This kind of mad science hour is exactly what i would do if i had the equipement and all the iem u have!! thanks, This is really informative and intresting content, definitely something new!!
I would like to mention, cables can give better ear fitment. Giving a better seal to warm up the iem sound. This could be misunderstood as a better sounding cable. But it is a better fitting cable. For example some people may have a problem of ear hooks/guides getting in the way of people's fit.
Yes. I need straight connectors on my cables or the wire enters the loop that curves behind the ear too far back in the middle of the upper ear resulting in the wire slipping off my ear. This causes the iem body to be pulled upsetting the fit.
As someone who maintains electronic equipment for a living I can tell you the values of electrical components drift with time and use. Anyone who has installed e equipment and maintained it for years can tell you that. They also change faster for some time when equipment is new. Weather with audio equipment those changes are audible is a different discussion.
Excellent, loved this. Really interesting conclusion that thwarted my expectations, unless the second dynamic driver in the FH5s somehow extends up to the lower treble/higher mids, and that is what changed with burnin (doubtful though, as you said). I would still like to see square wave responses before and after, but I understand that that might require different equipment/software. I don't say this coming from an overbearing knowledge that it would show a huge difference, but I do hypothesize that a driver speed increase (an "intuitive" effect of burnin) could be show with these. Anyway it is good to shatter myths of burnin always having a positive effect, and also cable differences... Having said that, I do have this one copper cable that challenges this a bit, but it may well come down to impedance differences or even placebo.
Burn-in is not placebo. There are many different driver technologies on the market and they all behave different with some longer playtime. The dynamic driver changes the most, because of the way how it works. Maybe the freq response changes a little but the most changes you can get are attack and decay of the driver. This changes the dynamic, timbre, detail retrival, imaging and staging. Because the dynamic driver has the most travel distance, the material which is made of are getting softer and weaker, so it is easier for the voice coil to push the diaphragm "up" and let it move back to its zero position. Image you would bend a sheet of paper 1000 times and much much more. On a specific position of the paper, there is a point with bends much easier with some time. In my experience the dynamic driver has the most burn-in effect, than the planar, magnetostatic and electrostatic driver, than the balanced armature driver and at least the EST driver. Oh and it depents on the material of the diaphragm, the diameter of the diaphragm and how much travel distance it has. So the burn-in effect is real. You can measure it with some special tools, with can detect the movement of the driver (not frequency response). If some people can hear it or not is a different story. I hope i could explain it correctly. My english is not so well. ^^"
using a different cable to make the sound of a headphone better is like using a different power cable to make your pc run faster also with the resistor modules you have, im thinking they are just in line resistors off the shelf put into a nice package. i think those kinds of resistors aren't really designed to evenly reduce analogue signals, only lower set voltages. so im guessing it changed the frequency response because at certain hz the resistor may resist the voltage more or less, but i will double check this edit: it absolutely does, its called the "skin effect" in phyiscs also really glad you did this video, it is a big eye opener!
I've not personally researched the topic of burn-in so I don't currently have a hard stance. I am however all about a scientific approach as human perception is extremely flawed. The headphone community is much better about taking a scientific approach compared to the majority of people in the hi-fi hobby. Someone said that the data set here is far too small to draw any conclusions from and I agree. It also isn't clear what variables may have potentially influenced the outcome. I'm happy to see you putting things to the test though and would certainly be interested to see more.
I had a conversation with a studio engineer about burn in, he said they always burn in monitor speakers in particular before using in production. His take was that it’s not so much the electronics but the housing and moving materials like diaphragms that change. This he said would mean it would depend on the construction but as a rule of thumb speakers would have the largest change, then headphones then IEMs. Mainly due to the scale of the housing and active materials.
BTW re cables, still not sold but impedance however small will mean some heat aka it’s a phased resistance. So most materials properties will change with thermal creep for instance, but such small amounts 😳
I believe that what we call burn in is actually us giving our brain time to get use to the new sound signature. So in other words if our brain is use to a certain sound signature and we buy something that has a slightly different or very different sound signature it might not sound good at first. As we continue listening to them our brains adapt and what sounded bad initially starts to sounding good overtime.
I used the CCA A10 to test this theory since it was so hot in the treble out of the box. The treble was pain inducing and gave me a headache. It also changed the way cymbals sounded drastically which was how I evaluated the set. I put them away for a week and listened again and they sounded the same to me. My brain didnt “adapt” to the tuning. I listened for 5 minutes tops and put them away for another week. On the third listen they sounded the same. After 100 hours of play time I did notice the treble calmed down a significant amount. They were then listenable and not pain inducing but still not enjoyable. In my experience the more expensive a set is usually equals less or even no burn in required. So I will put 50 to 100 hours on any set I hope to keep. Fiio FH3 sounded good to my ear out of the box. I think I burned them in over night for 2 consecutive nights which equaled 25 to 30 hours. The Moondrop Starfield sounded good out of the box and sounded no different to me after 50 hours. The Jade Audio EA1 which a single DD sounded great out of the box while it’s brother the EA3 which is a DD/1BA was a little hot in the treble and did calm down a touch after 80 hours. BA units still have soft moving parts inside those metal enclosures. These are my very limited observations and based on them I play any set for a few hours just to get them working before I make any assessments.
I would probably be more effective on a single driver configuration. Since the driver reproduces all the frequency alone. The moondrop aria would probably have a more noticeable difference. I will state what I think about the aria now . And let it burn in . Now . Hhsss on the top end of the vocals. Treble murder . And big bass .
Just what I needed! This replaced my morning dose of Jiro Inagaki. I've noticed some difference using the 1more companion app's burn-in feature on some iem's and even an on-ear headphone. Hope you cover some cheap flat-head earbuds and dongle dacs
It would be really interesting to see a burn-in with FR tests along the way to see if 200 hours is insane or if it really is slowly changing to that final curve over the whole time. Maybe I'll do one myself next time I get a new IEM 😁
I kind of did it unintentionally with this one, since I measured the FH5s (1) right out of the box, (2) the next day after listening to it for a while, and (3) after 200+ hours of burn-in. Here are all the measurements (with "all switches off" being the next-day measurement): squig.link/?share=Super_Review_Target,Fiio_FH5s_(T0_M0_B0),Fiio_FH5s_(0_hrs_burn-in),Fiio_FH5s_(200_hrs_burn-in)
Burn in can go the other way too. It may go from nice to naughty..which leaves us with a preference. Of course, different amp , cables or sources can reveal other preferences.
You nailed the burn-in issue. It would seem that it is more likely the brain tuning to the sound profile if you use it for more than 150 hours. If there is really burn-in issue, why do manufacturers do not issue FR before and after burn-in? Another issue here is that if this burn-in issue is true, it might go both ways - it could have a worse tuning than before. The cables/connectors plus the type of ear tips have significant impact in changing the sound profile of the iem.
It's not as simple as "impedance", the cable is part of a circuit. There's impedance, capacitance and inductance. Together there very likely is an effect on the system and it will vary by frequency.
@@SuperReview you'd need a LC meter and music has such a variable frequency over time I'm not sure. But everything in the circuit is involved there's natural resonances and the best idea is how you've been doing it. At least we can rest assured cables can and do effect the system. Even length will have some effect
I am doing a pink noise burn in using my EF 400 dac amp and Audeze MM 500 and Arya stealth headphones! See how the process goes prob won’t notice any difference at all
I don't know anything audiophelia so if I want to buy fh3 or starfield, what would you recommend? And are there other alternatives? Ur decision will be final btw I'm done watching reviews and I feel I finally found the person to ask for the final recommendation. I'm using RHA 500U now. Thank you for the recommendation.
I like FH3 better than Starfield for its stronger sense of separation in sounds, and stronger sub-bass focus. Starfield is pretty popular, both good choices.
A few years ago I was in jaben HK where they let me hear the Andromeda with the stock cable and a different cable and I could blind test pin point which one was brighter than the other.
@@SuperReview look I'm no audiophile and I have normal hearing😂😂 but that's something that I got to experiment for myself and the difference was pretty obvious. Of course I'm sure it makes a difference only for sensitive iems and with very specific cables
Could it be possible that they intentionally put a crap cable to showcase the other cable? No audiophile myself, but have seen other blind tests and they could not tell the difference between a cable and a coat hanger cable.
The bass switch isn’t supposed to lower the mid range. The mid range switch lowers the mid range. The bass didn’t look boosted there. It sounds boosted on mine. Burn-in is about materials but it is possible that not every driver needs it. It’s possible some are already at their optimal state coincidentally or any change really is inaudible. So, I think overall here, the mistake is thinking that burn-in matters in every case. It’s recommended just in case yours needs it and to give the device a fair trial. Bizarre comments about the cable thing… I don’t know if people are getting confused with the digital cable thing where it’s absolutely true that more expensive materials cannot change the 1’s and the 0’s and digital protocols also use error correction. These cables are transmitting an analog signal. It is much more fragile to external EM influence and conductivity issues in the cable materials. So, it’s 100% science that cable quality, shielding, whatever, can harm or protect the integrity of the signal. This might also link into balancing the signal. Are you working with balanced signals here to determine if there are any differences? I don’t know if the FD5 cable is the same as the cable they ship in the FH5s Pro package… which FiiO confirms is their LC-RC cable available separately. The stock, non-pro cable, can sometimes show audible distortion when you manipulate it a bit. This doesn’t happen on the LC-RC cable which has twice the strands. The fact that FiiO are shipping this in a Pro package suggests they know the stock cable is crap.
You can compare what the switches do here: squig.link/?share=Super_Review_Target,Fiio_FH5s_(T0_M0_B0),Fiio_FH5s_(T1_M0_B0),Fiio_FH5s_(T0_M1_B0),Fiio_FH5s_(T0_M0_B1),Fiio_FH5s_(T1_M1_B1) Attenuating midrange will sound as if bass is boosted. Two ways to describe the same thing, but the visual and what's measured is that, at the same volume output levels on the source, the upper midrange is lowered with the bass switch. Burn-in is a meme. I have 150+ earphones and have not observed changes over time that aren't better attributed to brain burn. Cables are a meme. Balanced cables are a meme. With few exceptions related to high cable impedance levels (
@@SuperReview ok that’s your opinion. These manufacturers are just mocking everyone and taking our money. Balanced I can say, yes most Joe Bloggs won’t experience interference or crosstalk and they don’t need a balanced signal. Doesn’t hurt though. Could think of it as an insurance policy. Your results seem odd to me. They are not what is advertised and what I’m sure I’ve seen others measure. The bass switch should boost the bass frequencies by around 4db. The mid switch should lower the mids by around 4db and the treble switch should post the treble by 4db. Am I reading that right? Your mid switch resulted in no impact at all? Doesn’t happen on mine. The mids are definitely lowered enhancing the perceived bass as you say and/or easing the effect of the tinny treble on these.
The mids switch appears to increase 3kHz by about 1dB. squig.link/?share=Super_Review_Target,Fiio_FH5s_(T0_M0_B0),Fiio_FH5s_(T0_M1_B0) Crinacle measured the same effect on a completely separate FH5s unit: crinacle.com/graphs/iems/graphtool/?share=IEF_Neutral_Target,FH5s,FH5s_M The cables talk is not just my opinion, it's my experience after having tested myself, creating scenarios where I could blind A-B to rule out placebo. If you have different experience, enjoy. After testing myself, and having never seen anyone post a video of them blind A-B differentiating between cables, I am not inclined to believe there's anything real there.
I'm not certain, but this might be the same seller I bought from. www.ebay.com/itm/303354532885 There are other options, but most don't come in impedances as low as 15. The seller I bought from was able to do them at custom ratings.
I have experienced serious burn in with 2 IEMs , IMR IEMs to be specific. With others zero to a little burn in though , mostly in the bass area, becoming a bit tighter also maybe EST treble becoming a tiny bit smoother.
@@SuperReview Well, IMR is notorious for burn in, they go through phases of good , worse, horrible and finally great. I don't know how but it happens, lol. With Clairvoyance and Mest it was negative for me, they lost the pizazze they had in the bass for me.
@@KesevarIt's possible. If true all this people with this kind of mind power and bond is special. I think we should all explore the powers of our minds a little. Lol
Or is the difference meaningful? I think we all can achieve differences- audio companies release new models of anything and everything, and true to the advertisement, they are different! But..are they improved? 2000 dollars improved?
cable do matters, but usually people change cable, just to make the tuning different, but not better. The easiest comparison: a pure copper cable vs a pure silver copper cable.
@@SuperReviewYour assumption on impedance is correct, and thats why the sound will change, particularly on a full-BA iem. Try using a pure copper cable vs a pure silver cable (no copper), on a single BA iem, the differences should stand out: 1. higher noise floor on silver cable 2. lower volume required on silver cable 3.faster bass attack on silver cable. People around me tends to use thousands of dollars to buy a fancy cable (made of gold or whatever) , but i always doubt their decisions to mess with the original tuning of an iem/ headphones.
@@SuperReview The tricky thing is that: every "upgrade" cable is thicker than what normally an adequate cable should be, which makes the difference stand out.
maybe the treble region changes instead of the bass region despite the dynamic driver producing the bass because the bass becomes cleaner allowing more of the treble through? just my moron hypothesis
Hey, I'm looking to upgrade my IEMs. My price range is $400. I was trying to get your input on the Hifi P2s but didn't get a response. I hear they are slightly better than Moondrop B2 but really need to be Amp driven to really see them shine. What are your thoughts. My taste in IEMs is Mids and warmth 1st and foremost. What's out there that would fit my needs?
Brett, if mids and warmth is first and foremost, I can heartily recommend the Shure SE535, if you can spend 449.00 USD. These are my daily drivers, they are are very smooth, warm, with the mids emphasized. The treble is there but gently rolled off. They are sensitive, and despite the 36 Ohm impedance, they are easily driven by any source without an external amp. It's one of the few IEMs in my collection I can honestly say I would replace if it were lost or stolen.
If I need to run anything for 200 hours before it is ready to use then you released an unfinished product. I am guessing it is more about getting people to hold the product past the return window than any real benefit to the consumer
I don't think it's intentionally deceptive to outlast return windows, it's just a meme that audiophiles perpetuate and a last ditch effort for manufacturers to keep customers happy.
@@SuperReview I have a cable I bought from toxic cables for my hd650. and although it's not the most convenient cable in the world and I would rather not use it. It sounds way better than the stock cable. Just looking at the frequency response is like saying that if 2 headphones have the same frequency response they will sound the same. There are many attributes to sound
@@SuperReview yes point taken, be back in a light year to check results again. Cheers lots of work you did here, appreciated. How do you like the legacy 5s?
Probably the worst set of IEM's from Fiio ever, i don't know if only my set was screwed up or all of them are the same, but Fiio's old sound engineers seemed to have been replaced with some new teeny boppers who like to play pubg and cod, so they designed these earphones for their gaming needs. The set of IEM's was so pathetic that i immediately sold them off within 15 days. First i, like every other music lover, waited, thinking this must be the "burning-in" period, but even after using it for almost 6 hours a day over a period of 15 days, the sound quality didn't improve, i even added it to my Fiio Q1 headphone amplifier, thinking that my Music player might not be able to produce enough power to run these, but sadly even with the amp/dac, these sounded horrible.
@@SuperReview The sound was so freaking loud, and not the 'Good' kinda loud, i mean it was so annoyingly loud, then the low's were almost neglible with harly any gain, the mids were fine, the vocals not so much....
Tips I have seen make a measurable difference. Here's an example: squig.link/?share=Super_Review_Target,Sennheiser_IE_300_(Sedna_Light),Sennheiser_IE_300_(Final_E),Sennheiser_IE_300
Burn-in is placebo. It's just getting used to the way the headset sounds. I don't know anyone who claims: My headphones sounded perfect right out of the box, now after 200 hours of use, they sound worse.
Actually the FD5 sounded better to me out of the box, and got worse over time after more than 150 hours. It lost speed and dynamics, decay became longer, also more natural, the harsh treble is more subdued, so it's kinda 50/50 but I definitely liked the sound fresh out of the box more.
Cables definitely do change the sound. I’ve seen on the cheap iems I use, a clearly difference between a KBEAR KS2 cable and TRN ST1, where I simply couldn’t clearly hear the lead instruments on Two Steps From Hell’s Victory when I used the KS2’s cable on the ST1 compared to when I use the ST1’s cable. It was so evident that I became a believer that cables make a difference.
Don't really understand the reason for all this hot air about whether or not burn ins are real or does different wires make a difference in the sound signature. Of course they do and of course the burn in is real! Having burned in many cables as well as amps preamps iems head phones and there is clearly a difference before and after the burn in. Burn in does make or has made my devices sound much much better.
@@SuperReview More than 10db swing between 700Hz and 8kHz... Nasty dip right in the vocal range 300 to 1k. Big peak in the 8k.... A speaker behaving like that would be destroyed in reviews!
Almost every IEM has peaks and dips on these IEC711 measurements. Here's how the FH5s compares to my favorite-tuned IEM, the Moondrop Blessing 2. squig.link/?share=Moondrop_Blessing_2_Target,Fiio_FH5s_(200_hrs_burn-in)
Get your own Hi-Rez Placebo pin: super-review-merch.creator-spring.com/listing/hi-rez-placebo-collectible-pin
This kind of mad science hour is exactly what i would do if i had the equipement and all the iem u have!! thanks, This is really informative and intresting content, definitely something new!!
I'm open to suggestions for other tests / measurements 👍
I would like to mention, cables can give better ear fitment. Giving a better seal to warm up the iem sound.
This could be misunderstood as a better sounding cable. But it is a better fitting cable.
For example some people may have a problem of ear hooks/guides getting in the way of people's fit.
True.
Yes. I need straight connectors on my cables or the wire enters the loop that curves behind the ear too far back in the middle of the upper ear resulting in the wire slipping off my ear. This causes the iem body to be pulled upsetting the fit.
Very interesting video, scientific enough for me. Thanks man
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As someone who maintains electronic equipment for a living I can tell you the values of electrical components drift with time and use. Anyone who has installed e equipment and maintained it for years can tell you that. They also change faster for some time when equipment is new. Weather with audio equipment those changes are audible is a different discussion.
You deserve way more subs.. your contents are lit, you are quite underrated.. ☺️
I'm tryin' 🤙
You are giving valuable message for music lovers. Thanks for sharing
Thanks a lot, this is the kind of videos that give me trust in your work !
Excellent, loved this. Really interesting conclusion that thwarted my expectations, unless the second dynamic driver in the FH5s somehow extends up to the lower treble/higher mids, and that is what changed with burnin (doubtful though, as you said).
I would still like to see square wave responses before and after, but I understand that that might require different equipment/software. I don't say this coming from an overbearing knowledge that it would show a huge difference, but I do hypothesize that a driver speed increase (an "intuitive" effect of burnin) could be show with these.
Anyway it is good to shatter myths of burnin always having a positive effect, and also cable differences... Having said that, I do have this one copper cable that challenges this a bit, but it may well come down to impedance differences or even placebo.
Q
You're a genius, thanks for providing us with science based evidence! Look forward to you FH5s review and see how it compares with my beloved FD5's!
Burn-in is not placebo. There are many different driver technologies on the market and they all behave different with some longer playtime.
The dynamic driver changes the most, because of the way how it works. Maybe the freq response changes a little but the most changes you can get are attack and decay of the driver. This changes the dynamic, timbre, detail retrival, imaging and staging.
Because the dynamic driver has the most travel distance, the material which is made of are getting softer and weaker, so it is easier for the voice coil to push the diaphragm "up" and let it move back to its zero position. Image you would bend a sheet of paper 1000 times and much much more. On a specific position of the paper, there is a point with bends much easier with some time.
In my experience the dynamic driver has the most burn-in effect, than the planar, magnetostatic and electrostatic driver, than the balanced armature driver and at least the EST driver.
Oh and it depents on the material of the diaphragm, the diameter of the diaphragm and how much travel distance it has. So the burn-in effect is real. You can measure it with some special tools, with can detect the movement of the driver (not frequency response).
If some people can hear it or not is a different story. I hope i could explain it correctly. My english is not so well. ^^"
using a different cable to make the sound of a headphone better is like using a different power cable to make your pc run faster
also with the resistor modules you have, im thinking they are just in line resistors off the shelf put into a nice package. i think those kinds of resistors aren't really designed to evenly reduce analogue signals, only lower set voltages. so im guessing it changed the frequency response because at certain hz the resistor may resist the voltage more or less,
but i will double check this
edit: it absolutely does, its called the "skin effect" in phyiscs
also really glad you did this video, it is a big eye opener!
I'm really bad at understanding electricity, so I don't know how the impedance adapters work. Just know that they do 👍
I've not personally researched the topic of burn-in so I don't currently have a hard stance. I am however all about a scientific approach as human perception is extremely flawed. The headphone community is much better about taking a scientific approach compared to the majority of people in the hi-fi hobby. Someone said that the data set here is far too small to draw any conclusions from and I agree. It also isn't clear what variables may have potentially influenced the outcome. I'm happy to see you putting things to the test though and would certainly be interested to see more.
I had a conversation with a studio engineer about burn in, he said they always burn in monitor speakers in particular before using in production. His take was that it’s not so much the electronics but the housing and moving materials like diaphragms that change. This he said would mean it would depend on the construction but as a rule of thumb speakers would have the largest change, then headphones then IEMs. Mainly due to the scale of the housing and active materials.
BTW re cables, still not sold but impedance however small will mean some heat aka it’s a phased resistance. So most materials properties will change with thermal creep for instance, but such small amounts 😳
I believe that what we call burn in is actually us giving our brain time to get use to the new sound signature. So in other words if our brain is use to a certain sound signature and we buy something that has a slightly different or very different sound signature it might not sound good at first. As we continue listening to them our brains adapt and what sounded bad initially starts to sounding good overtime.
Definitely a factor, and probably the biggest.
I used the CCA A10 to test this theory since it was so hot in the treble out of the box. The treble was pain inducing and gave me a headache. It also changed the way cymbals sounded drastically which was how I evaluated the set. I put them away for a week and listened again and they sounded the same to me. My brain didnt “adapt” to the tuning. I listened for 5 minutes tops and put them away for another week. On the third listen they sounded the same. After 100 hours of play time I did notice the treble calmed down a significant amount. They were then listenable and not pain inducing but still not enjoyable.
In my experience the more expensive a set is usually equals less or even no burn in required. So I will put 50 to 100 hours on any set I hope to keep. Fiio FH3 sounded good to my ear out of the box. I think I burned them in over night for 2 consecutive nights which equaled 25 to 30 hours. The Moondrop Starfield sounded good out of the box and sounded no different to me after 50 hours. The Jade Audio EA1 which a single DD sounded great out of the box while it’s brother the EA3 which is a DD/1BA was a little hot in the treble and did calm down a touch after 80 hours. BA units still have soft moving parts inside those metal enclosures.
These are my very limited observations and based on them I play any set for a few hours just to get them working before I make any assessments.
Good experiment
I would probably be more effective on a single driver configuration. Since the driver reproduces all the frequency alone.
The moondrop aria would probably have a more noticeable difference.
I will state what I think about the aria now .
And let it burn in .
Now .
Hhsss on the top end of the vocals.
Treble murder .
And big bass .
Just what I needed! This replaced my morning dose of Jiro Inagaki.
I've noticed some difference using the 1more companion app's burn-in feature on some iem's and even an on-ear headphone. Hope you cover some cheap flat-head earbuds and dongle dacs
About time a reviewer made these tests. Kudos to you Sir.
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Well I know what channel to watch to learn how to use REW!!
It would be really interesting to see a burn-in with FR tests along the way to see if 200 hours is insane or if it really is slowly changing to that final curve over the whole time. Maybe I'll do one myself next time I get a new IEM 😁
I kind of did it unintentionally with this one, since I measured the FH5s (1) right out of the box, (2) the next day after listening to it for a while, and (3) after 200+ hours of burn-in. Here are all the measurements (with "all switches off" being the next-day measurement): squig.link/?share=Super_Review_Target,Fiio_FH5s_(T0_M0_B0),Fiio_FH5s_(0_hrs_burn-in),Fiio_FH5s_(200_hrs_burn-in)
Burn in can go the other way too. It may go from nice to naughty..which leaves us with a preference. Of course, different amp , cables or sources can reveal other preferences.
Yes
You nailed the burn-in issue. It would seem that it is more likely the brain tuning to the sound profile if you use it for more than 150 hours. If there is really burn-in issue, why do manufacturers do not issue FR before and after burn-in? Another issue here is that if this burn-in issue is true, it might go both ways - it could have a worse tuning than before. The cables/connectors plus the type of ear tips have significant impact in changing the sound profile of the iem.
It's not as simple as "impedance", the cable is part of a circuit. There's impedance, capacitance and inductance. Together there very likely is an effect on the system and it will vary by frequency.
How does one measure or otherwise determine capacitance and inductance?
@@SuperReview you'd need a LC meter and music has such a variable frequency over time I'm not sure. But everything in the circuit is involved there's natural resonances and the best idea is how you've been doing it. At least we can rest assured cables can and do effect the system. Even length will have some effect
Yes, to me is very real... I have noticed with several iem and high range portable dacs...
Hi Mark, great video, what about the temperature conditions for your measurements? Ar you sure the tips are fitting exactely the same ? Thanks again
Nope, that falls into the realm of "real-world analog stuff that's messy and variable."
I need to get my hands on that measuring tool my man
Blammo: www.aliexpress.com/item/4000789796521.html
@@SuperReview Whoa!! Cool!!
I am doing a pink noise burn in using my EF 400 dac amp and Audeze MM 500 and Arya stealth headphones! See how the process goes prob won’t notice any difference at all
Godspeed.
I just buy custom cables for aesthetics, I don't like the silver or copper look. I always go for just a black cable with whatever material is inside.
I don't know anything audiophelia so if I want to buy fh3 or starfield, what would you recommend?
And are there other alternatives?
Ur decision will be final btw I'm done watching reviews and I feel I finally found the person to ask for the final recommendation.
I'm using RHA 500U now.
Thank you for the recommendation.
I like FH3 better than Starfield for its stronger sense of separation in sounds, and stronger sub-bass focus. Starfield is pretty popular, both good choices.
@@SuperReview ok.
I'm going to buy fh3.
Thanks
cant wait comparison fh5s and dusk 2. try changing total different cable like 4 core 8 core
I don't think core count will change anything ✌️
A few years ago I was in jaben HK where they let me hear the Andromeda with the stock cable and a different cable and I could blind test pin point which one was brighter than the other.
I've heard the Andro is particularly sensitive to that stuff, but haven't experimented for myself.
@@SuperReview look I'm no audiophile and I have normal hearing😂😂 but that's something that I got to experiment for myself and the difference was pretty obvious. Of course I'm sure it makes a difference only for sensitive iems and with very specific cables
Could it be possible that they intentionally put a crap cable to showcase the other cable? No audiophile myself, but have seen other blind tests and they could not tell the difference between a cable and a coat hanger cable.
thanks for all... i give you 5 stars..
Fiio fh5s vs ibasso am05 which one is better for pop,pop balad,r&b,edm kpop, vocal
Never heard the AM05, and I don't make genre-based recommendations.
@@SuperReview do u think fiio fh5s is the best on it budget range ?
No, I didn't really like the FH5s. th-cam.com/video/PigNifyLGho/w-d-xo.html
These are my favorite around that price: squig.link/list/?price-zone=6
@@SuperReview i recommend u try out ibasso fh5s and flc8s the sound quality of these iems is better than blessing 2 -.-
I have the FLC8p, it's a fun product but probably the most sibilant I have.
Hi
How do you like the legacy 5s?
Quite like it, one of my favorites I've tried this year.
The bass switch isn’t supposed to lower the mid range. The mid range switch lowers the mid range. The bass didn’t look boosted there. It sounds boosted on mine.
Burn-in is about materials but it is possible that not every driver needs it. It’s possible some are already at their optimal state coincidentally or any change really is inaudible. So, I think overall here, the mistake is thinking that burn-in matters in every case. It’s recommended just in case yours needs it and to give the device a fair trial.
Bizarre comments about the cable thing… I don’t know if people are getting confused with the digital cable thing where it’s absolutely true that more expensive materials cannot change the 1’s and the 0’s and digital protocols also use error correction. These cables are transmitting an analog signal. It is much more fragile to external EM influence and conductivity issues in the cable materials. So, it’s 100% science that cable quality, shielding, whatever, can harm or protect the integrity of the signal. This might also link into balancing the signal. Are you working with balanced signals here to determine if there are any differences?
I don’t know if the FD5 cable is the same as the cable they ship in the FH5s Pro package… which FiiO confirms is their LC-RC cable available separately. The stock, non-pro cable, can sometimes show audible distortion when you manipulate it a bit. This doesn’t happen on the LC-RC cable which has twice the strands. The fact that FiiO are shipping this in a Pro package suggests they know the stock cable is crap.
You can compare what the switches do here: squig.link/?share=Super_Review_Target,Fiio_FH5s_(T0_M0_B0),Fiio_FH5s_(T1_M0_B0),Fiio_FH5s_(T0_M1_B0),Fiio_FH5s_(T0_M0_B1),Fiio_FH5s_(T1_M1_B1)
Attenuating midrange will sound as if bass is boosted. Two ways to describe the same thing, but the visual and what's measured is that, at the same volume output levels on the source, the upper midrange is lowered with the bass switch.
Burn-in is a meme. I have 150+ earphones and have not observed changes over time that aren't better attributed to brain burn.
Cables are a meme. Balanced cables are a meme. With few exceptions related to high cable impedance levels (
@@SuperReview ok that’s your opinion. These manufacturers are just mocking everyone and taking our money.
Balanced I can say, yes most Joe Bloggs won’t experience interference or crosstalk and they don’t need a balanced signal. Doesn’t hurt though. Could think of it as an insurance policy.
Your results seem odd to me. They are not what is advertised and what I’m sure I’ve seen others measure. The bass switch should boost the bass frequencies by around 4db. The mid switch should lower the mids by around 4db and the treble switch should post the treble by 4db.
Am I reading that right? Your mid switch resulted in no impact at all? Doesn’t happen on mine. The mids are definitely lowered enhancing the perceived bass as you say and/or easing the effect of the tinny treble on these.
The mids switch appears to increase 3kHz by about 1dB. squig.link/?share=Super_Review_Target,Fiio_FH5s_(T0_M0_B0),Fiio_FH5s_(T0_M1_B0)
Crinacle measured the same effect on a completely separate FH5s unit: crinacle.com/graphs/iems/graphtool/?share=IEF_Neutral_Target,FH5s,FH5s_M
The cables talk is not just my opinion, it's my experience after having tested myself, creating scenarios where I could blind A-B to rule out placebo. If you have different experience, enjoy. After testing myself, and having never seen anyone post a video of them blind A-B differentiating between cables, I am not inclined to believe there's anything real there.
Which a better fh3 or fh5s please.
Will cover in the review this week.
Great!
This changes everything., what happens with a lifetime of burn in???
They become Grados 👼
Can you link those impedance adapters?
I'm not certain, but this might be the same seller I bought from. www.ebay.com/itm/303354532885
There are other options, but most don't come in impedances as low as 15. The seller I bought from was able to do them at custom ratings.
This was interesting X)
I am afraid of what I've done.
@@SuperReview anybody like worms fresh can open in here 😂
I have experienced serious burn in with 2 IEMs , IMR IEMs to be specific. With others zero to a little burn in though , mostly in the bass area, becoming a bit tighter also maybe EST treble becoming a tiny bit smoother.
Did they get better or worse?
@@SuperReview Well, IMR is notorious for burn in, they go through phases of good , worse, horrible and finally great. I don't know how but it happens, lol.
With Clairvoyance and Mest it was negative for me, they lost the pizazze they had in the bass for me.
I think it's more likely the case of IMR head-fi thread being full of delusional people, who constantly repeat this nonsense.
@@KesevarIt's possible. If true all this people with this kind of mind power and bond is special. I think we should all explore the powers of our minds a little. Lol
Cables do make a difference I got the upgraded KZ zsn pro upgrade cable sent it right back stock cable was better !
where is the unboxing?
th-cam.com/video/c89Pk8fsmEc/w-d-xo.html
Or is the difference meaningful? I think we all can achieve differences- audio companies release new models of anything and everything, and true to the advertisement, they are different! But..are they improved? 2000 dollars improved?
Nah, the difference isn't meaningful.
cable do matters, but usually people change cable, just to make the tuning different, but not better. The easiest comparison: a pure copper cable vs a pure silver copper cable.
I can't hear a difference between any of my cables.
@@SuperReviewYour assumption on impedance is correct, and thats why the sound will change, particularly on a full-BA iem. Try using a pure copper cable vs a pure silver cable (no copper), on a single BA iem, the differences should stand out: 1. higher noise floor on silver cable 2. lower volume required on silver cable 3.faster bass attack on silver cable. People around me tends to use thousands of dollars to buy a fancy cable (made of gold or whatever) , but i always doubt their decisions to mess with the original tuning of an iem/ headphones.
I dunno if the difference between 0.1 and 0.5 ohms will be audible even on a BA set.
@@SuperReview The tricky thing is that: every "upgrade" cable is thicker than what normally an adequate cable should be, which makes the difference stand out.
At these lengths cables don’t matter. Cables are passive. Capacitance is the only thing that really matters and at these lengths it’s meaningless.
maybe the treble region changes instead of the bass region despite the dynamic driver producing the bass because the bass becomes cleaner allowing more of the treble through? just my moron hypothesis
If the treble change was less isolated, I could get on board with that hypothesis -- but it's such a narrowly-focused change I find it unlikely.
FH5s or FH5?
Review this week.
Hey, I'm looking to upgrade my IEMs. My price range is $400. I was trying to get your input on the Hifi P2s but didn't get a response. I hear they are slightly better than Moondrop B2 but really need to be Amp driven to really see them shine. What are your thoughts. My taste in IEMs is Mids and warmth 1st and foremost. What's out there that would fit my needs?
I haven't heard P2, so can't say on that. You'd probably like EST 112, but under $400 not sure.
Thanks ALOT
Brett, if mids and warmth is first and foremost, I can heartily recommend the Shure SE535, if you can spend 449.00 USD. These are my daily drivers, they are are very smooth, warm, with the mids emphasized. The treble is there but gently rolled off. They are sensitive, and despite the 36 Ohm impedance, they are easily driven by any source without an external amp. It's one of the few IEMs in my collection I can honestly say I would replace if it were lost or stolen.
But ALL manufacturers say to burn in the armatures🤦
If I need to run anything for 200 hours before it is ready to use then you released an unfinished product. I am guessing it is more about getting people to hold the product past the return window than any real benefit to the consumer
I don't think it's intentionally deceptive to outlast return windows, it's just a meme that audiophiles perpetuate and a last ditch effort for manufacturers to keep customers happy.
Cable usually make changes in how sound transition between frequencies and does not alter the height of them
Can't say I've had that experience.
@@SuperReview I have a cable I bought from toxic cables for my hd650. and although it's not the most convenient cable in the world and I would rather not use it. It sounds way better than the stock cable. Just looking at the frequency response is like saying that if 2 headphones have the same frequency response they will sound the same. There are many attributes to sound
Is burn in real... is entropy real?
There you go, next question.
I guess a matter of scale and time horizon, no?
@@SuperReview yes point taken, be back in a light year to check results again. Cheers lots of work you did here, appreciated. How do you like the legacy 5s?
Marvin of error mate
Yes.
Probably the worst set of IEM's from Fiio ever, i don't know if only my set was screwed up or all of them are the same, but Fiio's old sound engineers seemed to have been replaced with some new teeny boppers who like to play pubg and cod, so they designed these earphones for their gaming needs. The set of IEM's was so pathetic that i immediately sold them off within 15 days. First i, like every other music lover, waited, thinking this must be the "burning-in" period, but even after using it for almost 6 hours a day over a period of 15 days, the sound quality didn't improve, i even added it to my Fiio Q1 headphone amplifier, thinking that my Music player might not be able to produce enough power to run these, but sadly even with the amp/dac, these sounded horrible.
What specifically were your issues with the sound?
@@SuperReview The sound was so freaking loud, and not the 'Good' kinda loud, i mean it was so annoyingly loud, then the low's were almost neglible with harly any gain, the mids were fine, the vocals not so much....
😍😍🤩
This is my new ASMR go to
I need a new mic.
Nicely Done, but.
Taking 3 videos to get your full thoughts on the FH5s. :(
Just my humble opinion..
Sorry, I don't follow -- what's your opinion?
Next time also do different tips mythbuster.
Tips I have seen make a measurable difference. Here's an example: squig.link/?share=Super_Review_Target,Sennheiser_IE_300_(Sedna_Light),Sennheiser_IE_300_(Final_E),Sennheiser_IE_300
Burn-in is placebo. It's just getting used to the way the headset sounds.
I don't know anyone who claims: My headphones sounded perfect right out of the box, now after 200 hours of use, they sound worse.
It is funny that burn-in stories almost universally claim that sound improves, almost never gets worse 🧐
Actually the FD5 sounded better to me out of the box, and got worse over time after more than 150 hours. It lost speed and dynamics, decay became longer, also more natural, the harsh treble is more subdued, so it's kinda 50/50 but I definitely liked the sound fresh out of the box more.
Cables definitely do change the sound. I’ve seen on the cheap iems I use, a clearly difference between a KBEAR KS2 cable and TRN ST1, where I simply couldn’t clearly hear the lead instruments on Two Steps From Hell’s Victory when I used the KS2’s cable on the ST1 compared to when I use the ST1’s cable. It was so evident that I became a believer that cables make a difference.
Sounds like it was a broken cable.
Don't really understand the reason for all this hot air about whether or not burn ins are real or does different wires make a difference in the sound signature. Of course they do and of course the burn in is real! Having burned in many cables as well as amps preamps iems head phones and there is clearly a difference before and after the burn in. Burn in does make or has made my devices sound much much better.
I don't think it's as settled as you think it is.
300$ headphones that measure that bad.... Ouch.
What looks "that bad" to you?
@@SuperReview More than 10db swing between 700Hz and 8kHz... Nasty dip right in the vocal range 300 to 1k. Big peak in the 8k.... A speaker behaving like that would be destroyed in reviews!
I don't think you can compare IEM measurements to speaker measurements.
@@SuperReview Still a bad curve with peaks and dips...
Almost every IEM has peaks and dips on these IEC711 measurements. Here's how the FH5s compares to my favorite-tuned IEM, the Moondrop Blessing 2. squig.link/?share=Moondrop_Blessing_2_Target,Fiio_FH5s_(200_hrs_burn-in)