My uncle had a chief back in the 60s. He kept it at the family farm. The first time he took me up, the wind changed speed and direction in an unexpected way. He turned it around but we were onlt making walking speed over the ground. Sometimes we appeared to be flying backwards. he turned back downwind, got on the radio and found that Des Moine had much better weather so we made the 150 mile detour. Spent the night in a motel (a first for me at age 7) and he took me out for a steak, another first. We had a big breakfast the next day and kind of goofed off on thflight home. Back in the 1920s and30s they painted ads on the top of barns and such along low altitude airline routes. so flew around readind ads or just spotting something interesting. Its a vivid happy memory
Just bought a 47’ Chief with a C-85 as my first plane. It’s exactly what I wanted in a classic, I even got the skis with it too. I’ve flown and instructed in Cub’s, Champ’s and Chief’s. I like the side by side seating with my wife next to me. I never liked sticks in a side by side. My Chief is such a cruiser. It’s fast enough to go where I want to go! I have nothing against a Champ. It’s another great taildragger. However, I wanted the side by side for my mission. To me, the Champ addressed the things I don’t like about the Cub. But what matters most, is that these old planes are restored and flown! It doesn’t matter the make/model. Just get out and fly what you like!!!
I have my dad's Champ he bought in 1961. I soloed it in 1971(I'm old) The Champ is responsible for my 40 year airline career and is a family heirloom. I'm building a Cub now as we had a 85hp J-3 and I loved it. In the past 50 years I've owned a '40 BL65 T-Craft , a Porterfield and a C-180. You're spot on about the Chief, great airplane, any model.
Don't forget the undervalued Taylorcraft as well! I love my fully electric 85hp BC12D... but I do very often miss the visibility, stick, back-seat flying, and open door experience of the L-4 Cub I first learned to fly in...
I picked up my Beautiful clean little Vegabond for 20 Canadian, I love the cub but I just can't justify the money. The Vegabond does 90 mph on 65 hp, has good heat in the winter and has dual stick control, I love the little airplane. After the war they assembled them with leftover J 3 parts so it's pretty cub like. I picked up an Aeronca project about 10 years ago for 2500 dollars that's nearing completion. now, That will be my long distance airplane, dual wing tanks and Lycoming o235. Love the videos, Thanks
My father and I just got a champ and could not be more pleased with it. Visibility is fantastic, the gear is soft, the room is nice and flying from the front seat is wonderful! I like the way you approached analyzing it in this video. Thanks!
You answered your own question. “If I could only have one I’d keep the Cub”. I’ve flown both Cubs and Champs. Champs and chiefs are great and many say they fly better than Cubs but… a Cub is a Cub and there is no substitute for the semi open cockpit experience and the skills it builds in its pilots. Love the videos and the discussion topics. Keep ‘em coming and fly safe.
When I fly a Cub i find that I spend most of the time looking out the open door and not straight ahead. The view is amazing. The most fun flying is thankfully the least expensive. Someone has to say it, "Introducing the all metal Luscombe..." Side by side with a stick. Hard combo to beat!
It's largely contingent upon what type of pilot you are, I learned in a J3, we currently have a Champ, my personal plane is a Pitts S-1C. I prefer the J3 to Champ for pure flying. You fly a J3 from the back so there is a better feel for yaw, it's narrower so you feel more a part of it rather than inside it, you sit lower and the stick is taller, which I much prefer. The Champ has a lot more space, is typically considered more comfortable (certainly for the passenger) and has extremely forgiving ground manners. Compared to the wild price of a J3 now, a Champ is an absolute steal, people are paying a wicked trend tax on all the Cubs. For most pilots, a 65hp Champ will do 95% of what a Carbon Cub does. Also, you can take the whole door off, which is unbeatable and rarely mentioned, we fly with the door off almost all summer
Well, you can fly an Aeronca from the back seat solo, so that’s not a feature for the Cub… oh wait, you HAVE to fly the Cub from the back seat. The Cub was never engineered; Bill Piper laid out the fuselage design with a piece of chalk on a hangar floor. And that, folks, is why the Super Cub was entirely reengineered.
I’ve asked many people if the door could be taken off in the champ like the Citabria, no one has said yes. This is good news that you’re giving. I’m in hot florida and looking for the open cockpit experience this summer.
@@JoeRendaRealty Highly recommend, we had a 7ECA before the C65 Champ, both flown with door off majority of the time in summer. National Aeronca Association has more info on this
Actually, I looked at a champ yesterday that had the door STC. I did not know that existed, but figured it might since I’ve owned a Citabria years ago that the door came off.
It’s stick and rudder flying plain and simple. I had the opportunity to fly an L-4 (J-3) after doing some work on it and with the right side completely open it made for an awesome experience which you don’t get with a yoke. I learned to fly in a Piper Colt with my dad. Loved that airplane. Taylorcraft, Aeronca, and Luscombe are all awesome too.
I'm not a pilot but when I was a kid my grandma's neighbor took me up in his J-3 Cub and it blew my mind! Later I bought a Cub RC plane and I've since flown in other planes but there is just something about that window down with the door open and the stick... If I was gonna buy a plane I'd just pay the premium😆
Great video Joe. I’ve got quite a bit of Cub time, some pre-war Chief time and I own a post war Chief. First of all, the post war Chief is a different airplane than yours which is a pre-war. The pre-war Chiefs are much less common than the post war. I definitely agree, the Chief are much nicer flying than the Cub. But maybe that’s not always the best thing. There’s a certain charm that comes from the Cub that can’t be found anywhere else. The center line seating gives the Cub pilot a much better feel for the airplane, especially on landing. As for the differences in the pre and post war Chief, I would say the Pre-war flies a little nicer than the post war. They have a different wing and the pre war is faster by 10 mph or so. Out of the pre and post war ships, I prefer the post war because there is considerably more room inside the cabin. It’s quite a bit more comfortable than the pre war, especially for the tall lanky guys like me. ;-)
I suspect it’s the reason why you would pick the cub, center line seating, stick and rudder. That configuration transforms the pilot enjoyment factor. True for my cub, true for my RV 8. Yoke and side by side, it becomes transportation and driving vehicle, vs a personal flying vehicle
I have lots of time in a champ and even more in the Cub. I feel the champ and chief are like landing a marshmallow. You are absolutely correct that a good landing can be deceiving whether you are actually on the ground.
Thank you for another outstanding video ❤. I absolutely enjoy your videos. I wish I could afford one of these beautiful planes. Life didn't allow it, and at this point I'm just enjoying them virtually through Microsoft flightsimulators. Real-world flying for me unfortunately isn't going to ever happen even though it's been my lifelong dream. I'm just thankful I have the virtual option. You are blessed Joe. I'm so glad I found your channel
A friend of mine bought his Taylorcraft for $13,000. Definitely not an award winner but it's mechanically sound. The Taylorcraft was a newer design than the Cub and it cruises significantly faster than a Cub (95 mph).
BC12D 85 HP is my favorite flier... Fun with the doors off. 85 chief or cub are great. 100 HP 0-200 is a great upgrade on all 3. Prop upgrade on all are amazingly beneficial.
When you started focusing on the suspension, I figured you probably had a motorsports background, turns out, you did. Very interesting. Your approach to this video was very motorsport-comparo-like. I like the Aeronca's. With the tandem, the pilot sits in the front, and the side-by-side is a choice the J-3 simply doesn't have. No one seems to hang big motors and tires on the Champs like they do the Cubs, so the Cub is like the Wrangler of the airplane world with the reputation as a "bush" plane.
I learned to fly in a Cub over 50 years ago and back then, depending on what you learned in, you tended to be either a Cub person or a Champ person and held an unfounded disdain for the other brand. I bought a 90hp 7EC Champ about 20 years ago and it has swayed me to the other side somewhat. I still have a soft spot for Cubs but I'm not going to pay 40 grand for one and honestly prefer my Champ for the comfort and convenience of having an electrical system and a starter. So, to answer your question, I think it's just a nostalgia thing. Boomers like me who have the extra money and a myth that you have to shoehorn yourself into the back seat of a J3 to re-experience the glory days. It's not true.
Two points: First, as cool as the Chief is -- and it is -- the Cub is iconic. Anything iconic always commands a higher price tag. Second, the heart wants what the heart wants. 😅 Both are beautiful birds though!
Probably a big reason is the military connection, beginning with the L-4 as a WW2 observation aircraft. My dad flew the F-84 to F-4, but his flight training began in a PA-18. So, lots of ex military have a nostalgic connection with the J-3.
Same thing with the Cessna 170 and the Aeronca Sedan. They are both 4 seat tail dragger with the same engine. Sedan for 40k 170 for 100k. 😊 mine was my grandfather's.
In my opinion, it basically comes down to mystique and to individual preference. The Cub has been around since before WWII and was pretty much THE light airplane in the minds of the public until the post-war years. The use of Cubs in the Civilian Pilot Training Program and its wartime service as the L-4 also helped cement its position in the public consciousness. I've flown the Cub, the Chief and the Champ, and I own a Champ. I like the sliding windows of the Champ/Chief better than the clamshell doors of the Cub. You get the same fresh-air feeling with much less danger of things getting sucked out of the airplane, but that's just my personal preference. From what I know of the history of Aeronca aircraft, the Champ was specifically designed to address some of the perceived shortcomings of the Cub, and it does so quite nicely (if you ask me), but people like what they like, and they just seem to like Cubs better than Chiefs or Champs.
There is something about flying with the door open that definitely adds value. My supercub could be flown with the door open J3 style. My new Carbon Cub cannot have the door open above 80 mph - probably the only thing I miss.
@@Cubonaut875 That's incredible. I think about my retirement gift to myself and think about what it would be like to actually go places and load up the plane with gear, lol
I just picked up a champ last month for around the higher end of a cub price tag…..however I got the O-200 Eng with 400 hrs on it, full electrical SYS with radio and transponder…..she flys great, I prefer Aeronca, I like the front seat solo, it’s faster, and I personally like the way it looks over a cub and chief…..no doubt cub takes the cake when it comes to most tail dragger fans I feel like…..I guess it just comes down to personal preference…….but if a cub or champ weren’t in my budget I would gladly purchase a good chief, they are all cool airplanes! Love the videos, keep them coming
@@Bananasssssssss I have a 2 year old, I am gonna wait a little while before I take her up, just wanna make sure I’m 💯 in this champ, earned my tail wheel endorsement last week and it’s going smooth….also your Instagram account inspired me to buy a vintage tail dragger, and so far I’m loving it lol so thankyou !
@@hansenfuentes3541 good thinking!! I waited until mine were around 3. I wasn’t confident in my skills for a while 😂. Also wanted to make sure they could communicate effectively with me
I fly a Champ and love it. I also fit in the Champ better. As far as the open flying, you can take the door off of the Champ. Fantastic for summer flying 👍
The Cub was the first GA airplane I got introduced too. I think it’s America’s classic airplane. I like the stick, and the narrow feel. I think it’s just a better looking airplane. Feels like a poor man’s Mustang lmao.
We own a 1947 Champ 7BCM (a bush wheeled C-85 L-16) and it flies more like a Cub Special (PA-11) or early flapless Super Cub (PA-18-95) than a J-3 (however it has a climb prop). The door is off all summer. Flying door off feels extremely exposed at altitude vs. the Piper but is dreamy on grass - slipping with the door off makes you grateful for seatbelts. Some of the happiest pilots are J-3 owners with Stroker 85s and 26s. Prices are up on all these vintage planes!
Many people read articles and reviews. They always bash the aeronca landing gear. Also most people want a side by side for 2 people and the chief and Taylor craft are both 2 tight. They're great for 1 person. I have flown both. I also had a tcraft and it flies better than all of them on 65 hp. And it costs about the same as a chief. But as has been mentioned the cub and champ are iconic.
I've never understood why the Cub always seemed to place ahead of the Taylor craft, Chief, Champ. The Cessna 140, Luscombe, were a step up from the others. I always loved all the first group. My dad gave me dual in all of them. If they were sitting side by side, I would probably take the J3, then the Champ. He always warned about the short coupling of the Chief on windy crosswind landings. It would, at a moment of inattention, would hand you a very fast ground loop. Again I guess it's the old nostalgia thing, so many Cubs taught people to fly back then, the mass production of Piper. I don't know the answer, so when you get a true answer, please let us know. Good luck, love your videos of both of those beautiful airplanes. God bless and keep em flying right side up.
Taylorcrafts have been 18-23k for the last 25yrs. I bought a ‘46 Taylorcraft in 2006 for $21k. Sold it in 2016 for $22k and they are selling for the same price or slightly less today. I have no idea why. They are phenomenal airplanes. Better than a J-3 in almost every way in my opinion.
I had an 85hp 1946 11BC chief for 13 years. I now have a 90 hp J3. The chief was by far more comfortable, faster and had the best landing gear. The cub uses less runway, has better brakes and has a better”cool factor”. That being said, if I had the choice between buying a chief or a cub, I would buy the chief.
I love your channel Joe! I am currently building a Fisher Flying Products Super Koala, which looks like a Cob but is more like the Chief in that it's a side by side. I am considering building the fuselage with port and starboard cub style doors in place of the single starboard hinged door per the plan.
We had a little triangle yellow sign hanging in our champ that read ( NO ITS NOT A CUB ) We had a 46 champ and a 47 chief chief two doors flew great champ one door with stc could be removed the big advantage over the cub was the view over the nose, but remember the champ and chief came much later than the cub thanks joe love that hangar ,,dan
You can thank Gordon Baxter for making the cub famous during the 1970s with his well written articles in aviation magazines! Ever since then Cubs have been in demand!
There's a lot of buzz in the aviation community over J3 Cubs. It seems like it has a lot to do with Kern and Rinker Buck and, more recently, all the inspiration you create from owning and flying a cub. I have never flown either of these planes, nor have I had the pleasure of flying a taildragger. Hopefully some day.
Love your videos. Do you have any thoughts on a TaylorCraft? I’ve a great opportunity to buy one but I’ve never even flown even in a Cub. I have a 150 and a 1959- 172. Love both but no TW aircraft. Thanks
The cub is more because it can go more places (off airport), has more aftermarket support - it can be upgraded. The cub enters the bottom of the “bush pilot” market - meaning I can upgrade the engine and get great STOL performance, I can upgrade to wing tanks, I can also put bigger breaks and tires on it. The cub just has more it can do, along with the open door experience.
Duting the last 10 years everything I've flown (Glider and J3C) has had a stick. My J3C has had no brakes either and now I've revived the Cub original brakes but have only liI've never imited use for them. I owned a 1956 C172 and flown rental Cherokee 140 and C150. I always wanted to fly open cockpit but never have had the opportunity. I like the Cub's "stall indicator" and actually have gotten to the point I even prefer no flaps. There's nothing to better to land with the open door and sliping to landing. Some day I'll get the opportunity to fly a tail dragger with a yoke but not really looking forward to it. I think the Chief would bounce at my home airport which is pretty grass over lumppy dry clay. Watch you from the back seat looks just as it does from the back seat of my 1946 J3C-65. I hope I made a little bit of sense.
You are paying for nostalgia with the cub. I have hours in the J3 and the 7DC. The Champ is superior in all ways. Comfort, visibility, cruising speed, take off performance and handling. I like the Chief but find the visibility limited which at a busy airport is a concern.
Cub owner here. Cub prices have been higher than their counterparts at least since the 1980’s. I remember when people made fun of people who paid $4500 for a J3 when they could have bought a Champ for $2500. Nowadays we just add a zero to those prices. Also, I doubt that any other small vintage airplane has the level of parts support that the J3 Cub has. Cheap? No. Available? Yes!
One of my favorite light taildraggers is a C-90 Champ. Personally, I would rather fly a Chief, Tcraft BC12 (not a BL), or Luscombe, or Porterfield than a Cub. I am not nocking the Cub, I just think the other airplanes fly better. A BC12 is normally the best value IMO. Just make sure you can get in and out of one easy enough first! 😂 Try to stick with a Contenental A or C series engine.
I bought side by side so my kids first flights could be beside me so they'd be comfortable. Else I'd have bought a Champ or one of a dozen sport lights (aka advanced ultralights here in canada)
I've been saying the same thing for decades, the old Chiefs are bargain aircraft. Maybe it's more because of stick control verses yolk control that people are willing to pay more for? The Champs and Cubs always cost more than the side by side seating gems such as the Chief Taylorcraft and Luscombe airplanes of the same vintage.
@@Bananasssssssss It certainly easier to slide across a bench seat in an airplane or a car when there are no obstructions on the floor. Car and truck collectors are a fickle lot of people too. They pay more for a shifter on the floor than one on the steering column even though you have more leg freedom with it on the column.
@@Bananasssssssss better get going before some other airline grabs spirit and you lose a bunch of seniority. Besides the commute to EWR is just about the same as to Philly. Good luck.
I have my dads old 140 just kinda putt around the area. Before that i flew a kemmeries aviation trike which in ways i liked better maybe the Cubs in the middle because i really want one. The 140 is like riding a fully dressed motorcycle to go to 711 the cubs like hopping on a dual sport and trike is like one of the naked fast bikes if that makes sense
Love the video. I’m getting one for sure. If you were in florida where it’s hot as heck down low would the clam shell door be a big deal. That’s what I’ve been thinking. I’m going to sell my Archer because I just want to fly these days. Not necessarily go anywhere
Thanks for the reply. One of your commenters also just said a champ can be flown with the door off. I guess I’ll need to look into that also, but I’m thinking the Cub is the way for me.
There is one inarguable reason why the Cub is superior to the Aeronca… the Cub logo is soo cute! Other than that the Aeroncas are superior in every way. Incidentally, the open Cub door is great… for the first fifteen minutes. Incidentally, they made six times more Aeroncas than Cubs… which explains the cost discrepancy; rarity increases value. I soloed a 150 Super Cub in 1965. Twelve-hundred hours in Super Cubs and Champs. Incidentally… I’d take a Super Cub over anything… but the Cub is NOT a Super Cub. They engineered out the defects of the Cub when they reengineered the Super Cub. The Cub is the most silly overrated taildragger on the ramp. Oh, you soloed out in a Cub? That explains everything.
Go ahead an' enjoy your Chiefs an' Champs, and if the landing gear suspension is so important to you, then revel in that. I'll keep my Cub. All the other classic/small Continental/post WWII airplanes; they're all excellent aircraft. Most of 'em are faster, maybe more comfortable than a Cub, an' some people want side-by-side seating, or a control yoke. Give me a Cub.
The J-3 is more sketchy on the controls once on the ground, I think it might be considered a right of passage because of its reputation, I think I would prefer the Chief.
How many people has built a radio controlled model of a chief? How many RC Kits out there for the chief? I think the name matters a lot. Just like you can get a perfectly good leather handbag that isn't luxury brands, but put on a desirable label and it's worth multiple times the perfectly servable bag. I guess that might make "hey honey I want to buy a cub" an easier conversation? Kidding...
Cub is the most over rated airplane in aviation. A Champ is better in every respect. A Chief is also a great airplane and is the best value in aviation.
Nike vs Hey Dude…that’s really what it boils down to when you cut away all the nonsense. People recognize the Piper name. It has “prestige” and “legacy” with the American public. Rightfully so…people have been puttering around the skies in Pipers for almost a hundred years. Piper sits next to Cessna in the lexicon of general aviation. Does that take away from other manufacturers? Absolutely not! Ercoupe, Aeronca, Taylorcraft…all companies that put out great products in the mid 20th century. But you get them for cheaper because they don’t sit on the Mount Rushmore of aviation.
The name CUB is what makes the difference, not the flying attributes. Same as Mercedes versus Lexus. If you want to fly on a limited budget, less is best.
I got my 41 in October of last year for 15k. There are three on Barnstormers right now for 18k. And I’d bet all three of those would sell for less than asking price. There are lots of dreamers out there, but not that many people who are actually serious about buying a vintage 65hp taildragger! 😂
How About This,,,, An Aeronca Chief Is NOT,,,, One Third (1/3) The Airplane,,,, The Cub or Aeronca "Air Knocker" Is... The Aeronca Chief Is One "UGLY FLYING" Airplane,,, When Compared To a "Cub" or "Champ",,,,
My uncle had a chief back in the 60s. He kept it at the family farm. The first time he took me up, the wind changed speed and direction in an unexpected way. He turned it around but we were onlt making walking speed over the ground. Sometimes we appeared to be flying backwards. he turned back downwind, got on the radio and found that Des Moine had much better weather so we made the 150 mile detour. Spent the night in a motel (a first for me at age 7) and he took me out for a steak, another first. We had a big breakfast the next day and kind of goofed off on thflight home. Back in the 1920s and30s they painted ads on the top of barns and such along low altitude airline routes. so flew around readind ads or just spotting something interesting. Its a vivid happy memory
That's awesome. Golden age of aviation type stuff there
Just bought a 47’ Chief with a C-85 as my first plane. It’s exactly what I wanted in a classic, I even got the skis with it too. I’ve flown and instructed in Cub’s, Champ’s and Chief’s. I like the side by side seating with my wife next to me. I never liked sticks in a side by side. My Chief is such a cruiser. It’s fast enough to go where I want to go! I have nothing against a Champ. It’s another great taildragger. However, I wanted the side by side for my mission. To me, the Champ addressed the things I don’t like about the Cub. But what matters most, is that these old planes are restored and flown! It doesn’t matter the make/model. Just get out and fly what you like!!!
Well said!
I have my dad's Champ he bought in 1961. I soloed it in 1971(I'm old) The Champ is responsible for my 40 year airline career and is a family heirloom. I'm building a Cub now as we had a 85hp J-3 and I loved it. In the past 50 years I've owned a '40 BL65 T-Craft , a Porterfield and a C-180. You're spot on about the Chief, great airplane, any model.
Don't forget the undervalued Taylorcraft as well! I love my fully electric 85hp BC12D... but I do very often miss the visibility, stick, back-seat flying, and open door experience of the L-4 Cub I first learned to fly in...
Cheif or Taylorcraft?
I picked up my Beautiful clean little Vegabond for 20 Canadian, I love the cub but I just can't justify the money. The Vegabond does 90 mph on 65 hp, has good heat in the winter and has dual stick control, I love the little airplane. After the war they assembled them with leftover J 3 parts so it's pretty cub like. I picked up an Aeronca project about 10 years ago for 2500 dollars that's nearing completion. now, That will be my long distance airplane, dual wing tanks and Lycoming o235.
Love the videos, Thanks
Love Vagabonds. Great choice
My father and I just got a champ and could not be more pleased with it. Visibility is fantastic, the gear is soft, the room is nice and flying from the front seat is wonderful! I like the way you approached analyzing it in this video. Thanks!
You answered your own question. “If I could only have one I’d keep the Cub”. I’ve flown both Cubs and Champs. Champs and chiefs are great and many say they fly better than Cubs but… a Cub is a Cub and there is no substitute for the semi open cockpit experience and the skills it builds in its pilots. Love the videos and the discussion topics. Keep ‘em coming and fly safe.
Thanks!
When I fly a Cub i find that I spend most of the time looking out the open door and not straight ahead. The view is amazing. The most fun flying is thankfully the least expensive.
Someone has to say it, "Introducing the all metal Luscombe..." Side by side with a stick. Hard combo to beat!
They are beautiful planes! Friend has an 8E
It's largely contingent upon what type of pilot you are, I learned in a J3, we currently have a Champ, my personal plane is a Pitts S-1C. I prefer the J3 to Champ for pure flying. You fly a J3 from the back so there is a better feel for yaw, it's narrower so you feel more a part of it rather than inside it, you sit lower and the stick is taller, which I much prefer. The Champ has a lot more space, is typically considered more comfortable (certainly for the passenger) and has extremely forgiving ground manners. Compared to the wild price of a J3 now, a Champ is an absolute steal, people are paying a wicked trend tax on all the Cubs. For most pilots, a 65hp Champ will do 95% of what a Carbon Cub does. Also, you can take the whole door off, which is unbeatable and rarely mentioned, we fly with the door off almost all summer
Well, you can fly an Aeronca from the back seat solo, so that’s not a feature for the Cub… oh wait, you HAVE to fly the Cub from the back seat. The Cub was never engineered; Bill Piper laid out the fuselage design with a piece of chalk on a hangar floor. And that, folks, is why the Super Cub was entirely reengineered.
I’ve asked many people if the door could be taken off in the champ like the Citabria, no one has said yes. This is good news that you’re giving. I’m in hot florida and looking for the open cockpit experience this summer.
@@JoeRendaRealty Highly recommend, we had a 7ECA before the C65 Champ, both flown with door off majority of the time in summer. National Aeronca Association has more info on this
It's a STC, easy to get but the STC paperwork is needed.@@JoeRendaRealty
Actually, I looked at a champ yesterday that had the door STC. I did not know that existed, but figured it might since I’ve owned a Citabria years ago that the door came off.
It’s stick and rudder flying plain and simple. I had the opportunity to fly an L-4 (J-3) after doing some work on it and with the right side completely open it made for an awesome experience which you don’t get with a yoke. I learned to fly in a Piper Colt with my dad. Loved that airplane. Taylorcraft, Aeronca, and Luscombe are all awesome too.
people must have a cub like people must have a harley davidson
I'm not a pilot but when I was a kid my grandma's neighbor took me up in his J-3 Cub and it blew my mind! Later I bought a Cub RC plane and I've since flown in other planes but there is just something about that window down with the door open and the stick... If I was gonna buy a plane I'd just pay the premium😆
Great video Joe. I’ve got quite a bit of Cub time, some pre-war Chief time and I own a post war Chief. First of all, the post war Chief is a different airplane than yours which is a pre-war. The pre-war Chiefs are much less common than the post war. I definitely agree, the Chief are much nicer flying than the Cub. But maybe that’s not always the best thing. There’s a certain charm that comes from the Cub that can’t be found anywhere else. The center line seating gives the Cub pilot a much better feel for the airplane, especially on landing. As for the differences in the pre and post war Chief, I would say the Pre-war flies a little nicer than the post war. They have a different wing and the pre war is faster by 10 mph or so. Out of the pre and post war ships, I prefer the post war because there is considerably more room inside the cabin. It’s quite a bit more comfortable than the pre war, especially for the tall lanky guys like me. ;-)
I suspect it’s the reason why you would pick the cub, center line seating, stick and rudder.
That configuration transforms the pilot enjoyment factor. True for my cub, true for my RV 8.
Yoke and side by side, it becomes transportation and driving vehicle, vs a personal flying vehicle
I have lots of time in a champ and even more in the Cub. I feel the champ and chief are like landing a marshmallow. You are absolutely correct that a good landing can be deceiving whether you are actually on the ground.
Because it’s a Cub. It’s iconic.
pretty much what it comes down to. Hard to pinpoint it but those who know, know
My dad has a 46 champ and I love how it flys but always thought that a cub looked cooler. The cub seems sportier and more iconic.
Thank you for another outstanding video ❤. I absolutely enjoy your videos. I wish I could afford one of these beautiful planes. Life didn't allow it, and at this point I'm just enjoying them virtually through Microsoft flightsimulators. Real-world flying for me unfortunately isn't going to ever happen even though it's been my lifelong dream. I'm just thankful I have the virtual option. You are blessed Joe. I'm so glad I found your channel
Thank you for that!
A friend of mine bought his Taylorcraft for $13,000. Definitely not an award winner but it's mechanically sound. The Taylorcraft was a newer design than the Cub and it cruises significantly faster than a Cub (95 mph).
actually another really good option!
BC12D 85 HP is my favorite flier... Fun with the doors off.
85 chief or cub are great.
100 HP 0-200 is a great upgrade on all 3.
Prop upgrade on all are amazingly beneficial.
When you started focusing on the suspension, I figured you probably had a motorsports background, turns out, you did. Very interesting. Your approach to this video was very motorsport-comparo-like. I like the Aeronca's. With the tandem, the pilot sits in the front, and the side-by-side is a choice the J-3 simply doesn't have. No one seems to hang big motors and tires on the Champs like they do the Cubs, so the Cub is like the Wrangler of the airplane world with the reputation as a "bush" plane.
I learned to fly in a Cub over 50 years ago and back then, depending on what you learned in, you tended to be either a Cub person or a Champ person and held an unfounded disdain for the other brand. I bought a 90hp 7EC Champ about 20 years ago and it has swayed me to the other side somewhat. I still have a soft spot for Cubs but I'm not going to pay 40 grand for one and honestly prefer my Champ for the comfort and convenience of having an electrical system and a starter. So, to answer your question, I think it's just a nostalgia thing. Boomers like me who have the extra money and a myth that you have to shoehorn yourself into the back seat of a J3 to re-experience the glory days. It's not true.
Two points:
First, as cool as the Chief is -- and it is -- the Cub is iconic. Anything iconic always commands a higher price tag.
Second, the heart wants what the heart wants. 😅
Both are beautiful birds though!
No argument there! The Cub will always have my heart!, lol
Probably a big reason is the military connection, beginning with the L-4 as a WW2 observation aircraft. My dad flew the F-84 to F-4, but his flight training began in a PA-18. So, lots of ex military have a nostalgic connection with the J-3.
Same thing with the Cessna 170 and the Aeronca Sedan. They are both 4 seat tail dragger with the same engine. Sedan for 40k 170 for 100k. 😊 mine was my grandfather's.
My training was split between a Pacer and a Chief. They were both super fun birds.
In my opinion, it basically comes down to mystique and to individual preference. The Cub has been around since before WWII and was pretty much THE light airplane in the minds of the public until the post-war years. The use of Cubs in the Civilian Pilot Training Program and its wartime service as the L-4 also helped cement its position in the public consciousness. I've flown the Cub, the Chief and the Champ, and I own a Champ. I like the sliding windows of the Champ/Chief better than the clamshell doors of the Cub. You get the same fresh-air feeling with much less danger of things getting sucked out of the airplane, but that's just my personal preference. From what I know of the history of Aeronca aircraft, the Champ was specifically designed to address some of the perceived shortcomings of the Cub, and it does so quite nicely (if you ask me), but people like what they like, and they just seem to like Cubs better than Chiefs or Champs.
2:46 whoa, that is a great shot
@@BmHabib017 thank you!
There is something about flying with the door open that definitely adds value. My supercub could be flown with the door open J3 style. My new Carbon Cub cannot have the door open above 80 mph - probably the only thing I miss.
I didn't know that about those. What does that cruise at, 100-110-ish?
@@Bananasssssssss actually the FX3 with the constant speed prop cruises about 120-125 mph - amazing
@@Cubonaut875 That's incredible. I think about my retirement gift to myself and think about what it would be like to actually go places and load up the plane with gear, lol
@@Bananasssssssss185 time
@@Bananasssssssss That is kind of exactly what it was - a retirement gift. I have yet to fully retire and load it up however!
I just picked up a champ last month for around the higher end of a cub price tag…..however I got the O-200 Eng with 400 hrs on it, full electrical SYS with radio and transponder…..she flys great, I prefer Aeronca, I like the front seat solo, it’s faster, and I personally like the way it looks over a cub and chief…..no doubt cub takes the cake when it comes to most tail dragger fans I feel like…..I guess it just comes down to personal preference…….but if a cub or champ weren’t in my budget I would gladly purchase a good chief, they are all cool airplanes! Love the videos, keep them coming
All good points! I do wish I had an electrical system when it comes to flying with my kids. Would make it much easier
@@Bananasssssssss I have a 2 year old, I am gonna wait a little while before I take her up, just wanna make sure I’m 💯 in this champ, earned my tail wheel endorsement last week and it’s going smooth….also your Instagram account inspired me to buy a vintage tail dragger, and so far I’m loving it lol so thankyou !
@@hansenfuentes3541 good thinking!! I waited until mine were around 3. I wasn’t confident in my skills for a while 😂. Also wanted to make sure they could communicate effectively with me
I fly a Champ and love it. I also fit in the Champ better. As far as the open flying, you can take the door off of the Champ. Fantastic for summer flying 👍
The Cub was the first GA airplane I got introduced too. I think it’s America’s classic airplane. I like the stick, and the narrow feel. I think it’s just a better looking airplane. Feels like a poor man’s Mustang lmao.
We own a 1947 Champ 7BCM (a bush wheeled C-85 L-16) and it flies more like a Cub Special (PA-11) or early flapless Super Cub (PA-18-95) than a J-3 (however it has a climb prop). The door is off all summer. Flying door off feels extremely exposed at altitude vs. the Piper but is dreamy on grass - slipping with the door off makes you grateful for seatbelts. Some of the happiest pilots are J-3 owners with Stroker 85s and 26s. Prices are up on all these vintage planes!
That 85 Stroker is on my wish list!
Many people read articles and reviews. They always bash the aeronca landing gear. Also most people want a side by side for 2 people and the chief and Taylor craft are both 2 tight. They're great for 1 person. I have flown both. I also had a tcraft and it flies better than all of them on 65 hp. And it costs about the same as a chief. But as has been mentioned the cub and champ are iconic.
I've never understood why the Cub always seemed to place ahead of the Taylor craft, Chief, Champ.
The Cessna 140, Luscombe, were a step up from the others.
I always loved all the first group. My dad gave me dual in all of them. If they were sitting side by side, I would probably take the J3, then the Champ.
He always warned about the short coupling of the Chief on windy crosswind landings. It would, at a moment of inattention, would hand you a very fast ground loop.
Again I guess it's the old nostalgia thing, so many Cubs taught people to fly back then, the mass production of Piper. I don't know the answer, so when you get a true answer, please let us know.
Good luck, love your videos of both of those beautiful airplanes.
God bless and keep em flying right side up.
Your dad was absolutely correct about the Chief!, lol. Any amount of crosswind in it keeps me quite humbled lol
Taylorcrafts have been 18-23k for the last 25yrs. I bought a ‘46 Taylorcraft in 2006 for $21k. Sold it in 2016 for $22k and they are selling for the same price or slightly less today. I have no idea why. They are phenomenal airplanes. Better than a J-3 in almost every way in my opinion.
agreed
I had an 85hp 1946 11BC chief for 13 years. I now have a 90 hp J3. The chief was by far more comfortable, faster and had the best landing gear. The cub uses less runway, has better brakes and has a better”cool factor”.
That being said, if I had the choice between buying a chief or a cub, I would buy the chief.
How much fun is the 90Hp J-3 though? I have a blast with the 65HP, can't imagine the climb rate with a 90
I love your channel Joe! I am currently building a Fisher Flying Products Super Koala, which looks like a Cob but is more like the Chief in that it's a side by side. I am considering building the fuselage with port and starboard cub style doors in place of the single starboard hinged door per the plan.
I remember six decades ago when I started flying students who learned on Champs soloed sooner than those learning in Cubs
We had a little triangle yellow sign hanging in our champ that read ( NO ITS NOT A CUB ) We had a 46 champ and a 47 chief chief two doors flew great champ one door with stc could be removed
the big advantage over the cub was the view over the nose, but remember the champ and chief came much later than the cub thanks joe love that hangar ,,dan
You can thank Gordon Baxter for making the cub famous during the 1970s with his well written articles in aviation magazines! Ever since then Cubs have been in demand!
Most of my time is in a Champ with a little time in Cubs and Chiefs but love the Champ.
There's a lot of buzz in the aviation community over J3 Cubs. It seems like it has a lot to do with Kern and Rinker Buck and, more recently, all the inspiration you create from owning and flying a cub.
I have never flown either of these planes, nor have I had the pleasure of flying a taildragger. Hopefully some day.
Love your videos. Do you have any thoughts on a TaylorCraft? I’ve a great opportunity to buy one but I’ve never even flown even in a Cub. I have a 150 and a 1959- 172. Love both but no TW aircraft. Thanks
I flew a Champ ...in the early days....very very cool aircraft...
The cub is more because it can go more places (off airport), has more aftermarket support - it can be upgraded. The cub enters the bottom of the “bush pilot” market - meaning I can upgrade the engine and get great STOL performance, I can upgrade to wing tanks, I can also put bigger breaks and tires on it.
The cub just has more it can do, along with the open door experience.
Would love to own a Chief like yours, it is a beautiful airplane to me!
It really is! very fortunate to be able to fly both
Duting the last 10 years everything I've flown (Glider and J3C) has had a stick. My J3C has had no brakes either and now I've revived the Cub original brakes but have only liI've never imited use for them. I owned a 1956 C172 and flown rental Cherokee 140 and C150. I always wanted to fly open cockpit but never have had the opportunity. I like the Cub's "stall indicator" and actually have gotten to the point I even prefer no flaps. There's nothing to better to land with the open door and sliping to landing. Some day I'll get the opportunity to fly a tail dragger with a yoke but not really looking forward to it. I think the Chief would bounce at my home airport which is pretty grass over lumppy dry clay. Watch you from the back seat looks just as it does from the back seat of my 1946 J3C-65. I hope I made a little bit of sense.
I would take both in a heartbeat!
Can't go wrong with either
I grabbed my Champ 7EC for $12,5k USD in 2016. It certainly was about half the price of a Cub. More room in a Champ and easier to get in and out of.
You are paying for nostalgia with the cub. I have hours in the J3 and the 7DC. The Champ is superior in all ways. Comfort, visibility, cruising speed, take off performance and handling. I like the Chief but find the visibility limited which at a busy airport is a concern.
Cub owner here. Cub prices have been higher than their counterparts at least since the 1980’s. I remember when people made fun of people who paid $4500 for a J3 when they could have bought a Champ for $2500. Nowadays we just add a zero to those prices. Also, I doubt that any other small vintage airplane has the level of parts support that the J3 Cub has. Cheap? No. Available? Yes!
Good point, it is nice to go online and easily find parts for the J-3. The Pre-War Chief, not so much
One of my favorite light taildraggers is a C-90 Champ. Personally, I would rather fly a Chief, Tcraft BC12 (not a BL), or Luscombe, or Porterfield than a Cub. I am not nocking the Cub, I just think the other airplanes fly better. A BC12 is normally the best value IMO. Just make sure you can get in and out of one easy enough first! 😂 Try to stick with a Contenental A or C series engine.
Bought my 100hp 48 Chief for 25k Canadian. Came with skis. Its been awesome so far.
"Warm in the winter" is an understatement. I have to half close the cabin heat because I'm sweating with no coat in -15C
I bought side by side so my kids first flights could be beside me so they'd be comfortable. Else I'd have bought a Champ or one of a dozen sport lights (aka advanced ultralights here in canada)
that's brutally cold, lol
@@Bananasssssssss noooo! That's nice dense dry air!
I've been saying the same thing for decades, the old Chiefs are bargain aircraft.
Maybe it's more because of stick control verses yolk control that people are willing to pay more for?
The Champs and Cubs always cost more than the side by side seating gems such as the Chief Taylorcraft and Luscombe airplanes of the same vintage.
I actually like the Yoke in the Chief, seems more fitting for a Side by Side. When I fly my friends Luscombe I feel awkward with a stick, lol.
@@Bananasssssssss It certainly easier to slide across a bench seat in an airplane or a car when there are no obstructions on the floor.
Car and truck collectors are a fickle lot of people too. They pay more for a shifter on the floor than one on the steering column even though you have more leg freedom with it on the column.
I agree if you are only going to have one it would be the CUB!
Are you going to be at WW2 weekend on Friday?
Yup!
I would rather fly a champ than a Cub. That gear is the Aeronca “no bounce” gear.🤗. You figure out if you’re going to the left seat at UAL yet?
Ha! not yet. maybe in the future though, who knows
@@Bananasssssssss better get going before some other airline grabs spirit and you lose a bunch of seniority. Besides the commute to EWR is just about the same as to Philly. Good luck.
I have my dads old 140 just kinda putt around the area. Before that i flew a kemmeries aviation trike which in ways i liked better maybe the Cubs in the middle because i really want one. The 140 is like riding a fully dressed motorcycle to go to 711 the cubs like hopping on a dual sport and trike is like one of the naked fast bikes if that makes sense
makes perfect sense
Love the video. I’m getting one for sure. If you were in florida where it’s hot as heck down low would the clam shell door be a big deal. That’s what I’ve been thinking.
I’m going to sell my Archer because I just want to fly these days. Not necessarily go anywhere
Can’t beat door down in Florida. The best flying you’ll ever do
Thanks for the reply. One of your commenters also just said a champ can be flown with the door off. I guess I’ll need to look into that also, but I’m thinking the Cub is the way for me.
@@JoeRendaRealty I don’t think you’ll regret the Cub. Its really special for sure
I’ll send pictures when I get one.
There is one inarguable reason why the Cub is superior to the Aeronca… the Cub logo is soo cute!
Other than that the Aeroncas are superior in every way.
Incidentally, the open Cub door is great… for the first fifteen minutes.
Incidentally, they made six times more Aeroncas than Cubs… which explains the cost discrepancy; rarity increases value.
I soloed a 150 Super Cub in 1965. Twelve-hundred hours in Super Cubs and Champs.
Incidentally… I’d take a Super Cub over anything… but the Cub is NOT a Super Cub. They engineered out the defects of the Cub when they reengineered the Super Cub.
The Cub is the most silly overrated taildragger on the ramp.
Oh, you soloed out in a Cub? That explains everything.
I am just curious, can a tall guy fit in the cockpit? Someone that is 6’2”? Love the idea of it.
Yeah, wouldn’t be the most comfortable but doable. Look up Airshow performer RJ Gritter. He is pretty tall and does a routine in a J3
Go ahead an' enjoy your Chiefs an' Champs, and if the landing gear suspension is so important to you, then revel in that.
I'll keep my Cub.
All the other classic/small Continental/post WWII airplanes; they're all excellent aircraft. Most of 'em are faster, maybe more comfortable than a Cub, an' some people want side-by-side seating, or a control yoke.
Give me a Cub.
The J-3 is more sketchy on the controls once on the ground, I think it might be considered a right of passage because of its reputation, I think I would prefer the Chief.
Need a little love for the Aeronca champ!
It’s all about the door, stick and centerline seating!! Can’t get it anywhere else for even close to the cost of a J3
Very true
I’m thinking the value of the Chief just went up!
If i was buying an aircraft i want control stick and tailwheel not sure about the seating arrangement
The Chief does not have "Oleo" struts, far from it. The last I checked it has a bunch of cupped washers and grease.
You gonna take the chief to Oshkosh would love to see it
Don't think so. I need something that can carry all my camera gear and camping stuff, lol
How would an Aeronca K compare to J3
Champs a good choice Also 0:38 0:40
definitely,. Can fly from the front, better visibility, less expensive
How many people has built a radio controlled model of a chief? How many RC Kits out there for the chief? I think the name matters a lot. Just like you can get a perfectly good leather handbag that isn't luxury brands, but put on a desirable label and it's worth multiple times the perfectly servable bag. I guess that might make "hey honey I want to buy a cub" an easier conversation? Kidding...
Aeronca is even bettter in many ways IMO especially has better less bouncy landing main gear
The gear is fantastic
Arent aeroncas harder to ladn take off and taxi?
I think so, yeah
I prefer the champ over the cub. It's just to hard to beat a champ for fun flying
Cub is the most over rated airplane in aviation. A Champ is better in every respect. A Chief is also a great airplane and is the best value in aviation.
Yeah but the Open door is really kinda awesome, fun to rip around low and slow
@@Bananasssssssss Fly my Champ around door off all the time.
Next video: 1939 Aeronca Chief for sale $29,999. Way to cultivate the story 😉
😂😂 yours for a low low price! “Cheaper than a Cub!” 😂
@@Bananasssssssss I’ve actually got some sweet footage of a Chief on floats up here in Minnesota. Need to put it together…
Nike vs Hey Dude…that’s really what it boils down to when you cut away all the nonsense. People recognize the Piper name. It has “prestige” and “legacy” with the American public. Rightfully so…people have been puttering around the skies in Pipers for almost a hundred years. Piper sits next to Cessna in the lexicon of general aviation. Does that take away from other manufacturers? Absolutely not! Ercoupe, Aeronca, Taylorcraft…all companies that put out great products in the mid 20th century. But you get them for cheaper because they don’t sit on the Mount Rushmore of aviation.
Why is Instrumentation so low?
Not sure why they designed it that way
The name CUB is what makes the difference, not the flying attributes. Same as Mercedes versus Lexus. If you want to fly on a limited budget, less is best.
Because… Cub!
Watch yo mouth Joe, you gonna fudge up Aeronca prices
😂😂 I’m telling you, these are phenomenal airplanes.
After the release of this video the price of J-3s rose by 15% /s
😂😂
So go sell your Cub and buy a couple more Chiefs.
I dont know what drug you are smokimg..i ask you to scour the barnstormers and trade a plane to find an airworthy chief for $15,000
Literally the Chief in the Video, the one We own 😂
@@BananasssssssssOK but that wasnt on Barnstormers for that price, was it?
I got my 41 in October of last year for 15k. There are three on Barnstormers right now for 18k. And I’d bet all three of those would sell for less than asking price. There are lots of dreamers out there, but not that many people who are actually serious about buying a vintage 65hp taildragger! 😂
How About This,,,, An Aeronca Chief Is NOT,,,, One Third (1/3) The Airplane,,,, The Cub or Aeronca "Air Knocker" Is... The Aeronca Chief Is One "UGLY FLYING" Airplane,,, When Compared To a "Cub" or "Champ",,,,