Again; a very cool explanation of what we’re looking out. I had no idea pilots knew so much engineering about a plane. I’ve been driving cars for fifty years but when I open the bonnet; I have no idea what the different parts are. Anyway, thanks for another great video.
11-28-2021.. I had watched ECJ Flt 81 crash on TheFlightChannel, 1991 Hawker 800, 8 people died.. Tkx for this video, I can understand how important using this is...
Thanks Shaun for another excellent Tech Tuesday....All the things we never knew we were interested in until you started talking about it. Cheers from NZ.
Great vlog as always! The Fokker F-28 also did not have any TR. That worked fine on the 1600m rwys in Norway for over 20 yrs. I guess that it had the same weights as a G-IV. Fly safe my friend!
Another well done video. You should show the TKS system and how it works. And what a big mess it makes!!!!! Hated that stuff. Give me bleed air heated leading edges any day.
I just subscribed to your channel but been watching it for a while. You seem to be enthusiastic about the mechanical workings of a aircraft. I could see you when you are close to retirement in some hanger tinkering with that plane you just bought :)
Great insight definitely love seeing the insight into the hangar! Actually the greater connection you corporate pilots have to your aircraft is what attracts me to being a corporate pilot! Keep up the hard work, its definitely appreciated!!
This was great, Shaun - been wondering about these for a while! Appreciate you crawling under the wing there for us, too. 👍🍻 I can imagine that works very well. When I used to work in industrial roofing, one gusty, windy day, I was carrying a thick 4'x8' section of "Polyiso" foam board, getting ready to lay it down on the deck - when I turned into the wind a certain way, I nearly went airborne! Air is super powerful I learned that day! I had to let go of it and let it go spiraling down to the parking lot below - luckily it was light enough to not cause any damage (and discipline for me!). We had a few sheets get airborne on their own from the deck, and broke in half over HVAC units or chimneys up there. A crazy day - one of many in that industry, lol! I understand clearly now how a 200k lb. fully loaded aircraft can fly, after a little 32 sq.ft. board nearly pulled all 150 lbs. of me off the roof! 😁
Great vlog Shaun!! That’s pretty cool how the lift dump system works, and even more impressive is that you don’t really need to use the TR’s. Didn’t even know some hawkers don’t have them!!! Thanks
That reminds me of the system they have on the B-2 Spirit, where the upper and lower control surfaces extend into the airflow on landing, presumably for the same purpose. Testament to how great of a force drag is at high speed. Pretty cool stuff, thanks Shaun!
Hey Shaun I have enjoyed your videos for a year now and glad to see you moving up the corporate ladder you have earned it. Tell us a little about this dude you fly with he is a total aviation geek. Does he ever just chill in the plane? He is constantly throwing out information and I could sense you were a little stressed in the last video flight. Be safe buddy and also thats a nice Corvette, get your dad in the video we would love to meet him too.
The type rating for the hawker series is call HS-125 and covers several models, one of which, called a Hawker 700, I flew back in the day (30 some odd years ago!?!?). That air frame also used the flaps for landings and then they could be put in the "lift dump" position once the aircraft was down on the runway. At one point the chief pilot and I were returning to our base field empty and we decided to see how effectively the lift actually got "dumped" and decided to try some HEAVY BRAKING upon landing and being rolling down the runway after touchdown (we had no passengers on board and had great faith in the hydro-mechanical anti skid system (which BTW worked EXTREMELY well and reliably for such a simple-old technology--- NO electronics or sensors invoked- system!), so weren't worried at all that we might slide a tire. Well, once down we basically and very carefully STOOD ON the brakes and it was amazing how rapidly (almost terrifyingly!) the aircraft decelerated! Between the drag/weight on wheels created by the flaps now being in lift dump AND the weight being VERY firmly pressing the tires onto the runway, it worked amazingly well, stopping the aircraft very rapidly and causing absolutely no directional control issues---nice and straight! And yes, We did NOT have thrust reverersers for the very reasons they talk about in this video and we used to fly that thing into Miegs Field in Chicago where there was a very short runway in jet terms!! (only 3900 feet! For you younger folks---do a search on the web for Miegs field--VERY interesting!!)
Thanks, Shaun! Must take a while to know all the systems on the various jets you fly. Certainly not the typical "kick the tires...light the fires...and go" routine!!!
I think I have seen this message a lot before, but on a tech Tuesday could u do a tour of the inside of the Hawker and the Gulfstream in one video so that we could see the differences between the two in the inside?! Like the entire inside of the planes, where the guests would be! Thanks man and ur killing it, keep up the awesome work big man!!!
Thanks Sean... Did you see that video of the Embraer 175, go off the Runway at O'hare? American Eagle Flight... Didn't see any Lift Dump on the Wings working there. Braking, put that plane in the grass. Lost control of steering.
It was an ERJ145 yesterday at ORD. In the video of it landing you can see the inboard spoilers were deployed. Looks like the ended up weather vaning with the cross wind rotating them off into the grass. Now a question for Sean. With a T-tail aircraft with rear mounted engines like the G4 and Hawker has that the TR's can blank out the rudder making steering control difficult on contaminated runway's. Is this a issue on the G4 or Hawker?
The TRs can have an affect on the rudder control. If you ever see a Gulfstream landing and they happen to heavily use the TRs, you will notice the vertical stabilizer shaking quite violently. The Gulfstream is very easy to maintain runway control as it has 8 degrees of nosewheel steering on the rudder pedals. The Hawker has no nosewheel steering from the rudders, so I tend to get my left hand to the tiller pretty fast in the Hawker. Also, I don't usually apply full TR in either plane unless I am on a very short runway, so rudder authority is a bit ore predictable.
Shaun, I have an aerodynamics question for you. So when flaps are deployed the camber increases, wing area increases (looks like single slot fowler type), the angle of attack increases giving more CL for a given speed. When activating the lift dump, where do the flaps start (40 degrees?) and does this mechanism effectively stall the wing by increasing the angle of attack beyond critical? Of course beyond a certain flap setting the increase is mostly drag and not lift. Is this just a high drag device or does it stall the wing?
When activating the lift dump, the flaps are starting at flaps 45. I haven't really thought about the concept of stalling the wing, but I would say this would be more of a drag additional device.
@@CorporatePilotLife Ah okay. Since you are not doing a full stall landing like in a single engine trainer I figure there is probably still some lift there.
It's pretty quick...probably less than a second. Keep in mind that we are starting out at flaps 45, so it just has to go the rest of the way to 75 or so.
Shawn, thanks for the video and how things work. The company u work for are they out of Fl as well or do u have to fly to there home base and go from there?
With a lift dump or a spoiler system. What your really doing is reducing lift so all the weight of the airplane is on the wheels for max braking capabilities. With out using these devices while on the landing roll, your airplane is not it’s actual weight.( because it’s still creating lift. ) Example: like trying to run in or stop forward movement in water. Your traction is just not the same.
Thanks Shaun for the up close and personal look at the aircraft, something I don’t get a chance to see every day, and great video quality, what camera did you shoot this video with?
This system is activated AFTER landing. Should someone accidentally use the lift dump system prior to touchdown, the landing would be so hard that you might call it a crash. A Gulfstream inadvertently used a similar system before touchdown several years ago and it came down so hard that the landing gear pushed through the wings...
Hiya Shaun!! That's some very cool tech Tuesday video!!! That flap is so close to the runway when its fully extended like that any little bump would seem like it could scrape. Amazing technology! As long as that Jackscrew is, how fast does it fully deploy when you pull the lever? Seems it would take a bit of time to unscrew to full length. Thanks for a great tech Tuesday!
Well I've never timed that deployment, but I would say less than a second. Keep in mind that we are starting out at flaps 45 on landing, so it's only going the remaining 30 degrees or so.
I enjoy your videos, great content. I only fly Cessna 172's but I'd be concerned if a system could change the lift capabilities so dramatically they wouldn't be able to deploy accidentally. Thanks again for your videos.
The ground spoiler is the part above and below the wing that sticks into the wind stream. The combination of that and the 75 degrees of flaps creates "lift dump"
Not a stupid question at all. Without lift dump, this plane would require significantly more runway to land. It's amazing how much drag that system provides. An aircraft that can land and stop on a short runway is more marketable to buyers.
Thanks for another interesting tech Tuesday. The leading slat on the flap (say that fast 3 times) reminds me the Zenith Air STOL leading edge wing slats. Which makes this a super cool Tech Tuesday because I don't remember seeing a leading edge slat on the flap on any other aircraft. Zenith STOL CH 750 with drooped leading-edge wing slats th-cam.com/video/rPwT6o9j-G8/w-d-xo.html
Shaun...hope I spelled your name right...but I just realized something. Dont get mad as I dont mean it as an insult, but do you have any idea how close you resemble Adam Schiff at the beginning of this video. I am going to post this on my YOU TUBE page and see if anyone else notices too...and I sure hope you ae NOT a Liberal.
Thank you for showing this and answering the comment questions.
I start training on Hawker in a month. I’m loving these videos. So helpful. Thank you
Thanks for sharing this. I worked on Hawkers for about 22 years. I haven’t seen one since 2013. It was fun to reminisce.
Again; a very cool explanation of what we’re looking out. I had no idea pilots knew so much engineering about a plane. I’ve been driving cars for fifty years but when I open the bonnet; I have no idea what the different parts are. Anyway, thanks for another great video.
LOL...thank you!
Love the videos. I know I guy that flys with you and stays great things. Cheers.
Great to hear...he must be lying if he's saying great things about me though. LOL
11-28-2021.. I had watched ECJ Flt 81 crash on TheFlightChannel, 1991 Hawker 800,
8 people died.. Tkx for this video, I can understand how important using this is...
I really appreciate these types of videos. I'm not a pilot and my major curiosity is basically about the mechanics.
Thanks for sharing.
I like em all Shaun. So whatever is next will be cool. Thanks
Thanks for another great and informative video!
Thanks Shaun for another excellent Tech Tuesday....All the things we never knew we were interested in until you started talking about it. Cheers from NZ.
Great vlog as always! The Fokker F-28 also did not have any TR. That worked fine on the 1600m rwys in Norway for over 20 yrs. I guess that it had the same weights as a G-IV. Fly safe my friend!
Another well done video. You should show the TKS system and how it works. And what a big mess it makes!!!!! Hated that stuff. Give me bleed air heated leading edges any day.
That's a great idea...thank you!
Another great Tech Tuesday video.
I just subscribed to your channel but been watching it for a while. You seem to be enthusiastic about the mechanical workings of a aircraft. I could see you when you are close to retirement in some hanger tinkering with that plane you just bought :)
That's exactly the plan!!
Great insight definitely love seeing the insight into the hangar! Actually the greater connection you corporate pilots have to your aircraft is what attracts me to being a corporate pilot! Keep up the hard work, its definitely appreciated!!
This was great, Shaun - been wondering about these for a while! Appreciate you crawling under the wing there for us, too. 👍🍻
I can imagine that works very well. When I used to work in industrial roofing, one gusty, windy day, I was carrying a thick 4'x8' section of "Polyiso" foam board, getting ready to lay it down on the deck - when I turned into the wind a certain way, I nearly went airborne! Air is super powerful I learned that day! I had to let go of it and let it go spiraling down to the parking lot below - luckily it was light enough to not cause any damage (and discipline for me!). We had a few sheets get airborne on their own from the deck, and broke in half over HVAC units or chimneys up there. A crazy day - one of many in that industry, lol! I understand clearly now how a 200k lb. fully loaded aircraft can fly, after a little 32 sq.ft. board nearly pulled all 150 lbs. of me off the roof! 😁
That's crazy! Glad to hear you didn't go for a ride...
@@CorporatePilotLife - Thanks, Shaun. Me too! I was pretty close to the edge there, too. Scary!
Great vlog Shaun!! That’s pretty cool how the lift dump system works, and even more impressive is that you don’t really need to use the TR’s. Didn’t even know some hawkers don’t have them!!! Thanks
Yep! I used to fly a Hawker 800 without TRs. It actually helped with takeoff and climb performance quite a bit.
Finally made total sense. 👍
Another great vid. I have come to enjoy the tech vids as much as the flight vids. Love seeing how the mechanical systems work.
Nice stuff, Shaun! Always enjoy these videos. It's amazing how robust these systems are.
That reminds me of the system they have on the B-2 Spirit, where the upper and lower control surfaces extend into the airflow on landing, presumably for the same purpose. Testament to how great of a force drag is at high speed. Pretty cool stuff, thanks Shaun!
Best part of my Tuesdays is when your Tech hits the wire!
Hey Shaun I have enjoyed your videos for a year now and glad to see you moving up the corporate ladder you have earned it. Tell us a little about this dude you fly with he is a total aviation geek. Does he ever just chill in the plane? He is constantly throwing out information and I could sense you were a little stressed in the last video flight. Be safe buddy and also thats a nice Corvette, get your dad in the video we would love to meet him too.
Thanks Shaun another great video this week.
Great knowledge, I feel like an aircraft mechanic after you Tech Tuesday!
The type rating for the hawker series is call HS-125 and covers several models, one of which, called a Hawker 700, I flew back in the day (30 some odd years ago!?!?). That air frame also used the flaps for landings and then they could be put in the "lift dump" position once the aircraft was down on the runway. At one point the chief pilot and I were returning to our base field empty and we decided to see how effectively the lift actually got "dumped" and decided to try some HEAVY BRAKING upon landing and being rolling down the runway after touchdown (we had no passengers on board and had great faith in the hydro-mechanical anti skid system (which BTW worked EXTREMELY well and reliably for such a simple-old technology--- NO electronics or sensors invoked- system!), so weren't worried at all that we might slide a tire. Well, once down we basically and very carefully STOOD ON the brakes and it was amazing how rapidly (almost terrifyingly!) the aircraft decelerated! Between the drag/weight on wheels created by the flaps now being in lift dump AND the weight being VERY firmly pressing the tires onto the runway, it worked amazingly well, stopping the aircraft very rapidly and causing absolutely no directional control issues---nice and straight! And yes, We did NOT have thrust reverersers for the very reasons they talk about in this video and we used to fly that thing into Miegs Field in Chicago where there was a very short runway in jet terms!! (only 3900 feet! For you younger folks---do a search on the web for Miegs field--VERY interesting!!)
I learn alot on tech Tuesday's. Good stuff!
Thanks 😊 I enjoy your videos.
Thanks, Shaun! Must take a while to know all the systems on the various jets you fly. Certainly not the typical "kick the tires...light the fires...and go" routine!!!
THANKS FOR ALL YOUR GREAT VIDS.
Great video Shaun, I wasn't aware of the lower spoiler. I'm sure you were happy to have reversers the other day at Republic's 5000 ft runway.
Cool info., keep them coming RW.
I think I have seen this message a lot before, but on a tech Tuesday could u do a tour of the inside of the Hawker and the Gulfstream in one video so that we could see the differences between the two in the inside?! Like the entire inside of the planes, where the guests would be! Thanks man and ur killing it, keep up the awesome work big man!!!
Good stuff, I love Tech Tuesdays!
Thanks again for the cool videos. Didn't know that about the thrust reversers.
Cool vid Shaun! Always looking forward to your vids!!! Fly safe! 😎
Great video always learn something on your tech video's
Thanks Sean... Did you see that video of the Embraer 175, go off the Runway at O'hare? American Eagle Flight... Didn't see any Lift Dump on the Wings working there. Braking, put that plane in the grass. Lost control of steering.
It was an ERJ145 yesterday at ORD. In the video of it landing you can see the inboard spoilers were deployed. Looks like the ended up weather vaning with the cross wind rotating them off into the grass.
Now a question for Sean. With a T-tail aircraft with rear mounted engines like the G4 and Hawker has that the TR's can blank out the rudder making steering control difficult on contaminated runway's. Is this a issue on the G4 or Hawker?
I did see that landing...glad to hear everyone was ok!
The TRs can have an affect on the rudder control. If you ever see a Gulfstream landing and they happen to heavily use the TRs, you will notice the vertical stabilizer shaking quite violently. The Gulfstream is very easy to maintain runway control as it has 8 degrees of nosewheel steering on the rudder pedals. The Hawker has no nosewheel steering from the rudders, so I tend to get my left hand to the tiller pretty fast in the Hawker. Also, I don't usually apply full TR in either plane unless I am on a very short runway, so rudder authority is a bit ore predictable.
Excellent Thank-you.
Cool stuff mate 🇬🇧
Thanks for another cool video. I can't imagine the stress on that flap..That thing is as big as a barn door !!!
yes indeed...
Love it Shaun, thanks!
I enjoyed watching your video while having lunch. Your video was tasty as usual.
Wow the mechanism itself takes up a big portion of the wings interior. So the leading edge of the wing back half way is fuel tank i am guessing
That is a correct statement.
Thanks for reply. These are great tech vids
Awsome Shaun Keep them coming !!! :)
Alway enjoy, thank you
Very informative. Does your company have any Hawker 750 in your fleet?
Shaun, I have an aerodynamics question for you. So when flaps are deployed the camber increases, wing area increases (looks like single slot fowler type), the angle of attack increases giving more CL for a given speed. When activating the lift dump, where do the flaps start (40 degrees?) and does this mechanism effectively stall the wing by increasing the angle of attack beyond critical? Of course beyond a certain flap setting the increase is mostly drag and not lift. Is this just a high drag device or does it stall the wing?
When activating the lift dump, the flaps are starting at flaps 45. I haven't really thought about the concept of stalling the wing, but I would say this would be more of a drag additional device.
@@CorporatePilotLife Ah okay. Since you are not doing a full stall landing like in a single engine trainer I figure there is probably still some lift there.
Hi Shaun, better than that only a drag chute. :-) Like the Space Shuttle.
Yeah...but I would still LOVE to go up in the shuttle!! LOL
Hi Shaun, Being a Jack screw system I was wondering how long it takes to completely deploy?
It's pretty quick...probably less than a second. Keep in mind that we are starting out at flaps 45, so it just has to go the rest of the way to 75 or so.
Do private jets go tru the same de-icing process before takeoff as commercial flights in colder areas?
Yes...we often use the same de-ice areas with the airlines as well
Shawn, thanks for the video and how things work. The company u work for are they out of Fl as well or do u have to fly to there home base and go from there?
We have a base in West Palm Beach, FL, so I fly out of there quite often
I wonder if the reason for working on the flap system was to install the temp hose assy..
I assume the lift dump is interlocked with the squat switch? Any other requirements to prevent inadvertent deployment?
Actually no...my understanding is that it could be deployed in flight. Pretty crazy
@@CorporatePilotLife So is it part of emergency descent procedures?
With a lift dump or a spoiler system. What your really doing is reducing lift so all the weight of the airplane is on the wheels for max braking capabilities.
With out using these devices while on the landing roll, your airplane is not it’s actual weight.( because it’s still creating lift. ) Example: like trying to run in or stop forward movement in water. Your traction is just not the same.
Like tech tuesday's. Thanks and LATER ! 😎👍
Thanks Shaun for the up close and personal look at the aircraft, something I don’t get a chance to see every day, and great video quality, what camera did you shoot this video with?
This one was with my Sony A7iii. I just got it a few months ago and am loving it!!
Pretty cool! Do you like flying the G4 or hawker?
I like both, but I will always be partial to the Gulfstream
Nice video
Could you show us the bleed air system and how that works?
I think I can make that happen. Thank you!
HEY SHAUN ! SO is that how you get the lift out of the wing so it will drop to the runway , the wing stops flying ??
This system is activated AFTER landing. Should someone accidentally use the lift dump system prior to touchdown, the landing would be so hard that you might call it a crash. A Gulfstream inadvertently used a similar system before touchdown several years ago and it came down so hard that the landing gear pushed through the wings...
@@CorporatePilotLife WOW ! NO SHIT ?? SO it kills lift after touch down and I guess is like a speed brake also ??
Shaun,
Does the Gulfstream have the same technology?
Cheers,
Rik Spector
The Gulfstream uses ground spoilers, but not the increased flaps after landing. The ground spoilers on the Gulfstream are MUCH larger though
Are they deployed on icey runways? with cross winds ?
Yes...they are always deployed on landing
As it deploys . Is there a change in the planes handling? Like if you were getting a runway cross wind.
I've never notice any major change in handling. Crosswinds will affect the airplane, but the lift dump just adds a TON of drag
Hiya Shaun!! That's some very cool tech Tuesday video!!! That flap is so close to the runway when its fully extended like that any little bump would seem like it could scrape. Amazing technology!
As long as that Jackscrew is, how fast does it fully deploy when you pull the lever? Seems it would take a bit of time to unscrew to full length. Thanks for a great tech Tuesday!
Well I've never timed that deployment, but I would say less than a second. Keep in mind that we are starting out at flaps 45 on landing, so it's only going the remaining 30 degrees or so.
@@CorporatePilotLife That's fast! Thanks!
I wonder if the Hawker P-40 used something like this to slow down.
Yeah that bottom spoiler really kills the airflow for the fowler flaps, that's why it probably works that well.
What is the max speed you can deploy the lift dump system ?
There's no speed restriction, but we have to be on the ground before deployment
I enjoy your videos, great content. I only fly Cessna 172's but I'd be concerned if a system could change the lift capabilities so dramatically they wouldn't be able to deploy accidentally. Thanks again for your videos.
Is this the same thing as a ground spoiler?
The ground spoiler is the part above and below the wing that sticks into the wind stream. The combination of that and the 75 degrees of flaps creates "lift dump"
Shawn, I'm not a pilot. Why is the Atis c temp so important?
The takeoff/landing speeds and runway requirements will change based on the temperature, so we always want to know this number.
@@CorporatePilotLife how much can it vary for a single pilot Preimer jet?
how about a video...cold and dark to start up including checklists
Slotted Flaps
Call me stupid - if you have air breaks, why a lift dump as well, is this to stop on a dime ;-) Great video!!!!
Not a stupid question at all. Without lift dump, this plane would require significantly more runway to land. It's amazing how much drag that system provides. An aircraft that can land and stop on a short runway is more marketable to buyers.
Thx, 777 pilot>>>>>>i
Thanks for another interesting tech Tuesday. The leading slat on the flap (say that fast 3 times) reminds me the Zenith Air STOL leading edge wing slats. Which makes this a super cool Tech Tuesday because I don't remember seeing a leading edge slat on the flap on any other aircraft.
Zenith STOL CH 750 with drooped leading-edge wing slats
th-cam.com/video/rPwT6o9j-G8/w-d-xo.html
👋🏻KSRQ☀️🌴🇺🇸🛩
Come here bcoz of Elmina Air Crashed Tragedy
Shaun...hope I spelled your name right...but I just realized something. Dont get mad as I dont mean it as an insult, but do you have any idea how close you resemble Adam Schiff at the beginning of this video. I am going to post this on my YOU TUBE page and see if anyone else notices too...and I sure hope you ae NOT a Liberal.
HAHA! I've never heard that before. Be sure to let me know if anyone else sees it. You got the spelling right on too.
Spoiler Alert!! Something gets dumped!! 😁
.