There's also a variation in pin lengths- the ground pin is the longest so it's first to connect and last to disconnect (for obvious reasons). Then the main power pins. Then the proximity and control pilot pins are the shortest, so they are the first to disconnect. This is a redundant protection so if there was a failure with the button or some form of forceful disconnect, the car could have a few milliseconds to try to drop the current when those control pins disconnect before the power pins lose connection.
A bit like a USB connecter, where the power lines are extending a tiny bit further outward than the data lines. Gives time to power up and initialise things before the data starts to flow. :)
Dealt with this guy before, very knowledgeable, fair, and one of the best out there. thanks again, the only problem he is super busy. understandable too. take care.
Thanks! This is really interesting. So Volkswagen CEO Herbert D. Drives one of his models ID3 to Italy. Then he wished he had a Tesla as he faced delays and faulty chargers. Now his PR makes the board to vote on his confidence!
Ay 6:25, When charging, the only individual voltage the charge port pins will see i think, is the difference between the CC-CV from the supercharger and the Battery voltage, which mean a maximum of 132Vdc if the battery would be dead at 3.0V/cell and the charger would boffer in the CV state a 4.2V/cell(470Vdc), unless the charger CV state is programmed to push voltage just enough to match the SOC+ a given additional voltage and so bring only lower voltage difference between charging voltage and the battery voltage... like 10-20Vdc diff just to compensate for the cable and connector loss, internal resistance etc... so the arc might not be a 470Vdc arc i guess?
Yeah, In the US, we don't have detachable cables (which is silly). This is why I gave the disclaimer up front I was going to be mainly discussing the US version. This is also how Tesla tells the difference between a supercharger and CCS.
@@Ingineerix I think that you are blessed with fixed cable connection (no sockets on wallboxes). The only reason of having AC Type-2 sockets on walboxes in the EU was to be able to charge older imported vehicles with Type-1. But for common user with new vehicle with Type-2 socket is this only pain in the ass.
@@44Bigs Are EV cable thieves a real problem? I don't know much about this type of business, but to steal an AC cable up to 5 m long, where the cross-section of the wires is 5x6 mm2. And then you have to remove the clean Cu wires from the cable, ie either mechanically remove the two layers of insulation or burn it. Is it worth? In my country it seems still to be more practical to steal wires without insulation in much longer lengths in one place, typically on the rail.
I’d like to know that too. My guess is that pressing the button sends a signal to a coil/antenna in the handle that is detected by the inductive sensor he mentions about 5 minutes into the video. Seems like the simplest way to do it.
The handle sends a 315MHZ (or 455MHZ in EU) RF signal to a small receiver in the CP ECU. They use this RF/MCU to send: www.silabs.com/documents/public/data-sheets/Si4010.pdf
@@Ingineerix What old Teslas use is CCS-Mid, which was kicked out of the standard after Tesla began using it. So it's not actually a "Tesla standard" aside from the communication protocol they use for the superchargers.
@@HenryLoenwind cheers for the info. As an owner of a Euro style (actually Australian car in NZ) Model S I think the Type 2 DC solution is much neater. Probably can't handle as much current as CCS-2 but it can do 120kW which is enough for me for now :)
@@Ingineerix more precisely it's like that on all EU Model S and X cars. Even the new ones. Model 3 and Y use regular Type2/CCS connectors and thus CHAdeMO adapter for MS and MX doesn't work with them. There is a CCS adapter for MS and MX.
Things get slightly more complicated with European Teslas Model S+X (2012-2021) with an Type2 inlet, running DC mid or AC 3-phase. There, you need four contactors (instead of two) to either connect 4 pins to either 2x DC+ and 2x DC (DC charging) or connecting them to L1, L2, L3 and Neutral (3-phase AC charging). CCS gets rid of them: the DC lines go to the battery contactors, the AC lines to the onbord charger.
Thank you one of the simplest explanation. Is there a site or link you have or can point on the supercharger CAN/SWCAN protocol that Tesla uses. I'm trying to implement it to see if I can close the contactors on the EV side. Any pointers or help is appreciated. I have been able to do it with other cars that use PLC/GreenPHY as CCS uses ISO15118/DIN70121 (also going to try with newer Teslas that use NACS/PLC) but older ones that have SWCAN - I am not able to due to the closed nature of the handshaking/protocol Tesla uses. I am not sure if anyone has reverse engg it.
Tesla could modify the charger located on the PCS board to make it two way but they could also sell a Tesla external inverter or a Wall Connector/inverter (similar to the one Ford uses with the Lighting) that I think would only require firmware changes. Then both the vehicle owners and Tesla could make money in a VPP program and help out the grid. An external inverter could also handle power spikes of more than 11KW. I would not mind if Tesla also made a small amount for each KW cycled through the HV battery (to recover any wear and tear) if it would get them to allow such use. I recently purchased a Tesla with a LFP traction battery which should last at least 300K miles even if used as stationary storage. Just finished watching the video were you mentioned this very topic. Thanks for your great vids!
They "could", yes, but the cost to make and install such as system would probably be around $8k. Who would pay for that? (Essentially all the same hardware as a grid-tied solar system, but without the solar panels)
10:03 In the UK (likely all EU), many older Teslas have CCS upgrades (including my 2018 Model S). They literally change that module and give you an adapter! 😂 Costs £200, so pretty reasonable. And then supports faster charging.
This site is the best I’ve experienced. Would you do a video on the Plaid rear camber and toe arms? Are they adjustable? I’m concerned about rear tire wear.
Another great video @Ingineerix, thank you. You seem to be enjoying this hobby, I hope you keep enjoying it and we keep getting to enjoy learning from you!
Would it be possible to export power from the Tesla battery with the CHAdeMO adapter? I believe CHAdeMO is bidirectional, I wonder if Tesla implemented that capability.
@@Ingineerix oh interesting. Isnt there any other company besides Tesla that builds DC chargers for Tesla EVs? Do you know if there open communication protocols for other standarts? (CCS1/2 Chademo, etc)
@@JRabba1995 As far as I know, nobody. Tesla has not released the SWCAN "Supercharger protocol" to anyone. I have reverse-engineered it somewhat out of curiosity. However, Any Tesla since 2021 also speaks "CCS" (ISO15118) so a DCFC manufacturer could just put a NACS "whip" on an existing CCS charger and it would work with all 2021+ Teslas or any Tesla that has had the PLC retrofit. Going forward this is how all 3rd party OEMs will work on the supercharger network. Tesla could not release the SWCAN protocol to 3rd party OEMs as there is no real authentication mechanism, the car controls auth. This is fine on all Tesla cars on Tesla DCFCs, but not workable on other OEM fleets.
In China, Tesla also adopted early to the GB/T standards (that required one AC inlet and one DC inlet on Teslas), giving up their own Tesla proprietary connector.
Good video, good explanation… thank you! Do you have an idea where an AC optocoupler (bi-directional input) could be used in such an application? Thank you in advance
@@Ingineerix What do you think about his (Winter Tashlin from Transport Evolved) opinion on CCS for Tesla in the USA? See TH-cam: "Is Tesla About to Change How Charging Works in North America?", Nov 6th 2021
Regarding the CCS Type 1 to US Tesla adapter - while the actuator in the Tesla charge port could lock the adapter to the inlet, what is it, that would lock the CCS plug to the CCS adapter? So in the US-Tesla-to-CCS adapter there must be another locking actuator, this means a PCB and small electric motor. Even if PLC is handled on the PCB in the car, the adapter cannot be completely simple and dumb.
I’m not certain because I haven’t seen the new Type 1 CCS adapter in person yet, but it’s my impression that there is a mechanical “finger” that is compressed when you insert the adapter into the car and this mechanically latches the adapter onto the CCS plug while the adapter is inserted into the Tesla receptacle on the car. Thus, the adapter remains passive.
@@jeffnisewanger8260 After your comment I looked at the European version. I found a good explanation here: th-cam.com/video/cI1_mG1FuNo/w-d-xo.html There is a mechanism as you say: two mechnical claws at the sides are mechanically latched from the adapter into the CCS plug as soon as the CCS adapter is plugged into the Tesla vehicle inlet. I could not think of such a mechanical solution and take the blame.
Can I ask you, what king of EVSE did you show on the video? Orange one, I never seen such. I cut open few of them to modify and repair them, but never seen an orange ones. As far as I know, when Tesla was been using gen2 chargers on the supercharger, logic board was been different, but power electronics was been the same in OBC and in supercharger one. This is interesting what they are start to use qca7005 inside of the charge port controller on us market.
It's got a secure bootloader. It would be a lot of work to get around this, and they'd have to connect to YOUR charge cord to do anything, and it would really be limited to just breaking the unit, as it can't do anything really "bad". To be clear: It won't work the other way, something on the charge side cannot push firmware into the car only the obverse.
Elon said the cars are going to support 300kw soon, did they have to make changes to the connector for this? Assuming they will also need to upgrade the chargers?
That likely will come from the 110s in 2022 Model S/X battery packs instead of 96s (former S and X, 3+Y). This is an 15% increase in voltage. 250 kW peak * 1.15 = 287 kW peak. Round up in an optimistic fashion => 300 kW. It will likely apply to 2022 Model S and X only. Tesla then will need to take care, that the Tesla chargers can actually provide up to 110s times 4.2 V = about 462 Volts plus a little bit, so 500 V DC. So far, they were capped at around 410 Volts.
Thanks for this detailed video. My mobile charger gen 2 is making 6 flash lights when I plug it into the car (green light when it’s not connected to the car). Got error message CP_a004, CP_a103 and CP_a099 on the screen while it’s connected. And the car asks confirmation that no cable is connected before to start running, like if it is not able to detect if a cable is connected or not. Do you believe the issue comes from the mobile charger and it need to be changed?
6 flashes on a Gen 2 means incorrect Pilot levels. CP_a004 is Proximity Rationality, CP_a103 is Proximity Ground Bad, and CP_a099 is Cable State unknown. If you charge on another connector and it works without error, yeah, it's your cable. Otherwise it could also be something in the car's charge port. If your cable is worn, it could have experienced broken conductors in the cable, this happens often when people don't know how to wrap cables correctly (no twist).
CCS has that locking pin too. It failed on my BMW i3 and I couldn’t DC fast charge. As a safety measure, the charger needs confirmation that the connector is locked. It doesn’t care with AC charging.
@@Ingineerix More subtly, it requires that the charge controller be functional. The on-board charge controller must command the shut off of charge current, monitor that current flow has stopped, open the contactor, and verify that it has opened before it commands the connector lock to disengage. A crashed controller or other fault will not release the connector, avoiding arcs and live contacts. That's why A/C charging can use an external mechanical pawl latch, but DCFC requires an internal electrically actuated lock pin.
Would love to have seen something about the RF connection and antenna for the charge handle button receiver. Mine had an intermittent reception. Question is why? Tesla fixed it by disconnecting and connecting again. But didn’t want to do myself due to warranty.
I've answered this now a bunch of times: The handle sends a 315MHZ (or 455MHZ in EU) RF signal to a small receiver in the CP ECU. They use this RF/MCU to send: www.silabs.com/documents/public/data-sheets/Si4010.pdf
Communication protocol did came over from 90s, with cars as a gm ev1, Ford ranger electric, Toyota rav4ev(1gen), Honda city and other was been a thing. Most of them(lead-acid and ni-cd, ni-mh packs was been a main choice and they are require ventilation).
There's a Proximity (or Proximity Detection) and a Control Pilot. "Proximity Pilot" is generally a misused term in the US, Proximity Pilot is used for the type 2 standard in Europe where they have removable cables. Charging must be limited to the lesser of 1) Charger's max output, 2) Vehicle's max input, or 3) Cable's ampacity rating. Proximity Pilot is the signal the removable cable uses to tell the EVSE what cable rating is plugged in. It uses the same "pin" but on the "other side" of the cable - remember Proximity Detection at the vehicle doesn't leave the handle, it's not connected to the wire in the charging cable. Proximity Pilot has nothing to do with Proximity Detection on the vehicle side. But people in North America hear "Proximity Pilot" and just assume it's synonymous with Proximity Detection.
Hey Phil - simply fantastic! I'm a dangerously incompetent tinkerer and electric motorcycle owner. Can i ask a really dumb question? My Harley Livewire comes with an AC charger cable. It is single phase to allow me to charge from any 240V outlet, has a big chunky box and a lead and Mennekes style plug to plug into the AC input in the bike. However, 240V outlets aren't always available but AC charge stations generally are, but i can only use them if i carry another lead with male/female mennekes plugs, which is a total pain on a bike. My question is, is there a way to make a simple adapter that i can plug into an AC charge station and my standard lead (with 240V plug) that will feed the right signals to to the charge station and bike to work?? Surely there must be a way ? PS i donated $50 to help your efforts and for your time to answer my dumb question.
Yeah, in the US, we don't have detachable cable sets on public charge stations. Sadly, there is no easy way to do what you suggest, but you should be able to take an existing mennekes cable and shorten it and maybe even make replacement handles that are smaller/lighter. Thanks for the support!
How hard is it to modify a Model 3 with US-plug to CCS2 (what components need to be replaced) ? Asking from Taiwan where we suffered a plug change. Older cars were US-plug, newer ones are CCS2. No retrofit available (yet?).
@Ingineerix now that Tesla have opened up their network to other vehicle manufacturers at least in Europe CCS2 and AUS CCS2, why do some brands of cars not negotiate with Tesla to accept a charge?
Well, if you read up on CCS (DIN 70121) signalling, it's incredibly over-complex, clearly designed by a committee, and if everything isn't perfectly implemented , it can fail to perform properly. Here in the US, Tesla has opened only to certain manufacturers, and they validate that upon connection, so currently unapproved EVs don't charge. If it's not an intentional block, then it could be just an edge-case and someone has some testing and bug-fixing to do, could be either Tesla or the EV manufacturer, or even a 3rd party supplier that the EV manufacturer used. This could take a lot of time, and some EVs do not enjoy OTA updates, so it may require a trip to the dealership to get an update if that's where the problem lies. If it's on Tesla's side, this may take a long time to resolve as Elon famously fired everyone in the supercharging team. I know he hired back some of them, but it's still probably pretty messy over there.
It's still gonna be pricey. Chademo is available, but about 5k$. 10kw if I remember correctly. Difference is only on the logic side between V2X chademo and ccs. I can't wait for a lighting, cheapest way to implement V2X via ccs is gonna be to integrate it into OBC, and got a AC out of car with modified EVSE what can do so. It can be also deeply integrated into a smart grid using GreenPHY protocol what ccs and your power meter in your home uses.
Yes, that means there is likely a loose ground connection to the charge port, or (less likely) a bad pin module in the charge port connector. The loose ground is not uncommon. It's a large green wire on the driver side located under the rear seat cushion that is attached to the body with an M6 fastener.
The automotive grade PowerPC chip, do you know what nanometer that silicon is? Is that an old design like the fabs want to stop having to make for cars, or is it a newer design that they are happy to invest in more capacity?
google SPC5 32-bit Automotive MCUs, those are 40nm. It's design for 15years and the new SPC56 family for 20years. So don't think they will switch anytime soon.
@@Ingineerix re-reading my comment, it sounded harsh. I was just making a comment on the precharge circuit missing from a charging video. Great content as always. Love seeing these. Now, how awesome would it be to get a hold of a V3 supercharger module
Yes exactly correct, the charge communication box is replaced/inserted at about 150€ for cars made before 2019. Then after that time all cars need the adapter which can do 150kW in addition for about 150€ as well. The prices might be a bit off, but Tesla fully supports the upgrades and do them off-site.
Can you compare the wire size for the plaid and the model 3? Do you think the plaid will support higher supercharging currents in the future? It seems the batteries should take more. The 3/Y charges at 250 kW / 80 kwhr = 3.12C. That should indicate the new S should be able to do 312 kW, if the chemistry and cooling are similar. Plus, the battery voltage is higher, so lower charging cable current for the same kW....
@@Ingineerix Interesting! I'm interested to see how fast the Plaid can charge once we get v4 superchargers! The model 3 manages 250 kW, with only a 96S battery and 80 kwhr. The Plaid is 110S, so at 250 kW, it's pulling 13% less current already. So, if the current was the limit, the plaid should easily be able to charge 13% more than 250 kW. If the cells are the limit, then with a 25% larger battery, it should be able to do 25% kW, or 312 kW.
@@jonathanviventi1380 I haven't yet seen a V4 supercharger. Yes, if the limit is current, the pack will be able to charge a bit faster. I suspect that the Plaid's better cooling would allow even more, but right now seems the supercharger is the limit, so no point in speculating.
Old Model S and X can upgrade to suppot CCS in Europe. They change the small, white charge controller in the car, and give you an adapter similar to the US J1772 adapter with Combo2 input and Type2 output. Adapter is a passive adapter only passing electricity thru it. Model S and X used only the AC-part of the Type2 plug. Even for Supercharging.
If the adapter was completely passive only, it could not contain an electric locking mechanism to lock the CCS plug to the adapter. This would be dangerous due to arcing, if someone just pulled out the CCS plug from the adapter during charging.
Is there a way to check if your car will need the PCB replacement in order for the upcoming CCS adapter to work? Also, can't this chip be internal of the adapter, so that it works with older Model 3's?
Tesla has plenty of time, as new Model S and X for Europe are moved to end of 2022. See Teslamag: "Zwei Jahre ohne Premium-Teslas: Model S und Model X für Europa erst Ende 2022 wieder".
Regarding the J1772 adapter - that is not locked, right? While the actuator in the Tesla charge port could lock the adapter, nothing locks the actual J1772 connector to the adapter. This means, anyone could unplug that.
How does tesla authenticate supercharging with the vehicle vin? I assume through can it looks up the vin number then Tesla remotely authorizes that the vehicle is eligible for supercharging (free, paid etc)
I HAVE A 2013 TESLA S and when I attach my GEN 1 charger the light is green and after I plug it to the car port the green and the charger lights starts a green sequential flashing. Within 30 seconds the charging port goes to a solid red and the charger still glows green but it stops the sequential flashing . the dash panel said check charging cable. I opened notifications and it showed CHG_007 AND CHG_012. I then used a public charger and my J adapter and with 30 seconds the car port glowed a steady red. I am able to still use a TESLA charging station to recharge. Please help me with this issue
I wonder if this supercharger protocol is used in Europe at all, as the type 2 (non CCS) DC charging used with the model X and Y is part of the IEC standard as well. I would assume for CCS cars the v3 superchargers have always used CCS protocol in Europe, just like they do for non-Tesla cars in the pilot that is now going on.
Yes, in Europe the Supercharger protocol is used by Tesla S+X with Type2 (non CCS). It is also used by 3+Y on CCS on a supercharger. You can tell from the fact, that Teslas transmit information on authentication to the Supercharger enabling Tesla-proprietary plug and play without apps or RFID cards. Also the vehicle receives information from the Supercharger. In contrast, in the 10 Supercharger sites in NL, where the field test now got started, all non-Tesla customer must use the Tesla App, authenticate, agree on pricing and fees, select a stall and start charging from there. So, obviously Tesla did not yet implement "Plug and Charge" according to ISO 15118.
@@koeniglicher right, I forgot the V2 SuC needs a way to identify the car as well. Then it makes sense that Tesla uses their own protocol across the board.
@@koeniglicher There was a time last year when suddenly all non-Tesla CCS-EVs could charge at superchargers in Europe. Seems they rolled out the software update for the superchargers to speak CCS and forgot to put a dummy ("always no") authentication module in. It's a bit of a facepalm now that nobody noticed at that time that superchargers weren't supposed to be able to "speak" CCS at all. That was a big hint at Tesla preparing to open the network...
It's my understanding that the Tesla connector came about because when the Model S was being designed Tesla asked the J1772 SAE committee in 2010 what the physical configuration of the J1772 Plug/inlet was going to be so that they could put it in the S. The committee, not wanting this car company upstart to have the physical dimensions, said that it had not been finalized yet. They basically lied to Tesla since Yazaki already had the drawings and was making tools for it. Tesla also designed their Plug/Inlet to be capable of the full 80A that the J1772 Spec called for using a totally different kind of electrical pin, which is more like the Type 2 pin.
Tesla offered SAE that they could all use the Tesla connector design free of charge. GM and Ford refused on basis of NIH egos. Such a shame that now we are stuck with the inelegant CCS design.
How do you think they will fit a ccs port on the new model s and x cars for Europe do you think they will take the model 3 back light with charge port or do you think they will stick with the modified type 2 port?
Hi, We brought our 2021 Model 3 LR four times to Tesla Technician they replaced the charger port and this still doesn’t fix the problem on this 3000 miles vehicle. Everything works and charges just fine, but we kept getting the error on the screen that beeps. The error message while we are driving says “unable to charge, disconnect and retry”. and “unable to charge - service is required , charge port is not detected “. Anyway just made another appointment for service again. Wondering if you have any idea how this can be resolved? I have rebooted the car and still not resolved. Thanks!
Sounds like a bad ground, or bad CP ECU. Next time it acts up get the alert codes and I can give you a better diagnosis. (They will be visible under the car tab, then [Service], and [Notifications].
Tesla connecter was designed by engineers with the best ideas used, CCS was designed by a marketing department whose goal was to discourage EV adoption.
Not true, Leo. CCS was designed to be capable up to 500A and 1000 V DC, 400 kW to support charging busses and trucks. The proprietary US Tesla connector will likely show its DC limits with charging Tesla Roadster II and Tesla Cybertruck.
@@koeniglicher Would it not have been better to design a proper heavy duty connecter for busses and trucks since they will not be using the same charging network?
koeniglicher The Tesla connector only need to switch out power relays to support higher Amps and higher Voltage. The connector are just metal and plastics the electronics behind them is what regulate the charging power.
@@kazedcat Metal and plastics is important. Metal pins need a higher diameter for higher amperage so that they do not overheat. Plastics needs certain distances to still isolate from higher voltages. Just think of why a CCS socket or the Tesla connector look different than a NEMA 5-15 or European Type F or Type G household plug. They are also just "metal and plastics". And a USB connector is also just "metal and plastics", but for way lower amps and voltage.
My Wallcharger was having a problem for a time that it would not charge. I would get an error message that the lock to hold the cable in place was not working. The problem was intermittent. At first I would turn off power to the charger, wait a few minutes and turn the power back on. Sometimes I would have to lower cycle several times before I could charge my car I turned off the power to the charger and took off the putter cover, one security torx on the bottom. The inner cover has several security torx fasteners holding it in place. You may have to pry this cover off. Be careful as there is a cable that connects to the lights you see on the outside of the unit. At this point you can see we’re the power wires come in at the bottom. There are also 4 small wires that carry the communication signals to the charger. As mentioned they are the PP wires as well as 2 ground wires. They have crimped on terminals at the end of the wires and screw into a connector fastened to the circuit board that is inside the unit. Since I could hear the lock engage and disengage I assumed a signal was not reaching the car from the charger. I could also move the lock manually from inside the trunk. I removed and cleaned the 4 small wires and the charger worked for a time but would fail again after a couple of uses. I tinned the crimped on connectors with a thin coating of solder. This seems to have fixed the problem. Hope this helps anyone else who has this problem.
I have a 2018 model 3, so I more than likely don’t have the PLC modem in my charge port ECU to support CCS charging. Once the Tesla CCS adapter gets released to the US market, would it be as simple as swapping in a more recent charge port ECU that has the PLC modem so that I could do CCS charging via the adapter? As in a drop in ECU replacement?
Thanks Rui, I appreciate that! If you are feeling generous, you can also support my channel! There is a link at the bottom of my channel's "about" page: th-cam.com/users/Ingineerixabout
WTF! / LOL @ 8:05 - There's a *mechanical* relay in the charge port ECU? With all of this amazing, cutting-edge technology that Tesla has developed there's still an 1800's-era piece of technology? Why not a more reliable MOSFET? Great series - thank you so much for these excellent, in-depth videos!
Cost / Reliability. They could have used an Analog multiplexer or pair of solid state relays, but since the input to this relay is a pin in the charge port, it's going to be subject to a lot of electrical abuse. I think a relay was a good choice.
In Tesla it was been only two tilypes of connectors: one what was been used on roadster and afterwards Tesla start using existing connector on S in 2011 if I recall it correctly.
The charge port door on the model x does not have a magnet in it ..it has the push button ..and it seems super buggy is that firmware issue ? The charge ecu on the Model x looks similar but it’s different
@@Ingineerix tesla has come out 5 times to fix they replaced the charge port door and the charge port ..the lights on charge ecu are always flashing 2 red leds ..it never gets the slow one led ..the charge port closes and opens fine but it doesn’t on the screen or the app .it says door sensor error ..tesla can’t fix it
@@Ingineerix no wonder Elon shutdown line it’s because of firmware and communication errors on the model x ..the 2020 is just super buggy ok everything
I've heard that 3 and Y charge ports since late 2020 is heated, but do you know what part of the port that is? If it is the hatch itself or the locking pin inside
I don’t have any actual knowledge on car electronics other than what I’ve gathered from watching youtube videos. Yet I won’t hesitate to share my thoughts. There are multiple CAN buses in a vehicle and the one exposed here is probably pretty limited in scope. Let’s hope someone with actual knowledge comes by to correct this or, unlikely, feed my ego by confirming this statement.
The charging communication is a point-to-point connection. It doesn't connect to any other bus on the car, and the controller does not bridge (i.e. forward) frames. It's worth noting that Tesla A/C EVSE "charger" (a UMC or wall connector) will almost always end up communicating over CAN with a Tesla vehicle. A Tesla charger will fall back to using the J1772 PWM signalling if it fails to communicate. A Tesla vehicle will charge using J1772 signal if that's all it detects. So it is possible that a detection failure will result in a J1772 PWM charging session, but that is the vanishly rare exception.
Someone on TH-cam pushed a button to simulate the charge port closed and the car started charging from a solar generator in the trunk while driving. Is this actually possible, or was the video a hoax?
I heard you say that V2H won't happen because it's not easy or inexpensive but a power wall is what $7K? And it has ~1/10 the capacity of my Model 3 battery that I already paid for. So is it really just that Tesla wants to protect its power wall sales?
Cybertruck will almost certainly have split phase output, V2L. But V2H and V2G are different. Using your vehicle in an outage is not ideal as you're tethered to the home, if you leave your house shuts down again. A stationary system is a much better experience.
12:40 wrong way round - the EVSE tells the car how much it's allowed to draw via the PWM duty
Yeah, I corrected it later at 15:00. I do these one take, no editing, so mistakes are inevitable!
There's also a variation in pin lengths- the ground pin is the longest so it's first to connect and last to disconnect (for obvious reasons). Then the main power pins. Then the proximity and control pilot pins are the shortest, so they are the first to disconnect. This is a redundant protection so if there was a failure with the button or some form of forceful disconnect, the car could have a few milliseconds to try to drop the current when those control pins disconnect before the power pins lose connection.
A bit like a USB connecter, where the power lines are extending a tiny bit further outward than the data lines. Gives time to power up and initialise things before the data starts to flow. :)
Dealt with this guy before, very knowledgeable, fair, and one of the best out there. thanks again, the only problem he is super busy. understandable too. take care.
Could you do a deep dive of the European connector and supercharging communication?
Haha....and a deep dive of the Tesla CAN and Lin bus addresses and commands? Thanks!
Thanks! This is really interesting. So Volkswagen CEO Herbert D. Drives one of his models ID3 to Italy. Then he wished he had a Tesla as he faced delays and faulty chargers. Now his PR makes the board to vote on his confidence!
Poot Diess. Seems like a good guy. VW doesn’t deserve him.
Tesla would hire him if he got fired, and VW knows this. It's all just internal politics, but I don't expect VW will let him go so easily.
Ay 6:25, When charging, the only individual voltage the charge port pins will see i think, is the difference between the CC-CV from the supercharger and the Battery voltage, which mean a maximum of 132Vdc if the battery would be dead at 3.0V/cell and the charger would boffer in the CV state a 4.2V/cell(470Vdc), unless the charger CV state is programmed to push voltage just enough to match the SOC+ a given additional voltage and so bring only lower voltage difference between charging voltage and the battery voltage... like 10-20Vdc diff just to compensate for the cable and connector loss, internal resistance etc... so the arc might not be a 470Vdc arc i guess?
Really cool. I have no idea how you understand all this stuff but I’m glad you do, and that you share it with us!
you're blessing us with the vids!!
On the European Type 2, which has no manual latch, PP is used to tell the car the current capacity of a (non-thethered) AC cable
Yeah, In the US, we don't have detachable cables (which is silly). This is why I gave the disclaimer up front I was going to be mainly discussing the US version. This is also how Tesla tells the difference between a supercharger and CCS.
@@Ingineerix I think that you are blessed with fixed cable connection (no sockets on wallboxes). The only reason of having AC Type-2 sockets on walboxes in the EU was to be able to charge older imported vehicles with Type-1. But for common user with new vehicle with Type-2 socket is this only pain in the ass.
@@Pajdaaax the reality here in the Netherlands is a little bleak, though. I'm afraid the main beneficiary of fixed cables would be copper thieves :/
@@44Bigs Are EV cable thieves a real problem? I don't know much about this type of business, but to steal an AC cable up to 5 m long, where the cross-section of the wires is 5x6 mm2. And then you have to remove the clean Cu wires from the cable, ie either mechanically remove the two layers of insulation or burn it. Is it worth? In my country it seems still to be more practical to steal wires without insulation in much longer lengths in one place, typically on the rail.
Great info! I was hoping you would also include an analysis of the RF signal that happens when you press the button on the tesla charging handle.
I’d like to know that too. My guess is that pressing the button sends a signal to a coil/antenna in the handle that is detected by the inductive sensor he mentions about 5 minutes into the video. Seems like the simplest way to do it.
The handle sends a 315MHZ (or 455MHZ in EU) RF signal to a small receiver in the CP ECU. They use this RF/MCU to send: www.silabs.com/documents/public/data-sheets/Si4010.pdf
This is what I wanted to know too - thanks for the explanation @Ingineerix!
Excellent, thank you!
Man your on fire.
I'd donate if i weren't a broke student.
I don't think I understood more than 10% of what was happening here in this video -- but seemed legit so thumbs up LOL
21:53 Donated 100 USD. Your videos are always briliant! 👍👍
You rock, thanks!!!! If you have any requests or ideas for something you'd like to see, LMK!
In Europe, do they put DC through the Type 2 connector pins, or use the 2 seperate outboard pins as per standard CCS?
The older EU Tesla standard "buddy paired" the 4 Type 2 pins for +/-. Now Tesla is using the CCS system.
@@Ingineerix What old Teslas use is CCS-Mid, which was kicked out of the standard after Tesla began using it. So it's not actually a "Tesla standard" aside from the communication protocol they use for the superchargers.
@@HenryLoenwind cheers for the info. As an owner of a Euro style (actually Australian car in NZ) Model S I think the Type 2 DC solution is much neater. Probably can't handle as much current as CCS-2 but it can do 120kW which is enough for me for now :)
@@Ingineerix more precisely it's like that on all EU Model S and X cars. Even the new ones. Model 3 and Y use regular Type2/CCS connectors and thus CHAdeMO adapter for MS and MX doesn't work with them. There is a CCS adapter for MS and MX.
Things get slightly more complicated with European Teslas Model S+X (2012-2021) with an Type2 inlet, running DC mid or AC 3-phase. There, you need four contactors (instead of two) to either connect 4 pins to either 2x DC+ and 2x DC (DC charging) or connecting them to L1, L2, L3 and Neutral (3-phase AC charging). CCS gets rid of them: the DC lines go to the battery contactors, the AC lines to the onbord charger.
Thank you one of the simplest explanation. Is there a site or link you have or can point on the supercharger CAN/SWCAN protocol that Tesla uses. I'm trying to implement it to see if I can close the contactors on the EV side. Any pointers or help is appreciated. I have been able to do it with other cars that use PLC/GreenPHY as CCS uses ISO15118/DIN70121 (also going to try with newer Teslas that use NACS/PLC) but older ones that have SWCAN - I am not able to due to the closed nature of the handshaking/protocol Tesla uses. I am not sure if anyone has reverse engg it.
Proximity pilot and Control pilot
Always see Mike in the comments 😊
Proximity pilot isn't in J1772, it's for type 2. Don't confuse proximity detection with proximity pilot, they're two completely different things.
@@GregHassler Greg is perfectly right, the J1772 SAE Standards make no mention of "Proximity Pilot" at all.
Best video description thank you
Tesla could modify the charger located on the PCS board to make it two way but they could also sell a Tesla external inverter or a Wall Connector/inverter (similar to the one Ford uses with the Lighting) that I think would only require firmware changes. Then both the vehicle owners and Tesla could make money in a VPP program and help out the grid. An external inverter could also handle power spikes of more than 11KW. I would not mind if Tesla also made a small amount for each KW cycled through the HV battery (to recover any wear and tear) if it would get them to allow such use. I recently purchased a Tesla with a LFP traction battery which should last at least 300K miles even if used as stationary storage. Just finished watching the video were you mentioned this very topic. Thanks for your great vids!
They "could", yes, but the cost to make and install such as system would probably be around $8k. Who would pay for that? (Essentially all the same hardware as a grid-tied solar system, but without the solar panels)
10:03 In the UK (likely all EU), many older Teslas have CCS upgrades (including my 2018 Model S). They literally change that module and give you an adapter! 😂 Costs £200, so pretty reasonable. And then supports faster charging.
Been waiting for this!!
This site is the best I’ve experienced. Would you do a video on the Plaid rear camber and toe arms? Are they adjustable? I’m concerned about rear tire wear.
@RicTSLA: Phil already did this video. Check out the Plaid rear motors drive which shows the entire rear suspension including the 5 links.
Your charge port pin description is incorrect. Left of ground pin is the pilot and right of ground pin is proximity.
Great discussion. Thank you
Such a cleaner plug and connection. Thinner wire to the Super charger as well
Another great video @Ingineerix, thank you. You seem to be enjoying this hobby, I hope you keep enjoying it and we keep getting to enjoy learning from you!
Would it be possible to export power from the Tesla battery with the CHAdeMO adapter? I believe CHAdeMO is bidirectional, I wonder if Tesla implemented that capability.
Another great video! Thanks!
What is required to replace the charger port on April 2021 Model Y US version to be able to supercharge in Europe?
Fantastic content. Thanks for all you do.
Awesome overview. Thanks. Do you know where I can read more about the specific CAN protocol used to negotiate DC charging?
Public information does not exist, sorry!
@@Ingineerix oh interesting. Isnt there any other company besides Tesla that builds DC chargers for Tesla EVs?
Do you know if there open communication protocols for other standarts? (CCS1/2 Chademo, etc)
@@JRabba1995 As far as I know, nobody. Tesla has not released the SWCAN "Supercharger protocol" to anyone. I have reverse-engineered it somewhat out of curiosity. However, Any Tesla since 2021 also speaks "CCS" (ISO15118) so a DCFC manufacturer could just put a NACS "whip" on an existing CCS charger and it would work with all 2021+ Teslas or any Tesla that has had the PLC retrofit. Going forward this is how all 3rd party OEMs will work on the supercharger network. Tesla could not release the SWCAN protocol to 3rd party OEMs as there is no real authentication mechanism, the car controls auth. This is fine on all Tesla cars on Tesla DCFCs, but not workable on other OEM fleets.
In China, Tesla also adopted early to the GB/T standards (that required one AC inlet and one DC inlet on Teslas), giving up their own Tesla proprietary connector.
I'm not going to cover the Chinese market, as TH-cam is not legal there.
Good video, good explanation… thank you! Do you have an idea where an AC optocoupler (bi-directional input) could be used in such an application? Thank you in advance
You sure about v3 cabinets not using stacks of chargers in them? Iirc they’re same boards but different case for racking?
Very informative and interesting! Thanks so much! Keep going this lessons!
13:19 All DC fast charger (CCS) use 5% duty cycle to switch protocol.
Tried service set up - it’s not until Dec 7 - We are in Raleigh NC
In your opinion what's better between the Tesla proprietary charger vs CCS?
CCS is a disaster. Tesla's system is simpler, more reliable, and the connector is more compact and reliable.
@@Ingineerix What do you think about his (Winter Tashlin from Transport Evolved) opinion on CCS for Tesla in the USA? See TH-cam: "Is Tesla About to Change How Charging Works in North America?", Nov 6th 2021
Regarding the CCS Type 1 to US Tesla adapter - while the actuator in the Tesla charge port could lock the adapter to the inlet, what is it, that would lock the CCS plug to the CCS adapter? So in the US-Tesla-to-CCS adapter there must be another locking actuator, this means a PCB and small electric motor. Even if PLC is handled on the PCB in the car, the adapter cannot be completely simple and dumb.
I’m not certain because I haven’t seen the new Type 1 CCS adapter in person yet, but it’s my impression that there is a mechanical “finger” that is compressed when you insert the adapter into the car and this mechanically latches the adapter onto the CCS plug while the adapter is inserted into the Tesla receptacle on the car. Thus, the adapter remains passive.
@@jeffnisewanger8260 After your comment I looked at the European version. I found a good explanation here: th-cam.com/video/cI1_mG1FuNo/w-d-xo.html
There is a mechanism as you say: two mechnical claws at the sides are mechanically latched from the adapter into the CCS plug as soon as the CCS adapter is plugged into the Tesla vehicle inlet. I could not think of such a mechanical solution and take the blame.
My favourite channel and an excellent resource.
Can I ask you, what king of EVSE did you show on the video? Orange one, I never seen such. I cut open few of them to modify and repair them, but never seen an orange ones.
As far as I know, when Tesla was been using gen2 chargers on the supercharger, logic board was been different, but power electronics was been the same in OBC and in supercharger one.
This is interesting what they are start to use qca7005 inside of the charge port controller on us market.
Wrong on V2G, chademo exposes DC battery contacts and the device at home/work makes it into AC. That’s technically possible here too.
17:05 hopefully firmware update of these chargers via the vehicle does not allow for installation of malicious firmware?
It's got a secure bootloader. It would be a lot of work to get around this, and they'd have to connect to YOUR charge cord to do anything, and it would really be limited to just breaking the unit, as it can't do anything really "bad". To be clear: It won't work the other way, something on the charge side cannot push firmware into the car only the obverse.
Elon said the cars are going to support 300kw soon, did they have to make changes to the connector for this? Assuming they will also need to upgrade the chargers?
Also can you do a tear down/deep dive into the keys (phone, card, key)
That likely will come from the 110s in 2022 Model S/X battery packs instead of 96s (former S and X, 3+Y). This is an 15% increase in voltage. 250 kW peak * 1.15 = 287 kW peak. Round up in an optimistic fashion => 300 kW. It will likely apply to 2022 Model S and X only. Tesla then will need to take care, that the Tesla chargers can actually provide up to 110s times 4.2 V = about 462 Volts plus a little bit, so 500 V DC. So far, they were capped at around 410 Volts.
6:09 Another reason is to prevent people from accidently tripping on the cable.
Thanks for this detailed video. My mobile charger gen 2 is making 6 flash lights when I plug it into the car (green light when it’s not connected to the car). Got error message CP_a004, CP_a103 and CP_a099 on the screen while it’s connected. And the car asks confirmation that no cable is connected before to start running, like if it is not able to detect if a cable is connected or not.
Do you believe the issue comes from the mobile charger and it need to be changed?
6 flashes on a Gen 2 means incorrect Pilot levels. CP_a004 is Proximity Rationality, CP_a103 is Proximity Ground Bad, and CP_a099 is Cable State unknown. If you charge on another connector and it works without error, yeah, it's your cable. Otherwise it could also be something in the car's charge port. If your cable is worn, it could have experienced broken conductors in the cable, this happens often when people don't know how to wrap cables correctly (no twist).
CCS has that locking pin too. It failed on my BMW i3 and I couldn’t DC fast charge. As a safety measure, the charger needs confirmation that the connector is locked. It doesn’t care with AC charging.
Yeah, all high-current DC fast charging systems must have a latch to ensure no arc flash if disconnected under load.
@@Ingineerix More subtly, it requires that the charge controller be functional.
The on-board charge controller must command the shut off of charge current, monitor that current flow has stopped, open the contactor, and verify that it has opened before it commands the connector lock to disengage. A crashed controller or other fault will not release the connector, avoiding arcs and live contacts.
That's why A/C charging can use an external mechanical pawl latch, but DCFC requires an internal electrically actuated lock pin.
Would love to have seen something about the RF connection and antenna for the charge handle button receiver. Mine had an intermittent reception. Question is why? Tesla fixed it by disconnecting and connecting again. But didn’t want to do myself due to warranty.
I've answered this now a bunch of times: The handle sends a 315MHZ (or 455MHZ in EU) RF signal to a small receiver in the CP ECU. They use this RF/MCU to send: www.silabs.com/documents/public/data-sheets/Si4010.pdf
I heard it's common issues, board in the handle gets wet thru pins or plastic film and starts corroding.
I always wondered what the ventilation mode was for. I hadn't considered less acid batteries!
Communication protocol did came over from 90s, with cars as a gm ev1, Ford ranger electric, Toyota rav4ev(1gen), Honda city and other was been a thing. Most of them(lead-acid and ni-cd, ni-mh packs was been a main choice and they are require ventilation).
Need a channel like this one for CCS.... Shame the US did not make Tesla go to CCS like the EU did, so there could be one standard...
Extremely informative, thank you!
So are there any advantages to the European CSS standard over the US Tesla connector, or vice versa?
There's a Proximity (or Proximity Detection) and a Control Pilot.
"Proximity Pilot" is generally a misused term in the US, Proximity Pilot is used for the type 2 standard in Europe where they have removable cables. Charging must be limited to the lesser of 1) Charger's max output, 2) Vehicle's max input, or 3) Cable's ampacity rating. Proximity Pilot is the signal the removable cable uses to tell the EVSE what cable rating is plugged in. It uses the same "pin" but on the "other side" of the cable - remember Proximity Detection at the vehicle doesn't leave the handle, it's not connected to the wire in the charging cable. Proximity Pilot has nothing to do with Proximity Detection on the vehicle side. But people in North America hear "Proximity Pilot" and just assume it's synonymous with Proximity Detection.
Hey Phil - simply fantastic! I'm a dangerously incompetent tinkerer and electric motorcycle owner. Can i ask a really dumb question? My Harley Livewire comes with an AC charger cable. It is single phase to allow me to charge from any 240V outlet, has a big chunky box and a lead and Mennekes style plug to plug into the AC input in the bike. However, 240V outlets aren't always available but AC charge stations generally are, but i can only use them if i carry another lead with male/female mennekes plugs, which is a total pain on a bike. My question is, is there a way to make a simple adapter that i can plug into an AC charge station and my standard lead (with 240V plug) that will feed the right signals to to the charge station and bike to work?? Surely there must be a way ? PS i donated $50 to help your efforts and for your time to answer my dumb question.
Yeah, in the US, we don't have detachable cable sets on public charge stations. Sadly, there is no easy way to do what you suggest, but you should be able to take an existing mennekes cable and shorten it and maybe even make replacement handles that are smaller/lighter. Thanks for the support!
How hard is it to modify a Model 3 with US-plug to CCS2 (what components need to be replaced) ? Asking from Taiwan where we suffered a plug change. Older cars were US-plug, newer ones are CCS2. No retrofit available (yet?).
@Ingineerix now that Tesla have opened up their network to other vehicle manufacturers at least in Europe CCS2 and AUS CCS2, why do some brands of cars not negotiate with Tesla to accept a charge?
Well, if you read up on CCS (DIN 70121) signalling, it's incredibly over-complex, clearly designed by a committee, and if everything isn't perfectly implemented , it can fail to perform properly. Here in the US, Tesla has opened only to certain manufacturers, and they validate that upon connection, so currently unapproved EVs don't charge. If it's not an intentional block, then it could be just an edge-case and someone has some testing and bug-fixing to do, could be either Tesla or the EV manufacturer, or even a 3rd party supplier that the EV manufacturer used. This could take a lot of time, and some EVs do not enjoy OTA updates, so it may require a trip to the dealership to get an update if that's where the problem lies. If it's on Tesla's side, this may take a long time to resolve as Elon famously fired everyone in the supercharging team. I know he hired back some of them, but it's still probably pretty messy over there.
I wondered if using some of newer connections like ccs if they could do vtg with software and of course a DC controller at home
It's still gonna be pricey. Chademo is available, but about 5k$. 10kw if I remember correctly. Difference is only on the logic side between V2X chademo and ccs.
I can't wait for a lighting, cheapest way to implement V2X via ccs is gonna be to integrate it into OBC, and got a AC out of car with modified EVSE what can do so. It can be also deeply integrated into a smart grid using GreenPHY protocol what ccs and your power meter in your home uses.
Thanks for making these videos. Any tip on what the proxRationality alert that comes and goes constantly in my Model S is from?
Yes, that means there is likely a loose ground connection to the charge port, or (less likely) a bad pin module in the charge port connector. The loose ground is not uncommon. It's a large green wire on the driver side located under the rear seat cushion that is attached to the body with an M6 fastener.
@@Ingineerix Thanks! I will check on that.
The automotive grade PowerPC chip, do you know what nanometer that silicon is?
Is that an old design like the fabs want to stop having to make for cars, or is it a newer design that they are happy to invest in more capacity?
google SPC5 32-bit Automotive MCUs, those are 40nm. It's design for 15years and the new SPC56 family for 20years. So don't think they will switch anytime soon.
From a news article on SPC57: "SPC57 series adopt the world's most advanced 55 nanometer technology, up to 80 MHZ clock speed."
You are making really good content, it reminds me Munro Live or Jack Rickard, I'm looking forward for your next video.
Could you update a model 3 to 22kw AC charging?
Just made a donation. Thanks for your videos.
Much appreciated!
What is Supercharging Protocol mentioned in Video. How it is different from SAEj1772
It doesn't have anything in common with SAE J1772. It's closer to CHAdeMO, but it's proprietary. It uses single-wire CAN at 33.3k over the pilot line.
At 16:45 isn't that a current sensor?
It is, but the pass both AC lines though the core, so only a difference current will be detected (ground fault).
@@Ingineerix Oh snap that's genius! Thank you!
Precharge circuit description is missing for AC charging but it's on the onboard charger side which this video didn't touch.
Yes, I didn't cover the details in the power conversion (on board charger). I've touched on this in previous videos though.
@@Ingineerix re-reading my comment, it sounded harsh. I was just making a comment on the precharge circuit missing from a charging video. Great content as always. Love seeing these. Now, how awesome would it be to get a hold of a V3 supercharger module
@@akmanarda That's ok. If you get one, I'd love to do a teardown!
So, when Tesla brings the CCS adapter to the US, will Tesla need to replace that PCB on older S and X vehicles? Any other changes necessary?
We have an adaptor and mods to the charge system cost approx £300
Older S/X need a bit more.
Yes exactly correct, the charge communication box is replaced/inserted at about 150€ for cars made before 2019. Then after that time all cars need the adapter which can do 150kW in addition for about 150€ as well. The prices might be a bit off, but Tesla fully supports the upgrades and do them off-site.
Can you compare the wire size for the plaid and the model 3? Do you think the plaid will support higher supercharging currents in the future? It seems the batteries should take more. The 3/Y charges at 250 kW / 80 kwhr = 3.12C. That should indicate the new S should be able to do 312 kW, if the chemistry and cooling are similar. Plus, the battery voltage is higher, so lower charging cable current for the same kW....
Yes, I agree, but the point is moot until the superchargers are upgraded.
@@Ingineerix but, are the cables on the plaid larger than the 3/Y? That might determine if they can push more current into the battery.
@@jonathanviventi1380 They do not appear to be, but again, that isn't what's limiting power.
@@Ingineerix Interesting! I'm interested to see how fast the Plaid can charge once we get v4 superchargers! The model 3 manages 250 kW, with only a 96S battery and 80 kwhr. The Plaid is 110S, so at 250 kW, it's pulling 13% less current already. So, if the current was the limit, the plaid should easily be able to charge 13% more than 250 kW. If the cells are the limit, then with a 25% larger battery, it should be able to do 25% kW, or 312 kW.
@@jonathanviventi1380 I haven't yet seen a V4 supercharger. Yes, if the limit is current, the pack will be able to charge a bit faster. I suspect that the Plaid's better cooling would allow even more, but right now seems the supercharger is the limit, so no point in speculating.
Is the red led always flashing on the small board
Old Model S and X can upgrade to suppot CCS in Europe. They change the small, white charge controller in the car, and give you an adapter similar to the US J1772 adapter with Combo2 input and Type2 output. Adapter is a passive adapter only passing electricity thru it. Model S and X used only the AC-part of the Type2 plug. Even for Supercharging.
If the adapter was completely passive only, it could not contain an electric locking mechanism to lock the CCS plug to the adapter. This would be dangerous due to arcing, if someone just pulled out the CCS plug from the adapter during charging.
Is there a way to check if your car will need the PCB replacement in order for the upcoming CCS adapter to work? Also, can't this chip be internal of the adapter, so that it works with older Model 3's?
Great video, great design! Cheers.
Could be interesting how they integrate the much bigger CCS2 port to the Model S (which has a much smaller flap than the 3/Y).
Tesla has plenty of time, as new Model S and X for Europe are moved to end of 2022. See Teslamag: "Zwei Jahre ohne Premium-Teslas: Model S und Model X für Europa erst Ende 2022 wieder".
Regarding the J1772 adapter - that is not locked, right? While the actuator in the Tesla charge port could lock the adapter, nothing locks the actual J1772 connector to the adapter. This means, anyone could unplug that.
How does tesla authenticate supercharging with the vehicle vin? I assume through can it looks up the vin number then Tesla remotely authorizes that the vehicle is eligible for supercharging (free, paid etc)
The CAR controls the supercharger. The car determines whether it will supercharge, and collects billing info.
Thanks for explanation
Great as usual! Thanks!
I HAVE A 2013 TESLA S and when I attach my GEN 1 charger the light is green and after I plug it to the car port the green and the charger lights starts a green sequential flashing. Within 30 seconds the charging port goes to a solid red and the charger still glows green but it stops the sequential flashing . the dash panel said check charging cable. I opened notifications and it showed CHG_007 AND CHG_012. I then used a public charger and my J adapter and with 30 seconds the car port glowed a steady red. I am able to still use a TESLA charging station to recharge. Please help me with this issue
Is the inductive switch circuit from the lid waterproof? I got an error just after washing the car
Supposed to be, but this is a known issue on older cars. Park in the sun and it'll dry out pretty fast.
fascinating, thanks for the video!
I wonder if this supercharger protocol is used in Europe at all, as the type 2 (non CCS) DC charging used with the model X and Y is part of the IEC standard as well. I would assume for CCS cars the v3 superchargers have always used CCS protocol in Europe, just like they do for non-Tesla cars in the pilot that is now going on.
Yes, in Europe the Supercharger protocol is used by Tesla S+X with Type2 (non CCS). It is also used by 3+Y on CCS on a supercharger. You can tell from the fact, that Teslas transmit information on authentication to the Supercharger enabling Tesla-proprietary plug and play without apps or RFID cards. Also the vehicle receives information from the Supercharger.
In contrast, in the 10 Supercharger sites in NL, where the field test now got started, all non-Tesla customer must use the Tesla App, authenticate, agree on pricing and fees, select a stall and start charging from there. So, obviously Tesla did not yet implement "Plug and Charge" according to ISO 15118.
@@koeniglicher right, I forgot the V2 SuC needs a way to identify the car as well. Then it makes sense that Tesla uses their own protocol across the board.
@@koeniglicher There was a time last year when suddenly all non-Tesla CCS-EVs could charge at superchargers in Europe. Seems they rolled out the software update for the superchargers to speak CCS and forgot to put a dummy ("always no") authentication module in.
It's a bit of a facepalm now that nobody noticed at that time that superchargers weren't supposed to be able to "speak" CCS at all. That was a big hint at Tesla preparing to open the network...
It's my understanding that the Tesla connector came about because when the Model S was being designed Tesla asked the J1772 SAE committee in 2010 what the physical configuration of the J1772 Plug/inlet was going to be so that they could put it in the S. The committee, not wanting this car company upstart to have the physical dimensions, said that it had not been finalized yet. They basically lied to Tesla since Yazaki already had the drawings and was making tools for it. Tesla also designed their Plug/Inlet to be capable of the full 80A that the J1772 Spec called for using a totally different kind of electrical pin, which is more like the Type 2 pin.
Agreed. J1772 wasn't even finalized, let alone CCS.
Tesla offered SAE that they could all use the Tesla connector design free of charge. GM and Ford refused on basis of NIH egos. Such a shame that now we are stuck with the inelegant CCS design.
Do you think it would be possible to get an older Model S retrofitted with the microcontroller board to use the CCS adapter?
Tesla would have to support it.
How do you think they will fit a ccs port on the new model s and x cars for Europe do you think they will take the model 3 back light with charge port or do you think they will stick with the modified type 2 port?
Hi, We brought our 2021 Model 3 LR four times to Tesla Technician they replaced the charger port and this still doesn’t fix the problem on this 3000 miles vehicle. Everything works and charges just fine, but we kept getting the error on the screen that beeps. The error message while we are driving says “unable to charge, disconnect and retry”. and “unable to charge - service is required , charge port is not detected “. Anyway just made another appointment for service again. Wondering if you have any idea how this can be resolved? I have rebooted the car and still not resolved. Thanks!
Sounds like a bad ground, or bad CP ECU. Next time it acts up get the alert codes and I can give you a better diagnosis. (They will be visible under the car tab, then [Service], and [Notifications].
Tesla connecter was designed by engineers with the best ideas used, CCS was designed by a marketing department whose goal was to discourage EV adoption.
Typical nonsense....
Not true, Leo. CCS was designed to be capable up to 500A and 1000 V DC, 400 kW to support charging busses and trucks. The proprietary US Tesla connector will likely show its DC limits with charging Tesla Roadster II and Tesla Cybertruck.
@@koeniglicher
Would it not have been better to design a proper heavy duty connecter for busses and trucks since they will not be using the same charging network?
koeniglicher The Tesla connector only need to switch out power relays to support higher Amps and higher Voltage. The connector are just metal and plastics the electronics behind them is what regulate the charging power.
@@kazedcat Metal and plastics is important. Metal pins need a higher diameter for higher amperage so that they do not overheat. Plastics needs certain distances to still isolate from higher voltages. Just think of why a CCS socket or the Tesla connector look different than a NEMA 5-15 or European Type F or Type G household plug. They are also just "metal and plastics". And a USB connector is also just "metal and plastics", but for way lower amps and voltage.
My Wallcharger was having a problem for a time that it would not charge. I would get an error message that the lock to hold the cable in place was not working. The problem was intermittent. At first I would turn off power to the charger, wait a few minutes and turn the power back on. Sometimes I would have to lower cycle several times before I could charge my car
I turned off the power to the charger and took off the putter cover, one security torx on the bottom. The inner cover has several security torx fasteners holding it in place. You may have to pry this cover off. Be careful as there is a cable that connects to the lights you see on the outside of the unit. At this point you can see we’re the power wires come in at the bottom. There are also 4 small wires that carry the communication signals to the charger. As mentioned they are the PP wires as well as 2 ground wires. They have crimped on terminals at the end of the wires and screw into a connector fastened to the circuit board that is inside the unit. Since I could hear the lock engage and disengage I assumed a signal was not reaching the car from the charger. I could also move the lock manually from inside the trunk.
I removed and cleaned the 4 small wires and the charger worked for a time but would fail again after a couple of uses. I tinned the crimped on connectors with a thin coating of solder. This seems to have fixed the problem. Hope this helps anyone else who has this problem.
Thanks for posting!
I have a 2018 model 3, so I more than likely don’t have the PLC modem in my charge port ECU to support CCS charging. Once the Tesla CCS adapter gets released to the US market, would it be as simple as swapping in a more recent charge port ECU that has the PLC modem so that I could do CCS charging via the adapter? As in a drop in ECU replacement?
Well, Yes, but it will require software support from Tesla, along with a config change, so sadly you can't do it yourself. (Unless Tesla opens it up)
Well done. You got a new follower
Thanks Rui, I appreciate that! If you are feeling generous, you can also support my channel! There is a link at the bottom of my channel's "about" page: th-cam.com/users/Ingineerixabout
Thanks very Interesting and well explained.
What is the max wattage that the HV DC to 12 DC converter can deliver?
It depends, but about 2.5kW. You also have to take into account what the rest of the systems in the car need.
WTF! / LOL @ 8:05 - There's a *mechanical* relay in the charge port ECU? With all of this amazing, cutting-edge technology that Tesla has developed there's still an 1800's-era piece of technology? Why not a more reliable MOSFET? Great series - thank you so much for these excellent, in-depth videos!
Cost / Reliability. They could have used an Analog multiplexer or pair of solid state relays, but since the input to this relay is a pin in the charge port, it's going to be subject to a lot of electrical abuse. I think a relay was a good choice.
Interesting the new connector matches the original Tesla connector
In Tesla it was been only two tilypes of connectors: one what was been used on roadster and afterwards Tesla start using existing connector on S in 2011 if I recall it correctly.
The charge port door on the model x does not have a magnet in it ..it has the push button ..and it seems super buggy is that firmware issue ? The charge ecu on the Model x looks similar but it’s different
New Model X switched to this type.
@@Ingineerix tesla has come out 5 times to fix they replaced the charge port door and the charge port ..the lights on charge ecu are always flashing 2 red leds ..it never gets the slow one led ..the charge port closes and opens fine but it doesn’t on the screen or the app .it says door sensor error ..tesla can’t fix it
@@Ingineerix 2020 model x
@@Ingineerix no wonder Elon shutdown line it’s because of firmware and communication errors on the model x ..the 2020 is just super buggy ok everything
I've heard that 3 and Y charge ports since late 2020 is heated, but do you know what part of the port that is? If it is the hatch itself or the locking pin inside
I don't yet have one to analyze. Feel free to send me one and I'll do a video!
Thank you!
So say I were to spoof a 5% duty cycle connection would this just drop me onto the cars CAN bus? If so would you not be able to exploit this?
I don’t have any actual knowledge on car electronics other than what I’ve gathered from watching youtube videos. Yet I won’t hesitate to share my thoughts. There are multiple CAN buses in a vehicle and the one exposed here is probably pretty limited in scope. Let’s hope someone with actual knowledge comes by to correct this or, unlikely, feed my ego by confirming this statement.
The charging communication is a point-to-point connection. It doesn't connect to any other bus on the car, and the controller does not bridge (i.e. forward) frames.
It's worth noting that Tesla A/C EVSE "charger" (a UMC or wall connector) will almost always end up communicating over CAN with a Tesla vehicle.
A Tesla charger will fall back to using the J1772 PWM signalling if it fails to communicate.
A Tesla vehicle will charge using J1772 signal if that's all it detects.
So it is possible that a detection failure will result in a J1772 PWM charging session, but that is the vanishly rare exception.
Powerline communcations not available there? weird! I love that tech, using it even home :)
proximity pilot and *control pilot* (what you call just pilot)
Someone on TH-cam pushed a button to simulate the charge port closed and the car started charging from a solar generator in the trunk while driving. Is this actually possible, or was the video a hoax?
I heard you say that V2H won't happen because it's not easy or inexpensive but a power wall is what $7K? And it has ~1/10 the capacity of my Model 3 battery that I already paid for.
So is it really just that Tesla wants to protect its power wall sales?
What about Tesla having to warranty the battery for time and mileage use if someone
used this to power their house ?
Cybertruck will almost certainly have split phase output, V2L. But V2H and V2G are different. Using your vehicle in an outage is not ideal as you're tethered to the home, if you leave your house shuts down again. A stationary system is a much better experience.