Roof Rafters and Rafter Ties
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ต.ค. 2024
- Tim Carter talks about rafters, rafter ties, and collar ties. Collar ties are in the upper 1/3 of the roof. Rafter ties almost always sit on the top plate of the walls. They form the base of the triangle that prevents the roof from sagging and collapsing. You can also install gusset plates near the ridge. These plates perform the same task not allowing the rafters to spread under the force of gravity.
Beware trusting the building code about the DEPTH or HEIGHT of a ridge board. The current code states that the ridge board should be the same or greater height than the plumb cut of the rafter. Have you ever asked yourself WHY this should be the case? Did you know there are thousands and thousands of OLD HOUSES in the USA where the ridge board is a simple 1x6 and the rafters are 2x8s with much longer plumb cuts? These roofs have NEVER COLLAPESED.
STOP TRUSTING what you see in the building code and STOP BLINDLY accepting it. The code used to say, and it still might, that you do NOT have to put a water barrier on wood-framed houses if the gap behind brick or stone is greater than 3/4 inch. This is INSANITY!!! All brick and stone veneers leak VAST AMOUNTS of water during wind-driven rainstorms.
I could go on and on and on about HORRIBLE building practices mandated by the code.
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I just bought my first home, and I have been searching forever to find a video like this before i vaulted my ceilings. Thank you so much for taking the time to do this. I love that you not only explain each of these elements, but also referred to the many different things they can be called.
You are so welcome! Go up and click that *Thanks* text link under the video to help support my channel.
Rafter ties, wall ties when not using ceiling joists as in some garages. For new cut and stack roofs use straps spanning from rafter to rafter over the ridge board to better unitize roof system. And normally code requires ridge board to be no smaller than rafter cut. But with a shed no big deal. Thanks for sharing.
Aren't collar ties near peak and rafter ties at top of wall?
Some believe this to be true...
@@askthebuilder , I guess it's just a name. As long as they get installed is important thing
Collar ties and rafter ties are not the same and serve different purposes. Yes, collar ties are typically installed in the upper 1/3 of area from ridge. The purpose of the collar ties, is to prevent separation of the rafters from the ridge during wind uplift. The rafter ties, installed at the base, as nicely explained by the video host prevent exterior walls from kicking out.
Thanks for this. Perfect timing! 💯I am looking at the spacious gambrel roof attic to continue on from deluxe storage to living space. I have learned so much about collar ties and thickness of them for code in CANADA 🇨🇦 for a load to be placed in them. Double the width of the joist (or collar tie) and 100% of span coverage can happen, (2x6 to 2x12). Double the thickness of the joist (collar tie) and only 25% of span can be increased (2x6 to 4x6). Two story gambrel roof with wanting to make the spacious attic into a third from a beautiful storage space at the moment, will need to beef up the width first if a twin bed, sewing room and storage is to be made. 💡🤔
Glad I could help. Be aware that I offer phone coaching to prevent you from making an expensive mistake: shop.askthebuilder.com/15-minute-phone-or-video-conversation-with-tim/
Wonderful insight. Thanks for sharing. At 1:18, I noticed the WWPA stamp denoting that it's kiln-dried, heat-treated fir. But I can't tell whether it says sel-str or straight or what. Either way, that's some nice lumber!
Thank you for an easy to follow video. Do you have a video on how to change rotted Ridge board and sill plates? Thanks.
No, I don't have those.
@@askthebuilder thank you for replying
you dont toe nail the collar tie into the top plate?
You can do that. No harm, no foul.
@@askthebuilder but you dont have to?
There is not enough rafter over hang... When it rains the water will run down the side of the house walls.. during winter time the walls will be a sheet of ice... also no rafter "gussets" to help strengthen the rafters... heavy snows can cause serious problems..
You're a great example of someone that knows very little. You should stop commenting on videos where your depth of ignorance is deeper than the Marianas Trench. I say this with the utmost respect because people like you MISLEAD homeowners with your bad advice and lack of knowledge.
This building is on my land. I look at this shed every day. It's cold here in NH. NEVER has water been on the siding from dripping off the 16-inch overhangs. Three years ago 40 inches of SNOW was on that roof :www.askthebuilder.com/winter-storm-gail-2020-central-nh/
The bottom rafter ties made from 2x10s have at least 20 nails at each end connecting them to the rafters and top wall plates. You can't have a stronger connection. Don't believe me? LOOK AT HOW STEEL TRUSS BRIDGES ARE BUILT. They have the exact same design as this roof.
Great ''''DOWN TO EARTH""" info.....Thank-you !!!!!
Thank you. Finally an answer I was looking for.
Glad I could help!
Great explanation
Glad it was helpful!
Question in a shed I want to remove 4 of these joists so that I can create an attic space across the rest of the joists. this gives nice wide open access to put a ladder up to get stuff into the attic. if I remove the ceiling joists can I just replace them with collar ties higher up? like in the top 1/3 of the rafters?
So I would have 14 ceiling joists that I can put decking on above my shed doors and then an open space of 4 feet that would have the joists removed and collar ties added. this is an unfinished shed BTW
Yes you can. Assuming you do it CORRECTLY. Want to know how? It requires a phone call. There's far too much to type: shop.askthebuilder.com/15-minute-phone-or-video-conversation-with-tim/
Hi have a question my roof rafters are
24 OC in my existing garage, now I'm converting in a room but in the blueprinting it say I have to place Ceiling joints 2x12 @ 16 OC. Do I have to place it @16 oc or what does the inspector would say.? Thank you
Only one person can answer this. Do you know who it is? You mentioned her/him in your question.
How high on the rafter can the collar tie be?
It depends on lots of factors. Far too much to type. I'm happy to help you on the phone: shop.askthebuilder.com/15-minute-phone-or-video-conversation-with-tim/
Sir does the small ridge beam and between the two very large beams diminishes strength
The small ridge beam is not a problem. With the massive bottom collar tie - the horizontal 2x10, there's no kick-out pressure on the ridge. All forces are straight down, not twisting.
@@askthebuilder Would you then put wood 2 or 3 feet lower down across both 2x10's, as a belt and suspenders way of preventing any possible kick out or just leave be the way it is? sorry. Once again I am learning I'm sure you could teach this stuff in your sleep. Thank you, Sir for your quick, cordial and respectful responses.
@@rtheprizeisright7323 Do the lower one correctly and there's no need for a secondary collar tie. But if you need to do it to create a flat ceiling in the space, you do get a secondary strength benefit. If I taught you something that will save you time and money and increases your knowledge, how about making a small tuition payment? Click the *THANKS* text link and do what you can.
One thing I noticed is the bottom of rafter to ridge board connection Shows the ridge board is shorter than the final cut of the rafter. Is this okay not have the compression of the rafters at the entire surface area of the end?
It depends ot who you ask. I tend to go with *hard data* not opinions from certain code officials who lack a structural engineering degree. I've been in hundreds of attics of old homes constructed in the late 1800s and early 1900s. I always admire the framing and in each one the ridge board was not as tall as the plumb cut of the rafters. Never did I see a split happen on the face of the rafter starting at the bottom of the ridge board. Keep in mind the rafters had been in place for 70, 80, 90, or more years! What does that tell you?
Also, use common sense and critical-thinking skills. For the rafters to CRACK at the base of the ridge board, they must be able to kick out where they cross the top of the walls. The only way this can happen is if the base of the triangle gets BIGGER. The roof in this video is made using a solid one-piece 2x10. At each end where a rafter touches it, there are no less than ten 16d nails!
Add to this the fact that the roof has survived almost ten New Hampshire winters so far. Back in 2021, there was FOUR FEET OF SNOW on the roof. That enormous added weight did not cause the rafters to crack. Reach out to a structural engineer and have them prove to you under what conditions the rafters would crack.
If you feel the need, then just tap a 2x4 or 2x6 up into the gap and toenail it to the ridge board here and there.
@@askthebuilder Makes sense even though it looks like, esthetically, that the ridge board should cover the full cut of the rafter. Appreciate your seasoned experience. 👍🇨🇦
@@MegsCarpentry-lovedogsIt has to be the full length of the cut end of the rafter per the IRC R802.3.
Thanks for sharing
YW as we say in Morse.
Also I’m afraid of heights so not a big roof person But would screws be better in those locations
Screws are almost always better. But they are far more expensive and take longer to install. Nails have held together roofs on homes for hundreds of years with no failure. There are roofs framed with nails in New England that are over 300 years old with no failure. You just have to use the correct nail and drive it the correct way.
@@askthebuilder true and time is money sorry for the nonintellectual question on my part great video and thank you for being professional and kind in your reply.
For my personal projects (rentals and my own house), Definitely only coated screws that can be installed into pressure treated lumber.
I always use pressure treated on my interior projects as well, because stuff happens. Sometimes I'll even throw some water seal on there after it dries out some to repel water, especially for my bathroom floors.
After repairing a few bathroom floors in my mom's rental houses, I realized that the renters don't call you when there's a puddle in the floor from a plumbing leak.
The call we get is...
"My wife just fell through the floor ".
Dang!
" This floor is rotted out from 3 years of water exposure !"
"Yeah, it's been leaking since 2 months after we moved in, but it wasn't a big deal, we didn't want to bother you about it."
"Thanks for not bothering me bro, now I get to replace the entire floor instead of a $3 piece of pipe. "
So, yeah, do what you can to.make it last as long as possible in adverse conditions. That way, hopefully it will last as long as you own it...if you're lucky.
Thanks 😊
No problem 😊 Be sure to subscribe to my FREE newsletter at www.AsktheBuilder.com
I think it is better to use a bigger ridge board than the rafter boards. It looks like the ridge board is 2 by 6, whereas, the rafter boards are 2 by 8. My house is 30 feet wide, and the ridge board is 2 by 8, and the rafters are 2 by 6.
You can always slide a 2x up into the gap if you desire. When you do the modeling and know that the rafters want to *SPREAD and pull away from the ridge board*, it doesn't quite make sense why the plumb cut has to contact solid wood along its length. Have you applied any critical-thinking horsepower to that?
Later yesterday, I checked more videos. In some states, the codes require that the ridge beam must be sufficient enough to have the rafters fully connected. It does not make sense by saying to put 2 by 4 into the gap. It does not help the loaded ridge beam to withstand the weight. If the rafters are 2 by 8, I would use 2 by 10s as the ridge beam.
@@passion830217 Is this the same building code that said years ago that it was just fine to NOT put a water barrier behind brick veneer? The same code that got rid of the best formula for the safest combination of rise/run on stairs? Stop accepting the code as gospel and use your God-given critical-thinking skills. I notice you didn't comment on the actual mechanism of what physically happens when roof load presses down on the top of half of rafters. I do agree in the situations where the ridge beam is actually carrying half the roof load to its two ends, that it should be sufficiently deep/tall to handle that load and the plumb cuts of the rafters will touch the entire ridge beam.
Thanks for the dialog. Think about what you typed and the tens of thousands of old houses that exist whose ridge boards don't meet the current code. How many violent windstorms have blown over them? How many roofs have failed *because* the ridge board was not as tall as the plumb cuts on the rafters? My guess: NONE - not one. I can give you all sorts of examples where the code is filled with nonsense.
In a past edition not too many years ago, the code said if you were building a brick veneer home and you could maintain a 1-inch airspace between the back of the brick and the wood sheathing, NO water barrier was required. This is when I lost most of my faith in those who author the code. All you have to do is watch videos from the Brick Industry Association to see how much water cascades down the BACK of a brick wall in a hurricane and you'd NEVER NOT have a waterproof barrier over a wood-frame house. That's just ONE example...
Weight is carried diagonally to the walls through the rafters. At the peak rafters ( back in the day) used to land on them selves and carry the full load from the peak down to the walls which in turn carries the loads to the ground. The roofing was 1x10 or 12 or whatever and that held rafters in place just nicely. Eventually they determined a ridge board prevented the rafter from rotating or slipping or losing contact. And if it did move it mattered less as the weight transfer would transfer through the ridge. Usually that ridge board was a 1x12 or 1x10 but was always taller then the diagonal cut of the after. With a smaller ridge then a rafter the idea is the rafter can no longer carry the same transmissional capability of its actually dimensional strength. But I believe a collar tie close to the peak makes that less relevant as it creates an additional path to distribute weight loads. They also keep that peak from coming apart with negative pressure in high winds.