It saddens me that people in the comments here reject this material out of hand as "satanic," relativistic, or pagan. As another commenter mentioned, Christians throughout the ages have practiced the spiritual disciplines as a way to grow in Christian virtue and better reflect the image of Christ. Breath prayers, for example, have been practiced by pious, faithful Christians in the Eastern Orthodox tradition for centuries, "Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me, a sinner." It is, at the very least, unwise to so quickly dismiss a tradition practiced by what amounts to a third of the Christians in the world. Furthermore--it is astonishing to me that you would call such a prayer, repeated throughout the day to orient the worshipper's whole being towards the Lord Jesus to receive mercy from him, pagan. A prayer--no less--that comes from the Bible! In my estimation, this is excellent curriculum that can enrich the spiritual lives of contemporary Christians by bringing them into an encounter with Jesus through the Bible and prayer.
+Wil Rogan Hi Will, there is a very good reason why this approach has been rejected by Christians posting on here. You mention the Eastern Orthodox church. This is, at best, a dead church with empty traditions. Eastern Orthodox Christians are nominal only, not born again, therefore their repetitive prayer, "God have mercy upon me" does not proceed from faith, but from emptiness. A born-again Christian does not need to plea for mercy, as mercy has already been shown by Christ to that sinner, and received by him when he believed. The faith of a true convert is a true faith, based on what Jesus Christ has already accomplished on the cross. There are SO many wolves around today; I would say the majority of church leaders are leading their flock astray in some way, and nearly all high profile leaders are false teachers. This teaching is clearly New Age. A glance at the Transforming Centre website (her HQ) will convince you that this is not the direction a church should be going in. Her influences comprise a 'who's who' of dodgy characters. The fact that she is a woman, yet takes authority over men is disobedience to scripture, for a start. 'The Transforming Church' sounds to me like the next step along from 'The Emerging Church'.
Anyone who can dismiss an entire, ancient stream of Christ's Church, out of hand, knowing nothing about it, but willing to completely discard it, cannot be be a Christ-centered Christian.
No Jan, a Christ-centered Christian is a mature Christian who has trained himself to distinguish good from evil by feeding on solid food (Hebrews 5:14). He can tell at a glance by certain unmistakable traits or clues that something is false, therefore he CAN dismiss an 'entire stream' of whatever (I deny that this New-Age nonsense has anything to do with CHRIST'S Church), out of hand, and he is not only willing to completely discard it, he MUST completely discard it because we are to "have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them" (Eph 5:11)
Where in the Bible does it say to sit with our feet on the ground, uncrossed legs, and concentrate on our breathing? When the disciples asked Jesus to teach them to pray he responded with when you pray " say". He did not tell them to concentrate on their breathing . you tell us in the introduction that the keyword here is experience . That was my first alarm bell with this teaching .
That is the first time I saw someone take a stance against breathing. I have seen people consider many things evil. But breathing; this is unchartered territory.
Well it is not written anywhere that we should close our eyes, band our heads and join hands together… does it make it evil? Should we stop using phones because the Bible doesn’t talk about phone? I mean the Bible gives us guiding principles and then, the rest is left to discernment, which the Holy Spirit can provide when asked. I find disturbing all the finger wagging for every little details … so now we’re not allowed to breath while praying?!?!!!
The Bible speaks of meditating on Gods' Word and deeds, using your mind in a way of examination and reflection. We are not to adopt sensual ritual practices in order to "see what God is telling us". That's a different kind of meditation- one that is not in the Bible, therefore not real meditation. We are to be transformed by the renewing of our minds in faith in Christ alone, not by engaging the flesh that leads to death. I am surprised that Zondervan is pushing this stuff, but this may be nothing new for them. Be wise as serpents and live according to the Word of the LORD.
Spiritual disciplines are based on esoteric monastic teachings that are no supported in scripture. I started looking into this in the 1990s and read books advocating it. Whether other Christians in the past did it or not is not the standard for what we should do. God's word should support this but it doesn't. The Bible models verbal prayer in numerous cases. Jesus taught his disciples a prayer that is the pattern for prayer. We should not go within and we don't need to look into "our deeper longings" and "name them." I've listened to Barton giving this message in a church which totally takes away the meaning of the passage. There is nothing in the text to support her statements such as the blind man getting in touch with his deepest desires and the crowd being "uncomfortable" for the reasons she gives. She switches it so that it supports her ideas about being vulnerable and "healthy and whole" and other contemporary concepts, which are not based on Scripture. In actuality, this passage affirms Jesus as the Messiah, not just because he healed the blind man but because no blind person is healed in the Old Testament and there are passages prophesying that the Messiah would make the blind see. The passage showcases Jesus as the prophesied Messiah, not the blind man. Although some things can be said about the blind man, there is very little about him in the passage. Barton reads a lot of her ideas into the passage. Barton was trained at the Interfaith and I believe, Perenniailst, Shalem Institute.
This is Not Biblically sound. it is opening yourself up to a different spirit if you practice this well known practice among pagans and the Mystics of the Roman Catholic church - who learned these things from pagans.
"Breath prayers" are vain repetition, as the heathens (pagans) do. See also Deuteronomy 18:9-12 and 2 Corinthians 11:1-4 in your king james Bible. What you are "conjuring" is not the real Jesus Christ the Son of the Living God... but "another jesus," via another spirit. Rooted in another gospel.
![ILLSLICK - KILLSHOT REMIX [FULL VERSION]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/RIK8RrqIAzE/mqdefault.jpg)
Thank you, Dr. Barton, for calling us to ancient, Christian practices that lead us to being and living more like Jesus.
Amen
It saddens me that people in the comments here reject this material out of hand as "satanic," relativistic, or pagan. As another commenter mentioned, Christians throughout the ages have practiced the spiritual disciplines as a way to grow in Christian virtue and better reflect the image of Christ. Breath prayers, for example, have been practiced by pious, faithful Christians in the Eastern Orthodox tradition for centuries, "Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me, a sinner." It is, at the very least, unwise to so quickly dismiss a tradition practiced by what amounts to a third of the Christians in the world. Furthermore--it is astonishing to me that you would call such a prayer, repeated throughout the day to orient the worshipper's whole being towards the Lord Jesus to receive mercy from him, pagan. A prayer--no less--that comes from the Bible!
In my estimation, this is excellent curriculum that can enrich the spiritual lives of contemporary Christians by bringing them into an encounter with Jesus through the Bible and prayer.
+Wil Rogan Hi Will, there is a very good reason why this approach has been rejected by Christians posting on here. You mention the Eastern Orthodox church. This is, at best, a dead church with empty traditions. Eastern Orthodox Christians are nominal only, not born again, therefore their repetitive prayer, "God have mercy upon me" does not proceed from faith, but from emptiness. A born-again Christian does not need to plea for mercy, as mercy has already been shown by Christ to that sinner, and received by him when he believed. The faith of a true convert is a true faith, based on what Jesus Christ has already accomplished on the cross. There are SO many wolves around today; I would say the majority of church leaders are leading their flock astray in some way, and nearly all high profile leaders are false teachers. This teaching is clearly New Age. A glance at the Transforming Centre website (her HQ) will convince you that this is not the direction a church should be going in. Her influences comprise a 'who's who' of dodgy characters. The fact that she is a woman, yet takes authority over men is disobedience to scripture, for a start. 'The Transforming Church' sounds to me like the next step along from 'The Emerging Church'.
Anyone who can dismiss an entire, ancient stream of Christ's Church, out of hand, knowing nothing about it, but willing to completely discard it, cannot be be a Christ-centered Christian.
No Jan, a Christ-centered Christian is a mature Christian who has trained himself to distinguish good from evil by feeding on solid food (Hebrews 5:14). He can tell at a glance by certain unmistakable traits or clues that something is false, therefore he CAN dismiss an 'entire stream' of whatever (I deny that this New-Age nonsense has anything to do with CHRIST'S Church), out of hand, and he is not only willing to completely discard it, he MUST completely discard it because we are to "have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them" (Eph 5:11)
Where in the Bible does it say to sit with our feet on the ground, uncrossed legs, and concentrate on our breathing? When the disciples asked Jesus to teach them to pray he responded with when you pray " say". He did not tell them to concentrate on their breathing . you tell us in the introduction that the keyword here is experience . That was my first alarm bell with this teaching .
🙄
That is the first time I saw someone take a stance against breathing. I have seen people consider many things evil. But breathing; this is unchartered territory.
Well it is not written anywhere that we should close our eyes, band our heads and join hands together… does it make it evil?
Should we stop using phones because the Bible doesn’t talk about phone?
I mean the Bible gives us guiding principles and then, the rest is left to discernment, which the Holy Spirit can provide when asked.
I find disturbing all the finger wagging for every little details … so now we’re not allowed to breath while praying?!?!!!
This stuff is so good... :)
The Bible speaks of meditating on Gods' Word and deeds, using your mind in a way of examination and reflection. We are not to adopt sensual ritual practices in order to "see what God is telling us". That's a different kind of meditation- one that is not in the Bible, therefore not real meditation. We are to be transformed by the renewing of our minds in faith in Christ alone, not by engaging the flesh that leads to death. I am surprised that Zondervan is pushing this stuff, but this may be nothing new for them. Be wise as serpents and live according to the Word of the LORD.
Spiritual disciplines are based on esoteric monastic teachings that are no supported in scripture. I started looking into this in the 1990s and read books advocating it. Whether other Christians in the past did it or not is not the standard for what we should do. God's word should support this but it doesn't. The Bible models verbal prayer in numerous cases. Jesus taught his disciples a prayer that is the pattern for prayer. We should not go within and we don't need to look into "our deeper longings" and "name them."
I've listened to Barton giving this message in a church which totally takes away the meaning of the passage. There is nothing in the text to support her statements such as the blind man getting in touch with his deepest desires and the crowd being "uncomfortable" for the reasons she gives. She switches it so that it supports her ideas about being vulnerable and "healthy and whole" and other contemporary concepts, which are not based on Scripture.
In actuality, this passage affirms Jesus as the Messiah, not just because he healed the blind man but because no blind person is healed in the Old Testament and there are passages prophesying that the Messiah would make the blind see. The passage showcases Jesus as the prophesied Messiah, not the blind man. Although some things can be said about the blind man, there is very little about him in the passage. Barton reads a lot of her ideas into the passage. Barton was trained at the Interfaith and I believe, Perenniailst, Shalem Institute.
Yes. Her teaching is a dangerous New Age approach delivered falsely as Christian practice.
This is Not Biblically sound. it is opening yourself up to a different spirit if you practice this well known practice among pagans and the Mystics of the Roman Catholic church - who learned these things from pagans.
There is affiliation with Willow Creek, so...
So what?
Definitely not scriptural.
"Breath prayers" are vain repetition, as the heathens (pagans) do.
See also Deuteronomy 18:9-12 and 2 Corinthians 11:1-4 in your king james Bible.
What you are "conjuring" is not the real Jesus Christ the Son of the Living God... but "another jesus," via another spirit. Rooted in another gospel.