Suicide Assessment Role-Play - Ideation, Intent, and Plan
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ม.ค. 2015
- This video features a counseling role-play session that demonstrates assessment of a client (played by an actress) expressing suicidal ideation, intent, and plan.
![[LIVE] ใครคุยเรื่องบอล "พ่องตาย" #คุยให้เด็กมันฟัง EP.43 (13/7/67)](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/8bHYL8RuBqs/mqdefault.jpg)
![[Live สด] การออกรางวัลสลากกินแบ่งรัฐบาล งวดวันที่ 16 กรกฎาคม 2567](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/B8gcGM6I6e4/mqdefault.jpg)
Putting your chair in front of the exit door is a great part of any saftey plan 😂. Thanks very much for this informative video!
I’m pretty sure it’s a closet.
Good content. There's a mindfulness guide titled "30 Days to Reduce Depression" by Harper Daniels. It's very helpful. It's on Amazon I believe.
😂😂😂
ohh yes i see thats the reason I found it strange at first site coz usually in any professional setting client chair is in front of the exit ..
I dont mean to be offtopic but does anyone know of a trick to get back into an instagram account..?
I was dumb forgot the login password. I would appreciate any tips you can give me
This was a perfect example of being able to disagree with the client while being supportive and direct.
I definitely agree. The counselor also kept pointing out the positives to situations that the client had experienced, such as the positive experiences or outcomes of being in the hospital.
@@angelinastanton7996 yes, that is what works.
NO! Omg people, clients are human beings. No a machine to be fixed.
This one is my favorite. I keep listening to it over and over to hear arguments against my own messed up thoughts.
Seriously adding at least 1 view/day to its count.
I liked how Dr. Grande didn't jump to conclusions and allowed the client to tell her story. The client beginning with saying she was "fine," Dr. Grande probed and confronted the incongruities. It comes to show that patience is key to therapy.
Jasmine Aviles I agree. He gave her time to talk and explain her thoughts and actions.
He is using guilt. Big No No.
He didn't let her tell her story. He is putting words in her mouth. He is guilt tripping her. It's disgusting.
j
patience, but also doing something.
my therapist just sat on her fat stupid ass and listened the whole time, collecting fat checks, while completely neglecting obvious things should could help me with, and just not caring, given the way she prioritized things.
“It is an extravagant demand that a man who no longer cares to live for himself, should still go in living as a mere machine for the benefit of others”
Oh man, this
yeah, as a psy student (on my last year) this is really a hard challenge, I would say you can face it through sell love and/or built of determination, some kind of reenchantemnt with the world. of course, it would too naive to think of this as an easy task, being actually an almost imposible challenge. (sorry 4 shitty english)
@@VbreakAnon thanks for replying I forgot this quote and a couple of days ago tried to recall it and didn't know where to find it again. This really is something to ponder.
Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)
Yeah basically the reason you shouldn’t do it is because it would devastate others?! Who cares? The point is every man for himself.
Dr. Grande was as patient as possible while making it very clear that he did not agree with her plan. He allowed her to come to her conclusion when possible, but was appropriately directive when telling her that he needs to help keep her safe.
Whenever I start thinking that my family would be better off without me I come and watch this video. It reminds me that my family wants me around and would be devastated if I ended my life. This video helps me hold on another day. Thank you, Dr. Grande.
Much love Dannan
Annabel Lee thank you, Annabel!
@Meili Coaching and Psychotherapy Thank you so much. :)
❤
In my case it’s the opposite. It’s actually a sister from hell gaslighting me constantly and ostracizing me from the rest of the family for the last 20 years that has made me want to exit the planet.
She turned everyone against me FOR NO REAL REASON and I’ve only ❤️loved❤️all of them.
But heir hearts have become hardened now and I’m sure no tears will be shed when Im gone. I will be glad to leave this world.
I’m sure no one’s life review will be perfect but I’d like to see hers (to see her reasoning for what she did to me.)
I feel like that long lost dog looking for its owner for years. Waiting for their face, their touch, their smile. And then I see them and they just walk on by.
That’s how I feel every single day.
💔😔🙏💔😔🙏💔😔🙏💔😔🙏
Therapist "Anything that could stop you?"
Pacient "Dunno... probably free counceling?"
Therapist "...I'll be praying for you"
(Hopes nobody gets offended, but that was a conversation that I had inside my head for some years 😂)
😆
That's a variation on the "Snake bite" joke.
😂GOLD
loooooooove it
Some of you are saying this isn't accurate, but I found this to be extremely accurate. I've been in that woman's position several times, and it reminds me a lot of my own experience.
This video depicts a suicidal client well. Most client's are not this open and direct. She seems too calm and comfortable with her decision and most clients do not present in such a way. Please be mindful this is for exposure for educational purposes and most clients will need much prompting to ensure their safety.
She's acting they can't use the actual client. However, if the client consent to the video and fog their face it would be a great idea to use a real client.
actually the more serious suicidal clients are pretty chill and honest. if they have a good connection with their therapist they will be pretty transparent about their plans. Almost nonchalant about it. Check on your quiet friends.
Alot are, we don't care at that point. We're most likely crying for help but can't cry anymore
The calm and content demeanor is often a sign that someone is serious about their "solution." When I considered going through with it and developed a plan, I felt an immense sense of calm in the days leading up to it. I've told my therapist before that I had a plan. I wasn't as forthcoming, but the calm demeanor is extremely accurate. Saying that "most clients do not present in such a way" when referring to calmness is simply not true.
This video explains why 150/hour is is more than earned.
As soon as she said she was doing fine i knew she found relief in having a plan. People who are tortured by depression seek to find escape and suicidal route is the easiest. That's about the mount of energy they have needed to unstuck from the state they are in. Then it's essential that they are prevented and directed to activities that insipre some vision of future success. Like playing an instrument.. writing.. photography.. anything that helps them feel useful which happens they also enjoy.. a motivation. I'm not an expert, it's purely my opinion and i have lots of opinions i give just for inspiration, doesnt mean they work for everybody..
I was surprised to hear that the acting client came forward with her confession.. it really takes unlimited trust in the confidant to open up like that.. i would never expect it to happen but i see now how that is possible
Awesome video!
If they felt like playing music or doing art or photography, they wouldn’t be depressed. You can’t just do an activity to get yourself out of depression. It’s a very real problem and many times it’s brought on by spiritual warfare which this doctor doesn’t address.
@@weaverdreams they don't feel like doing anything, true, but they can still choose. Spiritual warfare? What's that?
@@malabuha google it
I love the role-plays! Last week at my intern site, we had to send a patient to the hospital. Now, more than ever, I want to be sharp when talking to a client thinking about suicide. With the population I'm working with, suicide is something we deal with on a daily basis.
Dr. Grande, I appreciate all your work.
It was good to see how Dr. Grande picked up on how her mood was different then usual and asked for her solution. It was interesting how Dr. Grande stayed calm during the session and remained asking probing questions such as what she needed to get in order. I thought it was interesting how Dr. Grande told his client that he was going to actively try to stop her. I liked how Dr. Grande told his client that consequences to her actions, how it’s not the answer, and how it would affect her family even if she left a note.
I like how Dr. Grande met the client where she was, but voiced his concern for her. He reminded her how she felt much better after previous hospitalizations.
I think that meeting the client where she is is integral, especially with a client with suicidal ideation, intent, and a plan.
I'm so glad I discovered these older videos. I would love to see similar content in the future!
This reminded me of the importance of not misinterpreting a client's sudden positivity or elevated mood. I like that Dr. Grande remained calm and continued to ask questions rather than just react without getting as much information from the client as possible. When I began the video, I was hopeful that she would play a client who is NOT willing to go to the hospital so I liked that she showed some frustration by Dr. Grande's insistence and gave him some resistance so we could see an example of how to handle that. I also liked that he heavily focused on her impact on her family and the pain that would accompany her killing herself. "Another artifact that they can agonize over" agonize for the rest of their lives because they lost you, special kind of horrible agony - I know you don't want that.
+Kimberly Kelly I agree it is vitally important to not misinterpret the clients sudden positive mood and see it as they are getting better but question the mood change.
"...and they will agonize for the rest of their lives..." This is the only thing that keeps me alive
same
Fuck them.
For sure. My daughter's friend killed himself. We all felt and still feel guilt. We kept thinking how we could have and should have done more. We all felt life we let him down, hadn't done what we could to help. It was horrible watching his mother at the funeral. We all kept wanting him for him to come back alive. I'm glad both of you are not killing yourselves for others, but take it a step further, stay and work on your well being. You deserve to feel better.
Dr Grande you are a breath of fresh air with your excellent way of judging things in previous videos and seeing you be so rational in theses videos is incredible. Wow
I am very impressed at the ability to catch it at this stage- this is the hardest thing to do. It's easy to miss- the person feels better. I need to watch the video several times, to fully understand this in a way that is transferable to other situations. I lost a friend who I interacted with when she was in this stage. She was feeling better. She was happy. I didn't realize that this was what was going on. She killed herself the next day. Yes, even years later, the friends think about it and think, if only I had....
This was a great example of ideation, intent, and plan. I found it useful that the client mentioned the concern for their relationship. Her comment really showed the impact a counselor's alliance can have on the plan. The counselor stresses his role to stop her from committing suicide. I can see the importance of using her own previous words that have worked in the past to keep her from executing a plan. Finding an angel that keeps the client talking was helpful in this situation. I appreciate the honesty of the counselor discussing hospitalization.
this is great for people wanting to approach depressed people in a proper way thanks for the clarity !
I'm not sure if pressuring her to not commit suicide due to the lasting pain and damage she would cause her family is the best approach.
@Jack D I'd shop around. There are good councilors out there speaking from experience. I'm sorry for your pain but I'm glad to hear you had the courage to seek out support.
Victim blaming never works. I would never tell someone who is suicidal about their family unless they brought it up. It's not as though a suicide attempt is deliberately targeting other people. People just lose the ability to cope and they do what works best in the moment.
Being able to see this last video discussing her desire to take her own life with the ideation, intent, and plan was helpful. It was grim when she compared her suicide to taking a weekend trip as long as the weather was right. This is a sick way to relate suicide, but I am positive this is how people with the motive, plan, and opportunity to carry out suicide may think.
+Jessica Muzzin I like how he continued to get the client's input into going to the hospital. Even after she had discussed her feelings about not going and she had already made up her mind. He continued to try to help her come to terms for seeking help.
These kinds of videos, WITH SCENARIOS, are the ones I like. I LIKE WHEN THERE IS A SIMULATION involved, so that we see EXACTLY how he manages it. You see that she has a time, she is whole heartedly set on this solution, AND SHE HAS A PLAN!!! You can talk about the management, when It's just discussed on the management, and It's not simulated, That's a way to explain what you might, and should do in various situations. WHEN YOU GET A SCENARIO played out, as in this video, It really helps to understand.
My DAD killed himself. He left a note and the first word on the note was "Sorry!" He had BS reasons about health, but he could not come out and say he grieved for my Mother who had died a few months earlier of natural causes. The night he took his life he called up and seemed in a good mood. He had a plan. The next day his attorney found him in a pool of blood in the garage. I was criticized for not seeing the warning signs of suicidal ideation. To me, Dad was accepting the loss of his wife of 60 years and was moving on in life. That is what I wanted to see. Alcohol. depression, and suicide are the bane of us older adults. Still, I liked the Doctor's demeanor and lack of nonverbal movements that I would have found distracting if I was the client.
+Roberta Westerberg Sorry to hear this. But I am sure he did not want to do it. He must have been feeling a lot of pain... Just celebrate the life he had.
I’m sorry for your loss. Had my share too. The “signs” yes, can be very misleading and subtle. But while guilt is a normal feeling, it’s not your fault, you are not to blame for other people’s ultimate decision. He found his peace now
I love how Dr.Grande was so directive yet caring with his approach. I'm really learning a lot from these roleplays. Great video!
A lot of people wont even tell anyone about killing themselves to anyone and that's including the psychologists.
This video did a great job of explaining how to handle this type of situation. I like how Dr. Grande reminded the client of his duty to warn against client self harm, I think it is necessary to always let the client know of your responsibilities and to talk them out of these types of decisions. It blew me away when Dr. Grande was explaining how family members will feel guilty if she commits suicide rather than died of natural causes.
+Candace Fernandez I think that it was great that he was reminding her repeatedly of his duty and how he was going to do what he needed to, to protect her life. I think it's important to keep that in front of the client. I feel it helps the client not to feel betrayed when the confidentiality is broken.
This procedure in this video, never worked for one of my relatives who went and committed suicide anyway. He basically went along with everything he was told by his doctors and then didn't tell anybody about his suicide plan. Everybody believed him until they found him hanging. The lesson is don't assume because someone is willing to accept treatment that they won't try to kill themselves again.
I think it is so very important to show the client/patient evidence (photographs, videos) of those intermittent times when they experienced joy after medication adjustment, therapy that helped even temporarily…
I don’t have plans to act on, but I’m in the cycle of my depression where it’s hard to feel any worth and it does feel like my family would be better off without me. I’ve been through this cycle so many times it does feel defeating and exhausting. I had my first thoughts of suicide around age 8. I’m 40 now, and it starts to feel so pointless when I hit this stage.
It’s worse now because my OCD fixation has been to perseverate on thoughts of not being alive and wanting to self injure. It takes all my mental and emotional strength to simply exist some days. I’m really hoping I’m about to turn the corner on this level of emotion and intensity of intrusive mental imagery.
I’ve found the counselor-client suicide roleplaying videos comforting. I do have a therapist I see, but I think seeing someone else expressing similar feelings as I have is kind of cathartic.
In this video, I like how he talked to her about the two sides of her. The one that wants to die and the one that wants to be stopped.
I was also really impressed with how Dr. Grande, just brought up that fact that she knew what telling him would meant he would do. He didn't dance around the subject.
I also liked how he reminded her of what her family had said about losing her.
+Mandy Moore I agree, I think as a counselor it is very important to be honest and straight forward with a client letting them know of the precautions we as counselors must take to protect our clients.
+Mandy Moore Agreed. This topic always worries me when I think about how I would handle future clients who experience similar issues. But this video is helpful in demonstrating how to react to suicidal thoughts and plans.
I think Dr. Grande handles this so well. He is so comforting even in the face of refusing to honor her desire that he leave it be. I also like the way he explains the impact of suicide on others and how responsible they feel.
Yes Carol, Its very helpful to have such a great example as to how to properly handle a client who is suicide.
Dr. Grande, I know this is an old video and I doubt you'll see this comment, but I wonder if there is any way to address part of the content of this video in the current 2019 format. Specifically around the guilt and blame felt by the loved ones of a person who has ended their life. I wonder about the long-term consequences, especially for someone who might have good reasons to believe they neglectfully or selfishly helped to put the person into the position to end their life. Perhaps red flags were ignored. It seems like if a person truly believed their specific actions logically contributed to the suicide of a loved one, it would affect them in many ways over a long time. I'd be very much interested to hear what you and the literature have to say about the topic. And I suppose the best way to have this addressed is to bury the question in a 3-year-old comment thread ;)
I would not feel good if my therapist frankly stated that they were against suicide and explained the hurt it would cause the family.
This feels very much like a moral judgement to me, and quite harsh. I'd be upset at my therapist, tbh.
At first, I was somewhat confused by the client's calm demeanor but quickly realized the severity of her suicidal ideation, plan, and intent. I thought it was helpful to observe Dr. Grande as he remained calm, which appears necessary as an appropriate reaction to the client.
+Jacklin Skibicki Yes, I like how Dr. Grande remained calm but also not letting the client shut down or change the subject. He stayed with her.
jacklin - one of the danger signs of suicide is a calm demeanor and/or a sudden unexpected recovery.
It's hard for me to believe that a client would actually speak like this. I think that anyone who is actually going to go ahead with suicide isn't going to bother to continue seeing a therapist, and if they do continue seeing a therapist, then they don't actually want to do it.
MsMsmak That's false. People can be suicidal for years, with and without therapists, secretive and open. Also being suicidal doesn't mean that you don't also have doubts...they are mixed and the danger is that in a moment of feeling overwhelmed a person can commit suicide.
Having suicidal thoughts can happen without being diagnosed with a mental illness. So many people who would have no need for therapy have killed themselves out of impulse when means were available. A therapist job is to reduce risk. Suicidal ideation by itself is not a guarantee that the person wants to die. It’s just because they are in severe emotional pain and don’t know how to get out of it.
Most people aren't this direct about the details I don't think. Do you?
Yes they can be this calm and direct! However that being said insurance is the next issue you need to be weathy to afford counseling nowadays!
The way he was speaking made her feel comfortable and the time they were talking . She was direct because she had a feeling she didn’t want to deep down
@@killuasenko1553 Also, they had more than a year of therapy, so at this time she would be way more confident to talk to him, and see him as an important person that she should warn
Actually, the two truly depressed & suicidal people I’ve been close to my whole life have talked about it pretty frankly to me like this. They might torture themselves with deep thought and suffer a lot on their own but there are times when talking to another person that they can be pretty blunt & casual sounding about it.
@@MK-Hogan Yup, they are. but they're masking their discomfort by being casual and they are being blunt to avoid having the feeling lasts longer.
I would like to know what he would do if the client refused to go voluntarily to the hospital.
20 years later you are dealing with the same issues. There are ups and downs but it’s real and consistent. Sisyphus say hello to rock.
Thank you I counsel suicidal clients. This role play has been really informative
This is another good instructional video !
This video showed how to work with a client who had to be hospitalized. Dr. Grande collaborated with the client and listened to her as opposed to just hospitalizing her right from the start. It seemed that she felt understood in this difficult time.
I also liked how he tried to collaborate with her and get her to willingly go to the hospital. It's important to try to maintain the relationship while remaining firm in his duty to protect her. I think she'd be more likely to return to see him when she is released as a result.
His chair is blocking the door. Scary.
Football tackle the client!!
Time to go super-sayan!
There are two doors, just can see the one to the left for the video. There are two rubber wall protector thingies.
My PTSD Flags would have been thrown up and The barred exit would lead to great amounts of anxiety and irritability. Being trapped by my therapist would be grounds for terminating therapy with that particular therapist.
Oh Yeah, fuck 😅
If someone tells you 'the plan' then they are reachable. It's the ones that don't tell you the plan.
SO useful and insightful! Thank you!
I really liked this video, it is great to be able to see examples of sessions for suicide. I find that viewing these role plays are very helpful to me.
+Melissa Clendaniel I really enjoyed these session examples, too! It's really nice to see these played out... this is such an important topic.
Another good counseling demonstration. I enjoyed this video.
Thank you for sharing this counselling role play.
You're welcome!
Interesting thoughts and questions from this video. I wonder how often a client directly states a desire to end their life and if this level of trust then leads to an ease in developing a therapeutic response. In watching this I noted that I had internalized this conversation with myself and oddly over the past year have given up the grief of wanting closer relationships and the perpetual demands on myself within the ‘sanctuary’ of lockdown. I also have avoided large insurance policies to avert a ‘plan’ of more substance. Finally I’m appreciating myself more with surviving the adversities each year presents.
This doc and every other doc fails to understand time and time again. If someone is truly bipolar and depressed with suicidal thoughts it’s something they have experienced over and over and over sometimes for 30 years consistently or more.. No matter what “help”, meds, hospital, psych ward, yada yada none of these things cure these people’s pain forever. You may temporarily convince them to keep trying and keep going but that ever so familiar pain will resurface and these people know it... Again it’s a repeated mind state and emotional mood that they do not have control over. Without a doubt these feelings will always resurface no matter what anyone does. They get tired. Tired of fighting. Tired of the pain. Tired of trying to find someone that understands. At this point death is the only solution in their minds. When ppl say “forever solution to temporary problems” they have absolutely no clue what they are talking about. These problems for these unfortunate people will continue on and on, in and out, up and down forever like a roller coaster until it breaks you. Until you are so defeated and tired that you in your own mind have no other choice. It comes to a point where if you’re going to “stop the pain” you must “stop living”. I admire this doc and others who care and try to help but they fail. And to give anyone hope when they are born like that is a false hope. ....it just becomes “how long can I put up with this” everyone has their breaking point and it’s not weakness or selfishness or anything ignorant naive answers normal people come up with. It’s a never ending struggle that “bipolar” people can only juggle for so long. God bless everyone who is struggling with mental health and god bless every “normal” person for trying to help. More often in life than not, things are what they are.
100% truth! 👍
is that what lie is not about going through hard times coming through to times when there are good again, you said in your post they have been thinking it for numerous years, that means numerous years they have been able to move past the impulse and have a quality of life.
Truth my brother commuted suicide 13 months ago. Now I feel his pain .
There are ways out of this cycle. It is hard, but there are. One thing is the person needs to have conversations directly about the worst of the feelings. This is extremely hard to do in therapy because when those very bad feelings surface, they are accompanied by suicidality, and then the focus becomes risk assessment and hospitalization, rather than talking about the feelings. If counselors recognize the importance of actually talking about the bad feelings, that can help, and also the client can go elsewhere to get that need met, such as an Alternatives to Suicide support group or an Intentional Peer Support group. Another thing is that people need to find ways to take breaks from the bad feelings and build a quality of life, which means they may need intensive support about other areas of their life than "mental health". Things like the In Shape Program, that give people intensive support about fitness, recreation, nutrition, and physical health, are very transformative. The In Shape Program has a very impressive outcome record of helping clients move from revolving-door in and out of hospital all the time, chronic awful mental health and no quality of life, to a very different picture, such as enjoying life, doing fun things, not needing hospitalizations anymore, and reduced dependence on medication. That's a very common outcome for In Shape Program participants. I really think every mental health organization should implement it in some form or another, for exactly this reason. It is not true that anyone is genetically predisposed to having a horrible quality of life with no hope. That is false. But the "mental health" community needs to do more than counseling, medication and hospitalization. There's more to mental health than just trying to reduce symptoms. Elevating quality of life is more important than reducing symptoms. It can be done, if it is prioritized, which it should be. Quality of life is the point of why it's worthwhile to live, so it should be the highest priority to the clinicians. There should be a lot more focus on that, and not just on fixing what's wrong with people.
I think it should be standard to give people PT and OT and help with nutrition, for mental health issues of every kind, to get the quality of life off of rock bottom. Mental health care needs to be much more comprehensive, not just drugs, therapy, and hospital. It's moving in that direction, but not fast enough and not reaching everyone in need.
@@heidihenkel7680 extremely well said. Agreed 10000%
He is making an improvisational training video.
She is going through a therapy session.
Her responses are heart felt.
Who else is hea becoz is having a mental practical examination soon 🤔
A lot of people don't admit they're going to do it. So it's a big cry for help. I watched something recently of a husband not realising his wife was planning suicide. She'd been depressed and unwell for a while and this one particular week she was so happy and organised. He just thought she was feeling better. She wasnt. It was because she'd planned on the suicide and the weight was lifted off her. He still feels awful that he didn't pick up on that change being correlated with her suicide. 😢
I think a truly suicidal person would not tell anyone of their plans. As someone with 32 years of chronic depression, I should have the right to end my life and I wished we live in a society where euthanasia was legal.
+Mark G. Hey mate, Sorry to hear this. Did you try and find the problem? Did you check your testosterone? What about b vitamins.
I had testosterone level checked. Thanks
How are they?
What do you think is causing your problem?
+Dustin MacDonald When you say people talk about it before attempts, it's, from experience, subtle clues, symbolic gestures, etc...not so much explicit. Explicit talk tends to come from those who have some experience with being in therapy or have made previous attempts. As an experiment I made several references to suicidal ideas over a three week period...totally missed by everyone. So, the problem is two-fold, people don't speak clearly about their suicidal intentions and people ignore the message.
***** I've stated it several times in my life. I must admit to being surprised when people feel shocked. I guess it's because I just assume everyone feels this horrible about life. I know eventually I will kill myself. I'm just waiting for a few things to happen and I will go then. I'm bored, fed up, living is simply an aimless, painful experience and I am getting too old to change anything now. I've basically lived my whole life for other people and death feels like a vacation or retirement for me. I don't get why this should surprise or shock or offend people. Why people need to stop me or change my mind. I would get it if I was in my 20s or 30s but I am now in my 50s. I'm ok with this.
I thought it was so important that the counselor kept coming back to the ambivalence the client expressed and challenged her ambivalence on suicide. He also made it clear to the client that he would have to act to stop her if she tried to harm herself.
As someone who has dealt with this if you do this you are seeking someone to talk you out of it. I lost my job and I’m getting evicted and I have substance abuse issues as a way to cope from the suffering. I’m admitting myself in a few days. I’ve never had this long of a non-chalant talk. I know how to do it and know what I need to do but I have a fear I’ll just be reincarnated back here , I have no problem in not existing but I am self aware enough too know that isn’t a healthy mentality and my life is already shit so a psych ward is really any much better or worse but atleast my family knows where I am at.
“Well you know I’m going to have to try to stop you and put you in the hospital, so I’m not quite sure why you are telling me this”.
I did not take this statement the wrong way. Through their dialogue, it was made clear they have had an ongoing relationship. He seems to know the client well. He seemed to be probing for her purpose of wanting to bring it up in counseling because she KNOWS he will stop her. So if she really wanted to do it, why bring it up in therapy? It could be true that this time really was different for her--she did not want him to stop her like she did in the past. Or maybe she wanted clarification like she said? Or maybe there really was a part of her, even if unconsciously, that wanted to be stopped? I guess the wording could have been better at the end of the statement, but I understood the intention behind it given their relationship and history. He had a history to compare to.
This video in accordance to the others associated with it gives another great example of how to conduct suicide ideation sessions under different circumstances.
I agree that the suicide ideation session videos are so helpful and assist me in being a better counselor when approaching this sensitive topic.
This video definately explored clients other options other then committing sucide and exactly what to do in a situation where the client is really motivated to follow through.
After experiencing and professionally studying traumatic bereavement, I would argue that deaths from car accidents do cause struggles with guilt and blame, especially if the kinship is someone that a person feels responsible for. But, he did say “usually”. Thanks you still.
So interesting and informative. Ty dr for theae
I'm sorry it's serious but when she just literally said she wanted to CS so point blank it made me burst out laughing.
Suicide doesn't take away your pain, it just passes it on to someone else.
I heard that a few years ago and it really gave me some perspective.
I know it sounds cliche but it really does get better. It took me a lot of years and a very deep dark rock bottom but you CAN get better.
She was so happy and he took it from her. Sick man!
I read the comments and watched the video once again. But I still felt Dr. Grande was guilt tripping the patient.
the therapist's comment, "The note you'll write doesn't soften the blow for your family. It actually gives them another artifact to be sad over." was impactful and a perspective worth sharing. Thank you so much. P.S. The decor is so dated can we update this video?
The main Argument to prevent suicide was the trauma that was Going to be caused to the family, but what If you are almost 60 years old, have health problems, financial problems lost your husband. Have no family no friends what would be the argument, then to stay alive and you’ve been depressed for over more than 10 years? Why is suicide such a taboo after all we live in an already overpopulated world.
I never understand this... Why I should tell about this to my therapist if I know that she/he will put me into the hospital?
This was a very interesting video. The "solution," that the client expressed was very chilling. It is very interesting to see how one with a mental illness may find a comfort within their suicide ideation, intent and plan. They know that their suffering is going to end and they feel better. This is very dangerous and as a counselor we have to always look out for this type of behavior.
And yet people live in that suicidal space for years, even decades on end - It's the only comfort some people find while suffering through life.
I don't know. I really can't picture somebody being suicidally depressed, with a plan and intent to be setting up a conversation like this...so lucid.
@@Chickenface12345 it's a pretty natural state for someone who's tired and can afford to be held up a little longer. Once you're sure that the plan will work, then you just have time to set affairs in order. If medication doesn't work, there's nothing that the psychologist *can* do to stop you, just stuff that delays you. But that's fine, you have a plan, the pain will all end then, and you want the psychologist to feel like they did all they could, that it's not their fault, you're just too broken for them to fix. You want everyone to know that it's not them, it's you, and that you want them to move on and enjoy their lives without you around their necks dragging them down.
Oh that’s not true. There are plenty of good reasons to take yourself out of this world. It’s not always a mental illness.
Here are a few:
chronic physical illness
terminal illness
not wanting to be a burden
Actually mental illness is a good reason to take yourself out too.
Because you don’t want to be that way, and youre tired of suffering.
Being completely alone after being ostracized from your family is another good reason; especially if you’re older.
In this case the family should feel responsible but since they’re heartless they won’t even shed a tear.
Conclusion: I can safely go without causing anyone any pain.
@@blowitoutyourcunt7675 That’s the nastiest name I’ve ever heard. Why do you have to be so crude? No one wants to hear anything you say because u blast who you are with your ridiculous obnoxious name.
This kind of reaction is why I refuse to tell a therapist that I feel suicidal. All it does is get you committed for however long with all freedoms stripped away from you. I once told a friend in another state that I was feeling suicidal and she actually called the cops on me in my home state! They came and bundled me off to the ER for 24 hours where they just stuck me in a bed and ignored me before finally letting me go. No reasoning, no caring, no support. Guess what "friend" I never talk to anymore?
I saw my last therapist for 8 years, and this sounds almost identical to one of the last sessions we had. I wish I could find such an empathetic therapist where I live now.
It’s like a thought experiment. Fascinating.
I always feel so anxious and dumb I can’t seek help like that. When I do, I’m so shaky and feel so sick. I cry a lot... and just feel like a burden or pain in the ass. Is it really this easy to get help that I need??? Because in my mind I’m so anxious I can’t try again. If I could be honest with one person about how I really feel... that would mean everything. I’ve tried only a couple shrinks. And left annoyed, felt stupid and judged, and never got help. I would never commit suicide because I have my babies to think of. But I’ve wanted to. And I feel in a constant state of depression.
When Dr. Grande says he is going to make those arrangements (at the end of the video), what does that mean? What happens next ?
I thought it was interesting that Dr. Grande pointed out that even though the client wanted to kill herself that she came into therapy. I also thought it was interesting that when a person commits suicide the the family and friends feel responsible.
Dr. Grande staying calm while the client bluntly stated that she was no longer contemplating suicide but decided that she was going to was powerful to me because I don;'t know if I could remain that calm. The client described her plan, how it will affect others, and what to do with her possessions which are all giant red flags for a suicide attempt. Dr. Grande successfully probed about what the depression was about and that he would attempt to stop her.
I'm not like this suicidal client in the video. I keep secrets and I will do it when I'm ready.
My professor used this video for discussion response purposes. Without discussing my own thoughts here, I'm simply inquiring as to the date the video was uploaded. Perhaps it's a glitch on my end, but next to the "views" count is normally the upload date, which is not displayed for this video (at least, not that is visible to me). For citation purposes, this makes it very difficult. For future students who may encounter the same concern, could you please share that information?
IMO, if an adult wants to commit suicide, he/she should have that choice w/o some forced intervention to stop their suicide intent. People commit suicide because they are so miserable that they can't bear it. Saying "suicide is so selfish" is selfish to say.
Usually, the suicidal thinking is transient. If you can change their mind during that time frame, or protect them during their difficult time, it can pass.
An adult that wants to commit suicide and does not consider it selfish is in dire need of education about what suicide actually means and what suicide does to the people left behind, but most importantly what suicide does to themselves.
Dhanh Mehti
What you're saying is, "don't commit suicide because it will hurt ME." Well, that's selfish cause all you're thinking about is yourself. Why don't you consider the person who is suffering from depression and simply wants to end their misery??? The moral thing to do is say, "I understand... I wish you wouldn't but it's OK... do what you feel is best."
All I am saying is when one is committing suicide that person is hurting themselves first and then the others. Would you like to hurt for eternity? I didn't think so. The depressed person does not want either, so suicide is not a solution.
Wrong !! Try again
This was a good demonstration. The counselor was direct and informed the client about his duty to keep her safe. Also, I found it interesting that the client stayed in session after hearing that the counselor will have to act now that he has been informed about her plan to commit suicide.
Dr. Grande is really persistant about getting her to go to the hospital willingly. He could have her admitted against her will but he pushes for her to consent to it.
+Alicia Zahn I really liked how he did that. Having someone unwillfully commited can hurt the client even though it saves them from herself, but having their consent makes the situation more comfortable for the client
So she is consenting to involuntary hospitalisation. It's definitely not voluntary.
So whst happens if she just gets up and tries to leave?
Is it possible to section someone when the family and friends say their loved one is going to do it but when you asses the person they don't want you to stop them so they say the "right things" like they don't have specific plans and they don't know for sure if they want to? Or they just straight up lie and say they don't want to and will not try when they really do?
I live on the Isle Of Wight where treatment is free and very basic. Mental health doctors and hospitals are constantly over-budget and under-staffed so someone who is in serious danger of themselves can wait 8 months plus for this type of assessment and after this it can take just as long to act.
I've also witnessed a person saying to lots of doctors they are going to kill themselves but will not disclose a method. The doctors tell the family without the patient telling them their plan they cannot hospitalize them and in some cases say they can't help them at all.
Would it be the same way for thoughts of homicide, just curious.
Wouldn’t you just lie and say you didn’t feel that way anymore to get you out of the hospital. Then do it once you are out?
I feel like this sometimes. Nice video 😔
So there is basically no end to an ever-ending suffering, torturous existance because even when left to our own devices we confess so we someone stops us from doing it and scare us. Great. Awesome life. Can't wait to wake up every morning and go through it again.
You deserve to feel better.
I deserve to not live with a permanent disability. that's never going to happen. I will always be a burden on other people forever. I certainly don't want that to happen.
Thank you
Was this a specific method like CASE ?
"Fine..."
"Great, here's your bill, see you next week."
This was really good to watch. In my mind if a client had the ideation, intent, and plan I would have to stop them right there and call the authorities or EMS to take them to a facility to get help. This role play shows that a counselor is still able to speak with the client about the situation and try to come up with a joint plan to where the client still has input and say in the matter instead of it just being the counselor's decision. This video will need to be revisited again to make sure the depth of this meeting holds so it can be used in the future.
This is why so many people will lie to you. They will tell you they aren't suicidal before going behind your back to kill themselves.
Some years ago, I almost took my own life. I was abused when I was a kid, broken, depressed, anorexic, bulimic, self-harming. suicidal. My biological father choked me and chased me with the lawnmower as if her was gonna run me over, I went in & out of psychiatric units like it was a game of Chess. Suicide watch. I was on enough Antidepressants to kill a horse since i was 12. I hated myself. I wanted out. I wanted the pain to stop. The abuse to end
I wanted power. I got into witchcraft. I thought it would give me the identity i wanted, to be set apart from people who hurt me. It only made me sicker. Sicker. Thats what it did to me.
The doctors said i’d never get well. That i would suffer severe Chronic Manic depression, and never be well, that id be stuck on antidepressants all of my life.
I would plot suicide on a daily basis, binging and purging my food as often as opening and closing a door. The pain was too real. People choked me. Assaulted me. Told me i was ugly, told me to apologize to him for every year i was alive. i felt worthless. Nothing ever got better. Then my mother died. The (1) & only soul who ever loved /emotionally supported me was removed from the earth. I was stuck living with people who broke me, ruined my identity, thus causing me to hate God. I thought God hated me, that he was just like the ones who tortured me, a family of abusers, who cover up all their actions with the mask of religion. I didnt know that God is on my side. I didnt know that Jesus would Love and Defend me, and fight for me and that He later would heal me, rescue me from Family. The ones who caused me pain. The ones who choked me for wearing a pagan necklace.
I moved out after family threatened to throw all my belongings on the front yard, and have me permanently institutionalized in an insane asylum, when they were the ones who caused my mental illness via abuse.
They blamed me for the abuse they did to me.
To take my life in a psychiatric unit aka insane asylum when they were the ones who made me suicidal.
Next morning i moved in with my dead mom’s parents.
I stayed on the antidepressants, prescribed. But they only made me sicker. I got deeper and deeper into witchcraft, thinking it was a solution. But it made me even more suicidal. Self hatred was inescapable. All my cards have fallen down. I have nothing left. But out. I wanted out.
I decided i was going to kill myself. I was going to take all my pills.
But then Jesus stepped in. I didnt die. I surrendered my life to Jesus to make me well and heal me.
The deity i blamed for me being abused wanted to heal me. He Was fighting for me and Loved me all along.
He wanted to love me. He wanted to give me a new heart. His Heart.
Jesus miraculously healed me - i am off all the drugs and dont need them and i dont have any mental illnesses. I am totally healed , full of joy.
I’m now a born again Christian.
I want ALL y’all to know that JESUS IS ON YOUR SIDE
HE’s FIGHTING FOR you.
Don’t believe me?
Just WATCH WHAT HE WILL DO FOR YOU NEXT
Stop spam posting asshole
You're such a good role model for me as a mental health worker, thank you for those videos
Terrible superiority, patriarchy model you mean. There is no respect for the client in this. Please look for other role models.
@@MistedForest stfu b!tch
excellent vid
Thanks!
I feel like nobody would just come out and say it bluntly like that. Any intelligent person knows that he’s going to have to report that and get her a higher level of help and if someone is truly wanting to leave... they wouldn’t want that and so would keep it quiet.
I’m my wife’s husband and I need help I’m not doing well .. but I have some dark feelings going on and have since I was a child I’m 32 now about to be 33 am I ignorant for feeling the feelings I feel that’s what I was told for not being normal shall I say
Dr Grande, do people actually come in and say they are committing suicide in two days? I understand people say they want to die etc but do they really talk about concrete plans? Are therapists allowed to let clients wAlk out the door without having them admitted when they can’t be steered into a plan to not commit suicide?
I think it's in the skill in how the therapist asks. I see a lot in common between this video and some crime videos that instruct people on criminal interrogation. There's probably a lot more skill to it than I even appreciate. The right balance of empathy and direct questioning, or something. I'd like to hear the theory behind it. The criminal interrogation videos on youtube explain the theories...
What if he just listened for a while then yelled, "Just snap out of it!" Like Cher says on moonstruck lol
I would not have put her in hospital. She is ambivalent enough to not warrant it. I would perhaps increase sessions for a time but that would be enough. The fact that she has been in hospital several times before is more worrying as it suggests that there is an increased dependency on the counsellor and hospital. It can bring on repeated suicidal ideation and behaviours because there is an emotional gain from it... attention, comfort, letting go of the burden of personal responsibility and effort. It sets people to become revolving door patients... hospitals should be used as absolute last resort where there is no ambivalence.
but she wants to kil herself within a few days and i think that doing sessions wont work as she will be dead before she goes to her second one, i think keeping her in a secure environment with professionals keeping an eye on her will lower the chances of her doing her suicide.
crai g Because someone states they want to kill themselves doesn't mean they will, even with plans. It can be diffused without putting someone into hospital which sets up a pattern of going from crisis to crisis. She is reacting to being overwhelmed and suicidal thinking is a calming thought, a way of controlling the uncontrollable. Someone who is truly going to kill themselves won't talk about it, they may give hints weeks or days ahead but when its time, they go silent. In this clip, getting her to agree to take away the temptations, involving her family and adding sessions on would be enough to diffuse her need to escape the overwhelming feelings through suicide. If she continued talking about it, or gave other indicators like self harm or preparing, then going silent about it, then yes put her into hospital.
I get what you are saying, and completely agree that some individuals do use suicidal ideation as an attention seeking measure. However, in many states, when an individual comes and verbally reports having suicidal ideation, especially if they have a thought out plan, the clinician is legally obligated to seek immediate inpatient treatment.
That's not true---- people who talk about it DO go on to do it
@@ladybug947 not true.
Is there anything else, you can tell a suicidal person? Any other advice, than emotional blackmail, that when they will finally choose the only 100% effective end of this unbearable suffering, than they will be guilty of hurting their loved ones?
Isn't it worse for the suicidal person to tell them their families will be in agony forever if they kill themselves? Also aren't you saying "it's better if you keep living in torment"? It sounds awful.