs and of course an A is different than a C+ but its really not that different. Most would not be able to tell the difference in a double blind.
We could mod the 2c+ circuit to have a logarithmic mid slider, or try switching between log and linear We could also have an intensity control as such: So standard has 5 bands12 decibel cut or boost iirc, A knob or rotary control which is +/-12db in it's 12 o'clock position, however is much deeper cranked and almost or bypassed at a minimum
Hey man, that is a really good point. I also realized it gets deeper, almost mid-bumpy, or say, the GEQ bypassed when cranked. My theory is that the GEQ's headroom isn't just enough to handle the signal-level when the amp is cranked, hence compressing too much. Any large signal in any amps with high volume will eventually get compressed, as Marshall amps getting cranked and start the power amp saturation, but in this particular occasion, the GEQ circuit is in between the preamp and the power amp section, and it starts being compressed much earlier. Based on my experiences, it already starts "neutralizing" the GEQ circuit when above lead master ~5 / master ~5, and quite significantly so. That said, the GEQ doesn't really work when cranked.
@@JamesK1963 I think the numbers on the sliders have very little to do with the actual frequency band affected. Typically guitar midrange is around 1000-1500, I imagine the “750” really is affecting a similar frequency band.
Cool demo. Ya i think they voiced the 2C+ to be more mid range focused because that's where it lives in the mix and producers cut out the whoofy low end to make space for kick and bass. That's my guess anyway. But ya jamming by yourself, the bassier the better. And I think they should've just made the 2c+ two separate channels, it's actually kind of illogical to put everything on the same tone stack.
@@mattvdh i agree, but that’s with our 40 year retrospective view. Back in the 70s you only had single channel amps, the ability to switch gain in and out was new with the mark II, even though it’s not nearly as useful as modern day channel switching amps with independent tone stacks
everyone wants to play metallica-so u get the one trick pony. i see why jp came up with the jp-2c to get the versatile machine like your mark iv, great insightful comparison between these two great monsters of rock
Totally…I didn’t get into it here but there’s a lot of variation in the tone stack and with the GEQ. The mid and low grain sounds are gorgeous as well.
Awesome tones! They both sound great! What pickups are you using? Would you mind sharing your settings for the high gain sounds from the C+ and IV? Thanks!
@@petruccirocks02 I’m playing an air norton in the neck and a dimarzio super distortion in the bridge of a jackson Kelly. The pickup cavity is not shielded which explains some of the unwanted noise. Settings are the same on both. Cranked input and lead gain, bass around 1.5, mid around 4.5, treble 10, bright on, GEQ as described
@@jonfai what do you use to feed both amp input? Does the splitter is active with an isolaton transformer + ground lift or its a cheap ABY passive pedal ?
How is your preamp set? Have you tried turning the mid and bass all the way to 0, the treble to 10, the presence between 0 and 3. And the. Turning the low-mids back up on the graphic?
@@Qwitsoender treble 10, bass 1.5 Mids around 5 (I prefer that for a chunkier feel on the boogies). And you see what I did with the GEQ. And presence was also at 3.
@@nathancloud6344 I like them both! They do a different thing. I grew up on Marshall’s….its like asking if you like a plexi or a 2203 more. They’re both awesome and important amps and ideally you could have both!
@@Chugg.Norris thank you for your observation but this is not correct. I only have two sliders slightly below the midpoint. Zero is quite far from that.
Right on dude, great video, great playing! 🤘🏻
@@tommymann6182 thanks!
I agree with the low end of the 2c+. I'm dialing in a studio tone with a JP2c now and I can't get it to sound chunky (as I would want) without an EQ in the loop. Also have to retract some low mids.
@@Nsypski volume helps. It gets chunkier as the transformer starts cooking
You’re correct. They both sound good.
@@edguyrocks5865 awesome amps, both! Difference in rawness vs smoothness primarily
Great video. Really impressive lead stuff.
Thank you very much! Rock on!
Mark IVA is the best Mark amp IMO
@@123lowp there is a solid argument to make that way
I have a Mark IVa like you and have never had the opportunity to A/B it with a IIC+, but I analyzed the schematics and they aren't all that different. To get the IVa in the ballpark you need to set the rear switches to triode, simulclass, and harmonics. The presence control should also be pulled (pushed has a lot less NFB similar to a Recto). On a IVa, the lead "fat" switch is equivalent to the treble "shift" on a IIC+. On the IIC+, the bass "shift" and vol 1 "bright" switches aren't in the in the IVa circuit at all. Lead "bright" switches are the same on both amps. Also, the "deep" switch on a IIC+ is basically always active in the IVa circuit and can't be defeated, but running the lead master low and global master high might make it less bass heavy. I also think the IIC+ GEQ might have less range than the IVa.
Super interesting ill try those out! There’s still that upper mid bark the iic has which is totally absent in the iv
Why triode mode? The IIc+ isn’t running in triode mode, is it?
@@QwitsoenderYes, the C+ is wired in triode, not pentode.
@@Qwitsoender according to the MK V manual, it was permanently in triode. Probably one of the reasons the JP2C is not exactly the same.
@@Qwitsoender IIC+ simuls runs the outer sockets in triode. The mark IV is the same with the triode switch on except with larger screen resistors.
Love the lead sounds on the mark iic+
Agree!
Nice picking bro
@@jacobking6966 thanks brother
Great tones
@@gerrydaly5409 thanks!
Ola said the same. Live settings would be tough if you do channel switching for clean to lead.
use a different amp for cleans
You can hear that upper mid-range "click" of the pick attack on the IV, it definitely a great sound, but I totally get why the IIC+ is preferred for leads. I too have a IV, actually a III green stripe, IV-A, JP2C, and VII, my IIC+ has been on pre-order since mid-October, not sure when I get mine but hopefully soon. Great demo, great playing and "hand" sound too
Thank you! I’m jealous of your collection…. GAS is strong!
Actual playing starts at 2:30 . Just talking till then.
I noticed a similar thing between my mark iii red stripe and mark iv A. The iii had this upper mid aggressiveness that never really went away and made it really hard to dial in good recorded rhythm sounds. The iv is much smoother and more recordable IMO. Ive heard that the iii red stripe is the msot similar to the iic.
@@iplaylespauls23 I’ve heard that as well. Apparently they’re nearly the same.
I have a Mark IIA, you can get a good sound on both channels like, one way. you kinda get amazing tone on either channel, or decent tone on both. I dont think that they are voiced the same as old Mark IIs and of course an A is different than a C+ but its really not that different. Most would not be able to tell the difference in a double blind.
I’ll keep tweaking but I still feel like in a performance context it’s essentially a single channel…. An awesome single channel but nonetheless…
We could mod the 2c+ circuit to have a logarithmic mid slider, or try switching between log and linear
We could also have an intensity control as such:
So standard has 5 bands12 decibel cut or boost iirc,
A knob or rotary control which is +/-12db in it's 12 o'clock position, however is much deeper cranked and almost or bypassed at a minimum
Hey man, that is a really good point. I also realized it gets deeper, almost mid-bumpy, or say, the GEQ bypassed when cranked. My theory is that the GEQ's headroom isn't just enough to handle the signal-level when the amp is cranked, hence compressing too much. Any large signal in any amps with high volume will eventually get compressed, as Marshall amps getting cranked and start the power amp saturation, but in this particular occasion, the GEQ circuit is in between the preamp and the power amp section, and it starts being compressed much earlier. Based on my experiences, it already starts "neutralizing" the GEQ circuit when above lead master ~5 / master ~5, and quite significantly so. That said, the GEQ doesn't really work when cranked.
On a scale of 80, 240, 740, 2200, and 6600, I don't get how 740 is considered midrange. The halfway point is somewhere around 3300.
@@JamesK1963 I think the numbers on the sliders have very little to do with the actual frequency band affected. Typically guitar midrange is around 1000-1500, I imagine the “750” really is affecting a similar frequency band.
Your treble sounds blown on the 2c+
Cool demo. Ya i think they voiced the 2C+ to be more mid range focused because that's where it lives in the mix and producers cut out the whoofy low end to make space for kick and bass. That's my guess anyway. But ya jamming by yourself, the bassier the better. And I think they should've just made the 2c+ two separate channels, it's actually kind of illogical to put everything on the same tone stack.
@@mattvdh i agree, but that’s with our 40 year retrospective view. Back in the 70s you only had single channel amps, the ability to switch gain in and out was new with the mark II, even though it’s not nearly as useful as modern day channel switching amps with independent tone stacks
everyone wants to play metallica-so u get the one trick pony. i see why jp came up with the jp-2c to get the versatile machine like your mark iv, great insightful comparison between these two great monsters of rock
Totally…I didn’t get into it here but there’s a lot of variation in the tone stack and with the GEQ. The mid and low grain sounds are gorgeous as well.
Awesome tones! They both sound great! What pickups are you using?
Would you mind sharing your settings for the high gain sounds from the C+ and IV? Thanks!
@@petruccirocks02 I’m playing an air norton in the neck and a dimarzio super distortion in the bridge of a jackson Kelly. The pickup cavity is not shielded which explains some of the unwanted noise.
Settings are the same on both. Cranked input and lead gain, bass around 1.5, mid around 4.5, treble 10, bright on, GEQ as described
2:57 = Ground loop high pitch noise.
@@bougear yup you’re totally right. This guitar also has unshielded pickup cavity. I disconnected the pedals and the noise went away
Not what ground-loops usually sound like.
@@jonfai what do you use to feed both amp input? Does the splitter is active with an isolaton transformer + ground lift or its a cheap ABY passive pedal ?
@ I’m thinking it was a particular frequency being boosted by the MK IV that is not shielded in this guitar.
@ nah it’s the real deal. Tonebone by radial. It puts both amps in two separate isolated loops that can feed to the same cab.
Never trade my iva for a iic+...and yes i ve always run it in simulclass 6l6 + el34 triode harmonics..
@@fabiol.9161 it’s a killer versatile amp
I guess the easy solution would be to get another IIC+ :D
@@manuelaguilar8060 you definitely could do that…. For around 8 grand…
How is your preamp set? Have you tried turning the mid and bass all the way to 0, the treble to 10, the presence between 0 and 3. And the. Turning the low-mids back up on the graphic?
@@Qwitsoender treble 10, bass 1.5 Mids around 5 (I prefer that for a chunkier feel on the boogies). And you see what I did with the GEQ. And presence was also at 3.
what Marshall cab is it ? 1960 A with T75s or AV with V30s ?
@@DragonBoloA with T75s!
Difficult for me to hear the room realism. Do you prefer the 2c plus? This is my dream amp.
@@nathancloud6344 I like them both! They do a different thing. I grew up on Marshall’s….its like asking if you like a plexi or a 2203 more. They’re both awesome and important amps and ideally you could have both!
Lets compare two different amplifiers..
Which lets you choose which one is right for your needs…
I think he is necessarily showing the difference between them.
I mean..why compare two of the SAME amp? 😂 lol
You have 2 sliders touching zero. This is user error 100%
@@Chugg.Norris thank you for your observation but this is not correct. I only have two sliders slightly below the midpoint. Zero is quite far from that.
😂