The Path to Discovering Your Talents and Passions, with Sir Ken Robinson | Big Think Mentor

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 มิ.ย. 2013
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ความคิดเห็น • 252

  • @Mahavishnu80
    @Mahavishnu80 11 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Youre truly free when what you do gives you everything you need, and when all other things don't matter in the slightest. i have little money but feel so rich because my talent rewards me more than money or anything else could.

  • @MegamiTenchi
    @MegamiTenchi 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    Love you, Ken! All the work you do is so wonderful, thank you!

  • @shashankrai8
    @shashankrai8 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I miss you, Sir Ken Robinson. Thank you for everything. . R.I.P

  • @08064819
    @08064819 9 ปีที่แล้ว +16

    Dear Ken, It's so true that I wonder why I never took the time to find out earlier in my life! I's when I moved to China on my 57 years old I discovered my real purpose in life! I started teaching little kids in China English. Well I didn't had much choice of doing what I did in Holland. So teaching English was one of the very few options! To my surprise It turned out to become my most wonderful job I ever had in life and even now I'm retired I keep on doing this. I now combine it with my other passions Music en Drama. I developed an almost holistic approach to help these kids develop the basic skill to communicate in English and express them self in so many ways. I wish Chinese state primary schools would develop more in the direction that you describe. There is so much suffering, wasting talents, stress and frustrating parents and kids, when will they ever learn? Anyway thanks for you wonderful lectures, ideas and work, it really helped me to become what I am now!

    • @bullseyekiller8909
      @bullseyekiller8909 6 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Great story sir :)

    • @ssnhillyard
      @ssnhillyard 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I go to China every year to train teachers to teach English through Drama! I also teach a global on-line course and have written a resource book for teachers to learn the startegies.
      www.eltsusanhillyard.com

  • @marcocresci
    @marcocresci 10 หลายเดือนก่อน

    So much wisdom in 3 minutes! We miss you!

  • @ajdakid
    @ajdakid 11 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Same here. Im in my late 30's and I am just now discovering a passion for something. It took me a long time to discover it and believe it or not, it was staring me in the face the whole time. For me, what helped the most is asking myself "honestly" a question. What do I enjoy doing whether I'm alone or with others? What would I enjoy doing day after day after day...for years? Then when I got to the root of that, I asked myself how can I get paid to do or be a part of that thing. Hope that helps

  • @bovachuck
    @bovachuck 11 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    good morning, awesome, spot on, when one has a passion we have the eyes of a child and the creativity of Leonardo

  • @WhereDidItRun
    @WhereDidItRun 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    There are always tasks which no-one ever wants to do. And always will be. Hoping that everyone can do what they like is rather naive, altough beautiful.

  • @HDLuff4Eva
    @HDLuff4Eva 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    I'm very happy with what I do. I identify very much with this "It's not what I do... it's who I am"

  • @pRopaaNS
    @pRopaaNS 10 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I think that what you are good at and what you want to do aren't the same thing. But regardless if it's easier to archieve something at sphere/work you're good at, but to get really good at something a passion is neccesary to push yourself beyond what normal person would do, which is why I think that what you really want is more important for when choosing your path than what you're good at.

  • @gadfly5805
    @gadfly5805 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thanks for giving me hope.

    • @esobeljaen1748
      @esobeljaen1748 ปีที่แล้ว

      I hope you found out what you wanted to do.

  • @R0DSTER
    @R0DSTER 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    three types of learning: being taught something, wanting to learn something and having the passion to discover something for yourself, there's a big difference between them. if you have a passion for something, you don't need money or guidance from anything that can't be found free. with a passion, you don't do it because you want to, you do it because you need to. think of all the famous that are not considered "smart", if you can find your passion and truly tap into it, that's all you need...

  • @VintageKimchi
    @VintageKimchi 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    If you haven't, watch Sir Ken Robinson's presentations at TED Talks. They're amazing.

  • @SkyHize
    @SkyHize 11 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    This is exactly the problem i've had my whole life, since high school i didn't even know what i wanted to do, i'm uninterested in almost everything and i can't find anything that could get me interested to invest time and work on it, like a specific work career, i've been feeling lost for more than 8 years and i still feel like this, i can't find a way out for this.

  • @ottawadigs
    @ottawadigs 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    I think a major hurdle for most people is that what they enjoy doing would not provide enough financially to shelter and feed their families.

  • @Rhytmicfoil
    @Rhytmicfoil 10 ปีที่แล้ว

    your a great man

  • @rustysnak
    @rustysnak 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    I try to maintain a work/life balance. I used to tell myself that I loved my job. Made the balance that I hated my life. Now, I have admitted that I hate my job, I can more easily love my life.

  • @Hijodeganas1
    @Hijodeganas1 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    The idea is that, as hksin basically said, to have something you are working towards. You don't get to do what you want to do RIGHT NOW just because it's your passion; you get to put in the necessary work/service beforehand in order to achieve it in the future.

  • @downey6666
    @downey6666 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    There is such a thing as a temperament (static baseline / personality ) from which everything is built off; but to mastery something your right, everything has to be developed even if your not aware of it.

  • @tuckerread8586
    @tuckerread8586 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    I partly agree, willingness can be taught. But also can be inherited. Every child in the world is born different with his/her special traits, but also some traits that aren't so great.

  • @eddytanjiacheng
    @eddytanjiacheng 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    Knew him since TED. Love this guy :D

  • @downey6666
    @downey6666 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    I Admire his insights a great deal.

  • @NawidN
    @NawidN 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    Aha, I understand now. Thanks for the explanation.

  • @NawidN
    @NawidN 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    I believe I have a hard time understanding the connection between the distribution of work and the flexibility of work, but I do agree with your main point. The specifics of how the work should be distributed exactly is up for debate, though, since "justly" is a relative concept.

  • @nkelly1432
    @nkelly1432 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    you don't develop talent, you have to be born with it, talent is a genetic gift

  • @jamezybwoy
    @jamezybwoy 10 ปีที่แล้ว

    I've been making music for about a year now and before that, there wasn't really anything I could see myself doing. Hopefully I'll be able to make a career out of it, even if it's only enough to get by that's enough for me. I think I really need to learn each scale and note by ear though because I can compose massive orchestral music in my head but I can never seem to get it out onto the computer... not an obstacle but I think it would make my music far better.

  • @gogothewind123
    @gogothewind123 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    1) There are people (I have met some of them) who genuenly love cleaning things and it is very much their 'thing'. 2) It's got nothing to do with positive thinking. It takes hard work and dedication to find something you love to do and then to stick with it through thick and thin. It is not easy and it requires sacrifices, like almost everything else in life. Most people are too lazy/jaded/pessimistic to even try.

  • @michaeladams3785
    @michaeladams3785 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    good point

  • @1aMattes
    @1aMattes 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    everything has a good reason you would understand if you knew. not knowing them makes us forget these reasons though exist. it takes a little practice but if you accept that, youll start seeing the world with different eyes.

  • @R0DSTER
    @R0DSTER 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    sorry to hear that...without my passion i'd be lost in life. however, i don't think it is that you "never had...", it's that you never realised and now it's been forgotten. the best way to go about it is thinking of something you like and always have liked to do ever since you can remember, if possible, all the way back since you were a kid. don't think of it for a job or a career, money can be made from anything you get good at. if that fails, trying many different things might be the only help

  • @VomicaEmanio
    @VomicaEmanio 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    I know very well what this guy's talking about because my parents have been saying the same things all my life.
    They are both economics and for reasons I cannot understand they truly like what they're doing. Me on the other hand, I haven't really found something like that yet. I'm studying a wide education in Information Technology right now and I feel like I'm on to something. I really hope that in 2 years when I have to chose my specialication/master that I'll have found out what I wish to do.

  • @wekrok
    @wekrok 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    AWESOME VIDEO

  • @nosapience
    @nosapience 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    Simple really, Sir Ken is one of my all time heroes!

  • @NawidN
    @NawidN 11 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    This is the kind of answer I've been waiting for! My point exactly.
    An increase in general flexibility is a good thing for the people, but too much of it would result in a fairly non-productive society. As of now, the unemployment rate is a major societal problem. With this in mind, I think we have a long way to go before we've reached "too much flexibility".
    Or am I mistaken?

  • @Algautr
    @Algautr 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    What is his book called that he refers to in the beginning of the video? I am interested in getting it.

  • @GENIUS4896
    @GENIUS4896 10 ปีที่แล้ว +19

    I still haven't find my passion watching your videos

    • @dongivenchy2907
      @dongivenchy2907 9 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      ***** I feel we all carry around traits which make us more capable of doing something more efficiently or effectively.

    • @msosa8537
      @msosa8537 7 ปีที่แล้ว

      Hahahahaha.

    • @bullseyekiller8909
      @bullseyekiller8909 6 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      You don’t need to have a talent in order to quit your job and do what you love. your current job might be paying you descent but what’s the use if it isn’t what you love? PS I have read his book and they aren’t bad if you want check out this old but great book “Rich Dad Poor Dad”. Cheers.

  • @MrConorWB
    @MrConorWB 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    What is the video called? I might of seen it, but just in case.

  • @manatualexandru
    @manatualexandru 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    I did the same thing.I was a janitor.Job didn't change too much...

  • @Kaaxe
    @Kaaxe 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    Exactly my problem, I mean this is what we are going to do for most of our life, and there are just so many interesting things in the world... Setteling for one thing only is the hardest choice ever.

  • @cybergrief
    @cybergrief 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    While I don't disagree with this line of thinking, there are some of us that have so many things they enjoy doing, they can't pick just one. On top of that, there are things I've enjoyed for 30 plus years that I no longer do much anymore. All this on top of having a job and commute which is soul crushing. You make the time 4 U.

  • @bautrey
    @bautrey 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    How did you go about changing from architecture to software engineer?

  • @zeldaofarel
    @zeldaofarel 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    I know what I have a talent for, but it doesn't make money. I only have myself to depend on, so I have to support myself. I have no choice, but to do what I can make enough money with to support myself.

  • @Ramezml
    @Ramezml 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    How much do I have to pay to watch the Big Think Mentor videos?

  • @B3nnub1rd
    @B3nnub1rd 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    Geez!! I come here to watch videos, but only end up checking more and more books out from the library!

  • @Synthmilk
    @Synthmilk 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    Presuming you are immediately successful in each new profession, then doing so is perfectly viable, if not, then you risk not earning enough money for a comfortable retirement, which is the primary motivator for sticking with one profession, over time your expertise can be used to make more and more money (under ideal circumstances).

  • @roothik
    @roothik 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    Concerning distribution of work and flexibility:
    My argument is that, theoretically, you could manage to distribute work to the whole population and reach full employment by reducing the average working hours.
    So, in principle, you distribute the same amount of work to a larger part of the population. Since this leads to less working time on average, work can become more flexible.
    This theory has of course some downsides. For example, reduced work comes with reduced wages.

  • @ThatGuyThai
    @ThatGuyThai 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    What I would love for an opportunity to sit down with these men and share their ideas and thinking and perhaps, listen long enough, question long enough, for them to ask me to share mine.

  • @TheaDragonSpirit
    @TheaDragonSpirit 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    Will this book help me if I want to start a business rather than get a job?

  • @MrGoatflakes
    @MrGoatflakes 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    Read the Sword of Truth novel series, particularly "The Faith of the Fallen".

  • @kacharechaitanya
    @kacharechaitanya 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    too good...

  • @jejo63660
    @jejo63660 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    I think one of the biggest problems though is that we need people who just tolerate their life for society to function. I think there are very few if any that want to flip burgers or be cashiers at a deep fundamental level. but if we lose those people a lot of society would be in disarray. Ideally everyone would be living their life fully optimized to their talents and interests but it's hard to imagine how society would be knowing how it is now.

  • @sabin97
    @sabin97 10 ปีที่แล้ว

    yeah, that too.

  • @Angelofdeth20
    @Angelofdeth20 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    best of luck to ya

  • @Raymetrious
    @Raymetrious 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    The solution is easy , 1) I can just walk away n leave everything behind but that's mean the ppl i cared for will suffer from certain ppl so this is not option able. 2) Learn to let go my anger n hatred which i'm trying my best in order to tolerate the situation ... though i'm still deeply pissed off by every crap this ridiculous ppl kept pulling

  • @neriumsuitedher
    @neriumsuitedher 11 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I doubt I'd find out what I want to do if I bought his book.

  • @TheTanitrovitz
    @TheTanitrovitz 10 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    me too... and I'm finishing my studies, face with a choice to make between so many uninteresting things

    • @bullseyekiller8909
      @bullseyekiller8909 6 ปีที่แล้ว

      Just do what u love. YOLO bro.

    • @Deliquescentinsight
      @Deliquescentinsight 6 ปีที่แล้ว

      Why did you choose the studies, who directed you to them? Have you managed to translate your choices 4 years ago into something you actually wanted to do?

  • @1dontknow99
    @1dontknow99 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    We is everyone who wanna do what they love, the others are people who want just a job andconcentrateon their hobbies or families.
    Robots could take care of some jobs of that kind but I would prefer not to. Because robots could do the repetitive task (i.e. boring) and we do the social and business stuff (like negotiation and opening your own business etc).
    AI (Artifical Intelligence) is developing fast and very mature so I personally have a optimistic view for the future.

  • @Tonbery0
    @Tonbery0 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    It was John B. Watson the one who said that, one of the fathers of behaviorism, the complete opposite of Freud's psychoanalysis.
    Look in every and each theraphy techquine or school of psychology theres a big deal of the will of the patient involved (first of all if he doesn't look for the theraphy nothing is going to happen). In the example Watson needs the will of the parents, no? I think this is more like a philosophical question but: is unwillingness a way to express our will aswell?

  • @Shitkidhtf
    @Shitkidhtf 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    This is why a society without money would be great. I could surely settle for working in a garbage truck, but I won't earn enough money that way.

  • @PirateKing1256
    @PirateKing1256 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    SAME!!!!!

  • @LivinInDaXone
    @LivinInDaXone 11 ปีที่แล้ว +13

    This video was pointless. Just promoting his book. This is more like an infomercial.

  • @lahony25
    @lahony25 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    Why isn't the whole Big Think Mentor serious available outside the US?

  • @sabin97
    @sabin97 10 ปีที่แล้ว

    i think a big part of what keeps people at jobs they disdain is "inertia". you're in your comfort zone, get a regular paycheck, you enjoy socializing with the people at work. work itself rots your soul because it wastes all your talents but you tolerate it...

  • @judeabualzeinat4482
    @judeabualzeinat4482 8 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Whats the name of the book?

    • @bullseyekiller8909
      @bullseyekiller8909 6 ปีที่แล้ว

      He has got many books. The one I read was “creative schools” it’s a good book if you don’t get bored haha.

  • @KingGongzilla
    @KingGongzilla 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    Man why is big think mentor not available in my country :((

  • @canatico8
    @canatico8 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    But they can enjoy certain activities much more than others and therefore have much more disposition in the work place. If people like what they do, it's a fact that they'll try harder and maybe at some point along the line they will be talented in that area that they enjoy.

  • @thegarbeen
    @thegarbeen 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    You may be in, what is called moratorium. Many people find themselves in this situation when they have not discovered a purpose, or, calling in their lives (careerwise or other), during a crucial stage of development, which is around the age of 18. Do not worry, search for that purpose, it is never to late to find your path. Try and picture who you would ideally like to be ? Once you have done this, you can begin taking steps towards being this person.

  • @WhatTheHEllFTW
    @WhatTheHEllFTW 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    I love art, should I make art studies to work in art or should I make a job that pays a lot so I'll be able to do art on my own later? This system sucks for those who have lots of possibilities...

  • @Hydorior
    @Hydorior 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    The title of the book is "Finding Your Element".

  • @roothik
    @roothik 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    I think if working hours would be reduced and work would be distributed (more) justly to the population, there would be not much unemployment. In addition, work would become more flexible and less stressfull.
    This of course would not work everywhere. For example, my homecountry Greece definitely needs to raise its productivity. But in many other european countries, i think, this could work well.

  • @R0DSTER
    @R0DSTER 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    that's exatcly what i mean. if you wasn't passionate enough about art to give it full focus over everything else, you would still have the same talent as if you were 2 (which wouldn't be a talent at all as an adult). being good at something early in life is not very significant and by no means necessary. it's the dedication you devote to it and how it drives you, that creates the talent for life that i'm talking about

  • @rith5
    @rith5 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    Go watch one of his many long talks or brilliant TED talk here on Utube.

  • @thomashicken1830
    @thomashicken1830 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    FYI, it was John Watson who said that, not Freud.

  • @strixloricatus5835
    @strixloricatus5835 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    Now I can definitely agree with that. You're right, you need to nurture your innate talents of they'll never grow.

  • @KokaneKhan
    @KokaneKhan 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    I personally know people who derive pleasure from cleaning things. Although they are slightly obsessive Compulsive in nature, they still enjoy it. Who knows, some people might have a passion for cleaning. And if they get paid for it, even better.

  • @Angelofdeth20
    @Angelofdeth20 10 ปีที่แล้ว

    I imagine scar saying it and it just fits

  • @Hijodeganas1
    @Hijodeganas1 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    It's essentially the same thing, except with this system it's direct support for a direct product.
    It is asking. You put it in a question form yourself. The point is you have a choice. You can continue with your self-entitled mindset (which is, in fact, greedy) and take their free content that they are still offering, or you have the OPTION of paying for more. It's a choice.
    I'm not sure what ads you're referring to, specifically.

  • @wardka
    @wardka 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    Unfortunately my day job seems to leave no energy, time or passion for the illustration career I once had. And one cannot simply quit at my age and expect to continue having badly needed health insurance and retirement. I hope his book addresses these issues.

  • @omgponies111
    @omgponies111 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    It sucks that I can't subscribe to mentor. I even tried throwing money at my screen but youtube just says it is not available in your country.

  • @WhatTheHEllFTW
    @WhatTheHEllFTW 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    David Glass, he talks about the middle-class people in his book. He give exemples of people doing what they love in an amateur way, while they have a job. But this is easier to make assumptions than reading a book...

  • @mites7
    @mites7 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    I totally cant do anything else than what I do either, its the only thing I can give 100% to

  • @Denkart
    @Denkart 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    Sure that's the problem for some people but not everyone. I'm talking about the people that are one missed paycheck away from being out on the streets. They don't have time to pursue hobbies or risk their jobs to make a hobby their life. For the people that do have time to pursue a hobby as a career, it still requires an obscene amount of luck in some cases. Music, for example, takes a ton of time to get good at and most likely won't reward you with any money unless you make a lucky break.

  • @pseudogenesis
    @pseudogenesis 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    Oh man, I'm so tempted to cough up the dough for this one. Sir Ken Robinson is a fantastic speaker, and a brilliant guy. I guess there's already enough free stuff out there he's done that paying for this is unnecessary unfortunately.

  • @phantomfangurl
    @phantomfangurl 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    This time I'm going to get my cutie mark for sure! :D

  • @Raymetrious
    @Raymetrious 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    That's how lol, lmao, swag, b4, omg, fyi, btw, etc is meant to simplify words which is very useful since youtube comment box got word limit. Unless u wanna spam lol.

  • @SuperEvansl
    @SuperEvansl 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    How do you stay competitive by jumping into different fields? You don't have the experiences as others by moving from different fields.

  • @hansbauer4755
    @hansbauer4755 10 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    BEcause we actually profit from the system, which is insane, thinking of the masses of people on whose shoulders we stand

  • @Sonyoooo3
    @Sonyoooo3 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    Can human live with normal gravity deep down below the moon that robot are going to drill and dig and build city within the moon etc.?

  • @DaTux91
    @DaTux91 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    I'm not too sure about that. There are loads of examples out there of siblings who grow up to be entirely different people. E.g. one might become a murderer, the other an industrial genius, the other an environment activist...
    Freud was very influential, but his ideas were (often) also wrong/incomplete. Education etc. most definitely play a huge role, but it would be a grave mistake to dismiss both the examples I referred to above *and* the whole field of genetics.

  • @TessaBain
    @TessaBain 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    I'm certain that people who are working to pay for that game subscription/console or that pool, or that vacation, or that awesome new car would be living much happier lives.
    Certainly sounds more fun than now when in essence they are just grinding away just to keep grinding.
    Unfortunately most of you go along with the current system, and thus it perpetuates itself.

  • @Adrian101882
    @Adrian101882 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    Can't tell you how many people I've met in their 60s and 70s at ateliers who've expressed deep regret for trading drawing/painting for a lucrative, non art-related career. Yes, one has to make a living for oneself, but don't kiss your dreams goodbye. Keep looking for ways to at the very least illustrate as a hobby. Trust me, I know about insurance issues - just shelled out nearly $300 to patch up a 1/4 inch laceration with dermabond. Don't give up the good fight!

  • @Psycherz
    @Psycherz 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    And all are worth watching. The first and last at least, was a little underwhelmed by the second.

  • @hermesngaiza7978
    @hermesngaiza7978 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    Same here, bro :(

  • @ArunKumarMalaysia
    @ArunKumarMalaysia 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    first !
    awesome video too :)

  • @IKilledMufasa5
    @IKilledMufasa5 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    How so?

  • @deathbyboobs
    @deathbyboobs 10 ปีที่แล้ว +10

    I want to be a human that evolves to type 3 civilization/Galactic being

  • @sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesh3349
    @sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesh3349 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    My voice is like lemmys voice From motorHead Dose that count

  • @Adrian101882
    @Adrian101882 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    My suggestion would be to find something practical that deals with art (ex. graphic design) or something that you'll at least be able tollerate so you can do what you want on the side, but by all means, don't shell out big bucks to go to an art school. Use the "system" to your advantage - use it to force yourself to develop the discipline to become the artist that you imagine yourself capable of becoming. Learn to pride yourself in this self imposed discipline, and you'll achieve a great deal.

  • @Psycherz
    @Psycherz 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    He's got 3. All on TED, all searchable if you type his name.

  • @vitalblast
    @vitalblast 11 ปีที่แล้ว

    Out of curiosity would you rather not know what your passion is, or know what it is but know that your unable to fulfill it due to various life restrictions? By that I mean would you rather not know, or know that you can never do it?