For Flannery: the actual pro-gamer move with Banette would've been to use Spite to drain Overheat's PP (50% chance to drain at least 4 after the Torkoal has used it once). After that, it cannot attack you any more, and you win by default.
Using Future Sight for Dusclops to defeat Metagross is actually a genius move. Not only do you do more damage because Skarmory's lower SpDef is being used for the damage calcs, but Future Sight is also doing typeless damage so it gets past Metagross normally double-resisting Psychic moves. Both of these quirks only apply in gens 3-4 though, and from gen 5 onward they changed it so it uses the SpDef of the Pokemon hit by the move and it no longer does typeless damage.
I was hoping you'd finally buy an early Psychic TM in this video. It is technically available before Wattson if you have Thief, beat all the trainers and pick up and sell almost every item. It is more reasonable before Flannery. You have to skip the 4 "rich people" class trainers on routes 104 and 116, because they each have a Zigzagoon who are holding Nuggets. By coming back to these trainers after learning Thief, you can steal those Nuggets. This gets you close to buying a game corner TM. The cheesy way being to steel the nuggets multiple times by wiping. One trainer has a Poochyena after the zigzagoon so if you can somehow wipe to that it'd work :P. This is especially useful for pokemon that need Flamethrower against the Magneton on Wattson.
You don't even need to skip the ones from route 104, you can battle them again, they give you rematches. Unless they take away the nugget from their mons, of course.
Man that first Flannery split was painful. You gave up night shade waaaaaay too early. Fixed level based damage on a low offensive stat fast growth rate 'mon is quite good. Edit: I just want to show my work on how good night shade is. According to the damage calculation, your base damage increases by 1 every 2.5 levels (Damage Rounding Threshold). Assuming you have a 50 base power move, against an even attack vs defense match-up non-stab, normally effective move, you will do the value of the level calculation. 1 damage per 2.5 levels. That means a 100BP move would only equal night shade's power if you have AT LEAST 25% more attacking stat than the opponent has defense stat.
May not have dealt with Toarkoal, but would've helped with the Mightyena at Maxie before it, probably could've used it more effectively against Watson too. It's just a generally useful move for a tank like this
I cannot express how much I love your versus videos. Watched this intently while working on a crochet Skiploom. October and December are good times of the year 🙂
@@TheShinyFeraligatr Yeah all it took was 120 BP as well as introducing Slow Teleport to switch in the finisher right before the forseen attack strikes
19:41 The issue with changing the name of Shadow Punch, is that it is a punching move which matters in later gens, making it much easier to determine which moves are effected by abilities such as Iron Fist, or the punching glove (Unlike Sucker Punch which in all honestly should have just been "surprise attack")
What Gamefreak did with Duskull and Banette is what I wish they did instead of version exclusives: One is more common in each version while the other is still in that game, but a much rarer encounter, like 1-5%
Those Steven matches were fantastic, some of the best you've done - the first one felt like it was always just a case of tweaking one thing to get an important 1hit and the 2nd one's strategy was legitimately fantastic big brain strats. Kudos.
Well tanookis/raccoons (or badgers in Linoone's case) are not rodents either but people call Zigzagoon's line a regional rodent. Guessing its more so that both Linoone and Mightyena fit the mold of being very early game encounters that evolve relatively quickly with mid-range stats (think like Raticate and Furret before them), just with different types and there's two of them. They also did this 'pair the early game Normal with an early game Dark' with Purrloin in Gen 5 and Nickit in Gen 8.
Rodent is more of an archetype than a truth in Pokemon. As much as small dogs are functionally rodents (except rodents are better behaved), Lilipup isn't technically one either, but it fits the mold
I wonder how dusknoir would work with a backport. Otherwise I didn't expect dusclops to get the time it did. I really thought it was gonna be above 1:45
Both have totally floundered competitively though. Dusknoir was especially cursed. Could've been good if it dropped tiers, but too many people tried to make it work so it was never allowed
@@1stCallipostle Dusclops was a menace in Gen 8 VGC though. Virtually unkillable wall, Trick Room Setter, Ally Switch to mess with the opponent, annoying moves like Pain Split, Will-o-Wisp and Haze, and Night Shade to do some damage. It's an extremely good Pokémon, it just needs the right format and team
Hey Scott, been watching and obviously enjoying your videos for a while now but this is my first ever comment. First off, loved the unique Future Sight strat that you employed for Dusclops. But seeing that got me thinking about a potential strat for Banette with a underutilised move. Would running hidden power fighting be potentially better for Banette? Helps take care of Norman and Wally's Magneton as well as a bonus against Sydney, all while using Banettes better attacking stat. "But what about Flannery? She's why we need hidden power water".....Spite might be the answer. You were surviving a single Overheat, even in the sun and Overheat only has 5PP. After tanking the overheat, Spite could get rid of the other 4PP and that leaves Torkoal with only Bodyslam. Just a bit of food for thought for you and your community as a potential fun and alternative strat. Otherwise please keep up the amazing work, I always look forward to seeing what video you bring out next
Me watching the first Dusclops playthrough immediately after you give up Night Shade. "SCOTT, NO, YOURE A TANK. FIXED DAMAGE IS ONE OF YOUR MOST RELIABLE OPTIONS" proceeds to immediately see Scott struggle against a Pokemon that's be a guaranteed 2 shot in just 2 levels with Night Shade. Really though, seems like you have been undervaluing this move while going through the early stages of this routing. When you're gonna 2 or 3 hit anyways, using thief for chip and to steal berries and then 2 Night Shades to just barely have a guaranteed 3 hit and remove any possible berry shenanigans and avoid enemy potions, as well as avoid contact, is just plain really reliable with the damage calc always being 100% of the fixed rate
I think ghosts with soul powers get ice moves, because absorbing souls means sucking the life out of living beings, and death is cold. That's why Dusclops can learn ice moves, and even Gengar (who would be OP with a stronger ice move) can learn Icy Wind. OTOH Banette is just a discarded toy that gained a soul and was consumed by vengeance. Striking down whoever in its way with judgement from above is EXACTLY what it would like to do, so it learns electric moves instead.
As a kid I loved Shuppet & Banette but they appeared so late I never used them. Although I used one in Scarlet and it did not disappoint. I wasn't a fan of Duskull and Dusclops but that was mainly because how hard it was to knock out. I'm older now, and I appreciate the more defensive playstyle but only for competitive. That said I figured Banette would outperform Dusclops just because of its stat spread. Still love the versus videos either way, Keep it up!
You cannot let go of Night Shade with a defensive Mon like Dusclops, especially early game. Flannery should've been way easier. It's a max 3 hit on anything to that point.
I absolutely love these Ghost types. Gen 3 really made some Ghost gems. I think I can see a fringe case for Banette to use Torment on Skarmory, though this might constrict the moveset too much.
Scott Mimic is the central move in Gen 1. It's not as central mostly due to badge boost glitch being busted and it mostly helps pokemon that don't have better solutions for the problems the game presents. But that's exactly what curse and substitute do in later games (it's just Red and Steven are harder and badge boost glitch is gone so more pokemon need the help).
When you were talking about metagame centralizing moves from each generation, I was sure that you were going to say that Substitute was Generation III's Double Team. If you allowed Double Team, surely it would be about as dominant and Curse/Return and Substitute strats in these other generations.
Very old school of you. I've played so if then and my favorite generations are 3 and 5. 3 gave us emerald and the first remake of gen 1 which was awesome to experience. Gen 5 because it felt as fresh and exciting as the first time i ever played while utilizing all the ideas you could see they wanted to do in all the previous generations so it felt like the magnum opus of early pokemon.
I think the reason why Gen 3 introduced so many "paired" mons is to play into the introduction of double battles. Having two pokemon related in some way side-by-side just has a certain "cool" factor. Gen 5 did it to a much lesser extent with trios because of triple battles
I wonder if the fact that yawn doesn't put you to sleep right away messes with the part of the code that normally notices something like earthquake failing due to your ability. I can imagine the check only happening the turn the move is used.
37:58 Dusclops is OU not necessarily because it is tanky and can stall, but because it can spin block without being weak to psychic. Spikes are arguably the most important aspect of Gen 3 competitive singles, and being ghost-type means rapid spin, the only move that can clear hazards (defog did not get this ability until Gen 4) will fail against ghost types. The other premier spin-blocker in Gen 3 is Gengar, and because Claydol is an extremely popular rapid spinner, Dusclops is a fantastic alternative to counter Claydol, as Gengar is weak to Claydol's psychic. Another thing that makes Dusclops great is it is one of the few Pokemon that can learn Will-o-Wisp, which absolutely cripples physical attackers, and is super punishing. Dusclops is only weak to Ghost and Dark type moves, and since there really is no good Ghost or Dark type attackers, except Tyranitar, it becomes really difficult to break Dusclops. The only way Dusclops can actually die is if the other team is running sand and spikes, which will slowly wear down Dusclos.
One additional fact is that Dusclops is way less used than Gengar. This is because Gengar has levitate, which means it doesn't take damage from spikes. Gengar also has incredible speed and special attack variety, such as ice beam and giga drain, which threaten KOs on two of the most popular OU Pokemon, Salamance and Swampert. Dusclops is very much so a do-nothing Pokemon when it hits the field; it blocks rapid spin, and can threaten Will-o-Wisp, but that's about it. A special-oriented Tyranitar doesn't care much about being burned, and threatens to trap Dusclops with pursuit. Finally, since Tyranitar and Skarmory are the most popular Pokemon, and are often paired on teams, spikes and residual sand damage can quickly wear down Dusclops, who doesn't have much longevity. It can also be set-up against by special sweepers like Suicune or Celebi. However, with support from spinners and Dugtrio to trap Tyranitar and Blissey, Dusclops can pose serious a serious threat by being a safe switch. While Dusclops isn't a Pokemon you can slot on any team, like Swampert or Blissey are, with some pretty straightforward support from other Pokemon, a team with Dusclops is sure to net you more than a few wins.
Banette in particular could have used a set of substitute, hp water, calm mind, and Will-O-Wisp. Cut's Skarmory's attack to weaken steel wing so your subs last longer, maxing your set up time, and can keep weakening skarmory so hp water to ko after a few burn ticks. hp water does better on everything else except metagross so it's fine to rely on it, especially if you can burn it.
might be worth picking the Treecko line for rival when you pick any Ghost-based teams, don't think it would make THAT much of a difference, but at least it has pursuit so can hit super-effectively
I love Banette, it's a core memory of mine. When I was in cub scouts camp when I was in like 3rd-5th grad I pleyed pokemon with other campers + the camp counselor. When I was doing platinum, my counselor convinced me to trade him magmortar and froslass to help his dex, in return I got like Banette/Wobbuffet at a decent level, plus a lower leveled ninetales + charizard. Banette and Wobbuffet joined my team, and I ended up beating cynthia's garchomp with wobbuffet clicking counter lmao.
Random question, related to Banette :) Any plans to backport mega evolutions in the future? Would be super cool to see how they compare with their base form equivalents. Maybe Mega Banette vs Dusknoir
I've had a thought about the way these tier lists often end up looking and being modified over time. I was thinking, why not set up an automated bell curve that will put the slowest time for the tier in it. You have 9 tiers. Could do percentages if the pokemon done. 1, 5, 10, 20, 28, 20, 10, 5, 1 with a minimum of 1 pokemon per tier. This would mean with a new game you'd maybe have to turn off or modify that feature slightly to accommodate fewer than 9 pokemon. I think however, that this would be me more truly representative of "tiers." Though this is quite subjective. It was just a thought I had. Love your content. ❤❤ Thank you so much. =]
1:20:40 "Stick the quick claw on Dusclops and use some Super Glue so it stays there" 10 seconds later, pan to Wattson and steal the Sitrus Berry That super glue didn't work very well...
I feel like Amnesia, as good as it is, can't ever be as centralizing as Curse, Return or Substitute, simply because its availability actually fits how strong it is - it's always late in the learnset and only a few pokemon actually have access to it. Mimic is definitely more comarable to the centralizing moves of Gen2 and 3. I do think it's interesting that the theoretically most unbalanced and broken generation is more diverse here. By the way, speaking of Mimic - there should be a Mimic tutor in Emerald (in Lavaridge) that I can't remember you ever using. I wonder if it's a good option for some mons.
Gen 1's substitute is definitely double team. With the badge boost glitch and the number of pokemon that can learn it, it is broken. Almost everyone bans it for a reason.
You mentioned dusclop’s gen 3 competitive role, it’s a surprisingly niche pokemon that’s really only used on hard hard stall teams, I’ve been running one a lot recently on a team with blissey skarmory suicune dugtrio dusclops and claydol, will-o-wisp may be kinda useless in solo challenges but it is genuinely a top 5 move in gen 3, (hence why on its smogon page the only move they don’t give another option for is will-o-wisp) it’s honestly most of the reason you’d even want to use, its a great spin blocker, threatens skarmory, if you run ice beam a great Salamance check, and with😮 shadow ball and imprison it stonewalls snorlax which can be invaluable on stall Sorry for the rant but dusclops is one of my absolute favorite pokemon design wise and to use
1:14:50 You haven't played with late gen gastly, then. Until level 12 it doesn't learn any damaging non ghost moves, and until level 24 it doesn't learn any SPECIAL moves. I've tried to use it at the beggining of a few games and if it doesn't have any egg move, it is an awful experience.
Aggron uses solar beam because it kills and you didnt trigger any of the negatives that make them not want to use it. Notably hyperbeam does not have this property, if two moves kill theyll try not to use hyper beam
Dusclops is the greatest ghost type of all time, my evidence? Example 1: just look at him. Example 2: He evolves into dusknoir (the even greaterest ghost type of all time). Thank you for coming to my TED talk.
Really wish the line wasn't cursed with 'no good STAB options until VERY recently' and by that point sadly outperformed, though I still hold them to my heart based on their design and lore.
Dusclops is one of those pokémon I really like but suffered from meh stat distribution. The evolution only made things all the more confusing, I will never understand GF's decision of trying to make 'tanky' pokémon but with a low base hp and no recovering moves. Edit: Also learning new things again! I had no idea those spooksters were in the fast leveling group!
im gonna have to see a lombre only run....I loved that pokemon...it was with me for so long in my first playthrough of emerald xD probably because it takes so long to evolve it into ludicolo
In the video you say that Future Sight is not very effecive against Metagross, however, this is not true, in gen 3 Future Sight deals typeless damage, which is why the "not very effective" wasn't printed. I hope you can use this information in the future
"Dusclops is in OU" had me doing a double-take. Fortunately it's still UUBL. Gengar is just so much better thanks to its poison type (immune to Toxic) and levitate (immune to Spikes) and if you're playing hard stall you take Misdreavous which, while vulnerable to Toxic has an insane support moveset.
Fun fact: There is scientific research indicating that writing stuff by hand has a positive impact on the formation of brain connectivity patterns. When you say you feel like writing things down manually helps… might be because of that.
Dusclops is probably one of the few mons that would benefit from a rest set in these playthroughs near the end; setup defenses, curse the opponent, heal up with rest, wake up when the next mon arrives, repeat curse until win. (Curse/Rest/substitute/Will-o-wisp OR calm mind?) The early-mid, however...... i guess sticking to a night shade/bind combo or use Will-o-wisp/Swagger for chip damage and the occasional curse for the harder mons could help? Banette on the other hand....yeesh, i can't really see how the Early game can be improved for optimization, other than a reliance on night shade and knock-off to prevent berries from triggering, then getting an advantage once it learns a physical move to sweep the rest of the game, until you reach Steven.
32:56 “Target the Lunatone because it has Hypnosis”
You have Insomnia.
For Flannery: the actual pro-gamer move with Banette would've been to use Spite to drain Overheat's PP (50% chance to drain at least 4 after the Torkoal has used it once). After that, it cannot attack you any more, and you win by default.
"Send my regards to Bruno."
Scott you can't just commit murder in broad daylight like that come on man
My thoughts were something like "Bruno at least would be able to hit his pokémon, unlike Brawly"
So the power level is Brawly, Bruno, Shedinja? Or is it more a game of RPS?
Having a 20% chance to flinch 30% of the time feels like such a “concept of a plan” calculation
Using Future Sight for Dusclops to defeat Metagross is actually a genius move. Not only do you do more damage because Skarmory's lower SpDef is being used for the damage calcs, but Future Sight is also doing typeless damage so it gets past Metagross normally double-resisting Psychic moves. Both of these quirks only apply in gens 3-4 though, and from gen 5 onward they changed it so it uses the SpDef of the Pokemon hit by the move and it no longer does typeless damage.
I was hoping you'd finally buy an early Psychic TM in this video. It is technically available before Wattson if you have Thief, beat all the trainers and pick up and sell almost every item. It is more reasonable before Flannery.
You have to skip the 4 "rich people" class trainers on routes 104 and 116, because they each have a Zigzagoon who are holding Nuggets. By coming back to these trainers after learning Thief, you can steal those Nuggets. This gets you close to buying a game corner TM. The cheesy way being to steel the nuggets multiple times by wiping. One trainer has a Poochyena after the zigzagoon so if you can somehow wipe to that it'd work :P.
This is especially useful for pokemon that need Flamethrower against the Magneton on Wattson.
You don't even need to skip the ones from route 104, you can battle them again, they give you rematches. Unless they take away the nugget from their mons, of course.
@lenlimbo They only give rematches after you have obtained at least 5 gym badges. So that doesn't work before Wattson / Flannery.
"Lets add 2 ghost families but make them both only available late game, evolve late and be shit" thanks Gamefreak very cool
Weak Pokémon. That is only the selfish perception of people. Truly skilled trainers should try to win with their favorites.
Nearly every gen 3 mon has bad stats, it seems.
@@RealClassixXthankfully my favorite is baxcalibur
@@RealClassixX my favourite pokemons are calyrex-shadow, primal groudon, mega rayquaza, Aegislash, Urshifu and flutter mane
@@myggmastaren3365 Cringe.
Man that first Flannery split was painful. You gave up night shade waaaaaay too early. Fixed level based damage on a low offensive stat fast growth rate 'mon is quite good.
Edit: I just want to show my work on how good night shade is. According to the damage calculation, your base damage increases by 1 every 2.5 levels (Damage Rounding Threshold). Assuming you have a 50 base power move, against an even attack vs defense match-up non-stab, normally effective move, you will do the value of the level calculation. 1 damage per 2.5 levels.
That means a 100BP move would only equal night shade's power if you have AT LEAST 25% more attacking stat than the opponent has defense stat.
It would still be a 3ko on torkoal. It's a good move but it wouldn't have solved his issue.
@@aidanhogan-thomas1797 actually, it would have. Granted, he'd need to be strong enough to one-shot the camerupt, since sunny-day-overheat did half
@@eclipticz9195torkoal had 88 hp. He was under level 44. It would have still been a 3ko
May not have dealt with Toarkoal, but would've helped with the Mightyena at Maxie before it, probably could've used it more effectively against Watson too. It's just a generally useful move for a tank like this
It's a little bit hilarious how Dusclops starts with Curse and would be legitimately great if it was the normal Curse, rather than the Ghost one.
I cannot express how much I love your versus videos. Watched this intently while working on a crochet Skiploom. October and December are good times of the year 🙂
As someone who cross stitches while watching videos, I can relate to this sentiment! Bet that Skiploom's gonna be adorable. =3
I have NEVER had a reason to use future sight. For any reason. That was an ingenious strategy.
He also used it in his Natu Crystal run against Whitney! Super fun when that move finally finds a niche
That is exactly how the move is intended to be used, too. You set it up for a one turn KO that you wouldn't get otherwise.
@@calebjohnson9740 I remember that run. It's just so hard to find a reason. That move is just weird.
Future Sight is legitimately really strong these days, like it sees competitive use. That said that's several buffs later.
@@TheShinyFeraligatr Yeah all it took was 120 BP as well as introducing Slow Teleport to switch in the finisher right before the forseen attack strikes
19:41 The issue with changing the name of Shadow Punch, is that it is a punching move which matters in later gens, making it much easier to determine which moves are effected by abilities such as Iron Fist, or the punching glove (Unlike Sucker Punch which in all honestly should have just been "surprise attack")
Not me screaming at the screen to try Rock Tomb against Flannery's Torkoal to both do more damage AND burn the white herb
What Gamefreak did with Duskull and Banette is what I wish they did instead of version exclusives:
One is more common in each version while the other is still in that game, but a much rarer encounter, like 1-5%
@stanbrule9357 oh trust me, I know the marketing gimmick. I just said I WISH they would do that 😂
I love Scott's thoughts so much
No one goes above and beyond like him
Scott, whenever you start playing Vgen you should do versus runs of those parallel pokemon like gigalith vs golem
I'm also imagining, in like a decade, Iron Hands vs Hariyama and Brute Bonnet vs Amoongus etc.
@@hillrp1why wait? We can always just backport the paradox mons into an earlier gen.
Gen 1's centralising move is just anyway to trigger badge boosts which is why it doesn't seem as centralising
Those Steven matches were fantastic, some of the best you've done - the first one felt like it was always just a case of tweaking one thing to get an important 1hit and the 2nd one's strategy was legitimately fantastic big brain strats. Kudos.
Did you seriously call Poochyena a rodent???
Well tanookis/raccoons (or badgers in Linoone's case) are not rodents either but people call Zigzagoon's line a regional rodent. Guessing its more so that both Linoone and Mightyena fit the mold of being very early game encounters that evolve relatively quickly with mid-range stats (think like Raticate and Furret before them), just with different types and there's two of them. They also did this 'pair the early game Normal with an early game Dark' with Purrloin in Gen 5 and Nickit in Gen 8.
Rodent is more of an archetype than a truth in Pokemon.
As much as small dogs are functionally rodents (except rodents are better behaved), Lilipup isn't technically one either, but it fits the mold
@@1stCallipostle lillipup isn't gen 5's route 1 rodent, patrat is
lillipup is gen 5's... nidoran, i suppose
i mean Furret isn't based on a rodent either but nobody has a problem calling him a rodent
@@1stCallipostle lol what do you mean by small dogs are functionally rodents?
Scott's such a cat fan that the hyena Pokemon has been demoted to rodent.
Batman taught me that hyenas are closer to cats than dogs though.
@@1n1g0M… yeah me too lmao
They’re closer to mongooses
Well, technically, Zigzagoon is also a dog Pokémon and not a rodent when you look at it 😂
@@banditrestsMongooses are still not far from cats either
It's not really worth splitting hairs. They're all feliform
Love the design of these two, love all your videos too Scott
There's a reason night shade exists. It's for the weak defensive Pokemon and it only gets better as you level up.
I wonder how dusknoir would work with a backport. Otherwise I didn't expect dusclops to get the time it did. I really thought it was gonna be above 1:45
Dusclops imo was always a good 'mon all the way back in its debut Gen. But it really became great once Dusknoir was introduced thanks to the Eviolite.
Both have totally floundered competitively though. Dusknoir was especially cursed. Could've been good if it dropped tiers, but too many people tried to make it work so it was never allowed
@@1stCallipostle Dusclops was a menace in Gen 8 VGC though. Virtually unkillable wall, Trick Room Setter, Ally Switch to mess with the opponent, annoying moves like Pain Split, Will-o-Wisp and Haze, and Night Shade to do some damage. It's an extremely good Pokémon, it just needs the right format and team
@@1stCallipostle LOL wut? Dusknoir has flailed, but not Dusclops
@@bb0018 During my last playthrough of AS I had a Dusclops and gave it some Eviolite. Pretty much became immortal 🤣
Reminder in gen 2-4 future sight is typeless. it's pretty good vs resisted targets and yes, it can hit dark types
Thank you for your videos. I've been watching for a while. I'm glad i found your channel.
Hey Scott, been watching and obviously enjoying your videos for a while now but this is my first ever comment. First off, loved the unique Future Sight strat that you employed for Dusclops. But seeing that got me thinking about a potential strat for Banette with a underutilised move.
Would running hidden power fighting be potentially better for Banette? Helps take care of Norman and Wally's Magneton as well as a bonus against Sydney, all while using Banettes better attacking stat. "But what about Flannery? She's why we need hidden power water".....Spite might be the answer. You were surviving a single Overheat, even in the sun and Overheat only has 5PP. After tanking the overheat, Spite could get rid of the other 4PP and that leaves Torkoal with only Bodyslam.
Just a bit of food for thought for you and your community as a potential fun and alternative strat. Otherwise please keep up the amazing work, I always look forward to seeing what video you bring out next
This makes me feel like we should have two tier lists. One for speed, and one for the lowest number of knock outs.
49:27 Why Thunderbolt and not Shadowball? It looks like you could have won the first match without set up
Clearly what gen3 really needs is Pelipper but with protect/confuse ray/sand attack/will-o-wisp.
41:10 stab super effective Crunch from a dark type breaks substitute
Scott: surprised Pikachu face
Scotts thumbnail art don't miss
Me watching the first Dusclops playthrough immediately after you give up Night Shade. "SCOTT, NO, YOURE A TANK. FIXED DAMAGE IS ONE OF YOUR MOST RELIABLE OPTIONS" proceeds to immediately see Scott struggle against a Pokemon that's be a guaranteed 2 shot in just 2 levels with Night Shade.
Really though, seems like you have been undervaluing this move while going through the early stages of this routing. When you're gonna 2 or 3 hit anyways, using thief for chip and to steal berries and then 2 Night Shades to just barely have a guaranteed 3 hit and remove any possible berry shenanigans and avoid enemy potions, as well as avoid contact, is just plain really reliable with the damage calc always being 100% of the fixed rate
Wait, at 24:10 you said that you played banette first but at 46:07 you say that you played duscolps first. What is it challenge man?
I didn't expect u to make this video I was like
make a dusclops video or a banette thanks
I was just thinking about Dusclops today and how it grew on me after using it in Legends Arceus. Awesome!
"I have to knock out his Pokèmon with Bind, I am losing my mind!"
Bars?
1:00:00 the colour of the text here makes it kinda hard to read.
1:14:42 don't blame duskclops, that was definitely a blunder
I think ghosts with soul powers get ice moves, because absorbing souls means sucking the life out of living beings, and death is cold. That's why Dusclops can learn ice moves, and even Gengar (who would be OP with a stronger ice move) can learn Icy Wind.
OTOH Banette is just a discarded toy that gained a soul and was consumed by vengeance. Striking down whoever in its way with judgement from above is EXACTLY what it would like to do, so it learns electric moves instead.
As a kid I loved Shuppet & Banette but they appeared so late I never used them. Although I used one in Scarlet and it did not disappoint. I wasn't a fan of Duskull and Dusclops but that was mainly because how hard it was to knock out. I'm older now, and I appreciate the more defensive playstyle but only for competitive. That said I figured Banette would outperform Dusclops just because of its stat spread. Still love the versus videos either way, Keep it up!
Havent been able to watch many vids lately but... Scott sounds really ASMR in this video 😳
Scott's "Try not to do more than two playthroughs per pokémon" challenge - Impossible Difficulty
Not that it mattered but, "Focus the Lunatone because it has hypnosis" is funny to hear while hes using an insomnia pokemon :D
The little arrows on the stats overlay are a nice touch
You cannot let go of Night Shade with a defensive Mon like Dusclops, especially early game. Flannery should've been way easier. It's a max 3 hit on anything to that point.
I love Dusclops. It’s a solid pokemon, just not one you want to have in a race.
Sweet, Duskull/Dusknoir are two of my favorite Pokémon.
1:18:20 writing notes (and I mean writing not typing) helps people with ADHD study so I'm not surprised it helps Scott with pokemon battle prep
1:04:00 I have a similar experience with Gardevoir. Traced Spinda's Own Tempo but it kept spamming Teeter Dance. Free setup!
I made it to 1:27:43. And no Scott, YOU'RE INCREDIBLE!
I just noticed the arrows for the boost/debuff of the nature in the stat boxes, really nice touch
I absolutely love these Ghost types. Gen 3 really made some Ghost gems.
I think I can see a fringe case for Banette to use Torment on Skarmory, though this might constrict the moveset too much.
You could say that the early Normal types really put Dusclops in a BIND
Banette is definitely one of the coolest 👻 type Pokemon. Love its design.
Scott Mimic is the central move in Gen 1. It's not as central mostly due to badge boost glitch being busted and it mostly helps pokemon that don't have better solutions for the problems the game presents. But that's exactly what curse and substitute do in later games (it's just Red and Steven are harder and badge boost glitch is gone so more pokemon need the help).
When you were talking about metagame centralizing moves from each generation, I was sure that you were going to say that Substitute was Generation III's Double Team. If you allowed Double Team, surely it would be about as dominant and Curse/Return and Substitute strats in these other generations.
Never played these as im quite old school and only just started emerald, looking forward to watching it, cheers ❤
Very old school of you. I've played so if then and my favorite generations are 3 and 5.
3 gave us emerald and the first remake of gen 1 which was awesome to experience.
Gen 5 because it felt as fresh and exciting as the first time i ever played while utilizing all the ideas you could see they wanted to do in all the previous generations so it felt like the magnum opus of early pokemon.
For some reason I thought Shadow Punch was a priority move. Must have been thinking of Shadow Sneak.
Just starting the video but I'm assuming that nightshade is going to be under utilized in these runs...
I think the reason why Gen 3 introduced so many "paired" mons is to play into the introduction of double battles. Having two pokemon related in some way side-by-side just has a certain "cool" factor.
Gen 5 did it to a much lesser extent with trios because of triple battles
1:03:28 attack lowering nature?
Did Scott do a Modest run that he didn't show?
Also I think he said Modest when he meant Adamant at least once 😅 in the video
I wonder if the fact that yawn doesn't put you to sleep right away messes with the part of the code that normally notices something like earthquake failing due to your ability. I can imagine the check only happening the turn the move is used.
37:58
Dusclops is OU not necessarily because it is tanky and can stall, but because it can spin block without being weak to psychic.
Spikes are arguably the most important aspect of Gen 3 competitive singles, and being ghost-type means rapid spin, the only move that can clear hazards (defog did not get this ability until Gen 4) will fail against ghost types.
The other premier spin-blocker in Gen 3 is Gengar, and because Claydol is an extremely popular rapid spinner, Dusclops is a fantastic alternative to counter Claydol, as Gengar is weak to Claydol's psychic.
Another thing that makes Dusclops great is it is one of the few Pokemon that can learn Will-o-Wisp, which absolutely cripples physical attackers, and is super punishing.
Dusclops is only weak to Ghost and Dark type moves, and since there really is no good Ghost or Dark type attackers, except Tyranitar, it becomes really difficult to break Dusclops.
The only way Dusclops can actually die is if the other team is running sand and spikes, which will slowly wear down Dusclos.
One additional fact is that Dusclops is way less used than Gengar. This is because Gengar has levitate, which means it doesn't take damage from spikes. Gengar also has incredible speed and special attack variety, such as ice beam and giga drain, which threaten KOs on two of the most popular OU Pokemon, Salamance and Swampert. Dusclops is very much so a do-nothing Pokemon when it hits the field; it blocks rapid spin, and can threaten Will-o-Wisp, but that's about it. A special-oriented Tyranitar doesn't care much about being burned, and threatens to trap Dusclops with pursuit. Finally, since Tyranitar and Skarmory are the most popular Pokemon, and are often paired on teams, spikes and residual sand damage can quickly wear down Dusclops, who doesn't have much longevity. It can also be set-up against by special sweepers like Suicune or Celebi. However, with support from spinners and Dugtrio to trap Tyranitar and Blissey, Dusclops can pose serious a serious threat by being a safe switch. While Dusclops isn't a Pokemon you can slot on any team, like Swampert or Blissey are, with some pretty straightforward support from other Pokemon, a team with Dusclops is sure to net you more than a few wins.
Banette in particular could have used a set of substitute, hp water, calm mind, and Will-O-Wisp. Cut's Skarmory's attack to weaken steel wing so your subs last longer, maxing your set up time, and can keep weakening skarmory so hp water to ko after a few burn ticks. hp water does better on everything else except metagross so it's fine to rely on it, especially if you can burn it.
I need to see you call out those healing items with setup moves. If one attack brings them to
might be worth picking the Treecko line for rival when you pick any Ghost-based teams,
don't think it would make THAT much of a difference, but at least it has pursuit so can hit super-effectively
I love Banette, it's a core memory of mine. When I was in cub scouts camp when I was in like 3rd-5th grad I pleyed pokemon with other campers + the camp counselor. When I was doing platinum, my counselor convinced me to trade him magmortar and froslass to help his dex, in return I got like Banette/Wobbuffet at a decent level, plus a lower leveled ninetales + charizard. Banette and Wobbuffet joined my team, and I ended up beating cynthia's garchomp with wobbuffet clicking counter lmao.
Random question, related to Banette :) Any plans to backport mega evolutions in the future? Would be super cool to see how they compare with their base form equivalents. Maybe Mega Banette vs Dusknoir
I like your take on the pokemon from Gen 5 Scott!! Playing Pokemon white atm
1:00:36 Did some calculations to two shot with nightshade ???
Well that's an overstatement.
I've had a thought about the way these tier lists often end up looking and being modified over time. I was thinking, why not set up an automated bell curve that will put the slowest time for the tier in it.
You have 9 tiers. Could do percentages if the pokemon done. 1, 5, 10, 20, 28, 20, 10, 5, 1 with a minimum of 1 pokemon per tier. This would mean with a new game you'd maybe have to turn off or modify that feature slightly to accommodate fewer than 9 pokemon. I think however, that this would be me more truly representative of "tiers." Though this is quite subjective. It was just a thought I had.
Love your content. ❤❤ Thank you so much. =]
1:20:40 "Stick the quick claw on Dusclops and use some Super Glue so it stays there"
10 seconds later, pan to Wattson and steal the Sitrus Berry
That super glue didn't work very well...
Watching you use quick claw against a team that inflicts paralysis qhen you have thief made ME flinch
I feel like Amnesia, as good as it is, can't ever be as centralizing as Curse, Return or Substitute, simply because its availability actually fits how strong it is - it's always late in the learnset and only a few pokemon actually have access to it. Mimic is definitely more comarable to the centralizing moves of Gen2 and 3. I do think it's interesting that the theoretically most unbalanced and broken generation is more diverse here.
By the way, speaking of Mimic - there should be a Mimic tutor in Emerald (in Lavaridge) that I can't remember you ever using. I wonder if it's a good option for some mons.
Gen 1's substitute is definitely double team. With the badge boost glitch and the number of pokemon that can learn it, it is broken. Almost everyone bans it for a reason.
You mentioned dusclop’s gen 3 competitive role, it’s a surprisingly niche pokemon that’s really only used on hard hard stall teams, I’ve been running one a lot recently on a team with blissey skarmory suicune dugtrio dusclops and claydol, will-o-wisp may be kinda useless in solo challenges but it is genuinely a top 5 move in gen 3, (hence why on its smogon page the only move they don’t give another option for is will-o-wisp) it’s honestly most of the reason you’d even want to use, its a great spin blocker, threatens skarmory, if you run ice beam a great Salamance check, and with😮 shadow ball and imprison it stonewalls snorlax which can be invaluable on stall
Sorry for the rant but dusclops is one of my absolute favorite pokemon design wise and to use
1:14:50 You haven't played with late gen gastly, then. Until level 12 it doesn't learn any damaging non ghost moves, and until level 24 it doesn't learn any SPECIAL moves. I've tried to use it at the beggining of a few games and if it doesn't have any egg move, it is an awful experience.
I tuned in towards the end and was very confused by who Robin was, I was expecting him to talk about some super hard cooltrainer that gave him trouble
I can't help but wonder how much better these two would have done if Curse had its non-ghost effect on them
Aggron uses solar beam because it kills and you didnt trigger any of the negatives that make them not want to use it. Notably hyperbeam does not have this property, if two moves kill theyll try not to use hyper beam
I'd say it's always worth to skip rich trainers till you have thief since their zigzagoons holds nuggest, should really help for getting TMs earlier
Blessed Hiker, making the cursed run worthwhile...
Dusclops is the greatest ghost type of all time, my evidence?
Example 1: just look at him.
Example 2: He evolves into dusknoir (the even greaterest ghost type of all time).
Thank you for coming to my TED talk.
3. Trust me bro
Really wish the line wasn't cursed with 'no good STAB options until VERY recently' and by that point sadly outperformed, though I still hold them to my heart based on their design and lore.
Counterpoint: Ceruledge has flaming swords for hands and thats just cool
Future Sight being the key to the win was awesome.
Dusclops is one of those pokémon I really like but suffered from meh stat distribution. The evolution only made things all the more confusing, I will never understand GF's decision of trying to make 'tanky' pokémon but with a low base hp and no recovering moves.
Edit: Also learning new things again! I had no idea those spooksters were in the fast leveling group!
im gonna have to see a lombre only run....I loved that pokemon...it was with me for so long in my first playthrough of emerald xD
probably because it takes so long to evolve it into ludicolo
Thank you scott for making this Videos ❤ i am really live your work! Keep it up!
Do you still read all comments?
Greetings from Germany
In the video you say that Future Sight is not very effecive against Metagross, however, this is not true, in gen 3 Future Sight deals typeless damage, which is why the "not very effective" wasn't printed.
I hope you can use this information in the future
Hopefully the trauma from Dusclops early game won't resurface every time Fantina sends out her lead in Platinum.
I wondered why Dusclops got an evolution in Gen4 while Banette didn't and now I know why. Rematch versus Dusknoir in Platinum someday?
Thunderbolt will always hit in the rain won't it? 34:06
Nope, only Thunder.
Man Dusclops really gets done dirty with it's early game moveset
Kinda waiting for the Dustox vs Beautifly duel. I loved beautifly when i was a kid
Lax Incense is also useful in competetive when you don't have a better item.
"Dusclops is in OU" had me doing a double-take. Fortunately it's still UUBL. Gengar is just so much better thanks to its poison type (immune to Toxic) and levitate (immune to Spikes) and if you're playing hard stall you take Misdreavous which, while vulnerable to Toxic has an insane support moveset.
I love this video cool ghost type run they are my favorite try the ghost dark type Pokémon
Fun fact:
There is scientific research indicating that writing stuff by hand has a positive impact on the formation of brain connectivity patterns. When you say you feel like writing things down manually helps… might be because of that.
Dusclops is probably one of the few mons that would benefit from a rest set in these playthroughs near the end; setup defenses, curse the opponent, heal up with rest, wake up when the next mon arrives, repeat curse until win. (Curse/Rest/substitute/Will-o-wisp OR calm mind?)
The early-mid, however...... i guess sticking to a night shade/bind combo or use Will-o-wisp/Swagger for chip damage and the occasional curse for the harder mons could help?
Banette on the other hand....yeesh, i can't really see how the Early game can be improved for optimization, other than a reliance on night shade and knock-off to prevent berries from triggering, then getting an advantage once it learns a physical move to sweep the rest of the game, until you reach Steven.
23:15 Upgrade knockoff to thief is such a wild thing to say in the modern era