I mean their asking them to pay for what they MIGHT use now what they ARE using… thats the difference they imagine if you had to pay utilities based on how much you MIGHT use your ac or water instead of much you DID use… probably not a great system lol
@@chris135xdo you know the definition of the word socialism? Roads are socialist because I don't have to pay directly to drive on them same with police and fire departments and Airports. The definition of socialism is political and economic theory that advocates for public ownership of property and natural resources, rather than private ownership. As far as I can tell they are both private companies.
@@macmadoodle1347 Its very odd that you are going up to bat for a megacorp that wants to expand their operation, dump the cost on tax payers and then flee to a tax haven
They want to reap all the benefits from taxpayer-funded infrastructure, but put in little investment into the public, refuse to pay their fair share, and won't make a financial commitment to something they're asking governments to spend resources on for their benefit.
@@chris135x You do realize they literally do all that? Not well because all the fucking corps have multi-layer tax avoidance schemes and as such the government doesn't get basically any money out of it.
@@neko6 In some ways yes. My neighbors paid 10K per pole to get power on their property. That's full payment of the grid infrastructure they're requiring up front.
@Justin73791but thats not what this is, they arent paying for the grid, they are being asked to pay 90% of the ower they think theyll use upfront, thats fucking ridiculous, paying upfronts fine but almost the entire bill before you so much as use an outlet that month is crazy
@@daltronius They aren't paying 90% of their bill upfront just because. They're paying that amount because the power company needs to build new electrical infrastructure just for the data center. So yes, the data center is being asked to pay for the grid expansion. The specific mechanism by which they shall pay is a 10 year commitment to continue to buy power at certain volumes, to ensure the power company is not left hanging with an expanded grid and no customer should the data center leave.
@@georgebrantley776 theres many different ways to achieve this, by upping prices, or contracts to not leave and the like, this isnt the only way to achieve this and i personally disagree with this method. They should def pay for the renovations and such, but just cause they should pay doesn't mean any way you try to make them is fine.
I actually think the best solution is for tech companies to provide their own power infrastructure. It wasn't unusual for other industrial businesses to generate their own power. Data centers, are not commercial call centers, they are an industrial level use of computing, but unlike metalworks companies, tech companies don't have a natural coal burning steam electric generators on site, converting the waste heat into electricity. Having them handle most of their power need is the best way to prevent the costs of their needs being put on other consumers including all the residents of Ohio. If they quit using that power themselves, they can work out a deal to sell it to the utility company.
Yeah that’s a great solution… If it were up to nearly all of these technology companies, they’d have access to small modular molten salt reactors by now. That is it’s a great solution until legislators, who don’t know how crucial DC’s are, start rallying against that prospect for climate/other reasons meanwhile our companies are continuously outplayed strategically by eastern counterparts
I think this will be the long-term solution. Microsoft recently bought out part of Three Mile Island to power a data center, and Amazon did the same for another nuclear plant. Big issue is building a new nuclear site is really difficult.
The hilarious thing is that companies like Amazon are already desperately greedy to own as much of the economy as is possible, and power generation is kinda an obvious step for them. Actually, scratch that. The hilarious part is that their own greed for maximum profit has prevented them from building out their own power-generating capacity (even though they've continued to grow at rates which would justify such a big investment) because it's easier to just leech off public infrastructure.
Said tech companies are also still promising to be carbon neutral or carbon negative (which I see as total BS) in like 10 to 20ish years. With the massive power cost of cloud and large scale generative language models, they'll have to do something massive and can't really keep relying on third party companies.
@@nathanaelpras Yeah, that’s the thing. They’re asking for an increase in capacity that is 5x bigger than what Ohio needs. If they don’t pay up front or the AI bubble bursts then the residents will be left paying for something they don’t need and can’t use.
This has all the vibes of the baseball team that got a city to build them a stadium saying that they would move there... Only to back out after it was done to move elsewhere leaving the city with the entire bill. If big tech wants a massive investment in infrastructure to power something that they think will be the future, they should have no problem with committing to 20 years.
@@chris135x why wouldn't they pay their power bill? They are just being asked to put a commitment down on paper that they will pay for their power usage projections for 10 years. They are demanding that the government build the infrastructure to accommodate their extremely high power usage, infrastructure that will cost a lot of money in the short run. The government just wants to make sure that it will be able to recover their expenses and not be left with an expensive bill and infrastructure that is not needed. It would be crazy to not get some assurance beforehand. 10 years seems like a very short time to ask for in my opinion. The company can afford it.
@@chris135xbecause they're demanding Ohio to invest time and resources building more power grids. Ohio wants to make sure the tech company doesn't back out and leave Ohio with a bunch of useless extra power grids. 10 years is also a pretty short time to be using power grids that were built with taxpayer dollars just for you.
The average citizen is expected to have months of emergency savings Big companies would rather give their shareholders another yacht than being financially responsible
@@chris135x Yep. Because it's not socialist at all to ask a local government to pay billions in up front costs to benefit your private business, instead of asking the shareholders and investors to do it.
This is why a tax code that allows big companies to pay little or no taxes (and some even get a “rebate”) need to be taxed like the rest of us. They use and wear out resources that belong to all of us like power grids, internet access, and roads. As it is now, they use and we pay.
You didn't pay attention, did you? This isn't a tax issue, this is the government wanting the companies to pre pay for the power they will use in the future. Basically pay now for something you will get later. Given the scale of the expansion of the grid that will be needed to supply them, it is a fair request. But utility costs are not a tax.
Everything is all about unrestricted capitalism and "let the free market decide" until something they want isn't immediately available for "it's not really being utilized much right now, so go ahead and help yourself." Then the folks who crow endlessly about bootstraps suddenly _love_ government assistance.
Truth, brother! Can't wait until the bootstrap generation is gone, maybe then we can get around to fixing everything they let fall into ruin so they could pad their paycheck and retirement.
This is why you have corporativists and libertarians as opposites. Libertarianism is opposed to corporate welfare while also knowing well free market rules, it embraces competition and need to push innovation. Corporativism is just buyed out competition and no need to push innovation because we've completely dominated the market anyway.
As someone who had to see a failed infrastructure investment (Foxconn in WI) I can say that a company needs to pay for dedicated infrastructure construction and capacity. Otherwise every single person using that same electric company and the same municipality just get shafted. After years a data center is finally being built. It uses the same connections that were already built, and similar levels of power and water off the Grid as a cellphone factory.
@@chris135x Ma'am, I guarantee how taxes are used has nothing to do with rich people not paying their share in taxes. But you do seem to be an active little Betty Bot.
@@hikarikouno It also powers Russian propaganda bots. From my perspective even a homeless man would be more useful than AI. Pretty much any human can beat AI at thinking when it comes to resource-effectiveness. The only indisputably good use of AI that I have heard of is medicine development and big-data analysis, besides that it feels like they only replace humans in jobs that humans are better at.
@@ryansreaction that's the whole reason Ohio can't *afford* to lose this fight. If the tech companies don't put down the upfront investment for their needs and decide to leave later or cancel their expansion plans for another reason, the residents are going to be stuck with the bill for expanding infrastructure that will never be used.
@@chris135x Having to build more power grid only so these companies can use it but then potentially being stuck with more grid that they need and a huge bill to pay for it if the companies leave
@@chris135x Potentially spending billions of dollars on higher grid capacity, when the AI bubble may burst and all those data centers may shut down next week. They want to ensure that the power plants that are being built for the benefit of big tech will be paid for by big tech.
@fatboy158 which all makes absolute and perfect sense to me. If something only exists to service you and your demand. Ensuring that service is used, is at a minimum the reasonable thing the government should and could do.
It makes sense that AI companies are unwilling to pay anything. They hand out their products basically *for free* and their data centres costs _fortunes_ to just keep running. It's a failing business model. The only reason they haven't disappeared yet is because they're research companies that live off grants. So when they can no longer keep the hype going, most AI stuff will just stop existing.
Not exactly how it works. They hand out their products to consumers for free but charge is you want to use the technology for business purposes. ChatGPT is one example, ChatGPT itself is free, but if you want to implement it into your product you use the OpenAI api which has significant fees
As a resident of Newark Ohio (30 mins from here new intel plant) they should have to pay more. The amount money they will make is bananas and this money AEP is asking for is Pennie’s to them
They don't want to pay 90% of their expected usage over the next 10 years because then they would have to admit they know this AI shit is going to burst in like 2 years.
HaHa! Like that Ever Happens. I have NEVER seen a SINGLE Employee offer to give back part of their paycheck when a company has a loss. The owners/Shareholders Eat It. But the Same Employees have their hand out when there is a Profit.
@@Pipping-Hot they werent talking about the employees but the tax payers who end up eating the bill when one of these corps take a hit because of their own greed and short sightedness
@@Pipping-Hotemployees are hired to do a job, thats why you are supposed to pay them even in negative periods. Your comment would be valid if big tech was not firing people and reducing personnel during PROFIT years. Companies dont share the success, so employess are not held accountable for failure
@@Pipping-Hot Well yes they don't offer to give back, the employees are forced to give back 100% of their pay check when they're let go. So of course naturally during a profitable year, employees are forced to do the exact same thing to make those profits look bigger.
It would be interesting to see big companies realize we don't need their products to survive sure the products help but last I checked some of these companies are just corrupt beyond repair
It's also clear they know that AI is going to be a way less than ten year bubble, and it's OBVIOUS they just want to cash out on it without commiting to anything. Literally just a tax payer backed money grab when you think about it.
@@inksdayif you are building something that requires multiple new power plants to be built, you need to finance at least a significant portion of the cost as well as guarantee that you will be staying there for long enough to pay off the rest of that bill.
As someone studying electrical engineering specializing in renewable energy and energy transitioning this is a huge issue! Energy consumption is increasing extremely fast and not just in the US. A big part of our studies is around finding short and long term solutions for energy production and power distribution. While balancing that with cost, social and political dilemas.
@@chris135xyou're so incredibly dense to have written this comment. Your thought: The internet requires electricity so why don't people complain about Internet companies using electricity and just these AI focused companies. is this a well fleshed out argument and supported with any data? no. Routers and Internet infrastructure require very little power (in comparison) and most importantly they aren't going to need to be hooked up to a substation like a factory or data center would be. Not to mention just how much power these data centers would need. FERC estimates the total load on our grid will increase between 40-120% over the next 50 years (that's not a typo the range is that unknown). The existing grid does not even have the required reliability to support all customers and desperately needs investment in more transmission to fill the reliability holes in the grid. FERCs order 1920 addresses these problems and outlines a process for nationwide utilities to get their infrastructure up. The bigger issue is that data centers doing these behind the meter deals to get power from a grid that isn't even built out to support all HUMANS crosses a line that hasn't been crossed before. Corporations getting first pass tickets to deals and resources that primarily would've gone to customers. Utilities have to pay people to build these things and these companies want the government to subsidize their costs (via taxpayer money). Maybe google the power ratings of an Internet tower compared to a data center before you spew on bs online. - an electrical infrastructure engineer
@@chris135x The internet is already up and running, all current energy consumption is taken into account. The grid however does not support the massive expansion these tech companies want to make. But because expanding the Grid just to cater to a bunch of companies that would up and move if they got a better deal elsewhere is expensive, they're expecting the companies to invest their own money into such projects as the residents and general usage does not need these additions. Now it is typically the "powers that be"' that manages such expansions. But where their obligation to provide power starts and ends is not properly codified.
@@tysej4 And if the electrical grid isn't sufficient enough, what makes you think this plan from the electricity company is going to use that new money to improve it? Don't you think the electricity company would have worked on improvements before this?
Let me get this straight. You dont trust the government to have nuclear energy but you trust a corporation? The same guys doing slave labor right now and dont even feel bad about it? Nah bruh
it is still a good deal for public in US. in Turkey there would just be a tax amnesty for companies to avoid paying tax at all, like they had any intention to pay tax from the start.
We put in a subdivision and the lines were inadequate. So all the home owners from the station to the site had to pay the upgrade cost for the new subdivision. It's amazing how money runs the government and the taxpayer gets left holding the bill.
I live a block from a crosswalked intersection on a highway. The subdivision has sidewalks, but the sidewalks end where the power substation for the neighborhood starts, so you can't actually legally walk to the highway crosswalk, as pedestrians are not allowed in the bike lane, and the itility company technically owns the land up to the road edge, so walking where a sidewalk is supposed to be is technically tresspassing. As much as I agree with "make the contractors actually fully connected the cookie cutter neighborhoods they shit out constantly," we actually have to enforce the rules somehow.
@@andrewkuebler4335honestly, the scenario described with the subdivision sounds more like a failure of local government. Building a big project like a neighborhood isn't just slapping some basic utilities and roads down and walking away. It's usually a year's long process of planning and doing studies and putting together hyper detailed proposals about what you're doing, how you're doing it, and proving that what you're doing isn't going to kill everyone through negligence and destroying the local ecosystem. Once all that is done, the local government reviews the submitted plans, asks for adjustments as needed, then green lights the project. BUT, that also requires the project to undergo inspections in the process of construction of all the roads and utilities. So for that neighborhood, it sounds like the local government body failed to inspect or hire a trustworthy inspector to fail the electricians who laid the substandard lines. There's other possibilities, but usually it comes down to a specific person failing to do their job correctly OR bribes. A friend of mine did inspection compliance once told me "hey, if you ever decide to ditch your ethics go into inspections. You'll be filthy rich with how many bribes those guys are offered." He doesn't take bribes but he knows who does and avoids them like the plague because he doesn't want blood on his hands if something gors sideways.
Good. Anything that knocks the AI bubble down to the hard, cold reality of power consumption and cost is a good thing, hopefully these companies'll stop shoving a useless feature in
@@chris135x honestly I am perfectly fine with both of those being forced to manage their power consumption, via stuff like switching over to renewables.
@@chris135xso is being a right winger about talking out of your ass and not taking five seconds to fact check yourself? anyways the article is titled “tech giants fight plan to make them pay more for electric upgrades”
This is a huge problem in Ireland too, with the exact same companies. But our govt is too buddy-buddy with them and their GDP-inflating presence to do anything about it
I construct data centers and this is real the pure volume of electricity these take are mild numbing many farms and woodlands have been torn down to build them and solar fields to help feed them. In my opinion nuclear energy is the best way to handle this situation. Every data center takes up electricity for 40,000 homes but nuclear could help solve this isssue
@@TryssemTavernthat's literally just 3, there's is so much nuclear reactors all over the world and I don't see them being destroyed or have problems This is a classic case of ignorance, nuclear reactors nowadays are better than they were years ago
Hell be damned some of the richest companies in the world, run by some of the richest men in the world, be committed to paying their fair share of what they use
They are paying more than their fair share. The power company wants them to pay 10 years in advance. The power company can take all that money and still not upgrade capacity. Then cause brownouts or blackouts throughout Ohio
@samuelramsey5995 it's insurance for if the companies decide to up and leave during those 7-10 years for (insert reason here) that the residents don't get stuck with the bill for a powergrid extention they, at that point, wouldn't need (at least to the same extent)
@@DaveDDD Do you know how the metal is mined to make the EV batteries? Oil and gas is used to power excavation equipment to mine the metal material. And there still isn't a sufficient electrical grid for the EV's.
All you gotta do is send them an email telling them that "in order to provide an even better power connection experience, the annual subscription cost to the local grid will be increasing"
Honestly I'm all for them making the attempt. If AI does fall through at least we got the additional development put towards SMRs, so we at least get some benefit.
There are wind and solar power generation options that they could put on the flat roof tops of their centers. There are transparent solar cells that can replace windows. Make them generate much of their own power using green energy at he site that requires the energy
@@chris135xWhy not get the government permits, why not hire a company that has said power permits to build a plant for them. Sure the state will oblige to have local workers. I am a big tech company, I need a building for my data center. I don't make it myself. I hire a building company to make said data center. I hire an AC company to provide cooling for my data center.
@@liamalexander8 Within limits! Anyone can use them within limits! Individual or corporate use of public services cannot be abused to the point where the user base suffers in general. Remember: there are weigh stations on our highways. These exist so that the large, heavy vehicles making use of our roads pay their fair share for the wear-and-tear those vehicles cause in the service of their owning corporations seeking profit by transporting goods. There are also limits to how large and how heavy those vehicles can be to ensure the safety of the other drivers on those highways. LIMITS!
@@Josh-99One, don't come at us with bs about limits. The government literally doesn't care about boundaries and limitations. Two, what weighing stations? On what highways?
@@chris135x ...Are you kidding? Weigh stations are at every state border, and all along major highways, usually located right outside big cities. There are also electronic "check in points" along the highway, as well as inspection stations. Also... do you even know what "regulations" are? Or city ordinances? You might be the very first person I've ever seen post a comment on TH-cam to say that government doesn't care about boundaries and limitations; the most common argument is that there are TOO MANY government boundaries and limitations!
It’s not that easy. A big tech data cost 500 million+. 250 million in construction costs. Then they’re 250,000 per mile in fiber optic cables. Back up power facilities like gas generators and industrial batteries. Cooling systems, highly energy efficient designs. Finally you have the servers, data security, routers, and storage units
@@chris135x even if it’s a lot of paperwork, they probably have entire departments dedicated to that kind of stuff. Also, it wouldn’t be that hard to just cover all of the buildings and parking lots with solar panels. The licensing/paperwork for that is about as complex as a building permit.
@@ThereIsNoSpoon678 It still costs money to fill out the government permits. And if solar panels are an option, the tech company would have to build and install an energy storage thing. Because the sun isn't always shining.
@@KuariThunderclaw It is literally generative tech. "Artificial Intelligence" is a buzz word. All the tech does, is predict what would reasonably come next. In other words, it is best for Data Analysis. Even in the field of Data Analysis, there is room for generative tech to error. Since predicting what could come next, is not the same as what does come next. It is a fad, a bubble, a get rich quick scheme.
They already do. The citizens are living off the commercial customer payments. Everyone on here whining would freak if they had to pay commercial rates for power.
Yeah I remember when VR had so much hype. And then it kind of died down once the practical expectations balanced out. Now it's AI, and the buzzword is getting kind of annoying now. 😒
Governemnts should be increasing their energy production anyway. It is too expensive. Increasing the supply of electricity would drop costs for those you serve anyway.
No it won't. Energy costs money to produce. If it takes me 40 dollars to make a product and produce 100k of them, but only 20k is actually required, i can't drop that price because i now need to make back the cost of 100k units on only 20k sales. It's the same with electricity, if ohio goes up by the 30k gigawatts and it ends up never being used, the price of the energy that is being used now suddenly has to pay for the additional 30k gigawatts cost as well as its own.
@@TheTeremaster The US is at an energy shortage considering the goals of moving to EV's. WE don't have the infrastructure, we don't have the Electricity. The biggest tax on low income housing is the lack of cheap abundant energy. If as a government you keep costs low through high supply. Costs on nearly everything will drop over time because it is cheaper to make, move, store, and run.
Now... How do you think you increase energy output? You'll need extra infrastructure... Where do you think extra infrastructure came from? The aether? You need to fund that from somewhere. What do you think *this* is for exactly, if not to reduce the load *now* and to build the necessary funds *for later infrastructure projects* ???
While I think they should pay up. It sounds like they are paying the power bill. 60% upfront of the projected use 40% after use. Ohio wants them to pay 90% upfront and sign a deal to lock into the location and power use before they upgrade the grid.
You dont even know how to listen. They pay up front for most of a decade of electric. Then residents that whine about paying electric bills leach of that infrastructure. The electric company is a multi billion dollar company also.
The worst part is that these AI data centers are not going going to translate to any benefit for the people. Generative AI just hasn’t done a single piece of good yet. It just feels like crypto where every company tries to hop on a trend. Even worse considering we are rapidly approaching a climate disaster and need to move over to green energy as soon as possible. I just think these should be illegal for now.
It has done some good in fields where Generative tech was meant to shine (data analysis). The problem, is they are trying to claim it can engage in tasks that require creative or critical thinking.
"any benefit to the people" it quite literally does, medical and scientific research has used AI AND helped it make it better Are people this ignorant?
@@chris135x idk maybe cuz I have to work so hard just to afford basic necessities like food, water, shelter and healthcare? I’m supposed to be my fair share to the government but these gaint corporations that make so much money that they could feed entire nations don’t do the same.
@@ryanpriye1402 You can get tax exemptions/deductions for almost anything. You just need to know how. If you're struggling with tight income you could find a few exemptions you may fit the bill to ask for, they are given out pretty leniently if you ask. Businesses have this easier as they can get deductions by writing off their business-based losses. Anything that went into helping run the business can be submitted as a tax deduction. Bought office supplies/chairs/computers/repairs? Tax deduction, they will not ask you to pay taxes on that portion of income. Sometimes it can be very generous, as a $2 billion movie or game that was made but never published can also count as a tax write off.
I too want to live a lavish lifestyle funded by taxpayers with little to no promise of ever paying it back. Thank god America is a socialist state that gives money to anybody that wants it.
Generative Tech is not equivalent to the internet. GT is nothing more then a predictive software. It lacks the ability to actually think and make decisions. It is really good for data analysis... It is really bad for anything that requires any form of actual critical or creative thinking.
And what a surprise, these companies have decided to build their own power plants. Cheaper, faster to deliver, less expensive to operate, and minimal state taxes. Who could have predicted?
It has its advantages. Like chatgpt really improves productivity. I am not a fan of ai videos since they spread misinformation. Former president Trump is a prime example of that.
AI, just like any technology, can be used for good or for bad… AI can assist farmers in reducing water usage, assisting those with disabilities, and wildlife conservation. Let’s not fear new technology but instead make sure it’s working to better humanity!
I think 9/11 was worse than ai. And the world wars. Those were worse than ai. I think you need to realize how amazing the world is now compared to 100 years ago.
Big tech is getting slammed for areas to build more power, but the government needs that power as it is trying to force a massive change from gasoline to electric... There is no way this is going to be cheap much less fast!
Imagine being offended because someone asked you to pay for ALMOST all of the power you use. If this applied to homeowners then the rich would call homeowners lazy for expecting their power to be paid for by taxes.
As someone who lives in maricopa county. The electrical prices are insane. For a small house of 4, our monthly bill avgs nearly $400 a month. With peaks in the summer of nearly $600. We know people who closing in on a grand. We’ve heard people complain about high bills of $2-300 a month and we wish that was our problem.
As an Ohio resident I’ve driven by some of these huge data centers and the power draw from them is insane! I even saw them having to use a helicopter just to set up the poles because they are so massive
I work in data centers and was doing some buildout assistance for LinkedIn earlier this year. They just built a 30 megawatt per hall datacenter down the street from my house in Plano Texas 🙃
*Corporate entities treated better than citizens: “how DARE you not give us special treatment and zero consequences! You know.. we matter more than everyone else!! What is your problem??”
Something a lot of people here are misunderstanding is that the data centers aren’t refusing to pay for service, they are refusing to pay for years of service in advance. No other customers are being asked to pay for what they think their power bills will be in 2034. The actual solution is that data centers are going to start producing their own power plants, and largely become grid independent. Some have already started to get smr nuclear power plants and gas turbine plants. I would expect to see a lot more of that in the next 5 years.
They are refusing to make a legally binding agreement to pay for their service for the next 10 years. It’s something that many people have done when they sign up for a phone, internet, or gym membership.
@@rttrttyan it’s not just an agreement to contract power for ten years, it’s a contract to pay for future bills upfront for a decade. It’s like asking you to pay upfront for your phone plan or gym membership through 2034. It’s completely asinine. The idea is that power companies effectively get the money to build a new power plant upfront from data center early payments, and then when the new plants come up, also charge them for their new usage. It’s actually greed on the part of the power companies because they don’t want to upfront the cost of their own facilities. What this is actually causing is data centers to become their own power plants. Several have started building gas turbine plants and small modular reactor plants to power themselves. The idea is that if they are going to upfront money for a power plant, they might as well make their own and not get up charges on the power.
@@seankrake4776 You say the last part like it's a bad thing. That's what I want to happen. They can factor building self-sufficient power plants into their costs now.
I hope the AI bubble bursts so badly. Not because I am afraid or think it’s morally wrong, but because companies milk it to death for an excuse to be lazy and charge more
20 million households for an ai datacenter? how about get rid of the ai and put that money, and the computer engineering money to better use like greener energy, boosting the job market, and better schools for our kids? props to Ohio electric for thinking forward into the future with a little common sense and very practically too. "what if you leave for a better deal, or what if the bubble bursts?"
![⭐️( ลอยกระทง 2024 ) Ver. แดนซ์ Remix BY [ ดีเจกิต รีมิกซ์ ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/rMWOLhgXUHc/mqdefault.jpg)
Big companies when asking people to pay more: 😂😂
Big companies when asked to pay up themselves: 😮😮
Socialist....
I mean their asking them to pay for what they MIGHT use now what they ARE using… thats the difference they imagine if you had to pay utilities based on how much you MIGHT use your ac or water instead of much you DID use… probably not a great system lol
@@chris135xdo you know the definition of the word socialism? Roads are socialist because I don't have to pay directly to drive on them same with police and fire departments and Airports. The definition of socialism is political and economic theory that advocates for public ownership of property and natural resources, rather than private ownership. As far as I can tell they are both private companies.
Their energy needs are much greater than the everyday person
@@macmadoodle1347 Its very odd that you are going up to bat for a megacorp that wants to expand their operation, dump the cost on tax payers and then flee to a tax haven
They want to reap all the benefits from taxpayer-funded infrastructure, but put in little investment into the public, refuse to pay their fair share, and won't make a financial commitment to something they're asking governments to spend resources on for their benefit.
And then don’t pay their taxes… 🤨
Buddy. The government doesn't even use your taxes to fund the public schools or fix the roads. Wtf are you talking about?
Yeah it's called corporate welfare in America is pretty consistent about handing that out
@@chris135x You do realize they literally do all that? Not well because all the fucking corps have multi-layer tax avoidance schemes and as such the government doesn't get basically any money out of it.
@@chris135x wtf are YOU talking about. You don't know anything about this topic.
Oh wow, paying 90% of your expected usage? Criminal.
I pay 115% expected usage!!!
Years in advance? 😮
@@neko6 In some ways yes. My neighbors paid 10K per pole to get power on their property.
That's full payment of the grid infrastructure they're requiring up front.
@Justin73791but thats not what this is, they arent paying for the grid, they are being asked to pay 90% of the ower they think theyll use upfront, thats fucking ridiculous, paying upfronts fine but almost the entire bill before you so much as use an outlet that month is crazy
@@daltronius They aren't paying 90% of their bill upfront just because. They're paying that amount because the power company needs to build new electrical infrastructure just for the data center. So yes, the data center is being asked to pay for the grid expansion. The specific mechanism by which they shall pay is a 10 year commitment to continue to buy power at certain volumes, to ensure the power company is not left hanging with an expanded grid and no customer should the data center leave.
@@georgebrantley776 theres many different ways to achieve this, by upping prices, or contracts to not leave and the like, this isnt the only way to achieve this and i personally disagree with this method. They should def pay for the renovations and such, but just cause they should pay doesn't mean any way you try to make them is fine.
If something takes the energy of twenty million households to power, it should save lives, not tell you to put glue on your pizza.
You don't want to take that cheese pull picture?
I actually think the best solution is for tech companies to provide their own power infrastructure. It wasn't unusual for other industrial businesses to generate their own power. Data centers, are not commercial call centers, they are an industrial level use of computing, but unlike metalworks companies, tech companies don't have a natural coal burning steam electric generators on site, converting the waste heat into electricity. Having them handle most of their power need is the best way to prevent the costs of their needs being put on other consumers including all the residents of Ohio. If they quit using that power themselves, they can work out a deal to sell it to the utility company.
Yeah that’s a great solution… If it were up to nearly all of these technology companies, they’d have access to small modular molten salt reactors by now.
That is it’s a great solution until legislators, who don’t know how crucial DC’s are, start rallying against that prospect for climate/other reasons meanwhile our companies are continuously outplayed strategically by eastern counterparts
While i think that’s probably great it may be a legal issue not necessarily a monetary one.
Theres so many laws on so many things
I think this will be the long-term solution. Microsoft recently bought out part of Three Mile Island to power a data center, and Amazon did the same for another nuclear plant. Big issue is building a new nuclear site is really difficult.
The hilarious thing is that companies like Amazon are already desperately greedy to own as much of the economy as is possible, and power generation is kinda an obvious step for them.
Actually, scratch that. The hilarious part is that their own greed for maximum profit has prevented them from building out their own power-generating capacity (even though they've continued to grow at rates which would justify such a big investment) because it's easier to just leech off public infrastructure.
Said tech companies are also still promising to be carbon neutral or carbon negative (which I see as total BS) in like 10 to 20ish years. With the massive power cost of cloud and large scale generative language models, they'll have to do something massive and can't really keep relying on third party companies.
Twenty million households is almost 5x more than what Ohio currently has.
Yeah, I think they're just saying that much power can be used by 20 million households, just for comparison
Yes. AEP ohio (the power utility in question) currently generates 8,500 MW of power.
And yet we're the ones to blame for climate change...
@@nathanaelpras Yeah, that’s the thing. They’re asking for an increase in capacity that is 5x bigger than what Ohio needs. If they don’t pay up front or the AI bubble bursts then the residents will be left paying for something they don’t need and can’t use.
based pfp
This has all the vibes of the baseball team that got a city to build them a stadium saying that they would move there... Only to back out after it was done to move elsewhere leaving the city with the entire bill. If big tech wants a massive investment in infrastructure to power something that they think will be the future, they should have no problem with committing to 20 years.
Why should the tech company pay so much for ten straight years?
@@chris135x why wouldn't they pay their power bill? They are just being asked to put a commitment down on paper that they will pay for their power usage projections for 10 years. They are demanding that the government build the infrastructure to accommodate their extremely high power usage, infrastructure that will cost a lot of money in the short run. The government just wants to make sure that it will be able to recover their expenses and not be left with an expensive bill and infrastructure that is not needed.
It would be crazy to not get some assurance beforehand. 10 years seems like a very short time to ask for in my opinion. The company can afford it.
@@chris135xbecause they're demanding Ohio to invest time and resources building more power grids. Ohio wants to make sure the tech company doesn't back out and leave Ohio with a bunch of useless extra power grids. 10 years is also a pretty short time to be using power grids that were built with taxpayer dollars just for you.
@@chris135x Why are you defending the Tech companies so much? Seems a tad suspicious.
@@chris135x because they are asking for so much power it requires another power plant to either be made or be active.
The average citizen is expected to have months of emergency savings
Big companies would rather give their shareholders another yacht than being financially responsible
You guys tall a LOT like a socialist....
@@chris135x A private company having to foot the bill for resources they're using is about as far from socialism as you can get.
@@chris135x but its not socialist when companies get bailed out?
@@chris135x Yep. Because it's not socialist at all to ask a local government to pay billions in up front costs to benefit your private business, instead of asking the shareholders and investors to do it.
@@Alsry1 It is socialist. I don't remember saying something different.
Honestly that's smart and if it works could prevent Ohio from becoming the new Detroit
If data centers are going to use that much power, they should consider building their own power plants.
They are actually doing that. Microsoft is looking to get three mile island back online just to power their data center
These tech companies are out of control
More like US electricity companies are incapables
@@nuabioof83More like the government is stupid and useless.
Blame the government.
@@chris135xno blame the people who defend companies when the government tries to protect people
@@chris135x I blame Ronald Reagan. He caused this bs.
This is why a tax code that allows big companies to pay little or no taxes (and some even get a “rebate”) need to be taxed like the rest of us. They use and wear out resources that belong to all of us like power grids, internet access, and roads. As it is now, they use and we pay.
How about no, you damn socialist?
@@chris135xit's called sustainable capitalism and doesn't have much to do with socialism.
@@chris135x Why are you defending billion dollar tech companies that absolutely should be payin their taxes? Seems a tad suspicious.
@@SiphonRayzar Because it's a bot dude lol
You didn't pay attention, did you? This isn't a tax issue, this is the government wanting the companies to pre pay for the power they will use in the future. Basically pay now for something you will get later.
Given the scale of the expansion of the grid that will be needed to supply them, it is a fair request. But utility costs are not a tax.
Everything is all about unrestricted capitalism and "let the free market decide" until something they want isn't immediately available for "it's not really being utilized much right now, so go ahead and help yourself."
Then the folks who crow endlessly about bootstraps suddenly _love_ government assistance.
Yeah, it is sad that this double standard exists. Companies should not have more rights than people.
Truth, brother!
Can't wait until the bootstrap generation is gone, maybe then we can get around to fixing everything they let fall into ruin so they could pad their paycheck and retirement.
This is why you have corporativists and libertarians as opposites. Libertarianism is opposed to corporate welfare while also knowing well free market rules, it embraces competition and need to push innovation. Corporativism is just buyed out competition and no need to push innovation because we've completely dominated the market anyway.
@@bowwak5366you might want to tell libertarians, from what I can tell I don’t think they’ve heard.
This why government owned infrastructure is great.
As someone who had to see a failed infrastructure investment (Foxconn in WI) I can say that a company needs to pay for dedicated infrastructure construction and capacity. Otherwise every single person using that same electric company and the same municipality just get shafted. After years a data center is finally being built. It uses the same connections that were already built, and similar levels of power and water off the Grid as a cellphone factory.
As if the gov is gonna improve anything.....
And people say we're wrong about billionaires not paying enough taxes...
Buddy. I guarantee you don't know how your taxes are used.
The fact that they can have their own space race is a proof that they are not taxed enough
@@Spacey_key Imagine wanting the government to steal money from people through force and coercion. I can't relate and wouldn't want to.
@@chris135x Buddy, I don't think *you* don't even know how taxes work...
@@chris135x Ma'am, I guarantee how taxes are used has nothing to do with rich people not paying their share in taxes.
But you do seem to be an active little Betty Bot.
Would love to see the AI bubble burst, absolutely ridiculous use of energy
And also freshwater which they use for cooling.
30 thousand megawatts, just so their AI can tell you to eat assorted rocks.
I want to see it be the reason renewable energy becomes important and gets more funding.
Plus it's not even real AI yet, it's just RNG with extra rules. It's mostly just marketing.
@@hikarikouno It also powers Russian propaganda bots. From my perspective even a homeless man would be more useful than AI. Pretty much any human can beat AI at thinking when it comes to resource-effectiveness. The only indisputably good use of AI that I have heard of is medicine development and big-data analysis, besides that it feels like they only replace humans in jobs that humans are better at.
Ohio needs to win this fight
they won’t, cause the tech companies will just leave their state
They’ll move to Washington state, they have more electricity than they know what to do with
@@ryansreaction that's the whole reason Ohio can't *afford* to lose this fight. If the tech companies don't put down the upfront investment for their needs and decide to leave later or cancel their expansion plans for another reason, the residents are going to be stuck with the bill for expanding infrastructure that will never be used.
@@ryansreaction And go where? Trump have lock data center in the US. He mights change his mind if China give him few millions.
Please, the suitcase of wall street money beats all us mud rakers needs every time.
That seems like a standard agreement that protects both parties. Of course the corporations are expecting the government to take all the risk.
What risk is the gov taking again?
@@chris135x Having to build more power grid only so these companies can use it but then potentially being stuck with more grid that they need and a huge bill to pay for it if the companies leave
@@chris135x Potentially spending billions of dollars on higher grid capacity, when the AI bubble may burst and all those data centers may shut down next week. They want to ensure that the power plants that are being built for the benefit of big tech will be paid for by big tech.
@fatboy158 which all makes absolute and perfect sense to me. If something only exists to service you and your demand. Ensuring that service is used, is at a minimum the reasonable thing the government should and could do.
@@chris135x All the comments that have responded to you are right. I suggest you read them. Again if you already have.
It makes sense that AI companies are unwilling to pay anything. They hand out their products basically *for free* and their data centres costs _fortunes_ to just keep running. It's a failing business model. The only reason they haven't disappeared yet is because they're research companies that live off grants. So when they can no longer keep the hype going, most AI stuff will just stop existing.
Not exactly how it works. They hand out their products to consumers for free but charge is you want to use the technology for business purposes. ChatGPT is one example, ChatGPT itself is free, but if you want to implement it into your product you use the OpenAI api which has significant fees
This is why some of them are looking into their own mini nuclear reactors.
As a resident of Newark Ohio (30 mins from here new intel plant) they should have to pay more. The amount money they will make is bananas and this money AEP is asking for is Pennie’s to them
They don't want to pay 90% of their expected usage over the next 10 years because then they would have to admit they know this AI shit is going to burst in like 2 years.
Or maybe they shouldn't be forced to pay for electricity that they might not use?
@@chris135x They get refunded if they don't use it, just like everyone else.
You dont know how to listen. They have to pay 90% of 10 years of use up front. And that is at commercial rates not residential
@@sparksmcgee6641 But why? The government can charge the tech companies more than what they will actually use in the span of ten years.
@@hoodiesticksAre you sure about that? I don't think that's gonna happen but if you wanna believe everything........
PRIVATIZE THE PROFITS, SOCIALIZE THE LOSSES
the words too big to fail come to mind
HaHa! Like that Ever Happens.
I have NEVER seen a SINGLE Employee offer to give back part of their paycheck when a company has a loss.
The owners/Shareholders Eat It.
But the Same Employees have their hand out when there is a Profit.
@@Pipping-Hot they werent talking about the employees but the tax payers who end up eating the bill when one of these corps take a hit because of their own greed and short sightedness
@@Pipping-Hotemployees are hired to do a job, thats why you are supposed to pay them even in negative periods. Your comment would be valid if big tech was not firing people and reducing personnel during PROFIT years. Companies dont share the success, so employess are not held accountable for failure
@@Pipping-Hot Well yes they don't offer to give back, the employees are forced to give back 100% of their pay check when they're let go.
So of course naturally during a profitable year, employees are forced to do the exact same thing to make those profits look bigger.
Corporations: No
Me: Alright, then You can manage without power
Corporations: Wh... *power shuts off*
It would be interesting to see big companies realize we don't need their products to survive sure the products help but last I checked some of these companies are just corrupt beyond repair
Another great example how companies only interested in their financial gain, even if it means to exploit others lovely
It's also clear they know that AI is going to be a way less than ten year bubble, and it's OBVIOUS they just want to cash out on it without commiting to anything. Literally just a tax payer backed money grab when you think about it.
Shareholders say that if you can exploit people, land, or anything else for profit without breaking any laws, then do it.
@@Sidicas another sh1dpost, great
How is this exploiting others? They are paying their bill. These psychopaths want them to PREPAY their bill 10 years in advance.
@@inksdayif you are building something that requires multiple new power plants to be built, you need to finance at least a significant portion of the cost as well as guarantee that you will be staying there for long enough to pay off the rest of that bill.
As someone studying electrical engineering specializing in renewable energy and energy transitioning this is a huge issue! Energy consumption is increasing extremely fast and not just in the US. A big part of our studies is around finding short and long term solutions for energy production and power distribution. While balancing that with cost, social and political dilemas.
The entire internet needs electricity but nobody complains that the internet requires so much electricity. Why complain about this?
@@chris135x you do realize my comment is exactly about over all energy consumption right buddy?
*edit was for a typo
@@chris135xyou're so incredibly dense to have written this comment.
Your thought: The internet requires electricity so why don't people complain about Internet companies using electricity and just these AI focused companies.
is this a well fleshed out argument and supported with any data? no.
Routers and Internet infrastructure require very little power (in comparison) and most importantly they aren't going to need to be hooked up to a substation like a factory or data center would be.
Not to mention just how much power these data centers would need. FERC estimates the total load on our grid will increase between 40-120% over the next 50 years (that's not a typo the range is that unknown). The existing grid does not even have the required reliability to support all customers and desperately needs investment in more transmission to fill the reliability holes in the grid. FERCs order 1920 addresses these problems and outlines a process for nationwide utilities to get their infrastructure up.
The bigger issue is that data centers doing these behind the meter deals to get power from a grid that isn't even built out to support all HUMANS crosses a line that hasn't been crossed before. Corporations getting first pass tickets to deals and resources that primarily would've gone to customers. Utilities have to pay people to build these things and these companies want the government to subsidize their costs (via taxpayer money).
Maybe google the power ratings of an Internet tower compared to a data center before you spew on bs online.
- an electrical infrastructure engineer
@@chris135x The internet is already up and running, all current energy consumption is taken into account. The grid however does not support the massive expansion these tech companies want to make.
But because expanding the Grid just to cater to a bunch of companies that would up and move if they got a better deal elsewhere is expensive, they're expecting the companies to invest their own money into such projects as the residents and general usage does not need these additions.
Now it is typically the "powers that be"' that manages such expansions. But where their obligation to provide power starts and ends is not properly codified.
@@tysej4 And if the electrical grid isn't sufficient enough, what makes you think this plan from the electricity company is going to use that new money to improve it? Don't you think the electricity company would have worked on improvements before this?
Data centers need to come with an energy plant with the power needed.
Some companies are looking into small modular nuclear reactors.
@laurenarigo3894 Microsoft is literally restarting one of the Three Mile Island reactors. The one that didn't have issues obviously.
@laurenarigo3894 This sounds like an interesting idea. Unfortunately, it also sounds like a pipe dream. Time will tell
Let me get this straight. You dont trust the government to have nuclear energy but you trust a corporation? The same guys doing slave labor right now and dont even feel bad about it? Nah bruh
@@laurenarigo3894
I remember watching i believe a nova special on that
20 gigawatts, damn my entire country uses at most 3 gigawatts (and thats with a few industrial estates running)
whoever came up w this deserves a raise - i was captivated
Now let’s sit here and wait for them to pay up in 12-14 business years
it is still a good deal for public in US. in Turkey there would just be a tax amnesty for companies to avoid paying tax at all, like they had any intention to pay tax from the start.
They'll just sell our data to more 3rd country parties to make up for it.
Big companies like this hurt Americans
But why or how? Huh? Do you say things without thinking?
⬆ small cortex moment ⬆
@@chris135xI think you're the one that says things without thinking.
@@SyphistPrime How do big businesses harm Americans? Hm? If you can't answer then you're saying things without thinking.
@@yektaagra741 Bro can't explain it.
We put in a subdivision and the lines were inadequate. So all the home owners from the station to the site had to pay the upgrade cost for the new subdivision.
It's amazing how money runs the government and the taxpayer gets left holding the bill.
What alternative is there?
@@liamalexander8How about the project owners building the new site pay for the infrastructure needed to support them.
@andrewkuebler4335 Who's going to build roads and schools, enforce the law, or protect the country?
I live a block from a crosswalked intersection on a highway. The subdivision has sidewalks, but the sidewalks end where the power substation for the neighborhood starts, so you can't actually legally walk to the highway crosswalk, as pedestrians are not allowed in the bike lane, and the itility company technically owns the land up to the road edge, so walking where a sidewalk is supposed to be is technically tresspassing.
As much as I agree with "make the contractors actually fully connected the cookie cutter neighborhoods they shit out constantly," we actually have to enforce the rules somehow.
@@andrewkuebler4335honestly, the scenario described with the subdivision sounds more like a failure of local government.
Building a big project like a neighborhood isn't just slapping some basic utilities and roads down and walking away. It's usually a year's long process of planning and doing studies and putting together hyper detailed proposals about what you're doing, how you're doing it, and proving that what you're doing isn't going to kill everyone through negligence and destroying the local ecosystem. Once all that is done, the local government reviews the submitted plans, asks for adjustments as needed, then green lights the project. BUT, that also requires the project to undergo inspections in the process of construction of all the roads and utilities.
So for that neighborhood, it sounds like the local government body failed to inspect or hire a trustworthy inspector to fail the electricians who laid the substandard lines. There's other possibilities, but usually it comes down to a specific person failing to do their job correctly OR bribes. A friend of mine did inspection compliance once told me "hey, if you ever decide to ditch your ethics go into inspections. You'll be filthy rich with how many bribes those guys are offered." He doesn't take bribes but he knows who does and avoids them like the plague because he doesn't want blood on his hands if something gors sideways.
Privatize the profits, socialize the losses.
This was the first short in awhile that was informative and fun to watch ♥️
Good. Anything that knocks the AI bubble down to the hard, cold reality of power consumption and cost is a good thing, hopefully these companies'll stop shoving a useless feature in
Don't the servers that Facebook and Twitter uses also use too much electricity?
@@chris135x honestly I am perfectly fine with both of those being forced to manage their power consumption, via stuff like switching over to renewables.
Do yall have a written article about this? I want to share with older family members.
A left leaning news source providing an article for this? There is no article.
@@chris135xso is being a right winger about talking out of your ass and not taking five seconds to fact check yourself? anyways the article is titled “tech giants fight plan to make them pay more for electric upgrades”
@@bltcatwichyes, yes it is.
@@chris135x this guy is 14
This is a huge problem in Ireland too, with the exact same companies. But our govt is too buddy-buddy with them and their GDP-inflating presence to do anything about it
A private business simply exists..... And liberals will complain about it existing....
That point about the grid expansion was a good one. I hadn't thought about that.
I construct data centers and this is real the pure volume of electricity these take are mild numbing many farms and woodlands have been torn down to build them and solar fields to help feed them. In my opinion nuclear energy is the best way to handle this situation. Every data center takes up electricity for 40,000 homes but nuclear could help solve this isssue
No. Nuclear energy isn't the answer.
Three Mile Island, Chernobyl, and Fukushima.
Lets not add a fourth to that list.
So what you're saying is that data centers would be perfect to put on another planet?
@@TryssemTavernthat's literally just 3, there's is so much nuclear reactors all over the world and I don't see them being destroyed or have problems
This is a classic case of ignorance, nuclear reactors nowadays are better than they were years ago
Hell be damned some of the richest companies in the world, run by some of the richest men in the world, be committed to paying their fair share of what they use
You people really sound like socialists who don't understand economics....
They are paying more than their fair share. The power company wants them to pay 10 years in advance. The power company can take all that money and still not upgrade capacity. Then cause brownouts or blackouts throughout Ohio
They also they will deploy the money over 7-10 years. So why can’t the power company get paid over 7-10 years
@@samuelramsey5995 That part. People can't see that being possible.
@samuelramsey5995 it's insurance for if the companies decide to up and leave during those 7-10 years for (insert reason here) that the residents don't get stuck with the bill for a powergrid extention they, at that point, wouldn't need (at least to the same extent)
I'd rather the grid improved to support EV's than AI
EV isn't the way to go.
@@chris135x for many people it is
@@chris135x
Not unless you're in NYC and the preferred mode of transit is the e bike.
Wait 10 min to pass a block? What a pleb.
@@DaveDDD Do you know how the metal is mined to make the EV batteries? Oil and gas is used to power excavation equipment to mine the metal material. And there still isn't a sufficient electrical grid for the EV's.
@@Demopans5990 Ebikes are a lot better.
All you gotta do is send them an email telling them that "in order to provide an even better power connection experience, the annual subscription cost to the local grid will be increasing"
Fight the good fight Ohio! I’m rooting for you
I love the background characters only there for the faces lmaoo
Meanwhile Oracle: Let's build a modular Nuclear Reactor :D
Microsoft is in talks to buy Three Mile Island.
Honestly I'm all for them making the attempt. If AI does fall through at least we got the additional development put towards SMRs, so we at least get some benefit.
This sounds reasonable.
I never met a libertarian that didn’t love subsidies and handouts when they’re receiving it
I’ve never met a communist, sorry Democrat, that wasn’t actively preaching for more subsidies and handouts
Either pay what has been requested or go build your own power plant, anyone can do so it's a free country.
How old are you? 10? You can't just build your own power plant. A lot of you don't get any of this stuff.
@@chris135x You literally can. Most datacentres already build their own power plants into the complex
There are wind and solar power generation options that they could put on the flat roof tops of their centers. There are transparent solar cells that can replace windows. Make them generate much of their own power using green energy at he site that requires the energy
All of that requires government permits. Man, come on. So many of you don't know how things work.
@@chris135xWhy not get the government permits, why not hire a company that has said power permits to build a plant for them. Sure the state will oblige to have local workers.
I am a big tech company, I need a building for my data center. I don't make it myself. I hire a building company to make said data center. I hire an AC company to provide cooling for my data center.
Cap public power usage and make them build their own power grids! I'm sick to death of for-profit companies leveraging public services for profit.
But the whole point in public services is that anyone can use them.
@@liamalexander8 Within limits! Anyone can use them within limits! Individual or corporate use of public services cannot be abused to the point where the user base suffers in general.
Remember: there are weigh stations on our highways. These exist so that the large, heavy vehicles making use of our roads pay their fair share for the wear-and-tear those vehicles cause in the service of their owning corporations seeking profit by transporting goods. There are also limits to how large and how heavy those vehicles can be to ensure the safety of the other drivers on those highways.
LIMITS!
@@Josh-99 shouldn't the limit be how much you can afford? Also, a majority of power in the US comes from private companies.
@@Josh-99One, don't come at us with bs about limits. The government literally doesn't care about boundaries and limitations. Two, what weighing stations? On what highways?
@@chris135x ...Are you kidding? Weigh stations are at every state border, and all along major highways, usually located right outside big cities. There are also electronic "check in points" along the highway, as well as inspection stations.
Also... do you even know what "regulations" are? Or city ordinances? You might be the very first person I've ever seen post a comment on TH-cam to say that government doesn't care about boundaries and limitations; the most common argument is that there are TOO MANY government boundaries and limitations!
Maybe they should just build their own power centers. Seems a lot cheaper.
The gotta get permission from the government to do that. A lot of pointless government paperwork.
It’s not that easy. A big tech data cost 500 million+. 250 million in construction costs. Then they’re 250,000 per mile in fiber optic cables. Back up power facilities like gas generators and industrial batteries. Cooling systems, highly energy efficient designs. Finally you have the servers, data security, routers, and storage units
@@chris135x even if it’s a lot of paperwork, they probably have entire departments dedicated to that kind of stuff.
Also, it wouldn’t be that hard to just cover all of the buildings and parking lots with solar panels. The licensing/paperwork for that is about as complex as a building permit.
@@samuelramsey5995 I meant some solar panels on the roof.
@@ThereIsNoSpoon678 It still costs money to fill out the government permits. And if solar panels are an option, the tech company would have to build and install an energy storage thing. Because the sun isn't always shining.
Nobody is asking for AI other than shareholders.
@@KuariThunderclaw
It is literally generative tech. "Artificial Intelligence" is a buzz word. All the tech does, is predict what would reasonably come next. In other words, it is best for Data Analysis.
Even in the field of Data Analysis, there is room for generative tech to error. Since predicting what could come next, is not the same as what does come next.
It is a fad, a bubble, a get rich quick scheme.
Always gotta watch these twice because I am mesmerized by the little ones in the back. The pen flippies, the facial expressions. Sheer perfection haha
Make the companies pay for more grid infrastructure. Doesn’t seem overly complicated
More government? Why?
@@chris135x You're doing a great job of satirizing capitalists, 10/10 irony
They already do.
The citizens are living off the commercial customer payments. Everyone on here whining would freak if they had to pay commercial rates for power.
@@linus6718it's a bot. It replies these "questions " on tons of posts.
@@linus6718Buddy..... Just stop
Can't wait for this EVERYTHING AI trend to die
Yeah I remember when VR had so much hype. And then it kind of died down once the practical expectations balanced out.
Now it's AI, and the buzzword is getting kind of annoying now. 😒
@leyrua I remember the AR! And the VR! And the CRYPTO! And currently the AI! Trends. Its gets bothersome
@@dannypestolesi712 and not just bothersome, all this feeds into our already bad climate crisis. For the most pointless nonsense frivolities too 🫠
Those trillion-dollar-in-revenue corporations should pay for it them damn selves.
Yeah, can't wait til this hits my home town in NoVA
I love the background details 😂😂😂😂😂
Governemnts should be increasing their energy production anyway. It is too expensive. Increasing the supply of electricity would drop costs for those you serve anyway.
No it won't. Energy costs money to produce.
If it takes me 40 dollars to make a product and produce 100k of them, but only 20k is actually required, i can't drop that price because i now need to make back the cost of 100k units on only 20k sales.
It's the same with electricity, if ohio goes up by the 30k gigawatts and it ends up never being used, the price of the energy that is being used now suddenly has to pay for the additional 30k gigawatts cost as well as its own.
@@TheTeremaster Nonesense
@@TheTeremaster The US is at an energy shortage considering the goals of moving to EV's. WE don't have the infrastructure, we don't have the Electricity.
The biggest tax on low income housing is the lack of cheap abundant energy. If as a government you keep costs low through high supply. Costs on nearly everything will drop over time because it is cheaper to make, move, store, and run.
Now... How do you think you increase energy output?
You'll need extra infrastructure...
Where do you think extra infrastructure came from? The aether?
You need to fund that from somewhere. What do you think *this* is for exactly, if not to reduce the load *now* and to build the necessary funds *for later infrastructure projects* ???
They dont even play their full power bill 😂
Or their taxes. They come in with this bs promise of more jobs, ask for free land and tax breaks, then never follow through. 🤨
While I think they should pay up. It sounds like they are paying the power bill. 60% upfront of the projected use 40% after use. Ohio wants them to pay 90% upfront and sign a deal to lock into the location and power use before they upgrade the grid.
You dont even know how to listen. They pay up front for most of a decade of electric. Then residents that whine about paying electric bills leach of that infrastructure.
The electric company is a multi billion dollar company also.
@@Buttercup697Taxation is theft. Are you still thinking your taxes are used wisely?
@@chris135x Then I'm an avid supporter of theft. Pro-theft, even.
The worst part is that these AI data centers are not going going to translate to any benefit for the people. Generative AI just hasn’t done a single piece of good yet. It just feels like crypto where every company tries to hop on a trend.
Even worse considering we are rapidly approaching a climate disaster and need to move over to green energy as soon as possible. I just think these should be illegal for now.
It has done some good in fields where Generative tech was meant to shine (data analysis).
The problem, is they are trying to claim it can engage in tasks that require creative or critical thinking.
"any benefit to the people" it quite literally does, medical and scientific research has used AI AND helped it make it better
Are people this ignorant?
How companies aren’t taxed the same (if not more) as the average citizen is insane to me.
Why do you care so much about taxes? Taxes are being used to fund foreign wars.
@@chris135x idk maybe cuz I have to work so hard just to afford basic necessities like food, water, shelter and healthcare? I’m supposed to be my fair share to the government but these gaint corporations that make so much money that they could feed entire nations don’t do the same.
@@chris135x They get used to bail out businesses of millionaires too. What's your point?
@@ryanpriye1402 You can get tax exemptions/deductions for almost anything. You just need to know how. If you're struggling with tight income you could find a few exemptions you may fit the bill to ask for, they are given out pretty leniently if you ask.
Businesses have this easier as they can get deductions by writing off their business-based losses. Anything that went into helping run the business can be submitted as a tax deduction. Bought office supplies/chairs/computers/repairs? Tax deduction, they will not ask you to pay taxes on that portion of income. Sometimes it can be very generous, as a $2 billion movie or game that was made but never published can also count as a tax write off.
The best arguments imo against AI is just the amount of power it consumes, same for Crypto.
This lady deserves a raise and y'all should sell fluffy pens and give her half the merch sales 🎉
I too want to live a lavish lifestyle funded by taxpayers with little to no promise of ever paying it back. Thank god America is a socialist state that gives money to anybody that wants it.
The AI bubble will never burst
Just like how the internet bubble never burst
Generative Tech is not equivalent to the internet.
GT is nothing more then a predictive software. It lacks the ability to actually think and make decisions. It is really good for data analysis...
It is really bad for anything that requires any form of actual critical or creative thinking.
And what a surprise, these companies have decided to build their own power plants.
Cheaper, faster to deliver, less expensive to operate, and minimal state taxes.
Who could have predicted?
In Northern Virginia this is a very serious issue and with current energy costs, households are very upset
Ai is one of the worse things that have happened to this planet.
It has its advantages. Like chatgpt really improves productivity. I am not a fan of ai videos since they spread misinformation. Former president Trump is a prime example of that.
AI, just like any technology, can be used for good or for bad… AI can assist farmers in reducing water usage, assisting those with disabilities, and wildlife conservation. Let’s not fear new technology but instead make sure it’s working to better humanity!
@@MilanTobdzic perfectly put 👌
I think 9/11 was worse than ai. And the world wars. Those were worse than ai. I think you need to realize how amazing the world is now compared to 100 years ago.
@enolopanr9820 people always say things were better before not realizing that thanks to progress, the world has become better than it ever has.
And this is why they are looking at making small nuclear reactors to power their data centers now
Grid can't even support businesses but we want to make all cars, buses and trucks electric...
The background characters amazing!
This a fantastic video. You should be proud. I love the background characters
Northern Virginian here! My energy bills have gone up so much in the last 5 years. And they're STILL building more data centers.
Me being mesmerized by the pen with the fluffy ball
The backup reporters really tie it all.together
Big tech is getting slammed for areas to build more power, but the government needs that power as it is trying to force a massive change from gasoline to electric... There is no way this is going to be cheap much less fast!
I work at a data center. Yes, these companies should be paying more taxes
I cant get over they would even fight this. They are worth billions!
Imagine being offended because someone asked you to pay for ALMOST all of the power you use. If this applied to homeowners then the rich would call homeowners lazy for expecting their power to be paid for by taxes.
"You'll leave for a better deal later, so we're making you sign a contract"
"Okay, we'll leave for a better deal now."
*surprised pikachu face*
As someone who lives in maricopa county. The electrical prices are insane. For a small house of 4, our monthly bill avgs nearly $400 a month. With peaks in the summer of nearly $600. We know people who closing in on a grand. We’ve heard people complain about high bills of $2-300 a month and we wish that was our problem.
Our power grid is held together by electrical tape and zip ties...
Do we still need the copies in the background? Feeling like this jumped the shark a while ago.
As an Ohio resident I’ve driven by some of these huge data centers and the power draw from them is insane! I even saw them having to use a helicopter just to set up the poles because they are so massive
Seems to me that the tech companies should have to pay for infrastructure improvements to meet their own demand.
Huh, so is that why my power bill was $700 this month?
As a northern Virginia resident, I’m keeping an eye out for how this plays out.
Yeah this happened in a lot of places, the state is VERY smart to demand this in order to fund infrastructure changes this massive.
I work in data centers and was doing some buildout assistance for LinkedIn earlier this year. They just built a 30 megawatt per hall datacenter down the street from my house in Plano Texas 🙃
The background flippy flaps are great
*Corporate entities treated better than citizens: “how DARE you not give us special treatment and zero consequences! You know.. we matter more than everyone else!! What is your problem??”
I think you should start blaming your government....
Something a lot of people here are misunderstanding is that the data centers aren’t refusing to pay for service, they are refusing to pay for years of service in advance. No other customers are being asked to pay for what they think their power bills will be in 2034. The actual solution is that data centers are going to start producing their own power plants, and largely become grid independent. Some have already started to get smr nuclear power plants and gas turbine plants. I would expect to see a lot more of that in the next 5 years.
They are refusing to make a legally binding agreement to pay for their service for the next 10 years. It’s something that many people have done when they sign up for a phone, internet, or gym membership.
@@rttrttyan it’s not just an agreement to contract power for ten years, it’s a contract to pay for future bills upfront for a decade. It’s like asking you to pay upfront for your phone plan or gym membership through 2034. It’s completely asinine.
The idea is that power companies effectively get the money to build a new power plant upfront from data center early payments, and then when the new plants come up, also charge them for their new usage. It’s actually greed on the part of the power companies because they don’t want to upfront the cost of their own facilities.
What this is actually causing is data centers to become their own power plants. Several have started building gas turbine plants and small modular reactor plants to power themselves. The idea is that if they are going to upfront money for a power plant, they might as well make their own and not get up charges on the power.
@@rttrttyan Sean has a good point. Listen to him.
@@seankrake4776 You say the last part like it's a bad thing. That's what I want to happen. They can factor building self-sufficient power plants into their costs now.
I hope the AI bubble bursts so badly. Not because I am afraid or think it’s morally wrong, but because companies milk it to death for an excuse to be lazy and charge more
20 million households for an ai datacenter? how about get rid of the ai and put that money, and the computer engineering money to better use like greener energy, boosting the job market, and better schools for our kids? props to Ohio electric for thinking forward into the future with a little common sense and very practically too. "what if you leave for a better deal, or what if the bubble bursts?"
Ah yes, better education when schools in the US has banned books
Education in the US are shit and will forever be that way
I like the way you explain these topics. Thanks :)
Yellow, top left, love the heart thingy! 😂
Omaha had a bunch of data centers show up and ever since then we have had blackouts in the winter
I love that she records herself waving her poofball pen just for the background