Improving the ground plane always helps. Ocean water is supreme.Higher angle radiation is equally important with DX. There IS a s unit gain compared with your secondary antenna, some may think its compared to ALL antennas. Victory is above winning though, that belongs to you. Congratulations 👏
Ever since your last video on this vertical, I bought the fiberglass Kit from HF, and have been thinking about the Logistics of this antenna. My build will be hanging from a tall tree limb instead of using my Jackite Fiberglass pole for support. Thank you for breaking down and sharing your construction methods. I will be able to compare it to a 10 meter J-pole that doesn't have doesn't have any radials. The J-pole is doing pretty well, but lately I have been seeing a lot of info on the benefits of elevated verticals with radials. After seeing your video adding the hoop. I decided to give it a try. Thank you for the idea. Waiting for a break in the weather. 73 K1QS
I used a Jackite pole for a dedicated 10m wire antenna. Worked great - until heavy local winds popped the wire out of the 'loop' at the top of the pole. I COULD NOT get some of the pole sections to collapse. I used hose clamps to keep the pole from collapsing early on. Now they won't collapse, period. Long story, but I finally got everything repaired and I'm back on the air. Meantime, I bought a 12m Spiderbeam for my next antenna experiment.
@@MrTommy001I’m pretty happy with the spiderbeam so far. One thing that I have found is that on calm days the clamps are not necessary. But if the wind is really whipping it around I usually need the clamps. For a more long term solution though I could probably use some of that rubber self sealing tape and it might work and keep the joints waterproof too. The pole itself is heavy duty though and I like it. Thanks for watching.
Used the Astroplane antenna why back when ... been thinking about setting up a 10 meter RMS station and this peaks my interest even more. Thanks for posting.
@@josephmccormick6602 you bet. I’m just always trying something new to squeeze as much as I can out of what I have keeping it as simple as possible. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn’t, but if we don’t try we’ll never know. 73!
Exactly, thanks for watching and commenting. the greatest benefit from this is the relative lack of common mode current to deal with. I also fooled around with a T2LT but in my case this one has worked better than some others. Thanks for sharing.
Cool!! I attached my 8ft radials to rope guys with a similar setup on a fiberglass pole so that the radials/guys would also help to stabilize the antenna. I'm really happy with its performance but I would like to get rid of the guys. You provided a great solution. I wonder how your results would differ with copper wire taped to the hoop so that the hoop becomes part of the ground plane? Have you tried it? My antenna does 4k miles very well hitting Europe from the east coast but can't hear local OPs. Have you noticed this? I've been told it's because of the takeoff angle.
@@RickPaquinGlad you liked the video and it helped out. In this instance I have not tried copper wire for the hoop but I believe it wouldn’t work because it would throw off the resonant frequency. Reason I say this is I tried it on a 2 meter antenna and that is what happened. As far as not hearing locals I’ve experienced the same thing. Either they are horizontally polarized or are just too close. They almost have to be 300 to 400 miles away at least for me to hear them. But I can hit Japan and New Zealand with 100 watt’s when the band is cooperating. LOL! Thanks for watching.
Thanks for watching and commenting. If you use the models you are referring to and compare a ground mounted 1/4 wave vertical with 16 radials at 5 degrees off the horizon (where you will see a -6db) to a 1/4 wave vertical fed at 9.5 meters above ground level with 4 vertical’s at 5 degrees off the horizon (where the model shows +.5 db) that is over +6 db improvement. Run your models and see. I didn’t believe the models at all but if you take the time to look at my previous video you will see that the models you are referring to (which I believed not accurate) are correct. The changes are due to having an elevated vertical as opposed to a ground mounted vertical. Just proving the point of the value of elevated over ground mounted. The DX improvement is there. 73.
@@yqtszhj Oh come on ... that's comparing apples to bananas. Any antenna will perform differently depending upon it's position relative to RF ground. If that's your point OK, but ANY configuration of a vertical antenna will do the same. You're just changing the elevation angle of the main lobe ... you aren't producing gain. Useful of course, but certainly misleading.
I am a ham for 40-45 years and old antennas from early 1900 reinvents with great antenna gain A 1/4 wave antenna is 0dB Looks to me all those inventions of the last 10 years are novice amateurs they Never looking in a antenna handbook , they the having trouble try to solder ,probably buying cables with the connectors already on it , but they are really good with there iPhone , Sorry for this rant
Then as I’m sure you know most all antennas provide no gain in themselves but change the radiation pattern to accomplish the task desired. There is no free lunch. In this case the point is that an elevated 1/4 wave vertical at 10 meters provides a better low angle radiation pattern (theoretically) relative to a ground mounted vertical and is theoretically more efficient for the purpose of DXing and reception. Have a great day!
Great video, and as both you and I have found, where possible all verticals should be elevated for best performance. Some actually extend the radials with string chord, acting as guy lines to a fence or the ground. Fantastic ant, and makes me wonder why, four square ant are made on the ground. 73 zl3xdj
@@briansummers3488 I actually have a cut half wave and it doesn’t work quite as well but there is the advantage that you can put a 49:1 or 64:1 transformer on it and not have to use radials. A 3/4 wave works pretty well too but you can’t get it quite as high with my current setup and it seems the radiation pattern doesn’t beat the 1/4 wave at 10 meters. I just try to get as much wire as high as I can get it. Thanks for watching!
@@rolnas21 I agree. Thanks for watching and commenting. Kinda throws off what should be a standard. Greater gain of 2 solid S-units was observed in the previous video.
dB is meaningless, you must provide a second reference, theus dBi, dBd, etc... Anything that gets rid of radials on the ground is useful, but a vertical dipole is less work and cost than this solution.
Agree, you have to have a reference which many don’t understand. The reference in this instance is 5 degrees off the horizon for ground mounted vs 5 degrees off the horizon mounted at 10 meters. The first video shows this reference. Thanks for watching and commenting.
It's like a Starduster Antenna, connected to a loop, What a brilliant groundplane. Well done indeed 👍👍😀
Thanks for watching and commenting.
You're most welcome 👍
Awesome, inexpensive materials. Good idea.
Improving the ground plane always helps. Ocean water is supreme.Higher angle radiation is equally important with DX. There IS a s unit gain compared with your secondary antenna, some may think its compared to ALL antennas. Victory is above winning though, that belongs to you. Congratulations 👏
Thank you sir.
Ever since your last video on this vertical, I bought the fiberglass Kit from HF, and have been thinking about the Logistics of this antenna. My build will be hanging from a tall tree limb instead of using my Jackite Fiberglass pole for support. Thank you for breaking down and sharing your construction methods. I will be able to compare it to a 10 meter J-pole that doesn't have doesn't have any radials. The J-pole is doing pretty well, but lately I have been seeing a lot of info on the benefits of elevated verticals with radials. After seeing your video adding the hoop. I decided to give it a try. Thank you for the idea. Waiting for a break in the weather. 73 K1QS
Nice. Share your results if you don’t mind. I’ve been thinking about a j-pole and recently tried a T2LT that I’ll post about maybe next week. 73
I used a Jackite pole for a dedicated 10m wire antenna. Worked great - until heavy local winds popped the wire out of the 'loop' at the top of the pole. I COULD NOT get some of the pole sections to collapse. I used hose clamps to keep the pole from collapsing early on. Now they won't collapse, period. Long story, but I finally got everything repaired and I'm back on the air. Meantime, I bought a 12m Spiderbeam for my next antenna experiment.
@@MrTommy001I’m pretty happy with the spiderbeam so far. One thing that I have found is that on calm days the clamps are not necessary. But if the wind is really whipping it around I usually need the clamps. For a more long term solution though I could probably use some of that rubber self sealing tape and it might work and keep the joints waterproof too. The pole itself is heavy duty though and I like it. Thanks for watching.
@ Two of my other antennas are sitting atop Harbor Freight aluminum flag poles. But those are definitely permanent.
This reminds me of the Astroplane antenna. Great job sir.
Thanks for watching and commenting!
Used the Astroplane antenna why back when ... been thinking about setting up a 10 meter RMS station and this peaks my interest even more. Thanks for posting.
@@josephmccormick6602 you bet. I’m just always trying something new to squeeze as much as I can out of what I have keeping it as simple as possible. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn’t, but if we don’t try we’ll never know. 73!
This is a basically a discone antenna, a vertically polarized dipole if you will.
Exactly, thanks for watching and commenting. the greatest benefit from this is the relative lack of common mode current to deal with. I also fooled around with a T2LT but in my case this one has worked better than some others. Thanks for sharing.
More like 2dBi not 6dBd (would need additional radiators and reflectors for that)
It’s a 1/4 wave ground plane how do you think it’s got 6db gain?
Cool!! I attached my 8ft radials to rope guys with a similar setup on a fiberglass pole so that the radials/guys would also help to stabilize the antenna. I'm really happy with its performance but I would like to get rid of the guys. You provided a great solution. I wonder how your results would differ with copper wire taped to the hoop so that the hoop becomes part of the ground plane? Have you tried it?
My antenna does 4k miles very well hitting Europe from the east coast but can't hear local OPs. Have you noticed this? I've been told it's because of the takeoff angle.
@@RickPaquinGlad you liked the video and it helped out. In this instance I have not tried copper wire for the hoop but I believe it wouldn’t work because it would throw off the resonant frequency. Reason I say this is I tried it on a 2 meter antenna and that is what happened. As far as not hearing locals I’ve experienced the same thing. Either they are horizontally polarized or are just too close. They almost have to be 300 to 400 miles away at least for me to hear them. But I can hit Japan and New Zealand with 100 watt’s when the band is cooperating. LOL! Thanks for watching.
You aren't going to get 6 dB gain out of a 1/4 wave vertical no matter what you put underneath it. You can prove that with by modeling it.
Thanks for watching and commenting. If you use the models you are referring to and compare a ground mounted 1/4 wave vertical with 16 radials at 5 degrees off the horizon (where you will see a -6db) to a 1/4 wave vertical fed at 9.5 meters above ground level with 4 vertical’s at 5 degrees off the horizon (where the model shows +.5 db) that is over +6 db improvement. Run your models and see. I didn’t believe the models at all but if you take the time to look at my previous video you will see that the models you are referring to (which I believed not accurate) are correct. The changes are due to having an elevated vertical as opposed to a ground mounted vertical. Just proving the point of the value of elevated over ground mounted. The DX improvement is there. 73.
@@yqtszhj Oh come on ... that's comparing apples to bananas. Any antenna will perform differently depending upon it's position relative to RF ground. If that's your point OK, but ANY configuration of a vertical antenna will do the same. You're just changing the elevation angle of the main lobe ... you aren't producing gain. Useful of course, but certainly misleading.
Great job about the system 👍
Thanks!
Very clever 👍 73 KK3R Houston, Tx
I am a ham for 40-45 years and old antennas from early 1900 reinvents with great antenna gain A 1/4 wave antenna is 0dB Looks to me all those inventions of the last 10 years are novice amateurs they Never looking in a antenna handbook , they the having trouble try to solder ,probably buying cables with the connectors already on it , but they are really good with there iPhone , Sorry for this rant
Then as I’m sure you know most all antennas provide no gain in themselves but change the radiation pattern to accomplish the task desired. There is no free lunch. In this case the point is that an elevated 1/4 wave vertical at 10 meters provides a better low angle radiation pattern (theoretically) relative to a ground mounted vertical and is theoretically more efficient for the purpose of DXing and reception. Have a great day!
Great video, and as both you and I have found, where possible all verticals should be elevated for best performance.
Some actually extend the radials with string chord, acting as guy lines to a fence or the ground. Fantastic ant, and makes me wonder why, four square ant are made on the ground. 73 zl3xdj
Thanks. How are you liking that new FT-710?
@yqtszhj great on cw.
Construct another one mounted just above ground on the same pole. This will give a true test of the difference between elevated and ground level.
interesting. how do you prevent the pole from collapsing?
It works pretty well using the friction from the pole sections but I have clamps for longer term use when needed. Thanks for your question.
Nice. Try a 5/8 radiator
Do you think it work any better as a 1/2 wave?
@@briansummers3488 I actually have a cut half wave and it doesn’t work quite as well but there is the advantage that you can put a 49:1 or 64:1 transformer on it and not have to use radials. A 3/4 wave works pretty well too but you can’t get it quite as high with my current setup and it seems the radiation pattern doesn’t beat the 1/4 wave at 10 meters. I just try to get as much wire as high as I can get it. Thanks for watching!
1S unit = 3dB on current Yaesu, Icom transceivers
@@rolnas21 I agree. Thanks for watching and commenting. Kinda throws off what should be a standard. Greater gain of 2 solid S-units was observed in the previous video.
dB is meaningless, you must provide a second reference, theus dBi, dBd, etc... Anything that gets rid of radials on the ground is useful, but a vertical dipole is less work and cost than this solution.
Agree, you have to have a reference which many don’t understand. The reference in this instance is 5 degrees off the horizon for ground mounted vs 5 degrees off the horizon mounted at 10 meters. The first video shows this reference. Thanks for watching and commenting.
That's one sickly-looking solder joint on the center of the SO-239 connector.
I agree. It is reused from another project and is temporarily used for testing. Electrically it’s functional. Thanks for watching and commenting.
Yeah, but I'll bet it works just fine . . .