HUGE IMPROVEMENT! Coach Matt fixes my weak forehand topspin
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 ต.ค. 2024
- In this video, Matt Leete from Bribar Table Tennis gives me a simple tip which has transformed my forehand topspin.
During a filming session, back in June 2023, Matt identified a flaw with my forehand topspin technique, which was causing the shot to be slow and lacking spin.
Matt showed me a different way of hitting my forehand topspin, which I was able to pick up quite quickly. Since then my forehand topspin has got stronger and stronger.
Watch the video to find out Matt's simple tip and also see footage of my vastly improved forehand topspin destroying opponents in real matches.
In this video I am using JOOLA Dynaryz AGR: bribartt.co.uk...
If you need any table tennis equipment, I strongly recommend Bribar Table Tennis bribartt.co.uk...
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thanks for this tip, my weakwpoint is forehand topspin... i will watch this tomorrow again before training. more of this good content please sir!
I needed this, thanks Tom!
thanks tom, you released this at the perfect time, ive also been using my arm a lot more and was looking for a fix, will try the elbow snap tomorrow. cheers!
Very useful, thanks, keep it coming
I HAVE COMP TMR, i really needed this thankkk youu so muchh bro
It's true, I try too 💪🏻
Would love to see the technique with short pips on the forehand, please. Can you bring in a short or medium Pips forehand player? So many TH-cam videos on long pips backhand but not much on forehand short pips
This is a difference from European coaching and Chinese coaching. The Chinese style recommend a very relaxed arm. Use your body and hip rotation to propel the arm and elbow out from the body. The Chinese style lets the arm straighten somewhat too, as it is relaxed. Then the elbow stops moving somewhat and the arm whips through naturally without contracting the arm muscles. Some European coaches recommend contracting the arm muscles as in this video.
If you look at the top men pros, which method do they use?
If you are learning table tennis, I would recommend the Chinese method as it is much more relaxed with less chance of injury.
I don't agree, Chinese style is great when you practice 5 hours a day, are a professional and you don't mind your body is worn out at age 35 ;P. Risk of arm/shoulder injury may be smaller (like Timo Boll) but lots of Chinese players end up with back or knee problems (Ma Long, Zhang Jike, etc), because you're using the entire body so much. It's best to not move so much, like Samsonov!
@@aseq2 Have to disagree. No one reading this site trains the hours like the pros. Anyone can learn the Chinese style without being a pro. The legs are much stronger than the shoulder and arm muscles. A guy from my club had to give up table tennis due to a shoulder injury from not using his hips in his forehand in my club.
You also have to factor in age, physical limitations and playing standard. I'm 44. I have a dodgy knee. The straighter arm method requires more of everything - more movement, more rotation, more swing. Even if you do the stroke very relaxed, it is still physically very demanding. Realistically, this is beyond me and would only get harder with every passing year. Whereas I have found this shorter, whippier FH stroke much easier to do. It puts a lot less strain on my body. And for my level it is working well. So players should try out different methods and see what works best for their age, playing style and ability level.
Actively contracting the muscles to create a snappier elbow "whip" will lead to tennis-elbow quite rapidly, if you practice often (4-5 times a week lets say) and/or overdo the motion.
Your elbow will more naturally "whip" if you actually keep it loose and focus on leg work (left foot forward) and body rotation instead.to tennis-elbow quite rapidly, if you practice often, which is safer long term.
Honestly, if you train regularly with any kind of intensity your risk of injury massively increases with every part of your body - knees, hips, back, wrist, elbow, shoulder. That's why most pro players have various niggles they have to manage. You could equally say that if you do too much intensive footwork you will very rapidly get ankle, knee or hip injuries. Whatever part of the body you are working hard will be under more strain. But if you are training a couple of times per week, then this elbow snap is not going to cause any issues.
i am a forehand dominate player, this is the video i need
omg I started playing when I was about 15 or so, but I never received coaching or instruction, I just played a lot. I never learned how to properly spin the ball. I got pretty good I'd say, winning some small local tournaments, but it was just because I was playing A LOT and I was good at getting the ball on the table, and I had an aggressive flat hit that I had gotten pretty good at executing.
I stopped playing for pretty much my entire 20s, now in my 30s I've returning to the game, trying to learn to play it the right way, and I'm having so much trouble learning to loop, and I think this is the problem I have, I don't whip my arm properly enough. Like the acceleration is what my coach keeps telling me. I don't have conviction behind my shot. I just have this slow stroke or I end up accelerating AFTER I hit the ball. It's hard to internalize the habit and make it muscle memory.
I think so many looping videos don't explain this enough, where the spin off the ball is going to come from the rapid acceleration being made. But perhaps it's possible to create spin without accelerating rapidly... It's all so tricky to me.
When I started playing table tennis as an adult, I had no topspin stroke. All I could do was flat hit. It took me a long, long time to learn to brush the ball. And even then there wasn't much spin or speed. The stroke mechanics felt very strange. To be honest, it's probably only now - 15 years later - that I feel I can play the topspin stroke much better. So don't be too despondent. You are having to unlearn one habit (flat hitting) and create a new habit (topspin). This will take time and a lot of repetition. Keep trying to make small improvements and you will gradually get a faster and spinnier topspin.
How is Andro C53 compared to Joola AGR on FH for topspin. Any recommendation for BH rubber?
Unfortunately I have never played with Andro C53, so can't compare. But, of course, I am happy to recommend JOOLA Dynaryz AGR. I use it on both FH and BH.
The elbow "snaps" because the angular momentum of your forearm is greater than that of your upper arm - and your arm is loose. The angular momentum is there because of torso rotation and leg weight transfer."Snapping" it deliberately will lead to injury and it neglects the power coming from legs and torso.
On that topic, you do rotate your torso but you tend to fall back while doing it. Your weight is too often on your heels, your body upright and so even when making the rotating motion it often leads to you falling back or to the side.
Your best technique was against the robot. The regularity of the incoming ball allowed you to keep proper distance and remain oriented forward. I think your natural blocking style is the culprit. You are comfortable close to the table when blocking but with your body type and age it is too close for comfortably spinning randomly incoming balls.
All of which makes it quite remarkable that I am able to hit the ball at all! If only my opponent would give the perfect length ball every time (like the robot). The point I'm making here is that even if we aspire to perfect body positioning, we know it's really not possible all the time. And with my clumsy footwork, it's not possible a lot of the time. So having an imperfect, but very adaptable forehand topspin technique, is actually rather useful. A few people have mentioned this elbow snap will lead to injury. Maybe I'm missing something or I have just been lucky, but it really feels very comfortable and effortless to do.
@@TomLodziak I'm clumsier, heavier and more error prone than you are. But you are more relatable than Ma Long. I think that's one of your strong points as a TH-camr. It allows to make critical improvements to a deficient technique, which is the essence of this video. And these serve us, mortals to make similar adaptations. By the same token, we as viewers an fellow players/coaches should be allowed to give a dissenting opinion. Even though harsh, it was offered respectfully and up for debate.
Of course you can develop yourself as you see fit, and if the deliberate snap works for you, by all means. As a general piece of technical advice, I don't concur - as stated.
Absolutely. These interactions below the video are always interesting. And I appreciate the time people give to leaving feedback and suggestions. I sometimes get a little frustrated when people insist there is only one correct method. Today I've been watching some matches from the WTT Champions Montpellier and even at the pro level - the highest level possible - there is still much variety in how players do forehand topspins (or any stroke). Some use a straighter arm and more shoulder. Some have more elbow snap. Some follow through way more. Some are very concise with the follow through. Some clearly have more spin. Some drive through the ball more. There are so many possibilities. If a player can find a topspin technique which works for them - and it's consistent and effective at winning points - who is anyone to say the player is doing it wrong?
@@TomLodziak Fair enough.Timo Boll for example has almost no elbow snap. He starts with a bent arm, rather rigidly so. Still he has one of the most spinniest topspins in the world, thanks to his deep leg thrust and quick torso rotation. On the other hand Koki Niwa or his compatriot with the tomahawk, had little leg thrust but still a very quick body movement and resulting "snap". I wouldn't say a deliberate snap is a universal mistake but I'd rather teach the full kinetic chain than the end result of it.
@@TomLodziak Using the elbow snap does not lead to injury any more or less than any other technique. Injury comes from poor body maintenance. Not warming up, not warming down, not stretching etc. As long as the elbow snap is not forced and done in isolation. Also, I would add that grip is important. If you grip too hard and use the elbow snap you will damage your rotator cuff and get tennis elbow. So light grip until connection with the ball then firm grip. and use the forefinger to snap the wrist also. So, legs, hips, core, elbow, wrist. In that order.
Dear coach Tom, when you hit a forehand topspin your upper body seems to lean back.
Agreed. Sometimes there is a lack of balance!
My trainer asked me to close my arm at the 1st class. I used to open it more than you
I also instinctively lift my elbow up while hitting a topspin drive, to try and keep the ball low (getting the correct angle) but ive been told it's a bad habit, any fixes for that?
One thing you could try is starting with your bat 10cm higher. Then you will have natural angle to contact more towards the top of the ball and finish the stroke somewhere in front of your head. You'll feel less need to raise your elbow to get on top of the ball.
@@TomLodziak makes sense! will try it out later on, thanks a lot!
The grip needs to be adjusted as well. The first two fingers and thus the whole hand are too high up the bat.
Thanks for the tip. What do you think the benefit would be for my forehand stroke by having my hand lower down the handle?
@@TomLodziak Just by looking at the video mainly your index finger is pretty high up. That makes for less leverage and flexibility for your wrist movement.
And should I be using lots of wrist movement when doing a forehand topspin?
@@TomLodziak Well, it gives an extra snap, just like your elbow. Not lots needed, that was not what I was saying. Look at all higher level players where they put their index finger.
Sorry, I am getting a little confused now. Are you saying I don't need to use much wrist when playing FH topspin? Then surely it doesn't matter if my hand is a little high? Please clarify.
You should not focus on snapping the elbow. Instead, focus on the index finger and the thumb to rotate the racket, naturally leading to snapping your elbow. In other words, snapping your elbow results from rotating the racket with your fingers.
I have no idea what "focus on the index finger and the thumb to rotate the racket" means and how it leads to snapping your elbow.
I don't really understand this. Is there a video you could share which shows a visual demonstration?
@@TomLodziak Here is a video from a famous Chinese coach: th-cam.com/video/QrcmcFKWbok/w-d-xo.htmlsi=zz9LL5oW0MUFIx3v
He tried to correct the player from snapping the elbow to using the two fingers. At 0:57, he explained thinking of snapping the elbows would result in wrong technique. Right after, he demonstrated how to relax his hands and fingers and then grab and rotate the racket, leading to the elbow snapping. Sorry, I could only find the Chinese video.
Starting from 2:32, he also demonstrated the wrong and right techniques. The main message is that you should first relax the fingers and then intentionally engage your thumb and index finger, with your thumb pressing the racket and the index finger leading the racket to rotate. Then, the forearm follows and snaps naturally. This will give more spin and higher quality.
Ok, I think I understand now. It's an interesting concept, which I have not come across before. I'll experiment with this method when I next practice.
Surely you knew this already from watching back your previous videos? It's a very basic thing.
Ha! Well yes, the concept is very basic. And I probably thought I was doing it. But sometimes it needs to be pointed out by someone else and repeated many times for the simple advice to really sink in. Some players learn very quickly. Others, like myself, not so quick!
And then some will get tennis elbow, good luck!
I've actually had tennis elbow, but from my experience the cause was too much repetition of backhand strokes - backhand pushes, backhand flicks, backhand serves etc. The forehand wasn't the issue. But I guess different players may have different causes. This snapping forehand doesn't seem to strain my elbow at all.
@@TomLodziak That's right, tennis elbow comes from wrist movements typical of the backhand strokes, the forehand top often causes shoulder injuries.
@@TomLodziak I tried this elbow snap for a while and I was feeling there is a hint of tennis elbow getting in. Then I found from someone, if you don't have relax elbow like the pro's do, this can have you tennis elbow quickly. I see many amateurs around me having this tennis elbow. Very few, 1 or 2 max amateurs around me can hit backhand topspin. Still they developed this tennis elbow. Hence I think it's because of "non-supervised" use of elbow snap. I recommend for amateurs not push elbow too much but use shoulder+waist+leg a bit more instead, with elbow bent, with a small snap on contact, also a wrist snap too. In your action your waist and legs are not putting any help on your forehand , no offence.
No offence taken. As a 44-year-old with an arthritic knee, there's a limit to how much I can use my legs without causing injury. But we all do what we can with what we have. I agree that too much tension will cause injuries, not only to elbows, but to wrists and shoulders. It is very important to try and play relaxed.
@@TomLodziak Well said Tom ... People don't often realise that each person is different with different constraint and some of the shot they make are somehow optiomal according to their physical abilities. (I am suffering with totally damage hips but still play this game :) )
Hey tom, i have noticed it a lot but why are you so tense and stiff during any play, its like you're trying to make different components of movement like footwork and bat placement come together rather than it looking natural. And you don't use your core at all, nor the depth? Is it a medical condition?
Yes it's a medical condition. This explains all my physical faults.
Oooooooooooook@@TomLodziak