"I used to hate the world and I was happy when everyone died. But I was wrong. Because there was one person worth saving. That's what I did: I saved him. And I protected him. That's why men like you and me are here: We have a job to do. And God help any motherfuckers who stand in our way." -*Bill* “Well kids die, Henry. They die all the time. You think the whole world revolves around him? That he’s worth everything?" -*Kathleen* “The only people who can betray us are the ones we trust.” -*Maria* "Do you trust me?" -*Joel* Loved all the foreshadowing sprinkled throughout the season!
some of those lines were too on the nose in my opinion, they didn't ruin anything for me but on the Bill letter I was rolling my eyes for how obvious the writers were
@@rgg6383 im mean they are obvious to us who already know, so its an easter egg, for those who don't they aren't obvious at all they're pretty generic and natural conversation
@@hehaowei5228 yeah.. no. Disagree, watched some reactions where they say "Ellie" and some even think the letter says "Ellie" because they don't even think Frank didn't even knew who Ellie was
So well done! Not gonna lie, seeing Joel slaughter the Fireflies in live action hit much differently....really made me think like it has to catch up with him sooner or later.
I think the issue was also that they were willing to risk killing Ellie on the doctor’s assumption that the procedure would be successful. She said the doctor “thinks” it will work. There had to have been other ways to test before digging into her brain
Fantastic and emotional episode. I like the add when Joel confessed that he tried to kill himself and that he directly says to Ellie that she saved him, had me all teary eyed
I can see them moving things around for the show Vs. the game. It will make more sense to use an episode for a flash back, to explain upcoming motives. As someone who has played the series more times than I care to admit, this show is the BEST adaptation of one form of media to another, in the history of the medium, IMO.
It is so cool to see these shots, seeing downtown Calgary transform into these places, walking by the sets everyday wondering how it was going to turn out.
that thing about flinching when shooting is real, the thing is that it's more common with begginers, this is why when people are learning to shoot a gun its asked to pull the trigger slowly, because it's easy to flinch and miss the target
i don't think so, even if marlene confirm it 100% Joel would still do the same, that's his daughter now. when sarah died he couldn't do anything to save her and he sure as hell would do everything he can to save ellie
@@lkcullen1918 oh oops I misread that lol yeah I feel like if the fireflies were able to make this work everything would have to be perfect and I don’t think it ever could be for them
Marlene said "she understood", but she didnt, cause she never spent time with Ellie, she dropped her off as a baby and let the system raise her. She had zero connection with Ellie, while Joel created a connection, that of a father and a daughter. Telling her that he almost ended his life is letting us know that in no way in hell is he going to go thru all of that again and lose another daughter. They were all dead the moment they made the decision to sacrifice her.
@@KCohere33 he said "you dont understand" and she said she did. how could she ?. As far as we know she doesnt have kids, and if she did, did she ever experience the loss of a child and what it would mean to lose another ?. failing at a promise u made to your friend so u can save the world its not the same, and she never promised to keep her safe. just that she would take her to someone to raise her and she sent her to FEDRA of al places. Failing at that promise from the beginning. Absolutely NO PARENT would ever pick the world over their child. Their child is their world, Humanity be damned, so she didnt understand.
Joel did the exact same thing he criticised Marlene of doing, which is to not let Ellie decide. That means Joel is a hypocrite...😐 Joel told Ellie "They've stopped looking for a cure".
@@tsheporabekane4172 well of course he is. all parents are selfish. They will do all they can to keep their child alive. But his selfishness is out of love and protection of her. Marlene didnt give a rat's ass about her. The doctor also has a kid and has no problem sacrificing another child so he can find a cure for his child to live a normal life. That whole world is selfish.You have to be, to survive. They knew how Ellie got that way. they could haver replicated the scenario, but who was going to give up their life and new born child ? if the end justifies the means, why didnt they replicate it
@@tsheporabekane4172 Joel's actions are a consequence of Marlene not giving Ellie a choice first. Marlene's actions are a dead giveaway that they were going to do the procedure on Ellie one way or another. Let's say Ellie had a "change of heart" if she was told about the medical procedure killing her and refused it--I mean, she was all hyped about having a life, "wherever Joel wants" after the procedure, so if she was told she would die, it would have changed her views. Marlene and the Fireflies wouldn't just let her go with the "possible" cure to all this. Things would have played almost the same with Joel going full Terminator on them! Like they said in the movie "21"..."variable change"
Ashley Johnson was so incredible as Anna, Ellie's mom. I know she primarily does voice work, but I hope this leads to more in live action. She has serious chops.
She's had a decent live action career since she was a kid. She was even in The Avengers, although most of her scenes got deleted (you can look them up on TH-cam). She also had a regular role on "Blindspot," which was an NBC prime time show. The only problem is that one took her away too much from Critical Role, and having a 1/8 share in what's becoming its own media empire is probably her best career priority.
Thank you guys for all your Last of Us reactions. Thank you for your positivity and enthusiasm and being open minded. Think about how bad this show could've gone. Sure there are small parts me and gamers miss but overall a spectacular season of television. Thank you again!
In the game, Ellie isn’t the only one that is immune. There were others before her, and the fire flies always failed on the cure. I like how they took that aspect away. Makes it more impactful, when he wants to save her
This series was so great. I don't know if you guys noticed the Laura Bailey cameo at the end. She reprised her nurse character from the game. A blink and you'll miss it cameo next to Dr. Anderson.
Laura also voiced a few other minor roles in the original game (as well as the new main character in Part2.. no names but it is a sublime link between the nurse and new character.) ND and CM both say she may also have a different cameo in Series 2!! CM also said Laura cried on the hospital set it was so emotional for her to see it for real. Laura is one of vocal acting GOATs having been in over 150 games and over 70 anime/animated series. Ana Rice plays the other nurse on the show and both Ana and Laura look alike !!
@@de68a True! Trust me, I know about Laura's character in Part 2. I hope they prepare the actress who will take on that role next season because it could get crazy for them once it airs. Thanks for the behind the scenes about Laura on set, I hadn't heard that. Also, you're right. Ana does look like Laura.
I wonder if Anna would've wanted the child she lied about cutting the umbilical cord before being bitten to keep them from killing her sacrificed in order to make a cure? Not sure she'd feel too great about her best friend trying to kill her kid without even telling her. She should know that even at 14 Ellie was strong enough to hear the truth after everything they'd been through. Marlene didn't "know " Ellie like Joel did. She knew her as an infant and for a few weeks when she had her locked in a room and barely saw her!
Exactly. That's what makes this ending so gray on what's right/wrong. Bottom line is, no one gave Ellie the choice and everyone else was being selfish about it. We can understand why everyone made the decisions they did, but they were selfish. And parents can easily understand why Joel was being selfish after everything he's been through, and they couldn't even give Ellie the dignity to decide for herself. It was like his daughter's death (ironically enough) all over again where they weren't given that choice. All that struggle in the beginning to get to safety, just for her to be taken down by another human who wouldn't give them a chance. It's too many layers for him, where he was just starting to heal and become the person he was before all this, and it was gonna happen all over again.
I think it would’ve been interesting if Marlene had just told Ellie what would likely happen. Of course Ellie would want to save the world. But then Joel does what he did and Ellie knows at the end that he lied to her.
Why did Joel tell Ellie that "they've stopped looking for a cure"? For me, that's just as bad as Marlene not telling Ellie what's going to happen to her...😐
@@tsheporabekane4172 agreed. I'm not saying what Joel did was right but if Marlene was so sure Ellie would make "the right choice" then why didn't she tell her and give her the chance to make that decision instead of omitting,"oh yeah, it'll kill you, by the way"
We are finally at the end! Thank you for the amazing reactions these past weeks Vanessa and Robert ❤ Hopefully you guys will try and check out The Sandman. It's pretty awesome and I think you guys will like it 🤗
If they gave Ellie a choice, the game would have been forgotten very quickly. The ending was so memorable because we, _the players,_ had to struggle with the question of whether and when you can sacrifice a life to save many lives. If Ellie more or less handed us an answer, I think most players would have struggled less with the philosophical issues and just backed whatever Ellie wanted to do. Consent is also a big question in the game, but everyone would have felt less inner turmoil if Ellie made the call. Although, to play Devil's Advocate, Mary Mallon, Typhoid Mary, was locked up and died in quarantine after being a prisoner for 26 years and having medical experiments run on her...and that was all without her consent and *_very much_* against her will. She had the typhoid fever bacteria in her and was able to spread it to others without getting sick. She inadvertantly killed a lot of people. Even decades after she was infected, she could infect others (and she wanted to be released anyway). Should they have honored her wishes and let her go. even knowing that, once set free, more people would die? That's a hard question, why does her consent not matter? I don't know, but for the greater good, I am pretty comfortable denying Mary Mallon's right to consent. In the show, they bombed cities to slow the spread. The mycologist lady recommended killing everyone in Jakarta (9 million people in 2003) and Tess seemed glad they bombed Boston because "they had to do something to slow the spread". How many "Ellies" died for the greater good there? (And safe bet they did not get consent before bombing.) I was much more comfortable bombing Jakarta than I was with performing surgery Ellie. Again, a fascinating ending to the game because you can think about all of these issues. Even a decade later it's still interesting.
Great finale. Marlene's decisions were not thought out or consistent. I totally get that more than likely when Marlene decided to use Tess & Joel to get Ellie west she did not believe them to be the type to get attached she just knew them to be ruthless. However the moment Joel woke up after being taken and he started asking to see Ellie, Marlene either needed to kill Joel immediately, let him see Ellie before they killed her (then blamed unforeseen circumstances with the procedure for her death) or come up with an explanation of what was going on that didn't say she was essentially being sacrificed. The route Marlene chose to go knowing that Joel was someone capable of ruthless & brutal actions was only ever going to end bloody & with a high kill count of Fireflies including her own likely death.
I may be wrong, but I think part of the reason Marlene is so hasty about it is because she's in danger of losing her leadership of the Fireflies. So being able to make a cure quickly is also about her keeping control.
yes, also i feel like if they just be honest and discuss this in front of joel and ellie it would've ended differently.. sure, joel would disagree and protest but if ellie is still adamant on sacrificing her life i think joel would be forced to accept that even if he doesn't want to.. but they didn't and when joel learn everything he was on papa bear mode and the only thing on his mind is saving ellie..
@@mst3KGf it definitely have political factors, it would give them great advantage if they have a cure.. they would probably gain a lot of allies and stuff..
a great episode the woman who plays Ellie's mother she played Ellie in the game that's really cool because in episode 8 we saw the guy who played Joel in the game and now we're seeing the woman who played Ellie in the game
Just finished watching the show then jumped over here first for your reactions. Great series. I also just re-watched Game of Thrones and forgot that Ellie was a lady of the north in that show. She died taking out a giant singlehandedly.
i used to think that they should sit and talk it through when i played the game but when i think about it clearly i figured that it's useless as well because Eillie will decide to do it and Joel will have 2 choices 1.kill everyone there and force Eillie to come with him [basically ending up the same thing] 2. Joel says good bye to Eillie and after that he probably kill himself later because there's nothing left for him [or he decides to go to Tommy] ending like this is probably a good way to show what will happen in the Part 2 so i'm cool with it.
That is such a good point! I thought the same you did, that if they talked it out maybe atleast Joel will have some peace... But the added backstory of how Joel got his scar definitely supports your point. If they did get a chance to say goodbye, and ellie died, he most likely wouldve ended it all. Sarahs deatch changed Joel to a stone cold killer.... Ellie gave him a chance to be a fathet again, if Ellie were to die, Joel would absolutely lose it
I've heard complaints that the hospital portion of the finale was rushed. I've played recently and unless you die a lot it's super short. I think they nailed this show. Lack of infected didn't bother me much. A little more would have been nice, but they're not that important to the story. Just obstacles to give the player stuff to do. I can't wait for season two. Part two is by far my favorite of the two games.
It really is short, especially compared to the David arc right beforehand that is brutally intense. That last arc is mainly just walking and talking, minus the infected during the middle of it, then fight through the hospital, which is run and gun lol. This was easily almost 1:1 to the game.
I've seen that giraffe multiple times. Nabu lives inn the Calgary zoo in Canada. BOUT' TIME SHE WAS RECOGNIZED! She's unreal in person, their Tongue is really weird and uncomfortable though lol But Nabu has quite the reputation Also have a gut feeling that season 2 will be ALL ABOUT Abby. Which I'm here for !
Ellie: So time heals all wounds does it? Joel: It wasn’t time that did it….. 😭😭😭😭😭 I played this game 10 years ago and to this day it is one of the single greatest stories ever told. I remember debating with other gamers for over a year about if Joel made the right decision or not. The question of “You have a chance to save the world but the cost is that you lose the person you love the most in the world after already suffering that pain before”. The answer, the REAL answer, is that both Joel and Marlene made the wrong decision, because that decision should’ve been Ellie’s to make. In the Last Of Us (GAME) podcast Neil Druckman talks about how Joel and Marlene had no right to take that choice away from Ellie. She would’ve said yes, and then Joel would have no choice but to respect her wish. She wanted the deaths of all the people she had lost, Riley, Tess, Henry and Sam, to mean something. Even if it cost her her life. And even though a small part of her knows in her heart that Joel was lying to her she feels that she can’t let herself believe that the only person she loves in the world took away her chance to save the world. Also I love that Ashley Johnson got to play Ellie’s mom Anna. It was a beautiful full circle moment that the woman who plays Ellie in the games played her mother in the show. And it sucks that even though we have to wait a couple more years for season 2, it will be worth the wait! Until then, Endure And Survive!
Greetings from England! Been enjoying your reactions throughout the season, so thanks for that. 👍 A question for you all out there. As someone unfamiliar with the computer game, I wonder if us 'new' viewers had a more shocking experience than those who knew what was coming? I'm emotionally drained! 😃
They were basing the cure on a chance it will work. It wasn’t certain she could save humanity. But they were both wrong on not giving Ellie the choice of making that decision herself. If I had to take a side I’m with Joel, what parent wouldn’t do anything to protect their child. He had to watch Sarah die he sure as hell wasn’t going to lose another daughter.
I mean it's easy to side with Joel when you're simply the viewer or player and live in a different world than theirs. If I was a survivor in any of the QZs or jackson like communities and was offered the slim slim chance of a cure at the cost of one random little girls life that I don't have any personal attachments to .. I mean I would be lying if said I wouldn't side with the doctors.
@@supraaznpride How many in America refused a vaccine for covi, while 250 a day still die from it- 95% non vaccinated? A vaccine in this world is meaningless, when people are the biggest problem, not infected...
I never played the game, so I'm just going by what I saw...They say the "infection" happened very rapidly, within a few days back in 2003, so with a very high number of births around the world each day, I think it's pretty safe to say there were multiple instances of birthing mothers being bitten while getting the umbilical cord cut. There have to be humans 20 years old or younger that have the "cure" or are at least immune like Ellie.
Talk about a morally ambiguous ending. On one hand, I get it. Humanity took away what mattered most to Joel and after finding something that close in Ellie again, he wasn't going to let it happen again. I don't know what it's like to be a a father but I would like that someday and having to put myself in Joel's shoes, I'd probably do the same? Not to mention, the Fireflies weren’t giving her much of a choice in the matter. But then again, neither was Joel. It was still a selflessly selfish choice that not only doomed the entire world but robbed Ellie of whatever hope she had left for it. It might be refreshing to some people, seeing them finally be together in this "new beginning" but keep this in mind: it's all based on a lie.
My first instinct, if given a hypothetical choice between one person and all people, is sacrifice the single person. But then I remember I'm not too fond of people in general. So I might very well let the world burn to save the one person who mattered to me. I don't have kids; I'd be a terrible parent. To me, the parental instinct is just something other people talk about. But I might go on a murder spree to save my wife.
A cure wouldn't save this world. People are too far gone. Groups like the David cult would just kill anyone who said they have a cure. The threat of infected keeps groups in power...
So cool to see Ashley play Anna aka Ellie’s mom, having game Ellie birth her show counterpart is so poetically beautiful to me but in terms of Joel’s decision and actions at the end to me they are completely justified, as a father myself I would’ve done the same to get to either of my daughters especially after what the Fireflies have done in the name of ‘revolution’
what worse is that Joel is also deny the choice Ellie may do. Thats why he lied to Ellie and killed Marlene. He don,t want Ellie to have the choice to leave him.
They never knew they could make a cure. They thought it could. They were willing to kill a 14 year old kid on a thought. Over 20 years how many other times have they said they thought they could make a cure and failed. If ellie was my kid I'd do what joel did, as a parent that's your job, to protect you child at all cost.
Yes but also Ellie has lost so much nd would have done the surgery to try nd save humanity. Joel took that away from her and lied. he meant well but badly executed that. Nd sadly there are consequences
@@fillxxpthe burden is still on them as well for not giving her the choice on a chance. yes it was the best chance they had, but not a guarantee and Ellie deserved to know that. They should have told her. Period. No adult in this first part was in the right. Not one. So yea, there are consequences, and they all sealed their fates with the way the sequence of events went.
I'm not going to lie, if that one 14 year girl is just some random girl I have no personal attachments to and there was even a 1% chance that there could be a cure ... I'm taking it. It's realistically what most will choose to do living in that hellhole of a world. Necessary evil. If it did end up saving the world in the long run nobody multiple generations down will be complaining that their now safer world came at the cost of one innocent girl, lets be real.
@@stevemcgowen Terrorist group? Was Riley a terrorist? Really tho it doesn't matter if no one else in 20 years has come up with a cure human's resolve is too strong to ever give up. We are still trying to cure cancer and find a way for infinite life. People will never stop trying that's why we are still around on earth. Even Ellie foolishly tried to cure Sam by just rubbing her blood on him. It's in our nature. And all it takes is a simple thought that it can work and that's more than enough to take the biggest risk and gamble sometimes. It's risk/reward. If it costs the life of one innocent person for even a slim chance of a cure to something that has nearly ended humanity and still is a massive worldwide problem ... come on now lets be real people are going to pay that price easy.
Cannot wait to see who they’ll cast as Abbie. Also, will season two be immediately be TLOU part two like in the games, or will they create a totally original bridging season that’ll connect parts one and two? Either way, I trust Neil and the rest of the HBO gang with what they’re doing. Fantastic first season.
Ashley Johnson played Ellie in the game and Ellie’s mom in the series and had Ellie’s knife. Marlene is best friends with Ellie’s mom. Giraffe is real. Damn drs and fireflies not telling Ellie she’s not going to survive the procedure. Joel had to lie to Ellie. They went back to Tommy’s town.
TW: MENTAL HEALTH/SA: I was not emotionally prepared for the scene where Joel admitted he failed at taking his own life and he and Ellie cry saying they’re both happy he’s still here. Many people can relate to that unfortunately. I think Joel may have sensed that Ellie was experiencing some depression and told her that to remind her that he’s also been there and that it’ll be okay. While they are hard to watch, I think the show has handled difficult subject matter like mental health/suicide and SA very tastefully. Give Pedro and Bella their Emmys now!
The last 15 mins were exceptionally done , the first 10 were also very good … I loved seeing new storylines in this season I think that’s what they need to do with season 2 but I feel we need to see Abby in season 2 as well
it feels like an admission that he knows what she would have wanted and just couldn't accept it. Honestly the whole ending sequence the dynamic between them felt so wrong. Even with Joel being upbeat discussing Sarah.. the energy between him and Ellie just felt cold and she seemed so uncomfortable. I got the feeling her saying "okay" at the end wasn't her saying she believed him, it was her saying to herself she knows he lied to her. Felt like their whole relationship has been tainted.
The ironic thing is, in the show, there are no airborne spores - so you could argue they don't even need a cure as such. Compared to the game where you can also breath this stuff in. In the show universe, humans basically just need to work together to get on top of Cordyceps, combine their efforts and put aside all this FEDRA/Fireflies/Raiders/etc nonsense. Split each state into sectors and get to work. Either way, there are going to be 10s of millions of infected that can tear humans to shreds that need to be exterminated. A cure might save a few here & there who accidentally get too close and are bit, that's all.
A tough decision for Joel to make, and a philosophical question that has been asked for as long as man can remember. The good of the few or the good of the many? The arguments to let Ellie die are obvious and simple for everyone to see. Her death secures life for everyone else. Ensures no more suffering, ensures nobody else has to die, ensures no more pain and allows the world to return to normal. Now, how can one death compare with all of that? On paper, this is the obvious choice. But the real world isn't written in paper. For one moment, stop and put yourself there. What if potentially saving the world came down to sacrificing an innocent teenager? What if that sacrifice was not even guaranteed to work? Having lost his daughter at the outbreak of the apocalypse, when we meet Joel he is hardened and bitter. By his own admition, he has contemplated suicide at least once. Now pretend you are Joel. You meet this young girl. Over a long, tough time together, you begin to bond with her. You are the one thing to her that she has been missing all her life and she is the same to you. In each other you both finally become whole again after 20 long years of suffering. She makes you smile again, laugh again, she makes your world warmer and brighter. For the first time in two decades, you have a purpose. For the first time in two decades, you don't wake up and go to sleep wishing to die. For the first time in two decades you don't have nightmares about your daughters death, you now dream only of how happy you are gonna make this girl, of how you are going to make her the happiest girl in the world. You finally wake up looking forward to the day, looking forward to making this girl who makes you so happy, happy herself. To protect this girl. That has become your life goal. That is why you were put on this planet. So, you swear to protect her. You swear to succeed Ellie where you failed your own daughter all those years ago. Now here you are. Being asked to sit back whilst she is forced to die for a pipe dream of a cure that may well not even work. In that moment, you have, on one hand, your entire world. The one girl who has become your entire purpose. A sweet girl who has done so much for you and to whom you owe a debt you can never repay, and on the other hand you have shadows. Nameless, faceless people you don't know and never will. People who may, or may not, be better off for the death of that girl who is your world. Now when you put it like that, it's really no choice at all. I can safely say that, in that same position, I would have done exactly what Joel did without a moments hesitation. Its not a rational decision, but it is a decision made with nothing but a deep heart full of love.
Yes, everyone should have asked Ellie but the ending becomes so much worse if that happens (in terms of a story). Then either we get her saying yes and if Joel tries to stop it he becomes the definite bad guy. Or Ellie says no and the Fireflies ignore it, then they go from grey area freedom fighters trying to save the world to complete bad guys. Game 2 only happens if Joel becomes the bad guy but then their relationship is ruined so who know where that story goes at that point. As far as how much Joel would be told leading into this. They only expected him to be taking her to the statehouse in episode 2. No reason to tell him anything else, if they tell him she is infected there is no way he takes her. Also, with Marlene knowing Joel prior to all of this she would also have no reason to believe that he would ever think of Ellie as anything but cargo. Plus at that point there would be no reason to think she would ever see them again unless they returned to Boston. I do question why Marlene and the doctor were at that location. They would have found out about the slaughter at the statehouse and known that they haven't seen Joel and Ellie since so at that point assume the worst. Let alone even imagining that they would make it to where they made it to. I could see the doctor being there from what we heard in episode 2 but Marlene would have no reason to go there once finding out about the slaughter at the statehouse.
see, i think the structure of the second game is what it makes it so compelling. knowing her backstory before she does what she does would soften the impact bc you’re already feeling sympathy for her. it’s so much more interesting and challenging to the player to make you play as the character who just did THAT.
People always say the fireflies shouldve asked Ellie about killing her. Imagine you ask her and she says no. Then what? You let her just walk away? Of course not. It becomes even more traumatic. Marlene seems to have thought about this because she says to Joel that Ellie is asleep and shes not in fear. Marlene has clearly thought about it.
Exactly, they weren't going to give Ellie a choice, which in my opinion justifies Joel because these are Marlene's consequences for not giving Ellie a choice first.
This was a good finale. To me Ashley and Bella look like they could really be mother and daughter so nice casting. The entire cast for the series killed it. I agree that Elle was spacing out during the episode because of what happened in episode 8. You just don't magically get over someone trying to sexually assault you.There was not a mention of a time jump between episode 8 and 9. To be realistic everyone wouldn't do what Joel did, at least not completely. If it was me I wouldn't have killed the doctor just shot him in the leg. The doctor wasn't going to be able to do much without any Fireflies to help him. For all we know he was the only one left that could do that surgery and knows how Elle became immune. That scenario can be potentially replicated by finding someone that was willing to be infected while giving birth. Even in the world today there are people that are willing to sacrifice themselves for the survival of humanity and the people they love. Not saying Joel was good or bad, but he doesn't care about the consequences of his actions and that is what bites him in the butt later with Abby. Stuff like this is the reason why I don't trust people by what they say, but by what they do. The saying actions speak louder than words is very true. The truth is I understand why Joel couldn't sacrifice Elle for the rest of the world. I wouldn't have been able to do that myself with someone I loved, but I also wouldn't do something to doom humanity either. I think he just went too far in certain areas. Anyway enjoyed the episode and reaction. 👍👍✌ out
It's interesting... To play devil's advocate, I think it's possible Joel would allow Ellie to go through with it, and she'd have chosen it too if Marlene had just let Joel say goodbye, let him make sure it's what Ellie wanted... No sense wondering since we know what happened, but Marlene and the Fireflies sure don't know how to treat somebody who just did you a monumental favor, lol
Exactly! Marlene wasn't sure if Ellie would be committed so she didn't give Ellie the choice. Would be all good if Ellie got the chance to tell Joel it's what she wanted
At the end of the day it was a necessary evil to them, the chance of a cure slim or not is too enticing to just let go so it wouldn't matter what Ellie's choice was it had to be done. Trading one life for the possibility of many many others in the future. They just didn't take the necessary evil part to the fullest extent and killed Joel right then and there.
I think im in the minority thinking Part 2 (the game ) is a masterpiece esp on the subjects of empathy and acceptance. I hope 🤞 Naughty Dog does an updated remake of graphics as well as pacing and rework of scenes on Part 2. We’re going to need to wait a while.
Is it really Ellie’s choice though? She doesn’t know she’s sacrificing herself and will not wake up. Mix in the fact that Joel didn’t get to even say goodbye? Yeah no wonder it happened this way.
We see with Sam and with Bill that they cannot live once they lose the person who gave them purpose. Joel could have not continued with life if he had lost Ellie. He had to do what he had to do. I understand it and would probs done the same. Bill said in his letter to Joel god help any mofos who stand in their way and we now saw the brutality he was known for.
Joel had to get what was coming to him. Part two had to be about Ellie and Abby. Part one was Joel's story, if he had been in all of Part two, it would have been about him.
Kinda agree but I also think they needed to rearrange some of leter A gameplay before the event. But the story timeline, not narrative one, was good. Heartbreaking story, rarely told
Neither Joel nor Marlene could afford Ellie the chance to make the decision herself. By rights, she should, but... For Marlene, it's pretty straightforward. The fate of the human race outweighs any one person's life or right to decide. Marlene cannot risk Ellie's refusal. Joel has nothing-*NOTHING*-to live for outside of protecting Ellie. All the reward, all the payment the Fireflies could provide him with, would do nothing to fill the hole her death would leave in him. Joel loves her with the ferocity of a mother bear; he would burn the world to ashes if it would only preserve her. And, in a way.... he did.
I didn't play 1 or 2, so I have no emotional investment either way. I do know the story beats and how both played out, however. I'm also quite aware of how unpopular the second game was with many people for reasons that I won't mention, so it'll be interesting to see how they adapt the second game in season 2.
The choice was never save Ellie or save humanity. It was save Ellie or maybe possibly save humanity...if everything went exactly as the doc was guessing, with zero evidence. Joel did the right thing.
But still, would you sacrifice one person for the CLOSEST thing in 20 years that humanity has at a cure for something that destroyed the world. Even if you say no I think it’s a fair question to ask and it’s not a flaw that they asked it
I mean, thats true. But the thing is that even if thereñ was a 100 percent certainty Joel would have still done the same thing. Thats kind of the point i think
They literally knew why Ellie was immune and the process her body had gone through, to say that they had zero evidence is just ignoring the writing that tells you the cure was possible.
@@Soulxify literally. They have secured base and resources. If they let them recover and talk about it... And if they decided no it's easy to just shoot Joel knock out Ellie and go with the surgery against her wish. But I guess Marlene was enough attached to not want to risk doing it to Ellie like that
The fireflies are not all what they're crack up to be. Fedra' kills a child in the first episode. Fireflies attempt to in the last episode. If killing a child is what it takes to save humanity. Then humanity isn't worth saving. Yes, it's Ellie' choice. But she wasn't in the right headspace to make a good decision. She's still suffering trauma from David. Joel should of taken her back to Tommy's after their encounter with the cannibals. Perhaps having a normal life surrounded by people who could help her heal. Would of been the wise decision. Joel should of killed the nurses. So that no one could point the finger to him. It will cost him.
Just on a superficial level, I think Joel's actions were justified, because we all know damn well if Ellie had a "change of heart" if she was told about the medical procedure killing her and refused it, Marlene and the Fireflies wouldn't just let her go with the "possible" cure to all this. Things would have played almost the same with Joel going full Terminator on them! The fact that Marlene did not ask Ellie or give her a choice is a dead giveaway that Marlene and the Fireflies were going to perform the procedure on Ellie one way or another. Consequences...
Joel screwed himself by lying to Ellie and... taking the choice away from her because he didn't want to lose her. It's just going to take one of those assisting nurses to make their way to Wyoming or spread the word of what happened for Ellie to find out the truth she already suspects.
I don’t think there was a right way to go about it. But hard to see Joel has the good high in this he killed a whole bunch of ppl dedicated to restoring the world. Marlene knows Ellie would have chosen to sacrifice herself so does Joel. He doomed the world for pretty selfish reasons. Also Joel did at least 3ppl slice in that hospital in the show.
Probably not. Marlene's actions was a dead giveaway they were going to perform the procedure one way or another. You think they were going to let the possible cure (because we still don't know if it would have worked) go away nice and dandy? "Ok, Ellie, we understand you don't want to die. Good bye to you and Joel, maybe we can find another person like you in the future"
@@djoscartj that is assuming ellie would say no. ellie would for sure say yes, and with her being conscious and be able to tell and explain to joel that this is what she wanted i think joel would be forced to accept it.. he would protest for sure but ellie would be adamant about her decision and joel wouldn't be able to do something about it...
@@insert_smiley We cannot assume what Ellie would say 100%. It's called "variable change". Ellie assumed she would survive the procedure because she was already making plans for the future with Joel ("We'll go wherever you want")--we know that much. We don't know if her answer would change knowing that, and also knowing the "cure" is not 100% guaranteed; the doctor "thinks" it can work (which it probably does, otherwise the story about saving Ellie at all costs wouldn't make sense).
@@djoscartj she would say yes, like 100%. she have survivor guilt and was still waiting her turn to be infected after riley. and deep inside joel knew she would say yes too, otherwise he wouldn't have lied to her.
How do we know this brain surgery to create a cure was going to work? You're telling me in a post-apocalyptic world where almost everyone dies, that one doctor that survived happened to be both a master of brain surgery and these mushroom people, was able to identify exactly how Ellie is able to survive being infected without running any tests (even if they ran test they wouldn't have results within 1 day)? And they were willing to kill the one person that is immune without trying any other tests first? If Ellie died and the "cure" didn't work (which seems more than likely imo), Ellie would have died for nothing anyway.
Also, I agree that Ellie should get a say. But in the structure of our current non-apocalyptic world, Ellie is a minor, Joel is as close to a legal guardian as a person can get in this situation, and it is arguable that due to her trauma and depression (especially in the days following an event where she is almost eaten by people, violently raped, and butchers a human with a meat cleaver), Ellie lacked the mental capacity needed to give informed consent. I love a morally ambiguous ending.
@@ecotton600 Joels just as mentally broken and damaged, probably more so, than Ellie is. He's a self admitted serial killer with deeply unresolved trauma over Sarah that he's clearly projecting on to Ellie. He's in no place to make this choice even if it was his choice to make.
@@troikas3353 I agree that he's in no state of mind to make that decision either. Nor are the Fireflies, who have also killed, lied to Ellie about the surgery, and are all traumatized by the apocalypse. That's what I love about TLOU, it's a morally ambiguous world that sticks to it's moral ambiguity in every character. I still stand by I really have no faith that this "cure" was going to be successful. Feels closer to a desperate attempt that will kill your one subject than sound science discovered by rigorous scientific method. Which means there is just as much of a chance that the Fireflies would have doomed humanity by killing Ellie (the only immune person) as Joel may have by saving her.
![*The Last of Us* SEASON FINALE KILLED ME😭 [Episode 9] Reaction](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/VgFDJctdz4I/mqdefault.jpg)
The Last of Us 1x9 FULL WATCH-ALONG @ www.patreon.com/posts/79946491
The Little Mermaid Trailer Reaction @ th-cam.com/video/4CnYASYcjJQ/w-d-xo.html
"I used to hate the world and I was happy when everyone died. But I was wrong. Because there was one person worth saving. That's what I did: I saved him. And I protected him. That's why men like you and me are here: We have a job to do. And God help any motherfuckers who stand in our way." -*Bill*
“Well kids die, Henry. They die all the time. You think the whole world revolves around him? That he’s worth everything?" -*Kathleen*
“The only people who can betray us are the ones we trust.” -*Maria*
"Do you trust me?" -*Joel*
Loved all the foreshadowing sprinkled throughout the season!
some of those lines were too on the nose in my opinion, they didn't ruin anything for me but on the Bill letter I was rolling my eyes for how obvious the writers were
Save who you can save.
@@rgg6383 im mean they are obvious to us who already know, so its an easter egg, for those who don't they aren't obvious at all they're pretty generic and natural conversation
@@rintintim1984 oof this one hurts
@@hehaowei5228 yeah.. no. Disagree, watched some reactions where they say "Ellie" and some even think the letter says "Ellie" because they don't even think Frank didn't even knew who Ellie was
So well done! Not gonna lie, seeing Joel slaughter the Fireflies in live action hit much differently....really made me think like it has to catch up with him sooner or later.
It feels dirtier even though the killcount is lower.
I guess that ominous music added to it.
Sucks that the episodes are so short the season came to fast
@@honeyFoxx420 After 3 years of disney plus these all feel great to me lol
#Fuck the fireflies
Ashley Johnson passing the mantle ❤ It's so beautiful and poetic.
I think the issue was also that they were willing to risk killing Ellie on the doctor’s assumption that the procedure would be successful. She said the doctor “thinks” it will work. There had to have been other ways to test before digging into her brain
Hey, new follower here from Puerto Rico. I hope your day is going well.
God bless + take care x2
Fantastic and emotional episode. I like the add when Joel confessed that he tried to kill himself and that he directly says to Ellie that she saved him, had me all teary eyed
I can see them moving things around for the show Vs. the game. It will make more sense to use an episode for a flash back, to explain upcoming motives. As someone who has played the series more times than I care to admit, this show is the BEST adaptation of one form of media to another, in the history of the medium, IMO.
It is so cool to see these shots, seeing downtown Calgary transform into these places, walking by the sets everyday wondering how it was going to turn out.
that thing about flinching when shooting is real, the thing is that it's more common with begginers, this is why when people are learning to shoot a gun its asked to pull the trigger slowly, because it's easy to flinch and miss the target
I totally understand what Joel did. I also totally understand what happens in part 2 as well.
I totally understand part 2, i still hate the way it happens
I love the addition of “he thinks” when Marlene is talking about the doctor, so they don’t even 100% know IF it’ll work. It adds to Joel’s side I feel
i don't think so, even if marlene confirm it 100% Joel would still do the same, that's his daughter now. when sarah died he couldn't do anything to save her and he sure as hell would do everything he can to save ellie
I could have sworn a "he thinks" or a "the doctor thinks" was in the game somewhere, just without so much emphasis so it zips by
@@lkcullen1918 Marlene in the show keeps saying “thinks” as well
@@lkcullen1918 oh oops I misread that lol yeah I feel like if the fireflies were able to make this work everything would have to be perfect and I don’t think it ever could be for them
Marlene said "she understood", but she didnt, cause she never spent time with Ellie, she dropped her off as a baby and let the system raise her. She had zero connection with Ellie, while Joel created a connection, that of a father and a daughter. Telling her that he almost ended his life is letting us know that in no way in hell is he going to go thru all of that again and lose another daughter. They were all dead the moment they made the decision to sacrifice her.
I thought her connection was more for her friend and the promise she made than for Ellie herself.
@@KCohere33 he said "you dont understand" and she said she did. how could she ?. As far as we know she doesnt have kids, and if she did, did she ever experience the loss of a child and what it would mean to lose another ?. failing at a promise u made to your friend so u can save the world its not the same, and she never promised to keep her safe. just that she would take her to someone to raise her and she sent her to FEDRA of al places. Failing at that promise from the beginning. Absolutely NO PARENT would ever pick the world over their child. Their child is their world, Humanity be damned, so she didnt understand.
Joel did the exact same thing he criticised Marlene of doing, which is to not let Ellie decide. That means Joel is a hypocrite...😐 Joel told Ellie "They've stopped looking for a cure".
@@tsheporabekane4172 well of course he is. all parents are selfish. They will do all they can to keep their child alive. But his selfishness is out of love and protection of her. Marlene didnt give a rat's ass about her. The doctor also has a kid and has no problem sacrificing another child so he can find a cure for his child to live a normal life. That whole world is selfish.You have to be, to survive. They knew how Ellie got that way. they could haver replicated the scenario, but who was going to give up their life and new born child ? if the end justifies the means, why didnt they replicate it
@@tsheporabekane4172 Joel's actions are a consequence of Marlene not giving Ellie a choice first. Marlene's actions are a dead giveaway that they were going to do the procedure on Ellie one way or another. Let's say Ellie had a "change of heart" if she was told about the medical procedure killing her and refused it--I mean, she was all hyped about having a life, "wherever Joel wants" after the procedure, so if she was told she would die, it would have changed her views. Marlene and the Fireflies wouldn't just let her go with the "possible" cure to all this. Things would have played almost the same with Joel going full Terminator on them! Like they said in the movie "21"..."variable change"
you guys are the best reaction channel you have a vibe that others don't hope you get 500k soon
Ashley Johnson was so incredible as Anna, Ellie's mom. I know she primarily does voice work, but I hope this leads to more in live action. She has serious chops.
She's had a decent live action career since she was a kid. She was even in The Avengers, although most of her scenes got deleted (you can look them up on TH-cam). She also had a regular role on "Blindspot," which was an NBC prime time show. The only problem is that one took her away too much from Critical Role, and having a 1/8 share in what's becoming its own media empire is probably her best career priority.
Thank you guys for all your Last of Us reactions. Thank you for your positivity and enthusiasm and being open minded. Think about how bad this show could've gone. Sure there are small parts me and gamers miss but overall a spectacular season of television. Thank you again!
In the game, Ellie isn’t the only one that is immune. There were others before her, and the fire flies always failed on the cure. I like how they took that aspect away. Makes it more impactful, when he wants to save her
literally just lying
Trolley problem has entered chat
This series was so great. I don't know if you guys noticed the Laura Bailey cameo at the end. She reprised her nurse character from the game. A blink and you'll miss it cameo next to Dr. Anderson.
I wonder (while being vague) if she is the one/s that greet the people who rush into the room later on.
Laura also voiced a few other minor roles in the original game (as well as the new main character in Part2.. no names but it is a sublime link between the nurse and new character.) ND and CM both say she may also have a different cameo in Series 2!! CM also said Laura cried on the hospital set it was so emotional for her to see it for real.
Laura is one of vocal acting GOATs having been in over 150 games and over 70 anime/animated series.
Ana Rice plays the other nurse on the show and both Ana and Laura look alike !!
@@de68a True! Trust me, I know about Laura's character in Part 2. I hope they prepare the actress who will take on that role next season because it could get crazy for them once it airs. Thanks for the behind the scenes about Laura on set, I hadn't heard that. Also, you're right. Ana does look like Laura.
@@Aussie27Legend Oh yeah, that would be cool and kinda meta. We'll see.
@@GibsonGH
For info too: The hospital scenes were filmed in an abandoned due for demolition hospital in Grande Prairie, Alberta , Canada.
I wonder if Anna would've wanted the child she lied about cutting the umbilical cord before being bitten to keep them from killing her sacrificed in order to make a cure? Not sure she'd feel too great about her best friend trying to kill her kid without even telling her. She should know that even at 14 Ellie was strong enough to hear the truth after everything they'd been through. Marlene didn't "know " Ellie like Joel did. She knew her as an infant and for a few weeks when she had her locked in a room and barely saw her!
Yup
Exactly.
That's what makes this ending so gray on what's right/wrong. Bottom line is, no one gave Ellie the choice and everyone else was being selfish about it. We can understand why everyone made the decisions they did, but they were selfish. And parents can easily understand why Joel was being selfish after everything he's been through, and they couldn't even give Ellie the dignity to decide for herself.
It was like his daughter's death (ironically enough) all over again where they weren't given that choice. All that struggle in the beginning to get to safety, just for her to be taken down by another human who wouldn't give them a chance. It's too many layers for him, where he was just starting to heal and become the person he was before all this, and it was gonna happen all over again.
I think it would’ve been interesting if Marlene had just told Ellie what would likely happen. Of course Ellie would want to save the world. But then Joel does what he did and Ellie knows at the end that he lied to her.
Why did Joel tell Ellie that "they've stopped looking for a cure"? For me, that's just as bad as Marlene not telling Ellie what's going to happen to her...😐
@@tsheporabekane4172 agreed. I'm not saying what Joel did was right but if Marlene was so sure Ellie would make "the right choice" then why didn't she tell her and give her the chance to make that decision instead of omitting,"oh yeah, it'll kill you, by the way"
When you realize you remember the OG Ellie (aka Ellie's mom) as a kid.....feel so old now...
We are finally at the end! Thank you for the amazing reactions these past weeks Vanessa and Robert ❤ Hopefully you guys will try and check out The Sandman. It's pretty awesome and I think you guys will like it 🤗
Appreciate you checking out the reactions. Unfortunately Sandman isn't on our list and won't be anytime soon.
@@LatetotheParty a shame, it's pretty short and very good. Plenty of other good shows out there though.
So trivia! During the operating room scene you can actually see Abby! Well actually her voice actress in the game, she one of the nurses.
That’s amazing!
If they gave Ellie a choice, the game would have been forgotten very quickly. The ending was so memorable because we, _the players,_ had to struggle with the question of whether and when you can sacrifice a life to save many lives. If Ellie more or less handed us an answer, I think most players would have struggled less with the philosophical issues and just backed whatever Ellie wanted to do. Consent is also a big question in the game, but everyone would have felt less inner turmoil if Ellie made the call.
Although, to play Devil's Advocate, Mary Mallon, Typhoid Mary, was locked up and died in quarantine after being a prisoner for 26 years and having medical experiments run on her...and that was all without her consent and *_very much_* against her will. She had the typhoid fever bacteria in her and was able to spread it to others without getting sick. She inadvertantly killed a lot of people. Even decades after she was infected, she could infect others (and she wanted to be released anyway). Should they have honored her wishes and let her go. even knowing that, once set free, more people would die? That's a hard question, why does her consent not matter? I don't know, but for the greater good, I am pretty comfortable denying Mary Mallon's right to consent.
In the show, they bombed cities to slow the spread. The mycologist lady recommended killing everyone in Jakarta (9 million people in 2003) and Tess seemed glad they bombed Boston because "they had to do something to slow the spread". How many "Ellies" died for the greater good there? (And safe bet they did not get consent before bombing.) I was much more comfortable bombing Jakarta than I was with performing surgery Ellie.
Again, a fascinating ending to the game because you can think about all of these issues. Even a decade later it's still interesting.
Great finale. Marlene's decisions were not thought out or consistent. I totally get that more than likely when Marlene decided to use Tess & Joel to get Ellie west she did not believe them to be the type to get attached she just knew them to be ruthless. However the moment Joel woke up after being taken and he started asking to see Ellie, Marlene either needed to kill Joel immediately, let him see Ellie before they killed her (then blamed unforeseen circumstances with the procedure for her death) or come up with an explanation of what was going on that didn't say she was essentially being sacrificed.
The route Marlene chose to go knowing that Joel was someone capable of ruthless & brutal actions was only ever going to end bloody & with a high kill count of Fireflies including her own likely death.
I may be wrong, but I think part of the reason Marlene is so hasty about it is because she's in danger of losing her leadership of the Fireflies. So being able to make a cure quickly is also about her keeping control.
yes, also i feel like if they just be honest and discuss this in front of joel and ellie it would've ended differently.. sure, joel would disagree and protest but if ellie is still adamant on sacrificing her life i think joel would be forced to accept that even if he doesn't want to.. but they didn't and when joel learn everything he was on papa bear mode and the only thing on his mind is saving ellie..
@@mst3KGf it definitely have political factors, it would give them great advantage if they have a cure.. they would probably gain a lot of allies and stuff..
I feel like Joel should've took out the Nurses too if he wanted to keep his secret from coming out.
a great episode the woman who plays Ellie's mother she played Ellie in the game that's really cool because in episode 8 we saw the guy who played Joel in the game and now we're seeing the woman who played Ellie in the game
Retribution surely will be in order
"It wasn't time that did it." 😭
r.i.p. jerry...eesh.
Just finished watching the show then jumped over here first for your reactions. Great series. I also just re-watched Game of Thrones and forgot that Ellie was a lady of the north in that show. She died taking out a giant singlehandedly.
“It’s that Jurassic Park moment.” -Vanessa, 2023
7:04 It was not Ellie at the time it happened, but Tess (remember EP 3 and the fact that they were together already 3 into the apocalyspe)
How cool that Ashley was that little girl from Van Damme’s Lionheart. And she was in The Avengers
i used to think that they should sit and talk it through when i played the game but when i think about it clearly i figured that it's useless as well because Eillie will decide to do it and Joel will have 2 choices 1.kill everyone there and force Eillie to come with him [basically ending up the same thing] 2. Joel says good bye to Eillie and after that he probably kill himself later because there's nothing left for him [or he decides to go to Tommy] ending like this is probably a good way to show what will happen in the Part 2 so i'm cool with it.
That is such a good point! I thought the same you did, that if they talked it out maybe atleast Joel will have some peace...
But the added backstory of how Joel got his scar definitely supports your point. If they did get a chance to say goodbye, and ellie died, he most likely wouldve ended it all.
Sarahs deatch changed Joel to a stone cold killer.... Ellie gave him a chance to be a fathet again, if Ellie were to die, Joel would absolutely lose it
Guys when I tell you I was SCREAMING this episode i don't know if i can make it through s2
I've heard complaints that the hospital portion of the finale was rushed. I've played recently and unless you die a lot it's super short. I think they nailed this show. Lack of infected didn't bother me much. A little more would have been nice, but they're not that important to the story. Just obstacles to give the player stuff to do. I can't wait for season two. Part two is by far my favorite of the two games.
It really is short, especially compared to the David arc right beforehand that is brutally intense. That last arc is mainly just walking and talking, minus the infected during the middle of it, then fight through the hospital, which is run and gun lol. This was easily almost 1:1 to the game.
I've seen that giraffe multiple times. Nabu lives inn the Calgary zoo in Canada.
BOUT' TIME SHE WAS RECOGNIZED! She's unreal in person, their Tongue is really weird and uncomfortable though lol But Nabu has quite the reputation
Also have a gut feeling that season 2 will be ALL ABOUT Abby. Which I'm here for !
Watching that they are in SLC if they had the time they could have climbed up to where the state house and get a great view of the city.
Ellie: So time heals all wounds does it?
Joel: It wasn’t time that did it…..
😭😭😭😭😭
I played this game 10 years ago and to this day it is one of the single greatest stories ever told. I remember debating with other gamers for over a year about if Joel made the right decision or not. The question of “You have a chance to save the world but the cost is that you lose the person you love the most in the world after already suffering that pain before”. The answer, the REAL answer, is that both Joel and Marlene made the wrong decision, because that decision should’ve been Ellie’s to make. In the Last Of Us (GAME) podcast Neil Druckman talks about how Joel and Marlene had no right to take that choice away from Ellie. She would’ve said yes, and then Joel would have no choice but to respect her wish. She wanted the deaths of all the people she had lost, Riley, Tess, Henry and Sam, to mean something. Even if it cost her her life. And even though a small part of her knows in her heart that Joel was lying to her she feels that she can’t let herself believe that the only person she loves in the world took away her chance to save the world.
Also I love that Ashley Johnson got to play Ellie’s mom Anna. It was a beautiful full circle moment that the woman who plays Ellie in the games played her mother in the show. And it sucks that even though we have to wait a couple more years for season 2, it will be worth the wait!
Until then, Endure And Survive!
Alternative universe:
Ellie: fuck Marlene, I Go with Joel
@@19dario73 😂😂
I'm not looking forward to what happens to Joel in the next season. This was a terrific show
Greetings from England! Been enjoying your reactions throughout the season, so thanks for that. 👍
A question for you all out there.
As someone unfamiliar with the computer game, I wonder if us 'new' viewers had a more shocking experience than those who knew what was coming? I'm emotionally drained! 😃
I also liked Part 2 a lot was absolute masterpiece just like the first game.
Heroes sacrifice you for the world but villains will sacrifice the world for you
They were basing the cure on a chance it will work. It wasn’t certain she could save humanity. But they were both wrong on not giving Ellie the choice of making that decision herself.
If I had to take a side I’m with Joel, what parent wouldn’t do anything to protect their child. He had to watch Sarah die he sure as hell wasn’t going to lose another daughter.
I mean it's easy to side with Joel when you're simply the viewer or player and live in a different world than theirs. If I was a survivor in any of the QZs or jackson like communities and was offered the slim slim chance of a cure at the cost of one random little girls life that I don't have any personal attachments to .. I mean I would be lying if said I wouldn't side with the doctors.
@@supraaznpride How many in America refused a vaccine for covi, while 250 a day still die from it- 95% non vaccinated? A vaccine in this world is meaningless, when people are the biggest problem, not infected...
I never played the game, so I'm just going by what I saw...They say the "infection" happened very rapidly, within a few days back in 2003, so with a very high number of births around the world each day, I think it's pretty safe to say there were multiple instances of birthing mothers being bitten while getting the umbilical cord cut. There have to be humans 20 years old or younger that have the "cure" or are at least immune like Ellie.
Talk about a morally ambiguous ending.
On one hand, I get it. Humanity took away what mattered most to Joel and after finding something that close in Ellie again, he wasn't going to let it happen again. I don't know what it's like to be a a father but I would like that someday and having to put myself in Joel's shoes, I'd probably do the same? Not to mention, the Fireflies weren’t giving her much of a choice in the matter.
But then again, neither was Joel. It was still a selflessly selfish choice that not only doomed the entire world but robbed Ellie of whatever hope she had left for it. It might be refreshing to some people, seeing them finally be together in this "new beginning" but keep this in mind: it's all based on a lie.
My first instinct, if given a hypothetical choice between one person and all people, is sacrifice the single person. But then I remember I'm not too fond of people in general. So I might very well let the world burn to save the one person who mattered to me. I don't have kids; I'd be a terrible parent. To me, the parental instinct is just something other people talk about. But I might go on a murder spree to save my wife.
A cure wouldn't save this world. People are too far gone. Groups like the David cult would just kill anyone who said they have a cure. The threat of infected keeps groups in power...
Thanks, Vanessa! Thanks, Robert! 🧟♀ #LateToTheParty #TheLastOfUs #TLOU #TheLastOfUsHBO
And he was A animal doctor also
So cool to see Ashley play Anna aka Ellie’s mom, having game Ellie birth her show counterpart is so poetically beautiful to me but in terms of Joel’s decision and actions at the end to me they are completely justified, as a father myself I would’ve done the same to get to either of my daughters especially after what the Fireflies have done in the name of ‘revolution’
Wow amazing and the show looks good too
what worse is that Joel is also deny the choice Ellie may do. Thats why he lied to Ellie and killed Marlene. He don,t want Ellie to have the choice to leave him.
They never knew they could make a cure. They thought it could. They were willing to kill a 14 year old kid on a thought. Over 20 years how many other times have they said they thought they could make a cure and failed. If ellie was my kid I'd do what joel did, as a parent that's your job, to protect you child at all cost.
Yes but also Ellie has lost so much nd would have done the surgery to try nd save humanity. Joel took that away from her and lied. he meant well but badly executed that. Nd sadly there are consequences
@@fillxxpthe burden is still on them as well for not giving her the choice on a chance. yes it was the best chance they had, but not a guarantee and Ellie deserved to know that. They should have told her. Period. No adult in this first part was in the right. Not one. So yea, there are consequences, and they all sealed their fates with the way the sequence of events went.
I'm not going to lie, if that one 14 year girl is just some random girl I have no personal attachments to and there was even a 1% chance that there could be a cure ... I'm taking it. It's realistically what most will choose to do living in that hellhole of a world. Necessary evil. If it did end up saving the world in the long run nobody multiple generations down will be complaining that their now safer world came at the cost of one innocent girl, lets be real.
Exactly. All the world's governments couldn't make a cure in 20 years, and a terrorist group in a shabby hospital was going to? No chance...
@@stevemcgowen Terrorist group? Was Riley a terrorist?
Really tho it doesn't matter if no one else in 20 years has come up with a cure human's resolve is too strong to ever give up. We are still trying to cure cancer and find a way for infinite life. People will never stop trying that's why we are still around on earth. Even Ellie foolishly tried to cure Sam by just rubbing her blood on him. It's in our nature. And all it takes is a simple thought that it can work and that's more than enough to take the biggest risk and gamble sometimes. It's risk/reward. If it costs the life of one innocent person for even a slim chance of a cure to something that has nearly ended humanity and still is a massive worldwide problem ... come on now lets be real people are going to pay that price easy.
Hello guys. Another sad episode, and a great finale. Now to wait till 2025 for part 2. One of the nurses working on Ellie was play by Laura Bailey.
Cannot wait to see who they’ll cast as Abbie. Also, will season two be immediately be TLOU part two like in the games, or will they create a totally original bridging season that’ll connect parts one and two? Either way, I trust Neil and the rest of the HBO gang with what they’re doing. Fantastic first season.
I hope they bridge and take their time , this season was at its best when it veered off tbh
Apparently one of the other nurses was Laura Fucking Bailey
Vanessa came with the DRIP this episode.
Joel and Marlene have great intention but execute it all wrong. Both took her decision away from her, and will be punished for it.
Each are the villain in eachothers story.
Ashley Johnson played Ellie in the game and Ellie’s mom in the series and had Ellie’s knife. Marlene is best friends with Ellie’s mom. Giraffe is real. Damn drs and fireflies not telling Ellie she’s not going to survive the procedure. Joel had to lie to Ellie. They went back to Tommy’s town.
TW: MENTAL HEALTH/SA:
I was not emotionally prepared for the scene where Joel admitted he failed at taking his own life and he and Ellie cry saying they’re both happy he’s still here. Many people can relate to that unfortunately. I think Joel may have sensed that Ellie was experiencing some depression and told her that to remind her that he’s also been there and that it’ll be okay.
While they are hard to watch, I think the show has handled difficult subject matter like mental health/suicide and SA very tastefully. Give Pedro and Bella their Emmys now!
The last 15 mins were exceptionally done , the first 10 were also very good … I loved seeing new storylines in this season I think that’s what they need to do with season 2 but I feel we need to see Abby in season 2 as well
Joel’s only saving grace was telling Ellie the truth and he missed it. That’s what makes him “wrong”.
it feels like an admission that he knows what she would have wanted and just couldn't accept it. Honestly the whole ending sequence the dynamic between them felt so wrong. Even with Joel being upbeat discussing Sarah.. the energy between him and Ellie just felt cold and she seemed so uncomfortable. I got the feeling her saying "okay" at the end wasn't her saying she believed him, it was her saying to herself she knows he lied to her. Felt like their whole relationship has been tainted.
Marlene pulled a Snape.
The ironic thing is, in the show, there are no airborne spores - so you could argue they don't even need a cure as such. Compared to the game where you can also breath this stuff in.
In the show universe, humans basically just need to work together to get on top of Cordyceps, combine their efforts and put aside all this FEDRA/Fireflies/Raiders/etc nonsense. Split each state into sectors and get to work.
Either way, there are going to be 10s of millions of infected that can tear humans to shreds that need to be exterminated. A cure might save a few here & there who accidentally get too close and are bit, that's all.
A tough decision for Joel to make, and a philosophical question that has been asked for as long as man can remember. The good of the few or the good of the many?
The arguments to let Ellie die are obvious and simple for everyone to see. Her death secures life for everyone else. Ensures no more suffering, ensures nobody else has to die, ensures no more pain and allows the world to return to normal. Now, how can one death compare with all of that? On paper, this is the obvious choice. But the real world isn't written in paper.
For one moment, stop and put yourself there. What if potentially saving the world came down to sacrificing an innocent teenager? What if that sacrifice was not even guaranteed to work?
Having lost his daughter at the outbreak of the apocalypse, when we meet Joel he is hardened and bitter. By his own admition, he has contemplated suicide at least once.
Now pretend you are Joel. You meet this young girl. Over a long, tough time together, you begin to bond with her. You are the one thing to her that she has been missing all her life and she is the same to you.
In each other you both finally become whole again after 20 long years of suffering. She makes you smile again, laugh again, she makes your world warmer and brighter. For the first time in two decades, you have a purpose. For the first time in two decades, you don't wake up and go to sleep wishing to die. For the first time in two decades you don't have nightmares about your daughters death, you now dream only of how happy you are gonna make this girl, of how you are going to make her the happiest girl in the world. You finally wake up looking forward to the day, looking forward to making this girl who makes you so happy, happy herself. To protect this girl. That has become your life goal. That is why you were put on this planet.
So, you swear to protect her. You swear to succeed Ellie where you failed your own daughter all those years ago.
Now here you are. Being asked to sit back whilst she is forced to die for a pipe dream of a cure that may well not even work.
In that moment, you have, on one hand, your entire world. The one girl who has become your entire purpose. A sweet girl who has done so much for you and to whom you owe a debt you can never repay, and on the other hand you have shadows. Nameless, faceless people you don't know and never will. People who may, or may not, be better off for the death of that girl who is your world.
Now when you put it like that, it's really no choice at all. I can safely say that, in that same position, I would have done exactly what Joel did without a moments hesitation. Its not a rational decision, but it is a decision made with nothing but a deep heart full of love.
He left three nurses alive who knew about her.
Yes, everyone should have asked Ellie but the ending becomes so much worse if that happens (in terms of a story). Then either we get her saying yes and if Joel tries to stop it he becomes the definite bad guy. Or Ellie says no and the Fireflies ignore it, then they go from grey area freedom fighters trying to save the world to complete bad guys. Game 2 only happens if Joel becomes the bad guy but then their relationship is ruined so who know where that story goes at that point.
As far as how much Joel would be told leading into this. They only expected him to be taking her to the statehouse in episode 2. No reason to tell him anything else, if they tell him she is infected there is no way he takes her.
Also, with Marlene knowing Joel prior to all of this she would also have no reason to believe that he would ever think of Ellie as anything but cargo. Plus at that point there would be no reason to think she would ever see them again unless they returned to Boston.
I do question why Marlene and the doctor were at that location. They would have found out about the slaughter at the statehouse and known that they haven't seen Joel and Ellie since so at that point assume the worst. Let alone even imagining that they would make it to where they made it to. I could see the doctor being there from what we heard in episode 2 but Marlene would have no reason to go there once finding out about the slaughter at the statehouse.
13:48 I get that. If we had played as "her" first, then we could at least get her back story and understand why she did that "golf club" thing.
see, i think the structure of the second game is what it makes it so compelling. knowing her backstory before she does what she does would soften the impact bc you’re already feeling sympathy for her. it’s so much more interesting and challenging to the player to make you play as the character who just did THAT.
Last of Us pt 1 it out on Steam on the 28th... almost perfect timing...
shame it got hit w/ a last minute delay I think it was meant to be out last week
People always say the fireflies shouldve asked Ellie about killing her. Imagine you ask her and she says no. Then what? You let her just walk away? Of course not. It becomes even more traumatic. Marlene seems to have thought about this because she says to Joel that Ellie is asleep and shes not in fear. Marlene has clearly thought about it.
Exactly, they weren't going to give Ellie a choice, which in my opinion justifies Joel because these are Marlene's consequences for not giving Ellie a choice first.
This was a good finale. To me Ashley and Bella look like they could really be mother and daughter so nice casting. The entire cast for the series killed it. I agree that Elle was spacing out during the episode because of what happened in episode 8. You just don't magically get over someone trying to sexually assault you.There was not a mention of a time jump between episode 8 and 9.
To be realistic everyone wouldn't do what Joel did, at least not completely. If it was me I wouldn't have killed the doctor just shot him in the leg. The doctor wasn't going to be able to do much without any Fireflies to help him. For all we know he was the only one left that could do that surgery and knows how Elle became immune. That scenario can be potentially replicated by finding someone that was willing to be infected while giving birth. Even in the world today there are people that are willing to sacrifice themselves for the survival of humanity and the people they love.
Not saying Joel was good or bad, but he doesn't care about the consequences of his actions and that is what bites him in the butt later with Abby. Stuff like this is the reason why I don't trust people by what they say, but by what they do. The saying actions speak louder than words is very true. The truth is I understand why Joel couldn't sacrifice Elle for the rest of the world. I wouldn't have been able to do that myself with someone I loved, but I also wouldn't do something to doom humanity either. I think he just went too far in certain areas.
Anyway enjoyed the episode and reaction. 👍👍✌ out
Ellie pretty much did choose to become the cure though.
Every reactor on youtube has played the damn game!
Yeah, because it's one of the best games of all time!
It's interesting... To play devil's advocate, I think it's possible Joel would allow Ellie to go through with it, and she'd have chosen it too if Marlene had just let Joel say goodbye, let him make sure it's what Ellie wanted... No sense wondering since we know what happened, but Marlene and the Fireflies sure don't know how to treat somebody who just did you a monumental favor, lol
Exactly! Marlene wasn't sure if Ellie would be committed so she didn't give Ellie the choice. Would be all good if Ellie got the chance to tell Joel it's what she wanted
At the end of the day it was a necessary evil to them, the chance of a cure slim or not is too enticing to just let go so it wouldn't matter what Ellie's choice was it had to be done. Trading one life for the possibility of many many others in the future. They just didn't take the necessary evil part to the fullest extent and killed Joel right then and there.
I think im in the minority thinking Part 2 (the game ) is a masterpiece esp on the subjects of empathy and acceptance.
I hope 🤞 Naughty Dog does an updated remake of graphics as well as pacing and rework of scenes on Part 2. We’re going to need to wait a while.
Not a minority, the others are a loud minority (totally cool if people like 1 over 2 for normal reasons we all know who we are talking about).
I honestly think this pacing was perfect … it def takes an open mind though
Remember in Falcon and the Winter Soldier when John Walker killed one guy, Joel got like 30 bodies 🤷🏿♂️
welp no more queen firelfy. part 2 even more roller coaster.
Is it really Ellie’s choice though? She doesn’t know she’s sacrificing herself and will not wake up. Mix in the fact that Joel didn’t get to even say goodbye? Yeah no wonder it happened this way.
Su voz Joel oh gosh
We see with Sam and with Bill that they cannot live once they lose the person who gave them purpose. Joel could have not continued with life if he had lost Ellie. He had to do what he had to do. I understand it and would probs done the same. Bill said in his letter to Joel god help any mofos who stand in their way and we now saw the brutality he was known for.
What took Fedra 20 years to do. It took Joel but a few minutes.
React the Bhola teaser and trailer 🔥🔥🔥🔥
10:20 it was at that point that Robert knew JOEL FUCKED UP
Joel had to get what was coming to him. Part two had to be about Ellie and Abby. Part one was Joel's story, if he had been in all of Part two, it would have been about him.
Part 2 was layed out perfectly and Neil explains why it was the way it was.
Part 2 is trash and so is Neil.
Kinda agree but I also think they needed to rearrange some of leter A gameplay before the event. But the story timeline, not narrative one, was good. Heartbreaking story, rarely told
@@thanks86 Did you forget to take your meds?
Neither Joel nor Marlene could afford Ellie the chance to make the decision herself. By rights, she should, but...
For Marlene, it's pretty straightforward. The fate of the human race outweighs any one person's life or right to decide. Marlene cannot risk Ellie's refusal.
Joel has nothing-*NOTHING*-to live for outside of protecting Ellie. All the reward, all the payment the Fireflies could provide him with, would do nothing to fill the hole her death would leave in him. Joel loves her with the ferocity of a mother bear; he would burn the world to ashes if it would only preserve her.
And, in a way.... he did.
I didn't play 1 or 2, so I have no emotional investment either way. I do know the story beats and how both played out, however. I'm also quite aware of how unpopular the second game was with many people for reasons that I won't mention, so it'll be interesting to see how they adapt the second game in season 2.
The choice was never save Ellie or save humanity. It was save Ellie or maybe possibly save humanity...if everything went exactly as the doc was guessing, with zero evidence. Joel did the right thing.
But still, would you sacrifice one person for the CLOSEST thing in 20 years that humanity has at a cure for something that destroyed the world. Even if you say no I think it’s a fair question to ask and it’s not a flaw that they asked it
I mean, thats true. But the thing is that even if thereñ was a 100 percent certainty Joel would have still done the same thing. Thats kind of the point i think
@@amaia2346 I agree. That’s why the arguing over whether or not they coulda pulled it off is pointless to me
They literally knew why Ellie was immune and the process her body had gone through, to say that they had zero evidence is just ignoring the writing that tells you the cure was possible.
There is no correct answer, it’s the Trolley Problem it’s a debate that’s existed for many years, long before The Last of Us.
TLOU 2 is on a Shakespearean level … I really hope they take their time with its story , I feel this season was rushed tbh
When he killed Marlene in the game.. I had no luv for him after that...
Ellie is too depressed and traumatized to make an informed consent. Joel did the right thing.
tbf joel is also depressed and traumatized 😭
@@ghazal6018 yeah but she is only 14 years old:( and Joel is 56.
Sure then everyone should give her time to think it through - even if it's years. But no one did the right thing here.
@@Soulxify literally. They have secured base and resources. If they let them recover and talk about it... And if they decided no it's easy to just shoot Joel knock out Ellie and go with the surgery against her wish. But I guess Marlene was enough attached to not want to risk doing it to Ellie like that
The fireflies are not all what they're crack up to be. Fedra' kills a child in the first episode. Fireflies attempt to in the last episode. If killing a child is what it takes to save humanity. Then humanity isn't worth saving. Yes, it's Ellie' choice. But she wasn't in the right headspace to make a good decision. She's still suffering trauma from David. Joel should of taken her back to Tommy's after their encounter with the cannibals. Perhaps having a normal life surrounded by people who could help her heal. Would of been the wise decision. Joel should of killed the nurses. So that no one could point the finger to him. It will cost him.
Just on a superficial level, I think Joel's actions were justified, because we all know damn well if Ellie had a "change of heart" if she was told about the medical procedure killing her and refused it, Marlene and the Fireflies wouldn't just let her go with the "possible" cure to all this. Things would have played almost the same with Joel going full Terminator on them! The fact that Marlene did not ask Ellie or give her a choice is a dead giveaway that Marlene and the Fireflies were going to perform the procedure on Ellie one way or another. Consequences...
Joel screwed himself by lying to Ellie and... taking the choice away from her because he didn't want to lose her. It's just going to take one of those assisting nurses to make their way to Wyoming or spread the word of what happened for Ellie to find out the truth she already suspects.
He didn't want to give Ellie the choice because deep down he knows what she would choose.
I don’t think there was a right way to go about it. But hard to see Joel has the good high in this he killed a whole bunch of ppl dedicated to restoring the world. Marlene knows Ellie would have chosen to sacrifice herself so does Joel. He doomed the world for pretty selfish reasons. Also Joel did at least 3ppl slice in that hospital in the show.
if only they discussed it all in front of ellie and joel i think this would've ended differently
Probably not. Marlene's actions was a dead giveaway they were going to perform the procedure one way or another. You think they were going to let the possible cure (because we still don't know if it would have worked) go away nice and dandy? "Ok, Ellie, we understand you don't want to die. Good bye to you and Joel, maybe we can find another person like you in the future"
@@djoscartj that is assuming ellie would say no. ellie would for sure say yes, and with her being conscious and be able to tell and explain to joel that this is what she wanted i think joel would be forced to accept it.. he would protest for sure but ellie would be adamant about her decision and joel wouldn't be able to do something about it...
@@insert_smiley We cannot assume what Ellie would say 100%. It's called "variable change". Ellie assumed she would survive the procedure because she was already making plans for the future with Joel ("We'll go wherever you want")--we know that much. We don't know if her answer would change knowing that, and also knowing the "cure" is not 100% guaranteed; the doctor "thinks" it can work (which it probably does, otherwise the story about saving Ellie at all costs wouldn't make sense).
@@djoscartj she would say yes, like 100%. she have survivor guilt and was still waiting her turn to be infected after riley. and deep inside joel knew she would say yes too, otherwise he wouldn't have lied to her.
How do we know this brain surgery to create a cure was going to work? You're telling me in a post-apocalyptic world where almost everyone dies, that one doctor that survived happened to be both a master of brain surgery and these mushroom people, was able to identify exactly how Ellie is able to survive being infected without running any tests (even if they ran test they wouldn't have results within 1 day)? And they were willing to kill the one person that is immune without trying any other tests first? If Ellie died and the "cure" didn't work (which seems more than likely imo), Ellie would have died for nothing anyway.
Also, I agree that Ellie should get a say. But in the structure of our current non-apocalyptic world, Ellie is a minor, Joel is as close to a legal guardian as a person can get in this situation, and it is arguable that due to her trauma and depression (especially in the days following an event where she is almost eaten by people, violently raped, and butchers a human with a meat cleaver), Ellie lacked the mental capacity needed to give informed consent. I love a morally ambiguous ending.
@@ecotton600 Joels just as mentally broken and damaged, probably more so, than Ellie is. He's a self admitted serial killer with deeply unresolved trauma over Sarah that he's clearly projecting on to Ellie. He's in no place to make this choice even if it was his choice to make.
@@troikas3353 I agree that he's in no state of mind to make that decision either. Nor are the Fireflies, who have also killed, lied to Ellie about the surgery, and are all traumatized by the apocalypse. That's what I love about TLOU, it's a morally ambiguous world that sticks to it's moral ambiguity in every character. I still stand by I really have no faith that this "cure" was going to be successful. Feels closer to a desperate attempt that will kill your one subject than sound science discovered by rigorous scientific method. Which means there is just as much of a chance that the Fireflies would have doomed humanity by killing Ellie (the only immune person) as Joel may have by saving her.
If I were Joel, I'd definitely do the same...fk humanity lol
Hopefully the write s2 better than tlou 2
Joel is a monster. Can’t believe he did that. Screw the world I guess.
No one can “tell him what he can’t do”