I love this kind of video and your enthusiasm for the product is very compelling. I am on a tight budget now though as I have just retired so any purchases need to make a big difference to my system but I do enjoy watching them anyway and who knows one may pop up on eBay in a couple of years so I will have to make a note in my wants notebook.
I use a Bergmann too. You mentioned about the number of coils in the cartridge. I find out the same thing as well. It’s not just the number of coils, it’s the cantilever as well! So I gave up listening to my Dunavector 1t and settled for half of her price Audio Technika Art 1000! It has no cantilever and only two or three coils. It uses neodymium magnets to enable it to generate enough current. I think it’s the best cartridge I have ever had!
I bought two things recently that really improved my system: Kef R3 Meta and an Audioquest carbon fibre brush. The brush really does scrape out soo much dust from the grooves and remove static, excellent job. The Kef R3 meta coupled with my Accuphase E211 and Music Hall with Ortofon 2M Blue just blow my mind now. Holy smokes. The imaging and space and breath given to the instruments and voice, wow. Everything through these speakers, bass, midrange and treble has improved my system so much. Very happy camper here.
Hello Terry. Greetings from Chandigarh, India. This will be a long comment.... Your video fully validates my experience. I have a Garrard 301 grease bearing mounted with 2 arms. An SME 3009 SERIES ONE WITH ORTOFON SPU CLASSIC & SME SERIES TWO WITH DENON DL 103R. The latter goes directly into PS AUDIO STELLAR phonostage MC input, while the former goes through an ORTOFON VERYO STEP UP TRANSFORMER (very similar to the one in your video). There is no comparison and the SUT sprinkles magic dust on the sound. By switching the paths of both cartridges there is magic with the DENON. Before I acquired the PS AUDIO STELLAR I was taking the output from the SUT (tried both cartridges) into my PHASE LINEAR 4000 PREAMP which has an outstanding phonostage with 2 pairs of MM inputs. I daresay it was as good or better than the PS AUDIO STELLAR coupled with the SUT. I have 4 more turntables and a dozen MM cartridges (best being ORTOFON OM 40) & 4 more preamps (2 of which have MC inputs too). Have experimented with all possible permutations & combinations. But the magic dissapears even with the SUT if put into any of the other preamps. So here is is my conclusion: Both things are important. The SUT as well as the phonostage. Most inbuilt phonostages in oreamps or integrated amps do not output 2 volts to the power amp/section. This is why the verve and solidity of the sound is missing. So gain matters at ALL stages. The only way it worked for me was with the MC CARTRIDGE into the SUT into either PHASE LINEAR 4000 PREAMP or PS AUDIO STELLAR PHONOSTAGE. All other combinations paled into being amaemic & insipid. Parting note: SUT are cartrige specific due to the interplay between gain & load. The verti, like the one in your video are iseal for ORTOFON SPU line & also DENON DL 103R. I urge you to try these relatively inexpensive cartridges in your set up. Cheers!
Been using a SUT preamp from Orso Audio with tube amplification into open baffle speakers and the sound is very nice indeed. As some mentioned already changing the loading settings (by swapping resistors for my SUT) to impedence match the MC cartridge to the MM phono preamp is very important. Keep up the great work.
You made a lot of very valid points in your video. It’s about a very long signal path starting with the recording and ending in the ear. My current pair of turntables have been a work in progress. As cost is doubled I tend to choose carefully. It’s about making the best reproduction from the record and hence the reason why some will have different pressing of the same record. You might find that a different pressing can make a change in what you hear! I found that improving parts of the audio system gave a better reproduction to the extent that I could hear things I had not heard before. They had always been there just hidden by a system that could not present them. It can be a journey of discovery.
Definitely worth trying a Whest Reference Series Class A Phono Pre Amp. Absolute game changer, and customisable with dip switches for any cartridge. I was constantly changing cartridges and phono amps, but the increase in quality has ultimately let me run cheaper MC cartridges with impressive results.
You're pretty much correct, step up transformers are fantastic at a price point, with up to £2000 MC cartridge and a decent phono input you'll get great results. When you start to get higher up the food chain £2000+ cartridges you need a phono stage with which you can adjust impedance and gain (preferably on the fly). A good rule of thumb seems to be to spend about 50% more on a phono stage than on your main cartridge. A great deal will depend on how you want your records to sound, is your music collection mainly old well played records or are they new audiophile pressings etc.... You have the basis of a really nice set up. Personally, I like high mass turntables, 12" gimballed arms, I'm very happy with my Ortofon Cadenza Black and my Rega Aura phono stage. It suits my musical taste perfectly, ranging between folk, folk rock all the way to heavier stoner rock with a mix of old OG pressings to new audiophile pressings, but everyone's milage and taste varies radically. I'd love to know what you make of Technics SL-1200G/1210G? With your taste dance/ electronic bass heavy music, I can't help but think it might be something that you'd like to review with your current cartridge phono amplification set up.
MC cartridges have been around for over 50 years. I use the ELAC Alchemy Phono Preamplifier - PPA-2, located near the turntable, with great results. The single ended gain is 60 dB. There is also impedance matching.
Hi Terry, the one thing u haven’t mentioned which is very important is how the step up will effect the loading of your mc cartridge this is equally important to sound quality of your playback
Think it also depends on what genre you listen to and if spending loads of dosh on a box or the vinyl itself is a better way of spending your money. I listen to old Soul and reggae mainly on 45s some ( especially the reggae ) is usually battered or at best VG+ in grading as finding mint condition 45s for the tunes I’m after would need 4 figures. I do agree that moving to a separate phono stage is an essential upgrade. It was night and day in my system. 👍🏻
Good, thoughtful, observations here Terry. This is my first listen to your channel and I like it very much. I have a Denon HA 500 head amp and a Ortofon ST-7. The Ortofon is a better sounding solution for my setup. The ST-7 goes for around $500.00 here in the US. But I’ve seen them around $350.00 including shipping from Japan. Tech support from Ortofon is excellent b the way. A great team that knows their craft. Best regards
Glad the SUT worked. I love SUTs and each transformer has its own sound. Try the cheap ifi iphono 3. Seriously try it compared to high end phono stages.
The advice I give my friends regarding turntables and records versus digital playback, is you have two choices, one is to enjoy the experience playing records And just have fun. The second choice is going deep and spend at least 5000 bucks to get a different experience, maybe not better but different. Setting up a turntable and cartridge can be challenging where digital is plug and play I am a fan of both, but I do not recommend it to everyone. Cheers from Montreal 😊 Sidenote, I found a do it yourself kit from past labs in the USA phono preamp that is extremely good, maybe not the best but pretty close For under 1500 bucks
Very interesting approach, Terry. I found that changing the settings on my Vertere Phono-1 had a huge impact on the sound of my MC set up. I made changes to all three parameters, specifically, gain, impedance and capacitance. The last, in particular, is also impacted by the type of cables you are using between the arm and the phono stage, so this forms part of the whole chain between the stylus and the main amplifier. Gain lift improved the life in the sound and reduced background noise. Changing capacitance altered the tonal balance of the sound. Reducing impedance breathed life and energy into the bass with no loss of control. I don’t see how a step up transformer eliminates the need to provide the most appropriate interface match to cartridges which vary so much in their output characteristics. Clearly as people are passionate about SUTs, I’m missing something. However, I think this is perhaps your next comparison route.
As you should know, only MM cartridges are affected by capacitance of the phono+cable. Clearly you are missing something, as you say, because a transformer only changes I to V and it has negligible effect on sound quality. It's about preservation of information, and since a transformer is just 2 coils it has a big advantage over any active amplification. Messing with settings does not make it better. The transformer just ups the V according to its ratio, reduces I (since VI=constant) and reduces the impedance of your phono stage (47000Ohm) according to the square of the ratio. Example: 47k and ratio 1:13 (Ortofon?) gives 47000/13x13≈280 ohms Since you need about 10x the internal impedance of the cartridge you can use cartridges up to 30 ohms with it. I would like to see a phono amp that gives you many options below 30 to give you a closer fit. It will hardly change the character (or sound better).
I've always enjoyed your videos, as you seem to be down-to-earth, your opinions are credible, and never appear to be the result of taking a position of neither a subjectivist, nor an objectivist. Near or on top of the fence is my own position too. Interesting as it is, I can't really make any comments on the contents in this video, as I haven't yet moved into the SUT territory (yet). But there's an aspect of HiFi I'd love to hear your opinion on, namely the perceived benefits of always striving for neutral gear. See, I am of the opinion that, IF you succeed in putting together a HiFi system consisting of neutral gear, there are two clear and obvious benefits to it, one being that it's easier to swap a piece of equipment to another neutral piece without risking to exaggerate or understate a certain frequency range. The other benefit being it's my firm belief, that you cannot get any closer to the sound character of the 'original event' whatever that may be, if you are using equipment that exaggerate or understate certain frequency ranges. This thing is to me a very important property of my entire system, and I often wonder why so few audiophiles talk about this. HiFi has been my main interest for almost 58 years, and I believe I've found the 'holy grail' in my life long quest for great, pleasant, detailed, but also non-fatiguing sound. I've been live on stage numerous times, in recording studios too, and at plenty live events, so I feel that I know the true sound of musical instruments. Any comments pls?
Very interesting, nicely done. You’re definitely going to more trouble than most. A high end Denon integrated amp pma a100 phono stage or the ifI zen phono with Denon 301 mk2 and Nagaoka mp 200 are as far as I’ve gone. MC a little better for sure but both good. I couldn’t tell any difference in the two phono stages. Your system goes to 11. I’d like you to review the B&W 703 s3 with the decoupled tweeter and mid and almost no defracting baffle.
Thanks, my current goal is to take it as far as I can to give myself a reference benchmark for what is possible in my room to some degree so then I can scale down and know how good more affordable gear is. I feel it’s very important to go big initially to get that experience otherwise you never really know. This is all possible because it’s my job and I can get stuff to use that I would struggle to afford at this rate. I did buy the degritter though that is mine.
Well record cleaning is more of a Pandoras box than the SUT, using only distilled water doesn’t help the cleaning, im saying this from personal experience, i started with the classic OkkiNokki and moved to ultrasonic, if you want to make a difference in cleaning either you dilute some L’art du son concentrate in the water you use to clean your records or you can find some recepies on internet. Im using a blend of BAC50 - Polysorbate 80 - Isopropyl alcohol and distilled water and it make a very big difference, i know is a bit of a faf having to mix and dilute but otherwise it doesn’t really matter how much money you spend on a ultrasonic record cleaning machine because is not going to make a difference if you only use distilled water. Is only a friendly advice.
I very much look forward to your next video on vinyl , I love this stuff. My linn lp12 is away have lingo mk4 power supply upgrade. I decided to stay with mm adikt cartridge for now. To change to linn krystal mc cartridge and buy a SUT would be over 3 thousand pounds. I buy a lot of use vinyl records I can easily change the styles on the adikt cartridge. Vinyl cut from digital masters sound not so good. All analogue vinyl have the full vinyl magic in sound. As soon as analogue is digitised the magic is lost to some degree. When your listening Terry bear this in mind. Digital vinyl bad.
Yes..............i agree with your comment on digiatl vinyl ! Digital sucks out the magic ..even if it "can " sound impressive it's not magic ! For example I have some records ( mostly live ) that have been badly recorded with plenty of distortion.....something like The Creedence Clearwater revival /Live in Europe ...BUT woaw the feeling of the magic is in the air and the concert is there alive ...and I wished to have been at that concert ......same recording digital remasterd or on CD souinds only bad and has no soul . I am happy to have kept all my records I bought before digital transfers and masters .........and after listening It is always difficult to go back to digital........ MC has the edge ........I can even enjoy the height of the places wher it is recorded, something like raindrops falling down or from the ceiling of a cave... Some MM are also very good ..........and better a good MM than a lesser quality MC. My choice is a SUT ( Mitchell Cotter MK2L ) since the seventies ......stil beats most of the newbies ....it costed me a fortune at that time , I never regret I bouight it then .
Nice video, I have been using a SUT since the early 80's and never felt the need to change, it feeds an Audio Innovations Series 1000 valve phono stage, very rare but old now. I have been looking at the Michael Fiddler MC Pro which others have mentioned, this would be a great review to do and support a local UK specialist builder. I would love to know how this product compares and your thoughts, there are very few reviews on this product sadly 👍
If you are using the SUT on the MC input you are defintely overdriving the input. The SUT is designed to increase the level and also deliver a 47k ohm resistance output which is the standard resistance of MM phono. There is an article I read where it explains how to calculate the required gain for cartridge output, I’ll post it when I find it
Why would that be the case @sonicmainliner? Sure, depending on the ratio of the step-up transformer, it may be advisable to change the input resistor on your phonostage depending on what the suggested loading is for your cartridge. The Luxman LMC-5 in Terry's is a 4,7 Ohm cartridge and Luxman suggests a loading of 2,5-10 Ohms when used with a step-up, however, this is by no means set in stone. If it sounds fine without any loading except whatever the cartridge "sees" when the signal passes through the windings of the step-up, you don't have to do anything. The ST 80 SE has a ratio of about 1:22. I'm using a vintage step-up with a ratio of 1:10 with my Luxman LMC-5 and it sounds just fine plugged into my Leben RS30EQ phonostage with a 47k Ohm input. You might hear some changes in the sound with a different loading but it will not harm the cartridge in any way, at least in this case.
There is something really strange about the YBA phono. I looked it up and the MC input is not merely unique but does some serious juggling with specs. It states 47k on the MC input which is totally not normal. Also 50dB is ridiculously low. It's like hanging new curtains with a footstool. The manufacturer is really tight lipped about what range of impedance it provides. What it does say: it uses a proprietary transformer on the MC! So that means Terry daisy chained 2 transformers!? Yet it worked. My guess is the transformer has different taps and the opamps can reduce amplification to 24dB (less sounds better, I know, I made one like this). The transformer inside is 26dB the site says. Same as the Ortofon, but at it's max. The only way I can think of YBA does some serious tricks switching amplification between several transformer taps and opamps to keep impedance managed. Calculating impedance with a transformer is easy if you toss aside the manufacturer mumbo jumbo about 'impedance matching'. That's just terribly confusing. Use the RATIO. Like 1:13. Square the number and devide by that amount. Ergo 47k /13² =278 Ohm. My guess is the YBA can make a tap for a 1:2 transformer reducing that even 4x (2²) if tethered to 45dB opamp gives 51dB +26dB for the Ortofon. 50dB for the Luxman is problematic. 77dB is pretty loud. But the tranny adds no noise. (Unlike the rainbow colored ones, which are very vocal 😊).
Yes but also the Luxman EQ500 is only 55db on its MC input that would work best for this cartridge so that is worth considering. I am questioning how important is this and what are the pros and cons to more and less gain. More gain I assume more noise - I dont know but will be looking into it when I get my hands on other phonos which will be happening this year
@@PursuitPerfectSystem I may be talking out of my backside here, but as far as I understand it, a proper loading (or improper, depending on the situation) will change the shape of the RIAA equalization curve where you will move the top end "hump" in the curve further up in the frequency response or further down. Same deal with the lower end "dip" in the frequency curve. The gain by itself is not the number to stare yourself blind at.
The YBA could handle alone the Luxman cart with great result because loading can be adjusted as low as 3 Ohms. The YBA is battery powered which is a bonus. I am surprised you needed a SUT connected into the MC inlet on the top of that. It sounds like a bit "overcharged" now. There must be impedance matching problem somewhere in the system if you still got not enough gain and punch and need a SUT to solve the problems. Lots of people got this problem BTW. Impedance matching through the whole system can be challenging if we mix-matching brands, different type circuit topologies, etc.
I think you need now to try a really good phono stage like the two from primare audio and pitch this against the step up transformer set. And go from there. And the winner is. Make your choice. Dam good video Terry. Spot on the money.
To go better than this phono your looking in the £3k-£10k range, others have more options and flexibility but I dont think that will make them better, just more flexible. But I will be testing some others out for sure.
@@PursuitPerfectSystem If you need to add in a transformer to get the sound your after or satisfied with surely the phono stage should be enough on its own. Having it set to mc should be more than enough gain. No transformer is needed. Does this tell you something is miss matched. Your cartridge mit have a low sensitivity. Or the phono stage needs changing. Your phono mc stage needs more gain. Something like a primare stage with lots of setting is a must. A phono stage with adjustments will accommodate any cartridge. No need to spend thousands Terry. Choose cartridge and phono stage more appropriately. Try different gear Terry. Tried and tested that match. What's wrong with sticking with moving magnet, nagaoka mp-500 or mp-300. Spending more money does not get better sound. It's just different in sound. Choose different equipment and start again. Something with synergy.
This is the whole point of the video - maybe your missing out not using a step up, it might not be about "needing" it it might be about the benefit it brings you wouldn't get from the phono stage alone - that is what I am keen to test because some of the really nice units I have my eye on have them built in and there is a reason for that.
I will leave it with Terry. The vinyl journey continues. Ps audio make a good phono stage. Active phono stages and passive ones. Witch one will you choose. The vinyl journey has a fork in the road. Witch way you going.
Both ways Mark I dont have to draw a line in the sand, my job is to explore and report back. I will never do things the conventional way, I am awkward about everything :)
I notice that the YBA PH1 has no resistance adjustments for MC inputs, it's just fixed at 47kOhm. MC carts have seriously different sounds with different resistances. I found that with my EAT eglow petite PS and a Soundsmith Zephyr MIMC* cart (and also previous Vincent PHO701). So the impedance of the SUT maybe what you hear as a good synergy with your particular cart. I would rather put my money into a better PS where I can select resistance with MC inputs rather than adding a SUT with unknown resistance. my 2c.
Hi Terry, I've just discovered your channel... Love the content! So about 'looking for that next big box upgrade', how hard are you looking, or more accurately how hard are you listening? I've been treading the audiophile path for about 45 years, and there have been some stunning upgrades along the way (installing a heavy guage dedicated mians ring was the most surprising 'stellar' improvement) which really make me focus on 'what has got better?''. But am I listening too hard? A few years back I took some meditation classes, nice idea but the location was next to a very noisy road which kinda destroyed the zen. When we told the teacher that the road noise was intruding he taught us an inner silence meditation, basically imagining that the room is utterly silent and then focussing on listening to that percieved silence. It took a few sessions before I managed it, but eventually it worked, by actively listening to the silence I stopped listening to the road noise and I found the zen. I recently wondered what if I did the same while listening to music... sounds daft but what if I deliberately listen to perceived silence so that I'm not actively listening to the music. Again it took a while to find the silence, but when i did it was very revealing... previously I'd been analysing how good the soundstaging was , but as soon as I stopped analysing, the instruments just naturally placed themselves, far more precisely and with much greater separation than I'd ever achieved by trying to mentally place them. Once I'd created a mental image of a silent stage, my brain was very comfortable with placing the performers into it (it's how we naturally process ambient sound). And other analytical questions like PRAT also became redundant, it was very much a feeling of immersion in the performance, it wasn't about what made it sound so amazing, it was that it did sound so amazing. At this point you're probably wondering if I'd been smoking some dodgy substances... absolutely not. I do remember from my teens how Led Zep's Kashmir on a ghetto blaster was a profound audio nirvana experience after smoking a fat one, but I haven't touched drugs for over 30 years. Was that Led Zep moment because the dope did the same trick of letting my brain process the sound on autopilot? Probably not, if that was the case I should've clearly perceived a cheap lousy casstte player. My recent inner silence listening experiences do achieve that same level of audio nirvana, without all of the drug related disorientation, paranoia and destroyed brain cells, that have impacted my later life (kids, don't do it!). From an audiophile upgrade perspective, the great thing about this meditation suggestion is that it's absolutely free. For me it's been the best value 'upgrade step' possible. Has it cured that hungry audiphile curse? Nah, now I'm wondering if wearing an orange sheet and shaving my little remaing hair off will improve the sound quality even more? (written with total respect for Buddists, they were awesome meditation teachers)
Great video, this has inspired me to upgrade my vinyl setup, but I'm not sure where to start. Got a Uturn audio turntable, Grado Black cartridge, and a Rega fono mini phono preamp. I also have a high end London Maroon cartridge sitting on a shelf. I definitely can't get that cart to work with my Uturn, need some suggestions on turntables maybe in the $1k-$2k range that have a high mass tonearm and adjustable VTA. Any suggestions would be appreciated!
Looks like a fantastic set up but for me it all seems a bit complicated and dare I say expensive 🤔 I’m on the fence about buying a turntable but I would only consider something a bit more plug n play, mainly due to the fact I really don’t have time or finances to invest in some of additional components in this review. I have an humble Naim Uniti Nova digital set up and it sounds great and is so easy and convenient to use.
I started the journey with a nice plug and play and have made a number of videos about it so it can help others start theirs. I have a playlist for them or just look in my channel for my vinyl videos
Ah i thought you might have got the Degritter, when you mentioned you got a cleaning system. It's got very good reviews. How does that step up transformer work without any power? I would have thought that without power it would have a negative impact. Oh well. If it works, dont question it!
The transformer steps up the voltage(as in the national grid system but not to those sort of voltages 🙂). It’s about voltage gain in the early stages of amplification. The transformer will actually introduce an insignificant small power loss. It will also by its design increase the impedance of the cartridge to something more suitable for a phono input. Putting this into a MC input will be an impedance and voltage mismatch but if the desired effect is one you like and it works for you-great.
Funny, but I seem to have experienced some kind of "burn-in" with either the ST-80 SE, with the interconnects, or whatever the case might be during the first 3-4 weeks after I added the ST-80. The step-up and the interconnects are the only recent changes I've made.
To me its about looks. Sound? Its got to be good, but is it possible to detect the difference between bloody good and anything better? Are we kidding ourselves? Better sound in a few key areas? What does that mean? Maybe a difference in barometric pressure changes sound. I.e. the weather affects the transmition of sound. Who knows. But all that expense and faff over something that lasts twenty minutes at best. However I do like that step up unit from Ortofon, it being passive AND good looking. The price? If it was £250 maybe, but £1800?
If you're using a +26db SUT into the MC input of that Phono (+50db) for a 0.4mv cartridge, you are without question over amplifying the Luxman's output by likely 10db to 20db.. You will get a saturated "full" sound at the expense of compressed dynamics- crushed headroom.
I am now testing another phono now and maybe a little but not that much, really. You would be hard pressed to say 100% because a different phono sounds different. Especially when you change the resistance it sounds totally different in the dynamics
@@PursuitPerfectSystem 76db is objectively too high for a 0.4mv cartridge. Its an order of magnitude too loud in fact. Did you also adjust the caryridge loading to compensate for the SUT's ratio?
Wait, so the gain on a phono stage should be HIGHER rather than lower!? The person who sold me mine said to keep it as low as I can tolerate it, because adding gain at that stage will add more distortion. Is that not true? Have I been missing out on the cartridge/stylus potential by keeping the gain at 40db!? You called 50 low, and I’m well below even that!
You mentioned Origin Live, whose founder you interviewed, and spoke glowingly of their products, yet you eschew their equipment. From what I gather they are comparatively priced to your current setup. Pure Fidelity turntables use Original Live tonearms on their 5 figure models. Care to comment on why you didn’t choose an Origin Live setup?
I will be getting one of their tables and setups in but I had the chance to live with a high end air bearing setup from Bergmann who wouldn't jump at that chance. For me its a great way to experience something different too
Yea proper loading will make a big improvement. Looks like Luxmen recommends 40 ohms. Does the YBA have an adjustment? If not try the cart with a phono pre that does both proper gain (60db or so) and can load down to 40 ohms (which is really low). Even if it does the step up transformer is set for a MM (47k - 10x to high) so I'd skip the step up transformer. It might then beat your digital set up.
This video is proof that the audiophile claws have certainly gained purchase on your wallet. Best wishes that you have the self control to stop slightly before you exceed your means and/or piss off family members. The land of diminishing returns are just around the corner my friend. Push the envelope as hard as you can until the resistance says stop pushing. Good luck identifying that point in your journey.😊
This is my job so I have spent much more money on buying records than buying the equipment, I also know the law of diminishing returns doesn't exist, thats the excuse people use when they hit a limit somewhere in the their room and system and haven't worked out what it is yet. There is of course a limit to sound quality but I can never hit it in my small room
@PursuitPerfectSystem cool, investing in quality source material is has a big ROI in my opinion. My experience has been that focusing on system synergy is more satisfying than upgrading. Once you have a completely synergistic rig, you can reach a wow moment where you don't want further change. Done right, this momment happens WAY cheaper than not done right. Mileage and wallets vary of course. Just saying that with a trained ear and decent tweeking skills, you can reach the point of satisfaction and demishing returns at a lower price point than those lacking the killer source material, listening skills and ability to make adjustments to satisfy their quest. I have seen friends s spend countless money and time in pursuit of what could have been obtained far cheaper with achieving synergy through room treatment, component matching, proper power, and matched cable choices. Ears are like opinions.......
Back about 76/77 I heard my first direct to disc albums - The recording went directly to a master disc and only 100,000 were made. The sound quality was like magic. No clicks and pops and the dynamic range was spectator for the day as was any background noise. Back then there was a click and pop digital device that went a long way in doing a great job. Can't remember the company name now and it was far from cheap. Just checked and today $1250 CAN based in the bank of Canada's inflation calculator.
Transsformers do not aplified the signal, they just inreas or decreas the voltage. That not equal to amplification. If you use step up transformer you increas voltage bnad reduce current. The only reason to use transformer is to make proper match to your cartig. Transformers have own frequency limitation (it is difficult to make wide band transformer).
All true but not relevant. The bandwidth of this transformer is very wide (2-100k). That's why it is so expensive. It IS well made. A transformer does exactly what the name says: it transforms energy. But since most amplifiers need Voltage to amplify, swapping I for V is the ideal trade. 'matching' the impedance is just the mathematical consequence of this I to V trade.
To get a better vinyl sound. Forget most of what you believe and bought. Be in a good mood and expect nothing from the vinyl. The results are amazing and cost nothing.
Thinking about significant digits... I really wonder whether the cutting stylus wouldn't naturally have MUCH MORE mass than the cartridge you are reproducing the record with. If so, the record is cut on a lathe that drives like a dump-truck, and you are swapping out the Jaguar for an MG. Again, in terms of resolution, the MC must be orders of magnitude beyond significance.
I think it’s ok, otherwise the time it takes to start and stop the heavy platter is untenable. I think this way makes more sense as every time you start the platter you put the maximum exertion on the belt and that is not good in the long run
Unless you have a slipmat, felt mat on the platter. Linn owners do it all the time. That said: I really dislike felt mats. They cling to your vinyl (static) and the sound is robbed of dynamics and bass. I rather use no mat on a delrin/perspex/alu platter. Or a perspex platter, or the Funk Firm achromat. I do stop the platter, clamp down the lp, then give it a last swirl to jumpstart the platter and then start the motor. From 0-33rpm in 1 second. 😂
It sounds supercharged because you have too much gain by running the transformer into the MC input. That's why you are hearing more surface noise and other detritus, too much gain. It's like having a graphic equalizer and turning all of the bands way up, you may like it for awhile but eventually you get tired of it.
If that is the cause , then fine I don't mind, to be honest I don't get tired of exciting sound I get very bored and restless with dull sound and vinyl can sound very dull, thin lacking drama and dynamics if your not careful and that is not a sound I am looking for. I dont listen to records from the 50s I listen to modern music and maybe that is why. If your system is suppressing vinyl noise and nasties its suppressing other things too, I am sure there is a balance to be had but still I am sure its true.
50 dB of gain that's ridiculous not supposing you're having trouble, what is this signal to noise ratio this phono stage? You should really check out the (MC Pro classic audio) you have a maximum of 73 DB and a staggering 81.5db snr Andremarkably priced way below what it should be. You should definitely get one in I'm sure he will lend you one or buy one you don't need anything else than this it's the holy grail. Did you work out what was causing your hum did it help disconnecting the pump? Another thing don't ground the phono stage this will cause you problems with hum instead take the ground wire to the amplifier chassis. Binding nut. Anyway go support that English guy and get that phono stage you won't regret it.
Yeah I did a bit more testing with the grounding and tested what was what, connecting the amp to the preamp was the missing link I think and connecting to the mains made things worse. That was an important test as it showed me if there was already a good path to ground and there was. The yba spec is a little confusing there are 2 gain levels mentioned. 26db and then 45/50 so there is potentially more but I don’t think that would change the result as I was listening at the same volume even with the step up in the system. I am pretty sure just having high gain is not the answer because it’s how the gain is achieved that will matter more but this is just my theory at the moment
@@PursuitPerfectSystem you need high gain for an MC low output only if it's an MC high gain output then not so much. When you said you connected the preamp ?? to the amp what do you mean by that? Are you talking about the phono stage? Yes if the phono stage wasn't connected to the amp that makes sense but you don't need to connect it to the phono stage anyway just connect it directly to the amp from the turntable. doing the same thing as connecting to the phonostage and then to the amp, but you really want to bypass that circuit to the phonostage. have a look at,,Rothwell,,lots of information about step up transformers good read, and different types of winding for different types of cartridges, and they give you a chart, reasonable about 250 to about 500 and they use a Swiss transformer the same asOrton,.uses. Check the MC Pro you won'tregretit,and it is xlr out. and it's got a really good feature a low frequency cross talk cancellation about -23 DB you don't see this very really, this give you better bass and stop bass cancellation the same as direct live in a switch. Even a higher base frequencies will work better less work for the speakers and room reflection. it has a lower grain setting of 63 DB so that's more suitable for step up transformers. What is the winding ratio of the one you've got from Orton? See what the cartridge manufacturer recommend probably 1 to 10 ratio at 100 ohms give you a flat square wave. Don't worry about resistance or impedance just concentrate on voltage output try and get it through calculation at 0.5 volts when you take in the factor of the voltage of the cartridge and the step up transformers ratio that's what you're looking at for the phono stage .5
I meant connecting the ground between the pre and power, the pre is passive so I didn't think it would matter but it did for some reason so that was getting the noise floor down so low I could hit max volume then all you can hear is what the cartridge picks up from airbourne vibration - which is pretty mental. I know that is a very big positive of this phono stage, its very clean coming off battery.
Also the Luxman EQ500 which you would assume is perfect for this Luxman cartridge only has 55db of gain for its MC high and high being 0.4mV so its not crazy to only have 50db, I only just found that out myself. I was not expecting that
I just dislike how Vinyl is noisy and difficult to digitally clean up, Lets not forget that for a very long time vinyl has been cut and pressed from magnetic master tapes which in my opinion makes Vinyl inferior to wide reel to reel tape but of course reel to reel has never been easily and widely available to most music enjoyers (Including Myself), By the 90s there was a huge decline in vinyl in favour of cassette and CD thanks to their compact and portable nature and at the same time there also began remastering essentially tweaking or cleaning up how a song or album sounds removing the classic sound of a song or adding gimmicky stereo effects for bands which had specific tapes for each instrument and vocals, although it was known for there to occasionally be re-recordings or remixing in the 70s and 80s, By the 2010s Vinyl Resurgence began and vinyl was being cut and pressed from remastered digital files losing the original mixing of the song or albums which to me loses the nostalgic sound and appeal of vinyl, There's no doubt that vinyl with a decent turntable will have a better frequency response than cassette but vinyl is infinitely more difficult / time consuming or simply not possible to digitally clean up due to the pops, cracks, clicks, noise and rumble than it is to digitally remove hiss from an undamaged unrotted cassette digitised with a decent high quality deck, The only reason to favour vinyl over CDs is because of original pressings which contain the original and nostalgic mixing of a song or album rather than modern "Remixes" or "Remasters", In my opinion buying newly pressed vinyl from a modern cut disc is a massive gimmick and you gain nothing over CD other than noise, Its debated that CD sounds worse than vinyl due to compression and if this "is" true it would be like having slightly worn tyres on a car then paying triple or more the cost and getting tyres which are worn in a different way.
A lot of work and money for what? A much better sound than digital? I don’t think 🤔 so. Just a waste of money for ‘normal’ people with a normal income, in my opinion. Although, when I see the new Denon direct drive turntable, I want to have it!
@@PursuitPerfectSystemI can, but common sense tells me, it’s just not worth it, if you have a good digital system already. And by the way: I like to play my music randomly. And most vinyl recordings are having a digital base.
@@PursuitPerfectSystem That’s true and it’s old school listening which gives a special atmosphere. Anyhow, thanks 🙏 for your great channel and reviews, I love to watch!
I am a professional audio reviewer, I tell you what £1500 for two transformers sounds like so it might help you decide if it’s worth testing for yourself. But I agree it seems like a lot for what it is but maybe not for what it does and there is obviously a difference there
What 'perfection'? Do you mean 'perfect sound forever'(TM)-Sony? Or perhaps the corporate compression and clipping that is done to everything released after 1992? People prefer vinyl, mostly older vinyl, because the clipping and compression weren't applied to the music back then. The music sounds alive and exciting. Personally, I digitized all my vinyl at 2496, and eliminated the pops and clicks and rumble manually. I now get the best of both worlds - no compression and clipping, hi-fi sound, and no vinyl noises. Of course, it has taken several decades of work, but hey... Being 'digital' does NOT, in any sense of the word, mean "perfection". There's a lot more to consider in order to approach perfection.
I love this kind of video and your enthusiasm for the product is very compelling. I am on a tight budget now though as I have just retired so any purchases need to make a big difference to my system but I do enjoy watching them anyway and who knows one may pop up on eBay in a couple of years so I will have to make a note in my wants notebook.
Also kudos! Yours is the only content across youtube which properly addresses the issue. Loved it!!
I use a Bergmann too. You mentioned about the number of coils in the cartridge. I find out the same thing as well. It’s not just the number of coils, it’s the cantilever as well! So I gave up listening to my Dunavector 1t and settled for half of her price Audio Technika Art 1000!
It has no cantilever and only two or three coils. It uses neodymium magnets to enable it to generate enough current. I think it’s the best cartridge I have ever had!
You are going down a very deep/(expensive) rabbit hole, with Vinyl upgrades
That is my job mate to do that and report back, it’s a hell of a lot of fun
Need an apprentice lol
It IS expensive, but the benefits are great ;)
@@PursuitPerfectSystemhere you are one helper, if you please.
Be careful chasing perfection can become an obsession. Also, as the years elapse all this hi tech will become outdated and not the best anymore .
I bought two things recently that really improved my system: Kef R3 Meta and an Audioquest carbon fibre brush. The brush really does scrape out soo much dust from the grooves and remove static, excellent job. The Kef R3 meta coupled with my Accuphase E211 and Music Hall with Ortofon 2M Blue just blow my mind now. Holy smokes. The imaging and space and breath given to the instruments and voice, wow. Everything through these speakers, bass, midrange and treble has improved my system so much. Very happy camper here.
Hello Terry. Greetings from Chandigarh, India. This will be a long comment....
Your video fully validates my experience.
I have a Garrard 301 grease bearing mounted with 2 arms. An SME 3009 SERIES ONE WITH ORTOFON SPU CLASSIC & SME SERIES TWO WITH DENON DL 103R. The latter goes directly into PS AUDIO STELLAR phonostage MC input, while the former goes through an ORTOFON VERYO STEP UP TRANSFORMER (very similar to the one in your video). There is no comparison and the SUT sprinkles magic dust on the sound. By switching the paths of both cartridges there is magic with the DENON. Before I acquired the PS AUDIO STELLAR I was taking the output from the SUT (tried both cartridges) into my PHASE LINEAR 4000 PREAMP which has an outstanding phonostage with 2 pairs of MM inputs. I daresay it was as good or better than the PS AUDIO STELLAR coupled with the SUT.
I have 4 more turntables and a dozen MM cartridges (best being ORTOFON OM 40) & 4 more preamps (2 of which have MC inputs too). Have experimented with all possible permutations & combinations. But the magic dissapears even with the SUT if put into any of the other preamps.
So here is is my conclusion: Both things are important. The SUT as well as the phonostage. Most inbuilt phonostages in oreamps or integrated amps do not output 2 volts to the power amp/section. This is why the verve and solidity of the sound is missing. So gain matters at ALL stages. The only way it worked for me was with the MC CARTRIDGE into the SUT into either PHASE LINEAR 4000 PREAMP or PS AUDIO STELLAR PHONOSTAGE. All other combinations paled into being amaemic & insipid.
Parting note: SUT are cartrige specific due to the interplay between gain & load. The verti, like the one in your video are iseal for ORTOFON SPU line & also DENON DL 103R. I urge you to try these relatively inexpensive cartridges in your set up.
Cheers!
Been using a SUT preamp from Orso Audio with tube amplification into open baffle speakers and the sound is very nice indeed. As some mentioned already changing the loading settings (by swapping resistors for my SUT) to impedence match the MC cartridge to the MM phono preamp is very important. Keep up the great work.
You made a lot of very valid points in your video. It’s about a very long signal path starting with the recording and ending in the ear. My current pair of turntables have been a work in progress. As cost is doubled I tend to choose carefully. It’s about making the best reproduction from the record and hence the reason why some will have different pressing of the same record. You might find that a different pressing can make a change in what you hear! I found that improving parts of the audio system gave a better reproduction to the extent that I could hear things I had not heard before. They had always been there just hidden by a system that could not present them. It can be a journey of discovery.
Definitely worth trying a Whest Reference Series Class A Phono Pre Amp. Absolute game changer, and customisable with dip switches for any cartridge. I was constantly changing cartridges and phono amps, but the increase in quality has ultimately let me run cheaper MC cartridges with impressive results.
Really enjoyed this, Terry - looking forward to a review of that record cleaner!
You're pretty much correct, step up transformers are fantastic at a price point, with up to £2000 MC cartridge and a decent phono input you'll get great results. When you start to get higher up the food chain £2000+ cartridges you need a phono stage with which you can adjust impedance and gain (preferably on the fly). A good rule of thumb seems to be to spend about 50% more on a phono stage than on your main cartridge. A great deal will depend on how you want your records to sound, is your music collection mainly old well played records or are they new audiophile pressings etc.... You have the basis of a really nice set up. Personally, I like high mass turntables, 12" gimballed arms, I'm very happy with my Ortofon Cadenza Black and my Rega Aura phono stage. It suits my musical taste perfectly, ranging between folk, folk rock all the way to heavier stoner rock with a mix of old OG pressings to new audiophile pressings, but everyone's milage and taste varies radically.
I'd love to know what you make of Technics SL-1200G/1210G? With your taste dance/ electronic bass heavy music, I can't help but think it might be something that you'd like to review with your current cartridge phono amplification set up.
MC cartridges have been around for over 50 years. I use the ELAC Alchemy Phono Preamplifier - PPA-2, located near the turntable, with great results. The single ended gain is 60 dB. There is also impedance matching.
Hi Terry, the one thing u haven’t mentioned which is very important is how the step up will effect the loading of your mc cartridge this is equally important to sound quality of your playback
Think it also depends on what genre you listen to and if spending loads of dosh on a box or the vinyl itself is a better way of spending your money.
I listen to old Soul and reggae mainly on 45s some ( especially the reggae ) is usually battered or at best VG+ in grading as finding mint condition 45s for the tunes I’m after would need 4 figures.
I do agree that moving to a separate phono stage is an essential upgrade. It was night and day in my system. 👍🏻
Happy and Healthy Mew Year Terry!!!! Lots of love from the Big Apple🇺🇸
Glad you sorted your MC Gain issues, that YBA must be for hi-gain MC carts only by default.
Good, thoughtful, observations here Terry. This is my first listen to your channel and I like it very much. I have a Denon HA 500 head amp and a Ortofon ST-7. The Ortofon is a better sounding solution for my setup. The ST-7 goes for around $500.00 here in the US. But I’ve seen them around $350.00 including shipping from Japan. Tech support from Ortofon is excellent b the way. A great team that knows their craft. Best regards
Glad the SUT worked. I love SUTs and each transformer has its own sound. Try the cheap ifi iphono 3. Seriously try it compared to high end phono stages.
The advice I give my friends regarding turntables and records versus digital playback, is you have two choices, one is to enjoy the experience playing records And just have fun. The second choice is going deep and spend at least 5000 bucks to get a different experience, maybe not better but different. Setting up a turntable and cartridge can be challenging where digital is plug and play I am a fan of both, but I do not recommend it to everyone. Cheers from Montreal 😊 Sidenote, I found a do it yourself kit from past labs in the USA phono preamp that is extremely good, maybe not the best but pretty close For under 1500 bucks
Very interesting approach, Terry. I found that changing the settings on my Vertere Phono-1 had a huge impact on the sound of my MC set up. I made changes to all three parameters, specifically, gain, impedance and capacitance. The last, in particular, is also impacted by the type of cables you are using between the arm and the phono stage, so this forms part of the whole chain between the stylus and the main amplifier. Gain lift improved the life in the sound and reduced background noise. Changing capacitance altered the tonal balance of the sound. Reducing impedance breathed life and energy into the bass with no loss of control.
I don’t see how a step up transformer eliminates the need to provide the most appropriate interface match to cartridges which vary so much in their output characteristics. Clearly as people are passionate about SUTs, I’m missing something. However, I think this is perhaps your next comparison route.
Great comments Mark, yes it’s on my agenda for sure thanks for the suggestion
As you should know, only MM cartridges are affected by capacitance of the phono+cable.
Clearly you are missing something, as you say, because a transformer only changes I to V and it has negligible effect on sound quality. It's about preservation of information, and since a transformer is just 2 coils it has a big advantage over any active amplification. Messing with settings does not make it better.
The transformer just ups the V according to its ratio, reduces I (since VI=constant) and reduces the impedance of your phono stage (47000Ohm) according to the square of the ratio.
Example: 47k and ratio 1:13 (Ortofon?) gives 47000/13x13≈280 ohms
Since you need about 10x the internal impedance of the cartridge you can use cartridges up to 30 ohms with it. I would like to see a phono amp that gives you many options below 30 to give you a closer fit. It will hardly change the character (or sound better).
@@Jeep_on_audio I wonder why Vertere bothered to provide 9 discreet capacitance settings between 100pF and 1.02uF specifically for MC cartridges?
It's simple Excellent quality vintage audio
I've always enjoyed your videos, as you seem to be down-to-earth, your opinions are credible, and never appear to be the result of taking a position of neither a subjectivist, nor an objectivist. Near or on top of the fence is my own position too.
Interesting as it is, I can't really make any comments on the contents in this video, as I haven't yet moved into the SUT territory (yet). But there's an aspect of HiFi I'd love to hear your opinion on, namely the perceived benefits of always striving for neutral gear. See, I am of the opinion that, IF you succeed in putting together a HiFi system consisting of neutral gear, there are two clear and obvious benefits to it, one being that it's easier to swap a piece of equipment to another neutral piece without risking to exaggerate or understate a certain frequency range. The other benefit being it's my firm belief, that you cannot get any closer to the sound character of the 'original event' whatever that may be, if you are using equipment that exaggerate or understate certain frequency ranges. This thing is to me a very important property of my entire system, and I often wonder why so few audiophiles talk about this.
HiFi has been my main interest for almost 58 years, and I believe I've found the 'holy grail' in my life long quest for great, pleasant, detailed, but also non-fatiguing sound. I've been live on stage numerous times, in recording studios too, and at plenty live events, so I feel that I know the true sound of musical instruments.
Any comments pls?
Very interesting, nicely done. You’re definitely going to more trouble than most. A high end Denon integrated amp pma a100 phono stage or the ifI zen phono with Denon 301 mk2 and Nagaoka mp 200 are as far as I’ve gone. MC a little better for sure but both good. I couldn’t tell any difference in the two phono stages. Your system goes to 11. I’d like you to review the B&W 703 s3 with the decoupled tweeter and mid and almost no defracting baffle.
Thanks, my current goal is to take it as far as I can to give myself a reference benchmark for what is possible in my room to some degree so then I can scale down and know how good more affordable gear is. I feel it’s very important to go big initially to get that experience otherwise you never really know. This is all possible because it’s my job and I can get stuff to use that I would struggle to afford at this rate. I did buy the degritter though that is mine.
This was excellent. Nice one Terry.
Well record cleaning is more of a Pandoras box than the SUT, using only distilled water doesn’t help the cleaning, im saying this from personal experience, i started with the classic OkkiNokki and moved to ultrasonic, if you want to make a difference in cleaning either you dilute some L’art du son concentrate in the water you use to clean your records or you can find some recepies on internet. Im using a blend of BAC50 - Polysorbate 80 - Isopropyl alcohol and distilled water and it make a very big difference, i know is a bit of a faf having to mix and dilute but otherwise it doesn’t really matter how much money you spend on a ultrasonic record cleaning machine because is not going to make a difference if you only use distilled water. Is only a friendly advice.
I am not only using distilled water but you still need distilled water and even more when your running two tanks and a rinse cycle in your cleaning
EVERYTHING TO POINT AND CLEAR !
I very much look forward to your next video on vinyl , I love this stuff. My linn lp12 is away have lingo mk4 power supply upgrade. I decided to stay with mm adikt cartridge for now. To change to linn krystal mc cartridge and buy a SUT would be over 3 thousand pounds. I buy a lot of use vinyl records I can easily change the styles on the adikt cartridge. Vinyl cut from digital masters sound not so good. All analogue vinyl have the full vinyl magic in sound. As soon as analogue is digitised the magic is lost to some degree. When your listening Terry bear this in mind. Digital vinyl bad.
Yes..............i agree with your comment on digiatl vinyl !
Digital sucks out the magic ..even if it "can " sound impressive it's not magic !
For example I have some records ( mostly live ) that have been badly recorded with plenty of distortion.....something like The Creedence Clearwater revival /Live in Europe ...BUT woaw the feeling of the magic is in the air and the concert is there alive ...and I wished to have been at that concert ......same recording digital remasterd or on CD souinds only bad and has no soul .
I am happy to have kept all my records I bought before digital transfers and masters .........and after listening It is always difficult to go back to digital........
MC has the edge ........I can even enjoy the height of the places wher it is recorded, something like raindrops falling down or from the ceiling of a cave...
Some MM are also very good ..........and better a good MM than a lesser quality MC.
My choice is a SUT ( Mitchell Cotter MK2L ) since the seventies ......stil beats most of the newbies ....it costed me a fortune at that time , I never regret I bouight it then .
It's great that you're now enjoying your Vinyl so much with all the upgrades. But boy, it gets expensive....
Yes it does, the record themselves are crazy. I bought one album before Christmas for £75 which is insane for one album, vinyl madness ;)
Nice video, I have been using a SUT since the early 80's and never felt the need to change, it feeds an Audio Innovations Series 1000 valve phono stage, very rare but old now. I have been looking at the Michael Fiddler MC Pro which others have mentioned, this would be a great review to do and support a local UK specialist builder. I would love to know how this product compares and your thoughts, there are very few reviews on this product sadly 👍
I will reach out to them and see what they say
If you are using the SUT on the MC input you are defintely overdriving the input. The SUT is designed to increase the level and also deliver a 47k ohm resistance output which is the standard resistance of MM phono. There is an article I read where it explains how to calculate the required gain for cartridge output, I’ll post it when I find it
I explained all this and there is no overloading of the input that is in any way negative to the sound, its only positive to the sound.
Why would that be the case @sonicmainliner? Sure, depending on the ratio of the step-up transformer, it may be advisable to change the input resistor on your phonostage depending on what the suggested loading is for your cartridge. The Luxman LMC-5 in Terry's is a 4,7 Ohm cartridge and Luxman suggests a loading of 2,5-10 Ohms when used with a step-up, however, this is by no means set in stone. If it sounds fine without any loading except whatever the cartridge "sees" when the signal passes through the windings of the step-up, you don't have to do anything. The ST 80 SE has a ratio of about 1:22. I'm using a vintage step-up with a ratio of 1:10 with my Luxman LMC-5 and it sounds just fine plugged into my Leben RS30EQ phonostage with a 47k Ohm input. You might hear some changes in the sound with a different loading but it will not harm the cartridge in any way, at least in this case.
There is something really strange about the YBA phono. I looked it up and the MC input is not merely unique but does some serious juggling with specs. It states 47k on the MC input which is totally not normal. Also 50dB is ridiculously low. It's like hanging new curtains with a footstool.
The manufacturer is really tight lipped about what range of impedance it provides.
What it does say: it uses a proprietary transformer on the MC! So that means Terry daisy chained 2 transformers!? Yet it worked.
My guess is the transformer has different taps and the opamps can reduce amplification to 24dB (less sounds better, I know, I made one like this). The transformer inside is 26dB the site says. Same as the Ortofon, but at it's max.
The only way I can think of YBA does some serious tricks switching amplification between several transformer taps and opamps to keep impedance managed.
Calculating impedance with a transformer is easy if you toss aside the manufacturer mumbo jumbo about 'impedance matching'. That's just terribly confusing. Use the RATIO. Like 1:13. Square the number and devide by that amount.
Ergo 47k /13² =278 Ohm.
My guess is the YBA can make a tap for a 1:2 transformer reducing that even 4x (2²) if tethered to 45dB opamp gives 51dB +26dB for the Ortofon.
50dB for the Luxman is problematic. 77dB is pretty loud. But the tranny adds no noise. (Unlike the rainbow colored ones, which are very vocal 😊).
Yes but also the Luxman EQ500 is only 55db on its MC input that would work best for this cartridge so that is worth considering. I am questioning how important is this and what are the pros and cons to more and less gain. More gain I assume more noise - I dont know but will be looking into it when I get my hands on other phonos which will be happening this year
@@PursuitPerfectSystem I may be talking out of my backside here, but as far as I understand it, a proper loading (or improper, depending on the situation) will change the shape of the RIAA equalization curve where you will move the top end "hump" in the curve further up in the frequency response or further down. Same deal with the lower end "dip" in the frequency curve. The gain by itself is not the number to stare yourself blind at.
The YBA could handle alone the Luxman cart with great result because loading can be adjusted as low as 3 Ohms. The YBA is battery powered which is a bonus. I am surprised you needed a SUT connected into the MC inlet on the top of that. It sounds like a bit "overcharged" now. There must be impedance matching problem somewhere in the system if you still got not enough gain and punch and need a SUT to solve the problems. Lots of people got this problem BTW. Impedance matching through the whole system can be challenging if we mix-matching brands, different type circuit topologies, etc.
Maybe I didn’t need it but I think it’s clearly better with it so that is what I think is important
@@PursuitPerfectSystem yes, you are right! Your pleasure is the most important! Enjoy it Sir!
I think you need now to try a really good phono stage like the two from primare audio and pitch this against the step up transformer set. And go from there. And the winner is. Make your choice. Dam good video Terry. Spot on the money.
To go better than this phono your looking in the £3k-£10k range, others have more options and flexibility but I dont think that will make them better, just more flexible. But I will be testing some others out for sure.
@@PursuitPerfectSystem If you need to add in a transformer to get the sound your after or satisfied with surely the phono stage should be enough on its own.
Having it set to mc should be more than enough gain. No transformer is needed. Does this tell you something is miss matched.
Your cartridge mit have a low sensitivity. Or the phono stage needs changing. Your phono mc stage needs more gain.
Something like a primare stage with lots of setting is a must. A phono stage with adjustments will accommodate any cartridge.
No need to spend thousands Terry. Choose cartridge and phono stage more appropriately. Try different gear Terry. Tried and tested that match.
What's wrong with sticking with moving magnet, nagaoka mp-500 or mp-300. Spending more money does not get better sound. It's just different in sound. Choose different equipment and start again. Something with synergy.
This is the whole point of the video - maybe your missing out not using a step up, it might not be about "needing" it it might be about the benefit it brings you wouldn't get from the phono stage alone - that is what I am keen to test because some of the really nice units I have my eye on have them built in and there is a reason for that.
I will leave it with Terry. The vinyl journey continues. Ps audio make a good phono stage. Active phono stages and passive ones. Witch one will you choose. The vinyl journey has a fork in the road. Witch way you going.
Both ways Mark I dont have to draw a line in the sand, my job is to explore and report back. I will never do things the conventional way, I am awkward about everything :)
Naim made the pre-fix years ago!
I notice that the YBA PH1 has no resistance adjustments for MC inputs, it's just fixed at 47kOhm. MC carts have seriously different sounds with different resistances. I found that with my EAT eglow petite PS and a Soundsmith Zephyr MIMC* cart (and also previous Vincent PHO701). So the impedance of the SUT maybe what you hear as a good synergy with your particular cart. I would rather put my money into a better PS where I can select resistance with MC inputs rather than adding a SUT with unknown resistance. my 2c.
The YBA auto adjusts to the incoming signal rather than you having to select the correct settings.
Hi Terry, I've just discovered your channel... Love the content! So about 'looking for that next big box upgrade', how hard are you looking, or more accurately how hard are you listening? I've been treading the audiophile path for about 45 years, and there have been some stunning upgrades along the way (installing a heavy guage dedicated mians ring was the most surprising 'stellar' improvement) which really make me focus on 'what has got better?''. But am I listening too hard? A few years back I took some meditation classes, nice idea but the location was next to a very noisy road which kinda destroyed the zen. When we told the teacher that the road noise was intruding he taught us an inner silence meditation, basically imagining that the room is utterly silent and then focussing on listening to that percieved silence. It took a few sessions before I managed it, but eventually it worked, by actively listening to the silence I stopped listening to the road noise and I found the zen. I recently wondered what if I did the same while listening to music... sounds daft but what if I deliberately listen to perceived silence so that I'm not actively listening to the music. Again it took a while to find the silence, but when i did it was very revealing... previously I'd been analysing how good the soundstaging was , but as soon as I stopped analysing, the instruments just naturally placed themselves, far more precisely and with much greater separation than I'd ever achieved by trying to mentally place them. Once I'd created a mental image of a silent stage, my brain was very comfortable with placing the performers into it (it's how we naturally process ambient sound). And other analytical questions like PRAT also became redundant, it was very much a feeling of immersion in the performance, it wasn't about what made it sound so amazing, it was that it did sound so amazing. At this point you're probably wondering if I'd been smoking some dodgy substances... absolutely not. I do remember from my teens how Led Zep's Kashmir on a ghetto blaster was a profound audio nirvana experience after smoking a fat one, but I haven't touched drugs for over 30 years. Was that Led Zep moment because the dope did the same trick of letting my brain process the sound on autopilot? Probably not, if that was the case I should've clearly perceived a cheap lousy casstte player. My recent inner silence listening experiences do achieve that same level of audio nirvana, without all of the drug related disorientation, paranoia and destroyed brain cells, that have impacted my later life (kids, don't do it!). From an audiophile upgrade perspective, the great thing about this meditation suggestion is that it's absolutely free. For me it's been the best value 'upgrade step' possible. Has it cured that hungry audiphile curse? Nah, now I'm wondering if wearing an orange sheet and shaving my little remaing hair off will improve the sound quality even more? (written with total respect for Buddists, they were awesome meditation teachers)
Great video, this has inspired me to upgrade my vinyl setup, but I'm not sure where to start. Got a Uturn audio turntable, Grado Black cartridge, and a Rega fono mini phono preamp. I also have a high end London Maroon cartridge sitting on a shelf. I definitely can't get that cart to work with my Uturn, need some suggestions on turntables maybe in the $1k-$2k range that have a high mass tonearm and adjustable VTA. Any suggestions would be appreciated!
There's a button on your receiver/intergrated/pre-amp that says "loudness" it supercharge everything. Even the records.
Great video ! Do you intend to review the Xact S1 ? How does it sound compared to this supercharged vinyl ?
Looks like a fantastic set up but for me it all seems a bit complicated and dare I say expensive 🤔
I’m on the fence about buying a turntable but I would only consider something a bit more plug n play, mainly due to the fact I really don’t have time or finances to invest in some of additional components in this review. I have an humble Naim Uniti Nova digital set up and it sounds great and is so easy and convenient to use.
I started the journey with a nice plug and play and have made a number of videos about it so it can help others start theirs. I have a playlist for them or just look in my channel for my vinyl videos
Might try this Ortofon SU transformer, after trying a good MC phonostage to match my Marantz TT15S1.
Ah i thought you might have got the Degritter, when you mentioned you got a cleaning system. It's got very good reviews. How does that step up transformer work without any power? I would have thought that without power it would have a negative impact. Oh well. If it works, dont question it!
The transformer steps up the voltage(as in the national grid system but not to those sort of voltages 🙂). It’s about voltage gain in the early stages of amplification. The transformer will actually introduce an insignificant small power loss. It will also by its design increase the impedance of the cartridge to something more suitable for a phono input. Putting this into a MC input will be an impedance and voltage mismatch but if the desired effect is one you like and it works for you-great.
Funny, but I seem to have experienced some kind of "burn-in" with either the ST-80 SE, with the interconnects, or whatever the case might be during the first 3-4 weeks after I added the ST-80. The step-up and the interconnects are the only recent changes I've made.
To me its about looks.
Sound?
Its got to be good, but is it possible to detect the difference between bloody good and anything better?
Are we kidding ourselves?
Better sound in a few key areas?
What does that mean?
Maybe a difference in barometric pressure changes sound.
I.e. the weather affects the transmition of sound.
Who knows.
But all that expense and faff over something that lasts twenty minutes at best.
However I do like that step up unit from Ortofon, it being passive AND good looking.
The price?
If it was £250 maybe, but £1800?
If you're using a +26db SUT into the MC input of that Phono (+50db) for a 0.4mv cartridge, you are without question over amplifying the Luxman's output by likely 10db to 20db..
You will get a saturated "full" sound at the expense of compressed dynamics- crushed headroom.
I am now testing another phono now and maybe a little but not that much, really. You would be hard pressed to say 100% because a different phono sounds different. Especially when you change the resistance it sounds totally different in the dynamics
@@PursuitPerfectSystem
76db is objectively too high for a 0.4mv cartridge. Its an order of magnitude too loud in fact.
Did you also adjust the caryridge loading to compensate for the SUT's ratio?
The YBA does it automatically so yes as best as I could tell
Exactly.
@@tplayford2006 You can't compensate for a transformer's turns ratio. The caps are not for that purpose.
I think this is a very interesting topic, especially for someone with low-sensitivity speakers around 78-80dB (Gauder Arcona). Thank you!👍
Wait, so the gain on a phono stage should be HIGHER rather than lower!? The person who sold me mine said to keep it as low as I can tolerate it, because adding gain at that stage will add more distortion. Is that not true? Have I been missing out on the cartridge/stylus potential by keeping the gain at 40db!? You called 50 low, and I’m well below even that!
Thanks for the video! Do you apply Dirac to your system when using vinyl?
You could do of course but I have not been no
I thought step ups are used for MC cartridges as their output is low, o.xmv instead of x.omv
What turntable are you using? Thanks. Good info
The Bergmann Modi air bearing table there is a video going into detail about it
You mentioned Origin Live, whose founder you interviewed, and spoke glowingly of their products, yet you eschew their equipment.
From what I gather they are comparatively priced to your current setup.
Pure Fidelity turntables use Original Live tonearms on their 5 figure models.
Care to comment on why you didn’t choose an Origin Live setup?
I will be getting one of their tables and setups in but I had the chance to live with a high end air bearing setup from Bergmann who wouldn't jump at that chance. For me its a great way to experience something different too
To me, this is amazing. Can our ears hear the difference?
Yes. These differences are not subtle.
Ronald , you're funny .....but what are you doing here without trying it yourself ?
If you don't , don't spend the money on reproducing music .
.Added a Rothwell MCX step up and it was a worthwhile addition with Vertere PH1 phono and Gold Note Donatello Gold cartridge. Cheers.
Hi - you don't mention anything about "loading" the cart? Looks like it's hard set to 47K which is the MM standard.
I knew there would be something to miss and learn from
Yea proper loading will make a big improvement. Looks like Luxmen recommends 40 ohms. Does the YBA have an adjustment? If not try the cart with a phono pre that does both proper gain (60db or so) and can load down to 40 ohms (which is really low). Even if it does the step up transformer is set for a MM (47k - 10x to high) so I'd skip the step up transformer. It might then beat your digital set up.
I will be looking at some other phono stages for sure, but next is a different cart Ortofon Cadenza bronze which is ideal for the Step up
Sounds good - great channel by the way!
This video is proof that the audiophile claws have certainly gained purchase on your wallet. Best wishes that you have the self control to stop slightly before you exceed your means and/or piss off family members. The land of diminishing returns are just around the corner my friend. Push the envelope as hard as you can until the resistance says stop pushing. Good luck identifying that point in your journey.😊
This is my job so I have spent much more money on buying records than buying the equipment, I also know the law of diminishing returns doesn't exist, thats the excuse people use when they hit a limit somewhere in the their room and system and haven't worked out what it is yet. There is of course a limit to sound quality but I can never hit it in my small room
@PursuitPerfectSystem cool, investing in quality source material is has a big ROI in my opinion. My experience has been that focusing on system synergy is more satisfying than upgrading. Once you have a completely synergistic rig, you can reach a wow moment where you don't want further change. Done right, this momment happens WAY cheaper than not done right. Mileage and wallets vary of course. Just saying that with a trained ear and decent tweeking skills, you can reach the point of satisfaction and demishing returns at a lower price point than those lacking the killer source material, listening skills and ability to make adjustments to satisfy their quest. I have seen friends s spend countless money and time in pursuit of what could have been obtained far cheaper with achieving synergy through room treatment, component matching, proper power, and matched cable choices. Ears are like opinions.......
Back about 76/77 I heard my first direct to disc albums - The recording went directly to a master disc and only 100,000 were made. The sound quality was like magic. No clicks and pops and the dynamic range was spectator for the day as was any background noise. Back then there was a click and pop digital device that went a long way in doing a great job. Can't remember the company name now and it was far from cheap. Just checked and today $1250 CAN based in the bank of Canada's inflation calculator.
Transsformers do not aplified the signal, they just inreas or decreas the voltage. That not equal to amplification. If you use step up transformer you increas voltage bnad reduce current. The only reason to use transformer is to make proper match to your cartig. Transformers have own frequency limitation (it is difficult to make wide band transformer).
All true but not relevant. The bandwidth of this transformer is very wide (2-100k). That's why it is so expensive. It IS well made.
A transformer does exactly what the name says: it transforms energy. But since most amplifiers need Voltage to amplify, swapping I for V is the ideal trade.
'matching' the impedance is just the mathematical consequence of this I to V trade.
To get a better vinyl sound. Forget most of what you believe and bought.
Be in a good mood and expect nothing from the vinyl. The results are amazing and cost nothing.
I added a supercharger to my turntable, the fan noise was unfortunately intrusive.
Sorry I think you misread the title Supercharger has an "R" at the end...
What is this Intro music?
Thinking about significant digits... I really wonder whether the cutting stylus wouldn't naturally have MUCH MORE mass than the cartridge you are reproducing the record with. If so, the record is cut on a lathe that drives like a dump-truck, and you are swapping out the Jaguar for an MG. Again, in terms of resolution, the MC must be orders of magnitude beyond significance.
Thanks!
Thank you, very kind of you
What about concrete records, stainless steel? Vinyl is what records, albums are made of.
I have vinyl in the kitchen and in the bathroom but it doesn't sound that good
I bet its slippery when wet also
Oh please.
Quite a grumpy comment
Never put down a record on a turntable that is already spinning😢
I think it’s ok, otherwise the time it takes to start and stop the heavy platter is untenable. I think this way makes more sense as every time you start the platter you put the maximum exertion on the belt and that is not good in the long run
Unless you have a slipmat, felt mat on the platter. Linn owners do it all the time.
That said: I really dislike felt mats. They cling to your vinyl (static) and the sound is robbed of dynamics and bass.
I rather use no mat on a delrin/perspex/alu platter. Or a perspex platter, or the Funk Firm achromat.
I do stop the platter, clamp down the lp, then give it a last swirl to jumpstart the platter and then start the motor. From 0-33rpm in 1 second. 😂
It sounds supercharged because you have too much gain by running the transformer into the MC input. That's why you are hearing more surface noise and other detritus, too much gain. It's like having a graphic equalizer and turning all of the bands way up, you may like it for awhile but eventually you get tired of it.
If that is the cause , then fine I don't mind, to be honest I don't get tired of exciting sound I get very bored and restless with dull sound and vinyl can sound very dull, thin lacking drama and dynamics if your not careful and that is not a sound I am looking for. I dont listen to records from the 50s I listen to modern music and maybe that is why.
If your system is suppressing vinyl noise and nasties its suppressing other things too, I am sure there is a balance to be had but still I am sure its true.
50 dB of gain that's ridiculous not supposing you're having trouble, what is this signal to noise ratio this phono stage? You should really check out the (MC Pro classic audio) you have a maximum of 73 DB and a staggering 81.5db snr
Andremarkably priced way below what it should be. You should definitely get one in I'm sure he will lend you one or buy one you don't need anything else than this it's the holy grail. Did you work out what was causing your hum did it help disconnecting the pump?
Another thing don't ground the phono stage this will cause you problems with hum instead take the ground wire to the amplifier chassis. Binding nut.
Anyway go support that English guy and get that phono stage you won't regret it.
Yeah I did a bit more testing with the grounding and tested what was what, connecting the amp to the preamp was the missing link I think and connecting to the mains made things worse.
That was an important test as it showed me if there was already a good path to ground and there was. The yba spec is a little confusing there are 2 gain levels mentioned. 26db and then 45/50 so there is potentially more but I don’t think that would change the result as I was listening at the same volume even with the step up in the system.
I am pretty sure just having high gain is not the answer because it’s how the gain is achieved that will matter more but this is just my theory at the moment
@@PursuitPerfectSystem you need high gain for an MC low output only if it's an MC high gain output then not so much.
When you said you connected the preamp ?? to the amp what do you mean by that? Are you talking about the phono stage? Yes if the phono stage wasn't connected to the amp that makes sense but you don't need to connect it to the phono stage anyway just connect it directly to the amp from the turntable. doing the same thing as connecting to the phonostage and then to the amp, but you really want to bypass that circuit to the phonostage.
have a look at,,Rothwell,,lots of information about step up transformers good read, and different types of winding for different types of cartridges, and they give you a chart, reasonable about 250 to about 500 and they use a Swiss transformer the same asOrton,.uses.
Check the MC Pro you won'tregretit,and it is xlr out. and it's got a really good feature a low frequency cross talk cancellation about -23 DB you don't see this very really, this give you better bass and stop bass cancellation the same as direct live in a switch. Even a higher base frequencies will work better less work for the speakers and room reflection. it has a lower grain setting of 63 DB so that's more suitable for step up transformers. What is the winding ratio of the one you've got from Orton? See what the cartridge manufacturer recommend probably 1 to 10 ratio at 100 ohms give you a flat square wave. Don't worry about resistance or impedance just concentrate on voltage output try and get it through calculation at 0.5 volts when you take in the factor of the voltage of the cartridge and the step up transformers ratio that's what you're looking at for the phono stage .5
I meant connecting the ground between the pre and power, the pre is passive so I didn't think it would matter but it did for some reason so that was getting the noise floor down so low I could hit max volume then all you can hear is what the cartridge picks up from airbourne vibration - which is pretty mental. I know that is a very big positive of this phono stage, its very clean coming off battery.
Also the Luxman EQ500 which you would assume is perfect for this Luxman cartridge only has 55db of gain for its MC high and high being 0.4mV so its not crazy to only have 50db, I only just found that out myself. I was not expecting that
I have the mc pro classic audio and I love it👍
I would get one but I seem to be lacking the eleven thousand pounds required.
I just dislike how Vinyl is noisy and difficult to digitally clean up,
Lets not forget that for a very long time vinyl has been cut and pressed from magnetic master tapes which in my opinion makes Vinyl inferior to wide reel to reel tape but of course reel to reel has never been easily and widely available to most music enjoyers (Including Myself),
By the 90s there was a huge decline in vinyl in favour of cassette and CD thanks to their compact and portable nature and at the same time there also began remastering essentially tweaking or cleaning up how a song or album sounds removing the classic sound of a song or adding gimmicky stereo effects for bands which had specific tapes for each instrument and vocals, although it was known for there to occasionally be re-recordings or remixing in the 70s and 80s,
By the 2010s Vinyl Resurgence began and vinyl was being cut and pressed from remastered digital files losing the original mixing of the song or albums which to me loses the nostalgic sound and appeal of vinyl,
There's no doubt that vinyl with a decent turntable will have a better frequency response than cassette but vinyl is infinitely more difficult / time consuming or simply not possible to digitally clean up due to the pops, cracks, clicks, noise and rumble than it is to digitally remove hiss from an undamaged unrotted cassette digitised with a decent high quality deck,
The only reason to favour vinyl over CDs is because of original pressings which contain the original and nostalgic mixing of a song or album rather than modern "Remixes" or "Remasters",
In my opinion buying newly pressed vinyl from a modern cut disc is a massive gimmick and you gain nothing over CD other than noise, Its debated that CD sounds worse than vinyl due to compression and if this "is" true it would be like having slightly worn tyres on a car then paying triple or more the cost and getting tyres which are worn in a different way.
I don't use step ups with my MC....... I prefer the loss of gain v the preferment in sound I kid u step up lovers not
Philistine
?
A lot of work and money for what? A much better sound than digital? I don’t think 🤔 so. Just a waste of money for ‘normal’ people with a normal income, in my opinion. Although, when I see the new Denon direct drive turntable, I want to have it!
Digital costs you just as much money if you want seriously good performance, why can’t people enjoy both I do
@@PursuitPerfectSystemI can, but common sense tells me, it’s just not worth it, if you have a good digital system already. And by the way: I like to play my music randomly. And most vinyl recordings are having a digital base.
I listen to digital like that too, building my own playlists etc. vinyl makes you look at music differently because you can’t do that :)
@@PursuitPerfectSystem That’s true and it’s old school listening which gives a special atmosphere. Anyhow, thanks 🙏 for your great channel and reviews, I love to watch!
What the hell are "VINLY RECORDS"?
2500+ viewers + me and your the only one who spotted that cheers
£2k for a vinyl cleaner and you “think” you’ve got a better sound?
I don’t care how much one needs to spend on a record cleaner but dirty records aren't even worth playing.
Lol you paid 1500 pounds for 2 transformers. Insane.
I am a professional audio reviewer, I tell you what £1500 for two transformers sounds like so it might help you decide if it’s worth testing for yourself. But I agree it seems like a lot for what it is but maybe not for what it does and there is obviously a difference there
Spending thousands trying to get close to the perfection of digital which can cost a lot less? Reverse logic if you ask me.
The digital gear I am comparing to costs more than the TT setup
What 'perfection'? Do you mean 'perfect sound forever'(TM)-Sony? Or perhaps the corporate compression and clipping that is done to everything released after 1992?
People prefer vinyl, mostly older vinyl, because the clipping and compression weren't applied to the music back then. The music sounds alive and exciting.
Personally, I digitized all my vinyl at 2496, and eliminated the pops and clicks and rumble manually. I now get the best of both worlds - no compression and clipping, hi-fi sound, and no vinyl noises. Of course, it has taken several decades of work, but hey...
Being 'digital' does NOT, in any sense of the word, mean "perfection". There's a lot more to consider in order to approach perfection.
Lp sucks😅