Fantastic video. I’ve been searching for anything that gives direction on grading turquoise fresh from the ground outside of licking every stone! Regardless of the controversy that may arise, it is important for newcomers in the industry to have a resource that isn’t bias to their turquoise. Thank you for this video!
Thank you. I hope viewers grade these stones themselves to become acquainted with the R2 rules and we may see how much variance there is with the grades.
@@turquoiseinamerica3164 absolutely. I think I would probably put more weight on the hardness of the stone and then the color. Just from the point of durability. I like that this is geared towards natural stones and not treated.
This is fascinating. And, as you noted, difficult to do from my armchair with a video. The color is difficult to see. But, you were pretty much in line with my thoughts. Interesting that the color grading is not suppose to take into account the mine. With Bisbee and Royston, I notice certain color preferences and expectations depending on the mine. And, of course, there are fads as which come and go. But, this would be a better standard as a grading model. Thank you so much for posting these videos. I’ve learned so much.
TGR is based upon an absolute measure using R2 rather than a relative measure with consideration for specific mine. Since many mines will never provide the highest grades under a relative system they would receive a handicap like in golf. I think this would create confusion and misrepresent grades. Thanks for your support. Hope you enjoy the books. Part Three in development.
Спасибо, очень люблю ваши лекции о бирюзе, смотрю их с удовольствием. Живу в Крыму, бирюза настоящая встречается у нас очень редко. Обычно имеет общее название,, аризонская", но никто не может о ней что-либо рассказать подробно,а жаль!
The easiest way to test for hardness is by the Mohs scale. Testing consists of using a testing kit for scratching the material. The scale goes from 1 for talc to 10 for diamond and the increase is geometric. Turquoise ranges from 5 to perhaps 6.
In the case of stabilised fine example I consider the method of stabilisation is it only for stability while maintaining the original colour of the stone and matrix? second I consider how interesting the stone itself regarding depth of colour or multi colours and matrix patterns or other things like quartz in the stone or pyrite depends on the mine .
The challenge of grading treated turquoise is that we have an apples and oranges situation compared to natural.When plastic is injected into the stone it not only hardens it but changes the light reflection affecting color. Treated turquoise needs to be graded separate from natural and designated by its particular form of treatment.
Great episode full of information, how about stabilised and grading let’s say from same mine but top grade stabilised versus pure natural but less colour less matrix ?
One glaring limitation of R2 is that it only measures natural turquoise with no treatment. This is a challenge when most of the turquoise in the market is stabilized or has some other form of treatment. Treatment is covered in Chapter 6 of Turquoise in America Part Two 1910-1990. I am hopeful that we may integrate R2 with another grading system designed to grade treated turquoise.
@@turquoiseinamerica3164 thank you for clearing that point which is critical and makes most of the Turqouise in the market that graded as high grade but stabilised for hardness a whole different thing . 👍
I am Iranian, living in Europe and Turquoise is my favorite gemstone and it is also the national gemstone of Iran. I specially like the variation which is blue-green with light brown veins or spots running through it. It is very common in jewelries made in Iran. Unfortunately, I cannot really find any jewelry made with the American Turquoise having the same color. Maybe cause it is graded lower in the western countries and found undesirable.
Persian turquoise,from Iran,comes in different colors and grades. It is most well known for the non matrix sky blue,Ajami. In US turquoise this would match Sleeping Beauty. Turquoise in matrix,Shajari, comes in different forms but at the highest grade often is similar to the highest grade of Bisbee. The newer mines in Kirman Provence often show pyrite and with blue similar to Kingman.
@@turquoiseinamerica3164 wow, thanks a lot for sharing all of that info. I had no idea they even had specific names in Farsi 😊 You are really knowledgeable. So that justifies why I only recently see jewelry with Turquoise from Kerman, because traditionally and till a few years ago you’d only see Neyshabour turquoise. I just looked up the names and what I like the most is exactly the Shajari variety.
I disagree with some of your scoring which reflects the differences in personal preferences for the variable beauty of turquoise. #3 has a better matrix pattern than #4. The rich blue color in #4 is stunning, but limited. I would give #3 a comparable score as #s 4 & 5 given the wonderful contrast between the blue and matrix.
That is inherent with grading involving subjective observation. Ideally there should be multiple graders with the final grade the average. I have found the variance to be less than 5%. If you read the XRF report which tests for both mine identification and grade you will see the high correlation between my TG,using subjective observation, and the test results.
@turquoiseinamerica3164 hi there. Yes. I watched your other follow up video after this one, and you explained it nicely. Agree with your assessment. Good stuff! Btw - any book signings coming up in the future?
That is incorrect. Turquoise is relatively soft measuring between 5-6 on the Mohs scale for hardness. As much as 95% of all turquoise mined does require treatment for use in commercial jewelry but as much as 20% is naturally hard and requires no treatment with the top 5% considered high grade and one of the most rare gems.
@turquoiseinamerica I agree with your assessment as you explained it. But I thought color grading and price was based on what's selling at the gem shows and popular at the time? Or for example I thought #2 stone was more of a sleeping beauty color which people love and is hard to find now that that mine is closed? Thanks!
Price and value are not the same. Price is determined in the market while value is more based upon cost of production. At any point in time an asset may be undervalued or overvalued by market price. Grade is independent of price. High grade turquoise is very undervalued.
Do you think there is merit in understanding what a “classic” look of a mine is and whether the stone falls into that group? Bisbee is an excellent example. I believe the smokey dark blue with brown matrix (stone 4) is a classic look and matches my expectation of a stone from bisbee. I honestly would choose 4 over 5 for that reason.
R2 grades on an absolute basis rather a relative basis meaning grade is independent of mine. As is mentioned some mines may never achieve Gem Grade but High Grade will be the best from that particular mine.Determining the classic look for any mine is subjective and will vary by opinion. There are different options about what defines Smokey Bisbee.With regard to the grade of stone four I mentioned that it could easily be graded as Gem Grade as is stone 5. What grade would you give 4? That is why it is important to have several eyes on the stone to see what the variance of grade may be. Finally grading from a photo will not be as accurate as grading the stone itself but that is a limitation we accept for this exercise. Thanks for your input.
Fantastic video. I’ve been searching for anything that gives direction on grading turquoise fresh from the ground outside of licking every stone! Regardless of the controversy that may arise, it is important for newcomers in the industry to have a resource that isn’t bias to their turquoise.
Thank you for this video!
Thank you. I hope viewers grade these stones themselves to become acquainted with the R2 rules and we may see how much variance there is with the grades.
@@turquoiseinamerica3164 absolutely. I think I would probably put more weight on the hardness of the stone and then the color. Just from the point of durability. I like that this is geared towards natural stones and not treated.
This is fascinating. And, as you noted, difficult to do from my armchair with a video. The color is difficult to see. But, you were pretty much in line with my thoughts. Interesting that the color grading is not suppose to take into account the mine. With Bisbee and Royston, I notice certain color preferences and expectations depending on the mine. And, of course, there are fads as which come and go. But, this would be a better standard as a grading model. Thank you so much for posting these videos. I’ve learned so much.
TGR is based upon an absolute measure using R2 rather than a relative measure with consideration for specific mine. Since many mines will never provide the highest grades under a relative system they would receive a handicap like in golf. I think this would create confusion and misrepresent grades. Thanks for your support. Hope you enjoy the books. Part Three in development.
So much to learn on your channel, this is absolutely amazing. Thank you very much for sharing your knowledge like this. This is priceless ❤
Lots more to learn in the books Turquoise in America Parts 1-3
The best technical advice I have seen. Really good.
Thank you. It has been a challenge in developing a turquoise grading method.
Спасибо, очень люблю ваши лекции о бирюзе, смотрю их с удовольствием. Живу в Крыму, бирюза настоящая встречается у нас очень редко. Обычно имеет общее название,, аризонская", но никто не может о ней что-либо рассказать подробно,а жаль!
How can,I,get you a very rare piece
a very good lesson, I agree with what is taught. greetings and blessing from Indonesia..
Thank you. The books are now available as ebooks for international purchase.
Thank you from Germany ❤❤❤
So glad you enjoy.
How do you determine hardness /density?
The easiest way to test for hardness is by the Mohs scale. Testing consists of using a testing kit for scratching the material. The scale goes from 1 for talc to 10 for diamond and the increase is geometric. Turquoise ranges from 5 to perhaps 6.
In the case of stabilised fine example I consider the method of stabilisation is it only for stability while maintaining the original colour of the stone and matrix? second I consider how interesting the stone itself regarding depth of colour or multi colours and matrix patterns or other things like quartz in the stone or pyrite depends on the mine .
The challenge of grading treated turquoise is that we have an apples and oranges situation compared to natural.When plastic is injected into the stone it not only hardens it but changes the light reflection affecting color. Treated turquoise needs to be graded separate from natural and designated by its particular form of treatment.
Great episode full of information, how about stabilised and grading let’s say from same mine but top grade stabilised versus pure natural but less colour less matrix ?
One glaring limitation of R2 is that it only measures natural turquoise with no treatment. This is a challenge when most of the turquoise in the market is stabilized or has some other form of treatment. Treatment is covered in Chapter 6 of Turquoise in America Part Two 1910-1990. I am hopeful that we may integrate R2 with another grading system designed to grade treated turquoise.
@@turquoiseinamerica3164 thank you for clearing that point which is critical and makes most of the Turqouise in the market that graded as high grade but stabilised for hardness a whole different thing . 👍
Minh có một dây chuyền màu số 2 của bạn? Ko biết giá trị bao nhiêu tiền?
I am Iranian, living in Europe and Turquoise is my favorite gemstone and it is also the national gemstone of Iran. I specially like the variation which is blue-green with light brown veins or spots running through it. It is very common in jewelries made in Iran. Unfortunately, I cannot really find any jewelry made with the American Turquoise having the same color. Maybe cause it is graded lower in the western countries and found undesirable.
Persian turquoise,from Iran,comes in different colors and grades. It is most well known for the non matrix sky blue,Ajami. In US turquoise this would match Sleeping Beauty.
Turquoise in matrix,Shajari, comes in different forms but at the highest grade often is similar to the highest grade of Bisbee. The newer mines in Kirman Provence often show pyrite and with blue similar to Kingman.
@@turquoiseinamerica3164 wow, thanks a lot for sharing all of that info. I had no idea they even had specific names in Farsi 😊 You are really knowledgeable. So that justifies why I only recently see jewelry with Turquoise from Kerman, because traditionally and till a few years ago you’d only see Neyshabour turquoise. I just looked up the names and what I like the most is exactly the Shajari variety.
@@ChadieRahimian The copper mines in Kirman produce turquoise. Most of it is soft and requires treatment.
What's up with BROWN matix?
Thank's Sir nice video 👍👌👍👌👍👌👍👌🙏🇮🇳🙂 India
I disagree with some of your scoring which reflects the differences in personal preferences for the variable beauty of turquoise. #3 has a better matrix pattern than #4. The rich blue color in #4 is stunning, but limited. I would give #3 a comparable score as #s 4 & 5 given the wonderful contrast between the blue and matrix.
That is inherent with grading involving subjective observation. Ideally there should be multiple graders with the final grade the average. I have found the variance to be less than 5%.
If you read the XRF report which tests for both mine identification and grade you will see the high correlation between my TG,using subjective observation, and the test results.
@turquoiseinamerica3164 hi there. Yes. I watched your other follow up video after this one, and you explained it nicely. Agree with your assessment. Good stuff! Btw - any book signings coming up in the future?
@@LKellyKain No more signings. Signed books are available on the website.
Because turquoise is really a powder and has to be stabilized thereby making it impossible to put on a grading system.
That is incorrect. Turquoise is relatively soft measuring between 5-6 on the Mohs scale for hardness. As much as 95% of all turquoise mined does require treatment for use in commercial jewelry but as much as 20% is naturally hard and requires no treatment with the top 5% considered high grade and one of the most rare gems.
Video was dragging let’s get to the point. Was the reason for my thumbs down. I love being educated but let’s get to the point and be efficient
Can’t please everyone.
@turquoiseinamerica I agree with your assessment as you explained it. But I thought color grading and price was based on what's selling at the gem shows and popular at the time? Or for example I thought #2 stone was more of a sleeping beauty color which people love and is hard to find now that that mine is closed? Thanks!
Price and value are not the same. Price is determined in the market while value is more based upon cost of production. At any point in time an asset may be undervalued or overvalued by market price. Grade is independent of price. High grade turquoise is very undervalued.
Agreed,I love sleeping turquoise👍
Do you think there is merit in understanding what a “classic” look of a mine is and whether the stone falls into that group? Bisbee is an excellent example. I believe the smokey dark blue with brown matrix (stone 4) is a classic look and matches my expectation of a stone from bisbee. I honestly would choose 4 over 5 for that reason.
R2 grades on an absolute basis rather a relative basis meaning grade is independent of mine. As is mentioned some mines may never achieve Gem Grade but High Grade will be the best from that particular mine.Determining the classic look for any mine is subjective and will vary by opinion. There are different options about what defines Smokey Bisbee.With regard to the grade of stone four I mentioned that it could easily be graded as Gem Grade as is stone 5. What grade would you give 4? That is why it is important to have several eyes on the stone to see what the variance of grade may be. Finally grading from a photo will not be as accurate as grading the stone itself but that is a limitation we accept for this exercise. Thanks for your input.
Myself, i like 2 - 4.
Grading has the challenge of subjective bias; beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.
Thank you Mike, very infomative.
You are welcome
are those stabilized?
No
How to contact with you
Through the website turquoiseinamerica.com . Email info@turquoiseinamerica.com