Comparing prints with and without Input Shaper on the Mk4
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 พ.ค. 2024
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A few comments:
- I find that for big flat objects like that I use glue stick for the corners. It really helps for me.
- You can do "something in the middle" by just reducing the speed of the "input shaping" profile.
- I agree with others, for prints like this you might want to try moving to a 0.6 nozzle.
Sounds good. Thank you!
Whenever you’re printing, something that’s utilizing the entire bed, you have a greater chance of warping. Best to use the XL or build an enclosure. You should run a few calibration prints and make sure your build isn’t the issue. Then troubleshoot the slice and or file itself. I’ve seen a few prints that I have done come out bad like that and just opened it up in Fusion and saved it again. Sliced it again and no issues.
I’ve seen that same first layer failure before. It’s usually been a dirty bed or a partially clogged nozzle from questionable filament.
Ok thanks so much!
Between normal and SPEED you will find STRUCTURAL, this slows things down a bit to ensure better fit of engineering parts.
Yea. When you need it to look nice or print strong, it's recommended to use Structural.
So is structural IS still faster than a regular profile? I probably have it set at speed. Os it a different profile or a different setting within IS? I only remember seeing one. Thanks!
I would use a .6 nozzle and 100% infill to reduce print time. When you have anything less than 100% infill, the tool head does more movements to make the infill and walls whereas 100% infills it just straight lines creating walls thus reducing the printing time. Also, with a higher nozzle size the model is way stronger.
Not only a bigger nozzle, but printing the object in vase mode with a very big nozzle (you could use a 1.2mm nozzle with oversqeezing to a 2mm linewidth). Than print a template to cut out the windows afterwards with a rotating knife (like a pizza slicer, but much smaler. warm up the knife and/or the plastc a bit to avoid shattering and layer seperation). Would be a much faster print and with just two windows = 8 straight lines to cut in postprocessing it would not be a big deal to do. the only part there the object isn't just a simple box is the skirting board. So this had to be printed seperatly and to be glued in afterwards.
On objects being basicly big boxes, always think about using vase mode and printing templates for the cutouts and seperated objects for details. Esp. if printing multiple times, as it can reduce printing time by a lot. Also such horizontal artifacts were windows starts and ends can not happen, if you cut them afterwards.
Using a big nozzle and high extrusion width also means the printhead moves very slowly due to the limited volumetric flow. Wich avoids artifacts due to resonances from the beginning, so you do not even need input shaper to compensate.
While I can understand 3d printing anything is quite a temptation, the 3d printer is just one tool in the toolbox. Do not only depent on this, but always think about combining different methods.
Also: Even with PLA you can print inside an enclosure. The ambient temperature matters for overhangs (you can not cool them fast enough if the air is to hot) and possible heatcreep on retractions. But in vase mode you do not have retractions and if you cut the windows afterwards also no overhangs. So printing with PLA and 40...50°C chamber temperature in an enclosure would definitly work and avoid warping.
I would've never thought 100 infill would be faster but I'll look at it. And yes a larger nozzle etc sounds like a good idea. I just jump around a lot so I try to minimize changing it too many parts. Thanks!
@@tada3dprinting 100% infill is model dependent. In your case, its just a simple box that's just purging lines back and forth so 100% infill would make sense in this case.
It would be interesting to see how these print on the XL. As others have mentioned ever PLA will warp when it is that large of a surface, an enclosure might help
Def an enclosure for these. Only way to go honestly. I wouldn't want any printer without the enclosure. Helps a lot.
The XL is busy printing an even larger roombox. I really wish these came with enclosures. I may need to look into them. Thanks!
I saw that you used another USB-Stick for the right printer when it was working. I had troubles in the past with bad USB-Sticks so that might be the issue. P.S. Thanks for the Video, still waiting for my MK4
Yes I think I just need to get fresh usbs. Some of these have either thr MK4 or the Mini Firmware on them and I think that may be the problem. Sorry you're still waiting. Is this your first printer? Thanks!
@@tada3dprinting I have a anycubic printer at home and some ender 3 at work. Lately I'm having a lot of troubles with my anycubic that's why I'm looking forward to the mk4 and I'm hoping it will be as reliable as everyone is talking about.
The Prusa are sensible to speed races and they go crazy 😂
Yeah you never know what you'll get
I think your flash drive could have been the problem on the none input shaping MK4. as far as the Coners go, I use glue stick and it holds them in place.
Yes I think you're right. Thanks!
I've seen similar issues with the heavy lines you saw along where your door edge was. I'm not sure if it's input shaper going too fast or if it's something else. I need to test it out and compare. I've definitely gone back to the previous firmware for some of my prints because the quality is better. And I don't mind the time. I don't need super fast for anything I'm doing.
Yeah if you can't use the print, it doesn't matter how fast it is. Thanks!
I feel like these walls would be a great candidate for a laser cutter. Would save massive amounts of time and look better.
I used to glue plywood boxes but had trouble getting them to be clean and not break in shipping. It takes a bit to print but I like how smooth the edges are. (Usually) Thanks!
It looks like the input-shaped print is suffering from underextrusion, like it can't keep up with how fast it is trying to print. You could slow it down a little, increase the print temperature a bit, use a larger nozzle, or a higher-flow nozzle like the Bondtech CHT if speed is still the most important thing.
There might also be some resonance issues with how the texture changes around the cutouts. I don't know how Prusa addresses this issue, but Klipper is capable of measuring (either via accelerometer or via calibration prints) resonances and can then compensate for them by changing the acceleration curves to stop resonances from building up. Klipper is pretty amazing, TBH, and its input shaper seems much more sophisticated. It is quite good at ensuring that square corners are actually square and don't develop a weird extra cylindrical protrusion.
Thank you
I am using the latest firmware and I have run into that "freeze" after pressing the print button several times. A new thing for my printer is that as of yesterday, it is having trouble with the bed leveling on the right side of the printer. When it is doing a 49 point bed level it will have to retry the right two columns two or three times for each spot. Previously it would usually only have to retry once or twice over the whole 49 points. No idea what changed.
That Input Shaper box did not look so good. I have only used it once so far and it turned out nice. The print was about as smooth as the .20 quality speed. What layer height and quality settings did you have your printers set to?
Yeah I was hoping with it being a stable version, that it wouldn't have so many issues. But I'm having it with all of my printers so I think it's actually the USB. The bed leveling seems very odd! I usually use .2 either speed or quality on the MK4s. Thanks!
Just wanted to know, what did you spray on the print bed at 3:46?
99% isp alcohol to make sure none of the oils from my fingers are left on the print bed. Thanks!
Can't you use an option to print right from computer vs having to physically use the menu/buttons on the printer? Did you try on the XL? Curious if that would do better. You get input shaper on that yet?
I have had trouble setting up the wifi for the MK4 but I do think the USBs are what I'm having trouble with. The XL is busy printing something else but maybe I'll put it next in line. No IS on the XL yet. Thanks!
This video is very interesting, because just recently I was printing full build plate boxes on A1 mini with 0.6mm nozzle and they warped no matter what I did. Not much, but they did. I tried different cooling setting, changed speed, even did some pauses from time to time to cool printed part to minimize material stress. Then I printed the same model on my old Ender 3 Pro :) with glass build plate and spray adhesive and it ended up perfectly flat. Model can be removed from glass only after it cooled down completely, otherwise the model brakes before detaches from bed. I am wondering if you found a way to print it flat.
It actually is printing really nice in my Bambu. I think the enclosure helps just enough. But I do have to make sure the print bed is very clean of course. Thanks!
I'm surprised it still warped with the brims, but I haven't really printed anything this large and square before. I just unpacked my MK4 the other day, set it up last night, and did a test print from the included USB. Used to my Ender 3 V2 and clones, I was shocked by how quickly the MK4 printed.
Oh good to hear! Thanks!
I would try painting on the supports to have spaces or gaps between them instead of solid. I found that the printing can bridge small gaps and you also have an easier time removing supports. Also a draft shield could help along with the bridge (at least a few layers) to hold heat and keep warping from happening.
Thank you
@@tada3dprintingAnother thing to try is print the first layer hotter (extruder AND build plate) then drop the temps on both for the rest of the print. I have tried that on a few prints and it worked out a bit better. Started at 60c and then dropped to 55 or even 50c for the rest of the print. Just enough to be sure it doesn't release..
Very interesting. I wonder how the print would compare to same print on a printer with encloser, such as the bambu or qidi. Or perhaps try the XL (with it's individualy heated bed segments), to see if those printers prevent warp on the first layer or have overall more constant print quality
She uses PLA. The ambient temperature inside an enclosure can result in heatcreep for retractions. However, you are totally right, as there is no info about room temperature in the video. For PLA ambiant temperatures above 35°C can cause problems with heatcreep or cooling on overhangs (depending on the printer).
So if the ambient temperature is maybe 20 or 25°C, "a bit" of enclosure might help (on my Qidi I for example open the door just a bit and put the top cover rotated by 45° on - so the heat exchange is reduced a bit, but not stopped)
My XL is busy printing a larger version. And my Bambu is busy printing multicolor. But I do want to try this. Maybe I can get it going on the Qidi. Thanks!
@tada Did you see better quality out of your old mk3? Curious.
On some things yes. I find the MK4 warps a lot. I assume it's a speed thing. But I LOVE the Z sensor on the MK4. I usually run a print on the MK4 and if it sucks, I try it again on the MK3. Thanks!
@@tada3dprinting I am so hoping that i just teething issues with the new firmware that will get figured out soon! :)
I was about to buy a raspberry and the acelerometer for my old ender but much videos show that doesn't really help that much all this setup . but its quite interesting for sure
I have issues with the new frimware if the printer powers off it comes on tells me the filament not loaded when it is. I have to tell it to load the filament does that process then red screen about input shpen displays press enter it goes back to the screen to choose the print again after starting that it works great. I not reached out to support yet about the issue been busy. I think there is still issues and this needs to be looked at as this is not a stable release
Same. But I am thinking mine is that I have a MINI firmware on the USB. If not, I may roll them back. Thanks
I think when the filament snapped it missed steps or something. If it were me I would have cleaned the nozzle and homed the axis before starting the next print.
My experience has been the opposite of yours. The prints I've made since using input shaping are the best I've ever had. This is comparing to the MK3 and the MK4 pre input shaping.
Out of curiosity did you select speed or structural in Prusa slicer?
I'll have to look which I have. Probably speed. Do you print a lot of boring square things like me? Thanks!
@@tada3dprinting All different shapes, lots of curves. I was honestly surprised how well it prints. I had some initial concerns because with the stuff I print, quality and accuracy are more important than speed. I have been using the structural profile as the base for speeds as it's still substantially faster.
Small intricate parts that don't have much cooling time I have not had good success with using input shaping. I'm sure it's because the layers aren't fully cooled before the next one is put down. Those small intricate parts I'm printing with the standard non input shaping profile.
I'll also note that I primarily print petg inside an enclosure. The brand of filament seems to influence the final result. I've been using Hatchbox and for petg I haven't found anything that prints as well yet.
The Nextruder on these printers has been making the nicest PETG prints I've ever made.
As others have written, I would take the structural profile. It is the best compromise between speed and optics and strength. A 0.6 nozzle is certainly also appropriate. To improve the warping, you could reduce the speed of the first layer. Also be careful when using IPA before printing. May actually reduce adhesion. Better to clean with dishwashing liquid, the hard side of a kitchen sponge and lukewarm water.
And one more tip if the printer is bitching. Do not reset but better switch off the power briefly.
Ok thanks so much!
I don't have any insight on the cranky printer, but updating the firmware maybe worthwhile.
Is there a draught perhaps exaggerating the warping? Maybe cardboard walls around the printers would help. 🤷♂️
Yeah I don't have the Input Shaping on the right printer. Might be time to upgrade it. It's possible that the AC is not helping. Thanks!
Could be the USB stick
I think you're right. Thanks
The rough wobbly surface is undetrextrusion. 6:44
Thank you!
Edit I think the z probe offset is smooshed too close into the bed. I think you’ve got an extrusion issue perhaps something is broken in the extruder or a spring needs more tension.
Thank you!
i would love input shaper but have a mk3 , my longest print so far was 6 days :-)
You might try klipper. You could install it on an old PC, just to test it. Also an USB accelerometer for input shaping cost less than $10. So nothing to stop you to try input shaping on a mk3(s(+)).
Actually I just got my mk4 upgrade kit today. I will try it the next days. However, I have 5 mk3(s(+)) and doing the upgrade on all of them would be quite costly. So after getting the mk4 ready, I plan to upgrade the other mk3(s(+)) to klipper.
As it always is possible to change back to original firmware, this should be a risk-free move.
I might do an upgrade for the z-axis to 10mm rod afterwards, as this makes the printer more sturdy. Also I already modified most of my mk3(s(+)) to Revo; I might end up needing some RevoHF nozzles if printing faster.
6 days would make me nervous! I haven't broken 2. Thanks!
@@oleurgast730 you have been more experimental than me. Ive always liked the out the box feel of prusa, but saying that i also built mine as a kit. so to get more info on this can you suggest any websites/videos?
I believe Watchdog is the new thermal model on the Prusa printers and it monitors temps to ensure that if the printer is putting power in that the temp changes as expected. It is sensitive enough that you have to select whether your nozzle has a silicone sock or not. I think it is triggering because the bed it wet from the alcohol making the bed temp not change the way it expects. Try cleaning the bed before starting the print and see if that addresses the issue.
That might be the case. Cleaning the bed while it is cold is the recommended way to clean it per the 3D Printing Handbook that comes with the printer. It also notes that cleaning it while cold gives the alcohol more time to clean. The bed should be cleaned before starting the print, rather than after.
Good to know. Thanks!
what are these room boxes for?
Dolls
I make miniature dollhouses and furniture. I have a store on Etsy called MyLilVillage
Thanks!
Could it be the flash drive?
Yeah I think it is. I'm going to order all new. I seem to be having this issues a lot lately
What are the dimensions of the box ?
9-1/4 inches wide x 8 inches tall. Almost completely the bed width. Thanks!
@@tada3dprinting I see on etsy that you also sell larger ones. Then how do you print those 1 whole if this is like the same as the buildplate
Is this 1:12 scale ?
My prints have been ok the last few days. But sometimes it’s just a lot of weirdness. It doesn’t feel like they quite finished this printer, sadly.
Yeah. Or maybe the firmware is still buggy. Thanks!
Greetings, i mean the issue was the usb stick. I have verry bad experiance with sticks like yours you use in there first prints. The Quality of the Stick ist essential.
Yeah I agree. Need to just get some fresh ones. Thanks!
With the price of an mk4, I got 3 Elegoo Neptune 4 and one Elegoo Neptune 4 max the later will arrive next week. they are reliable and print fast and and clean. thanks for the video.
Glad you got what you like. Thanks!
Bad idea to spray on the bed! Better on a wip or on the bedsheet away fron the printer. You spry also on the printer parts and it removes the oil on the rods :-(
That's true. I need to be more careful. Thanks!
make another with your bambu and compare, I would definitely sell the prusas for more bambus ;D
I should. I wonder if the enclosure would help with the slight warping. Thanks!
You could also try "3dlac" for super good adheason, way better than glue and it doesnt leave any markings on the plate or print @@tada3dprinting
Sorry, you clearly have no idea what is input shaping is.
Get bambu p1s. Cheaper and 100 times better out of the box. Mine has warped 0 times and very few fails.
I do have a Carbon. I'll try this. Thanks!
If you're going to do this in the future, use a color other than white. It doesn't come through on videos well at all.
She produces these for selling on etsy. Making videos is just a very nice side effect.
I love theese videos showing something actually been used afterwards (even if I am not into dolls).
Also I love she uses a realistic white for the walls instead a disneylike pink ;-)
But you are right, if the primary goal would be producing videos instead producing objects to be sold, other colour would be nice. Maybe someone likes to buy a puppet room in pink...
I probably will make these in other colors in the future too. Thanks so much!