I find the polishing phase of development to be the most satisfying. You're already totally familiar with the code and it's quirks. Seeing your creation reach it's full potential is great.
Such a fantastic series, as someone who always has had ideas for games but none of the time/patience to learn a whole new skill, you’re doing it! Can’t wait to see where your development journey goes next!
"I had this problem and should really do X, but that was kinda hard so I cheated." That's not cheating, that's game design. Not every problem needs a technical solution. Changing art, levels, design, etc. are all valid tools to solve any problem you might come across. You don't need a bug-free perfectly simulated magnet. You need the *experience* of a bug-free perfectly simulated magnet. All the hacks and workarounds you used won't hurt the player if they go unnoticed.
Yep-the bush sprites in old 2d Mario games are just cloud sprites colored green and stuck halfway into the ground texture. Cheats and workarounds is game design!
Especially with the character animations, my reaction to every change that was being made was "That's so charming! That's so distinctive! Don't call that a cheat - it's better that way!"
I've been a professional software engineer for 22 years. You didn't screw anything up. Yeah, you broke your insane momentum that you had in the beginning, but that would have likely happened anyway somewhere down the line even if you didn't have to put it on pause. This is quite a polished MVP, particularly given your lack of knowledge and expertise! You made a playable game in 30 days worth of effort. That's awesome!
Both times I've participated in a game jam, the process has gone like this: - Brainstorm and plan for a couple hours, and come up with an idea that I think is 100% doable. - Cut planning short because I'm anxious to start developing. - Get 30% to 50% of the project done before realizing its *not* doable, and I'm running out of time. - Scrap the project and try to put the leftover broken pieces together into a new much simpler game. Both times I've finished the jam with a game to show for it, but the end product is radically different from my original idea.
@@Tustin2121 It's tough. The second time I almost gave up. But I pushed through for my team; I probably would have given up if I was solo. Then I was so embarrassed by the end product that I almost didn't submit it. But during judging, player reactions were kind and supportive, and that made me feel better. The game's overall rating was pretty bad in the end though, lol. My team and I did much better the first time before that though; we got something like 160th place in the Ludum Dare, which I thought was pretty good for a first jam.
Having quite a few game jams now it's great realising your own work speed and skill, especially if you can get a regular group to do them with. Me and my dev friends are pretty comfortable with our skills now and can plan out a game pretty quickly, dodging most traps that would either take too much time or break easily.
Hey man, you just learned what it feels to be an indie game developer. The hard part is not code, art, gameplay or level design... the hard part is keep the momentum going.
This comment reminded me that the developer of Cave Story took 6 years to make it. They were still working a full time job and took what time they could between 1998-2004 to eventually get the game out there.
@@stevencraeynest7729 Yeah, and luckily one of the things Mark doesn't have to worry as much about as us average devs. The most painful part is when you release your game and only 12 people plays it, 1 guy hates it, 1 guy says meh, and 10 people doesn't leave any feedback
"[In 1949,] as soon as we started programming, we found to our surprise that it wasn't as easy to get programs right as we had thought. Debugging had to be discovered. I can remember the exact instant when I realised that a large part of my life from then on was going to be spent in finding mistakes in my own programs." - Maurice Wilkes
I know how you feel, Mark. I also always lose my game design momentum whenever I have to do unnecessary stuff like... that kind of boring work that pays my bills. Nice video, as always!
Very interesting journey, the final project looks great and has some very interesting mechanics, your massive game design experience really helped. It is definitely an excellent MVP, much better than my first games, so I would definitely consider this experiment a massive success! Regarding the issue of losing momentum, my advice would be to work on the game every day, even if for just 1 hour. Stopping completely for several days or weeks does cause a massive penalty like you experienced, by the time you get back it takes you at least one full day to remember how everything works. Working on it every single day (no matter how little) greatly helps in reducing that penalty. So congrats on a successful challenge!
@@katisteven3642 A "zero day" in computer security is a vulnerability (=a way to hack into the system) that's been known by the developer for 0 days. Most vulnerabilities are known and get patched, but attackers (=hackers) can still get into a system using old vulnerabilities if that system hasn't been updated in a while. If an attacker finds a vulnerability that nobody else knows of it's a 0 day, and they are basically guaranteed that the attack will succeed. Because of this, people that find 0 days usually don't use them themselves. A lot of people pay a lot of money for 0 days. Both the software developers, the attackers, and the in-betweens (like law enforcement). Everybody wants to be the first one to get their hands on them. Scary stuff!
@@AntonLejon I always thought zero day meant that the bug had been there since day 0 (indexed from 0 of course since we're talking about programmers). Thank you for sharing the information but I have to say I prefer my definition. It feels a bit to me like in The Martian when at one point the story goes back all the way to the start to explain a critical bug that goes unnoticed which much later turns into a disaster.
Some great advice I heard for planning out a game project is: - Make an honest estimate for how long each feature/level will take to implement - Double the amount of time you thought - If you've never done that specific thing before, triple it instead It seems drastic but you're gonna need a lot more time than you think
Last one to add, you'll still overshoot it My advice based on doing entrepreneurship for last 7 years is aim for what's realistic, but expect to overshoot it by 30%
I'm a software tester, and I must say, you've learned the lesson of the last week, that many (huge) companies didn't yet :) It is said that fixing bugs during development is 90% cheaper than in production (considering every aspect of a release cycle and user impact), so your wife put you on the right path with her insight
As a game designer, my reaction to your schedule reveal went like... 1. Oh nice he's planning out his days 2. Ehh you generally shouldn't start with level 1, you don't know your game well enough until you've made "regular" levels 3. LOL there's absolutely no way 3 days is enough polish time Overall great series so far! :)
Trying to make an MVP in a short time frame is both one of the hardest but one of the best things you can do as a game designer trying to learn. Its something every beginner does, coming up with grand ideas for massive systems. Its much more important to actually make something that can be turned into an .exe file and uploaded to itch. Very much looking forward to the video, your channel has taught me so much and inspired my game dev journey more than any other over the last year and a half.
I think this is a great way of practice everything you're trying to learn, because you can put an Start and a viable goal to reach the end, and consider the project finished. I'm doing this with Pixel art right now and seeing all the things I've done just keep me motivated.
We actually did a video about building a quality MVP on a tight time budget for the GMTK 2020 Game Jam! Totally true that building a small game in a small timeframe is one of the best things to do as a game designer. Cut, cut, and focus until you have something simple that people can play.
Yep. Ultimately, his result was outstanding considering his experience and the time frame. I did not put as much polish into the first thing I released to the public. (although I did make a nicer menu :p ) And yeah, it is one the best challenges. It can absolutely sap all the energy out of you, so I would honestly recommend a shorter time frame and smaller scope. But everyone should try it.
Context switching (e.g between the mvp and your youtube vids) is always killer to motivation. For people who have day jobs and are doing this in spare time, best thing is the “no 0% days” mantra. Even if you make a small tweak or just a design on paper, it keeps the momentum going forward and helps with motivation.
Yeah, that "no 0% days" is the same as the five-minute rule for any larger project. Spend five minutes every day on the project. Do more if you feel like it, but if you've done five minutes, you've done good. If you think that you only need to do five minutes of work and then you're done, it's far easier to start than it is if you think you need to work an hour or more. Even if you end up working several hours after the first five minutes. Another method is keeping a schedule. Have some time set aside for videos, some time for game dev, and a bunch of time that's free to spend on what you feel is necessary. That can be done on a daily or weekly basis, depending on preference.
Its certainly been the best way for me to push through any project, especially when you get to the “I hate this” stage 😂 You’ll often the “5 minutes” you spend on something becomes 30mins to an hour. Its always starting thats the hardest part, once you get going it becomes easier :)
What makes this series so effective for me is something carried over from the rest of the channel: the tone is engagingly conversational while somehow being more concise and chock-full of insight than most.
As a regular software developer I had to grin at several parts in the video especially about the whiteboard and how others can completely wreck software. Also I instantly knew what was missing from that planned schedule. I'm glad that you finished it and I look forward to seeing it.
As a game designer in AAA myself, who's been following you for years, let me say this... Mark, this series is awesome! And like so many others in the comments, I am proud of you. On your own, you've discovered what goes behind the scenes of pretty much every single game you've ever played. So far you've experienced having gone in the wrong direction multiple times, making the mistake of not prototyping first, the need for Agile planning, production fatigue, feature creep, radical re-scope and learned to not underestimate the power of feedback and playtesting. That said, I hope this helps a lot of people get some idea about what developing a game is like. And still make them want to do it themselves. The MVP looks amazing, especially since you did it in 30 (non-consecutive) days. This is an achievement you should be proud of. Thank you for doing what you do and stay safe! :)
I’m curious, what company do you work in? And what game are you working on? I want to get in game development but I also got stuck at the blueprint system in Unreal lol.
"On your own..." well he wasn't completely figuring it out on his own. He did research, he interviewed. But I know what you meant. Over time, I'm learning that project management skills are invaluable in just about any line of work, but especially ones like this where it's really easy for a mistake to hide in plain sight, really hard to clearly define the finished product without iterating very cautiously, and in general, a PITB to keep on track.
I love how relatable all of these points are to other indie developers. I felt the pain in "and he found... even more bugs," and "I lost all that momentum" in so many ways.
Loved the video! I'd actually caution against adding your sound effects early. Yes, sound effects improve your game drastically but you want a solid foundation first. If you can get an action or event to feel impactful *without* sound then it'll feel amazing *with* sound. Add the sound early and all your impact moments might just feel "good enough." Games gotta get done though, so I wouldn't begrudge anyone for doing sounds early.
It's funny because Mark is known for his video on design accessibility, and the easiest way to test how a game feels for deaf and HoH people is to mute the sound.
But you need the place holders, you don't want to break everything because you forgot where the sound will go. And you may not want to put the sound inside the game but you may want to start to look for (or create) sounds to help you to find the feeling you want for the game. Sounds needs to go side by side with all the designs, but you need to turn off sometimes to focus on something. For example, you don't need art to check if the logic/design is right.
I like to do a little bit of sound and general game feel early, that way I can get a genuine feel of it all shortly after prototyping. I can always mute the audio if I need to check if the audio is the only thing.
Mark has such energy at the beginning and then by the end you can feel the 'I'm finally done with this marathon' vibe, and honestly that's a state we can all sympathize with.
As a developer, and previously a tester, I noticed your plan didn't have any room for testing. And, yup, you need others to do the testing. As a developer it's impossible to imagine all the ways users/players will try/do stuff. The most surprising is my mother-in-law... the things she breaks is always stuff I never imagined a user would think of.
You sound hard on yourself near the end but really you still made the 30 days and the MVP even with the lower motivation and all the problems. There is a huge merit in that. Really cool to see your process and the video lays out it very nicely.
Back when I was in college, a software teacher taught us a valuable lesson/mantra that still rings true today: "For every hour of coding, you'll need 2 hours of bug fixing." with the note: don't think of this as a bad thing. It's just a thing that happens, especially when other people interact with what you made. So seeing your last week or so dedicated to bug fixing and optimization was kind of nice (and expected). :-)
30 days of development later, after taking public feedback... "And now it's... 2023, and I'm realizing that this game is never going to be 'done', per se, I'm simply going to have to choose when I'm going to 'ship it'."
My wife gives the exact same kind of feedback! It's great that you have someone who will be honest about the issues with your project. The good news is, for a small project, there are only so many bugs you can find before it's mostly done!
I knew that there was a problem when you showed your schedule and had all 30 days planned, I usually find that any project I try will take exactly twice as much time as I plan for. Great job on getting something done!
Working in linear order feels like a straightforward plan, but one that cheats yourself of the benefits that come from leaving your work at the rough draft stage and coming back to it with fresh eyes.
I've been making games for over 20 years and it's so easy to underestimate the weird fog of war that makes properly testing your own content incredibly tough.
Oh but you DIDN'T screw it up, Mark! An MVP for someone building their first game is a trial by fire! You did great. The whole idea is to learn not only what works within the game, but also how YOU can work to make it happen. Looking forward to trying it!
This is very relatable. My game has been "almost" live on Steam for like 6 months now. I keep cutting features/content and still finding myself overwhelmed with how much I have left to do to get to the acceptable quality level. Especially since my day job is as a programmer.
@@Krabbarazzi decided I wanted to get a full grasp of unity's 2d side scrolling tools so I started work on an incredibly simple project would use tutorials to get a grasp of what I wanted to do, then used documentation to answer anything not clear in the tutorial making sure I understood what was happening and why. hope that helps!
An ADHD pro tip is that we often don't like to do something, or even finish something that by all accounts is basically done, if it isn't perfect. The best solution in my experience has been dividing these into smaller tasks, this way perfection becomes a much smaller roadblock.
Some advise I have is not to start at level 1. Starting at a simple level is fine, like you said, making puzzles gave you ideas for more puzzles and mechanics. But make those first and only afterwards worry about introducing the mechanics, and thus making a level 1.
This is also how Mario games are made- only after you figure out what the minimum things needed to be introduced are and how exactly they work (adjusting jump or run values), you can introduce them
This is the same approach I take to writing stories. I like to write the main bulk of the story first so I know what the beginning needs to set up and introduce.
Oh my gosh this video hit home so hard when you talked about getting distracted from your project by life and losing all your momentum. I have been working on a fangame since 2019 and that really hit me after about a year of development... here's hoping this project will have a happy ending like yours did
Interesting to hear what Mark has to say about essentially living under self-imposed crunch - how it effects the way you work, priorities, etc. Gives you an understanding of how games are released in certain states, how the "day one patch" mentality has become so prevalent.
Man, it's kinda crazy to look back and see that you went from learning Unity all the way up to today, finishing your first MVP. That takes some serious dedication, especially with making videos on the side. You've done well to get this far, looking forward to the next video!
This is such great timing for me! In my level design class we are doing play tests today for a level we are making and have been talking about the importance of starting with small play tests early in development before slowly opening up to larger & larger audiences. I’m using a pre made engine for class but I’m still expecting to see some weird bugs and confusion from my classmates that I wasn’t expecting. I’ve been really enjoying this series and it’s interesting to view as a student studying game design, excited to see where this goes. Great video and have an awesome day!
The honesty is what I love the most about this series. I see myself in some of the experiences Mark recounts. It's the ugly parts of game dev and how it grinds up against life that I'm most looking forward to hearing.
when you say breaking the game in a way that only a child could, that seems really interesting, like puzzles could be made in a such a fashion that you need to think like a child to proceed
Great video! I'd say this challenge was a complete success -- the point of an MVP is not only to get to a product, but also to learn something about the risks and challenges involved with it. And learned stuff you did :D
Whiteboards are one of my favorite design tools! ❤You holding one, Mark, made me so nostalgic for in-person whiteboarding sessions with design, product, and engineering folks. Such a good way of quickly working through problems and calling out to-do's & action items.
This game reminds me a lot of an old XBox Live game called Roboblitz. In that, you played as a robot with a wheel, in a physics based puzzle game where you can pick up, throw, and join objects to pull them together.
Watching Mark slowly transition from game development critic/enthusiast to full on game developer is the coolest thing. Thanks for letting us watch your journey Mark, I'm learning a lot
Hey Mark! I am currently sudying GameEngineering and I wanted to say that I love your Videos and there is always so much to learn. I just now finished a Projekt where we had to make a small game and it kinda left me with motivation to try making other kinds of games (I will be participating in a game jam in February to see what I will be able to do). I hope you dont loose the motivation to make games entirely because sometimes a little break and coming back with new ideas is the best way.
work destroys the soul and makes it really hard to fulfill your creative urges, but it's not usually so literal an obstacle. the indie game company I work with usually hands things out to a small group to look at first for those initial tweaks, glad to hear they're doin' it right.
One of my favourite channels on TH-cam. So interesting, insightful, and filled with valuable knowledge about an industry I’ve adored since my early years in the 80s. Keep it up! You rock!
This is basically how Portal 1 became a thing, and the reason it's so critically acclaimed is because of the lack of filler- everything you do is the good part of the game
Thank you so much for doing this! Often times players interested in game design have a lot of misconceptions of the process. It's both easier and waaay harder than people think, and just like making TH-cam content you have to make yourself very vulnerable with putting it out there. One thing of note though Mark, you did not fail. This was one of the most successful projects I've seen and you did it while managing and producing for your honestly incredible channel.
You learnt and documented a very important lesson. I have seen plenty of indie devs with years of experience on TH-cam doing devlogs stretching over months, and only giving the game to someone after like 6 months of development and designing. You found out there were technical problems, the worst nightmare is to realize that the gameplay loop is not even fun. You’ve done way better than most, even with experience. Well done!
With just about any creative project you need to get it in other peoples hands. They are going to see so many things you will not. I am developing a TTRPG where you play as children with magic. One of my favorite quotes from a play tester about resolution mechanics "If I spray pudding at a fire someone set on a table the table is still covered in pudding no matter how well I did it." Despite the silliness of the statement this was something I desperately needed to hear and had to add a paragraph and rewrite a section of my game.
I really love how this started as a pretty normal development blog and then slowly turned into the madness that is giving your game to QA and having them break it just by looking at it. Really the best way to illustrate why playtesters are some of the most important people in the industry.
I seriously love these videos! It's just excellent to see how you've grown and learnt from trying to produce a game in such a short time! Amazing work, can't wait for the next one!
Sorry, but it makes me SO HAPPY to see your fits and starts and for you to be open and let people know (not only this vid, but your thrashing about action vs. puzzle). The reason is, a lot of people think making games is "easy" otherwise they wouldn't call us game developers "lazy" and have such hostility towards game makers. It's all very different, when you're looking at something from the outside (not that your analysis hasn't been mostly spot-on... otherwise I would've have subbed years ago). I think it helps for people to understand these things, so they can appreciate the games and the game makers more. Keep up the good work!
This game reminds me ALOT of an old mobile game I loved as a kid called "Hoggy". You were this purple blob going through puzzles much like these in which you could move left and right, but also reverse gravity going from floor to ceiling much like how the magnet works in this game. There were all sorts of great concepts in there and honestly it was one of the best mobile games every released. you should check it out
Mark, it takes a lot of bravery to put yourself on the line in such a honest and challenging way. I've always admired your content and analysis of games, but I think this series really got you over the edge for me, I'm now officially your fan. Godspeed!
I love the idea of making a puzzle game because seeing how other people can approach a puzzle in ways you never would’ve imagined sounds like a lot of fun and can probably produce even more ideas for puzzles in the future
Depending on how long you want to keep working on it, I'd say you also forgot to create documentation. That code that absorbed your life for a week is going to be completely gone from your brain in a few months, so it's really nice if there are some notes in there about what does what and why like this. Writing documentation is tedious and seemingly unrewarding so nobody likes doing it which is why it's so often neglected, but it's extremely important. And to those people who say "well my code is so clear it functions as its own documentation": No, it isn't and it doesn't.
I think the little character and pixel art all looks really cute and clean! I really like it! And I like puzzle games like this, so I'm excited to try it eventually. I'm cheering you on!
I've been working on a game on and off for a couple of months and I agree that you can really grind to a halt when you don't make it your singular focus. But life just gets in the way and I suppose I just have to put up with it. I'm really enjoying this series by the way!
My first game ever was for a GMTK challenge, and it’s made me want to do so much more. It’s great to see you struggling with the same problems I did, but obviously with a lot more pressure with so many fans. Thank you for making the stuff you make. It can’t be easy.
Cheating through puzzles is so much more fun and satisfying than solving them change my mind Honestly i like the puzzles that have a way to break through them, I'm not saying always but it really should be like this sometimes
I haven’t played the game, so take these notes with a grain of salt, but I can think of three ways that could improve the game. 1. Make it harder. I don’t just mean in the difficulty of the puzzles, I mean add more traps, spikes, enemies, pitfalls etc. to add some variety to the gameplay. 2. Give the robot a progression system. As the game progresses, a good idea could be to increase the robot’s abilities, which can make the game more entertaining and give you, as a creator, more options when it comes to level design. These abilities could be, for example, rocket boosters that provide a larger/higher jump, or a dash; something that can switch the gravity in the room; or maybe someway to increase/decrease the robot’s size. 3. Include a world editor. This could allow the game to flourish in the world of multiplayer gaming in a similar way to Mario Maker, giving it a longer lifespan and a larger reach.
I think you've totally nailed the project so far! Indie projects tend to have delays and having moments of zero motivation IS THE NORM. All that matters in the end is that you only choose projects you want to commit to and finish the damn thing!
Theres a lot of devlog videos in youtube, but that was by far one of the best ones. Focusing more on the journey than the actual game is way more entertaining and useful!
GOOD JOB DUDE! I'm no game designer, but I can totally relate to the dynamic of losing motivation mid way through a project. It can be very tempting to just throw in the towel and call it a day when interruptions and life get in the way. Glad your family helped you to preserve to the end. Keep up the good work!
I've been trying to do the same thing, but I'm also working full time and am trying to not neglect friends and family. The hardest part to me is the marketing.
If you want thousands of people to play it then the only really hope is that a content creator picks up the game for a while or you send it out to many of them.
Send a twitch donation message to someone with a link to a free demo of your game. Most streamers would give it a shot if you just give them $50 and ask nicely.
Need to play this demo 👀
:o
Unity in real???
:000
@@ouo5634 no its not its unity
This is awesome :-)
Find yourself someone that looks at you the way Mark looks at his whiteboard.
"I use it every day, it's the best thing ever."
"One of the best purchases of my entire life"
His computer, car, home etc: am I a joke to you?
Still one of the best purchases I've done. A whiteboard is so much.
Then he gets another one.
The best part of owning a whiteboard is buying markers for it and then giddily trying out all of the colors.
As a software engineer... Yeah... That's the release cycle: excitement, distraction, depression, hatred, resignation, release, relief.
Followed by panic, after the first angry bug reports come in.
I am missing the coffee binge and crippling alcoholism phase
This sounds like my kind of hell.
I find the polishing phase of development to be the most satisfying. You're already totally familiar with the code and it's quirks. Seeing your creation reach it's full potential is great.
after that may be: doom, cafe and hot fixing, blame,"fuk the shit mount just rewrite it"
Such a fantastic series, as someone who always has had ideas for games but none of the time/patience to learn a whole new skill, you’re doing it! Can’t wait to see where your development journey goes next!
I'll give you a 1-hour crash course on game maker if you'd like
Woah didn't expect to see you here. I hope you end up making a game later on!
I'd love to see Caleb try to make a game
Yo Joel! Love your videos.
Aye joel whatre you doing over here
"I had this problem and should really do X, but that was kinda hard so I cheated."
That's not cheating, that's game design. Not every problem needs a technical solution. Changing art, levels, design, etc. are all valid tools to solve any problem you might come across.
You don't need a bug-free perfectly simulated magnet. You need the *experience* of a bug-free perfectly simulated magnet. All the hacks and workarounds you used won't hurt the player if they go unnoticed.
Yep-the bush sprites in old 2d Mario games are just cloud sprites colored green and stuck halfway into the ground texture. Cheats and workarounds is game design!
That's how Mario got his mustache, after all.
Especially with the character animations, my reaction to every change that was being made was "That's so charming! That's so distinctive! Don't call that a cheat - it's better that way!"
Great case: portal 1.
@@TheLyricalCleric zyeah, and endstone in Minecraft craft is just cobblestone textured a weird yellow color.
I've been a professional software engineer for 22 years. You didn't screw anything up. Yeah, you broke your insane momentum that you had in the beginning, but that would have likely happened anyway somewhere down the line even if you didn't have to put it on pause. This is quite a polished MVP, particularly given your lack of knowledge and expertise! You made a playable game in 30 days worth of effort. That's awesome!
Yeah he's actually really good at this lol almost like he's studied game design
That Flappy Bird joke made me laugh a lot harder than it should've. Really came out of nowhere 😂
Same
I cracked up, it was brilliant
I was thinking Mario but I don't think it was a joke
Yeah, that was clever af.
The kind of joke that, even when you're told it's gonna happen, you don't expect it to happen.
Both times I've participated in a game jam, the process has gone like this:
- Brainstorm and plan for a couple hours, and come up with an idea that I think is 100% doable.
- Cut planning short because I'm anxious to start developing.
- Get 30% to 50% of the project done before realizing its *not* doable, and I'm running out of time.
- Scrap the project and try to put the leftover broken pieces together into a new much simpler game.
Both times I've finished the jam with a game to show for it, but the end product is radically different from my original idea.
Same thing
I usually lose motivation at step 3. I think I haven’t entered anything into the majority of jams I try and participate in.
@@Tustin2121 It's tough. The second time I almost gave up. But I pushed through for my team; I probably would have given up if I was solo. Then I was so embarrassed by the end product that I almost didn't submit it. But during judging, player reactions were kind and supportive, and that made me feel better. The game's overall rating was pretty bad in the end though, lol. My team and I did much better the first time before that though; we got something like 160th place in the Ludum Dare, which I thought was pretty good for a first jam.
I'm hoping third time's a charm.
Having quite a few game jams now it's great realising your own work speed and skill, especially if you can get a regular group to do them with.
Me and my dev friends are pretty comfortable with our skills now and can plan out a game pretty quickly, dodging most traps that would either take too much time or break easily.
"A grey sleepy magnet that's attracted to nothing."
I feel called out by this line!
All the aros in the comments, rendezvous at this location
we do rollcall, ill start, here!
Meeee
zzzz
_someone says something that's clearly bad or unappealing_
"OMg that's SOOO me!"
Hey man, you just learned what it feels to be an indie game developer. The hard part is not code, art, gameplay or level design... the hard part is keep the momentum going.
This comment reminded me that the developer of Cave Story took 6 years to make it. They were still working a full time job and took what time they could between 1998-2004 to eventually get the game out there.
This comment hits hard..
and marketing :s
@@stevencraeynest7729 Yeah, and luckily one of the things Mark doesn't have to worry as much about as us average devs. The most painful part is when you release your game and only 12 people plays it, 1 guy hates it, 1 guy says meh, and 10 people doesn't leave any feedback
@@sephypantsuoh god that sounds like a nightmare. That truly sounds like the hardest part to deal with.
"[In 1949,] as soon as we started programming, we found to our surprise that it wasn't as easy to get programs right as we had thought. Debugging had to be discovered. I can remember the exact instant when I realised that a large part of my life from then on was going to be spent in finding mistakes in my own programs." - Maurice Wilkes
If only that’s what we’re told when we first started game dev.
I know how you feel, Mark. I also always lose my game design momentum whenever I have to do unnecessary stuff like... that kind of boring work that pays my bills. Nice video, as always!
Very interesting journey, the final project looks great and has some very interesting mechanics, your massive game design experience really helped.
It is definitely an excellent MVP, much better than my first games, so I would definitely consider this experiment a massive success!
Regarding the issue of losing momentum, my advice would be to work on the game every day, even if for just 1 hour.
Stopping completely for several days or weeks does cause a massive penalty like you experienced, by the time you get back it takes you at least one full day to remember how everything works.
Working on it every single day (no matter how little) greatly helps in reducing that penalty.
So congrats on a successful challenge!
Yo, its the channel from the ads....
Why did the monkey cross the road?
"To reach the magnet!"
@@katisteven3642 A "zero day" in computer security is a vulnerability (=a way to hack into the system) that's been known by the developer for 0 days. Most vulnerabilities are known and get patched, but attackers (=hackers) can still get into a system using old vulnerabilities if that system hasn't been updated in a while. If an attacker finds a vulnerability that nobody else knows of it's a 0 day, and they are basically guaranteed that the attack will succeed. Because of this, people that find 0 days usually don't use them themselves. A lot of people pay a lot of money for 0 days. Both the software developers, the attackers, and the in-betweens (like law enforcement). Everybody wants to be the first one to get their hands on them. Scary stuff!
@@AntonLejon Interesting Stuff! Thanks for sharing!
@@AntonLejon I always thought zero day meant that the bug had been there since day 0 (indexed from 0 of course since we're talking about programmers). Thank you for sharing the information but I have to say I prefer my definition. It feels a bit to me like in The Martian when at one point the story goes back all the way to the start to explain a critical bug that goes unnoticed which much later turns into a disaster.
Some great advice I heard for planning out a game project is:
- Make an honest estimate for how long each feature/level will take to implement
- Double the amount of time you thought
- If you've never done that specific thing before, triple it instead
It seems drastic but you're gonna need a lot more time than you think
if you've never done that specific thing before, you may have a very bad time planning the time required, and you may quintuple it or more :D
Yeah, you really need to keep in mind *Hofstadter's Law:*
"It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's Law."
Last one to add, you'll still overshoot it
My advice based on doing entrepreneurship for last 7 years is aim for what's realistic, but expect to overshoot it by 30%
I'm a software tester, and I must say, you've learned the lesson of the last week, that many (huge) companies didn't yet :) It is said that fixing bugs during development is 90% cheaper than in production (considering every aspect of a release cycle and user impact), so your wife put you on the right path with her insight
I think you meant 90% more expensive
@@madboson1449 True. I wanted to write that in DEVELOPMENT it is 90% cheaper than in production. It was real late
@@nohrjinn Had you caught that in writing, it would have cost 90% less to correct :P
As a game designer, my reaction to your schedule reveal went like...
1. Oh nice he's planning out his days
2. Ehh you generally shouldn't start with level 1, you don't know your game well enough until you've made "regular" levels
3. LOL there's absolutely no way 3 days is enough polish time
Overall great series so far! :)
Trying to make an MVP in a short time frame is both one of the hardest but one of the best things you can do as a game designer trying to learn. Its something every beginner does, coming up with grand ideas for massive systems. Its much more important to actually make something that can be turned into an .exe file and uploaded to itch.
Very much looking forward to the video, your channel has taught me so much and inspired my game dev journey more than any other over the last year and a half.
I think this is a great way of practice everything you're trying to learn, because you can put an Start and a viable goal to reach the end, and consider the project finished. I'm doing this with Pixel art right now and seeing all the things I've done just keep me motivated.
We actually did a video about building a quality MVP on a tight time budget for the GMTK 2020 Game Jam!
Totally true that building a small game in a small timeframe is one of the best things to do as a game designer. Cut, cut, and focus until you have something simple that people can play.
Yep. Ultimately, his result was outstanding considering his experience and the time frame. I did not put as much polish into the first thing I released to the public. (although I did make a nicer menu :p )
And yeah, it is one the best challenges. It can absolutely sap all the energy out of you, so I would honestly recommend a shorter time frame and smaller scope. But everyone should try it.
what's a MVP?
@@DxMySongxD minimum viable product
Context switching (e.g between the mvp and your youtube vids) is always killer to motivation. For people who have day jobs and are doing this in spare time, best thing is the “no 0% days” mantra. Even if you make a small tweak or just a design on paper, it keeps the momentum going forward and helps with motivation.
thanks for advice, ill try applying it to my stuff
Yeah, that "no 0% days" is the same as the five-minute rule for any larger project. Spend five minutes every day on the project. Do more if you feel like it, but if you've done five minutes, you've done good. If you think that you only need to do five minutes of work and then you're done, it's far easier to start than it is if you think you need to work an hour or more. Even if you end up working several hours after the first five minutes.
Another method is keeping a schedule. Have some time set aside for videos, some time for game dev, and a bunch of time that's free to spend on what you feel is necessary. That can be done on a daily or weekly basis, depending on preference.
Yeah no more 0 days kept going me.. I haven't finished a project because I kept switching but i did keep learning skills for the future lol.
Hahah man this is just straight up good life advice for every goal 😂 love it
Its certainly been the best way for me to push through any project, especially when you get to the “I hate this” stage 😂 You’ll often the “5 minutes” you spend on something becomes 30mins to an hour. Its always starting thats the hardest part, once you get going it becomes easier :)
What makes this series so effective for me is something carried over from the rest of the channel: the tone is engagingly conversational while somehow being more concise and chock-full of insight than most.
This might sound weird but, as someone who's followed you for years now, I am so damn proud of you. This is phenomenal. ESPECIALLY for an MVP.
As a regular software developer I had to grin at several parts in the video especially about the whiteboard and how others can completely wreck software. Also I instantly knew what was missing from that planned schedule. I'm glad that you finished it and I look forward to seeing it.
As a game designer in AAA myself, who's been following you for years, let me say this... Mark, this series is awesome!
And like so many others in the comments, I am proud of you. On your own, you've discovered what goes behind the scenes of pretty much every single game you've ever played. So far you've experienced having gone in the wrong direction multiple times, making the mistake of not prototyping first, the need for Agile planning, production fatigue, feature creep, radical re-scope and learned to not underestimate the power of feedback and playtesting.
That said, I hope this helps a lot of people get some idea about what developing a game is like. And still make them want to do it themselves. The MVP looks amazing, especially since you did it in 30 (non-consecutive) days. This is an achievement you should be proud of. Thank you for doing what you do and stay safe! :)
I’m curious, what company do you work in? And what game are you working on?
I want to get in game development but I also got stuck at the blueprint system in Unreal lol.
"On your own..." well he wasn't completely figuring it out on his own. He did research, he interviewed. But I know what you meant.
Over time, I'm learning that project management skills are invaluable in just about any line of work, but especially ones like this where it's really easy for a mistake to hide in plain sight, really hard to clearly define the finished product without iterating very cautiously, and in general, a PITB to keep on track.
I love how relatable all of these points are to other indie developers. I felt the pain in "and he found... even more bugs," and "I lost all that momentum" in so many ways.
Loved the video! I'd actually caution against adding your sound effects early. Yes, sound effects improve your game drastically but you want a solid foundation first. If you can get an action or event to feel impactful *without* sound then it'll feel amazing *with* sound. Add the sound early and all your impact moments might just feel "good enough." Games gotta get done though, so I wouldn't begrudge anyone for doing sounds early.
That's a clever point
While that's worthwhile advice, there's nothing too heinous about having placeholder effects at minimum.
It's funny because Mark is known for his video on design accessibility, and the easiest way to test how a game feels for deaf and HoH people is to mute the sound.
But you need the place holders, you don't want to break everything because you forgot where the sound will go.
And you may not want to put the sound inside the game but you may want to start to look for (or create) sounds to help you to find the feeling you want for the game.
Sounds needs to go side by side with all the designs, but you need to turn off sometimes to focus on something.
For example, you don't need art to check if the logic/design is right.
I like to do a little bit of sound and general game feel early, that way I can get a genuine feel of it all shortly after prototyping. I can always mute the audio if I need to check if the audio is the only thing.
Mark has such energy at the beginning and then by the end you can feel the 'I'm finally done with this marathon' vibe, and honestly that's a state we can all sympathize with.
As a developer, and previously a tester, I noticed your plan didn't have any room for testing. And, yup, you need others to do the testing. As a developer it's impossible to imagine all the ways users/players will try/do stuff. The most surprising is my mother-in-law... the things she breaks is always stuff I never imagined a user would think of.
It's easy to miss the other 90% of the work that comes after the first 90%.
Recent video recounted a game dev saying, something like once you've finished 90% of your game, it is time to start the second 90%
When a videogame is 180% done, meaning video games are only 5/9 efficient.
seems like this series is gonna completely tear you down as a person before the end but that's how you'll know you've made something worth playing.
You sound hard on yourself near the end but really you still made the 30 days and the MVP even with the lower motivation and all the problems. There is a huge merit in that. Really cool to see your process and the video lays out it very nicely.
"Everything is more tedious and time consuming than it should be"
Unfortunately, yes. Congrats! That's literally all of Game Dev
Back when I was in college, a software teacher taught us a valuable lesson/mantra that still rings true today: "For every hour of coding, you'll need 2 hours of bug fixing." with the note: don't think of this as a bad thing. It's just a thing that happens, especially when other people interact with what you made.
So seeing your last week or so dedicated to bug fixing and optimization was kind of nice (and expected). :-)
30 days of development later, after taking public feedback...
"And now it's... 2023, and I'm realizing that this game is never going to be 'done', per se, I'm simply going to have to choose when I'm going to 'ship it'."
Playtesting is something that's terribly undervalued, so thanks for shining a light on it a bit!
Polishing in general is a very valuable use of time in everything. People notice when you take care (or rather, when you don't).
Calling it now, theme for this year’s GMTK game Jam is going to be magnets or distractions
Probably distractions over magnets. It's a bit more broad.
The theme for the 2022 GMTK Game Jam is
whiteboards
Attraction?
My wife gives the exact same kind of feedback! It's great that you have someone who will be honest about the issues with your project. The good news is, for a small project, there are only so many bugs you can find before it's mostly done!
I knew that there was a problem when you showed your schedule and had all 30 days planned, I usually find that any project I try will take exactly twice as much time as I plan for. Great job on getting something done!
Working in linear order feels like a straightforward plan, but one that cheats yourself of the benefits that come from leaving your work at the rough draft stage and coming back to it with fresh eyes.
I've been making games for over 20 years and it's so easy to underestimate the weird fog of war that makes properly testing your own content incredibly tough.
Oh but you DIDN'T screw it up, Mark! An MVP for someone building their first game is a trial by fire! You did great. The whole idea is to learn not only what works within the game, but also how YOU can work to make it happen. Looking forward to trying it!
This is very relatable. My game has been "almost" live on Steam for like 6 months now. I keep cutting features/content and still finding myself overwhelmed with how much I have left to do to get to the acceptable quality level. Especially since my day job is as a programmer.
this series honestly saved me, I've been on such a slump with game development learning, practicing, but this series re-ignited my desire to learn
So how do you learn? Hopefully you can inspire me!
@@Krabbarazzi decided I wanted to get a full grasp of unity's 2d side scrolling tools so I started work on an incredibly simple project would use tutorials to get a grasp of what I wanted to do, then used documentation to answer anything not clear in the tutorial making sure I understood what was happening and why.
hope that helps!
The wheel may be a simple solution, but I really like it! You don’t see a lot of robots with wheels anymore.
Rocket: Robot on Wheels, anyone?
The first thing I thought of when I saw it was Robot Wants It All
Claptrap?
@@Reubs1 And Mettaton.
Fallout: New Vegas?
An ADHD pro tip is that we often don't like to do something, or even finish something that by all accounts is basically done, if it isn't perfect. The best solution in my experience has been dividing these into smaller tasks, this way perfection becomes a much smaller roadblock.
I need to remember this.
its not just yall with adhd i have this same issue
This guys videos are so easy to watch like every time one comes out you know I’m watching it. His voice is so soothing
In this episode, Mark Learns why QA teams need to stop getting shafted so hard by other developers and should never be ignored.
Every developer I know loves the QA team. They are so essential! It's the company heads that often don't appreciate them.
@@zeedar412 Company developers care about the game. Company heads care about profit.
Some advise I have is not to start at level 1. Starting at a simple level is fine, like you said, making puzzles gave you ideas for more puzzles and mechanics. But make those first and only afterwards worry about introducing the mechanics, and thus making a level 1.
This is also how Mario games are made- only after you figure out what the minimum things needed to be introduced are and how exactly they work (adjusting jump or run values), you can introduce them
This is the same approach I take to writing stories. I like to write the main bulk of the story first so I know what the beginning needs to set up and introduce.
Oh my gosh this video hit home so hard when you talked about getting distracted from your project by life and losing all your momentum. I have been working on a fangame since 2019 and that really hit me after about a year of development... here's hoping this project will have a happy ending like yours did
This was great, the glitches had me cracking up. Always love when you branch out with different series.
You learned one of the most important game dev lessons early on: Cheat wherever possible. Nobody will notice. Maybe.
Interesting to hear what Mark has to say about essentially living under self-imposed crunch - how it effects the way you work, priorities, etc.
Gives you an understanding of how games are released in certain states, how the "day one patch" mentality has become so prevalent.
Now that Mark got some real dev experience, I'm excited to see how more insightful his next videos are.
Man, it's kinda crazy to look back and see that you went from learning Unity all the way up to today, finishing your first MVP. That takes some serious dedication, especially with making videos on the side. You've done well to get this far, looking forward to the next video!
This is such great timing for me! In my level design class we are doing play tests today for a level we are making and have been talking about the importance of starting with small play tests early in development before slowly opening up to larger & larger audiences. I’m using a pre made engine for class but I’m still expecting to see some weird bugs and confusion from my classmates that I wasn’t expecting. I’ve been really enjoying this series and it’s interesting to view as a student studying game design, excited to see where this goes. Great video and have an awesome day!
Your Pixel art is amazing, super goated… WHAT. Great video!
The honesty is what I love the most about this series. I see myself in some of the experiences Mark recounts. It's the ugly parts of game dev and how it grinds up against life that I'm most looking forward to hearing.
@19:51 It's so great watching you discover something it's taken the games industry 40 years to unlearn.
One thing I learned as a QA tester is, everyone on the team always underestimates the amount of bugs you'll have to fix even for something simple.
You did it!
I like the camera shadows on the whiteboard photos.
when you say breaking the game in a way that only a child could, that seems really interesting, like puzzles could be made in a such a fashion that you need to think like a child to proceed
Yeah I know there's probably no footage but I'd love to see a child wrecking his shit lmao
Great video! I'd say this challenge was a complete success -- the point of an MVP is not only to get to a product, but also to learn something about the risks and challenges involved with it. And learned stuff you did :D
Whiteboards are one of my favorite design tools! ❤You holding one, Mark, made me so nostalgic for in-person whiteboarding sessions with design, product, and engineering folks. Such a good way of quickly working through problems and calling out to-do's & action items.
This game reminds me a lot of an old XBox Live game called Roboblitz. In that, you played as a robot with a wheel, in a physics based puzzle game where you can pick up, throw, and join objects to pull them together.
great video! Nice to see how the game + your vision evolves along with time. It gives us an insider view to game development, highly precious thanks!
@@MateusAntonioBittencourt Tibo's a Patron - they get to watch videos early :D
@@GMTK Can u make it into a series pls!
Watching Mark slowly transition from game development critic/enthusiast to full on game developer is the coolest thing. Thanks for letting us watch your journey Mark, I'm learning a lot
Hey Mark! I am currently sudying GameEngineering and I wanted to say that I love your Videos and there is always so much to learn. I just now finished a Projekt where we had to make a small game and it kinda left me with motivation to try making other kinds of games (I will be participating in a game jam in February to see what I will be able to do). I hope you dont loose the motivation to make games entirely because sometimes a little break and coming back with new ideas is the best way.
work destroys the soul and makes it really hard to fulfill your creative urges, but it's not usually so literal an obstacle.
the indie game company I work with usually hands things out to a small group to look at first for those initial tweaks, glad to hear they're doin' it right.
Great job on expressing your progress and struggles. I hope you still feel accomplished for getting this far!
One of my favourite channels on TH-cam. So interesting, insightful, and filled with valuable knowledge about an industry I’ve adored since my early years in the 80s. Keep it up! You rock!
This is basically how Portal 1 became a thing, and the reason it's so critically acclaimed is because of the lack of filler- everything you do is the good part of the game
I know I'm meant to focus on the game journey, but the design on the "Day X/30" looks incredible!
I absolutely love the look!
big fan of this series, excited to see the finale(?). More game analyst youtubers should follow your footsteps!
I hope it’s not the finale
Thank you so much for doing this! Often times players interested in game design have a lot of misconceptions of the process. It's both easier and waaay harder than people think, and just like making TH-cam content you have to make yourself very vulnerable with putting it out there.
One thing of note though Mark, you did not fail. This was one of the most successful projects I've seen and you did it while managing and producing for your honestly incredible channel.
19:00 I can *feel* the pain here, as every new person to touch things causes it to come apart in new and 'exciting' ways.
You learnt and documented a very important lesson. I have seen plenty of indie devs with years of experience on TH-cam doing devlogs stretching over months, and only giving the game to someone after like 6 months of development and designing. You found out there were technical problems, the worst nightmare is to realize that the gameplay loop is not even fun.
You’ve done way better than most, even with experience. Well done!
With just about any creative project you need to get it in other peoples hands. They are going to see so many things you will not. I am developing a TTRPG where you play as children with magic. One of my favorite quotes from a play tester about resolution mechanics "If I spray pudding at a fire someone set on a table the table is still covered in pudding no matter how well I did it." Despite the silliness of the statement this was something I desperately needed to hear and had to add a paragraph and rewrite a section of my game.
I really love how this started as a pretty normal development blog and then slowly turned into the madness that is giving your game to QA and having them break it just by looking at it. Really the best way to illustrate why playtesters are some of the most important people in the industry.
I hope you get on developing different games and explore other stuff to learn more
I seriously love these videos! It's just excellent to see how you've grown and learnt from trying to produce a game in such a short time! Amazing work, can't wait for the next one!
I can’t imagine how much of a challenge for one man to make a new game from scratch. Thank you for sharing the project!
Sorry, but it makes me SO HAPPY to see your fits and starts and for you to be open and let people know (not only this vid, but your thrashing about action vs. puzzle). The reason is, a lot of people think making games is "easy" otherwise they wouldn't call us game developers "lazy" and have such hostility towards game makers. It's all very different, when you're looking at something from the outside (not that your analysis hasn't been mostly spot-on... otherwise I would've have subbed years ago). I think it helps for people to understand these things, so they can appreciate the games and the game makers more. Keep up the good work!
This game reminds me ALOT of an old mobile game I loved as a kid called "Hoggy". You were this purple blob going through puzzles much like these in which you could move left and right, but also reverse gravity going from floor to ceiling much like how the magnet works in this game. There were all sorts of great concepts in there and honestly it was one of the best mobile games every released. you should check it out
Mark, it takes a lot of bravery to put yourself on the line in such a honest and challenging way.
I've always admired your content and analysis of games, but I think this series really got you over the edge for me, I'm now officially your fan.
Godspeed!
We developers never truly “complete“ games, we abandon them.
Ive been making stuff in unity for three years. I have finished one project
My legal obligations cease after 18 years.
Truly appreciate you showing this journey so openly, learned a lot and just loved the ride so far and your way of telling it!
There’s a reason that it’s called beta-testing: you should have alpha testers before you get to that stage.
I love the idea of making a puzzle game because seeing how other people can approach a puzzle in ways you never would’ve imagined sounds like a lot of fun and can probably produce even more ideas for puzzles in the future
Depending on how long you want to keep working on it, I'd say you also forgot to create documentation. That code that absorbed your life for a week is going to be completely gone from your brain in a few months, so it's really nice if there are some notes in there about what does what and why like this.
Writing documentation is tedious and seemingly unrewarding so nobody likes doing it which is why it's so often neglected, but it's extremely important.
And to those people who say "well my code is so clear it functions as its own documentation": No, it isn't and it doesn't.
I think the little character and pixel art all looks really cute and clean! I really like it! And I like puzzle games like this, so I'm excited to try it eventually. I'm cheering you on!
I've been working on a game on and off for a couple of months and I agree that you can really grind to a halt when you don't make it your singular focus.
But life just gets in the way and I suppose I just have to put up with it. I'm really enjoying this series by the way!
Thanks it is a good thing to listen to when doing stuff and when make your game 🎯. And thanks for the invise it help so much thanks
In which GMTK discovers how incredibly valuable QA is. :)
A great episode! You told the story in an entertaining way.
My first game ever was for a GMTK challenge, and it’s made me want to do so much more. It’s great to see you struggling with the same problems I did, but obviously with a lot more pressure with so many fans. Thank you for making the stuff you make. It can’t be easy.
Cheating through puzzles is so much more fun and satisfying than solving them
change my mind
Honestly i like the puzzles that have a way to break through them, I'm not saying always but it really should be like this sometimes
One of the strongest aspects in BotW.
I haven’t played the game, so take these notes with a grain of salt, but I can think of three ways that could improve the game.
1. Make it harder. I don’t just mean in the difficulty of the puzzles, I mean add more traps, spikes, enemies, pitfalls etc. to add some variety to the gameplay.
2. Give the robot a progression system. As the game progresses, a good idea could be to increase the robot’s abilities, which can make the game more entertaining and give you, as a creator, more options when it comes to level design. These abilities could be, for example, rocket boosters that provide a larger/higher jump, or a dash; something that can switch the gravity in the room; or maybe someway to increase/decrease the robot’s size.
3. Include a world editor. This could allow the game to flourish in the world of multiplayer gaming in a similar way to Mario Maker, giving it a longer lifespan and a larger reach.
Game dev: I know no fear
But that thing
*bug testing and fixing
It scares me
it ends up taking 3x longer than coding in my case, since i mostly have no idea what im doing
Congratualtions ! You made it ! You're an inspiration for people who can't manage to get through a project, thank you for your advices and this serie.
I believe this series is going to be one of the greatest arguments in favour of Producers.
I think you've totally nailed the project so far! Indie projects tend to have delays and having moments of zero motivation IS THE NORM. All that matters in the end is that you only choose projects you want to commit to and finish the damn thing!
Theres a lot of devlog videos in youtube, but that was by far one of the best ones. Focusing more on the journey than the actual game is way more entertaining and useful!
GOOD JOB DUDE! I'm no game designer, but I can totally relate to the dynamic of losing motivation mid way through a project. It can be very tempting to just throw in the towel and call it a day when interruptions and life get in the way. Glad your family helped you to preserve to the end. Keep up the good work!
I've been trying to do the same thing, but I'm also working full time and am trying to not neglect friends and family. The hardest part to me is the marketing.
If you want thousands of people to play it then the only really hope is that a content creator picks up the game for a while or you send it out to many of them.
Send a twitch donation message to someone with a link to a free demo of your game. Most streamers would give it a shot if you just give them $50 and ask nicely.