This is good information. I like the pros and cons for each of the types of diving/water you would use these tanks for. For me, I will dive my 7L steels almost exclusively in fresh and salt because it displaces so little water, but still 'heavy' so I don't have to use so much weight. I only consider using my 11L aluminum if I would be diving in an environment where I need to superman the tanks. I do have 12L steels that I do dive a lot and love that they offer so much gas. I only use my AL40s for decompression bottles.
Hi Steve, I am diving Faber Light steel 12l cylinders everywhere, in fresh and salt water, with 7mm wet suite and also with dry suite. They are a bit lighter than the “normal” 12l steels from Faber and can be filled only on 200 bar. Using actually the 80s and 7l alus only as stages. The light steels are simply a multipurpose weapon of my choice.
Yes! There's small differences in aluminium cylinders' buoyancy characteristics as well, depending on the manufacturer, but way more so with different types of steels. So in Europe the most common steels are rated to 232 bar and these are the ones people refer to when they talk generally about steel cylinders. But wait, there's more! 200 bar and also 300 bar. The latter is obviously ridiculously heavy and cannot be filled full in many places. And then there's all of the American LP/HP stuff which is where it gets very confusing. I think they mostly are the same cylinders but usually rated for significantly lower pressures. The key takeaway here is that you can't just say steels are heavy. Most are and I guess in most places they all are, but at least mention that somewhere people have options. I have two sets of steel cylinders and they're both what I call neutrally buoyant. The 12/200 is about 2 kg lighter than an S80. The stamped weight on the 7/200 is less than 7 kg, wearing those is like having no tanks at all. Otherwise great content, cheers! ;)
@@valtterimattila570 Yes for sure. I think your point is understanding the characteristics of cylinders and choosing accordingly. That aligns well with what I was saying here albeit with a limited set of cylinder choices. I dived 300Bar 7L Steels last time in Australia. They were unbelievably heavy when full and on my first dive with them I was drastically overweighted and they held really badly. Next dive, I took off all of my weight and adjusted the clip position and loop bungee. The result is the small cave dive clip you see of me in Pines cave at 5'50". Thanks for your comment :)
Thanks so much for the video, Steve! It's been super helpful. One thing I’d really love to see is a detailed breakdown of the differences between cylinder manufacturers and sizes. For example, comparing the characteristics of a Faber 12 vs. Euro 12 with as many variations as possible. I’ve been experimenting with different steels lately, but it feels like a bit of a minefield. It would be amazing to see info on trim characteristics, buoyancy full vs. empty, size variations (7, 8.5, 10, 12), and differences between brands. I understand this is a huge ask 😂 but maybe there’s a top sidemount cylinder out there that is just considered the best you could recommend? For context, I currently have Faber 10s and 7s, and I recently tried Euro 8.5s with flat bottoms but they were terrible-should’ve gone with round bottoms! Thanks again for all your great content!
Yes, if you search online there are a few tables out there. Generally, 12L steels and 11L AL are your go-to's for most sidemount diving. Then you can see what 12L variants are available and try them out. While there are differences for sure, you can dive them and see how they feel and work and then iterate your setup to accommodate them.
Great summary Steve 🙏 I am taking my MOD1 at Protec in the end of this year and was really planning to discuss with my instructor at that time about the option of transitioning my current OC configuration (12L steels round bottoms) to 7L steels when doing rec dives with the sidewinder at home. I manage my own equipment all by myself without help currently but with additional CCR, the less weight and volumes I need to manage outside the water, honestly the better :) In Portugal sea conditions are similar to yours (salt water, temps 13-18, some times Atlantic moody currents 😅) And once I’m on the sidewinder I want to have the most “enjoyable” bailout system). Would absolutely love to have your feedback. Thank you! 👌
Hey Ana, that is awesome, you will be in very good hands at Protec. They tend to use 11L AL cylinders (80cuft) but you could ask about the 7L steels. I trained on them with Edd Sorenson. To be honest it is not that difficult to transition between cylinders. I'll make that the next video i.e. what do you have to consider and do to your sidemount system as you move from Steel to AL or vice versa. and also from 12L Steel to 7L. I do this a lot in my own diving.
@@dirkrosemann1123 I've never tried them but I am sure they would be great. You are spoiled for choice in Europe with so many cylinders to choose from. I dived I think Eurosteel concave cylinders in Gozo. They were my favourites :)
Hi Steve- how much does the length of your cylinder effect your movement whilst finning if you have a short torso and longer legs or the other way round?
Your body shape is a consideration, but I've never found shorter cylinders to be a good answer for shorter people. There are a lot of phenomenal divers and Natalie Gibb and Arielle Ginsberg come to mind, who are short in stature but dive Ali 80s (11L) exceptionally well. Back to my point in this video, if at all possible, choose the cylinder that suits the exposure protection, dive environment and dive plan.
Yep, I feel ya. The issue is fill pressure vs what it settles to. If they fill to 232 Bar then depending on the fill speed and temp it is going to drop back to 210 or so. Generally in NZ we have to be happy if we get over 200 Bar. The gas filling is very heavily regulated and there are some very bizarre rules that we have to follow :(.
@@sidemountpros Yeah roger that. Its mostly a time and energy issue here in AU... only a few operators (I know) can be bothered to top-up again after they cool down ;)
I did do that when referring to the benefits of AL cylinders. Steels are not the right tool for dives requiring the removal of one or more cylinders including, of course, stages.
@@sidemountpros I thought that was made clear Steve. I love my steels too and don't have a legitimate need to remove them under water.. just when dikn around only ;)
This is good information. I like the pros and cons for each of the types of diving/water you would use these tanks for.
For me, I will dive my 7L steels almost exclusively in fresh and salt because it displaces so little water, but still 'heavy' so I don't have to use so much weight.
I only consider using my 11L aluminum if I would be diving in an environment where I need to superman the tanks.
I do have 12L steels that I do dive a lot and love that they offer so much gas.
I only use my AL40s for decompression bottles.
Your rationale fits well with how I make my cylinder choices, thanks :)
Outstanding information
Thanks :)
Cool discussion thanks for posting
You're welcome :)
Hi Steve, I am diving Faber Light steel 12l cylinders everywhere, in fresh and salt water, with 7mm wet suite and also with dry suite. They are a bit lighter than the “normal” 12l steels from Faber and can be filled only on 200 bar. Using actually the 80s and 7l alus only as stages. The light steels are simply a multipurpose weapon of my choice.
Thanks for that. Unfortunately, those light steels are not available everywhere. I'd love to try them.
Yes! There's small differences in aluminium cylinders' buoyancy characteristics as well, depending on the manufacturer, but way more so with different types of steels. So in Europe the most common steels are rated to 232 bar and these are the ones people refer to when they talk generally about steel cylinders. But wait, there's more! 200 bar and also 300 bar. The latter is obviously ridiculously heavy and cannot be filled full in many places. And then there's all of the American LP/HP stuff which is where it gets very confusing. I think they mostly are the same cylinders but usually rated for significantly lower pressures. The key takeaway here is that you can't just say steels are heavy. Most are and I guess in most places they all are, but at least mention that somewhere people have options.
I have two sets of steel cylinders and they're both what I call neutrally buoyant. The 12/200 is about 2 kg lighter than an S80. The stamped weight on the 7/200 is less than 7 kg, wearing those is like having no tanks at all.
Otherwise great content, cheers! ;)
@@valtterimattila570 Yes for sure. I think your point is understanding the characteristics of cylinders and choosing accordingly. That aligns well with what I was saying here albeit with a limited set of cylinder choices. I dived 300Bar 7L Steels last time in Australia. They were unbelievably heavy when full and on my first dive with them I was drastically overweighted and they held really badly. Next dive, I took off all of my weight and adjusted the clip position and loop bungee. The result is the small cave dive clip you see of me in Pines cave at 5'50". Thanks for your comment :)
This is a great explanation of the reasons/purposes of using one tank vs another.
I've got all of those configurations and love them all!
Thanks so much for the video, Steve! It's been super helpful. One thing I’d really love to see is a detailed breakdown of the differences between cylinder manufacturers and sizes. For example, comparing the characteristics of a Faber 12 vs. Euro 12 with as many variations as possible. I’ve been experimenting with different steels lately, but it feels like a bit of a minefield. It would be amazing to see info on trim characteristics, buoyancy full vs. empty, size variations (7, 8.5, 10, 12), and differences between brands. I understand this is a huge ask 😂 but maybe there’s a top sidemount cylinder out there that is just considered the best you could recommend?
For context, I currently have Faber 10s and 7s, and I recently tried Euro 8.5s with flat bottoms but they were terrible-should’ve gone with round bottoms! Thanks again for all your great content!
Yes, if you search online there are a few tables out there. Generally, 12L steels and 11L AL are your go-to's for most sidemount diving. Then you can see what 12L variants are available and try them out. While there are differences for sure, you can dive them and see how they feel and work and then iterate your setup to accommodate them.
Great summary Steve 🙏 I am taking my MOD1 at Protec in the end of this year and was really planning to discuss with my instructor at that time about the option of transitioning my current OC configuration (12L steels round bottoms) to 7L steels when doing rec dives with the sidewinder at home. I manage my own equipment all by myself without help currently but with additional CCR, the less weight and volumes I need to manage outside the water, honestly the better :) In Portugal sea conditions are similar to yours (salt water, temps 13-18, some times Atlantic moody currents 😅) And once I’m on the sidewinder I want to have the most “enjoyable” bailout system). Would absolutely love to have your feedback. Thank you! 👌
Hey Ana, that is awesome, you will be in very good hands at Protec. They tend to use 11L AL cylinders (80cuft) but you could ask about the 7L steels. I trained on them with Edd Sorenson. To be honest it is not that difficult to transition between cylinders. I'll make that the next video i.e. what do you have to consider and do to your sidemount system as you move from Steel to AL or vice versa. and also from 12L Steel to 7L. I do this a lot in my own diving.
@@sidemountprosthank you so much for the reply. Will be waiting for the next episode sounds great! 👌🙏
Thanks for another great video. Are the weights you mentioned quoted when the air is fully filled up?"
Yes, both cylinders were full to 200 bar.
What about the Faber steel Light 12, I Love the Cylinders in freshwater with thick undergarment and a Drysuit.
@@dirkrosemann1123 I've never tried them but I am sure they would be great. You are spoiled for choice in Europe with so many cylinders to choose from. I dived I think Eurosteel concave cylinders in Gozo. They were my favourites :)
Hi Steve- how much does the length of your cylinder effect your movement whilst finning if you have a short torso and longer legs or the other way round?
Your body shape is a consideration, but I've never found shorter cylinders to be a good answer for shorter people. There are a lot of phenomenal divers and Natalie Gibb and Arielle Ginsberg come to mind, who are short in stature but dive Ali 80s (11L) exceptionally well. Back to my point in this video, if at all possible, choose the cylinder that suits the exposure protection, dive environment and dive plan.
I am surprised Steve (and some commentors below) filling steels to only 200. I get grumpy when my LDS gives me less than 230...as they are rated.
Yep, I feel ya. The issue is fill pressure vs what it settles to. If they fill to 232 Bar then depending on the fill speed and temp it is going to drop back to 210 or so. Generally in NZ we have to be happy if we get over 200 Bar. The gas filling is very heavily regulated and there are some very bizarre rules that we have to follow :(.
@@sidemountpros Yeah roger that. Its mostly a time and energy issue here in AU... only a few operators (I know) can be bothered to top-up again after they cool down ;)
Would have been worth mentioning that using 12L steels will make diving no-mount pretty cumbersome ...for that reason I'm just not using steels for SM
I did do that when referring to the benefits of AL cylinders. Steels are not the right tool for dives requiring the removal of one or more cylinders including, of course, stages.
@@sidemountpros I thought that was made clear Steve. I love my steels too and don't have a legitimate need to remove them under water.. just when dikn around only ;)