I grew up in San Francisco during the late 50's, early 60's. When the Kennedy administration liberalized immigration from Hong Kong in the early 60's, we were suddenly inundated with people saying "leih ho mah", instead of "neih ho mah". What a shock!! We were all running around telling each other, "what on earth are they saying?!??". I truly believe that during that time, Hong Kong went through the same kind of great linguistic shift that almost all other languages have undergone. I would love for a linguist to really study when this all began, and who were primarily responsible for causing this consonant shift. Thank you so much for making this video!
It’s so novel for you to address these nuances. I have such an appreciation for your respect for the language. I am an ABC and the one time I went to HK, I thought it was strange when I heard the lazy way like it was baby talk.
hi! hong kong american here, i actually didnt know there is a "proper" sound for pronounciation. There is a mix for the "I love you" (third ver you had) but everything else is with the "lazy" tongue in my own family :)
Dang. I was born in Hong Kong and I don’t even try to pronounce the ng sound. You are legit. Wow. I love your cheerful and genuine attitude too. Please don’t change a thing. Amazing.
I grew up in HK, and was taught the proper way, so the lazy pronounciation really sticks out to me and is weird. I love that you are staying with the proper way =)
Grace, your Cantonese is more accurately and properly spoken than many average Hongkongers, especially those Kong Nuis. Proud of you and please keep sharing amazing videos with us. Gah Yau 👍🏻
I'm a BBC - British born Chinese and I have always used the lazy terms without even realising! I didn't realise it wasn't't the correct way of speaking until I saw a little clip of the lady on SCMP teaching correct ways of speaking - I was shocked - all these years I've been speaking in slang! But you're right, it's the norm for us Cantonese speakers as to be honest I've never heard people speaking the "correct" way.
I have been speaking Cantonese my whole life and start to correct my lazy tongue until recently 😭😭😭 as I start noticing those last tongue doesn’t sound right when I read stories to my kids in Cantonese. Those ‘n’ and ‘l’ are fatal errors most hkers made as we didn’t even notice that we actually made such mistakes. You may even notice some old ppl find it difficult to pronounce ‘no’ as they simply pronounce as ‘lo’. In our spoken Cantonese world, ‘nei’ and ‘lei’ are totally the same. Btw, listen to HK radio especially to those news reporter. In general, they speak good Cantonese without lazy tongue!!! It’s true we HKers should put more efforts in speaking correct Cantonese!! I’m happy that you bring this topic up and be our 廣東話正音大使🤩 Keep your good work Grace! Will definitely watch more of your Cantonese videos!
Well done, Grace, for making this video and for the effort you have obviously put into learning this not-so-easy language. You are absolutely right in saying that enunciating the words properly is the correct way of speaking Cantonese, however, the “lazy way” is NOT how everyone speak nowadays, It started off with people not bothering to enunciate the nasal sound properly and then perpetrated by people not correcting it. Unfortunately nowadays a lot of younger generation (and disastrously teachers) speak that way. Very often they don’t even know it’s wrong. When actors and actresses speak that way in the media, it gives a false impression that it is the norm. I cannot stress enough that it is not the norm. One would not sound weird speaking it the proper way, so I hope Cantonese learners don’t get put off learning the proper way.
Thank you - this is a great video because it's not often talked about and more and more people are using the lazy form - most likely because this is so popular with young Hong Kongers and this is how it spreads to folks that don't know better. You see this lazy form all the time now on shows on TVB and Viu when they have shows with younger hosts. The lazy form drives me nuts and yes it's correct to call it lazy. However, the fact that you recognize this and researched it - that's totally awesome and great.. Fantastic,
One of my parents is from Hong Kong and my other parent is from Guangzhou. I’ve noticed this difference but never really knew about why. Thanks for this video! :)
Yeah we Hong Kongers are lazy... ng sounds (as if -ng in singer) and vowel sounds are often mixed up, so are n/l sounds, some people in Hong Kong do criticize this but no one really cares lol. It's super super normal to say /l/ instead of /n/, so you don't have to worry. But I do say nei or naai (milk) when it's like, reading aloud or doing news reports (basically formal occasions). However, blue in Cantonese is "laam4" and it's not a lazy pronunciation. Other examples of lazy pronunciations are, "ho2 mm4 ho2 ji3 可唔可以" is shortened as "ho2 mo2 ji3", "hai6 mm hai6 係唔係" is shortened as "hai6 mai6 係咪", and I swear I didn't realize those words are shortened words until a year ago lmao it's just so natural saying "hai mai" or "ho mo ji" and so convenient XD Anyway I appreciate how you've noticed such nuances! It's always good to learn how native talks instead of the textbooks' ways.
Wow, this video made me respect the way you are trying to learn Cantonese even more. I wish everyone would want to learn the proper way like you. I think this explains why I was so intrigued by you!!! What you have pointed out it's very true, because I've noticed even in some TV shows, people have more lazy tongue now and it always bothered me. Please keep doing what you do, and learn the proper way!!
Yes, Grace learn the proper way of pronunciation. I had the same problem when I first met my in-laws in Hong Kong in the 70's. (I know, I'm old), but noticed they were speaking the "lazy" way using of L and N and I got confused as you were. Fast forward to 2019, they still speak like this. LOL!
(2:47), Grace I completely agree with you. You are speaking the correct way. Yes, I have heard of the "lazy pronunciations" but I had no idea that it was because people were lazy. I just thought that they weren't able to correctly pronounce it! LOL I don't like how the "lazy" way sounds. I believe that all languages should be proper. But that's just me. I also, when learning a language, I try to stay true to the actual pronunciation, myself. Grace, you are wrong (7:05)...you are fluent and yes, you sound like a native tongue speaker! For the color blue (7:45), yes it should be "lom sik". (8:08), "liang noy" is the correct way to say pretty girl or pretty lady.
Correct speech and writing is always needed in formal situations, so my preference is learn the proper language. At the same time, be cognizant that language is dynamic and evolves, with the vernacular changing constantly. However, formal language remains a constant and is needed in business, academic work, journalism... people will always understand you.
I might add that, just as there is the King’s/Queen’s English, there is the equivalent of being well-spoken in Cantonese, Mandarin or any language. You speak Cantonese beautifully.
As a hkese I think I never speak so proper Cantonese like you! I just have the lazy tongue all the time! I am now living in Italy n I wish I can have the language talent like you😊 btw, I enjoy more your channel than hk tv drama 👍🏻 keep it up
Knowing both the "Correct" and "Lazy" way, then find a great balance between them. Then you can sound "Correct" but not so obvious. (Native Cantonese speaker from HK. Correct is good, but people trying too hard is cringe)
I'm not learning Cantonese, but as a language learner, I do realize that most (maybe literally all) languages have lazy pronunciations 😅 I personally agree with your take on learning the more proper/standarized language instead of the colloquial pronunciations, but I also note the lazy ones to not forget it. My habit is usually use standard language on writing and non-standard forms when speaking, but only after I consider myself fluent enough in the language. Learning the differences is indeed a pain 😭, but it's kinda fun looking at the language we're learning also evolving.
As a Canadian with Hong Kong parents I kind of only ever knew the lazy tongue pronunciations and only came across the proper way when an ex boyfriend was learning Cantonese and insisted it sounded more respectful to say it the proper way. It just sounded weird and eventually I figured out it was an easy marker to tell if someone was from Guangdong or from HK. My grandma is originally from Guangdong and when I heard her speak Cantonese I always thought she had such a funny accent, like an English speaker overpronouncing everything. To me, I think it makes sense to listen to your friends and language partners telling you to lean into the lazy tongue if your goal is to convince hongkongers you are fluent, and was maybe raised there. But I don't know what your endgoal is, so you do you!
Keep up your good work. I am very happy for you that you are putting in the effort to learn it the proper way with the proper pronunciations. Unfortunately, many of the younger generation HKers don’t know the proper pronunciations and would criticize you for pronouncing it properly. Keep on your good work and add oil.
Hello Grace. I’ve only found your videos today and they’ve been absolutely amazing, so wholesome! I’m British born Chinese and my family have always spoke to me in the non lazy tongue way. And I’ve always thought it was the wrong way growing up and have been shy to speak Cantonese, as it was always pointed out how “bent” my canto was. Thank you for making this video, as it’s taken 27years of my life and this video to teach me today it wasn’t the wrong way. Keep it up! ❤️❤️❤️
Hong Konger here🙆🏻♀️Your cantonese is better than my English level,so proud of you,keep it up😍Can't wait to see you using Cantonese in Hong Kong after the pandemic!
I know a lot of languages do speak with a lazy tongue, but the Cantonese lazy tongue is way different than the "correct" Cantonese. Thank you for this video! I didn't even know that Cantonese had "lazy tongue" pronounciation.
You are amazing and you make a native Cantonese speaker like myself really feel ashamed, I should pay more attention to my pronounciation. Kudos to you 👍
First of all, very very pleased to come across this video and got to know you, Grace! You are very on point on the linguistics of the Cantonese dialect. I was searching for the correct and authentic/proper/original way of saying these words, and you nailed it. Bravo. And thank you. You kept the examples very simple and that made it very easily relatable. Now I know why there such confusions and why the discrepancies. And we got it fr a non native speaker! Goodness, LOL! Secondly, to answer some of your questions and request for comment, I think to speak it generally to friends, using lazy pronunciations should be fine, but I would use the proper way of saying it in lyrics for songs. However, having said this, I myself use a mixture, a hybrid if you will, in my everyday speaking. For eg: NGO YIU BONG LEI MAI NGAU LAI (I wanna help you buy milk). And I didn't even know I was doing this until I watch your video. Thirdly, 💯 on board with you on PLECO. Wonderful app! I learnt a lot just from checking words with it. However, here's a question for you too: to say help, in PLECO it's JIU. But we never say it that way. So, I think there are also phonetics when it comes to language. Perhaps we can't take the spellings literally. And hence therefore, the confusion starts again. When do we follow, and when do we not? LOL! Lastly, just like to tell you I subscribed after 5 mins into your video. Good job! Keep it up, and hope to see more good contents from you. Cantonese speaker fr Malaysia, Take care, stay safe and God bless! Cheers (thank you too, for those who read my long comment - sorry 😛)
I’m native HKer and I have lazy tongue too haha! it’s hard to speak it the right way... or even know what’s the right way 🤣 I’m glad you made this vid it’d be really helpful to people who are learning Canto!!!!!!
A lot of Hong Kongers are commenting saying that lei is correct and current. While that may be true in Hong Kong, in Guangxi Cantonese the "lazy" pronunciation isn't there. That being said, there is no correct way to speak a language and all languages evolve, and since Cantonese is a descriptive language (like English) vs a prescriptive language like French, Standard Korean, Standard Japanese etc., Cantonese being a descriptive language without a language board to slow down the constant changes in daily life there are bound to have changes in pronunciation all the time. Whereas French pronunciation has stayed rather stagnant after 1910.
Thank you so much for these videos! I've been wanting to learn cantonese for some time and you've motivated me to get started. I'm hoping I'll be able to at least be able to understand it haha but thanks again!!
Hey girl I'm from HK. I understand a bit about English as well so I can share some thoughts here. The 'lazy way to speak' to me is like the new norm, I like to think of it as the 'relaxed pronunciation' as it requires less effort than the proper way, or the HK variant. My mates at 20-30 yo all speak like that, not my parents/teachers/the elderly though. I have a hypothesis bout it, if u compare Cantonese spoken in HK vs Canton, ppl from Canton are saying words more accurately. I'd explain the difference by a heavier focus on English education. The mouth shape and the use of facial muscle is influenced by the spoken English language (2nd language). It is with that ONE mouth shape a person would be able to pronounce both Cantonese and English with lesser difficulty. I think it's ok to speak like that in everyday life but not in official settings, just my opinion. Some Brits say the word issue iSHo͞o (proper way) some say iSo͞o. No big deal
I think the linguistic terms you were talking about were Prescriptive vs. Descriptive (grammar). "Lazy pronunciation" is pretty much akin to connected or convenient speech in English, like you pointed out, so no point really in not doing it, because otherwise you'll sound weird most of the time. Like speaking too "proper" British English. It's not like being black & white and choosing one at the exclusion of the other. It's just what is convenient for your mouth with what you're trying to say. You don't want to sound like a textbook, and want to be able to mix well with locals/natives. 我愛你. "愛" is actually "oi", properly/originally pronounced, without the NG initial. People tack on the NG initial, in something called Hypercorrection, because they think it should have it. There's linguistic reasons for why it has no NG initial, something to do with bascially only the lower Yang tones having NG initial, that's how you can tell if it's a hypercorrection or not. Only a few exceptions where it's not the case, like 噏。
you are so true! people are just lazy. basically they just get rid of the sound generated by the noise and make it the lazy tongue nowadays... it is so good you are able to identify the differences and willing to tell the new learners (or even the native speakers) the correct way!
I live in Los Angeles and listen to the local Cantonese radio station. I noticed that the radio host and newscaster have very proper pronunciation, better than HK's radio station!
Hello Guresu, im a native cantonese speaker who now living in Hong Kong. I can share some of the experience responding to your confusion. Yes, Hong Kong people speak 'Lazy Tongue' in the daily life all the time, it is fast, easily but still able to understand the meaning of your saying. It also come with some history why we speak 'Lazy Tongue'. The previous generation of Hong Konger mainly come from every corners of China , they all carry their own accent, and due to lack of education foundation for population booming, it is very hard to require all them to speak "correct Cantonese" in a short time. Even nowadays , we still used to accept every tiny different people said, if it is understandable , it is ok. But for the 80's-now generation, the education system are now better off, we all know who to pounce "correct cantonese".We can switch how we say it by depending on what situation we're in, but most of the time we are only friendly living, so 'Lazy Tongue' is our normality. btw, i really like you speak cantonese with some english in it, e.g 歡迎黎我嘅"channel" instead of saying "頻道". That's exactly how hong konger speaking cantonese. haha
Wow, you even noticed that? Amazing. I too refer to them as the lazy way. Anyhow, you are right by maintaining the N sound. But if you start hanging out a lot with Cantonese speakers esp. those from HK, over time you will automatically switch without realizing. Speaking of which, after the lockdown is lifted you really need to make a trip to HK. You will love it.
I'm from Ipoh, Malaysia (a lot of cantonese speakers live there), to be honest if i say something like 'me' or 'eye' or 'milk' in cantonese without the 'ng' sound it's really weird to me. Same for the 'n' to 'l' sound as well.
Kudos to you Grace! People use lazy tongue either they don’t realize it, or they know it’s wrong but want to be “part of the crowd”, lest they sound too “proper”. Keep up the good work. Luv ya!
I was raised in the US so I only speak and hear canto from my native hong konger parents and TVB occasionally. I say all the words with the l instead of the n, and i say the ng in front of words. I'm pretty sure my parents speak the same way. I have noticed my grandparents who are originally from Toisan use the n in front of words, and I haven't noticed yet if they use the ng sound. Also, I have noticed that sometimes I use an ing ending instead of een in words like the first syllable in tomorrow. I have no idea if I picked it up from somewhere or I just came up with that on my own. My parents don't do that, but my dad has said he's heard people in hong kong do it too.
Appreciate the effort and understading towards cantonese. Yet as a Hong Konger who is around 30, I would say that this is actually not as serious for my generation. Or at least not supposed to be. Not sure if some other Hker around the same age as i do have memories about it but we get caught for lazy tongue a lot back in high school. The HKCEE exam in particular has an oral exam reading sentences in cantonese and in order to get better marks, we were corrected for the "lazy tongue speaking" even in cram courses in tutorial centres(lol). So plenty of us are highly corrected for our lazy tongue or even some weird sounding "正音" back then. Not sure how it is now but I am pretty surprised that some actually corrected you for new into lei
so true. I usually don't pronounce the 'ng' and 'n' sound. Another common lazy sound is the 'gw'. Some Hong Kong people tend to say 'jyu4 go2' instead of 'jyu4 gwo2' for the word 如果. And we will say 'jing1 gok3' but not 'jing1 gwok3' for 英國.
Oh really? I recall someone correcting me on my pronunciation of 'zung1 gwok3' telling me to pronounce the 'w' sound less. Now I know that it's a lazy pronunciation!
I studied your typical Beijing Mandarin. The “lazy tongue” Cantonese is like how I hear Taiwanese speaking Mandarin. Many folks tend to speak a sort of shortcut (I.e. sloppy) sounding Mandarin these days, and don’t put in enough tonal emphasis. Hard to get used to.
Taiwanese Mandarin pronunciation is considered more accurate than Beijing Mandarin. Beijing Mandarin curls the tougue for many words that don't have the curling sound. Proper Mandarin speakers make fun of Beijing pronouciaton. :)
@@thatchinaboi1 Yes, Beijing Mandarin can sound a bit odd too. Like how the word for door "men" sounds like "mer". It's ugly. What I'm talking about are things like "shi bu shi"... Taiwanese and others pronounce like "si bu si"... with like a hard S sound, which makes "shi" sound like their saying the number four instead.
Pupils in hong Kong are still taught proper Cantonese with "Ngo" and "Nei". Actually we won't feel weird if you say properly but we do notice you are speaking correctly. I'm glad that you notice the different but the lazy tongue is still regarded wrong. These N/L difference is not accepted as a seperate accent in our society. Keep it up with your proper way. We native speaker shall learn from you to respect our own mother tongue. Thank you Grace! By the way, "love" in Cantonese shall be pronounced "Oi" without "ng" sound. There are few words starting with "O", according to the dictionary. humanum.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/lexi-can/
The use of lazy tongue probably a way to distinguish Hong Konger Cantonese apart from mainlander’s Cantonese. Proud Hong Konger will very unlikely to speak the original Cantonese as it makes them sound very mainland.
Ngoi3 for love is a hypercorrection. Oi3 was how this word was originally pronounced before people started pronouncing it ngoi3 because they mistakenly believed oi3 was lazy tongue when it was actually that word’s ‘authentic’ pronunciation. If you want to speak Cantonese more ‘authentically’ to how these words were originally pronounced prior to the more recent sound changes in the 1900s, then you should avoid using the hypercorrect pronunciations just as much as you avoid the ‘lazy’ pronunciations. Generally, if the word is tone 1, 2, or 3, pronouncing it with an ‘ng’ initial is hypercorrection. Words with these tones historically were not pronounced with an ‘ng’ initial. The exception is if the word was borrowed from another language like ngaam1 which is not a hypercorrect pronunciation because it was borrowed from the Zhuang language. If the word is tone 4, 5, or 6, then it’s more ‘authentic’ to pronounce it with an ‘ng’ initial e.g. ngau4, ngo5, tou5 ngo6. But at some point you have to draw a line and say you want to preserve early 1900s pronunciation. Otherwise instead of ‘nei’, you should be pronouncing it ‘ni’ which is actually how this word used to be pronounced in Cantonese. The ‘ei’ sound didn’t exist in Cantonese more than 200 years ago. Another word is ‘sei2’ which was originally ‘si2’. There’s also the high falling tone . To pronounce the word for the number 3 the way it used to be pronounced when people still regularly distinguished high falling from high flat for most words, you should pronounce it sàam which is different from the pronunciation for the word for clothing which is sāam. But doing this for all originally high falling tone words would be difficult unless you use older dictionaries like the Sidney Lau dictionary since modern dictionaries don’t make this distinction. But this is just not practical. Oops this is super long and hopefully I’m not coming across as rude. I try to avoid both ‘lazy’ and ‘hypercorrect’ pronunciations except I always use initial ‘l’ instead of ‘n’ for most words because with ‘n’ it does sound weird. Except maybe if it’s like a place name that comes from a different language like nau2 yeuk3. Then it’s not as weird. Lau2 yeuk3 is common though
Yes! You are correct, my family speaks guangxi Cantonese and the pronunciation at least during the 70's-80's (before they left China) was "ni or nee" nee dee hai ngo go yae (these are my things)
Ed B. Ah that’s interesting! My uncle had a colleague from Guangxi and when my uncle heard her speak he said “you must be from Gwong sai.” She said yes and asked how he could tell. He said it’s because she said “mou yau” instead of just “mou” which is how you say "to not have" in HK/Gwong jau Cantonese. He said he's heard other people before her from Guangxi say "mou yau" instead of just "mou." Is this true for your family as well?
On top of the ng ----> __ n ------> l sound changes you mentioned, in Guangxi Cantonese (or at least from the 70's, which is the form my mother taught me and my siblings) the w in Hong Kong pronunciation is a "v" for me. So guangdong wah is guangdong vah for me
Thank you for this! I had no idea what "lazy tongue" was. Would it be mostly due to the locale? I know the HK cantonese accent is slightly different from in Guangzhou cantonese accent
You are absolutely right about lazy tongue. I can speak fluent Cantonese, I much prefer people speak with the proper pronunciation. I love to watch your videos. You are a very lovely and intelligent lady. You are doing a great job.
The ng sound is very hard so definitely the lazy sound for that one. Mixing it with the l and n sounds is alright, but most people in HK go with the l sound.
I actually brought this up with my Hong Kong mother many years ago. I'm an ABC. I think I actually offended her (pointing out her lazy tone) and I wonder if this is probably more common with the "boomer" generation. I'm sure you can get this with many languages On the flip I've heard someone being laughed at for pronunciating things correctly
But you dont know there’s another Cantonese tone in Saigon Vietnam Which sound more different They can’t speak C Z a does they will speak Ch instead And tone sound they can’t speak 1st tone, instead they will speak a littler higher And the 6th tone which they will switch to 4,5 tone
omg i haaate the lazy tongue, when i go to hk i find it so annoying hearing people talk like that lol Girl, you do you! I'm BBC and all my chinese friends pronounce words properly here in the uk, i find the lazy tongue more common in hk
I was born in Hong Kong. When I came to America, someone (from a non-native Cantonese city/area) told me that my Cantonese was wrong for saying words like Lei instead of Nei. I was like (in my mind), “who are you to tell me that my Cantonese is wrong when my native language is Cantonese?!”. I have to say knowing the standard way to pronounce those words with Ng and N sounds is a good thing, but pushing yourself to say the proper way is not necessary. If it slows you down, then definitely don’t. Speaking with lazy tongue will only make you sound more like a native Hongkonger, so why not? When we sing in Cantonese, we almost always sing with standard Cantonese. I guess that links to how we use written Chinese too. One more thing, blue is Laam, not Naam. Usually when Mandarin is L sound, Cantonese is L sound also.
Thank you for letting me know! Sometimes I find it confusing to know whether a word has an actual L sound or if it's just lazy pronunciation, but now I have a way to know! Personally for me, I've been learning how to speak the proper way since the beginning of my studies and so I find that it doesn't slow me down because it's just what I'm used to! I wouldn't encourage a new learner to force themselves to speak the proper way, I think to each their own! Thank you for watching ^^
No, lazy tongue is not like gonna, it is much like cockney, you guy skip out "t" sound, like button, you guy say bu..un, right? For native Cantonese speaker, it's okay to use lazy tongue, but it's not a thing to proud of or a way to show off you are more native than other, avoid it at your best effort. unlike English, Cantonese is not for rap, it's very difficult to create flow in such a language if not impossible, so missing a word or twisting the sound would make it weird to listen. For me, I think the most difficult part for English speakers to master Cantonese is, you just can't understand the right time to use, 呢、咩、㗎、喎、呀、喇，these kind of words, even you use it right, but you may not sound it right. keep up your effort Grace, you are brilliant, for just four years, I've been studying English since primary school, and I'm still learning everyday.
I really think you should check out " Ben Sir 教你廣東話" on TH-cam. He is specialize Cantonese language, also professor from Hong Kong University. Check out his video is very cool and funny, you will definitely like it and enjoy it😁😋😘 And 神駒 本土台 on youtube , is the one speak the most correct Cantonese pronunciation, also specialize Chinese and Cantonese.. you will love it 😊😉😃
Hi Grace. I just saw this video about how it's ok or maybe even better to use lazy tongue for Cantonese. Here is the link for your reference th-cam.com/video/4JatiaJ5rBs/w-d-xo.html Hope you like the video.
‘Lei’ being an incorrect pronunciation being a problem amongst the ‘young’ is a just plain misinformation used to vilify the youth. As a native speaker with parents/grandparents whose native language is Cantonese, ‘lei’ is the pronunciation I grew up hearing. If you listen to true Hong Kongers, be it on the streets, or just check out some old films/TV series (pre-97), this is the pronunciation you’re likely to hear. It’s like saying the Irish don’t speak English correctly. (or any regional UK accent for that matter) ‘Nei’ in singing, and ‘Lei’ in conversation is the norm, it’s a bit like how an English singer’s regional accent often doesn’t come through when singing. The ‘n’ being dropped is a Hong Konger’s tone, not the youth’s fault. You’ll find that when older Cantonese people try to say “No” in English (with an accent), it’ll sound like “Lo’. It’s merely their natural accent. Each language has some regional variance, it's interesting to learn of the differences, but don't listen to those trying to eliminate HK culture! Add oil Guresu, you're doing great!
Yeah, that’s why I didn’t say in the video that ‘lei’ was only spoken by young people. I said that it’s the norm in the streets of Hong Kong and I even mentioned that I’ve heard the older generation speaking in this way too. Thanks for watching x
@@Guresu Oh I didn't mean you sorry, I was referring to some of the comments in response, as it's one of those things that's been frequently touted around.
Actually the "proper" or the dictionary way to say 我愛你 (I love you) is /ngo5 oi3 nei5/. /ngo5 ngoi3 nei5/ is an over-correction. (Really! Look it up.) Likewise, the word 藍 (blue) is actually pronounced /laam4/ and /naam4/ is an over-correction. However, these common words 寧(silence) 囊(pouch) 農(farming) do have has the dictionary pronunciations of /ning4/ /nong4/ /nung4/ respectivelt, all with the /n-/ onset consonant and not /l-/. Not even HK people might know these facts. Most HK people are aware that some words have a different dictionary pronunciation but they maybe not know all of them and they are may not know when they are making an over-correction. Personally I don't think there is a proper way to speak any language unless you want to sound like Freddie Mercury when you speak English (which is not a bad thing).
Have you considered the addition of the ng at the beginning of some words? For example, house uk1 vs nguk1, and love oi3 vs ngoi3? Similar concept. Thank you.
I’ve experienced that in speaking Spanish. The word for right or correct is verdad but I grew up hearing verla. It can become very confusing for non native speakers.
yup , the harder thing to speak in Cantonese is we cannot say it with Lazy Tongue, I was blamed by my teacher and parents when I was primary school student. hey you have to rectify your tone without lazy tongue when speaking in Cantonese otherwise u cannot find a decent job in future, that is weird isn't it. HongKonger just request people to speak Cantonese strictly but if u speak it with lazy tongue nobody will understand you indeed. lolx
Personally i think that Cantonese "lazy talk" is a myth. In German language we also do not pronounce every single phonem or even every syllable. Though originally considered "the proper" way, it would sound very unnatural if you tried to force a literal pronounciation.
not everyone in HK speaks in lazy tongue, but the laziness is getting more and more serious. yet, probably everyone speaks with a certain degree of laziness. trend is the younger you are the "lazier" you sound. lazy tongue is probably due to the fast pace in hk and also the original version is gradually getting lost in generations. other than some super common lazy pronouns like nei, still about 70% of hk people are speaking in the proper way. but most youngsters think it sounds cooler to speak in lazy tongue, or many parents don't care to correct their children's pronunciation (cos almost every parents have to work and leave their kids to grow up under foreign maids' care and learn to talk probably by themselves).
Keep it up, you're learning really well. You're making Hong Kongers really proud of our language!
Thank you! Will do!
I grew up in San Francisco during the late 50's, early 60's. When the Kennedy administration liberalized immigration from Hong Kong in the early 60's, we were suddenly inundated with people saying "leih ho mah", instead of "neih ho mah". What a shock!! We were all running around telling each other, "what on earth are they saying?!??".
I truly believe that during that time, Hong Kong went through the same kind of great linguistic shift that almost all other languages have undergone. I would love for a linguist to really study when this all began, and who were primarily responsible for causing this consonant shift. Thank you so much for making this video!
It’s so novel for you to address these nuances. I have such an appreciation for your respect for the language. I am an ABC and the one time I went to HK, I thought it was strange when I heard the lazy way like it was baby talk.
it actually sounds horrible indeed. And usually spoken by younger generations.
hi! hong kong american here, i actually didnt know there is a "proper" sound for pronounciation. There is a mix for the "I love you" (third ver you had) but everything else is with the "lazy" tongue in my own family :)
Thanks for sharing!
Dang. I was born in Hong Kong and I don’t even try to pronounce the ng sound. You are legit. Wow. I love your cheerful and genuine attitude too. Please don’t change a thing. Amazing.
I grew up in HK, and was taught the proper way, so the lazy pronounciation really sticks out to me and is weird. I love that you are staying with the proper way =)
Grace, your Cantonese is more accurately and properly spoken than many average Hongkongers, especially those Kong Nuis. Proud of you and please keep sharing amazing videos with us. Gah Yau 👍🏻
I'm a BBC - British born Chinese and I have always used the lazy terms without even realising! I didn't realise it wasn't't the correct way of speaking until I saw a little clip of the lady on SCMP teaching correct ways of speaking - I was shocked - all these years I've been speaking in slang! But you're right, it's the norm for us Cantonese speakers as to be honest I've never heard people speaking the "correct" way.
I have been speaking Cantonese my whole life and start to correct my lazy tongue until recently 😭😭😭 as I start noticing those last tongue doesn’t sound right when I read stories to my kids in Cantonese.
Those ‘n’ and ‘l’ are fatal errors most hkers made as we didn’t even notice that we actually made such mistakes. You may even notice some old ppl find it difficult to pronounce ‘no’ as they simply pronounce as ‘lo’. In our spoken Cantonese world, ‘nei’ and ‘lei’ are totally the same.
Btw, listen to HK radio especially to those news reporter. In general, they speak good Cantonese without lazy tongue!!!
It’s true we HKers should put more efforts in speaking correct Cantonese!! I’m happy that you bring this topic up and be our 廣東話正音大使🤩 Keep your good work Grace! Will definitely watch more of your Cantonese videos!
im a hongkonger and i didn’t even know i was speaking lazy tongue all this time i’m actually learning so much from your videos 😍
I’m so glad to hear that!
Well done, Grace, for making this video and for the effort you have obviously put into learning this not-so-easy language. You are absolutely right in saying that enunciating the words properly is the correct way of speaking Cantonese, however, the “lazy way” is NOT how everyone speak nowadays, It started off with people not bothering to enunciate the nasal sound properly and then perpetrated by people not correcting it. Unfortunately nowadays a lot of younger generation (and disastrously teachers) speak that way. Very often they don’t even know it’s wrong. When actors and actresses speak that way in the media, it gives a false impression that it is the norm. I cannot stress enough that it is not the norm. One would not sound weird speaking it the proper way, so I hope Cantonese learners don’t get put off learning the proper way.
Thank you - this is a great video because it's not often talked about and more and more people are using the lazy form - most likely because this is so popular with young Hong Kongers and this is how it spreads to folks that don't know better. You see this lazy form all the time now on shows on TVB and Viu when they have shows with younger hosts. The lazy form drives me nuts and yes it's correct to call it lazy. However, the fact that you recognize this and researched it - that's totally awesome and great.. Fantastic,
One of my parents is from Hong Kong and my other parent is from Guangzhou. I’ve noticed this difference but never really knew about why. Thanks for this video! :)
Yeah we Hong Kongers are lazy... ng sounds (as if -ng in singer) and vowel sounds are often mixed up, so are n/l sounds, some people in Hong Kong do criticize this but no one really cares lol. It's super super normal to say /l/ instead of /n/, so you don't have to worry. But I do say nei or naai (milk) when it's like, reading aloud or doing news reports (basically formal occasions).
However, blue in Cantonese is "laam4" and it's not a lazy pronunciation. Other examples of lazy pronunciations are, "ho2 mm4 ho2 ji3 可唔可以" is shortened as "ho2 mo2 ji3", "hai6 mm hai6 係唔係" is shortened as "hai6 mai6 係咪", and I swear I didn't realize those words are shortened words until a year ago lmao it's just so natural saying "hai mai" or "ho mo ji" and so convenient XD
Anyway I appreciate how you've noticed such nuances! It's always good to learn how native talks instead of the textbooks' ways.
Oh, thank you for letting me know about the colour blue! And yes, 'hai6 mai6' and 'ho2 mo2 ji3' is so convenient haha! Thank you for watching!
Isn't "hai mai" kind of like saying innit in English? Like especially when people use it at the end of a sentence (maybe I'm using it wrong haha)? 😅
@@chilliam00 yes, you are quite right. 係咪 is not a lazy tongue. It's just a short form.
Wow, this video made me respect the way you are trying to learn Cantonese even more. I wish everyone would want to learn the proper way like you. I think this explains why I was so intrigued by you!!! What you have pointed out it's very true, because I've noticed even in some TV shows, people have more lazy tongue now and it always bothered me. Please keep doing what you do, and learn the proper way!!
Yes, Grace learn the proper way of pronunciation. I had the same problem when I first met my in-laws in Hong Kong in the 70's. (I know, I'm old), but noticed they were speaking the "lazy" way using of L and N and I got confused as you were. Fast forward to 2019, they still speak like this. LOL!
Hahaha
(2:47), Grace I completely agree with you. You are speaking the correct way. Yes, I have heard of the "lazy pronunciations" but I had no idea that it was because people were lazy. I just thought that they weren't able to correctly pronounce it! LOL I don't like how the "lazy" way sounds. I believe that all languages should be proper. But that's just me. I also, when learning a language, I try to stay true to the actual pronunciation, myself. Grace, you are wrong (7:05)...you are fluent and yes, you sound like a native tongue speaker! For the color blue (7:45), yes it should be "lom sik". (8:08), "liang noy" is the correct way to say pretty girl or pretty lady.
Correct speech and writing is always needed in formal situations, so my preference is learn the proper language. At the same time, be cognizant that language is dynamic and evolves, with the vernacular changing constantly. However, formal language remains a constant and is needed in business, academic work, journalism... people will always understand you.
I might add that, just as there is the King’s/Queen’s English, there is the equivalent of being well-spoken in Cantonese, Mandarin or any language. You speak Cantonese beautifully.
As a hkese I think I never speak so proper Cantonese like you! I just have the lazy tongue all the time! I am now living in Italy n I wish I can have the language talent like you😊 btw, I enjoy more your channel than hk tv drama 👍🏻 keep it up
Knowing both the "Correct" and "Lazy" way, then find a great balance between them. Then you can sound "Correct" but not so obvious.
(Native Cantonese speaker from HK. Correct is good, but people trying too hard is cringe)
How do you hear my Cantonese?
I'm not learning Cantonese, but as a language learner, I do realize that most (maybe literally all) languages have lazy pronunciations 😅 I personally agree with your take on learning the more proper/standarized language instead of the colloquial pronunciations, but I also note the lazy ones to not forget it. My habit is usually use standard language on writing and non-standard forms when speaking, but only after I consider myself fluent enough in the language. Learning the differences is indeed a pain 😭, but it's kinda fun looking at the language we're learning also evolving.
Thanks for sharing! ^^
As a Canadian with Hong Kong parents I kind of only ever knew the lazy tongue pronunciations and only came across the proper way when an ex boyfriend was learning Cantonese and insisted it sounded more respectful to say it the proper way. It just sounded weird and eventually I figured out it was an easy marker to tell if someone was from Guangdong or from HK. My grandma is originally from Guangdong and when I heard her speak Cantonese I always thought she had such a funny accent, like an English speaker overpronouncing everything.
To me, I think it makes sense to listen to your friends and language partners telling you to lean into the lazy tongue if your goal is to convince hongkongers you are fluent, and was maybe raised there. But I don't know what your endgoal is, so you do you!
Keep up your good work. I am very happy for you that you are putting in the effort to learn it the proper way with the proper pronunciations. Unfortunately, many of the younger generation HKers don’t know the proper pronunciations and would criticize you for pronouncing it properly. Keep on your good work and add oil.
Hello Grace. I’ve only found your videos today and they’ve been absolutely amazing, so wholesome! I’m British born Chinese and my family have always spoke to me in the non lazy tongue way. And I’ve always thought it was the wrong way growing up and have been shy to speak Cantonese, as it was always pointed out how “bent” my canto was. Thank you for making this video, as it’s taken 27years of my life and this video to teach me today it wasn’t the wrong way. Keep it up! ❤️❤️❤️
Awe, I'm so happy that you were able to find this out with my video! Thank you so much for watching ^^
Hong Konger here🙆🏻♀️Your cantonese is better than my English level,so proud of you,keep it up😍Can't wait to see you using Cantonese in Hong Kong after the pandemic!
I know a lot of languages do speak with a lazy tongue, but the Cantonese lazy tongue is way different than the "correct" Cantonese. Thank you for this video! I didn't even know that Cantonese had "lazy tongue" pronounciation.
Thanks for watching!
You are amazing and you make a native Cantonese speaker like myself really feel ashamed, I should pay more attention to my pronounciation. Kudos to you 👍
First of all, very very pleased to come across this video and got to know you, Grace! You are very on point on the linguistics of the Cantonese dialect. I was searching for the correct and authentic/proper/original way of saying these words, and you nailed it. Bravo. And thank you.
You kept the examples very simple and that made it very easily relatable. Now I know why there such confusions and why the discrepancies. And we got it fr a non native speaker! Goodness, LOL!
Secondly, to answer some of your questions and request for comment, I think to speak it generally to friends, using lazy pronunciations should be fine, but I would use the proper way of saying it in lyrics for songs. However, having said this, I myself use a mixture, a hybrid if you will, in my everyday speaking. For eg: NGO YIU BONG LEI MAI NGAU LAI (I wanna help you buy milk).
And I didn't even know I was doing this until I watch your video.
Thirdly, 💯 on board with you on PLECO. Wonderful app! I learnt a lot just from checking words with it. However, here's a question for you too: to say help, in PLECO it's JIU. But we never say it that way. So, I think there are also phonetics when it comes to language. Perhaps we can't take the spellings literally. And hence therefore, the confusion starts again. When do we follow, and when do we not? LOL!
Lastly, just like to tell you I subscribed after 5 mins into your video. Good job! Keep it up, and hope to see more good contents from you.
Cantonese speaker fr Malaysia,
Take care, stay safe and God bless! Cheers
(thank you too, for those who read my long comment - sorry 😛)
I’m native HKer and I have lazy tongue too haha! it’s hard to speak it the right way... or even know what’s the right way 🤣
I’m glad you made this vid it’d be really helpful to people who are learning Canto!!!!!!
A lot of Hong Kongers are commenting saying that lei is correct and current. While that may be true in Hong Kong, in Guangxi Cantonese the "lazy" pronunciation isn't there.
That being said, there is no correct way to speak a language and all languages evolve, and since Cantonese is a descriptive language (like English) vs a prescriptive language like French, Standard Korean, Standard Japanese etc.,
Cantonese being a descriptive language without a language board to slow down the constant changes in daily life there are bound to have changes in pronunciation all the time.
Whereas French pronunciation has stayed rather stagnant after 1910.
Thank you so much for these videos! I've been wanting to learn cantonese for some time and you've motivated me to get started. I'm hoping I'll be able to at least be able to understand it haha but thanks again!!
Glad it helped!
It is wonderful to figure it out. Not only useful to Cantonese but also useful in other language to improve the accent.
Hey girl I'm from HK. I understand a bit about English as well so I can share some thoughts here. The 'lazy way to speak' to me is like the new norm, I like to think of it as the 'relaxed pronunciation' as it requires less effort than the proper way, or the HK variant. My mates at 20-30 yo all speak like that, not my parents/teachers/the elderly though. I have a hypothesis bout it, if u compare Cantonese spoken in HK vs Canton, ppl from Canton are saying words more accurately. I'd explain the difference by a heavier focus on English education. The mouth shape and the use of facial muscle is influenced by the spoken English language (2nd language). It is with that ONE mouth shape a person would be able to pronounce both Cantonese and English with lesser difficulty. I think it's ok to speak like that in everyday life but not in official settings, just my opinion. Some Brits say the word issue iSHo͞o (proper way) some say iSo͞o. No big deal
I think the linguistic terms you were talking about were Prescriptive vs. Descriptive (grammar).
"Lazy pronunciation" is pretty much akin to connected or convenient speech in English, like you pointed out, so no point really in not doing it, because otherwise you'll sound weird most of the time. Like speaking too "proper" British English. It's not like being black & white and choosing one at the exclusion of the other. It's just what is convenient for your mouth with what you're trying to say. You don't want to sound like a textbook, and want to be able to mix well with locals/natives.
我愛你. "愛" is actually "oi", properly/originally pronounced, without the NG initial. People tack on the NG initial, in something called Hypercorrection, because they think it should have it. There's linguistic reasons for why it has no NG initial, something to do with bascially only the lower Yang tones having NG initial, that's how you can tell if it's a hypercorrection or not. Only a few exceptions where it's not the case, like 噏。
Just don’t compromise with the incorrect things, good job
you are so true! people are just lazy. basically they just get rid of the sound generated by the noise and make it the lazy tongue nowadays... it is so good you are able to identify the differences and willing to tell the new learners (or even the native speakers) the correct way!
I live in Los Angeles and listen to the local Cantonese radio station. I noticed that the radio host and newscaster have very proper pronunciation, better than HK's radio station!
Oh wow, thanks for sharing ^^
Hello Guresu, im a native cantonese speaker who now living in Hong Kong. I can share some of the experience responding to your confusion.
Yes, Hong Kong people speak 'Lazy Tongue' in the daily life all the time, it is fast, easily but still able to understand the meaning of your saying.
It also come with some history why we speak 'Lazy Tongue'. The previous generation of Hong Konger mainly come from every corners of China , they all carry their own accent, and due to lack of education foundation for population booming, it is very hard to require all them to speak "correct Cantonese" in a short time. Even nowadays , we still used to accept every tiny different people said, if it is understandable , it is ok.
But for the 80's-now generation, the education system are now better off, we all know who to pounce "correct cantonese".We can switch how we say it by depending on what situation we're in, but most of the time we are only friendly living, so 'Lazy Tongue' is our normality.
btw, i really like you speak cantonese with some english in it, e.g 歡迎黎我嘅"channel" instead of saying "頻道". That's exactly how hong konger speaking cantonese. haha
You speak better Cantonese than i do. You point out the lazy tongue problem. I support you, add oil.
Wow, you even noticed that? Amazing. I too refer to them as the lazy way. Anyhow, you are right by maintaining the N sound. But if you start hanging out a lot with Cantonese speakers esp. those from HK, over time you will automatically switch without realizing. Speaking of which, after the lockdown is lifted you really need to make a trip to HK. You will love it.
I'm from Ipoh, Malaysia (a lot of cantonese speakers live there), to be honest if i say something like 'me' or 'eye' or 'milk' in cantonese without the 'ng' sound it's really weird to me. Same for the 'n' to 'l' sound as well.
Kudos to you Grace! People use lazy tongue either they don’t realize it, or they know it’s wrong but want to be “part of the crowd”, lest they sound too “proper”. Keep up the good work. Luv ya!
I was raised in the US so I only speak and hear canto from my native hong konger parents and TVB occasionally. I say all the words with the l instead of the n, and i say the ng in front of words. I'm pretty sure my parents speak the same way. I have noticed my grandparents who are originally from Toisan use the n in front of words, and I haven't noticed yet if they use the ng sound. Also, I have noticed that sometimes I use an ing ending instead of een in words like the first syllable in tomorrow. I have no idea if I picked it up from somewhere or I just came up with that on my own. My parents don't do that, but my dad has said he's heard people in hong kong do it too.
Interesting!
Love it. Yes to proper enunciation and no lazy sound. Thank you for giving more effort than many native Cantonese speakers
Appreciate the effort and understading towards cantonese. Yet as a Hong Konger who is around 30, I would say that this is actually not as serious for my generation. Or at least not supposed to be. Not sure if some other Hker around the same age as i do have memories about it but we get caught for lazy tongue a lot back in high school. The HKCEE exam in particular has an oral exam reading sentences in cantonese and in order to get better marks, we were corrected for the "lazy tongue speaking" even in cram courses in tutorial centres(lol). So plenty of us are highly corrected for our lazy tongue or even some weird sounding "正音" back then. Not sure how it is now but I am pretty surprised that some actually corrected you for new into lei
OMG, I even never thought of the words " Lazy Tongue" as a Hong Konger
so true. I usually don't pronounce the 'ng' and 'n' sound. Another common lazy sound is the 'gw'. Some Hong Kong people tend to say 'jyu4 go2' instead of 'jyu4 gwo2' for the word 如果. And we will say 'jing1 gok3' but not 'jing1 gwok3' for 英國.
Oh really? I recall someone correcting me on my pronunciation of 'zung1 gwok3' telling me to pronounce the 'w' sound less. Now I know that it's a lazy pronunciation!
I studied your typical Beijing Mandarin. The “lazy tongue” Cantonese is like how I hear Taiwanese speaking Mandarin. Many folks tend to speak a sort of shortcut (I.e. sloppy) sounding Mandarin these days, and don’t put in enough tonal emphasis. Hard to get used to.
Taiwanese Mandarin pronunciation is considered more accurate than Beijing Mandarin. Beijing Mandarin curls the tougue for many words that don't have the curling sound. Proper Mandarin speakers make fun of Beijing pronouciaton. :)
@@thatchinaboi1 Yes, Beijing Mandarin can sound a bit odd too. Like how the word for door "men" sounds like "mer". It's ugly. What I'm talking about are things like "shi bu shi"... Taiwanese and others pronounce like "si bu si"... with like a hard S sound, which makes "shi" sound like their saying the number four instead.
@@thatchinaboi1 Don't get me started on Shanghainese. When I heard how they say "phone" (like "dee-wu"), it sounds like fuck in Cantonese, LOL!
So good!
Thank you!
@5:52 LOL yep...I use a mix of lazy tongue and the normal pronounciation.
Pupils in hong Kong are still taught proper Cantonese with "Ngo" and "Nei". Actually we won't feel weird if you say properly but we do notice you are speaking correctly. I'm glad that you notice the different but the lazy tongue is still regarded wrong. These N/L difference is not accepted as a seperate accent in our society. Keep it up with your proper way. We native speaker shall learn from you to respect our own mother tongue. Thank you Grace!
By the way, "love" in Cantonese shall be pronounced "Oi" without "ng" sound. There are few words starting with "O", according to the dictionary.
humanum.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/lexi-can/
The use of lazy tongue probably a way to distinguish Hong Konger Cantonese apart from mainlander’s Cantonese. Proud Hong Konger will very unlikely to speak the original Cantonese as it makes them sound very mainland.
we use the so call proper way when we are speaking seriously. but most of the time we speak in relax mode ie the lazy way.
Ngoi3 for love is a hypercorrection. Oi3 was how this word was originally pronounced before people started pronouncing it ngoi3 because they mistakenly believed oi3 was lazy tongue when it was actually that word’s ‘authentic’ pronunciation. If you want to speak Cantonese more ‘authentically’ to how these words were originally pronounced prior to the more recent sound changes in the 1900s, then you should avoid using the hypercorrect pronunciations just as much as you avoid the ‘lazy’ pronunciations. Generally, if the word is tone 1, 2, or 3, pronouncing it with an ‘ng’ initial is hypercorrection. Words with these tones historically were not pronounced with an ‘ng’ initial. The exception is if the word was borrowed from another language like ngaam1 which is not a hypercorrect pronunciation because it was borrowed from the Zhuang language. If the word is tone 4, 5, or 6, then it’s more ‘authentic’ to pronounce it with an ‘ng’ initial e.g. ngau4, ngo5, tou5 ngo6. But at some point you have to draw a line and say you want to preserve early 1900s pronunciation. Otherwise instead of ‘nei’, you should be pronouncing it ‘ni’ which is actually how this word used to be pronounced in Cantonese. The ‘ei’ sound didn’t exist in Cantonese more than 200 years ago. Another word is ‘sei2’ which was originally ‘si2’. There’s also the high falling tone . To pronounce the word for the number 3 the way it used to be pronounced when people still regularly distinguished high falling from high flat for most words, you should pronounce it sàam which is different from the pronunciation for the word for clothing which is sāam. But doing this for all originally high falling tone words would be difficult unless you use older dictionaries like the Sidney Lau dictionary since modern dictionaries don’t make this distinction. But this is just not practical. Oops this is super long and hopefully I’m not coming across as rude. I try to avoid both ‘lazy’ and ‘hypercorrect’ pronunciations except I always use initial ‘l’ instead of ‘n’ for most words because with ‘n’ it does sound weird. Except maybe if it’s like a place name that comes from a different language like nau2 yeuk3. Then it’s not as weird. Lau2 yeuk3 is common though
Thanks for sharing that :)
Yes! You are correct, my family speaks guangxi Cantonese and the pronunciation at least during the 70's-80's (before they left China) was "ni or nee"
nee dee hai ngo go yae (these are my things)
Ed B. Ah that’s interesting! My uncle had a colleague from Guangxi and when my uncle heard her speak he said “you must be from Gwong sai.” She said yes and asked how he could tell. He said it’s because she said “mou yau” instead of just “mou” which is how you say "to not have" in HK/Gwong jau Cantonese. He said he's heard other people before her from Guangxi say "mou yau" instead of just "mou." Is this true for your family as well?
Cantonese 'Lazy Tongue' Pronunciation。。。argee what you said in this video. Your Cantonese is good enough to stay in Hong Kong.
Yes, so many words with lazy tongue in Cantonese
On top of the ng ----> __
n ------> l sound changes you mentioned,
in Guangxi Cantonese (or at least from the 70's, which is the form my mother taught me and my siblings)
the w in Hong Kong pronunciation is a "v" for me.
So guangdong wah is guangdong vah for me
Oh wow, I've never heard that before, that's so interesting!
Thank you for this! I had no idea what "lazy tongue" was. Would it be mostly due to the locale? I know the HK cantonese accent is slightly different from in Guangzhou cantonese accent
You are absolutely right about lazy tongue. I can speak fluent Cantonese, I much prefer people speak with the proper pronunciation.
I love to watch your videos. You are a very lovely and intelligent lady. You are doing a great job.
The ng sound is very hard so definitely the lazy sound for that one. Mixing it with the l and n sounds is alright, but most people in HK go with the l sound.
I actually brought this up with my Hong Kong mother many years ago. I'm an ABC. I think I actually offended her (pointing out her lazy tone) and I wonder if this is probably more common with the "boomer" generation. I'm sure you can get this with many languages
On the flip I've heard someone being laughed at for pronunciating things correctly
what hong kong tv dramas you watching
I think it is kind of like the two pronunciations of "better" in British English, namely the glottal T sound.
The linguistic terms I think you're thinking of is "prescriptivism" and "descriptivism".
Yes, thank you! I later found it out AFTER I had made the video haha
Wait how do you get pleco to do Cantonese instead of mandarin?
In the settings, you can switch canto mode on :)
But you dont know there’s another Cantonese tone in Saigon Vietnam
Which sound more different
They can’t speak C Z a does they will speak Ch instead
And tone sound they can’t speak 1st tone, instead they will speak a littler higher
And the 6th tone which they will switch to 4,5 tone
I am your Cantonese fan in US. You're absolutely impressive .
omg i haaate the lazy tongue, when i go to hk i find it so annoying hearing people talk like that lol Girl, you do you! I'm BBC and all my chinese friends pronounce words properly here in the uk, i find the lazy tongue more common in hk
Can you share the name of the app you referred to?
Pleco
I was born in Hong Kong. When I came to America, someone (from a non-native Cantonese city/area) told me that my Cantonese was wrong for saying words like Lei instead of Nei. I was like (in my mind), “who are you to tell me that my Cantonese is wrong when my native language is Cantonese?!”.
I have to say knowing the standard way to pronounce those words with Ng and N sounds is a good thing, but pushing yourself to say the proper way is not necessary. If it slows you down, then definitely don’t. Speaking with lazy tongue will only make you sound more like a native Hongkonger, so why not?
When we sing in Cantonese, we almost always sing with standard Cantonese. I guess that links to how we use written Chinese too.
One more thing, blue is Laam, not Naam. Usually when Mandarin is L sound, Cantonese is L sound also.
Thank you for letting me know! Sometimes I find it confusing to know whether a word has an actual L sound or if it's just lazy pronunciation, but now I have a way to know!
Personally for me, I've been learning how to speak the proper way since the beginning of my studies and so I find that it doesn't slow me down because it's just what I'm used to! I wouldn't encourage a new learner to force themselves to speak the proper way, I think to each their own!
Thank you for watching ^^
No, lazy tongue is not like gonna, it is much like cockney, you guy skip out "t" sound, like button, you guy say bu..un, right?
For native Cantonese speaker, it's okay to use lazy tongue, but it's not a thing to proud of or a way to show off you are more native than other, avoid it at your best effort. unlike English, Cantonese is not for rap, it's very difficult to create flow in such a language if not impossible, so missing a word or twisting the sound would make it weird to listen.
For me, I think the most difficult part for English speakers to master Cantonese is, you just can't understand the right time to use, 呢、咩、㗎、喎、呀、喇，these kind of words, even you use it right, but you may not sound it right.
keep up your effort Grace, you are brilliant, for just four years, I've been studying English since primary school, and I'm still learning everyday.
What i do is omitting "h".
I really think you should check out " Ben Sir 教你廣東話" on TH-cam. He is specialize Cantonese language, also professor from Hong Kong University. Check out his video is very cool and funny, you will definitely like it and enjoy it😁😋😘
And 神駒 本土台 on youtube , is the one speak the most correct Cantonese pronunciation, also specialize Chinese and Cantonese.. you will love it 😊😉😃
Hi Grace. I just saw this video about how it's ok or maybe even better to use lazy tongue for Cantonese. Here is the link for your reference th-cam.com/video/4JatiaJ5rBs/w-d-xo.html Hope you like the video.
we rarely pick on the word me and you for lazy tone but others word.
‘Lei’ being an incorrect pronunciation being a problem amongst the ‘young’ is a just plain misinformation used to vilify the youth. As a native speaker with parents/grandparents whose native language is Cantonese, ‘lei’ is the pronunciation I grew up hearing. If you listen to true Hong Kongers, be it on the streets, or just check out some old films/TV series (pre-97), this is the pronunciation you’re likely to hear.
It’s like saying the Irish don’t speak English correctly. (or any regional UK accent for that matter) ‘Nei’ in singing, and ‘Lei’ in conversation is the norm, it’s a bit like how an English singer’s regional accent often doesn’t come through when singing. The ‘n’ being dropped is a Hong Konger’s tone, not the youth’s fault. You’ll find that when older Cantonese people try to say “No” in English (with an accent), it’ll sound like “Lo’. It’s merely their natural accent.
Each language has some regional variance, it's interesting to learn of the differences, but don't listen to those trying to eliminate HK culture! Add oil Guresu, you're doing great!
Yeah, that’s why I didn’t say in the video that ‘lei’ was only spoken by young people. I said that it’s the norm in the streets of Hong Kong and I even mentioned that I’ve heard the older generation speaking in this way too. Thanks for watching x
@@Guresu Oh I didn't mean you sorry, I was referring to some of the comments in response, as it's one of those things that's been frequently touted around.
Actually the "proper" or the dictionary way to say 我愛你 (I love you) is /ngo5 oi3 nei5/.
/ngo5 ngoi3 nei5/ is an over-correction. (Really! Look it up.)
Likewise, the word 藍 (blue) is actually pronounced /laam4/ and /naam4/ is an over-correction.
However, these common words 寧(silence) 囊(pouch) 農(farming) do have has the dictionary pronunciations of /ning4/ /nong4/ /nung4/ respectivelt, all with the /n-/ onset consonant and not /l-/.
Not even HK people might know these facts. Most HK people are aware that some words have a different dictionary pronunciation but they maybe not know all of them and they are may not know when they are making an over-correction. Personally I don't think there is a proper way to speak any language unless you want to sound like Freddie Mercury when you speak English (which is not a bad thing).
I thin lazy tongue is perfectly fine.
im ready for the class.... oooo, finally get to know the difference.
your Cantonese better than many Hongkonger, many people pronounce no NG sound
Have you considered the addition of the ng at the beginning of some words? For example, house uk1 vs nguk1, and love oi3 vs ngoi3? Similar concept. Thank you.
I’ve experienced that in speaking Spanish. The word for right or correct is verdad but I grew up hearing verla. It can become very confusing for non native speakers.
I hope i can meet you one day. Im planning to move to the UK within a year 😄😄
I try to say it the "proper" way
6:24 lol it reminded me of this
th-cam.com/video/epWclwACtFM/w-d-xo.html
You're so good.
well, cantonese lazy tongue will make a different word 'cos there are 9 tones, so take a note of the environment, correct speech will be the best
yup , the harder thing to speak in Cantonese is we cannot say it with Lazy Tongue, I was blamed by my teacher and parents when I was primary school student. hey you have to rectify your tone without lazy tongue when speaking in Cantonese otherwise u cannot find a decent job in future, that is weird isn't it. HongKonger just request people to speak Cantonese strictly but if u speak it with lazy tongue nobody will understand you indeed. lolx
我愛你 is pronounced "ngo5 oi3 nei5" in proper way instead of ngoi3
Learn it the proper way. Not everyone is lazy like that. At least not in my circle.
Don’t lean lazy way . It’s not correct . Just like MK girl .
Personally i think that Cantonese "lazy talk" is a myth. In German language we also do not pronounce every single phonem or even every syllable. Though originally considered "the proper" way, it would sound very unnatural if you tried to force a literal pronounciation.
I speak Cantonese just from my parents. I’ve only ever known the ‘lazy’ style. Lol
You are absolutely correct. But these days, they are both very acceptable. Nobody will laugh at you either way.
not everyone in HK speaks in lazy tongue, but the laziness is getting more and more serious.
yet, probably everyone speaks with a certain degree of laziness. trend is the younger you are the "lazier" you sound.
lazy tongue is probably due to the fast pace in hk and also the original version is gradually getting lost in generations.
other than some super common lazy pronouns like nei, still about 70% of hk people are speaking in the proper way. but most youngsters think it sounds cooler to speak in lazy tongue, or many parents don't care to correct their children's pronunciation (cos almost every parents have to work and leave their kids to grow up under foreign maids' care and learn to talk probably by themselves).