20yr USMC vet here. We dry fired and released the hammers onto the open receivers thousands of times. Would you see wear on the anodization in that area? Yes Mechanical or structural failure? Nope. These firearms are very well built to deal with the pressures and stress of actually firing a cartridge, dropping a hammer on the open receiver frame is slap n tickle.
Airborne infantry here, we did the same thing thousands upon thousands of times with no issues to the gun hammer or bolt catch. That's across the board. One of my drinking buddies was a armorer any bitched about stuff, never heard a peep about this.
Only a few components deal with the heat and the pressure. Certain parts are made to deal with certain forces and nothing else. The brilliancy of the armalite rifle is that most components don't have to deal with it. It can be made of softer and lighter materials and it is a marvel that it works so well while it is filled to the brim with tiny little parts in need of colorful vocabulary. Why the need to appeal as authority? Your argument can stand by itself. Just one time, one time I want to hear along the lines of: 'They made us do this/that to make sure something was audible verified, so that took precedence over minor damage on already abused firearms we didn't pay for.' What the lowest common denominator hears is: 'Come do as the military does! Out the door, line to the left, one crayon each.'
I believe you. But since an AR in my country costs the price of a motorcycle and replacement parts are basically inexistent, I’m not dropping that hammer on the lower for now. 😬
Steve drinking out of the Naruto Hello Kitty mug would normally be crazy, but then I realized he fought in the revolutionary war and it just makes sense. Such a respectable and cultured gentleman.
2011-17, we were told specifically NOT to dry fire a lower without the upper to avoid damaging the lower or the bolt catch. I had AR experience before the army so already didn't do it but it was reiterated in my basic training and at my unit.
1977 and I still remember our Drill Instructor screaming "Who did that?" at the sound of the hammer falling without the upper in place while cleaning our rifles. I still put my palm in front of the hammer when I drop the hammer.
You get what you pay for, and your equipment lasts as long as you take care of and maintain it to quote one of my favorite oldie singers, "It's up to you"
British army have a similar thing with the SA80. We were always told not to drip the hammer when the TMH was detached from the body. It was never really because it will break it, it was more because they didn’t want people getting used to doing it, because then it would eventually cause early wear on the parts over the entire armoury as well as the fact that squaddies being squaddies, they will forget that it’s dropped and they won’t be able to put the rifle together again.
I had a CATM guy flip out on a young airman for doing that saying it would ruin the weapon. The airman simply asked, "how?", and the look on the CATM instructor's face was evident that he had never questioned it for himself. 🤣
With the upper on though and the rifle assembled, completely different. And if your function checking before the rifle is assembled, you're kinda missing the entire point.
You can do those checks without the upper, just use you hand to control the hammer, very light pressure on the hammer to feel the sear release. I do those when installing a new trigger (except the burst/auto mode)
Funny that you brought up the military... I dont think ive ever dropped the hammer like that on my current personal AR, but that said, I absolutely remember everyone doing that in the army (including myself)...
I’m entirely with you on this. I have a lower on-par with Caleb’s, and I don’t think twice about accidentally dropping the hammer. There’s no possible way it hurts anything except OCD in the short term. But it feels wrong on a visceral level so I’d never do it on purpose or make it any sort of procedure.
In Boot Camp in 1985, I watched another recruit do that a couple times with the removed lower. About the 4th time the hammer went flying across the squad bay!
3 weeks ago I did this on a friend’s lower. I actually had the side of my thumb laid across to prevent a full hammer strike on the bolt catch but apparently my thumb wasn’t where I thought it was and the hammer did fully strike the bolt catch which did break right along the hinge. I did not bother to ask if it was a mil-spec part. I just gave him one of mine.
I recently purchased a K E Arms polymer lower that said in the included paperwork that doing this would void the lifetime warranty. Thanks for the video guys.
My grandfather always taught me "Dont cause unneeded stress on anything alive or not." So when it comes to guns, I use the same logic. Is dropping the hammer going to hurt anything? Probably not. But why cause unneeded stress and pressure? Same with dry firing. Why cause unneeded stress on something when you can just put a snap cap in and dry fire away?
@@Shadow__133 I hope you find the one my dude. My wife was the best thing to ever happen to me. just celebrated 28 years together. There's nothing more fun than shooting gun's with the love of your life. Lol
If it can take the stress of tens of thousands of PSI when firing, I just can't help but think that the few tens of pounds of force you put on it isn't much of a stressor. It's like taking the horseshoes off a Clydesdale because you don't want him weighed down while pulling out a stump. Trust me, he doesn't even notice those shoes.
I've been told my several gunsmiths, including one of the top 1911 custom pistolsmiths, not to drop the slide on an empty chamber. I apply this philosophy to all firearms because it always causes undue stress even if it does not break anything.
At 2:20 when Steve is talking about removing the ramrod & Calab speaks about the Civil War reminded me of some Civil War rifles recovered with up to 6 cartridges rammed into the barrel & unfired. Must not be so easy reloading under fire.
Most major battles had instances of this happening. I believe there were accounts of it happening at Waterloo and Borodino. When volley firing under stress you might not realize your rifle/musket misfired
I agree with what you guys said. Its unnecessary and undue wear and tear on the firearm, so I dont do it. Its hardened steel against aluminum, so not ideal, will it result in an immediate catastrophic failure? No. But, its not necessary or ideal as a regular practice. Thanks for the video. Ive had this discussion before with friends, and some agree and some dissent. I love a drop in the bucket on the correct side of the question.
Malding is a gamer term. "Mad+Balding." You get so frustrated over a game you get mad and pull your hair out. Usually, you get all worked up over something that isn't really a big deal, like dropping the hammer on your AR.
Good stuff, I tend to avoid dropping the hammer in said fashion. Was I advised to not drop the hammer? Nope, just never really thought about it, use my other manipulation digits to act as a buffer, mostly because the sound of the hammer strike had the appearance of the possibility of damage. That and what my trigger group cost lent itself to precautionary measures. Knowing that it doesn't damage anything is reassuring.
I love these videos. Fortunately I haven't done this particular thing, but was always curious. I have to imagine that my polymer lower would take the stresses differently, but that would be a whole other thing.
When my unit received our brand new M-4’s years ago to replace our late 80’s A2’s, we noticed how tight (or lack of excessive lateral movement) the new M-4’s bolt catches had in comparison to our old A2’s that have had the hammers dropped who knows how many hundreds of times. Did they still function with all that excessive free play? Of course. But we could clearly see the long-term results of the hammer’s overtravel being allowed to slam the bolt catch. It was also a wake-up call for many to feel the power of a fresh new hammer spring compared to the tired ones we’ve been working with.
I agree completely. I try not to drop slides on empty chambers in hand guns and I try not to drop hammers on AR lowers... I don't beat myself up if I do, but if the firearm is to such tight tolerance that those things upset its balance... The owner should never have allowed me near it in the first place.
When I was in we wouldn't just let it go, we would use our hand to "catch" it That being said, at most you may wear out your bolt catch a bit early, but and easy replacement part, so not that big a deal
As a mechanic by trade, my rule of thumb is the same with firearms as pretty much any other machine. If the manufacturer says it was designed to operate a certain way, such as dryfiring, then go for it. That being said, a disassembled gun is the very definition of "not as the manufacturer designed it to operate."
Here is where I need more clarification (keeping in mind that it’s been a long time since I’ve built an AR, and shopped for parts). I don’t think I have ever seen a cheap ‘lower parts kit’ described as anything other than “Mil-Spec”. Sure, I’ve always bought from American companies, but I also doubt that many of the “Mil-Spec” parts weren’t manufactured in China within the the manufacturing tolerances of “Mil-Spec”, at least on paper. After watching your previous smythbuster video for pistols, I have no problem dropping the slide on an empty chamber with my OEM handguns. But I have always been more concerned about my AR parts since cheap “Mil-Spec” lower parts kits seem to be the norm.
27 year USTAW (United States Tacticool Armchair Warrior) vet. After 14k deployments in COD, and doing this hundreds of thousands of times, I have yet to break a component!
Steve, you don't need to leave the ramrod in the bore if you force that ball down with a patch! you can take the ramrod out as soon as you're loaded! ;)
I was a 45B in the Army for 17 years (Small Arms Repair) and worked on thousands of M16s and never saw any damage that had to do with dropping the hammer in this manner,
Glad I'm not crazy. Remember field stripping mine for the first time and being terrified of messing anything up. Years later and I'm still cautious, trying actively to avoid getting "comfortable", but I'm not anxious. Love these videos!
I found this video very informative and useful! I've been shooting ARs for decades, and always believed that dropping the hammer on an empty AR chamber or (worse) a naked lower was a cardinal sin. Though I normally put the second joint of my offhand index finger in front of the hammer, I have accidentally gotten the "clank!" a few times, and considered myself graced thatI escaped damage THAT time. While I'll still avoid it, it's nice to know it's not such a big deal. Though I have noticed that some AR hammer pin holes get a little loose over time, so I wonder if when you drop the hammer on a naked lower (where the weight of the hammer is way above the impact point top edge of the lower) the kick-back on that couple hundredths of a square inch of receiver aluminum behind the hammer pin is a lot harder!
I don't drop the hammer as you demonstrated, but I had a bolt stop break on me while firing. After examining the bolt stop at the point of failure, I noticed (under magnafication) that the part had a minor void in the metal. I replaced the part and never had any other such failures.
I've found that among the cheap "milspec" triggers they might vary out of the box with different levels of polish but they feel the same after 1000 rounds of dryfire when the sear faces have "self polished" to the point they feel the same. I definitely catch the hammer with something soft if I'm going to force a new trigger to self polish.
Here's a historical reference for you. German MG42 manuals state not to drop the bolt on an empty chamber as this will cause damage to the barrel trunnion.
Every time I let my carpenter's hammer fall on my thumb I feel bad about it. I worked very briefly as an Armorers assistant (not my primary MOS of 0341 mortars) in my Marine Reserve unit in the 1970's and letting the hammer drop like you're showing was never talked about and was common practice. Like you say not a good idea but most likely not likely to break your rifle. Thanks for the discussion.
I've had three recivers come across my bench that the frame was damaged in said manor. Two DPMS and an Eagle Arms. Had to open the bolt catch slot back up. All were returned to working order but damage was obvious. One bolt catch was destroyed from being stuck partially open, others were usable. Enough smacks of hammer into aluminum will deform. Not sure if guns were 6061 or proper 7075. aluminum
I hold the opinion that if dropping firearm hammer on empty chambers or no uppers attached or whatever is enough to damage or throw it out of spec, then you probably also shouldn't ever fire it because its likely to become a grenade sooner rather than later
I treat it as a "best to avoid doing it repeatedly" item. I won't freak out if it happens, but making it a regular habit is not a good idea. Best to avoid potential problems, rather than tempt fate. While I was in the military, we were instructed not to do it, and that was 20 years ago. We did clear our rifles and dropped the hammer on an empty chamber, and would leave the hammer down when handing it over to the armorer. I know the AR platform is tough, the things I did with one during training is a testament to that, but that doesn't mean I am going to prove my personal AR is bomb proof by tossing it as hard as I can down range. My philosophy is to not stress over the old wives tales, but don't be dumb about things either.
the milspec rule is something that I think a lot of people think as "basic" and thus boring or barebones, but the truth is that a lot of companies will undercut milspec standards. Charging handles are notorious for being made with poor parts and have multiple failure points. There's a reason why the go-to, reliable names are more costly than the lowest available option. A firearm is the sum of it's parts, but if even a few of those parts are awful the entire gun can cease to function.
Just the look on Steve's face toward the end mentioning the 1911 slide dropping speaks volumes as to how sick he is of hearing some people complain about how it does damage. If they were that delicate, they wouldn't be usable. And that should be the end of the subject.
When I was in the Army, not once did I ever see any one drop the hammer with the upper and lower separated, so I don't know where you're getting that idea.
I was never in the Army because Israel can’t fool me to fight its wars, but I guarantee Steve caused visible damage to his lower on the web behind the bolt catch where the hammer hit it.
jus got out of an armorers course back in june, ease it forward or block it with your hand . . . around covid time a whole bunch of chicom parts hit the market and everyone bought them cause the end was coming, put them in their guns/weapons . . . there is 2 builds, a play gun and defensive weapon
I’m so tired of hearing people regurgitate how true mil spec is trash. I’m glad y’all cleared the air on this. Maybe do a video on mil spec components. The issue is know what’s actually mil spec. You see many companies advertising mil spec and half of the AR doesn’t meet the standard.
On the contrary, the milspec for AR-15's in particular is surprisingly strict. Very few AR manufacturers meet milspec, either in terms of the TDP or just pure quality control metrics. Obviously there *are* milspec items that are absolute trash, but that only really applies to things the military doesn't truly care about. Lots of personal equipment or comfort items for example. Secondary weapons, like the aftermarket locking blocks purchased for the M9. Not the primary weapon of the majority of men in the field, all the way from privates to the highest tiers of special operations.
Interesting point. I've come to think that mil spec in the actual military is very different from civilian mil spec.... i think the civilian version means more that the measurements are within spec.....not thay finishes, stress tolerances and non failure rates are "mil spec" So it seems anyway.
@@leewilkinson6372 The big issue IMO is that "milspec" as a term has become more analogous to the way "bandaid" is used to mean adhesive bandages or "ziploc" is used to refer to sealable sandwich bags. Milspec on the commercial market doesn't mean it's milspec- it means it's a part that shares form and function with the mil spec. That has no relevancy on whether it truly *complies* with that standard.
I think people forget what it was designed to do regularly, which is to smack the firing pin and then get slammed back into the trigger group by the bolt carrier. The spring exerts the same force on the hammer whether you drop it on the lower receiver or the firing pin, and so the hammer collides with a barrier with the same force every time. All that is to say is that it was made to stand up to repeated collision. Your hammer is gonna be fine if it was made right.
I will just add my own humble anecdote to this video. I dry fired like this once on a polymer lower, and absolutely cracked the lower in the rear of the magazine well. Now having said that,if memory serves me correctly, the bolt release was not installed, allowing the polymer wall to take all of the hammer's force. I could still use the lower after that, but man, I was unhappy. Fortunately, I only paid 40 bucks for the lower. So I would suggest as you gents have said, avoid it if you can; and definitely don't do it on a poly lower.
Thing about Mil-Spec is the same as an adage I've heard. "What do you call a person that passed medical school last in their class? ... You call them Doctor."
We had the bolt release oblong “paddle” break when a friend pulled the trigger of a lower assembly only before we could yell, don’t. It was CMMG and the parts kit was around $100
As a professional gun plumber when I was in the military, I knew that the damage done by this was minimal, but I'd also been in the field on exercises when guns would break and the repair shop was the tailgate of my CUCV and I didn't have all of the repair parts available. Will these practices damage your gun? No, not until you can least afford having your gun go down. Then these little things will catch up with you and your rifle will turn into 7 pounds of crap. That is Murphy's Law in action. So as an Instructor, I'll teach the myth that it can damage your rifle from just doing it a few times to keep it from becoming habit, because eventually, something will break and it will probably break when your life depends on it. Why run the risk if you don't have to? How much extra time does it take to lower the hammer lightly?
Steve Thank you for your service in the "Revolutionary War" You freed us from the Brits
LOL ! This is the best comment !
Caleb never actually said which side he fought on did he?
@@panzerabwerkanone You guys are killing me ! 🤣
🫣 🇬🇧
@@panzerabwerkanone The French
I always hold my hand over the hammer to break the fall if I'm testing trigger function without the upper attached to the lower. Great video
Same here
Ok pu c
Me too.
This is the way.
@@christophermitchell7925 this is the hway
20yr USMC vet here.
We dry fired and released the hammers onto the open receivers thousands of times.
Would you see wear on the anodization in that area? Yes
Mechanical or structural failure? Nope.
These firearms are very well built to deal with the pressures and stress of actually firing a cartridge, dropping a hammer on the open receiver frame is slap n tickle.
same 20 yrs 0369 ,,94-2014.. same same here.. only heard this after i retired and got into watching guntubers..
Airborne infantry here, we did the same thing thousands upon thousands of times with no issues to the gun hammer or bolt catch. That's across the board. One of my drinking buddies was a armorer any bitched about stuff, never heard a peep about this.
Only a few components deal with the heat and the pressure. Certain parts are made to deal with certain forces and nothing else. The brilliancy of the armalite rifle is that most components don't have to deal with it. It can be made of softer and lighter materials and it is a marvel that it works so well while it is filled to the brim with tiny little parts in need of colorful vocabulary. Why the need to appeal as authority? Your argument can stand by itself.
Just one time, one time I want to hear along the lines of:
'They made us do this/that to make sure something was audible verified, so that took precedence over minor damage on already abused firearms we didn't pay for.'
What the lowest common denominator hears is: 'Come do as the military does! Out the door, line to the left, one crayon each.'
I believe you. But since an AR in my country costs the price of a motorcycle and replacement parts are basically inexistent, I’m not dropping that hammer on the lower for now. 😬
The weapon cycling normally probably imparts a lot more force on the hammer than dropping it against the bolt catch.
Steve drinking out of the Naruto Hello Kitty mug would normally be crazy, but then I realized he fought in the revolutionary war and it just makes sense. Such a respectable and cultured gentleman.
Our drill sergeants “smoked” us so bad in basic training for doing that. I’m still afraid to do it to this day. And that was back in ‘91. 😂
'89 and yyyyuuup. Considering the condition of the rifles we had, I don't think thats a good example for them to use.
@@springbloom5940eh,everything still worked anyway
2011-17, we were told specifically NOT to dry fire a lower without the upper to avoid damaging the lower or the bolt catch. I had AR experience before the army so already didn't do it but it was reiterated in my basic training and at my unit.
1981. And I have not done it through 21 years military or on my own.
1977 and I still remember our Drill Instructor screaming "Who did that?" at the sound of the hammer falling without the upper in place while cleaning our rifles. I still put my palm in front of the hammer when I drop the hammer.
You get what you pay for, and your equipment lasts as long as you take care of and maintain it to quote one of my favorite oldie singers, "It's up to you"
Rick Nelson
The ' you get what you pay for ' is most certainly not always the case. Probably 50% of the time .
Love the video, but is no one going to talk about Steve's naruto/hello kitty mug?? Nice!!
It's a plant. 😂
I was going to make the same comment
He needs a Kalashnakitty mug!
🤣😂🤣
I was So expecting an explosion when Caleb dropped the hammer on his AR, ya'll missed an opportunity. 🤣
Wrong channel dude. This one has kitty coffee mugs, not a T.Rex. 😂
Well it's not 9mm so it's not explosive lung blowing ammo
Do it do it do it
At least you didn't hear a cat meowing...😂
i lost a lot of faith in Ayoob that day
@@PrestleyPlays Ayoob has been spouting boomer fuddlore since the 1990s at LEAST. and catching hell from it for just as long
2006 MCRD San Diego, M16A2, Delta Co, a Senior DI Browrowski. I broke a bolt hold open lever, dry Firing without and upper receiver on.
British army have a similar thing with the SA80. We were always told not to drip the hammer when the TMH was detached from the body.
It was never really because it will break it, it was more because they didn’t want people getting used to doing it, because then it would eventually cause early wear on the parts over the entire armoury as well as the fact that squaddies being squaddies, they will forget that it’s dropped and they won’t be able to put the rifle together again.
Steve and Caleb are brilliant. Can’t wait to see more!
...lmao !!!
So don’t do it on a regular basis, but as a rule if it happens from time to time, it’s not gonna blow your gun up (mostly) lol
I have accidentally done it but don’t make a habit of it. As usual, great video!
I had a CATM guy flip out on a young airman for doing that saying it would ruin the weapon. The airman simply asked, "how?", and the look on the CATM instructor's face was evident that he had never questioned it for himself. 🤣
In 1995, the function check for the M16 was dry firing it multiple times to verify the safety worked in safe, fire, and burst.
With the upper on though and the rifle assembled, completely different. And if your function checking before the rifle is assembled, you're kinda missing the entire point.
@@jacobnewman3797 That is true. Instead of the hammer smacking the bolt catch, it smacks the firing pin, as it normally would.
You can do those checks without the upper, just use you hand to control the hammer, very light pressure on the hammer to feel the sear release. I do those when installing a new trigger (except the burst/auto mode)
No shit @@RyanPeck-yt9ww
SOTAR busy videoing a rebuttal!
I was thinking the same thing. He probably has a broken bolt catch or lower in the bin of shame from someone doing this
He is busily pulling triggers, just to Justify the Myth!
@@chrissewell1608 😂😂😂
When there's a rant and Steve's old joke right away, you know it's smythbusting time.
You guys are great, thanks for the entertainment this morning!
Steves mug is fantastic.
Funny that you brought up the military... I dont think ive ever dropped the hammer like that on my current personal AR, but that said, I absolutely remember everyone doing that in the army (including myself)...
You almost got me there, not even worth it. “Love your videos, they teach so much”
Thank you for the business.
I’m entirely with you on this. I have a lower on-par with Caleb’s, and I don’t think twice about accidentally dropping the hammer. There’s no possible way it hurts anything except OCD in the short term. But it feels wrong on a visceral level so I’d never do it on purpose or make it any sort of procedure.
Army 1974,these M-16 s were tough
1:40
"Oh, nice"😂
he sounds so tired of his job lol
In Boot Camp in 1985, I watched another recruit do that a couple times with the removed lower. About the 4th time the hammer went flying across the squad bay!
Steve rocking the hello kitty Naruto mug. I did not expect this cross over for even one second.
3 weeks ago I did this on a friend’s lower. I actually had the side of my thumb laid across to prevent a full hammer strike on the bolt catch but apparently my thumb wasn’t where I thought it was and the hammer did fully strike the bolt catch which did break right along the hinge.
I did not bother to ask if it was a mil-spec part. I just gave him one of mine.
.....that's not what POS ar shit-buster says......lol
I was thinking about this very thing about 2 minutes before seeing this video pop up in my feed. Thank you, algorithm overlords.
I recently purchased a K E Arms polymer lower that said in the included paperwork that doing this would void the lifetime warranty. Thanks for the video guys.
My grandfather always taught me "Dont cause unneeded stress on anything alive or not." So when it comes to guns, I use the same logic. Is dropping the hammer going to hurt anything? Probably not. But why cause unneeded stress and pressure? Same with dry firing. Why cause unneeded stress on something when you can just put a snap cap in and dry fire away?
Bingo
Smart man. And maybe the reason I don't want to get married 😂
@@Shadow__133 I hope you find the one my dude. My wife was the best thing to ever happen to me. just celebrated 28 years together. There's nothing more fun than shooting gun's with the love of your life. Lol
@@mr.martyr8573 I hope so too. Until then... less stress for me.
If it can take the stress of tens of thousands of PSI when firing, I just can't help but think that the few tens of pounds of force you put on it isn't much of a stressor. It's like taking the horseshoes off a Clydesdale because you don't want him weighed down while pulling out a stump. Trust me, he doesn't even notice those shoes.
I've been told my several gunsmiths, including one of the top 1911 custom pistolsmiths, not to drop the slide on an empty chamber. I apply this philosophy to all firearms because it always causes undue stress even if it does not break anything.
At 2:20 when Steve is talking about removing the ramrod & Calab speaks about the Civil War reminded me of some Civil War rifles recovered with up to 6 cartridges rammed into the barrel & unfired. Must not be so easy reloading under fire.
Most major battles had instances of this happening. I believe there were accounts of it happening at Waterloo and Borodino. When volley firing under stress you might not realize your rifle/musket misfired
I agree with what you guys said. Its unnecessary and undue wear and tear on the firearm, so I dont do it. Its hardened steel against aluminum, so not ideal, will it result in an immediate catastrophic failure? No. But, its not necessary or ideal as a regular practice. Thanks for the video. Ive had this discussion before with friends, and some agree and some dissent. I love a drop in the bucket on the correct side of the question.
These are always helpful
“So you’re possibly damaging 2 things”
*Oh. Nice.*
😂😂❤️
And here I was thinking this was only a problem with polymer or printed lowers. Great video. Short and to the point.
Brilliant information my guys
4:48 he sold that line - for one second I thought they'd captured literally the only time it'd ever been a problem on film
Thanks for the tip.Still not gonna do it, but if it happens accidentally, I'll feel better about it. Thanks Guys!
I LOVE the Hello Kitty coffee cup!
Reminds me of the Kalashni-Kitty T Shirts.
I dont know what "malding" is either.
Steve with the hello kitty mug.
Malding is a gamer term. "Mad+Balding."
You get so frustrated over a game you get mad and pull your hair out.
Usually, you get all worked up over something that isn't really a big deal, like dropping the hammer on your AR.
It feels like a long time since the last SmythBusters.
Good stuff, I tend to avoid dropping the hammer in said fashion. Was I advised to not drop the hammer? Nope, just never really thought about it, use my other manipulation digits to act as a buffer, mostly because the sound of the hammer strike had the appearance of the possibility of damage. That and what my trigger group cost lent itself to precautionary measures. Knowing that it doesn't damage anything is reassuring.
Hit the nail on the head with his every private in the military comment. It was the first thing I thought of at the start of the video.
Love the intro! Perfect!😂👍👍👍👊
Thanks for the info, I have been paranoid about dropping the hammer against the lower.
I love these videos. Fortunately I haven't done this particular thing, but was always curious. I have to imagine that my polymer lower would take the stresses differently, but that would be a whole other thing.
Love this series! Maybe should add an addendum on how to drop the hammer on the bolt catch without letting it smash it with full spring tension?
When my unit received our brand new M-4’s years ago to replace our late 80’s A2’s, we noticed how tight (or lack of excessive lateral movement) the new M-4’s bolt catches had in comparison to our old A2’s that have had the hammers dropped who knows how many hundreds of times. Did they still function with all that excessive free play? Of course. But we could clearly see the long-term results of the hammer’s overtravel being allowed to slam the bolt catch. It was also a wake-up call for many to feel the power of a fresh new hammer spring compared to the tired ones we’ve been working with.
You two are really amazing ! Please keep on doing this content.
Doing this is literally in the DA TMs for the M4
So is "don't line up your gas rings".
I agree completely. I try not to drop slides on empty chambers in hand guns and I try not to drop hammers on AR lowers... I don't beat myself up if I do, but if the firearm is to such tight tolerance that those things upset its balance... The owner should never have allowed me near it in the first place.
When I was in we wouldn't just let it go, we would use our hand to "catch" it
That being said, at most you may wear out your bolt catch a bit early, but and easy replacement part, so not that big a deal
As a mechanic by trade, my rule of thumb is the same with firearms as pretty much any other machine. If the manufacturer says it was designed to operate a certain way, such as dryfiring, then go for it. That being said, a disassembled gun is the very definition of "not as the manufacturer designed it to operate."
Here is where I need more clarification (keeping in mind that it’s been a long time since I’ve built an AR, and shopped for parts). I don’t think I have ever seen a cheap ‘lower parts kit’ described as anything other than “Mil-Spec”. Sure, I’ve always bought from American companies, but I also doubt that many of the “Mil-Spec” parts weren’t manufactured in China within the the manufacturing
tolerances of “Mil-Spec”, at least on paper. After watching your previous smythbuster video for pistols, I have no problem dropping the slide on an empty chamber with my OEM handguns. But I have always been more concerned about my AR parts since cheap “Mil-Spec” lower parts kits seem to be the norm.
27 year USTAW (United States Tacticool Armchair Warrior) vet.
After 14k deployments in COD, and doing this hundreds of thousands of times, I have yet to break a component!
Steve, you don't need to leave the ramrod in the bore if you force that ball down with a patch! you can take the ramrod out as soon as you're loaded! ;)
I was a 45B in the Army for 17 years (Small Arms Repair) and worked on thousands of M16s and never saw any damage that had to do with dropping the hammer in this manner,
true mil-spec components are tough, common civilian MIM parts are the ones that will often break.
Glad I'm not crazy. Remember field stripping mine for the first time and being terrified of messing anything up. Years later and I'm still cautious, trying actively to avoid getting "comfortable", but I'm not anxious. Love these videos!
I found this video very informative and useful! I've been shooting ARs for decades, and always believed that dropping the hammer on an empty AR chamber or (worse) a naked lower was a cardinal sin. Though I normally put the second joint of my offhand index finger in front of the hammer, I have accidentally gotten the "clank!" a few times, and considered myself graced thatI escaped damage THAT time. While I'll still avoid it, it's nice to know it's not such a big deal. Though I have noticed that some AR hammer pin holes get a little loose over time, so I wonder if when you drop the hammer on a naked lower (where the weight of the hammer is way above the impact point top edge of the lower) the kick-back on that couple hundredths of a square inch of receiver aluminum behind the hammer pin is a lot harder!
Steve with hello kitty/naruto cup 💀 i love you guys
I don't drop the hammer as you demonstrated, but I had a bolt stop break on me while firing.
After examining the bolt stop at the point of failure, I noticed (under magnafication) that the part had a minor void in the metal.
I replaced the part and never had any other such failures.
Good info and done it once and figured not the best practice.
Steve still doesn’t get us kids with our new fangled barrel rifling. He’s a smooth bore cowboy.
There is a urethane buffer that is made to insert into the lower for just such a purpose, and I believe Brownells sells it.
It's a three piece kit and costs $63. I'll just hold the hammer back like I normally do. I saw it at Midway.
Great stuff as always, gents! 👍🏻
I've found that among the cheap "milspec" triggers they might vary out of the box with different levels of polish but they feel the same after 1000 rounds of dryfire when the sear faces have "self polished" to the point they feel the same. I definitely catch the hammer with something soft if I'm going to force a new trigger to self polish.
Great info. I still won't do it, but I won't worry about telling others to not do it.
Brownells is my favourite store for parts , cheap delivery right to canada! Thankyou so much!
Here's a historical reference for you. German MG42 manuals state not to drop the bolt on an empty chamber as this will cause damage to the barrel trunnion.
That's open bolt, wayyyyyy different.
Every time I let my carpenter's hammer fall on my thumb I feel bad about it.
I worked very briefly as an Armorers assistant (not my primary MOS of 0341 mortars) in my Marine Reserve unit in the 1970's and letting the hammer drop like you're showing was never talked about and was common practice. Like you say not a good idea but most likely not likely to break your rifle.
Thanks for the discussion.
You guys rock. It's for the algorithm. Wanna see more.
Is that a Naruto hello kitty mug? Nice lmao.
Steve should get in a fist fight with Larry Potterfield, also why is is steve using a naruto hello kitty coffee cup?
Mister Potterfield creeps me out.
I've had three recivers come across my bench that the frame was damaged in said manor. Two DPMS and an Eagle Arms. Had to open the bolt catch slot back up. All were returned to working order but damage was obvious. One bolt catch was destroyed from being stuck partially open, others were usable. Enough smacks of hammer into aluminum will deform. Not sure if guns were 6061 or proper 7075. aluminum
What are the odds I was looking this up and you guys posted this 10 days ago😂
I hold the opinion that if dropping firearm hammer on empty chambers or no uppers attached or whatever is enough to damage or throw it out of spec, then you probably also shouldn't ever fire it because its likely to become a grenade sooner rather than later
I treat it as a "best to avoid doing it repeatedly" item. I won't freak out if it happens, but making it a regular habit is not a good idea. Best to avoid potential problems, rather than tempt fate.
While I was in the military, we were instructed not to do it, and that was 20 years ago.
We did clear our rifles and dropped the hammer on an empty chamber, and would leave the hammer down when handing it over to the armorer.
I know the AR platform is tough, the things I did with one during training is a testament to that, but that doesn't mean I am going to prove my personal AR is bomb proof by tossing it as hard as I can down range.
My philosophy is to not stress over the old wives tales, but don't be dumb about things either.
Finally can point my buddy, who admonished me over this subject, to this video. "You'll crack the lower doing that!" No, I won't.
the milspec rule is something that I think a lot of people think as "basic" and thus boring or barebones, but the truth is that a lot of companies will undercut milspec standards. Charging handles are notorious for being made with poor parts and have multiple failure points. There's a reason why the go-to, reliable names are more costly than the lowest available option. A firearm is the sum of it's parts, but if even a few of those parts are awful the entire gun can cease to function.
You got me at ramrod. You guys are hilarious! 😂
Just the look on Steve's face toward the end mentioning the 1911 slide dropping speaks volumes as to how sick he is of hearing some people complain about how it does damage.
If they were that delicate, they wouldn't be usable. And that should be the end of the subject.
Thanks for the info! Great shirt, Caleb - where can I get one?
When I was in the Army, not once did I ever see any one drop the hammer with the upper and lower separated, so I don't know where you're getting that idea.
Not sure when you were in but from 2001-2013 everybody did it and it never hurt anything
@@brandonbowman5915 i'm not saying it hurts anything. I noticed different units do things differently, so it could've been specific to my unit.
@@brandonbowman5915
It happened all the time in the late ‘80s. Some soldiers did it when cleaning, others didn’t but it was never taboo.
I was never in the Army because Israel can’t fool me to fight its wars, but I guarantee Steve caused visible damage to his lower on the web behind the bolt catch where the hammer hit it.
Brownells have some really cool coffee mugs in the retail store. You should have them. You too could be really cool.
Admiring that cup, Steve!
jus got out of an armorers course back in june, ease it forward or block it with your hand . . . around covid time a whole bunch of chicom parts hit the market and everyone bought them cause the end was coming, put them in their guns/weapons . . . there is 2 builds, a play gun and defensive weapon
My boy has that perfect Lego hair
I’m so tired of hearing people regurgitate how true mil spec is trash. I’m glad y’all cleared the air on this. Maybe do a video on mil spec components.
The issue is know what’s actually mil spec. You see many companies advertising mil spec and half of the AR doesn’t meet the standard.
On the contrary, the milspec for AR-15's in particular is surprisingly strict. Very few AR manufacturers meet milspec, either in terms of the TDP or just pure quality control metrics. Obviously there *are* milspec items that are absolute trash, but that only really applies to things the military doesn't truly care about. Lots of personal equipment or comfort items for example. Secondary weapons, like the aftermarket locking blocks purchased for the M9. Not the primary weapon of the majority of men in the field, all the way from privates to the highest tiers of special operations.
Interesting point. I've come to think that mil spec in the actual military is very different from civilian mil spec.... i think the civilian version means more that the measurements are within spec.....not thay finishes, stress tolerances and non failure rates are "mil spec"
So it seems anyway.
@@leewilkinson6372 The big issue IMO is that "milspec" as a term has become more analogous to the way "bandaid" is used to mean adhesive bandages or "ziploc" is used to refer to sealable sandwich bags. Milspec on the commercial market doesn't mean it's milspec- it means it's a part that shares form and function with the mil spec. That has no relevancy on whether it truly *complies* with that standard.
@@KeterMalkuth true enough!
It's so funny when Caleb is MALDING.
You guys make a good team… 🤙🏽
I think people forget what it was designed to do regularly, which is to smack the firing pin and then get slammed back into the trigger group by the bolt carrier. The spring exerts the same force on the hammer whether you drop it on the lower receiver or the firing pin, and so the hammer collides with a barrier with the same force every time.
All that is to say is that it was made to stand up to repeated collision. Your hammer is gonna be fine if it was made right.
I will just add my own humble anecdote to this video.
I dry fired like this once on a polymer lower, and absolutely cracked the lower in the rear of the magazine well. Now having said that,if memory serves me correctly, the bolt release was not installed, allowing the polymer wall to take all of the hammer's force.
I could still use the lower after that, but man, I was unhappy. Fortunately, I only paid 40 bucks for the lower.
So I would suggest as you gents have said, avoid it if you can; and definitely don't do it on a poly lower.
Well one thing is you don't use plastic lowers like this one.
Thing about Mil-Spec is the same as an adage I've heard.
"What do you call a person that passed medical school last in their class? ... You call them Doctor."
We had the bolt release oblong “paddle” break when a friend pulled the trigger of a lower assembly only before we could yell, don’t. It was CMMG and the parts kit was around $100
The bolt slamming into it on the last shot isn't a light force I feel like it was probably a bad part if it failed from doing it one time
You guys are Great!
All goes back to "Just cuz you can, doesn't mean you should" 🤠👍
As a professional gun plumber when I was in the military, I knew that the damage done by this was minimal, but I'd also been in the field on exercises when guns would break and the repair shop was the tailgate of my CUCV and I didn't have all of the repair parts available. Will these practices damage your gun? No, not until you can least afford having your gun go down. Then these little things will catch up with you and your rifle will turn into 7 pounds of crap. That is Murphy's Law in action. So as an Instructor, I'll teach the myth that it can damage your rifle from just doing it a few times to keep it from becoming habit, because eventually, something will break and it will probably break when your life depends on it. Why run the risk if you don't have to? How much extra time does it take to lower the hammer lightly?
7 pounds of crap? just replace whatever part broke. I would agree with lowering the hammer lightly if working oil into the springs.
CUCV was a great vehicle. I really liked them.
@@hoatzen7887 When you're in a combat situation and don't have a replacement part it does become a piece of crap unless you do a bayonet charge lol