Maybe if its different variations of Jund. The current version without Raging Ravine and using Kroxa is super meta focused and I believe is not the “best” version of Jund that’s been popular in the recent years.
My friends and I were discussing "Why doesnt MTGO do that?" Run a monthly event where you can play in leagues with one particular card unbanned. It doesnt cost them anything, and gives valuable data
I think Temur Twin would be the actual good build of twin nowadays. Like, why have path to try to stem the flow of their uros when you can have your own neverending stream of uros?
I agree that temur would be the better build. I think some combination of Uro, maybe klothys, and instead of pestermite just playing Hyrax tower scout cause its a 3/3 instead. Uro/klothys seems like it would have more impact then t3feri and path
Mister Mysterious Definitely not. Deceiver Exarch, Pestermite or Bounding Krasis. If you suggest a card like Hyrax you don’t know what kind of deck Twin is :P
I remember it vividly... I had just got a few new pieces for Twin, my friend got new pieces for Amulet Bloom.... We walked into FNM, some buddies asked us what we were playing. We told em our decks.... The table went silent, everyone stared at us giving us their condolences while pulling up the leaked bans for Twin and Bloom. It was a sad day.
Couldn´t have hoped for a better episode. I´m sure Twin would be brewed into some kind of temur Uro shell, but it seemed fine as it was right now. Thanks for the video and hope to see GOATs again soon enough!
Mirrodin Affinity is straight up too fast for Twin with artifact lands. It might be without them. Temur Twin is a boogeyman in casual. Splinter Twin on an Uro is ridiculous. If its escaped, even more so. The ramp plus lifegain even if limited to once a turn allows for such degenerate things. Hell, i think there may be even better targets for Twin than in the old decks. Traxos comes to mind
@@MTGGoldfish I gotta say, I really appreciate the editing out of dead space. Even in videos like this where there's commentary it really helps to make it more condensed.
I guess I was forgetting how dependent Splinter Twin is on needing combo pieces and consistency issues are something that keep it balanced. I wonder if more cards that let you choose and draw more cards could help improve the deck. Cards like Sleight of hand or perhaps similar instant cards, I guess I either Opt or slightly more expensive (mana cost) cards. I am not sure. I think that could change the deck quite a bit. Weirdly in the play-throughs Kiki-Jiki and the mana base seemed a bit clunky. Maybe go with just Splinter Twin and ways of finding it and control stuff to ensure it works rather than Kiki-Jiki, maybe even though a successful cast and activated Kiki-Jiki wins. I am a big fan of Snapcaster and Cyptic Command. I feel like play all 4 Snapcasters and maybe also more Cryptic Commands. I feel like anti-control cards have become stronger, although Cryptic often (seems like almost often) gets around that somehow and is almost always good. Maybe more Cryptic Commands that can be supported with things like taking Kiki-Jiki out. Sideboard I am not sure, Force of Negation doesn't seem to impress me that much in this deck, having an extra Abrade, Surgical Extraction or Flusterstorm (or even Mystical Dispute or Aether Gust) seemed better. I need to look at the top decks, my own (and perhaps somewhat ignorant) choice would be an extra abrade. Also, I just thought now, I wonder if it would be possible to make space for either Tectonic Edge or Field of Ruin. Cavern of Souls seems especially brutal (and some really strong and consistent decks play it), but also other really strong utility lands can be a problem. Even manlands means you have one less removal spell for other creatures. That would also mean maybe Kiki-Jiki goes and less cards like Cryptic Commands (which I also wouldn't want, so maybe Tec Edge and Field should stay out or only be like 1 or 2). But all of those slight changes seem quite minor (even small changes could make it better). Good video, that was very interesting.
These are fun videos and infinitely more enjoyable than some set review or other filler content I see on most other channels. I want gameplay vids and Goldfish does that very well. Great content keep it up.
from looking at one of the original exarch twin lists, seth's 2020 version really seems to be missing card draw/filtering/finding. the original ran 5 jaces, incl. 3 jtms. 4 halimar depths, 4 git probes, 4 preordain, and 4 into the roils (that draw if kicked). thats a lot more ways to find the combo then lucking into it the seths version. seems like one of the problems with running a modern twin might be the better card draw cards are banned, making the deck slower. it might be that twin could be fine. granted this might not be the most ideal list but, it really might be fine for modern at this point.
i mean 4 serum visions, 4 remands, and 4 teferi is comparable in addition too 2 cryptic and 3 mystic. Additionally the last legal version of the deck was UR and played 4 serum visions, 4 remands, 2 cryptics, 1 peak, and 2 electrolyze (www.channelfireball.com/all-strategy/articles/ur-twin-vs-modern-amulet/). The biggest issue with this version of twin vs the 2016 twin is that combo decks are now faster and twin is not controlling enough to delay till they get the combo, the control decks are way more grindy with Uro and also have force of negation. I think this version could be better with force of negation, fluster strom, or spell pierce in the main as twin really can't deal with 3 teferi or force of negation, and both those cards are seeing alot of play.
In game one, couldn't you have played the exarch to tap down an attacker and then path the munitions expert with the trigger on the stack so it doesn't deal damage? If they got more removal you're still dead but that gives you a pathway to twin them the following turn.
I had same question, I think he may have become too mono-focused on stopping uro to realize he had the win instead. Disregard, twin does not provide haste.
Storm Herald. 3 mana 3/2 with Haste that pulled any number of auras from your yard, then exiled them at eot. Could be interesting in a more combo-oriented twin, or as sideboard tech against hand hate, but I'm uncertain if it'd actually be good. /shurg
I haven't played magic for long, but for what I've seen in videos, splinter twin really didn't seem that unfair/annoying to the point it deserved a ban
@@FelipeASaito It was banned because it was considered oppressive. Also it's % of the field was extremely high and WOTC wanted the format to be more diverse. That being said WOTC has never been good with making the modern format diverse because since the banning of Twin they have gone on to make it worse every year.
Last autumn (I think?) there was a UR Cutthroat Kiki deck that made a small blurp on reddit. It would be interesting to see what would happen if that deck could play Twin in the spot of their kikis
Modern is so high power level, I bet we could unban twin, pod and dark depths and it would be fine. Maybe bloom. I'd love to swap eye of ugin for eldrazi temple as well. Deathrite would be great against uro, too. Putting all this stuff back may make the meta interesting again for a few weeks until they reban the problems.
I like the idea but I feel like you missed out on an oppertunity to play against one of the slower combo decks (storm, ad nauseum and to a degree tron) or a fast combo deck (neobrand, or grishoalbrand for example) then again, I'm not sure if Richard could pilot those that well.
At 38:19 cant you cast pestermite + twin while he is tapped out and win? Assume he doesn’t have FoN #2 in hand? Edit: Disregard, just realized twin itself does not provide haste...clearly haven’t played the deck before :)
During Companion's hay day, it could have been Yorion TemurTwin. Would have given it the room for Uro & Goyf, and grinding out value blinking Uros & Snapcasters along with your primary twin targets for added tax effects, plus more room for counters and cantrips, so sure the consistency may have taken a hit, but it still could have had a lot of potential.
Watching twin played poorly against bad matchups is pretty weak evidence. The deck needs experience to play well and has to be teched to the metagame. I happen to agree with your thesis, twin is probably at the point where it can be un-banned, but you're really not proving anything with this type of video.
What are it's good matchups though? Burn beats it even before it got banned. Humans beats it with Vialed hatebears. Sultai would likely do as well as Bant. It if comes in and does nothing but bully Tron, Eldrazi and the turn 3 combos it'd be a great addition to the format.
That's the thing you said around 8:00... The problem with playing against Twin is that you always have to have it ready, because if you don't then they have it and you are dead.
I bet they force the playtesters to test Twin in Modern all the time. Every time they roll their eyes and proceed to post their 88 page pdf breaking down why Twin is terrible for the Modern format.
I think Teferi should come in from the board as a 3-of, there should be 4 Bolts and Snaps main with only 1 Path in the main, and there should be 4 (or 5) instant speed cantrips in the main. If the meta goes heavier on Goblins and Mystical Sanctuary decks, those cantrips should be Thought Scour, otherwise they should be Opt. An additional option I think would be tested immediately would be to (compared to the original list) cut 1 Exarch, 1 Kiki, 2 Path, 4 Teferi (moving 3 to the sideboard), 1 Clique, 1 Twin, and 1 Serum Visions, then add something like 4 total between Thought Scour and Opt, 1 Bolt, 4 Stoneforge Mystic, 1 Batterskull, and 1 Sword of Fire and Ice, since the Stoneforge package give an additional axis of attack that supplements the tempo burn subtheme. An alternate take would be to play green instead of white, with Uro in the main deck and Veil of Summer out of the side. This version is probably better versus Mystical Sanctuary, Burn, Jund, and Goblins lists but is worse against decks with non-black/blue interaction, such as Eldrazi Tron and Gruul Midrange. Edit: As is, this version of the deck misses the two things that made Twin spooky in the first place - the counterburn tempo plan that won plenty of its games in the past and plenty of cantrips to churn through the deck and find the combo if the opponent isn't trying to interact. There's also additional things to try in the deck that haven't been explored. Modern Horizons in particular added a bunch of cards worth testing in Seasoned Pyromancer, Archmage's Charm, (flusterstorm as seen), Faerie Seer (lower end of playability), Wrenn and Six, and Ice Fang Coatl.
Maybe u should try Grixis Twin, you loose t3feri and path, but gain early interaction like inquisition and add thought sieze, and also Kolaghan’s command (with snappy is such a powerhouse!)!
u have a point about new goblins feeling like twin with how it makes ur opp 2nd guess their decisions except it aggro with a combo instead of tempo with a combo, kind of a bad match up for this "new" twin deck but the Teferi n Path help a lot, I don't think old UR twin would've been able to have a chance hear.
8:05 Cast Deceiver Exarch, Upkeep Draw, cast Kiki, win. Of course you'd rely on the land draw next turn, but opponent wouldn't have removal that can hit it, so it's not really an issue.
I know they were joking, but a Temur Value Twin deck sounds pretty damn cool. Going infinite would just be something that could happen, but I can't imagine a better way of making people barf than copying Uro or snapcaster, getting free triggers every turn just to out-value the opponent.
Twin needs a lot of cheap interaction. Seths deck is too slow. My possible changes: -Kiki (this card is so bad) -3 path - 1 Clique - 1 Pestermite -1-2 Teferi -1 remand + 1 Bolt + 1 mana leak/deprive + 1 Abrade + 1 Sweltering Suns/Cryptic + 1-2 force of Negation + 1-2 Jace + 2-3 Opt Something like that?
I want to see Amulet Titan with Summer bloom or a cloudpost deck. Also what wins faster affinity with the artifact lands or Hogakk with all its pieces like bridge from below and looting unbanned combined with once upon a time(maybe not dread return because that might be a little much).
I went back to magic online to test new cards for mono black rogues, a deck that last summer felt semi-decent. Right now there is nothing to do against combo, I extracted adnauseam on turn 3 and they won on their turn 3 with adnauseam spoils if the vault. Nex deck 3fery infinite deprives...
The twin deck might just be better served with Opt. I don’t think putting serum visions on top with mystic sanctuary accomplishes much. Getting to at least scry before you draw gives you a few more outs to win immediately when you’re topdecking with a combo piece in play, and being an instant is a nice upside. Maybe something like 4 opt/2 sleight of hand or serum visions.
It's a concession to playing as a base Black Green instead of Black Red deck. Not have to prioritize red early let's jund run more Scooze and Goyf. Which I say are better in today's meta with Uro and Urza decks running the show.
Bob's also incentivized running more lands and let's you have more copies of raging ravines as another win con. It might feel out dated but I dare say that classic jund is stronger than W6 jund.
@@mattkinslow4144 Not disagreeing with you, but i would LOVE to see a gauntlet run against Bob Jund and W6 Jund with today's meta (whatever that ends up being) to see how that shakes out.
@@genxlibertarian9656 It would be very interesting to see what deck has better matchups. Also to see some super weird tech the to versions could use. I remember seeing a W6 based list that ran a 2 of springbloom druid. They were just filler until he got his last Tarmogoyfs but it was really neat to watch the play patterns.
Why go into white if you weren't playing Resto? I think Twin has to either play all it's redundant pieces or it needs to switch over to Temur so it can ramp with cards like Uro and Growth Spiral.
Honestly that was a full 3 matches lost by twin. Richard's punt in game 3 of jund completely invalidates the results of that match. You can't claim GOAT and then play like that. That was bad enough to consider a re-record.
I think you should try again without splashing white for Teferi. Doesn't seem worth it to run 3 colors when you're trying to hit double red and sometimes triple red for Kiki Jiki.
Happy about the video and goat magic but how come no temur twin? temur's got alot of upgrades in veil, Bounding Krasis, URO, growth spiral, you could throw in a Hydriod Krasis, Questing Beast/ Nissa in the board or two for the mana flood games, or you could've even tried 4 colors with blue red green and white just good stuff value with twin just being in there as a bonus
Another vote for "Can Jund Beat It," but mostly because Jund drove my pet deck, UW Spirits, out of my local Modern meta around when MH1 came out (no connection), and I love watching Jund suffer.
I would love to watch a "Can Jund Beat It?" series.
Maybe if its different variations of Jund. The current version without Raging Ravine and using Kroxa is super meta focused and I believe is not the “best” version of Jund that’s been popular in the recent years.
Future 1 exactly what I’ve been thinking. The deck is overly meta-oriented for a series such as this IMO.
indeed
“Can Jund beat a Homelands draft deck?”
Can jund beat historic pre ban Winoda and historic preban oko
If you make the Jund series you should name it Junderdome, also I really want to see this regardless of name lol
"Junderdome" is strong.
That's genius level deck nomenclature right there.
That's a big brain name
Don't compromise on that name.
Great name
GOAT Magic=Best series yet!
Edit: Also yes do “can Jund beat it” plz.
Vince: "Look at me! I got Stoneforge unbanned!"
Seth: "Hold my Twin..."
This episode is basically, *Does Seth draw twin?*
Let alone resolve it
No offense to Seth, but his build is not very good. It shouldn’t be like this, he has too many twin pieces and teferis, not enough cheap interaction.
@@joe.5103 yeah, the deck is bad. He shouldn't even have splashed white for Teferi, 3 drops should exclusively be reserved for twin pieces.
Mitch no teferi is so good at protecting your combo
@@chuckstevens4985 so are counterspells.
My prediction for pauper edition of "can jund beat it?"
Tron - nope
Delver - yup
Heroic - yup
Stompy - yup
Bogles - nope
Lili of the Veil does just kinda Ruin Bogle's day in all fairness
Does this take into account the recent pauper bans?
Jund should be able to beat Pauper Bogles I think.
What about all of the Blue Decks?
E Nabors they have ways right get around edict effects
I really want a series of "what if they unbanned ____" and they do that with each card on the ban list
My friends and I were discussing "Why doesnt MTGO do that?" Run a monthly event where you can play in leagues with one particular card unbanned. It doesnt cost them anything, and gives valuable data
What if you unbanned: all the storm cards on the b and r list It would still lose
Jitte would need to be on that gauntlet :)
"Discard is pretty good against Twin"
An underrated statement that thousands of players either totally forgot about or pretend isn't backbreaking lol.
Hey! Goblins is not Aggro combo. It is Aggro combo control midrange tempo
This serie is quickly growing on me, and I really like the more "casual" (in the sense of "relaxed") dynamic with Richard :D
Should Goat magic be a weekly series? I think so!!
I think Temur Twin would be the actual good build of twin nowadays. Like, why have path to try to stem the flow of their uros when you can have your own neverending stream of uros?
I think t3feri is the main draw to jeskai twin
I agree that temur would be the better build. I think some combination of Uro, maybe klothys, and instead of pestermite just playing Hyrax tower scout cause its a 3/3 instead. Uro/klothys seems like it would have more impact then t3feri and path
@@turn2moon Is it really better to play Hyrax instead of Pestermite?? Does having 3 power enough to justify the sorcery speed of the card???
Mister Mysterious Definitely not. Deceiver Exarch, Pestermite or Bounding Krasis. If you suggest a card like Hyrax you don’t know what kind of deck Twin is :P
And veil out of the board
YES to "Can Jund beat it?" please!!
I REALLY love these fun goat magic “Let’s just see what happens.” videos. My favorite type by far.
Yes!! I love Goat magic, I'm so glad we're getting another episode so quickly!!
I remember it vividly... I had just got a few new pieces for Twin, my friend got new pieces for Amulet Bloom.... We walked into FNM, some buddies asked us what we were playing. We told em our decks.... The table went silent, everyone stared at us giving us their condolences while pulling up the leaked bans for Twin and Bloom. It was a sad day.
I love the memeing on Jund you guys do, it's hilarious! Good times :D
GOAT magic is one of my faves, so so very happy it is becoming more regular!!!
Couldn´t have hoped for a better episode. I´m sure Twin would be brewed into some kind of temur Uro shell, but it seemed fine as it was right now. Thanks for the video and hope to see GOATs again soon enough!
I’m not sure what to say about twin, but I’m happy to see goat magic is coming back
You should do bant standard against affinity mirridin standard
I'd bet on Mirrodin, if they're allowed artifact lands.
Affinity 100%
Bant standard against pauper affinity
Mirrodin Affinity is straight up too fast for Twin with artifact lands. It might be without them.
Temur Twin is a boogeyman in casual. Splinter Twin on an Uro is ridiculous. If its escaped, even more so. The ramp plus lifegain even if limited to once a turn allows for such degenerate things. Hell, i think there may be even better targets for Twin than in the old decks. Traxos comes to mind
watching seth play twin was actually painful :O
Does goat magic take a lot of editing compared to other vids
It takes more, but not a ton more. It mostly just takes time to go through everything and cut out dead space and such.
@@MTGGoldfish thx for the hard work especially since all I have to do is sit back watch and like the vid
@@MTGGoldfish I gotta say, I really appreciate the editing out of dead space. Even in videos like this where there's commentary it really helps to make it more condensed.
I love GOAT magic! Please make it a weekly show!
I guess I was forgetting how dependent Splinter Twin is on needing combo pieces and consistency issues are something that keep it balanced.
I wonder if more cards that let you choose and draw more cards could help improve the deck. Cards like Sleight of hand or perhaps similar instant cards, I guess I either Opt or slightly more expensive (mana cost) cards. I am not sure. I think that could change the deck quite a bit.
Weirdly in the play-throughs Kiki-Jiki and the mana base seemed a bit clunky. Maybe go with just Splinter Twin and ways of finding it and control stuff to ensure it works rather than Kiki-Jiki, maybe even though a successful cast and activated Kiki-Jiki wins.
I am a big fan of Snapcaster and Cyptic Command. I feel like play all 4 Snapcasters and maybe also more Cryptic Commands. I feel like anti-control cards have become stronger, although Cryptic often (seems like almost often) gets around that somehow and is almost always good. Maybe more Cryptic Commands that can be supported with things like taking Kiki-Jiki out.
Sideboard I am not sure, Force of Negation doesn't seem to impress me that much in this deck, having an extra Abrade, Surgical Extraction or Flusterstorm (or even Mystical Dispute or Aether Gust) seemed better. I need to look at the top decks, my own (and perhaps somewhat ignorant) choice would be an extra abrade.
Also, I just thought now, I wonder if it would be possible to make space for either Tectonic Edge or Field of Ruin. Cavern of Souls seems especially brutal (and some really strong and consistent decks play it), but also other really strong utility lands can be a problem. Even manlands means you have one less removal spell for other creatures. That would also mean maybe Kiki-Jiki goes and less cards like Cryptic Commands (which I also wouldn't want, so maybe Tec Edge and Field should stay out or only be like 1 or 2).
But all of those slight changes seem quite minor (even small changes could make it better).
Good video, that was very interesting.
these vids are great mostly because the banter between you guys is really fun
Have you considered a GOAT magic today standard vs urza block standard to see what was more powerful?
You could've won on turn 5 in game 1 if you had fetched sacred foundry turn 1, was that a consideration for the double red for twin?
I would love to see a birthing pod modern deck to see if that's still broken.
Based on saffs skill level we could make black lotus legal and it wouldn't matter
Finally, the Goat Magic we've all been waiting for... :D
So glad this series is back
It's been nice having Richard back these last couple of videos!
It’s kinda sad to watch a deck fall from its glorious days by getting crushed by power creep
Good decks adjust to the meta. I honestly think Seth built the deck incorrectly with the meta. Should've went Temur with Uro's and such.
Twin was good because modern was a degenerate linear hell hole. Twin folds to interaction.
i really love this series, it's like high level kitchen table magic. really brings out the spirit of the game
These are fun videos and infinitely more enjoyable than some set review or other filler content I see on most other channels. I want gameplay vids and Goldfish does that very well. Great content keep it up.
I'd like to see the classic channel fireball decks against the best of standard, pioneer, and modern
So glad this series is back!!
from looking at one of the original exarch twin lists, seth's 2020 version really seems to be missing card draw/filtering/finding. the original ran 5 jaces, incl. 3 jtms. 4 halimar depths, 4 git probes, 4 preordain, and 4 into the roils (that draw if kicked). thats a lot more ways to find the combo then lucking into it the seths version. seems like one of the problems with running a modern twin might be the better card draw cards are banned, making the deck slower. it might be that twin could be fine. granted this might not be the most ideal list but, it really might be fine for modern at this point.
i mean 4 serum visions, 4 remands, and 4 teferi is comparable in addition too 2 cryptic and 3 mystic. Additionally the last legal version of the deck was UR and played 4 serum visions, 4 remands, 2 cryptics, 1 peak, and 2 electrolyze (www.channelfireball.com/all-strategy/articles/ur-twin-vs-modern-amulet/). The biggest issue with this version of twin vs the 2016 twin is that combo decks are now faster and twin is not controlling enough to delay till they get the combo, the control decks are way more grindy with Uro and also have force of negation. I think this version could be better with force of negation, fluster strom, or spell pierce in the main as twin really can't deal with 3 teferi or force of negation, and both those cards are seeing alot of play.
@@huot2012 very good point
In game one, couldn't you have played the exarch to tap down an attacker and then path the munitions expert with the trigger on the stack so it doesn't deal damage? If they got more removal you're still dead but that gives you a pathway to twin them the following turn.
Everyone: Unban Twin. Me in the corner: Dark Depths pls
I feel like that's a bad idea with solemnity, hexmage, AND thesbian stage.
@@cerilious what could go wrong
@@MaxYoung-Maxinfet modern lands?
@@cerilious Modern is a Path to Exile format and we just got a Green 1cmc Instant that kills Emrakul. Marit Lage wouldn't break anything.
@@basicpigeonbee sorry I was just joking, I know it would go horribly wrong
best series you guys do! do more goat magic
Liked the series, keep it coming
the issue with serum visions is you can't upkeep it like you can with opt. and dig for your combo
Wait you coulda pestermite twinned on your turn with richard tapped out to cast it to tap his uro the next turn?
I had same question, I think he may have become too mono-focused on stopping uro to realize he had the win instead.
Disregard, twin does not provide haste.
Glad the goat series is back
why do i see a deck list for jund and not for twin? im confused lol
Great new series!
I played Twin millions of times and discard is so hard that you must play White Leyline in SB. Plus, the Aether Gust should be Izzet Charms for sure.
In match 2 cant you crack fetch get sanctuary get cryptic, then cryptic bounce sanctuary tap team? Cuz then if you live he's locked out of combat?
Wasn't there a red card from Theros Beyond Death that pulled out an aura from somewhere (yard, hand, deck, I forget)for a turn then exiled it?
Storm Herald. 3 mana 3/2 with Haste that pulled any number of auras from your yard, then exiled them at eot. Could be interesting in a more combo-oriented twin, or as sideboard tech against hand hate, but I'm uncertain if it'd actually be good. /shurg
Does Snoop also get ETB effects of Matron and Ringleader?
Who does all the drawings for the thumbnails? They're so cool.
Adriano Kitani. I love them too. Such fine illustrations with such frequency, I hope he is paid well.
lukewarm take: splinter twin was never ban worthy
It wasn’t, they banned it to “shake-up” the format prior to a pro tour (the pro tour that prompted the start of eldrazi winter haha)
I haven't played magic for long, but for what I've seen in videos, splinter twin really didn't seem that unfair/annoying to the point it deserved a ban
@@FelipeASaito It was banned because it was considered oppressive. Also it's % of the field was extremely high and WOTC wanted the format to be more diverse. That being said WOTC has never been good with making the modern format diverse because since the banning of Twin they have gone on to make it worse every year.
Last autumn (I think?) there was a UR Cutthroat Kiki deck that made a small blurp on reddit. It would be interesting to see what would happen if that deck could play Twin in the spot of their kikis
Modern is so high power level, I bet we could unban twin, pod and dark depths and it would be fine. Maybe bloom. I'd love to swap eye of ugin for eldrazi temple as well.
Deathrite would be great against uro, too. Putting all this stuff back may make the meta interesting again for a few weeks until they reban the problems.
I like the idea but I feel like you missed out on an oppertunity to play against one of the slower combo decks (storm, ad nauseum and to a degree tron) or a fast combo deck (neobrand, or grishoalbrand for example) then again, I'm not sure if Richard could pilot those that well.
At 38:19 cant you cast pestermite + twin while he is tapped out and win? Assume he doesn’t have FoN #2 in hand?
Edit: Disregard, just realized twin itself does not provide haste...clearly haven’t played the deck before :)
During Companion's hay day, it could have been Yorion TemurTwin. Would have given it the room for Uro & Goyf, and grinding out value blinking Uros & Snapcasters along with your primary twin targets for added tax effects, plus more room for counters and cantrips, so sure the consistency may have taken a hit, but it still could have had a lot of potential.
Watching twin played poorly against bad matchups is pretty weak evidence. The deck needs experience to play well and has to be teched to the metagame. I happen to agree with your thesis, twin is probably at the point where it can be un-banned, but you're really not proving anything with this type of video.
What are it's good matchups though?
Burn beats it even before it got banned. Humans beats it with Vialed hatebears. Sultai would likely do as well as Bant.
It if comes in and does nothing but bully Tron, Eldrazi and the turn 3 combos it'd be a great addition to the format.
Plz do a goat episode featuring Standard bant if Oko, Veil, and Once Upon a Time hadn't been banned.
Do you think they need to test all banned cards not at once but once a week based in what players choose
i ma not convinced that this is the correct update for twin
That's the thing you said around 8:00... The problem with playing against Twin is that you always have to have it ready, because if you don't then they have it and you are dead.
Please make “Can Jund beat it”!
Also I support the title suggestion “Junderdome”
Why not temur twin for growth spire and uro and veil of summer?
Why there is no force of negation in the main? Isn’t that better than remand these days?
YES! THE BEST SERIES!
I'm a simple man. I see a Richard video, I insta watch it.
I bet they force the playtesters to test Twin in Modern all the time. Every time they roll their eyes and proceed to post their 88 page pdf breaking down why Twin is terrible for the Modern format.
I think Teferi should come in from the board as a 3-of, there should be 4 Bolts and Snaps main with only 1 Path in the main, and there should be 4 (or 5) instant speed cantrips in the main. If the meta goes heavier on Goblins and Mystical Sanctuary decks, those cantrips should be Thought Scour, otherwise they should be Opt. An additional option I think would be tested immediately would be to (compared to the original list) cut 1 Exarch, 1 Kiki, 2 Path, 4 Teferi (moving 3 to the sideboard), 1 Clique, 1 Twin, and 1 Serum Visions, then add something like 4 total between Thought Scour and Opt, 1 Bolt, 4 Stoneforge Mystic, 1 Batterskull, and 1 Sword of Fire and Ice, since the Stoneforge package give an additional axis of attack that supplements the tempo burn subtheme.
An alternate take would be to play green instead of white, with Uro in the main deck and Veil of Summer out of the side. This version is probably better versus Mystical Sanctuary, Burn, Jund, and Goblins lists but is worse against decks with non-black/blue interaction, such as Eldrazi Tron and Gruul Midrange.
Edit: As is, this version of the deck misses the two things that made Twin spooky in the first place - the counterburn tempo plan that won plenty of its games in the past and plenty of cantrips to churn through the deck and find the combo if the opponent isn't trying to interact.
There's also additional things to try in the deck that haven't been explored. Modern Horizons in particular added a bunch of cards worth testing in Seasoned Pyromancer, Archmage's Charm, (flusterstorm as seen), Faerie Seer (lower end of playability), Wrenn and Six, and Ice Fang Coatl.
Absolutely love this gameplay more Richard is always a good thing.
I would pay to see Jund Vs. Pauper Zubera Storm
Maybe u should try Grixis Twin, you loose t3feri and path, but gain early interaction like inquisition and add thought sieze, and also Kolaghan’s command (with snappy is such a powerhouse!)!
u have a point about new goblins feeling like twin with how it makes ur opp 2nd guess their decisions except it aggro with a combo instead of tempo with a combo, kind of a bad match up for this "new" twin deck but the Teferi n Path help a lot, I don't think old UR twin would've been able to have a chance hear.
Goblin combo is way better in general and vs this meta as Aether Vial and Cavern of Souls stop nearly all timely interaction
Seth didn't play the deck with a minimum level of proficiency.
Like everytime?
Neither do. Perfectly balanced lol
Goat magic is the goat series!
My Favorite series and combo!
I will absolutely watch Junderdome
8:05 Cast Deceiver Exarch, Upkeep Draw, cast Kiki, win. Of course you'd rely on the land draw next turn, but opponent wouldn't have removal that can hit it, so it's not really an issue.
He only had 1 Red Source on Board, meaning he'd at best only have 2 during his next turn.
I know they were joking, but a Temur Value Twin deck sounds pretty damn cool. Going infinite would just be something that could happen, but I can't imagine a better way of making people barf than copying Uro or snapcaster, getting free triggers every turn just to out-value the opponent.
Seeing Richard play an actually competent deck and not something jank like hat tribal, and actually confident in what he is doing is mind boggling
Twin needs a lot of cheap interaction. Seths deck is too slow. My possible changes:
-Kiki (this card is so bad)
-3 path
- 1 Clique
- 1 Pestermite
-1-2 Teferi
-1 remand
+ 1 Bolt
+ 1 mana leak/deprive
+ 1 Abrade
+ 1 Sweltering Suns/Cryptic
+ 1-2 force of Negation
+ 1-2 Jace
+ 2-3 Opt
Something like that?
The goat magic should be KCI vs the Urza snow emry deck from the height of it's brokenness. May the best broken artifact deck win.
Kci wasn’t broken it was banned because it was just bad to watch
The KCI deck is well known for being extremely hard to play, so probably not a good idea, because it won't be at it's height of power.
I mean, Oko mainboard means that KCI pretty much just loses, right? Hard to win when any relevant card that stays on board becomes an elk.
Nikith Veluru kci held a lot of cards in hand and would play kci then combo off so it’s not that simple
I want to see Amulet Titan with Summer bloom or a cloudpost deck. Also what wins faster affinity with the artifact lands or Hogakk with all its pieces like bridge from below and looting unbanned combined with once upon a time(maybe not dread return because that might be a little much).
Maybe there's a way to make a mono red or gruul build of twin where you copy combat celebrant or battered golem. Something like that.
I went back to magic online to test new cards for mono black rogues, a deck that last summer felt semi-decent.
Right now there is nothing to do against combo, I extracted adnauseam on turn 3 and they won on their turn 3 with adnauseam spoils if the vault.
Nex deck 3fery infinite deprives...
at 8:13 was that not a win for twin?
I think "Can Jund beat it" sounds like an amazing series
Neither is it good nor is it played a lot. That's a long time ago
The twin deck might just be better served with Opt. I don’t think putting serum visions on top with mystic sanctuary accomplishes much. Getting to at least scry before you draw gives you a few more outs to win immediately when you’re topdecking with a combo piece in play, and being an instant is a nice upside.
Maybe something like 4 opt/2 sleight of hand or serum visions.
Jund with 4 Bobs and 0 W6 seems super outdated.
It's a concession to playing as a base Black Green instead of Black Red deck. Not have to prioritize red early let's jund run more Scooze and Goyf. Which I say are better in today's meta with Uro and Urza decks running the show.
Bob's also incentivized running more lands and let's you have more copies of raging ravines as another win con. It might feel out dated but I dare say that classic jund is stronger than W6 jund.
@@mattkinslow4144 Not disagreeing with you, but i would LOVE to see a gauntlet run against Bob Jund and W6 Jund with today's meta (whatever that ends up being) to see how that shakes out.
@@genxlibertarian9656 It would be very interesting to see what deck has better matchups. Also to see some super weird tech the to versions could use. I remember seeing a W6 based list that ran a 2 of springbloom druid. They were just filler until he got his last Tarmogoyfs but it was really neat to watch the play patterns.
If they unban Twin they need to ban Serum Visions. Card's too powerful and this video shows it
Why go into white if you weren't playing Resto? I think Twin has to either play all it's redundant pieces or it needs to switch over to Temur so it can ramp with cards like Uro and Growth Spiral.
Is there a reason Seth didn't just win around the 38min mark? Really confused
Pestermite would come down with summoning sickness -> no win
Honestly that was a full 3 matches lost by twin. Richard's punt in game 3 of jund completely invalidates the results of that match. You can't claim GOAT and then play like that.
That was bad enough to consider a re-record.
A good idea for a GOAT magic would be Full power standard Bant if Wizards didnt ban any cards (Oko, Once Upon A time, Veil) vs a Modern Deck.
I think you should try again without splashing white for Teferi. Doesn't seem worth it to run 3 colors when you're trying to hit double red and sometimes triple red for Kiki Jiki.
Richard is right, the last match was much more enjoyable to watch than the other too
Besides, if wizards was worried about the health of any format, egregious cards like uro or companions would never be printed
So we have learned what we already knew about twin. It would not alter the format much at all
Happy about the video and goat magic but how come no temur twin? temur's got alot of upgrades in veil, Bounding Krasis, URO, growth spiral, you could throw in a Hydriod Krasis, Questing Beast/ Nissa in the board or two for the mana flood games, or you could've even tried 4 colors with blue red green and white just good stuff value with twin just being in there as a bonus
Another vote for "Can Jund Beat It," but mostly because Jund drove my pet deck, UW Spirits, out of my local Modern meta around when MH1 came out (no connection), and I love watching Jund suffer.
Didn’t Seth have the win at 38:26?