real work always done in rehearsal...thanks for the nice uploading, when ı was a child, ı used to listen to them thru the radio without any chance to see, to watch, how ı wondered..now i am 60 and found all of them here and took me back to my childhood, thanks again sir..
Je trouver fascinant le sens du rhythme aussi- ça pousse, mais c'est ensemble. Quand je vois un orchestre des nos jours le faire, ça n'a pas le même électricité.
Am wondering about the gut strings, are you sure and how did you find out they used those? I very much agree about technique being different which I sense allows more flexibility and greater tone, and although it's controversial, players of the higher strings (I believe) produced this kind of sound more naturally because they were less restricted physically, playing the way they did. Part of this, again, in my opinion, is because they didn't use (nor have) the currently prevalent shoulder rests which have advantages and disadvantages.
sneddley Gut strings were the only material available at that time. But violinists were already using metal strings for the E. Most of the orchestras used pure gut or gut core strings at least until the 1970s.
Yes, I see. There are also some clear differences in Violin and Viola playing that I see and believe also make huge differences in the sound and capacity to produce sounds such as the ability to easily change the angle of the instrument (such as starting at about 12:35 in the video). I do believe that the relationship of player and bow to instrument regarding this and other freedom of movement can be seen and heard quite a bit in the era before the modern shoulder rest with it's advantages and disadvantages. Eric
I've enjoyed this video many times, but have neglected to express my thanks to you for making it available. Please accept my compliments for this and the other historical items you have provided. Mengelberg was the main architect of the lasting greatness of the Concertgebouw. His lamentable failings notwithstanding, he was an extraordinary conductor and the best of his legacy remains in that wonderful orchestra.
you all prolly dont care but does someone know of a way to get back into an instagram account?? I was dumb forgot my login password. I would love any assistance you can offer me
@Zavier Shiloh thanks for your reply. I got to the site through google and im in the hacking process now. Looks like it's gonna take quite some time so I will reply here later when my account password hopefully is recovered.
Interesting to note that as far back as 1931 the Concertgebouworkest had some women in its ranks - this long before Berlin, Vienna and major American orchestras save Philadelphia. A few dropouts in the film probably due to splicing.
Note just before min 14 we can watch Louis Zimmermann (Groningen, 19/07/1873 - Amsterdam, 03.05.1953) was a Dutch violinist. Zimmermann was first taught by his father, then Christiaan Poortman (violin) and Constantine Muller (music theory). From 1890 he studied in Leipzig with Hans Sitt (violin) and Carl Reinecke (theory), and later with Eugène Ysaÿe. In the 1890s, he was concertmaster in Hamburg and Darmstadt. From 1899-1940 he acted as concertmaster of the Concertgebouw Orchestra, Amsterdam. From 1911: head teacher at the Amsterdam Conservatory. He made some lovely recordings as well :)
His baton and left-hand movements (apart from the index-finger cues) are are virtually meaningless: they're nothing but rough cues. It's clear from this film that the real work was done in rehearsal and that in the actual performance they could almost have played without him.
Of course this is as it should be. What I appreciate is the gestures he made for the camera after the performance where the same ones he would have made in front of the orchestra.
There are always people who love to write negative words ... meaningless are his movements ???? Just because he does very simple and clear movements ? Just because he is not a ballerina like most of today conductors ?
The Weber; wow, just wow. Thank you for bringing us this.
I always love these old rehearsal videos, thanks' for uploading.
貴重な動画、ありがとうございます。
For me, he was the greatest of all times. Nobody comes close...
Mahler?
@@Dan474834 He is one of my favorite conductors as well, R.I.P Willem Mengelberg ❤
mahler 4 wow matheus passie Bach wow
I agree with you on that one, Mengelberg was a true fantastic conductor.
real work always done in rehearsal...thanks for the nice uploading, when ı was a child, ı used to listen to them thru the radio without any chance to see, to watch, how ı wondered..now i am 60 and found all of them here and took me back to my childhood, thanks again sir..
l'orchestre de Mengelberg crée des sonorités et des couleurs impossibles.. merci pour le partage
Je trouver fascinant le sens du rhythme aussi- ça pousse, mais c'est ensemble. Quand je vois un orchestre des nos jours le faire, ça n'a pas le même électricité.
Gut strings, "détaché" with the wrist at the very heel of the bow, glissandi, rubato... what a wonderful technique they had !!
+Ken Ubukata thanks
Am wondering about the gut strings, are you sure and how did you find out they used those? I very much agree about technique being different which I sense allows more flexibility and greater tone, and although it's controversial, players of the higher strings (I believe) produced this kind of sound more naturally because they were less restricted physically, playing the way they did. Part of this, again, in my opinion, is because they didn't use (nor have) the currently prevalent shoulder rests which have advantages and disadvantages.
sneddley Gut strings were the only material available at that time. But violinists were already using metal strings for the E. Most of the orchestras used pure gut or gut core strings at least until the 1970s.
Yes, I see. There are also some clear differences in Violin and Viola playing that I see and believe also make huge differences in the sound and capacity to produce sounds such as the ability to easily change the angle of the instrument (such as starting at about 12:35 in the video). I do believe that the relationship of player and bow to instrument regarding this and other freedom of movement can be seen and heard quite a bit in the era before the modern shoulder rest with it's advantages and disadvantages. Eric
sneddley 12:35 do you mean the orchestra setup with cellos on the very left for example ?
I've enjoyed this video many times, but have neglected to express my thanks to you for making it available. Please accept my compliments for this and the other historical items you have provided. Mengelberg was the main architect of the lasting greatness of the Concertgebouw. His lamentable failings notwithstanding, he was an extraordinary conductor and the best of his legacy remains in that wonderful orchestra.
Thank you su much!
This is a truly unique document, thanks so much!
you all prolly dont care but does someone know of a way to get back into an instagram account??
I was dumb forgot my login password. I would love any assistance you can offer me
@Keenan Jimmy Instablaster =)
@Zavier Shiloh thanks for your reply. I got to the site through google and im in the hacking process now.
Looks like it's gonna take quite some time so I will reply here later when my account password hopefully is recovered.
Een interessant en prachtig tijdsdocument, dank u wel !
Such a pity we don't have sound and visual documents of Mengelberg and the Concertgebouw performing Mahler.
Замечательные кадры. Играют бесподобно. Особенно хорош марш Фауста Берлиоза. Оказывается, в 1930-е в Концертгебау были женщины...
Interesting to note that as far back as 1931 the Concertgebouworkest had some women in its ranks - this long before Berlin, Vienna and major American orchestras save Philadelphia. A few dropouts in the film probably due to splicing.
Ms. Ellie Bijsterus Heemskerk, a violinist, joined the orchestra as early as 1914, at 25.
a fascinating document
thank you!
Wat een fascinatie dit te zien en te horen !! Tijds document !
Inderdaad, hij moet een superstergeweest zijn
Note just before min 14 we can watch Louis Zimmermann (Groningen, 19/07/1873 - Amsterdam, 03.05.1953) was a Dutch violinist. Zimmermann was first taught by his father, then Christiaan Poortman (violin) and Constantine Muller (music theory). From 1890 he studied in Leipzig with Hans Sitt (violin) and Carl Reinecke (theory), and later with Eugène Ysaÿe. In the 1890s, he was concertmaster in Hamburg and Darmstadt. From 1899-1940 he acted as concertmaster of the Concertgebouw Orchestra, Amsterdam. From 1911: head teacher at the Amsterdam Conservatory. He made some lovely recordings as well :)
Thank you so much
@@JozefSterkens Yw greetz from smeagol :)
Thank you !
Thank you !
Very surprise to see that there have female members in the orc. in such time..
The close ups were filmed afterwords without an orchestra.
I am wondering how you can know that .... But perhaps you were in the sudio in 1935 ?
@@wendelhubert2210 He has eyes.
@@wendelhubert2210 it's obvious from Mengelberg's body language
Madonna! Che maestria!
👍👍👍👍
This the link of course: www.soundfountain.com/mengelberg/mengelberg-epinay.html
Music starts a 3:20
His baton and left-hand movements (apart from the index-finger cues) are are virtually meaningless: they're nothing but rough cues. It's clear from this film that the real work was done in rehearsal and that in the actual performance they could almost have played without him.
Of course this is as it should be. What I appreciate is the gestures he made for the camera after the performance where the same ones he would have made in front of the orchestra.
There are always people who love to write negative words ... meaningless are his movements ???? Just because he does very simple and clear movements ? Just because he is not a ballerina like most of today conductors ?
Stupide éxécution
+Georges Le Gal Expliquez-vous au moins !