Since this video is suddently blowing up even though its three years old: I ended up making and releasing a different dungeon crawler last year: th-cam.com/video/1LpXBRAR0ZE/w-d-xo.html The scifi RPG I talked about in this video is still "in development," tho I haven't had much time to work on it this year. That said, I've posted updates since then on the project you can check out in this playlist: th-cam.com/play/PL77DeyWxKgkq9vgy3IYah2ZfzHMkY6OE4.html
Imagine my reaction when your idea is completely in line with my own.. A Sci fi based DRPG but with a twist. For myself it would be a rogue like or rogue lite in some sense.. But I'm not spilling my ideas here :p
I wonder if the reason you like Japanese takes on the medieval fantasy style is that they're more willing to get kinda weird with it. The are exceptions on both sides, of course, but I find that Japanese titles will really embrace the "fantasy" part and go nuts, whereas in the West we usually accept "medieval ages with some dragons and maybe a couple wizards."
I think you nailed it. If I were to pick my favorite fantasy games made by western developers, the first that come to mind are Morrowind, Dark Sun, and Soul Reaver, which are all very weird takes on fantasy.
@TheCrawl I'm hoping to incorporate a bit of weirdness in my own DRPG, but my main inspirations are all quite weird already, and its only relation to the medieval stuff is the low tech level.
@TheCrawl It's all very much up in my head still. I've been checking out anyone on TH-cam that I could see talking about DRPGs over the past few days while I code the exploration side of things.
Ah cool! Well I have a couple more DRPG videos in the works at the moment, in case you’re still looking for related content! Should be out within the next couple weeks.
Thanks, friend. I appreciate that as always. I'll be promoting the next videos through other means to hopefully spread interest. But even if those efforts don't go far, I enjoy making the videos and documenting my development experiments so the joy is in the process. By the way, I've got a couple ideas I'm planning for later this year/early 2021 that will be a nice overlap between the topics of our channels!
What I noticed when searching for a new “Dungeon Crawler” (non table top) here on TH-cam is that most content makers do not know what a Dungeon Crawler is. Hope that calling it drpg helps. Good luck with your project!
"sometimes I want to grind through enemies, not dialogue boxes". This is why I stopped playing Baldurs Gate 3, and started Grimrock 2 for the eighth time.
One of my favorite games growing up was a game called Theresia. It melded elements of mystery, horror, and DRPGs. I've explored a lot of games over the years trying to find the elements I discovered in that game and now I want to create one of my own as well.
I actually ended up having an idea similar to this, being a sci-fi theme DRPG in a pixel style set on a kind of space station atop a giant space elevator where you played as a robot girl. Sadly I lack the skills the actually pull it of, both in terms of programming and art.
Remember that awesome gallery of heroes in paintings where you could go shopping for your starting party of four in Dungeon Master? I wish more games did this, if evoked such a sense of wonder and possibility.
I've always wished a game similar to dungeon crawler megami tensei games (atmospheric, weird, futuristic) for nowadays ! I'm definitely subscribing, you're not the only one
i've had a very similar feeling towards fantasy. Japanese fantasy feels timeless and truly a product of imagination and it something I really really dig. games like hydlide or golden axe (mainly the 3rd one) or dragon quest just fill a fantastical space often over looked in western fantasies. I want to make a ttrpg setting that feels like that quite badly.
I kind of like the exploration of dungeons like this, just uncovering the entire map by stepping on all the tiles is very calming for me, I don't even mind random encounters all that much since I also enjoy grinding in rpgs. In general though, I'm not a fan of open world games since my brain goes by the logic of: "if i have everything to do, then I have nothing to do" and so I get bored of them very quickly. Having a game pretty much set in a dungeon with a set path down but isn't just a 'move forward' hallway and instead has branching paths with prizes waiting at the end of them just keeps me interested longer. Honestly its also why I like earlier RPGs, they put in side quests and things to find in the overworld but there is only 1 way forward which you'll eventually get back to.
Wish you the best with your game. I'm personally not big into dungeon crawlers but there certainly have been some done I was hooked from beginning to end.
This is a phenomenal breakdown of the genre. Nicely done! I appreciate your desire to make your own dungeon crawler, and I think that your multiple keys/locks approach ala Metroid would be a neat addition to the genre. Best of luck!
Thanks! I aprreciate you checking out the video and commenting, I'm glad you enjoyed it. I'm hoping to have a devlog of the game's progress out in the coming weeks, in case you're interested.
Obrigado pelo vídeo. Gosto bastante de estudar gamedev e gamedesign e apesar de ser um fã avido de RPG (tanto os de livro quanto o do videogames) ainda não tinha deparado com o termo DRPG. Gostei muito muito dos pontos que levantou, isso me ajudou a perceber detalhes das mecânicas em comum que me faz gostar tanto do gênero. Outra coisa que gostei bastante foi conhecer mais pessoas que gostam de DRPG Sci-fi. A estética de ficção cientifica ou mesclada com fantasia (como o meu amado Phantasy Star) é muito legal. ----- Thanks for the video. I really enjoy studying gamedev and gamedesign and although I'm an avid RPG fan (both books and video games) I hadn't come across the term DRPG before. I really liked the points you raised, it helped me realize the details of the common mechanics that make me like the genre so much. Another thing I really enjoyed was meeting more people who like Sci-fi DRPGs. The aesthetic of science fiction or fantasy (like my beloved Phantasy Star) is very cool.
I recently finished a game development course, I wanna make something similar to Etrian Odyssey/Mary Skelter or Labyrinth of Galleria while trying not to be too much similar, i as a player dont like to feel like "i have been there" so i do intend to inovate in some way while not deviating too much from the genre, i plan on trying some ideas first and see if they work well together, and when i am satisfied with the result i should release a free demo to have a more broad feedback from the public, it will take time but i am set on learning whatever i need and make it come true.
@@TheCrawl Thanks for the response and interest, will share some news when i start to get the hang of it, the course i finished was Unity but i am going to change to Unreal Engine due to the recent Unity incident and so will have to learn a new engine and language, but, i already started researching about it and have more or less the concept of having the 3D map and 2D map in sync figured out, it is really just a matter of starting to put into pratice and play with it until it works as intended, i will also try to make it optimized from the get go so that i dont have to change it all midway or at the end of the project, that is my intention at least.
Since you mentioned you like Sci-Fi settings for DRPGs, I'm curious what you think of Doom RPG and Doom II RPG, they both were DRPGs that took place in space stations and such. It's more like occult Sci-Fi obviously because the demons but it's still an interesting setting for a DRPG.
Yes! I'm more familiar with the first Doom RPG than the second, but they're both very good. There's an upcoming game called Raskopnik that's inpired by the Doom and Wolfenstein RPGs. The demo is definitely worth trying if you enjoy that style of dungeon crawler: store.steampowered.com/app/1748650/RASKOPNIK_The_Trench_Warrior/
Elminage Original. I've experienced DRPGs before and after it, but that game, on either the PSP or PS Vita, I don't remember, was what made me fall in love with the sub-genre. 🥰
I exactly know what you mean. I remember drawing all the plans and spending a long time to finish Xenomorph on Amiga back in the days. After that I waited decades and never see a dungeon crawler futuristic until the 2 more than fantastic Vaporum titles. I think there was a couple like the Black Dawn series but I am not able to find them to play. A grid based Dungeon master with guns and no magic in a world like The Sons of the forest. I am in if you looking for a developer lol
Trying to make my own First Person Dungeon Crawler as well but it's not doing too well. Already switched engines for my game several times, Unity, then the classic DungeonCraft/FRUA, and now, GDevelop
Yeah! I love some of those Might and Magic and later Wizardry games that do this, and of course Phantasy Star and several earlier Final Fantasy titles that feature science-fantasy. Shadow Run as well.
Interesting, I love my space RPG, the same I love my occidental medieval fantasy games; japanese not so much, except when it's old school DRPG and soulslike.
Great video! Thanks for sharing this! I was wondering if by any chance are you still working on this game? I'm actually working on a similar project and I love seeing your updates. Thanks!
20 years ago I played some indie dungeon crawler with a very busy UI, it wasn't Undercroft tho it looked similar. I look for it every couple of years never found a trace
Hmmm... that could be difficult, since so many classic dungeon crawlers and blobbers has cluttered UIs. Have you ruled out the Might & Magic and Eye of the Behold games?
@@TheCrawl it was from around 1998-2003ish the website specifically mentioned it was trying to be like the Eye of the Beholder games. Was an indie project either one guy or a small team
Not sure why this 3 year old video from a channel I've never visited before popped up on my feed, but did anything come of the game you were making? Did you finish it? What's it called?
Tbf, it's mostly used in Japan and fans of Japanese games in this style, I just prefer using it to "blobber" or "first-person RPG" since it tends to be a more focused term.
I really like when fantasy is used for horror more so than the usual fare. So less Lord of the Rings and more Call of Cthulhu or Dracula. I imagine liking the horror genre in general has something to do with it but I think it also has to do with how horror tends to keep the otherworldly elements obscured and largely unknown, which helps keep such elements feeling mystical rather than becoming routine.
Deeply deeply feel the distaste for medieval fantasy. Apart from Fromsoft games and GoT I’ve always been weirdly averse to anything to do with medieval fantasy. Can’t wait to see your updates, I’ve been wanting to make a game with similar values but with the story and setting as the primary foundation
First thing I'll note is that most other DRPGs lack Etrian Odyssey's DIY map making. But if you're cool with auto-mapping, Labyrinth of Refrain immediately comes to mind. It's from the folks that make Disgaea, and while it's more story-heavy than EO, the gameplay is deep. Lots of party formations to experiment with, and exploring the dungeons is fun. The illustrations are great, too. It's on Steam, Switch, PS4, and Vita (I played on Switch). Steam has lots of older DRPGs, like Might and Magic, Wizardry, Eliminage. But I am particularly fond of The Legend of Grimrock 1 and 2 and StarCrawlers. I have heard good things about Vaporum (on Steam and Switch), but haven't played it yet. There are lots of other games (especially if you read japanese) but those should get you started! Let me know if you need more. I consodered making some videos listing my favorites for different platforms, and your comment has me thinking I should definitely do that.
NIS made Labyrinth of Refrain, and in general I think they put out a lot of good stuff. As for Compile Heart, I plan to try the next Mary Skelter release on Switch, but I'm less familiar with their output.
@@TheCrawl The Compile Heart game I saw is Moero Chronicles. Its too perverted(i like this kind of stuff but its too much) and dumb for my taste and seeing Mary Skelter made by those people made me question if I should consider Mary Skelter. About NIS, I saw them on Steam. The ones that is in my mind is Sword of Stranger City cuz it looks cool. I just hope that the gameplay and dungeons are on par with Etrian Odyssey and Dungeon Travellers.
Good question! I guess the primary thing I would say is: design the layout and content around your game's intended player experience. Good dungeon design in a game with survival mechanics that necessitate multiple runs to and from town (like hunger meters, limited spell charges or mana pools, restrictive inventory space, etc) will look different compared to a game where you're expected to spend long periods of time in the dungeon to acquire loot or unlock secrets. Similarly, a game with random turn-based battles will require different floor and puzzle design considerations than one with real-time combat. And a game where you want players to feel lost in a complex maze of similar looking hallways/rooms will look different from a game where players are expected to navigate using familiar landmarks or rooms rather than a map. So I suggest studying games with similar gameplay that you (or other players/reviewers) enjoy, and see what lessons could be applied to your own dungeons. And it doesn't have to just be dungeon crawlers. For example, in my game The Necromancer's Tower, I used the level layouts and map flow in Metroid II, Mega Man Legends, and Demon's Souls as examples, since I wanted each area to have locked doors, secret rooms, and treasure just out of view (or blocked by traps/enemy encounters) to entice players to explore. And since there was no town, I also needed merchants and spots to heal to give players a rest between combat, and shortcuts to make trips back to those safe zones (or back to boss encounters) quicker if their party died and were sent back to the resurrection spot. I know that's pretty open-ended and vague, but I hope it helps! And feel free to reach out here or on Twitter if you want to chat more about this, or want specific recommendations on games with specific dungeon styles! I'm happy to help :)
@@TheCrawl Thanks. I'd done a gameboy dungeon-crawler for Gameboy Gamejam last year, just a prototype but when designing the one level my goal at the time was just to give people a quick proof-of-concept experience. Part of what I'd like to draw inspiration from is games like Arcana on SNES where the dungeon-crawl is more like a war of attrition, the encounter rates are quite high yet relatively easy and it's more about getting what you need and want before the attrition of easy fights wears your party down and finally overwhelms you. I will definitely need to look into how their levels are drawn out to understand what makes them work for that intention though.
I Love crawlers, but some I rly dislike. Also, I personly prefer real time crawlers like Dungeon master(s)/eye of the beholder(s)/Lands of lore and Legend of Grimrock(s). (I specialy like the stamina system in Dungeon master, and max weight to carry depending on str. It makes it all more realistic.) I've also played some dungeons with way to much combat options with cooldowns (kinda like World of warcraft) and those just over did it for me. Great video anyhows mate.
So I actually prefer the realtime crawlers, too! The only reason I go with the turn-based combat in my games is because it's simply easier with the version of RPGmaker I use. But I hope to branch out to other, more flexible and powerful engines in the future and create a Grimrock-like crawler one day.
@@TheCrawl Thats great to hear. Ps, some crawlers I did like who aren't real time. Take a sega game "shining the the darness" Wizardry series/might and magic series. Anyhows. Good luck on your game:) Oh yeah. I did made a huge mod for Grimrock 1. (about 20 levels +secret endings)
I adore gridders. I'm playing BG3, but as soon as I'm done I found two new gridders to play. I really want a more complex Legend of Grimrock II. Not as much inventory management, but harder puzzles wouldn't go amiss. It could be a Valley of the Kings dungeon crawler and that would be fun. I wouldn't mind something slightly alien, either. JRPGs are colorful and bright. There is danger, but also *hope*. Western RPGs (WRGPs) are grim and lean toward low fantasy to immerse the player in the consequences of their actions. Games with dialogue trees often pose moral dilemmas and increasingly, there is no one right answer. I applaud this as much as I dread this. It's a lot like life. Perhaps that's why I don't mind queer representation in my video games. Each choice presents new options. It's up to me to do something with it. Gridders, though? Quests might refer to queer people and even romance and that's cool, but what my characters do in camp is left to my imagination - and that's okay! NGL, it does keep games like Mass Effect, Dragon Age: Origins (ptui on the other DA titles) and BG3 from being too dark. As soon as you are up close with your characters, it's hard to not want to have them be full people.
I have played a lot of "D" rpg's. Ultima Exodus for NES was my first one. The over wold map was not "D" but it had dungeons that were definitely D style. Then I played Wizardry PGMO and TNOD for NES. But have play many many more at time went by. But there was always the 1 question that forever nags me when I play them.... which is... WHO made these things? Where is the Lore behind these massive sprawling but well masoned hallways? Who is keeping these torches lit? Why do they ignore the dead guys with loot laying around and are the monsters just ducking out on them when they come by? The doors are all oiled and traps are functional. I means... there is a totally "Pimp" dungeon master out there running around with literally nothing better to do with his time than to make some fantastic dungeons that would have taken a procession of humans of the likes that built the pyramids to complete following him around for either free or because he is loaded and gets off on this stuff. Just a thought...
Hah, that's very true! Something I love is when games offer good explanations for why these ruins and mazes exist. Of course, a lot of games just say something like "a maze suddenly appeared on night" or something--and that's fine. But the best imo are when they make uncovering and understanding the mystery of the dungeon(s) a major part of the storyline. Some examples off the top of my head I really like are the SMT, Grimrock, King's Field, and Shadow Tower games, Arx Fatalis, and Lunacid.
This game is still technically "in development" tho I haven't had as much time to work on it this year. I did use the stuff I learned on this game so far make a dungeon crawler last year, however: th-cam.com/video/1LpXBRAR0ZE/w-d-xo.html
I've been trying to decide if I should type this because I truly do appreciate your response and it was my fault for not being clear. But I don't want to derail any future reader of this comment. Everything in the trailer I saw for RPGMDV can be done in construct 3 for free. Might have to use some freeware outside programs for the art and free assets. But I have my heart set on making a 1st person DRpg. Think I'm going with Unity. Anyways great channel you have here with great content 🙏
Please make the DRPG the one that will make me drool over...I'm so damn sick of lameass half baked attempts... Its hard to explain, but I want to have that wanderlust itch managed, feel like I found something worthwhile... Has a simple storyline without being some hero... Just a adventurer doing the crawl for basic living... May e even go to a guild and take up jobs, or heed requests to join a party in-game for a purpose in a evolving ever-changing dungeons, maybe add other stuff for basis of life stuff, like getting groceries for crawls...
Ultima underworld helped the transition from simpler rpg into action rpg by having enemies acting sort of slow. The same can be said about diablo 1 - which was turn based like most rogue likes during early alpha. The question here is how you want players to interact with the dungeon itself - is it a puzzle? (Eye of beholder)A platform challenge? (Deathtrap dungeon / old tomb raider) A world with a story? (Ultima underworld). There's a game you missed - Hades. I'd also look into pathfinder adventures as well. Another key aspect is it about a single hero (which allow more platforming and storytelling )or is it a party based strategy game (like phantasm star)?
I'm more a fan of Dungeon Crawlers with a big open world connecting everything like the Might and Magic games and Wizardry 8. Pure dungeon crawlers are missing something. edit: I've never heard the term DRPG, for me these games are Blobbers.
Thanks for the comment! So, the DRPG/blobber split is an interesting one, since they are very similar but not always identical. As I said in another reply: “The terms Dungeon RPG/DRPG are more commonly used in Japan, but many Western fans use the term, too, especially common among fans of games like Etrian Odyssey, Labyrinth of Refrain, Stranger in Sword City, etc. That said, DRPGs and "Blobbers" aren't always synonymous. Both are first-person, but DRPGs are pretty strictly set *only* in dungeons/mazes and are almost always grid-based. There aren’t any direct overworld exploration segments connecting the dungeons/towns. They also don't always have a party, and sometimes just one controllable character (like King's Field Addition I & II, Das Geisterschiff, or Gloomgrave). So something like Might & Magic 8, Wizardry 8, or Stone Prophet are blobber dungeon crawlers, but since they have free movement and a larger scope beyond what one would expect from a DRPG, I wouldn't call them a DRPG per se. Meanwhile, Etrian Odyssey could be called a blobber since it's party-based, and a DRPG since it conforms to the DRPG style, but ultimately I’d still call it a DRPG since blobber implies more than what Etrian offers. So yeah, similar, but not *quite* the same. And the reason people say "DRPG" is to differentiate them from other forms of RPGs, since they're such a specific style--one that some people may not be as interested in. Like a Final Fantasy VII fan may not enjoy playing Etrian Odyssey, for example. Similarly, a Might & Magic fan might find the Elminage series too limited. These are ofc my own understandings of the terms and the contexts I’ve experienced them in. Someone else might use them differently. Ultimately, they're all dungeon crawlers, which is the most important part lol.”
So, yes--but there's a difference. Not all Blobbers are Drpgs, but (most) DRPGs are blobbers lol. DRPG is usually used for games that are hyper-specific about being set in dungeons (or dungeon-like environments), and almost all of them based on the template set by the first Wizardry games--so grid-based movement, usually turn-based combat against random encounters, etc.
ive been playing dungeon crawlers for over 30 years and NOBODY ever called them DRPG. This is literally the first time ive ever heard it called that. They have ALWAYS been Dungeon Crawlers.
I wonder could elements of Fallout new vegas, dark souls, wasteland 3 and Legend of grimrock 1 and 2 be combined into a D-RPG. I hope more indie dev make more stuff like legend of grimrock rather than yet another shitty roguelike.
Depending on which specific elements you mean, I definitely think something like that could exist. Your description actually brings to mind the DRPG Aeon of Sands: store.steampowered.com/app/907820/Aeon_of_Sands__The_Trail/
Since this video is suddently blowing up even though its three years old: I ended up making and releasing a different dungeon crawler last year: th-cam.com/video/1LpXBRAR0ZE/w-d-xo.html
The scifi RPG I talked about in this video is still "in development," tho I haven't had much time to work on it this year. That said, I've posted updates since then on the project you can check out in this playlist: th-cam.com/play/PL77DeyWxKgkq9vgy3IYah2ZfzHMkY6OE4.html
Imagine my reaction when your idea is completely in line with my own..
A Sci fi based DRPG but with a twist.
For myself it would be a rogue like or rogue lite in some sense.. But I'm not spilling my ideas here :p
I would love to hear more about it once you're able to share details!
I wonder if the reason you like Japanese takes on the medieval fantasy style is that they're more willing to get kinda weird with it. The are exceptions on both sides, of course, but I find that Japanese titles will really embrace the "fantasy" part and go nuts, whereas in the West we usually accept "medieval ages with some dragons and maybe a couple wizards."
I think you nailed it. If I were to pick my favorite fantasy games made by western developers, the first that come to mind are Morrowind, Dark Sun, and Soul Reaver, which are all very weird takes on fantasy.
@TheCrawl I'm hoping to incorporate a bit of weirdness in my own DRPG, but my main inspirations are all quite weird already, and its only relation to the medieval stuff is the low tech level.
@@yamsdev I’d love to check it out!
@TheCrawl It's all very much up in my head still. I've been checking out anyone on TH-cam that I could see talking about DRPGs over the past few days while I code the exploration side of things.
Ah cool! Well I have a couple more DRPG videos in the works at the moment, in case you’re still looking for related content! Should be out within the next couple weeks.
Reason that I love Etrian Odyssey is the arcade-like stage progression of the game.
Thank you for mentioning Strange Journey. I felt like I was gonna go insane without at least one SMT mention.
I hope many more people find this, because this is going to be a super interesting series.
Thanks, friend. I appreciate that as always. I'll be promoting the next videos through other means to hopefully spread interest. But even if those efforts don't go far, I enjoy making the videos and documenting my development experiments so the joy is in the process.
By the way, I've got a couple ideas I'm planning for later this year/early 2021 that will be a nice overlap between the topics of our channels!
What I noticed when searching for a new “Dungeon Crawler” (non table top) here on TH-cam is that most content makers do not know what a Dungeon Crawler is. Hope that calling it drpg helps. Good luck with your project!
I never cared for DRPGs until I discovered The Dark Spire (DS). Now it is one of my favorite genres and I cannot get enough.
"sometimes I want to grind through enemies, not dialogue boxes". This is why I stopped playing Baldurs Gate 3, and started Grimrock 2 for the eighth time.
See you get it.
One of my favorite games growing up was a game called Theresia. It melded elements of mystery, horror, and DRPGs. I've explored a lot of games over the years trying to find the elements I discovered in that game and now I want to create one of my own as well.
I actually ended up having an idea similar to this, being a sci-fi theme DRPG in a pixel style set on a kind of space station atop a giant space elevator where you played as a robot girl. Sadly I lack the skills the actually pull it of, both in terms of programming and art.
Remember that awesome gallery of heroes in paintings where you could go shopping for your starting party of four in Dungeon Master? I wish more games did this, if evoked such a sense of wonder and possibility.
I've always wished a game similar to dungeon crawler megami tensei games (atmospheric, weird, futuristic) for nowadays ! I'm definitely subscribing, you're not the only one
i've had a very similar feeling towards fantasy. Japanese fantasy feels timeless and truly a product of imagination and it something I really really dig. games like hydlide or golden axe (mainly the 3rd one) or dragon quest just fill a fantastical space often over looked in western fantasies. I want to make a ttrpg setting that feels like that quite badly.
Because it's one of the first all time great type of gameplay styles
Agreed
I kind of like the exploration of dungeons like this, just uncovering the entire map by stepping on all the tiles is very calming for me, I don't even mind random encounters all that much since I also enjoy grinding in rpgs. In general though, I'm not a fan of open world games since my brain goes by the logic of: "if i have everything to do, then I have nothing to do" and so I get bored of them very quickly. Having a game pretty much set in a dungeon with a set path down but isn't just a 'move forward' hallway and instead has branching paths with prizes waiting at the end of them just keeps me interested longer. Honestly its also why I like earlier RPGs, they put in side quests and things to find in the overworld but there is only 1 way forward which you'll eventually get back to.
Wish you the best with your game. I'm personally not big into dungeon crawlers but there certainly have been some done I was hooked from beginning to end.
This is a phenomenal breakdown of the genre. Nicely done! I appreciate your desire to make your own dungeon crawler, and I think that your multiple keys/locks approach ala Metroid would be a neat addition to the genre. Best of luck!
Thanks! I aprreciate you checking out the video and commenting, I'm glad you enjoyed it. I'm hoping to have a devlog of the game's progress out in the coming weeks, in case you're interested.
@@TheCrawl I'll look for that. I also joined your discord channel. Feel free to chat any time as one dungeon crawler developer to another. Best!
Obrigado pelo vídeo. Gosto bastante de estudar gamedev e gamedesign e apesar de ser um fã avido de RPG (tanto os de livro quanto o do videogames) ainda não tinha deparado com o termo DRPG. Gostei muito muito dos pontos que levantou, isso me ajudou a perceber detalhes das mecânicas em comum que me faz gostar tanto do gênero. Outra coisa que gostei bastante foi conhecer mais pessoas que gostam de DRPG Sci-fi. A estética de ficção cientifica ou mesclada com fantasia (como o meu amado Phantasy Star) é muito legal.
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Thanks for the video. I really enjoy studying gamedev and gamedesign and although I'm an avid RPG fan (both books and video games) I hadn't come across the term DRPG before. I really liked the points you raised, it helped me realize the details of the common mechanics that make me like the genre so much. Another thing I really enjoyed was meeting more people who like Sci-fi DRPGs. The aesthetic of science fiction or fantasy (like my beloved Phantasy Star) is very cool.
I recently finished a game development course, I wanna make something similar to Etrian Odyssey/Mary Skelter or Labyrinth of Galleria while trying not to be too much similar, i as a player dont like to feel like "i have been there" so i do intend to inovate in some way while not deviating too much from the genre, i plan on trying some ideas first and see if they work well together, and when i am satisfied with the result i should release a free demo to have a more broad feedback from the public, it will take time but i am set on learning whatever i need and make it come true.
I would love to see your progress if you start working on it!
@@TheCrawl Thanks for the response and interest, will share some news when i start to get the hang of it, the course i finished was Unity but i am going to change to Unreal Engine due to the recent Unity incident and so will have to learn a new engine and language, but, i already started researching about it and have more or less the concept of having the 3D map and 2D map in sync figured out, it is really just a matter of starting to put into pratice and play with it until it works as intended, i will also try to make it optimized from the get go so that i dont have to change it all midway or at the end of the project, that is my intention at least.
A sci-fi DRPG...not many of those for sure. And a Metroid-like. Damn. I’d be into that!
Dungeons of Daggorath was one of my favorite games back in the day.
There's huge potential for horror aesthetic too
Since you mentioned you like Sci-Fi settings for DRPGs, I'm curious what you think of Doom RPG and Doom II RPG, they both were DRPGs that took place in space stations and such. It's more like occult Sci-Fi obviously because the demons but it's still an interesting setting for a DRPG.
Yes! I'm more familiar with the first Doom RPG than the second, but they're both very good. There's an upcoming game called Raskopnik that's inpired by the Doom and Wolfenstein RPGs. The demo is definitely worth trying if you enjoy that style of dungeon crawler: store.steampowered.com/app/1748650/RASKOPNIK_The_Trench_Warrior/
I hope this genre lives on forever
Elminage Original. I've experienced DRPGs before and after it, but that game, on either the PSP or PS Vita, I don't remember, was what made me fall in love with the sub-genre. 🥰
I exactly know what you mean. I remember drawing all the plans and spending a long time to finish Xenomorph on Amiga back in the days. After that I waited decades and never see a dungeon crawler futuristic until the 2 more than fantastic Vaporum titles. I think there was a couple like the Black Dawn series but I am not able to find them to play. A grid based Dungeon master with guns and no magic in a world like The Sons of the forest. I am in if you looking for a developer lol
Trying to make my own First Person Dungeon Crawler as well but it's not doing too well. Already switched engines for my game several times, Unity, then the classic DungeonCraft/FRUA, and now, GDevelop
Finding an engine is such a major part of the process, but I’m sure you’ll hit your stride if you keep at it!
If Legend of Grimrock 3 isn't gonna happen, then the world itself will breed something to fill this niche
There are quite a few games with that gameplay style out there!
In the early 90s, combining medical fantasy and sci fi was common. Did you like this style of game?
Yeah! I love some of those Might and Magic and later Wizardry games that do this, and of course Phantasy Star and several earlier Final Fantasy titles that feature science-fantasy. Shadow Run as well.
Interesting, I love my space RPG, the same I love my occidental medieval fantasy games; japanese not so much, except when it's old school DRPG and soulslike.
Great video! Thanks for sharing this! I was wondering if by any chance are you still working on this game? I'm actually working on a similar project and I love seeing your updates. Thanks!
20 years ago I played some indie dungeon crawler with a very busy UI, it wasn't Undercroft tho it looked similar. I look for it every couple of years never found a trace
Hmmm... that could be difficult, since so many classic dungeon crawlers and blobbers has cluttered UIs. Have you ruled out the Might & Magic and Eye of the Behold games?
@@TheCrawl it was from around 1998-2003ish the website specifically mentioned it was trying to be like the Eye of the Beholder games. Was an indie project either one guy or a small team
Have you checked the lists on Dungeoncrawlers.org? www.dungeoncrawlers.org/games/year/
@@TheCrawl pretty sure I found it. Demise: Rise of Ku'tan
Shining the Holy Ark is one of my favorite RPGs!
I have a video on it in case you haven’t seen it: th-cam.com/video/jn1LWI7gSRY/w-d-xo.htmlfeature=shared
Shiren the best roguelike series in existence on god
It’s true
Thanks for making the content!
Not sure why this 3 year old video from a channel I've never visited before popped up on my feed, but did anything come of the game you were making? Did you finish it? What's it called?
I pivoted to a different DRPG project using the stuff I learned from this one. It came out last year:
th-cam.com/video/1LpXBRAR0ZE/w-d-xo.html
Bard's Tale 1 and Bards Tale Construction Set..
Have you tried Star Crawlers? I think you would LOVE it.
I have! I mention it in a couple other videos, it's awesome. I haven't played the sequel yet, but it's on my list.
My favorite DRPG is Stranger of Sword City
It’s a good one! I really enjoy the Lineage battles
I would love to hear more about the DRPG you are making.
Subbing!
Legends of Grimlock games are so good. I didn't know they were called drpg's.
Tbf, it's mostly used in Japan and fans of Japanese games in this style, I just prefer using it to "blobber" or "first-person RPG" since it tends to be a more focused term.
I really like when fantasy is used for horror more so than the usual fare. So less Lord of the Rings and more Call of Cthulhu or Dracula.
I imagine liking the horror genre in general has something to do with it but I think it also has to do with how horror tends to keep the otherworldly elements obscured and largely unknown, which helps keep such elements feeling mystical rather than becoming routine.
you earned a sub
You could make it be set on an abandoned O'Neill cylinder station.
Damn, that’s a brilliant idea. I already have a setting worked out but I love this concept
Is this like the dungeon parts of Phantasy Star 1?
exactly!
Deeply deeply feel the distaste for medieval fantasy. Apart from Fromsoft games and GoT I’ve always been weirdly averse to anything to do with medieval fantasy. Can’t wait to see your updates, I’ve been wanting to make a game with similar values but with the story and setting as the primary foundation
Eye of the Beholder and its sequels.
For someone who loves Etrian Odyssey, what Drpg do you recommend to me on Steam or Switch?
First thing I'll note is that most other DRPGs lack Etrian Odyssey's DIY map making. But if you're cool with auto-mapping, Labyrinth of Refrain immediately comes to mind. It's from the folks that make Disgaea, and while it's more story-heavy than EO, the gameplay is deep. Lots of party formations to experiment with, and exploring the dungeons is fun. The illustrations are great, too. It's on Steam, Switch, PS4, and Vita (I played on Switch).
Steam has lots of older DRPGs, like Might and Magic, Wizardry, Eliminage. But I am particularly fond of The Legend of Grimrock 1 and 2 and StarCrawlers. I have heard good things about Vaporum (on Steam and Switch), but haven't played it yet.
There are lots of other games (especially if you read japanese) but those should get you started! Let me know if you need more. I consodered making some videos listing my favorites for different platforms, and your comment has me thinking I should definitely do that.
@@TheCrawl Should I bother with the ones made by NIS and Compile Hearts?
NIS made Labyrinth of Refrain, and in general I think they put out a lot of good stuff. As for Compile Heart, I plan to try the next Mary Skelter release on Switch, but I'm less familiar with their output.
@@TheCrawl The Compile Heart game I saw is Moero Chronicles. Its too perverted(i like this kind of stuff but its too much) and dumb for my taste and seeing Mary Skelter made by those people made me question if I should consider Mary Skelter.
About NIS, I saw them on Steam. The ones that is in my mind is Sword of Stranger City cuz it looks cool. I just hope that the gameplay and dungeons are on par with Etrian Odyssey and Dungeon Travellers.
@@TheCrawl Reason I also ask this question is because most FREAKING Atlus Drpg are more expensive than my 3ds on physical.
Do you know of any good insights into what makes good level design for DRPGs? I've been wondering myself when doing some in gamejams.
Good question! I guess the primary thing I would say is: design the layout and content around your game's intended player experience.
Good dungeon design in a game with survival mechanics that necessitate multiple runs to and from town (like hunger meters, limited spell charges or mana pools, restrictive inventory space, etc) will look different compared to a game where you're expected to spend long periods of time in the dungeon to acquire loot or unlock secrets.
Similarly, a game with random turn-based battles will require different floor and puzzle design considerations than one with real-time combat. And a game where you want players to feel lost in a complex maze of similar looking hallways/rooms will look different from a game where players are expected to navigate using familiar landmarks or rooms rather than a map.
So I suggest studying games with similar gameplay that you (or other players/reviewers) enjoy, and see what lessons could be applied to your own dungeons. And it doesn't have to just be dungeon crawlers. For example, in my game The Necromancer's Tower, I used the level layouts and map flow in Metroid II, Mega Man Legends, and Demon's Souls as examples, since I wanted each area to have locked doors, secret rooms, and treasure just out of view (or blocked by traps/enemy encounters) to entice players to explore. And since there was no town, I also needed merchants and spots to heal to give players a rest between combat, and shortcuts to make trips back to those safe zones (or back to boss encounters) quicker if their party died and were sent back to the resurrection spot.
I know that's pretty open-ended and vague, but I hope it helps! And feel free to reach out here or on Twitter if you want to chat more about this, or want specific recommendations on games with specific dungeon styles! I'm happy to help :)
@@TheCrawl Thanks. I'd done a gameboy dungeon-crawler for Gameboy Gamejam last year, just a prototype but when designing the one level my goal at the time was just to give people a quick proof-of-concept experience. Part of what I'd like to draw inspiration from is games like Arcana on SNES where the dungeon-crawl is more like a war of attrition, the encounter rates are quite high yet relatively easy and it's more about getting what you need and want before the attrition of easy fights wears your party down and finally overwhelms you. I will definitely need to look into how their levels are drawn out to understand what makes them work for that intention though.
Played them all.
My favorite dungeon crawler is Grandia Xtreme.
I’m really interested in playing that some day! I played the original when it came to the Switch, and learned about Xtreme soon after, it looks rad.
Could you please tell me which version of Phantasy Star1 is in this video? I’ve never seen it before
It's the Sega Ages: Phantasy Star version exclusive to the Nintendo Switch eShop (no physical version).
@@TheCrawl thanks
I Love crawlers, but some I rly dislike.
Also, I personly prefer real time crawlers like Dungeon master(s)/eye of the beholder(s)/Lands of lore and Legend of Grimrock(s). (I specialy like the stamina system in Dungeon master, and max weight to carry depending on str. It makes it all more realistic.)
I've also played some dungeons with way to much combat options with cooldowns (kinda like World of warcraft) and those just over did it for me.
Great video anyhows mate.
So I actually prefer the realtime crawlers, too! The only reason I go with the turn-based combat in my games is because it's simply easier with the version of RPGmaker I use. But I hope to branch out to other, more flexible and powerful engines in the future and create a Grimrock-like crawler one day.
@@TheCrawl Thats great to hear.
Ps, some crawlers I did like who aren't real time. Take a sega game "shining the the darness" Wizardry series/might and magic series.
Anyhows. Good luck on your game:)
Oh yeah. I did made a huge mod for Grimrock 1. (about 20 levels +secret endings)
What mapper were you using for Phantasy Star 1?
It’s the included auto map feature in the Sega Ages: Phantasy Star version on the Switch eShop.
Interesting that the Android version disappeared from the store. Thanks for responding.
I adore gridders. I'm playing BG3, but as soon as I'm done I found two new gridders to play. I really want a more complex Legend of Grimrock II. Not as much inventory management, but harder puzzles wouldn't go amiss. It could be a Valley of the Kings dungeon crawler and that would be fun. I wouldn't mind something slightly alien, either.
JRPGs are colorful and bright. There is danger, but also *hope*. Western RPGs (WRGPs) are grim and lean toward low fantasy to immerse the player in the consequences of their actions. Games with dialogue trees often pose moral dilemmas and increasingly, there is no one right answer. I applaud this as much as I dread this. It's a lot like life. Perhaps that's why I don't mind queer representation in my video games. Each choice presents new options. It's up to me to do something with it. Gridders, though? Quests might refer to queer people and even romance and that's cool, but what my characters do in camp is left to my imagination - and that's okay! NGL, it does keep games like Mass Effect, Dragon Age: Origins (ptui on the other DA titles) and BG3 from being too dark. As soon as you are up close with your characters, it's hard to not want to have them be full people.
Have you tried _Galaxy of Pen & Paper_? Just curious.
I haven't, but looking it up and it seems pretty cool. Might have to give it a shot.
Hi. What is this game called? 6:41
That’s the Sega Ages re-release of the original Phantasy Star. It’s available on the Switch eShop.
I have played a lot of "D" rpg's. Ultima Exodus for NES was my first one. The over wold map was not "D" but it had dungeons that were definitely D style. Then I played Wizardry PGMO and TNOD for NES. But have play many many more at time went by.
But there was always the 1 question that forever nags me when I play them.... which is... WHO made these things? Where is the Lore behind these massive sprawling but well masoned hallways? Who is keeping these torches lit? Why do they ignore the dead guys with loot laying around and are the monsters just ducking out on them when they come by? The doors are all oiled and traps are functional.
I means... there is a totally "Pimp" dungeon master out there running around with literally nothing better to do with his time than to make some fantastic dungeons that would have taken a procession of humans of the likes that built the pyramids to complete following him around for either free or because he is loaded and gets off on this stuff.
Just a thought...
Hah, that's very true! Something I love is when games offer good explanations for why these ruins and mazes exist. Of course, a lot of games just say something like "a maze suddenly appeared on night" or something--and that's fine. But the best imo are when they make uncovering and understanding the mystery of the dungeon(s) a major part of the storyline. Some examples off the top of my head I really like are the SMT, Grimrock, King's Field, and Shadow Tower games, Arx Fatalis, and Lunacid.
So, how is your game coming along?
This game is still technically "in development" tho I haven't had as much time to work on it this year. I did use the stuff I learned on this game so far make a dungeon crawler last year, however: th-cam.com/video/1LpXBRAR0ZE/w-d-xo.html
One of my all time favorite games is Unchained Blades, for basically a lot of the reasons ye listed ( •̀ ω •́ )✧
I haven’t heard of that one before! I’ll check it out. Thanks for watching, btw 🙏🏻
Please tell me the best and easiest program to make a drpg with. I'm trying to decide between unity and construct 3
I don't know about "best," but the easiest will likely be RPG maker with the MV 3D plugin.
@@TheCrawl Haven't considered that. I will look into it. Thank you 🙏
I've been trying to decide if I should type this because I truly do appreciate your response and it was my fault for not being clear. But I don't want to derail any future reader of this comment. Everything in the trailer I saw for RPGMDV can be done in construct 3 for free. Might have to use some freeware outside programs for the art and free assets. But I have my heart set on making a 1st person DRpg. Think I'm going with Unity. Anyways great channel you have here with great content 🙏
Please make the DRPG the one that will make me drool over...I'm so damn sick of lameass half baked attempts... Its hard to explain, but I want to have that wanderlust itch managed, feel like I found something worthwhile... Has a simple storyline without being some hero... Just a adventurer doing the crawl for basic living... May e even go to a guild and take up jobs, or heed requests to join a party in-game for a purpose in a evolving ever-changing dungeons, maybe add other stuff for basis of life stuff, like getting groceries for crawls...
Drpgs in a board game!
If you're interested, there's a game called 2D6 dungeon that's perfect for solo tabletop dungeon crawls.
Ultima underworld helped the transition from simpler rpg into action rpg by having enemies acting sort of slow. The same can be said about diablo 1 - which was turn based like most rogue likes during early alpha.
The question here is how you want players to interact with the dungeon itself - is it a puzzle? (Eye of beholder)A platform challenge? (Deathtrap dungeon / old tomb raider) A world with a story? (Ultima underworld).
There's a game you missed - Hades. I'd also look into pathfinder adventures as well.
Another key aspect is it about a single hero (which allow more platforming and storytelling )or is it a party based strategy game (like phantasm star)?
I would definitely check out some of my other videos, I go into some of this stuff in my other devlogs and retrospectives :)
Ultima underworld was more like a inmersive sim, rather than a traditional dungeon crawler.
what game is that at 7:16?
King's Field Additional
@@TheCrawl thanks!
Have u made the game yet?
I ended up pivoting to a different project that's linked in the pinned comment :)
Make wizardry.
Actually, I kinda did lol th-cam.com/video/1LpXBRAR0ZE/w-d-xo.htmlfeature=shared
I'm more a fan of Dungeon Crawlers with a big open world connecting everything like the Might and Magic games and Wizardry 8.
Pure dungeon crawlers are missing something.
edit: I've never heard the term DRPG, for me these games are Blobbers.
Thanks for the comment! So, the DRPG/blobber split is an interesting one, since they are very similar but not always identical. As I said in another reply:
“The terms Dungeon RPG/DRPG are more commonly used in Japan, but many Western fans use the term, too, especially common among fans of games like Etrian Odyssey, Labyrinth of Refrain, Stranger in Sword City, etc. That said, DRPGs and "Blobbers" aren't always synonymous. Both are first-person, but DRPGs are pretty strictly set *only* in dungeons/mazes and are almost always grid-based. There aren’t any direct overworld exploration segments connecting the dungeons/towns. They also don't always have a party, and sometimes just one controllable character (like King's Field Addition I & II, Das Geisterschiff, or Gloomgrave).
So something like Might & Magic 8, Wizardry 8, or Stone Prophet are blobber dungeon crawlers, but since they have free movement and a larger scope beyond what one would expect from a DRPG, I wouldn't call them a DRPG per se. Meanwhile, Etrian Odyssey could be called a blobber since it's party-based, and a DRPG since it conforms to the DRPG style, but ultimately I’d still call it a DRPG since blobber implies more than what Etrian offers. So yeah, similar, but not *quite* the same.
And the reason people say "DRPG" is to differentiate them from other forms of RPGs, since they're such a specific style--one that some people may not be as interested in. Like a Final Fantasy VII fan may not enjoy playing Etrian Odyssey, for example. Similarly, a Might & Magic fan might find the Elminage series too limited.
These are ofc my own understandings of the terms and the contexts I’ve experienced them in. Someone else might use them differently. Ultimately, they're all dungeon crawlers, which is the most important part lol.”
what game is this? 1:06
Ultima (there are title cards in the lower left, btw!)
@@TheCrawl thanks!
You need to design a dungeon, that’s a skill people no longer have.
“Good level design” doesn’t explain how it’s good level design
Just make Grimrock 3, the devs never will ..
If I had the skill, I would!
Also: You should play Vaporum 1 and 2, and StarCrawlers: Chimera if you're looking for other games in that style :)
@@TheCrawl thanks !
@@TheCrawl sorry, what vaporum game is the first
Nice to see a video trying to encourage people to reach for their goals when 3 years later you never met your goals yourself.
Unfortunately, I did make and release a dungeon crawler last year, so my goal of making and releasing a video game was achieved lol
okay wait.
Japanese, Western, Action, Classic, Tactical/Tabletop, Massive Multiplayer Online...
What's a DRPG?
Ah, "Dungeon". ... ... *...so a blobber?*
So, yes--but there's a difference. Not all Blobbers are Drpgs, but (most) DRPGs are blobbers lol. DRPG is usually used for games that are hyper-specific about being set in dungeons (or dungeon-like environments), and almost all of them based on the template set by the first Wizardry games--so grid-based movement, usually turn-based combat against random encounters, etc.
ive been playing dungeon crawlers for over 30 years and NOBODY ever called them DRPG. This is literally the first time ive ever heard it called that. They have ALWAYS been Dungeon Crawlers.
It's very common among fans of Japanese dungeon crawlers. www.reddit.com/r/DRPG/comments/15iofed/drpgs_with_lots_of_content/
I wonder could elements of Fallout new vegas, dark souls, wasteland 3 and Legend of grimrock 1 and 2 be combined into a D-RPG. I hope more indie dev make more stuff like legend of grimrock rather than yet another shitty roguelike.
Depending on which specific elements you mean, I definitely think something like that could exist. Your description actually brings to mind the DRPG Aeon of Sands: store.steampowered.com/app/907820/Aeon_of_Sands__The_Trail/
Because it's 1994? again?