its quite simple, here in belgium: - the french speaking socialists steal from the homeless - the dutch speaking socialists are quite racist - the green party are against regulating animal butchering - the dutch and french nationalists want to be in different nations - the more extreme dutch nationalists are terrible at cooperating with the regular nationalists in order to... i think they also want to leave the EU? i have no idea - i have no idea what the communists want to do, they keep talking about paying everyone the same and palestine, are we seizing the means of production? are we invading israel? i don't know - the wallonians hate the flemish because the flemish hate the french speakers for oppressing them, all the while being bankrolled by the flemish due to their generation spanning incompetence and being willfully ignorant that the only reason they are french speakers themselves is because they were also oppressed by the french speaking bruxelles in the same way the flemish were - i'm serious, the socialists stole from the homeless
I followed the details for a long time watching the VRT and used to have a reasonable grasp on the whole thing. It is the best soap opera on TV. But since 2016 British politics has been quite good as well.
@MettMagier Because no one could agree on how exactly it should be. It's actually in the constitution already that the federal government, rather than being the default, will only have competences laid out in a Special Law - that will probably never get passed or even voted on.
@@MettMagier OOF thats an explanation that will require a 100page essay. Its a mix of responsebilities conerncing provinces, the federal state, the communial principles, the contrast in economic visions because of the economic disparity between Wallony and Flanders. I mean, if we cant already agree in just forming a goverment, what makes you think we'll be able to overhaul our federal system wich would take an even greater effort in agreeing with eachother? :D
@@MettMagier We revise the constitution every 10 or so years and there's always at least one party (usually NVA) who always insist it has been too long.
Belgium functions best when the government doesn't. Really, it gives us some peace of mind knowing there will be no sudden change of taxes or benefits (in all directions).
Northern Ireland have the record, the Guinness book of records don’t include it, but why the hell is the Guinness book of records a source in a politics news video
The record is a long way and I don't think it will be broken. This formation still has a shot of happening, and if it doesn't, there are some other realistic ways to form a gouverment.
I get why their former government is called a Vivaldi. Cause it takes at least Four Seasons to cobble it together, with a high likelyhood it will only last Four Seasons
@@Sephiroth517it's because of the colors of the governing parties. You had the liberals (blue), the greens (green), the socialists (red), and the christians (orange). The colors of the 4 seasons. Likewise in the flemish part it's gonna be called the rocket popsicle government because of the socialists (red), the christians (orange), and the nationalists (yellow) as these are the colors of a typical rocket popsicle in Belgium.
It´s not necessarily a bad thing either, if things just chug on as they are and nobody does any radical lurches, then that´s preferable to having a hard right govt in my view.
@@Minimmalmythicistidk if “better no government than one I politically disagree with” is the stunning endorsement you think it is. It’s literally the opposite of the foundational concepts of democracy.
5:12 Prévot hasn't actually been appointed as the lead negotiator, he's been appointed as conciliator and is meant to resolve the disputes between the parties so that De Wever can take up his role as "Formateur" again
In the mean time Belgiums debt burden is totally out of control. But that is ok. At least the enormous army of best paid politicians are enriching themselves with those debts.
As another Belgian, this situation angers and frustrates me. Especially Bouchez's childish behavior. The longer it takes to form a government, the longer we have a caretaker government (read: not much gets accomplished + less time left to get shit done before parties go into election mode again) while we have major (fiscal and other) challenges to tackle.
cordon sanitaire is the origin of this shit. how long are we tolerating that? let the far right in governement for 4 years and people will realise that t hey are also only there to fill their own pockets.
Correction: Belgium can't form a federal government. We have 5 functional governments (Flemish (region + language combined), Walloon region, Brussels region, French language and German language) and 1 disfunctional federal government.
@@hydrocharis1 Not really. The Flemish government formation is going quite well, actually. Initially, there was some fuss due the socialdemocrats playing hard to get, but so far it has been smooth sailing. Besides, on the federal level, the conflict is between Vooruit and MR, not Vooruit and NVA. Brussels, on the other hand, has the potential to be more problematic than the federal gov. formation, not to mention the fact that their finances are looking the worst of all.
It's especially embarrassing after they first declared it would be easy, and they would have a government by the flemish or national holiday (both in July).
Belgium really should split up. What do you think about that? From the outside it seems the country has zero identity, zero history with big tensions. There really is nothing holding the country together in my view. Why have it then?
As you say it yourself 'from the outside'. If you live in Belgium (at least where i live) most people don't want to break up bc they have no problem with each other or that it will not change anything. The politics will still be as they are now and there wouldn't be any identity eather bc there is just so much difference in regions. I think its better to stay together and try to fix the government problem. Also the flemisch against walloon thing doesn't really exist that much anymore i think, the attention is more focused on mass immigration these days.@@armingleiner5292
@@armingleiner5292 no, we shouldn’t split up. It’s only the politicians that don’t get along. We Belgians (French, Dutch & German speaking Belgians) get along perfectly. Also it’s impossible to split, because Brussels is literally situated in the Flemish part (but majority speaks french)
As a belgian the only mistake i noticed is that De Wevers succesor Prevot his role is not to negotiate but to mediate. One thing that I think shouldd've been added: You briefly mentioned mayoral elections on october the 13th but these elections are in a few weeks so every compromise a governing party makes can be hold against them in the next elections. Some other things that can be added: - Since you translated the NVA, CD&V and MR you might just translate Vooruit to Forward. - These 5 parties not only form a federal majority but also a Flemish and Walloon majority. MR and Les Engagees have already formed a governement and NVA, CDV and Vooruit are discussing a Flemish governement. This would work way better then the last five years where NVA worked with CDV on regional level but was in opposition to CDV on federal level. - It's not only Georges Louis Bouchez being pro-rich that caused some problems but also the way he somewhat childishly reacted to it. - The party Vooruit also has some problems with going in the Arizona-coalition since it will be the only left party in a centre-right governement. The Walloon Socialists, the commnunists and the socialist union ABVV have all said that Vooruit should step out of the negotiations. If that happenes the only other option would be the Flemish Liberals Open-VLD. But they dicided to go in the opposition since they lost a lot of seats and try to renew their party. Another problem is that with Open-VLD there won't be a Flemish majority, something Bart De Wever has always pledged for and critised in the previous governement. Overall these 5 parties know that there isn't a better alternative and that they have to work together.
Thank you very much for your taking the time to develop things further, as it can indeed be quite confusing for non-Belgian people (heck! even we Belgians have trouble to understand it...). The only thing I would add is that MR can't be quite described as center-right, as they are definitely a traditional right wing party (just like Open VLD).
I also think it is quite dramatic to state that confederalists want 'more power for flanders', as if they want flanders to take power over the whole country. Made me giggle a little tho cause that might be BDW's wet dream
As a belgian i could not have said it any better. They don't care about their citizens. Only their own paycheck is important. And no matter what party wins, nothing will change. In fact, things only got worse over time.
Fun fact: government formation in Belgium these days is conditional on being able to find a silly name for the coalition: Arizona now, Vivaldi previously!
How is it Arizona tho? You can clearly see at 2:38 that the light blue party (les engagé?) is nowhere in the Arizona flag (unless I'm completely blind, which is certainly a possibility).
@@novedad4468it is a fair remark but the party was previously called cdh and shared the colour orange with their sister party cd&v (Both are christian democratic).
As a Dutch person from the Netherlands I don’t understand Belgian politics at all, except for one thing. “It’s already the fault of the Sossen”. Don’t ask me what a “Sossen” is though!
"sossen" is the abbreviation for "socialists", referring to PS and Vooruit, the socialist parties, who are seen as the enemy of the N-VA. "sossen" is de afkorting van "socialisten", verwijzend naar PS en Vooruit, de socialistische partijen, die worden gezien als de aartsvijand van de N-VA.
I've once heard a Belgian man joking that Belgium was both a 'democratic bureaucracy and an anarchist state at the same time.' now that I've lived in Belgium for five years now, I fully understand what he mend.
@TheGahta But Belgian already have many (true) stereotypes. They eat a lot of chocolate. They drink a lot of beer. They eat a lot of fries... You know what, Belgians like to eat.
@kianlakchi7182 Belgians maybe don't eat that many of waffles, but we sure have a lot of waffle variants, with the Brussels waffles and Liège waffles being the two most well known. With Belgian waffles which Americans like to eat being a modified, more simple version of the Brussels waffles if I'm not mistaken.
Not Belgian or thought on it too deeply. What do you think the consequnces would be for a law that dissolves Parliament if there is no non-caretaker PM for 730days or 2years, and therefore fresh elections. Do you think it’d incentivise forming a coallition. Or do you think it’d make separatists just hold our forever hoping a never ending election furthers national dissolution. ?
Hello from Belgium. I'd not worry too much at this stage. We've faced much worse political crisis and technically the country runs quite well even for years without a fully functional federal govt. As you mentionned many subjects are managed at regions and communities and the previeous federal govt remains active with limited powers in "affaires courantes". I'd actually wory much more about the formation of a coalition in France. We in Belgium have a long history of forming coalition govts and even if it's not that easy we know it finally works. The French try to name the prime minister before knowing what the coalition govt will do and that is quite more risky.
That kind of standstill is very usual in Belgian government formation process (even when it's swift, like in 2014). It is called the "Dramatization phase", allowing some parties to put loads of pressure on their partners to get what they want or just show their electors they did everything they could to achieve what they voted for...
As a Belgian, I love my country and I've been afraid for 15 years that it would split in two because of the political differences between the two main regions, which mean that they never agree. And then I tell myself that Belgian politics is so great that even when they finally want to cut Belgium in two, they won't be able to agree on how to do it and will give up.
I have to say, stellar job of explaining this in a concise way. Belgium's politics are tricky to represent well and y'all did a great job. Congratulations also for pronouncing the names right!
Good analysis. As I mentioned the last time (2020), the main reason the national level negotiations drag on is that most issues that matter for voters are managed by the regions which is why regional government negotiations rarely take very long.
Belgian here. There is a simple reason that explains a lot (not everything). Too many people vote for parties like Vlaams Belang or PVDA/PTB because they are fed up with the system that is "not listening to them" so they vote for anti-system parties with whom it is obvious the other parties won't work together since their proposals are too unrealistic or populistic. So more parties are needed to form a coalition goverment. For example: Vooruit is the only left wing party in a propossed Arizona coalition while other parties are centre-right or right just to get a workable majority. And they can expect heavy opposition from their sister party PS, the green parties and the communists. While on the other hand MR and N-VA agree on economic matters, but not on the fact if more needs to be done on the federal level or the regional level. If fewer parties would be needed to form a goverment, it would (probably) be easier to form policies and to do much needed reforms of the country. But as long as populist far right and far left parties take such a large share of the votes, it simply is harder to form a goverment.
You forgot an important aspect: the only reason why Dewever has put these taxes in his proposal is to please the left Flemish party "Vooruit" to participate into this coalition... Dewevers party is strongly opposed against extra taxes and tax-raises. Because in totality Belgium is already one of the most taxed countries in the world. This is mainly because of the endless spending of the left (socialists and greens) during the last decade, the structural deficits have been growing year by year and are currently enormous so: untenable. Billions went mostly to the inactive people who don't work, but also migrants, social benefits, etc. without any contditions or without considerations. Still though those latter still don't understand how precarious the financial situation really is and how younger generations fear their future old day is at stake, all because of this.... Another aspect why those deficits are so huge, is the political structure in Belgium which is way too expensive. And also because the local regions and governments cannot be made accountable & responsible for their own political actions, causing these huge deficits. They simply (directly or indirectly) send the invoice to the other regions without any transparency or any accountability. This situation has only become worse of the years. The only way to stop these abuses, is to thoroughly reform the Belgian state into a more democratic state (which now isn't that democratic as people think it is, it's flawed for a reason) where leaders within regions can be directly made accountable for their own policies and political actions.
Good analysis but some remarks though: - Pensions (20.1%), health care (14.2%), education (11.9%), economy (11.9%), administration (9.3%), replacement income for disability (6.5%), subsidies for companies (6.2%), paying of interest charges (5.6%) is responsible for 75% of where our taxes go and not the topics you mention. Some big contributing factors in expanditure and debt in the last decade were Corona and the energy crisis; - NVA is opposed to extra taxes and tax-raises but you also have to mention they want major cuts that the common people will feel, not the companies or rich; - "Spending on the left (socialists and greens)" is a very biased and wrong sentence. You may want to look up who was in the Belgian government the last decade;
Highly accurate. You really captured the essence of the politics of a country that behaves like quantum mechanics : if you think you understand it, then you don't understand it.
Actually, the situation is a lot better than in 2020. I fully expect a government half November with De Wever as First Minister. Do not underestimate the role of the mayoral election. Belgium has a system where mayors can appoint a replacement if they become part of a government. By delaying the formation of a government, they don’t have to be upfront about their replacement with the voters. De Wever will probably be reelected mayor of Antwerp, look at the individual results of the members of his party and appoint a caretaker who is neither a thread nor someone who lacks support from the voters.
6:30 Fact check: De Wever just wants the 3 regions to be more independent of each other, but he doesnt want to split the country. He wants to move much of the decision making on federal level to regional level, giving each region (not only Flanders) more power of their own. This is understandable if you note that the regions (in particular Flanders and Wallonia) have a LOT of disagreements. However, the few things they do agree on he wants to keep on federal level. He literally said that splitting the country is ridiculous and that he has no interest in pursuing such a goal.
We're shifting more to the right on immigration. All parties around the table want this. The details still need to be worked out as there are differences ofcourse.
If we have a government by the end of the year, i'll consider it a great success. Although i am curious why others keep reporting on it given that i can't remember the last time we had a new government within 2 months of the elections...
i like this speaker - i usually treat these videos as podcasts and since english isn’t my native language it really helps when you have a clear, articulate speaker!
What would Belgium need a government for anyway? (They actually have a government though, they just don't have an administrative council of elected representatives.)
If it was so simple… the French speaking part don’t want that either. Because if you have one Government, Flanders would have more seats due of higher percentage of Flemish citizens. So they would rule over everything. So no that is not the solition. Belgium started thst way, and it didn’t work.
@@ShadowESHWould it work better? At this time we haven't had any riots about language for a few decades. Before the federalisation, this was far more common place
Belgium just needs to het rid of exclusive voting. If we would be able to vote on multiple parties, Belgian politics will be less of a warzone and trust and collaboration will be much higher. Will it solve all the problems, not immediately, but it will be a step in the right direction
The longer Belgium is without a government the better - at least they won't be fucking things up for the rest of us while they're arguing with eachother.
@@diebrechthindrikx3313 That's also in part because in Belgium, we rarely tax where the big money is. Things like capital gain isn't taxed (and unless they get around Bouchez I don't think it will happen) and there are also a lot of backdoors that often only the already wealthy will know about OR can even use. So instead we have a lot of taxes on small money, while convincing enough of the population that the issue is mostly civilian foreigners or our neighbours...
migration is by far the biggest issue, the choice is to form a coalition pro or contra migration. seems not very difficult to me. just count the seats and see who holds the majority.
De Wever was said in Dutch rather than Flemish, and Prévot and Rousseau's names got stress on the second syllable, not the first. But they do better than most!
Some remarks: •The result of the elections is not that straightforward, it is a sum of the Flemish elections with Flemish parties and the elections in Wallonia with the French speaking parties. One of the biggest reasons, beside that there are that so many governments which are in one way or another linked to each other, is that you have to sum these 2 different democraties. •N-VA, the party of Bart De Wever, is not a big fan of taxing a lot, they are economically a right party, but did this as a concession to take the left party Vooruit (Flemish social democrats) into the coalition. This balance was needed because the government was planning to get the deficit under control by doing fundamental reforms about the labor market, pensions and fiscality. •One of the main reasons why the negotations failed is because of the personality of the chairman of the party MR (Walloon right party) who is quite agressive in defending his own position. •De Wever as prime minister is not that discussed by the others, as they are the biggest party. He wants more power for Flanders, but in an evolutionary way (not a revolution like the far right party Flemish interest, VB, wants). •The negotiations most likely won’t advance rapidly as there are local elections in October for which they begin to fear to do concessions short in front of that.
I swear to god, so we already have so much pressure on us with the deadlines we need to meet because we basically live of off The Eu,Un,Nato in our country and then bart de wever desides to resign, what the fuck where the voters thinking I swear to god it’s always the 30-60 yo people who do this
Meaning Vlaams Belang will have the negotiating hands. But this will probably result to nothing as no one wants to govern with them except some of De Wever's party.
It's all more of ideological composure, mixed with - MOST OF ALL - the traditional "Flanders and Wallonia are basically two different countries with their own political cultures now having to come together" issue. For the record: Flanders and Wallonia both get to form their own governments, while having to join forces at the federal level. This doesn't need to happen with the same parties at both levels, though doing so might make things a little less complicated. Traditionally, Flanders votes more right wing, Wallonia more left wing. During the last election however, Wallonia's left suffered a deep blow. It's right wing is led by Bouchez, who is kind of an (inserts bias) asocial attention whore trying desperately and non-stop to be "the big thing" in politics. Bouchez has now seen the possibility of a coalition in Wallonia between his party and the centrist Les Engagées, thus finally without the socialist party. And he desperately wants to be "the great reformer", finally without the left. Meanwhile, in Flanders, the big further rightward shift predicted in the polls, stayed out. People seem more desperate for some sort of stability. The conservative-separatist N-VA, social-democrat Vooruit and centrist CD&V politicians also seem to have a decent understanding amongst one another. Save for the far right Vlaams Belang - who have a massively pie-in-the-sky budget plan and zero interest in governing on the federal level - and the far left PVDA - who have a pie-in-the-sky budget plan and zero interest in governing at all, they are also the only parties that didn't get a serious beating on election night, thus making NVA-Vooruit-CD&V the most logical combo in Flanders. So in Flanders, politicians across the spectrum are very willing to compromise with one another atm, but in the south, Bouchez wants to finally run a government without "the reds", only to suddenly be confronted with Vooruit joining the table at the request of the usually center-right oriented northern half of the country. The capital gains tax has become a symbolic issue about either Bouchez being the Walloon right-wing revolutionary that he wants to portray himself as, or either Conner Rousseau (Vooruit) being seen as giving up completely on any left leaning element in his election program. (They already gave up on their "breaking issue" of free school lunches when negotiating for the Flemish government formation and agreed to big budget cuts at the federal level.) Also, Bouchez made A LOT of enemies during the previous years, when his party was also in government, amongst which Rousseau.... Back then, Bouchez' party MR was basically also in a semi-forced marriage with the Walloon socialist party PS, whom not only the former, but also De Wever (N-VA) doesn't want to be at the table at all now, since they would block all of his reforms. Also, they don't have enough seats to just simply replace the MR as a coalition partner. Meanwhile the center-right liberals in Flanders in turn do not have enough seats to form a stable federal government with, were they to replace Vooruit. They've also already have it made known that they're not willing to get into government this time. So yeah, it's basically a soap opera between 5 parties who are condemned to one another, with the biggest wedge between them being - AGAIN - the different political cultures in the north and the south, albeit not in the conventional way.
Turmoil, turmoil.... Always strong words. You know, having no government is normal for us. We're used to it. why do you think it's the country of surrealism ? At least when there's no government, they can't screw things up.
Ridiculous! A couple of months to form a government is not a big deal in Belgium. The fact that the negotiations have collapsed is not a big deal, as it’s more often the case than not. It almost takes several rounds to set up a coalition cabinet. This video displays sheer ignorance of Belgian politics.
Ah you mean the actual 🎉economically productive part of your country? You are damaged bro, all the problems belgium is having: inflation, housing, stagnating wages, the rich getting richer. And you think the big problem is that there are brown people in brussel.
Oh, what a missed opportunity 😁😁 If you did a little more research, you'd know that Bart De Wever (who is back as "formateur" btw, after he resigned),had a huge part in those world records, because in both cases, he was the "formateur" . In 2010-2011 it was eventually Elio Di Rupo who successfully formed a government (and learnt the Dutch language in about 1 month time), and during the pandemic, worst formation ever for all Belgians, the famous "vivaldi government", he also started as the "formateur" leading us to a second world record. I'm actually hoping for a third one right now 🤣🤣🤣🤣 anyone noticing a pattern here?
It doesn't help that de wever's budget proposition leaked and it was mainly: get 6 billion from the poorest 30% and regular workers, and give 3 billion in benefits to the largest capital holders.
These statistics aren't very useful, though. We're talking about the federal level, not the regions. Flanders has a bigger population; as such, the NVA actually has about 400.000 more votes than the MR does; which translates to a 6.5% difference, in favour of NVA (or 4 seats; Francophone parties do need considerably less votes for a seat). Similarly, Vooruit has about 5000 more votes than the PS (yet, the PS has 3 more seats). If you just list the results of the regional elections, it gets very confusing. The MR seems bigger than the NVA, but is considerably smaller; the PS seems bigger than Vooruit, but is very similar in number of votes (but, then again, in number of seats still quite a bit bigger). Then there's also the fact that people can vote differently for regional and federal elections. Vooruit, for example, has about 40.000 more votes for the regional level compared to the federal level. Usually these results are similar enough to neglect (since the vast majority of people vote for the same party), yet I still think it's worth pointing this out (since you're basically using the wrong results).
Maybe the question should be: will it possible they make a new government at all? Last time they needed the Corona crisis to form one (on national level).
It's ironically more possible than ever. The last formation periods were so long because Wallonia kept voting for the socialists, and Flanders kept voting Centre-right. Horrible combination to form a government. Now, Wallonia finally voted for the right making the socialists irrelevant. And Flanders avoided Vlaams Belang becoming the largest party (and thus the base of the formation)
@@LK-ui9rxYou would think so and probably eventually there will be a government. Maybe the upcoming municipal elections also have something to do with the delay. Difficult people like Bouchez also don’t help (was apparently on show in tv show ‘Special Forces’). But it remains to be seen and how all this will evolve longer term, I have no idea.
We’re already one of the countries where people are taxed the most in the world. People criticise Georges-Louis Bouchez but the guy is only doing what he promised his electorate he would do : reduce taxes, not create new ones. And that’s why we voted for him 🇧🇪
And even though they keep cutting spending on basically everything, they still can't balance the budget. NVA has been in the flemish government for over a decade, and they still run a massive deficit...
Thats the issue, isnt it... A minister from the region who pays the least in taxes, promising his electrolate to try and pay even less. This contrast in vision is what prevents Belgium to become united.
@@empiregeof He is very well aware of the difference in financial contribution to the federal state between the 2 regions. He has even offered to transfer the competence of the social aid’s paiement for unemployed people to the regions so they can each feel the real impact of their own policies ; especially Wallonia that has a higher unemployment rate. I understand Flemish people’s frustration towards the south yet you should not talk ill of someone who’s trying his best to fix a situation that’s been like this for years. Plus the tax on capital gain would apply to the whole of Belgium btw, Walloons and Flemish alike.
@@jorenbaplu5100 Still for 2023, the debt-to-revenu ration for Flemish region was of 52%. While in comparaison, Wallonia was at 204% and Brussels at 205% 😅 they’ve managed it pretty decently in my opinion. I have nothing against De Wever nor am I a fan of his but here he just made too many concessions to the socialist 😟
Correction to that note on the screen at 4:00 in New Zealand its not about the type of transaction or time, its about the "intention" of the trader. Did they buy and sell with an intention to flip it for a profit, or did they buy it and sell it for other reasons like saving for their retirement. Basically it comes down to whether their main job is flipping the stocks or real estate. Then if they are treated as a trader, its classed as "income tax" and treated as income, theres no separate capital gains tax system with its own rate or anything like that.
If someone explained you belgian politics and you understood it , that person explained it to you wrongly.
It's a funny joke that I as a Belgian used to laugh at too, bt it was explained really well in this video.
accurate.
its quite simple,
here in belgium:
- the french speaking socialists steal from the homeless
- the dutch speaking socialists are quite racist
- the green party are against regulating animal butchering
- the dutch and french nationalists want to be in different nations
- the more extreme dutch nationalists are terrible at cooperating with the regular nationalists in order to... i think they also want to leave the EU? i have no idea
- i have no idea what the communists want to do, they keep talking about paying everyone the same and palestine,
are we seizing the means of production? are we invading israel? i don't know
- the wallonians hate the flemish because the flemish hate the french speakers for oppressing them, all the while being bankrolled by the flemish due to their generation spanning incompetence and being willfully ignorant that the only reason they are french speakers themselves is because they were also oppressed by the french speaking bruxelles in the same way the flemish were
- i'm serious, the socialists stole from the homeless
Haha. So true
I followed the details for a long time watching the VRT and used to have a reasonable grasp on the whole thing.
It is the best soap opera on TV.
But since 2016 British politics has been quite good as well.
Things are going great by Belgian standards
Maybe a dumb question but why don‘t they overhaul their federal system? If it obviously doesn’t work.
@MettMagier Because no one could agree on how exactly it should be. It's actually in the constitution already that the federal government, rather than being the default, will only have competences laid out in a Special Law - that will probably never get passed or even voted on.
@@MettMagier Flanders will sooner go independent than go through the process of overhauling the federal system.
@@MettMagier OOF thats an explanation that will require a 100page essay. Its a mix of responsebilities conerncing provinces, the federal state, the communial principles, the contrast in economic visions because of the economic disparity between Wallony and Flanders.
I mean, if we cant already agree in just forming a goverment, what makes you think we'll be able to overhaul our federal system wich would take an even greater effort in agreeing with eachother? :D
@@MettMagier We revise the constitution every 10 or so years and there's always at least one party (usually NVA) who always insist it has been too long.
Bro, Belgium with a functioning government is the exception. What are you talking about?
what are you talking about we have 6 (7) equal governments at least about 5 at all times lol
It's designed to not work so there's always someone else to blame if something doesn't work out.
it's like a headless chicken really. we still have several other, functioning governments that can do stuff
@@dhooth with our number of government, I think Belgium could have been an hydra XD
Belgium functions best when the government doesn't.
Really, it gives us some peace of mind knowing there will be no sudden change of taxes or benefits (in all directions).
Belgium on its way to break their own record again: "My goals are beyond your understanding..."
Northern Ireland have the record, the Guinness book of records don’t include it, but why the hell is the Guinness book of records a source in a politics news video
The record is a long way and I don't think it will be broken. This formation still has a shot of happening, and if it doesn't, there are some other realistic ways to form a gouverment.
@@dominickskinner407 Northern Ireland isn't national
@@abarette_ just like any other country, it depends on who you ask.
If Kosovo go without a government, what do we say?
@@dominickskinner407 dude no one in Northern Ireland pretends Northern Ireland is a country
It's either [part of UK] or [part of Ireland]
I get why their former government is called a Vivaldi. Cause it takes at least Four Seasons to cobble it together, with a high likelyhood it will only last Four Seasons
Well.. if I remember correctly, that's because it was made up with people from 4 opposed parties... hence effectivelly the Four Seasons ^^
@@Sephiroth517it's because of the colors of the governing parties. You had the liberals (blue), the greens (green), the socialists (red), and the christians (orange). The colors of the 4 seasons. Likewise in the flemish part it's gonna be called the rocket popsicle government because of the socialists (red), the christians (orange), and the nationalists (yellow) as these are the colors of a typical rocket popsicle in Belgium.
Unless Vivaldi had no clue what he was doing, that government was an insult to Vivaldi.
Real news would be if Belgium could form a government. This isn't news.
It´s not necessarily a bad thing either, if things just chug on as they are and nobody does any radical lurches, then that´s preferable to having a hard right govt in my view.
Beschamend wat je zegt, omdat het de waarheid is…🙃💯
@@Minimmalmythicistridiculous
@@friedrichvonhoffmeister3343 not at all. The institutions will keep doing what they do and Life Will Carry on.
@@Minimmalmythicistidk if “better no government than one I politically disagree with” is the stunning endorsement you think it is. It’s literally the opposite of the foundational concepts of democracy.
5:12 Prévot hasn't actually been appointed as the lead negotiator, he's been appointed as conciliator and is meant to resolve the disputes between the parties so that De Wever can take up his role as "Formateur" again
Which occurred today, De Wever is formateur again. Nothing happened lol!
Nothing wil happen until October seventh
As a Belgian, this situation doesn't scare me at all, it's perfectly normal.
Give us time, we'll figure it out !
In the mean time Belgiums debt burden is totally out of control. But that is ok. At least the enormous army of best paid politicians are enriching themselves with those debts.
As another Belgian, this situation angers and frustrates me. Especially Bouchez's childish behavior.
The longer it takes to form a government, the longer we have a caretaker government (read: not much gets accomplished + less time left to get shit done before parties go into election mode again) while we have major (fiscal and other) challenges to tackle.
cordon sanitaire is the origin of this shit. how long are we tolerating that? let the far right in governement for 4 years and people will realise that t hey are also only there to fill their own pockets.
As a Belgian we Will survive
How much lmfao
In Political Science, there are 3 kinds of Government; Monarchy, Republic, and Belgium
Unfortunately, we are also a monarchy.
@@driesvandenbrande2941if the monarchy is abolished, I bet Belgium itself would fracture.
It's up there with the Holy Roman Empire in complexity.
BREAKING NEWS: Belgium cant form a government.
In other news, water is wet.
Water isn't wet, the stuff in contact with water can be wet, like a towel for example
@@griswo3272🤓
@@griswo3272In other words: water wets
Correction: Belgium can't form a federal government.
We have 5 functional governments (Flemish (region + language combined), Walloon region, Brussels region, French language and German language) and 1 disfunctional federal government.
@@joaoluis654right, but itself isn't wet. Get it?
It's OK. They have plenty of spare governments.
😂😭
Both above and below (the EU government is stationed in Brussels)
Thing is, the Brussels and Flemish governments are having similar squabbles.
@@hydrocharis1 Not really. The Flemish government formation is going quite well, actually. Initially, there was some fuss due the socialdemocrats playing hard to get, but so far it has been smooth sailing. Besides, on the federal level, the conflict is between Vooruit and MR, not Vooruit and NVA.
Brussels, on the other hand, has the potential to be more problematic than the federal gov. formation, not to mention the fact that their finances are looking the worst of all.
They have EU, NATO headquarters. No worries.
I’m Belgian & this is very embarrassing to watch. Besides that, government or not, our daily life still goes on & we don’t notice it that much
It's especially embarrassing after they first declared it would be easy, and they would have a government by the flemish or national holiday (both in July).
Belgium really should split up. What do you think about that? From the outside it seems the country has zero identity, zero history with big tensions. There really is nothing holding the country together in my view. Why have it then?
@@armingleiner5292as someone who live there, there would be more problems splitting up both short term and long term than whatever is happening now
As you say it yourself 'from the outside'. If you live in Belgium (at least where i live) most people don't want to break up bc they have no problem with each other or that it will not change anything. The politics will still be as they are now and there wouldn't be any identity eather bc there is just so much difference in regions.
I think its better to stay together and try to fix the government problem. Also the flemisch against walloon thing doesn't really exist that much anymore i think, the attention is more focused on mass immigration these days.@@armingleiner5292
@@armingleiner5292 no, we shouldn’t split up. It’s only the politicians that don’t get along. We Belgians (French, Dutch & German speaking Belgians) get along perfectly. Also it’s impossible to split, because Brussels is literally situated in the Flemish part (but majority speaks french)
As a Belgian myself i say this happens with every election
And every time life goes on as normal.
I'm once again learning what's going in in my country through an English-language channel.
Same for me. At least now I know why they call it Arizona.
As a belgian the only mistake i noticed is that De Wevers succesor Prevot his role is not to negotiate but to mediate.
One thing that I think shouldd've been added: You briefly mentioned mayoral elections on october the 13th but these elections are in a few weeks so every compromise a governing party makes can be hold against them in the next elections.
Some other things that can be added:
- Since you translated the NVA, CD&V and MR you might just translate Vooruit to Forward.
- These 5 parties not only form a federal majority but also a Flemish and Walloon majority. MR and Les Engagees have already formed a governement and NVA, CDV and Vooruit are discussing a Flemish governement. This would work way better then the last five years where NVA worked with CDV on regional level but was in opposition to CDV on federal level.
- It's not only Georges Louis Bouchez being pro-rich that caused some problems but also the way he somewhat childishly reacted to it.
- The party Vooruit also has some problems with going in the Arizona-coalition since it will be the only left party in a centre-right governement. The Walloon Socialists, the commnunists and the socialist union ABVV have all said that Vooruit should step out of the negotiations.
If that happenes the only other option would be the Flemish Liberals Open-VLD. But they dicided to go in the opposition since they lost a lot of seats and try to renew their party. Another problem is that with Open-VLD there won't be a Flemish majority, something Bart De Wever has always pledged for and critised in the previous governement.
Overall these 5 parties know that there isn't a better alternative and that they have to work together.
Thanks for taking the time and trouble to post this.
Thank you very much for your taking the time to develop things further, as it can indeed be quite confusing for non-Belgian people (heck! even we Belgians have trouble to understand it...). The only thing I would add is that MR can't be quite described as center-right, as they are definitely a traditional right wing party (just like Open VLD).
I also think it is quite dramatic to state that confederalists want 'more power for flanders', as if they want flanders to take power over the whole country. Made me giggle a little tho cause that might be BDW's wet dream
If you can go more than a year without forming a government, you don't need it.
when politicians look out for their own interests instead of the ppl. They argue about who should drive, while the car is heading to the ditch.
Absolutely true nice analogy
not possible for the car to head to the ditch cause this is belgium and its probalby stuck in traffic
As a belgian i could not have said it any better. They don't care about their citizens. Only their own paycheck is important. And no matter what party wins, nothing will change. In fact, things only got worse over time.
Fun fact: government formation in Belgium these days is conditional on being able to find a silly name for the coalition: Arizona now, Vivaldi previously!
I thought only we Germans make these silly coalistion names like Traffic Light or Jamaika.
How is it Arizona tho? You can clearly see at 2:38 that the light blue party (les engagé?) is nowhere in the Arizona flag (unless I'm completely blind, which is certainly a possibility).
@@novedad4468it is a fair remark but the party was previously called cdh and shared the colour orange with their sister party cd&v (Both are christian democratic).
@@novedad4468 In Belgium it's called "raketijsje". It means rocket ice. Its an water ice cream in the colors of the party's in the form of a rocket 😂
That's for the Flemish coalition if I'm not mistaken 😁
As a Dutch person from the Netherlands I don’t understand Belgian politics at all, except for one thing. “It’s already the fault of the Sossen”.
Don’t ask me what a “Sossen” is though!
Sossen = Socialists, it's a running gag 🙂
Socialists - 'Socialisten' :)
"sossen" is the abbreviation for "socialists", referring to PS and Vooruit, the socialist parties, who are seen as the enemy of the N-VA.
"sossen" is de afkorting van "socialisten", verwijzend naar PS en Vooruit, de socialistische partijen, die worden gezien als de aartsvijand van de N-VA.
What americans take libs for.
well, PS and vooruit (formerly spa)
and PS lost bad this time and vooruit is still a relatively minor party
I've once heard a Belgian man joking that Belgium was both a 'democratic bureaucracy and an anarchist state at the same time.' now that I've lived in Belgium for five years now, I fully understand what he mend.
Even lettuces can't compete with Belgian coalition government discussions.
Better to have no government than to have Lettuce Truss
lmao
1:25 French or the trench 💀
The trench it is
We are not the Netherlands nor France we have flags for each region, wtf is this.
maybe she'd use them if those flags were good
@@abarette_ wdym??
Flanders has a lion on their flag and wallonia has a giant cock on it.
Flags of the language
@@abarette_honestly both flander's and wallonia flags aren't too bad, compared to your average 3stripes flag
Belgium is just a battleground for Dutch and French people. Only the people in Belgium don't know, just like in the hunger games.
Ah, it's time for the annual "Belgium can't form a government" story
It can't be annual because the talks usually take a few years 😅
Belgium's record only exists because Northern Ireland doesnt count as a country.
as a belgian
i did not notice anything happening
nothing ever happens
They just love waffling on
As a Belgian; pleaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaase STOP! We do not eat that many waffles.
@@kianlakchi7182 and we Germans not so much kraut 🤣
Invent a better stereotype 😉
@TheGahta
But Belgian already have many (true) stereotypes. They eat a lot of chocolate. They drink a lot of beer. They eat a lot of fries... You know what, Belgians like to eat.
@kianlakchi7182
Belgians maybe don't eat that many of waffles, but we sure have a lot of waffle variants, with the Brussels waffles and Liège waffles being the two most well known.
With Belgian waffles which Americans like to eat being a modified, more simple version of the Brussels waffles if I'm not mistaken.
@@funchildrenchannel3913 🤷
Life is unfair innit
Our caretaker governments are pretty ok. We hold the record, but it is still not over 1000 days.
Not Belgian or thought on it too deeply. What do you think the consequnces would be for a law that dissolves Parliament if there is no non-caretaker PM for 730days or 2years, and therefore fresh elections.
Do you think it’d incentivise forming a coallition. Or do you think it’d make separatists just hold our forever hoping a never ending election furthers national dissolution. ?
Dont jinx it.
@@MrCalls1 It wouldn't incentivise anything, but it would certainly be fair, 6 years would be too long between elections.
Hello from Belgium. I'd not worry too much at this stage. We've faced much worse political crisis and technically the country runs quite well even for years without a fully functional federal govt. As you mentionned many subjects are managed at regions and communities and the previeous federal govt remains active with limited powers in "affaires courantes".
I'd actually wory much more about the formation of a coalition in France. We in Belgium have a long history of forming coalition govts and even if it's not that easy we know it finally works. The French try to name the prime minister before knowing what the coalition govt will do and that is quite more risky.
That kind of standstill is very usual in Belgian government formation process (even when it's swift, like in 2014). It is called the "Dramatization phase", allowing some parties to put loads of pressure on their partners to get what they want or just show their electors they did everything they could to achieve what they voted for...
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As a Belgian, I love my country and I've been afraid for 15 years that it would split in two because of the political differences between the two main regions, which mean that they never agree. And then I tell myself that Belgian politics is so great that even when they finally want to cut Belgium in two, they won't be able to agree on how to do it and will give up.
I have to say, stellar job of explaining this in a concise way. Belgium's politics are tricky to represent well and y'all did a great job. Congratulations also for pronouncing the names right!
Good analysis. As I mentioned the last time (2020), the main reason the national level negotiations drag on is that most issues that matter for voters are managed by the regions which is why regional government negotiations rarely take very long.
wait we have a government?
It's a national tradition at this point
"Belgium has no government, Belgium needs no Government."- Boromir.
Belgium needs no king either, but alas.
Belgian here. There is a simple reason that explains a lot (not everything). Too many people vote for parties like Vlaams Belang or PVDA/PTB because they are fed up with the system that is "not listening to them" so they vote for anti-system parties with whom it is obvious the other parties won't work together since their proposals are too unrealistic or populistic.
So more parties are needed to form a coalition goverment. For example: Vooruit is the only left wing party in a propossed Arizona coalition while other parties are centre-right or right just to get a workable majority. And they can expect heavy opposition from their sister party PS, the green parties and the communists. While on the other hand MR and N-VA agree on economic matters, but not on the fact if more needs to be done on the federal level or the regional level.
If fewer parties would be needed to form a goverment, it would (probably) be easier to form policies and to do much needed reforms of the country. But as long as populist far right and far left parties take such a large share of the votes, it simply is harder to form a goverment.
You forgot an important aspect: the only reason why Dewever has put these taxes in his proposal is to please the left Flemish party "Vooruit" to participate into this coalition... Dewevers party is strongly opposed against extra taxes and tax-raises. Because in totality Belgium is already one of the most taxed countries in the world. This is mainly because of the endless spending of the left (socialists and greens) during the last decade, the structural deficits have been growing year by year and are currently enormous so: untenable. Billions went mostly to the inactive people who don't work, but also migrants, social benefits, etc. without any contditions or without considerations. Still though those latter still don't understand how precarious the financial situation really is and how younger generations fear their future old day is at stake, all because of this.... Another aspect why those deficits are so huge, is the political structure in Belgium which is way too expensive. And also because the local regions and governments cannot be made accountable & responsible for their own political actions, causing these huge deficits. They simply (directly or indirectly) send the invoice to the other regions without any transparency or any accountability. This situation has only become worse of the years. The only way to stop these abuses, is to thoroughly reform the Belgian state into a more democratic state (which now isn't that democratic as people think it is, it's flawed for a reason) where leaders within regions can be directly made accountable for their own policies and political actions.
Good analysis but some remarks though:
- Pensions (20.1%), health care (14.2%), education (11.9%), economy (11.9%), administration (9.3%), replacement income for disability (6.5%), subsidies for companies (6.2%), paying of interest charges (5.6%) is responsible for 75% of where our taxes go and not the topics you mention. Some big contributing factors in expanditure and debt in the last decade were Corona and the energy crisis;
- NVA is opposed to extra taxes and tax-raises but you also have to mention they want major cuts that the common people will feel, not the companies or rich;
- "Spending on the left (socialists and greens)" is a very biased and wrong sentence. You may want to look up who was in the Belgian government the last decade;
Highly accurate. You really captured the essence of the politics of a country that behaves like quantum mechanics : if you think you understand it, then you don't understand it.
Actually, the situation is a lot better than in 2020. I fully expect a government half November with De Wever as First Minister. Do not underestimate the role of the mayoral election. Belgium has a system where mayors can appoint a replacement if they become part of a government. By delaying the formation of a government, they don’t have to be upfront about their replacement with the voters. De Wever will probably be reelected mayor of Antwerp, look at the individual results of the members of his party and appoint a caretaker who is neither a thread nor someone who lacks support from the voters.
6:30 Fact check: De Wever just wants the 3 regions to be more independent of each other, but he doesnt want to split the country. He wants to move much of the decision making on federal level to regional level, giving each region (not only Flanders) more power of their own. This is understandable if you note that the regions (in particular Flanders and Wallonia) have a LOT of disagreements. However, the few things they do agree on he wants to keep on federal level. He literally said that splitting the country is ridiculous and that he has no interest in pursuing such a goal.
The anarchists may be right. Belgium can exist years without a government but still exist somehow.
nah, we have an interim government and still a lot of other governments managing the work
Great work on your pronunciations of the Belgian names/parties! Nearly perfect, kudos 👌🇧🇪
I like how the number 1 issue of Belgians in the election was immigration and the fact there's too much of it and we hear nothing of it now.
Because they're only complaining about things that they can't agree on. On immigration they had a pretty big overlap in what they wanted.
We're shifting more to the right on immigration. All parties around the table want this. The details still need to be worked out as there are differences ofcourse.
In 2019-2020 we did have a government, named Wilmès 1 and 2, so no new records were broken
0:36 fake news, Bart De Wever never smiles
Belgian here :
Nothing to see here, completely normal phenomenon
You can resume your daily activities
Nice to see when anglophones actually try to have good pronunciation.
If we have a government by the end of the year, i'll consider it a great success. Although i am curious why others keep reporting on it given that i can't remember the last time we had a new government within 2 months of the elections...
as a Belgian, this makes sense
wich is impossible
i like this speaker - i usually treat these videos as podcasts and since english isn’t my native language it really helps when you have a clear, articulate speaker!
Ah shit, here we go again.
Is anyone going to tell the Belgians that the Arizona flag only has four colors? And that the star is Copper, not orange?
Nice prononciation from the speaker. Please change the defect lightbulbs though 😁
What would Belgium need a government for anyway? (They actually have a government though, they just don't have an administrative council of elected representatives.)
We (In Belgium) should go back to a one government for the entire country system instead of this bullshit.
One government did not work either that is the whole tragedy behind it. It is not that simple
If it was so simple… the French speaking part don’t want that either. Because if you have one Government, Flanders would have more seats due of higher percentage of Flemish citizens. So they would rule over everything. So no that is not the solition. Belgium started thst way, and it didn’t work.
@@stevenhendrix4768 Well I would work better then what we have now and it will also save the state a ton of money.
@@ShadowESHWould it work better? At this time we haven't had any riots about language for a few decades. Before the federalisation, this was far more common place
@@CouldBeMathijs Gesproken als een echte vlaams belanger.
The “Arizona Coalition.” Talk about ominous😅
Belgium just needs to het rid of exclusive voting. If we would be able to vote on multiple parties, Belgian politics will be less of a warzone and trust and collaboration will be much higher. Will it solve all the problems, not immediately, but it will be a step in the right direction
It would be a good thing for most election systems
I agree
I wonder how much space there would be for cross-lingual parties. Except for secessionists, why does language matter at this level?
Good dutch pronunciation, kudos.
As a Belgian person, I once again get to be proud of our government.
O dierbaar België
O heilig land der Vaad'ren
Onze ziel en ons hart zijn u gewijd.
Aanvaard ons kracht en het bloed van onze ad'ren.
As a Belgian, these long coalition buildings are a total disgrace!
PS, nice pronunciation of the names
Belgium functions much better without governance.
Being Belgian, I must say that is very well explained!
All the names were pronounced very well!
Hearing her voice I think she might be dutch, I noticed some little accent in the pronouncations
@@JobHansI think they used Google's text to voice, which would not have the Flemish g or r
I heard Bart de Vever, when in Vlaams, it's pronounced closer to a W in English
She did ok, but Vooruit was very bad haha.
The longer Belgium is without a government the better - at least they won't be fucking things up for the rest of us while they're arguing with eachother.
no capital gain tax countries existing is disugsting, especially within the EU
Kinda logical when all your politicians are rich, why would they ever tax themselves
@@jorenbaplu5100 especially in Belgium where politicians get paid a whole lot. well, to be fair they're doing Belgian politics so maybe it's fair 🤭
Yet we are among the countries with the highest capital taxes. Maybe not capital gain, but a lot of other taxes.
@@diebrechthindrikx3313 That's also in part because in Belgium, we rarely tax where the big money is. Things like capital gain isn't taxed (and unless they get around Bouchez I don't think it will happen) and there are also a lot of backdoors that often only the already wealthy will know about OR can even use. So instead we have a lot of taxes on small money, while convincing enough of the population that the issue is mostly civilian foreigners or our neighbours...
Even the new capital gain tax
If it would be implemented, people would only pay if they would sells stocks above 5 million euro's.
Again, very good summary. Well done.
“Arizona coalition”???
Why do Belgians know what the Arizona flag looks like? Why do they even know what Arizona is?
I'm sure more Belgians know where Arizona is than Arizonans know Belgium exists.
Belgians get a decent education about the world unlike americans
Knowing Arizona is an US state, is not particularly advanced knowledge...knowing the flag is more niche though.
Europeans are overall more educated about the world than people on other continents, and certainly more than US people
It’s probably a term created by news broadcasters, not average Belgians
migration is by far the biggest issue, the choice is to form a coalition pro or contra migration. seems not very difficult to me. just count the seats and see who holds the majority.
De Wever experiences the biggest disappointment of life life about once every month. Big words, nothing more.
We call him Calimero at home.😅😂 "Zij zijn groot en ik is klein, en da's niet eerlijk, o nee"😂
Waw , the pronunciation is spot on
De Wever was said in Dutch rather than Flemish, and Prévot and Rousseau's names got stress on the second syllable, not the first.
But they do better than most!
That's new to hear that Vooruit is a centre-left party, and not a socialist party.
They haven’t been a true socialist party for years. PVDA has taken their place at the left of the spectrum.
It is guite clearly socdem
It's how we call them (and how they call themselves). Our 'liberals' are also right-wing. At the end of the day it's just a name.
PS is center left too...
Just wanted to compliment you on your very good pronunciation of the names in Dutch ánd in French, kudos! 👍🏻
Some remarks:
•The result of the elections is not that straightforward, it is a sum of the Flemish elections with Flemish parties and the elections in Wallonia with the French speaking parties. One of the biggest reasons, beside that there are that so many governments which are in one way or another linked to each other, is that you have to sum these 2 different democraties.
•N-VA, the party of Bart De Wever, is not a big fan of taxing a lot, they are economically a right party, but did this as a concession to take the left party Vooruit (Flemish social democrats) into the coalition. This balance was needed because the government was planning to get the deficit under control by doing fundamental reforms about the labor market, pensions and fiscality.
•One of the main reasons why the negotations failed is because of the personality of the chairman of the party MR (Walloon right party) who is quite agressive in defending his own position.
•De Wever as prime minister is not that discussed by the others, as they are the biggest party. He wants more power for Flanders, but in an evolutionary way (not a revolution like the far right party Flemish interest, VB, wants).
•The negotiations most likely won’t advance rapidly as there are local elections in October for which they begin to fear to do concessions short in front of that.
I swear to god, so we already have so much pressure on us with the deadlines we need to meet because we basically live of off The Eu,Un,Nato in our country and then bart de wever desides to resign, what the fuck where the voters thinking I swear to god it’s always the 30-60 yo people who do this
Good job on pronouncing the names! I'm impressed. Maybe put some light in the studio though?
Meaning Vlaams Belang will have the negotiating hands. But this will probably result to nothing as no one wants to govern with them except some of De Wever's party.
It's all more of ideological composure, mixed with - MOST OF ALL - the traditional "Flanders and Wallonia are basically two different countries with their own political cultures now having to come together" issue.
For the record: Flanders and Wallonia both get to form their own governments, while having to join forces at the federal level. This doesn't need to happen with the same parties at both levels, though doing so might make things a little less complicated.
Traditionally, Flanders votes more right wing, Wallonia more left wing. During the last election however, Wallonia's left suffered a deep blow.
It's right wing is led by Bouchez, who is kind of an (inserts bias) asocial attention whore trying desperately and non-stop to be "the big thing" in politics. Bouchez has now seen the possibility of a coalition in Wallonia between his party and the centrist Les Engagées, thus finally without the socialist party. And he desperately wants to be "the great reformer", finally without the left.
Meanwhile, in Flanders, the big further rightward shift predicted in the polls, stayed out. People seem more desperate for some sort of stability. The conservative-separatist N-VA, social-democrat Vooruit and centrist CD&V politicians also seem to have a decent understanding amongst one another.
Save for the far right Vlaams Belang - who have a massively pie-in-the-sky budget plan and zero interest in governing on the federal level - and the far left PVDA - who have a pie-in-the-sky budget plan and zero interest in governing at all, they are also the only parties that didn't get a serious beating on election night, thus making NVA-Vooruit-CD&V the most logical combo in Flanders.
So in Flanders, politicians across the spectrum are very willing to compromise with one another atm, but in the south, Bouchez wants to finally run a government without "the reds", only to suddenly be confronted with Vooruit joining the table at the request of the usually center-right oriented northern half of the country.
The capital gains tax has become a symbolic issue about either Bouchez being the Walloon right-wing revolutionary that he wants to portray himself as, or either Conner Rousseau (Vooruit) being seen as giving up completely on any left leaning element in his election program. (They already gave up on their "breaking issue" of free school lunches when negotiating for the Flemish government formation and agreed to big budget cuts at the federal level.)
Also, Bouchez made A LOT of enemies during the previous years, when his party was also in government, amongst which Rousseau....
Back then, Bouchez' party MR was basically also in a semi-forced marriage with the Walloon socialist party PS, whom not only the former, but also De Wever (N-VA) doesn't want to be at the table at all now, since they would block all of his reforms. Also, they don't have enough seats to just simply replace the MR as a coalition partner.
Meanwhile the center-right liberals in Flanders in turn do not have enough seats to form a stable federal government with, were they to replace Vooruit. They've also already have it made known that they're not willing to get into government this time.
So yeah, it's basically a soap opera between 5 parties who are condemned to one another, with the biggest wedge between them being - AGAIN - the different political cultures in the north and the south, albeit not in the conventional way.
This comment sums it up so well. You did a great job explaining it!
@@bebel4298 Thanks.
Your pronunciation is very good!
Turmoil, turmoil....
Always strong words.
You know, having no government is normal for us.
We're used to it. why do you think it's the country of surrealism ?
At least when there's no government, they can't screw things up.
Ridiculous! A couple of months to form a government is not a big deal in Belgium. The fact that the negotiations have collapsed is not a big deal, as it’s more often the case than not. It almost takes several rounds to set up a coalition cabinet. This video displays sheer ignorance of Belgian politics.
Wait... Is this a Deja Vu? 🤔
I strongly feel like I heard this one before 🙈
I'd be worried if someone came along and said that we (Belgium) formed a new governement within 2 months.
As a Belgian ,we're fine. Outside of the mass immigration and 70% of Bruxelles not being Belgian. It just works x)
Ah you mean the actual 🎉economically productive part of your country? You are damaged bro, all the problems belgium is having: inflation, housing, stagnating wages, the rich getting richer. And you think the big problem is that there are brown people in brussel.
Oh, what a missed opportunity 😁😁 If you did a little more research, you'd know that Bart De Wever (who is back as "formateur" btw, after he resigned),had a huge part in those world records, because in both cases, he was the "formateur" . In 2010-2011 it was eventually Elio Di Rupo who successfully formed a government (and learnt the Dutch language in about 1 month time), and during the pandemic, worst formation ever for all Belgians, the famous "vivaldi government", he also started as the "formateur" leading us to a second world record. I'm actually hoping for a third one right now 🤣🤣🤣🤣 anyone noticing a pattern here?
how can people like the video already it's only been out for a minute
ideological loyalty to the cause, the cause of news
Big planet, lots of people
It doesn't help that de wever's budget proposition leaked and it was mainly: get 6 billion from the poorest 30% and regular workers, and give 3 billion in benefits to the largest capital holders.
Belgium try to have a functioning government challenge (impossible)
Hello from 🇧🇪🇧🇪🇧🇪! Don't worry about us. The beer is fresh, the rain is wet and nobody cares about the government...😊
Me: Belgium is unable to form a government? Good hevans, just look at the time!
Clock: It's Belgium is unable to form a government o'clock
Results of the elections in Belgium:
Flemish part:
•Nieuw-Vlaamse Alliantie (N-VA) 23,9%
•Vlaams Belang (VB) 22,7%
•Vooruit 13,9%
•CD&V 13%
•Open VLD 8,3%
•PVDA 8,3%
•Groen 7,3%
French part:
•MR 29,6%
•PS 23,2%
•Les Engagés 20,7%
•PTB 12,1%
•Ecolo 7%
These statistics aren't very useful, though. We're talking about the federal level, not the regions. Flanders has a bigger population; as such, the NVA actually has about 400.000 more votes than the MR does; which translates to a 6.5% difference, in favour of NVA (or 4 seats; Francophone parties do need considerably less votes for a seat).
Similarly, Vooruit has about 5000 more votes than the PS (yet, the PS has 3 more seats).
If you just list the results of the regional elections, it gets very confusing. The MR seems bigger than the NVA, but is considerably smaller; the PS seems bigger than Vooruit, but is very similar in number of votes (but, then again, in number of seats still quite a bit bigger).
Then there's also the fact that people can vote differently for regional and federal elections. Vooruit, for example, has about 40.000 more votes for the regional level compared to the federal level. Usually these results are similar enough to neglect (since the vast majority of people vote for the same party), yet I still think it's worth pointing this out (since you're basically using the wrong results).
Northern Ireland executive realises it doesn't have the record..... says, Hold My Beer!!
Pretty sure we would have one if their salaries would be frozen during the making of a government
It's in their DNA at this point
Maybe the question should be: will it possible they make a new government at all? Last time they needed the Corona crisis to form one (on national level).
It's ironically more possible than ever. The last formation periods were so long because Wallonia kept voting for the socialists, and Flanders kept voting Centre-right. Horrible combination to form a government. Now, Wallonia finally voted for the right making the socialists irrelevant. And Flanders avoided Vlaams Belang becoming the largest party (and thus the base of the formation)
@@LK-ui9rxYou would think so and probably eventually there will be a government. Maybe the upcoming municipal elections also have something to do with the delay. Difficult people like Bouchez also don’t help (was apparently on show in tv show ‘Special Forces’). But it remains to be seen and how all this will evolve longer term, I have no idea.
SECOND
The last time I was this early I wasn't
As a Belgian we Will survive
We’re already one of the countries where people are taxed the most in the world. People criticise Georges-Louis Bouchez but the guy is only doing what he promised his electorate he would do : reduce taxes, not create new ones. And that’s why we voted for him 🇧🇪
And even though they keep cutting spending on basically everything, they still can't balance the budget.
NVA has been in the flemish government for over a decade, and they still run a massive deficit...
Thats the issue, isnt it... A minister from the region who pays the least in taxes, promising his electrolate to try and pay even less. This contrast in vision is what prevents Belgium to become united.
@@empiregeof He is very well aware of the difference in financial contribution to the federal state between the 2 regions. He has even offered to transfer the competence of the social aid’s paiement for unemployed people to the regions so they can each feel the real impact of their own policies ; especially Wallonia that has a higher unemployment rate. I understand Flemish people’s frustration towards the south yet you should not talk ill of someone who’s trying his best to fix a situation that’s been like this for years. Plus the tax on capital gain would apply to the whole of Belgium btw, Walloons and Flemish alike.
Taxation is the price you pay for civilisation in my view. I far prefer the Belgian model to the US or British one.
@@jorenbaplu5100 Still for 2023, the debt-to-revenu ration for Flemish region was of 52%. While in comparaison, Wallonia was at 204% and Brussels at 205% 😅 they’ve managed it pretty decently in my opinion. I have nothing against De Wever nor am I a fan of his but here he just made too many concessions to the socialist 😟
Correction to that note on the screen at 4:00 in New Zealand its not about the type of transaction or time, its about the "intention" of the trader. Did they buy and sell with an intention to flip it for a profit, or did they buy it and sell it for other reasons like saving for their retirement. Basically it comes down to whether their main job is flipping the stocks or real estate. Then if they are treated as a trader, its classed as "income tax" and treated as income, theres no separate capital gains tax system with its own rate or anything like that.