Nice video! I really like this format, introducing all the people and letting them give an update on what they are doing. Hope you'll continue with this for the other engineering departments.
I have reserved a Aptera with the 400 mile range, and the full compliment of solar cells on the vehicle....What could be really cool would be to have a plug in to connect fold-able solar panels that you could carry in the back and deploy next to the Aptera when parked!
I wish you all great success in your endeavors and can't wait to own an Aptera. This has to be one of the most impressive vehicles out there so far. Thank You all for the updates.
Thank you for posting this videos and getting a direct update from the individual stake holders on the team, that puts us very close. I prefer to hear more about Aptera from Aptera directly rather than from any other channel or opinion on youtube.
Thank you for the update! It's great to hear from the individual team members--I enjoyed that aspect of the video. Very much looking forward to this vehicle. Kudos folks! Keep it up! (...now I need to let my exclamation key cool down. ;-) )
@@ApteraMotors I'm curious what battery breakthroughs on the horizon have your team's attention. Have you guys considered solid state batteries at some point? Or any of the other upcoming breakthroughs that have your eye?
@@aussieideasman8498 You don't know what you are talking about. There are 6 packs making up the 41kwh power supply. Clearly there is nothing "off the shelf" and certainly the individual packs are no more than 7kwh.
@@rwo6211 Aussie has been taking every chance he gets to throw shit at the wall. Anything to help his pathetic anti-Aptera channel grow in subs. Just ignore him. :P
@@rwo6211 Hi, I see you have met our pet troll. They keep him around so that he brings the site ratings up. As soon as the ratings are high enough they will block him. In the mean time he is a pawn that thinks he is a king. 🥳
I agree, I like this format, hearing from the people doing the work. I hope they offer tours of the production facility one day. That would make ordering a car so much more interesting.
great to meet some of the battery engineering team! sounds like you guys are solving all the right problems! love the video! Thanks for sharing this with us and keep it up team!
@@vic321344 Bruce referred to Aptera, the company. Bruce is not Aptera. Besides, when the peanut gallery complains that Aptera isn't making progress fast enough, responding with a comparison to Tesla is a perfectly relevant way to counter the argument. The intent isn't to "put Tesla down". Y'all are just butt hurt that you can't counter argue Bruce's counter argument, so you are desperate to throw some shade Bruce's way.
@@vic321344 Tesla did not "build a car" They took 6 years do do an EV conversion of the Lotus Elise. I was working in Union city while they did this and knew many of the engineers.
@@n.brucenelson5920 Funny thing is, these trolls are increasing the amount of engagement for these videos. This is actually good for the video channel. And everyone who wants to divert attention from a Sustainable Solar Electric Vehicle is actually creating the Streisand Effect, even if they might be paid from the big fossil-fuel companies. It's actually kind of hilarious to watch the slow demise of fossil-fuel unfold. And now that we're in a deep recession, me wonders if companies such as GM which did not fare well during a much milder recession will survive. They were bailed out, only to sleep on their laurels and go into coast mode. They are probably prepping golden parachutes for the top brass executives and board members as we speak. How long from now do we give Mary Bara as head of GM. At least Ford was smart enough to split off EVs into a separate division to help immunise them from the impending doom of the ICE era.
@@aussieideasman8498 Well, that you are claiming to have a unicorn or to at least see one to sell us is all we need to know about your credibility I guess
Awesome - what I learned from this is we finally have a production intent battery. The rest becomes fluff, interesting fluff, but fluff. Its really good to see critical components getting to production intent. There is a lot (I mean A LOT) to do between now and delivering cars, but this is one big key piece of the puzzle of getting the car ready. Good work battery team! I look forward to getting to drive my Aptera someday. You just brought that day into focus a little bit better!
@@aussieideasman8498 Hey Hey, bad day, jealousy or a pessimist mind? Hope you get your own hopes up😉👍. Focus on positivity on your end and do not try to put your bad vibes on others. You can criticize all you want, but be constructive and not destructive. Thank you!
BYD builds LFP blade batteries not CATL. I saw them when I was at BYD last year. Check your spelling. You have no knowledge of battery engineering do you.
@@vic321344 Hi Vic, they show some Samsung cells .... how do you know that is the brand they will use in production? The CELL cost for bulk lithium batteries is around $US135/kWh ..... so the CELL cost is $5400 for 40kWh. Why is the price that you have calculated triple the cell cost? How did you calculate that? I understand there are other components and assembly but not US10,000 worth. That does not sound reasonable.
@@vic321344 Right at the beginning, they say they have a milestone, they are finishing up the production intent battery. I'll just take them at their word, though I don't think they showed it in the video. Keep in mind, production intent is not the same as production ready. But it does mean they can start locking things down and move forward towards being production ready. Some things most likely will still change, but they should be minor, but yes, issues will come up as they fit it with the production intent frame and the production intent cooling system and the production intent charging system and try to get it all to work in the car in a way they can actually build and manufacturer them. These changes should be things like needing to run some wiring a bit different, a bolt hole needs to move over slightly, getting the cooling lines setup for easier attachment, whatever. Might not have any issues, but very likely, some little things. I'm hoping they spent a bit of time figuring out if this battery pack will upscale to the 600 mile range car without the need to totally redo it. At the same time, I'm assuming the 1000 mile range car (which is what I want) is still very much a work in progress.
Thank you for allowing us to meet the enthusiastic innovators at Aptera and for keeping us abreast of your progress. We love you for who you are and what you are doing. The best of luck to you all.
Aptera is a time machine!! You heard it here first, folks!! Aim's figuring all this stuff out before our very eyes right here in the YT comments field.
This vehicle must be completed and brought to market. I am a small investor and reservation holder. I am confident APTERA will do it right and begin producing these machines safely and efficiently. Please continue with this most important work.
Very interesting, Aptera is taking us all on the development and aspects from start to finish, I have never seen any other I mean any that let us see what they are actually designing and allowing us the Aptera pre order early ones who can not wait to take Delivery 😎
@@aussieideasman8498 Did you not see that there are patent worthy advances? Not paying attention, we see. Or you didn't understand the significance of what they showed.
@@n.brucenelson5920 No idea how people can have so much time in their day - and just to spread false negativity. Maybe Aptera has some competitors that are willing to pay someone to troll small TH-cam channels all day? Ironically, they're probably boosting the channel's TH-cam algorithm, since it's going to read all the comments as engagement.
@@n.brucenelson5920 It seems this is not a matter of him not paying attention. Seems more like he's got an agenda. There's nobody more blind than those who don't want to see.
Great video, would have liked to hear more about thermal management of the pack, to ensure longevity in high/low temperature and fast charging operation. Let’s not have a Nissan Leaf situation.
I was going to comment about this exact issue. Their battery will be significantly degraded in 5 years without thermal management. Their prototype battery pack does not look like they have cooling coils around the batteries.
🔌333 MPGe gives this super-efficient Aptera bragging rights. The average electricity rate in the USA is 10.42 cents per kilowatt-hour so that works out to 1.07 cents/mile for Aptera versus 17.24 cents/mile for light-duty gasoline vehicles that average 25.7 MPG using today's national average regular fuel rate of $4.43/gallon. If you travel 1000 miles per month Aptera would cost you $10.70 compared to $172.40 for light-duty vehicles. This gives Aptera owners an out-of-pocket green savings of $1,940.00/year without the full solar package while at the same time going environmentally green. 🔌
Furthermore I expect substantially lower maintenance costs compared to ICE vehicles, lower insurance rates compared to 4-wheelers, no rust repairs at higher age of the vehicle, leave alone that in case of slight collisions only scratches will ocurr instead of much more expensive to be repaired dings.
@@aussieideasman8498🔌 I agree batteries are a very efficient energy storage device for transportation vehicles but not the only solution. I am an old power generation engineer for the world's largest diesel engine company. We also manufacture battery, compressed hydrogen, natural gas, and propane power trains for trucks, ships, trains, generators, planes, buses, farming equipment, and generators. We need to realize each one of these fuels and/or storage devices has its pluses and minuses. Cost per mile and the release of CO2 and NOx need to be considered in the equation from the production of the fuel to final delivery. This is where hydrogen and batteries pull ahead.🔌
@@vic321344 🔌It is more efficient and better for the environment than my Triumph Rocket 3 motorcycle and Dodge truck with its Cummins 6.7L turbo diesel engine. I am looking for something fun to drive when it is over 110F outside like later this month that will let me go over 500 miles without a fuel stop in the upper desert rocky mountain twisties.🔌
Aptera, you have a standing invitation to Costa Rica, where we are already changing to mostly electric vehicles already. We could be the pre-production lab for the bigger markets too.
I'm glad to see efficiency as the prime driver, but I hope replaceability is also on the radar. I see a lot of EV's on the market today that don't think about end of life of the battery pack. All batteries degrade, so let's plan for that. I don't expect the battery to be hot swappable in 5 minutes, but you also shouldn't have to literally tear the car apart to do it. With improving battery tech, it could mean that your next battery pack in 8-12 years from now might even be an upgrade from the original in terms of weight and/or capacity.
Congrats on hitting the new milestone. It's nice to see the progress they've been making. I wonder if they're experimenting with other battery tech like LTO or LFP also.
@@aussieideasman8498 Look at Aptera Owner's Clubs breakdown if you need things spelled out for you. It is obvious that you have no grasp of the tech involved.
You can't buy one before they are in production anyway. But you can pre-order one already by depositing a refundable $ 100 payment in order to keep the waiting time as short as possible, if that should be an issue at all. For me at least, every additional year of waiting for the Aptera would cost me about $ 3000 at least (gasoline, maintenance, higher insurance rates and taxes).
I am hoping that the software has some sort of mile per gallon equivalent measure to help track efficiency. The idea of getting 400+ miles from the equivalent of 1.2 gallons is amazing. I am looking forward to getting mine.
I would like to see this as well. It should be simple to display MPGe, since we know that a gallon of gasoline/petrol contains 33.7 kilowatt-hours of energy. The rest is just basic math.
@@vic321344 the Aptera is an autocycle! If you would like an education on the difference let me know! I see you are confused on several Aptera features so I suggest you should listen more and speak less until you fully understand Aptera and how it is different and more efficient than any other ev offered today!
I didn't see any mention of thermal management. How do you keep this battery from getting too hot or too cold due to climate conditions? Also as the battery is under load and DCFC how do you control temps to keep this battery healthy?
Hi there! Our battery engineers have taken this type of event into account- Aptera is designed with a great battery management system that activates cooling or shuts down power in a situation that could endanger the battery pack. Our battery management system protects our battery pack from overcharging, and our solar charging systems charge at low rates so the batteries stay cool during the process.
Aptera has circulating liquid antifreeze both to the wheel motors and the battery pack. If stationary and under charging load, the AC system kicks in and flows cold air over the inside of the belly pan and through the AC condenser, to exit the hot air out the rear.
@@Longsnowsm I don't know the details, yet. I do know that the body has dramatically better thermal insulation than most metal body cars. I will be testing their performance in all weather conditions in Iowa with an early model and report. We have more details when delta is released.
Great question! Many cells can fail in our pack design before things need to be replaced, and if replacement is needed, you would only need to replace the pack itself. The replacement costs will vary, but we expect them to be less than any other EV as our packs are smaller for a given range. Please stay tuned for exact answers regarding our battery warranty and repair/replacement cost and plan as we get closer to production time. Thanks for watching!
@@ApteraMotors by "replace the pack itself" do you mean one of the six 416 cell packs that has been identified as faulty? Or do you mean replacing the entire 2,496 cell 6 pack battery assembly?
@@rwo6211 Probably the entire pack assembly. Due to right to repair, a knowledgeable owner or third party could probably do other work at their own risk.
@@n.brucenelson5920 I question that any owner who is not trained to work with high voltage should be doing this work in spite of right to repair. I also believe that Aptera should either prohibit or restrict this kind of effort to only those that can verify training to handle high voltage to limit liability.
Hi! Many cells can fail in our pack design before things need to be replaced, and if replacement is needed, you would only need to replace the pack itself. We expect to offer a 10-year warranty on the high-voltage battery pack. The replacement costs will vary, but they should be far less than any other EV, as our packs are smaller for a given range. We will have exact answers regarding our battery warranty and repair/replacement cost and plan as we get closer to production time. 😊
Wishlist for Aptera. 1. Side curtain and seat airbags 2. Airbags integrated into the cabin and not seatbelt. 3. A more ergonomic yolk. A yolk is fine but the yolk I've seen from you guys has little area to grab. It needs more area towards its axis of rotation. More physical controls wouldn't hurt either. 4. Two headlights in the front instead of the single unit I've been seeing (I'm not talking about the drl). People coming from cars would find the center headlamp jarring. 5. A larger screen for the driver display. One that can display speed, navigation and side camera feeds all at the same time. 6. The rear view mirror display should move in front of the driver so you don't have to take your eyes away from the road when viewing it. (Take advantage of the benefits of cameras and displays) You can also have a regular rear view mirror too. It wouldn't hurt. 7. Design wise. Minimize the amber on the front wheels. And eliminate the asymmetrical and protruding bezels from the displays.
"20% more energy density compared to other leading EVs on the road today." If all these hypes are proven out in the real world, then the name Aptera is going to be synonymous with efficiency. Ride on Aptera!✌ We are with you.
@@vic321344 If it was easy wouldn't everybody do it? I had no idea a battery could have so many engineers working around it. I like this company more and more and more.... I own shares and pre-ordered to 60 kwh..... maybe a 62.
Cooling is also important and heating of the cells in the winter is even more important... I hope they just sacrifice on metal structure and use the monocoque body instead as the main protection layer to absorb heavy impacts.
@@vic321344 the best metall used to really transport heat is copper with chemical coolant inside everything else is not effective regarding the weight to heat transfer and this kind of metall is never used for structural integrity.
@@vic321344 I think air vents might make sense but cutting the bodypart out will just make no sense for cold environments... If they really want to push efficiency, they need to add closeable vents in the body to adjust or simply add watercooling.
@@vic321344 Of course the cooling system is active, with circulating antifreeze to remove heat. There are plenty of other significant details that they didn't go into but you should understand that they are not overlooking elementary details.
I wonder, will we be able to replace/add battery capacity as an owner? If I buy the 250 mile range and realize it's not enough capacity will I be able to upsize?
At least at first, the packs won't be able to be added to. It is possible that the entire pack could be replaced, but there may be some suspension adjustments required as well due to the increased weight.
Currently we are not planning to have the battery upgradable in segments. If you want a bigger pack you would have to replace the whole battery pack. This could be an option in the future!
Hi Mark! First - we have a team of lobbyists working on including 2 and 3-wheelers like Aptera in the credit. We're confident that when Aptera comes to market, we will have shown Congress that our sEV allows drivers to lessen their carbon footprint more than any other EV on the market.
I love everything aptera and these little snippets of progression are awesome but I remember when they said last year they were going to deliver production ready ones...just say 2025 and then at least it doesn't feel like dangling a carrot on a stick...
I'm a long time fan of Aptera and also invested back in the day. I love what you guys are doing and really appreciate these types of videos and how open everything is. One question I have is, what are you doing to to address the small, but real, possibility of battery thermal events? I work in the industry and know that a number of OEMs are adding a variety of fire and thermal resistant materials like mica sheet to encapsulate or sit on top of the battery pack to address this. Would love to hear what your approach is and if there is any interest would be happy to put you in contact with companies in this field :)
1:02 that ENIG PCB in the foreground seems like it's either a battery testing jig or indicates the true spacing they plan for in their modules. A PCB that big is probably pretty pricey.
@@vic321344 "Aptera Owners Club" visited Aptera about a month ago and did a video on the visit. In the video he talks to the thermal engineers and they show off their battery cooling plate. Still seems very much in testing, but at this time it does appear they are currently committed to the idea of a liqued cooling plate for the battery. It would be interesting to get a follow up from either Aptera or Aptera Owners Club on how there thermal management testing is going.
@@aussieideasman8498 You good man? You might be confusing other peoples comments for mine. I was just responding to vic321344 to share the source of info on why I thought Aptera was currently planning to use a cooling plate vs the no cooling option he mentioned. Never said he was wrong or I was right, just trying to be friendly by sharing the currently available information. IDK what all this talk about trying to convince me of a bad battery or thermal design is about when I haven't even stated an opinion either way? I have to admit I feel attacked for no reason my friend 😂
I looked up and back in November 2020, Chris Anthony messaged me; Right now we have 100KWh packaged under the seat, in the center tunnel, and behind the seats. And it all fits nicely with the rear storage in design position. But we are working on ways to move more weight forward in that package. This may change the production layout
@@vic321344 this prototype is not used for maximizing battery capacity. It just has enough for other component testing. 55-60KWh is a realistic goal to fit under the floor under the seats, 2 modules angled behind the seats but not in the storage area and perhaps some in the center tunnel area. 100KWh will take the longest engineering time. 41KWh will be made in production cars first, all under the floor under the seats, above the aluminum belly pan.
@@vic321344 they probably have licenses to the software for simulating crash testing accurately. They should be using it to see whether they are close or if they have a lot of improvement to do for gamma vehicles
@@vic321344 It is called parallel development. Part of efficient engineering and testing to save budget and time. Best used for related functionality so Agile methodology can be used to integrate the related functionality as both develop.
Yes, the battery will be liquid cooled. The liquid is then cooled by our skin cooling system, so we don't need to have any vents that would destroy aerodynamics.
Also, the 2023 Chevy bolt will sell for 26k. Why is the aptera selling for the same price when it has way less parts than the bolt and a smaller battery pack. Shouldn’t u be able to sell the aptera 250 range for around 20 k or does Chevy just have such huge buying power they are able to assemble the bolt for cheaper then the aptera.
Yes, Aptera is taking orders from Canada. The entire vehicle will be validated over a range of -20 to 125 F. Some of the battery components will be tested down to -40. It will have built in pack heating (and cooling), using liquid antifreeze.
Thanks guys for all your hard work! Stay with what you have for your launch vehicles. We need delivery to be prioritized so we can get these cars on the road! Going forward, though, please consider how those six modules might be engineered to be made removable, and multi-functional. The idea is this: It would be ideal if the Aptera, at least up to the 60 kWh 600 mile range version had battery modules that were in and out swappable so you could run with the lightest 25 kWh pack for daily low mileage uses, then add battery modules, say by adding up to five 7 kWh battery modules, as longer daily or trip needs make more capacity/range a necessity. This would be the most efficient solution for maxing out your vehicle's day to day efficiency since the dead weight issue of battery OVER capacity could then be managed. We could even share out or rent the extra battery modules within the Aptera community for those needing them only for infrequent vacay/family/friend trips. System wide the most efficient/shared/maximized use of battery storage capacity helps to justify each battery's mining, materials and production costs on our environment. I understand we owners might want to fine tune our vehicle's suspension to best accommodate these varying battery weight requirements. Perhaps Aptera could help engineer an easy system to accommodate this? Extra points if these removable battery modules could be engineered to also function as home power wall like power packs to keep frig, etc, running during power outages while we could still use our Apteras for any necessary transportation needs. This is better than a strict vehicle to home system which would immobilize our rides. Climate change enhanced disruptions are making our electric grid, at least in the near future, more unstable. And my full dream would be that these battery modules could also be monetized as electric grid support storage, both in and out of our Apteras. Thus individuals, nonprofits, and business could invest in them as an eco-friendly side hustle when $ assets were available, using them for steady income thereafter. The quicker we can ramp up available grid electric storage the quicker our economy can transition to renewable electric generation, and the more sustainable and healthier our future looks. And, if we choose to, we could then arrange for our battery assets to experience less down/idle time, helping to further justify their mining/manufacturing costs to our environment. These swappable multi-use battery modules would also be the easiest format to have when advancing battery tech/chemistries motivate upgrades, or for transitioning them to their second life re-use as stationary storage when our aging batteries lose adequate efficiency and capacity for transportation use. This modular format also seems most efficient and manageable for enabling each battery modules' ultimate recycled afterlife. Meanwhile our Aptera vehicle could easily live on, and even keep improving, perhaps with other modular upgrades (ching ching $$$), beyond its OG batteries' lifetime! A more easily attained longer life makes our Apteras all the more the most efficient and sustainable transportation solution out there. Could manufacturing and selling these versatile battery modules be Aptera's ace in the hole to profitability while fully supporting their most efficient and affordable vehicle transportation mission?
The problem with swappable battery modules is liquid cooling. If you want to be able to regulate battery temperature properly, it has to have antifreeze lines going through the pack. And that's gonna be a huge pain point for your swap procedure, full of O-rings and leaks and Teflon tape.
@@ps.2 There are no lines going through the pack. Aptera employs bottom cooling using an aluminum plate at the bottom of the packs with cooling channels and circulating liquid to heat/cool batteries as required
Thank Luke, Ahmed, Daniel, Ryan, Scott, Tom, and Diego! Thanks for the reassuring news. Not that it really matters, but I'm guessing each of the 6 packs' 416 cells is arranged 104 serial 4 parallel (104s4p)? And the six packs are connected in parallel (to keep the car running even if one or moe packs becomes disconnected)? If so, is the basic configuration 104s24p? If it is 104 serial, with the 3.7 nominal volt 2170's min/max voltage 2.5v-4.2v, is the nominal / minimum / maximum voltage of the pack 384.8v / 260v / 436.8v? I'm guessing you don't want to divulge (at least at this time) the cells' manufacturer name or the Amp hour capacity per cell?
Nice information, thank you! But just one question: How about the battery supply? Is it already secured by contracts? Or is this simply not an issue for small manufacturers? I really would be glad to hear something about this too.
Hi Markus! We are honored to share the road to solar mobility with you and will continue to keep everyone informed as we make progress. Stay tuned for upcoming announcements regarding supply chain progress soon!
Efficiency is nice, compact is great, but it makes me wonder: what about the cooling of the pack? We have seen in the last decade that thermal management is so important.
Better efficiency means needing to remove less heat, so it directly benefits cooling needs. The BMS will monitor temperature to keep the components safe. There could be some throttling of performance in hot weather. It is too early to predict this, but there will be more information coming.
@@n.brucenelson5920 Do we know anything yet about the efficiency of the on--board charger? Or a timeline for when Aptera's engineers will get the time to engineer in a heat pump HVAC? I am tempted to exchange out the heat pump from my 2013 LEAF into my Accelerator LE. It rapidly gets that car's ambient air toasty. Still I am confident that when Aptera takes on the challenge they will make it all the better, and my Aptera cabin will not require near the LEAF's cubic feet of capacity. It would be nice if Aptera's BMS could direct battery heat passenger's way when they wish it.
@@vic321344 If you are referring to the video on the cooling plate it does pertain to the battery pack in this video. The batteries are bottom cooled just like Tesla is moving to. So these packs rest on top of the cooling plate (My spelling getting better?)
Looking at the FAQ on your site, it mentions being able to replace battery packs. Will this be available as battery technology advances? For example, I see that science is testing new batteries to replace the popular lithium-ion batteries that are in most devices now. If this technology becomes a new standard, would you provide new battery packs using such technology that can be swapped into early models of the Aptera or would this require an all-new design for the vehicle?
I certainly hope 25kwh gets priority over the 60-100kwh versions. Too much extra engineering to suspension likely would be needed to make those even feasible - since driving dynamics would be totally different as the pack neccesarily extended rearward and added hundreds of pounds to overall weight. And, to what end? There is no benefit to having a 60kwh pack over a 40kwh pack in this vehicle. If taking a 1000 mile nonstop drive, the 60kwh version would save you less than 30 minutes of dc fast charging. Whoopty-doo.
@@personmcpersonface8796 I tend to agree with you. The announced order has the 60 kWh versions next, then the 25 kWh and the 10 kWh last. As we see with the 40 kWh packs, these are nominal sizes and not the exact final pack size.
I just learned about Aptera. It seems like the word is starting to get out there. I'll be putting in my order for a 1,000 mile variant soon. Looking forward to more info on weight/performance between the different battery capacities. This converted me from considering a Tesla as my first EV. Their designs are too conventional even the cybertruck in comparison to Aptera.
@@limwang6241 Aussie likes to create ideas in his head, assume they are true, and bullshit on every single video talking about the Aptera in a failed attempt to grow his own channel.
I’m seriously considering to pre order an aptera!, i’m only wondering How is the battery pack going to be cooled? I had the fist generation Nissan leaf, and the battery lost a lot of capacity becouse the lack of cooling i guess with fast charging.
Yes. Aptera will be able to fast charge at 50 kW DC and gain up to 500 miles per hour of range when charging on one. The Aptera nominal pack voltage is 350 with a peak of 402.
I would like to know what the battery pack configuration and weight will be (60 Kwh version). The video shows a 2 x 3 configuration for the 41 KWh pack. Is this 3 wide by 2 from to back. If so that means only one additional row is required for the 60 Kwh pack (9 total required). Otherwise the length of the battery pack becomes problematic at the 100 Kwh size. Will the 100 Kwh pack have a different form factor? What is each modules weight? 40 - 50 lbs ??
1. How fast will these packs recharge? 2. Where are the cooling channels for the batteries? 3. Will the packs be upgradable? E.g. start with 2 when ordering, but add 3rd/4th in the future to the vehicle?
With a 50 kW fast charger, they will charge at a rate of 500 miles range per hour added. There is antifreeze circulating over the battery pack end plates to carry heat to an aluminum bottom skin. The packs are not modular at present. You would have to replace an entire pack and possibly suspension components to upgrade. This could be a goal for the future.
@@harryvantrotsenburg5481 I know that the pack temperature is regulated. I don't know the details, but if they are cold, they can be warmed - by the antifreeze solution which can be warmed either by the motors, or electrically with power coming from a plug or the batteries themselves.
@@n.brucenelson5920 it is the PRE heating which is important. I am now driving the very simple Dacia Spring, and when below 9 degrees Celsius loading becomes slow. It is very important that we can Pre hear the battery pack. When the Aptera does not give this option I won't buy it....
@@harryvantrotsenburg5481 Ask this question it the January 20th webinar. I live in Iowa where we had a recent below zero stretch and it is important to me, too.
Aptera practices continuous improvement, so we will likely see changes as the tech improves and costs come down. Aptera can accept a 50 kW DC input, and charge at the rate of 500 miles per hour.
Which chemistry do you use now? NMC? and from which supplier? I use Samsung 30q and molicell p42 right now, would be nice to know! Greetings from a German Ambassador!
@@JeppeRito Interesting. I copied that part number from one of their old videos. It wouldn't surprise me if they are using the 50D or 50G. Thanks for the correction.
Not a ton of nerdy info. Wish they would talk about the voltage, assuming it's 400v. And maybe talk about the connector, I remember early prototypes using the Tesla connector. But since Tesla seems to be adding ccs to their stations it would make sense to just have CCS like every other car.
Likely 400 V. No need for 800 because of the quick miles per kWh due to the Roadster’s effeminacy. I’m hoping for a J1772/CCS charge plug. Standards matter.
How long does it take to charge? What is the energy used to charge it compared to a household appliance? I heard another company takes hours and is same energy as a washer or dryer to charge.
How long depends on what you plug it into, or if charging by solar, how many solar panels you have. Fastest is DC fast charging at 50 KW. So charging your 40 KWH from 10% to 80% (a typical road trip fast charge) requires 70% of 40 KWH = 28 KWH. At 50 KW that works out to about 34 minutes for 280 miles. Slow solar charging with full solar package on a clear sunny day is 40 miles per day (4 KWH per day). At 240 volts AC (an electric dryer outlet for example) it charges at a rate of 6.6 KW = 66 miles per hour.
@@MTB214 DC fast chargers don't fit in homes. DC fast chargers at 50 KW takes industrial levels of at least 480 volt, 3 phase higher voltage AC power, each, and so a set of them requires their own substation from the utility company. My whole home is wired for 200 amps of 240 volts AC. (Older homes have only half of that.) 200 amps x 240 volts = 48000 watts = 48 KW, not enough for a single DC fast charger.
@@MTB214 Well, I read and watch TH-cam videos a lot. 8-) And I work on DIY projects. I own an electric car, the 2014 Chevy Volt, and designed a portable solar charger for it. I stopped working on that when I found out about Aptera. I learned the basics of electricity by reading, and by majoring in Physics and Electrical Engineering.
Absolutely. It is a key issue for consultant Sandy Munro as well. Aptera offers right to repair, and will not limit who can work on your Aptera or who you get parts from. The repair documents will be open source and the vehicle will have QR codes throughout that will pull up repair videos for that area.
Can we buy the small battery with the car and then add additional batteries later. This matters from both a financing and tax level. I would rather start with a shorter range than to finance the purchase of a battery. My state charges property tax on cars based on initial car price. I would rather not have to pay property tax on a large battery every year.
You can upgrade your battery pack any time prior to delivery once logged into your Aptera account and upon confirmation of the final configuration of your Aptera. However, currently, we are not planning to have the battery upgradable in segments. If you want a bigger pack you would have to replace the whole battery pack. This could be an option in the future! Our goal is to build this vehicle in a very modular fashion to keep the cost low and hopefully help us scale really quickly.
Based on these numbers I really wonder about the 250 mile. If it has 4 modules it will have an extra 30-40 miles of range and if it has 3 it will only have 210-220. The 1000 mile will need 18-20 modules due to impact of the weight.
@@lewevans2413 Yes but ... I've read that a typical EV battery weight is about 10 lbs per KWH. In that case the difference in weight between 25 and 40 KWH is about 150 lbs or perhaps 20% less, so about 120 lbs.? -- a small passenger.
@@fotoguru222 Hi Harry, have not calculated that number, but sure. 120lb is a reasonable number. In a heavy car it would not make a big difference ..... but in a very light vehicle it makes a big difference.
Better. Some good information. "Limited production" later this year? What does that mean? I'll be surprised to see an Aptera a purchaser's hands before the end of '23.
@@vic321344 No. Both the suspension and the seating have changed since the one I rode in and this has probably changed since the prototypes. I think we need to wait for the gamma vehicles to know exactly.
I assume that your references to energy density were volumetric due to the nature of the vehicle and since you showed lots of 18650 form factor cells. Could you share why you made that choice? I'm guessing 21700 availability being lower is a consideration.
When Aptera gives range figures, they are referring to the specific conditions of the EPA Highway cycle. How much range you will get will depend on many factors, including how much buffer you wish to leave in your battery. Many of these factors are under your control. Some such as the weather and altitude are less so.
Great looking battery pack designs! I hope the component suppliers are ready! You're on Beta prototypes and still want to do Delta and then Gamma. Even if the Deltas roll out next month, in June, and are done testing in October when the Gamma team rolls out (we hope, right?), how do we get done with government testing and into production before Feb 2023? Not trying to naysay, things are looking good. It just seems like all other companies are still a few months behind.
Watched the video now 3 times, tells you what they are doing to make the battery, how efficient it is, all the information isn't in this video. Is it llithium batteries? Or a different kind that should last longer. Also didn't say anything about how man miles it might last either. Explaining how they are building them.
@@paul6247 Some of this information was contained in the film itself, including the manufacturer and model. See th-cam.com/video/nXNYlMqQ0Jk/w-d-xo.html For an analysis of the information revealed in the video.
Nice video! I really like this format, introducing all the people and letting them give an update on what they are doing. Hope you'll continue with this for the other engineering departments.
I have reserved a Aptera with the 400 mile range, and the full compliment of solar cells on the vehicle....What could be really cool would be to have a plug in to connect fold-able solar panels that you could carry in the back and deploy next to the Aptera when parked!
What I would like to add is that these fold-able solar panels could be made by Aptera or they could support a ready made fold-able solar panel.
Reserved last night! So stoked to get this vehicle.
Thank you for joining our movement- wishing you the warmest welcome to the future Aptera owners' community! ☀️
I wish you all great success in your endeavors and can't wait to own an Aptera. This has to be one of the most impressive vehicles out there so far. Thank You all for the updates.
It’s nice to meet the battery team and get a glance into the heart of this auto cycle.
Thank you for posting this videos and getting a direct update from the individual stake holders on the team, that puts us very close. I prefer to hear more about Aptera from Aptera directly rather than from any other channel or opinion on youtube.
Thank you for the update! It's great to hear from the individual team members--I enjoyed that aspect of the video. Very much looking forward to this vehicle. Kudos folks! Keep it up! (...now I need to let my exclamation key cool down. ;-) )
I had no idea how much design and engineering is being invested in the batteries. Very exciting. Looks like a great team.
We're quite lucky to have a team of changemakers and problem solvers!
@@ApteraMotors I'm curious what battery breakthroughs on the horizon have your team's attention. Have you guys considered solid state batteries at some point? Or any of the other upcoming breakthroughs that have your eye?
@@aussieideasman8498 You don't know what you are talking about. There are 6 packs making up the 41kwh power supply. Clearly there is nothing "off the shelf" and certainly the individual packs are no more than 7kwh.
@@rwo6211 Aussie has been taking every chance he gets to throw shit at the wall. Anything to help his pathetic anti-Aptera channel grow in subs. Just ignore him. :P
@@rwo6211 Hi, I see you have met our pet troll.
They keep him around so that he brings the site ratings up.
As soon as the ratings are high enough they will block him.
In the mean time he is a pawn that thinks he is a king.
🥳
I agree, I like this format, hearing from the people doing the work. I hope they offer tours of the production facility one day. That would make ordering a car so much more interesting.
Kudos and Respect to all these folks working to make a ground-breaking vehicle.
great to meet some of the battery engineering team! sounds like you guys are solving all the right problems! love the video! Thanks for sharing this with us and keep it up team!
Thanks for watching! Can't wait to share more as we get closer to production.
@@ApteraMotors my next recommended video is a news report about how many Tesla EV's failed German import inspection.
😂
@@copcuffs9973 Aptera does not need to be putting other manufacturers down. They are part of the rising tide.
@@vic321344 Bruce referred to Aptera, the company. Bruce is not Aptera. Besides, when the peanut gallery complains that Aptera isn't making progress fast enough, responding with a comparison to Tesla is a perfectly relevant way to counter the argument. The intent isn't to "put Tesla down". Y'all are just butt hurt that you can't counter argue Bruce's counter argument, so you are desperate to throw some shade Bruce's way.
@@vic321344 Tesla did not "build a car" They took 6 years do do an EV conversion of the Lotus Elise. I was working in Union city while they did this and knew many of the engineers.
This really energizes me. I’m charged up and excited to take delivery of my efficient and exciting Aptera!
@@aussieideasman8498 No one is buying what you are selling.
@@aussieideasman8498 We know.
@@aussieideasman8498 Before or after you've been impaled on it's horn? :)
@@n.brucenelson5920 Funny thing is, these trolls are increasing the amount of engagement for these videos. This is actually good for the video channel. And everyone who wants to divert attention from a Sustainable Solar Electric Vehicle is actually creating the Streisand Effect, even if they might be paid from the big fossil-fuel companies. It's actually kind of hilarious to watch the slow demise of fossil-fuel unfold. And now that we're in a deep recession, me wonders if companies such as GM which did not fare well during a much milder recession will survive. They were bailed out, only to sleep on their laurels and go into coast mode. They are probably prepping golden parachutes for the top brass executives and board members as we speak. How long from now do we give Mary Bara as head of GM. At least Ford was smart enough to split off EVs into a separate division to help immunise them from the impending doom of the ICE era.
@@aussieideasman8498 Well, that you are claiming to have a unicorn or to at least see one to sell us is all we need to know about your credibility I guess
Awesome - what I learned from this is we finally have a production intent battery. The rest becomes fluff, interesting fluff, but fluff. Its really good to see critical components getting to production intent. There is a lot (I mean A LOT) to do between now and delivering cars, but this is one big key piece of the puzzle of getting the car ready.
Good work battery team! I look forward to getting to drive my Aptera someday. You just brought that day into focus a little bit better!
@@aussieideasman8498 Hey Hey, bad day, jealousy or a pessimist mind? Hope you get your own hopes up😉👍. Focus on positivity on your end and do not try to put your bad vibes on others.
You can criticize all you want, but be constructive and not destructive. Thank you!
@@vic321344 Hi Vic, why is it not the final production intent battery?
BYD builds LFP blade batteries not CATL. I saw them when I was at BYD last year. Check your spelling. You have no knowledge of battery engineering do you.
@@vic321344 Hi Vic, they show some Samsung cells .... how do you know that is the brand they will use in production?
The CELL cost for bulk lithium batteries is around $US135/kWh ..... so the CELL cost is $5400 for 40kWh. Why is the price that you have calculated triple the cell cost? How did you calculate that?
I understand there are other components and assembly but not US10,000 worth. That does not sound reasonable.
@@vic321344 Right at the beginning, they say they have a milestone, they are finishing up the production intent battery. I'll just take them at their word, though I don't think they showed it in the video.
Keep in mind, production intent is not the same as production ready. But it does mean they can start locking things down and move forward towards being production ready. Some things most likely will still change, but they should be minor, but yes, issues will come up as they fit it with the production intent frame and the production intent cooling system and the production intent charging system and try to get it all to work in the car in a way they can actually build and manufacturer them.
These changes should be things like needing to run some wiring a bit different, a bolt hole needs to move over slightly, getting the cooling lines setup for easier attachment, whatever. Might not have any issues, but very likely, some little things.
I'm hoping they spent a bit of time figuring out if this battery pack will upscale to the 600 mile range car without the need to totally redo it. At the same time, I'm assuming the 1000 mile range car (which is what I want) is still very much a work in progress.
Thank you for allowing us to meet the enthusiastic innovators at Aptera and for keeping us abreast of your progress. We love you for who you are and what you are doing. The best of luck to you all.
Love Aptera! Been a follower since the beginning.
Thanks for your support!
Aptera is a time machine!! You heard it here first, folks!! Aim's figuring all this stuff out before our very eyes right here in the YT comments field.
This vehicle must be completed and brought to market. I am a small investor and reservation holder. I am confident APTERA will do it right and begin producing these machines safely and efficiently. Please continue with this most important work.
Very interesting, Aptera is taking us all on the development and aspects from start to finish, I have never seen any other I mean any that let us see what they are actually designing and allowing us the Aptera pre order early ones who can not wait to take Delivery 😎
Great to see the progress from the members of the team themselves. You guys rock!
@@aussieideasman8498 Troll. I suggest you watch and actually listen. There is, indeed, significant content.
@@aussieideasman8498 Did you not see that there are patent worthy advances? Not paying attention, we see. Or you didn't understand the significance of what they showed.
@@vic321344 You seem to be able to comment all day and provide no information of significance.
@@n.brucenelson5920 No idea how people can have so much time in their day - and just to spread false negativity.
Maybe Aptera has some competitors that are willing to pay someone to troll small TH-cam channels all day?
Ironically, they're probably boosting the channel's TH-cam algorithm, since it's going to read all the comments as engagement.
@@n.brucenelson5920 It seems this is not a matter of him not paying attention. Seems more like he's got an agenda. There's nobody more blind than those who don't want to see.
Great video, would have liked to hear more about thermal management of the pack, to ensure longevity in high/low temperature and fast charging operation. Let’s not have a Nissan Leaf situation.
I was going to comment about this exact issue. Their battery will be significantly degraded in 5 years without thermal management. Their prototype battery pack does not look like they have cooling coils around the batteries.
Love these engineering videos!
Glad to hear it! We can't wait to share more along the way. Thanks for watching!
Talk about efficient. 1.2 gal of gas energy equivalent to go 400 miles! Keep up the great work aptera!
Aptera the MOST transparent company ever. Can't wait to get mine!
@@vic321344 Vic makes plenty of false claims regarding tech I have seen with my own eyes. I just wonder why?
@@n.brucenelson5920 I think a "Spring Butt" wants attention and recognition
I'm getting so excited to buy my Apetera. Let's Go!!!!!!!!!!
Thank You for All that you are doing for our Planet Earth.... Peace.. Shalom.. Salam.. Namaste .. 🙏🏻 😊 🌈 ✌ 🌷 ☮ ❤🕊
Well done! I am so glad we got to hear directly from those involved.
@@aussieideasman8498 Find the 'unmute' button on your computer and press it before playing the video. There, fixed the problem for you!
@@aussieideasman8498 See the Aptera Owners club review of this video, since you clearly have to be spoon fed.
@@aussieideasman8498 Excellent trolling. Keep up the good work Mr Eric Lawton from Brisbane.
@@aussieideasman8498 Cmon, you know I love you ...... Even if you hardly achieve excellence.
@@aussieideasman8498 I will always love you if you love me back. I only exist for you.
🔌333 MPGe gives this super-efficient Aptera bragging rights. The average electricity rate in the USA is 10.42 cents per kilowatt-hour so that works out to 1.07 cents/mile for Aptera versus 17.24 cents/mile for light-duty gasoline vehicles that average 25.7 MPG using today's national average regular fuel rate of $4.43/gallon. If you travel 1000 miles per month Aptera would cost you $10.70 compared to $172.40 for light-duty vehicles. This gives Aptera owners an out-of-pocket green savings of $1,940.00/year without the full solar package while at the same time going environmentally green. 🔌
Furthermore I expect substantially lower maintenance costs compared to ICE vehicles, lower insurance rates compared to 4-wheelers, no rust repairs at higher age of the vehicle, leave alone that in case of slight collisions only scratches will ocurr instead of much more expensive to be repaired dings.
@@aussieideasman8498🔌 I agree batteries are a very efficient energy storage device for transportation vehicles but not the only solution. I am an old power generation engineer for the world's largest diesel engine company. We also manufacture battery, compressed hydrogen, natural gas, and propane power trains for trucks, ships, trains, generators, planes, buses, farming equipment, and generators. We need to realize each one of these fuels and/or storage devices has its pluses and minuses. Cost per mile and the release of CO2 and NOx need to be considered in the equation from the production of the fuel to final delivery. This is where hydrogen and batteries pull ahead.🔌
@@vic321344 🔌It is more efficient and better for the environment than my Triumph Rocket 3 motorcycle and Dodge truck with its Cummins 6.7L turbo diesel engine. I am looking for something fun to drive when it is over 110F outside like later this month that will let me go over 500 miles without a fuel stop in the upper desert rocky mountain twisties.🔌
Aptera, you have a standing invitation to Costa Rica, where we are already changing to mostly electric vehicles already. We could be the pre-production lab for the bigger markets too.
@@vic321344 Of course you know there is no such thing as a Bat Mobile so your analogy is pretty lame
Awesome nuanced information.
I will have to watch this video frame by frame to see what I see what I can see.
Charge on!
Awesome! Keep up the great work. Love Apteras innovation & transparency.
Great video update! I love the team effort going into the production of Aptera!
Thank you! We are successful through collaboration. There is great strength in numbers. :)
GO GET THEM GUYSSSSS!!!
Good to see them working on this. I wonder what a monstrosity of a challenge building a 100 kW battery for a car like this is. Good luck.
100? That would be like adding an anchor. Diminishing returns when you add lots of weight.
Nice to meet you guys! Love your work 🥳❤️
Thanks for following along 💚
Great update Team! This going to be such an awesome vehicle. Can't wait to own one.
I'm glad to see efficiency as the prime driver, but I hope replaceability is also on the radar. I see a lot of EV's on the market today that don't think about end of life of the battery pack. All batteries degrade, so let's plan for that. I don't expect the battery to be hot swappable in 5 minutes, but you also shouldn't have to literally tear the car apart to do it. With improving battery tech, it could mean that your next battery pack in 8-12 years from now might even be an upgrade from the original in terms of weight and/or capacity.
Congrats on hitting the new milestone. It's nice to see the progress they've been making. I wonder if they're experimenting with other battery tech like LTO or LFP also.
@@aussieideasman8498 Stupid question
@@aussieideasman8498 Not our problem if you can't figure it out. It's your problem.
@@jonj9149 I see he followed up a stupid question with a stupid comment. Typical
@@aussieideasman8498 Look at Aptera Owner's Clubs breakdown if you need things spelled out for you. It is obvious that you have no grasp of the tech involved.
@@n.brucenelson5920 He's probably not paid to understand the technology but to insert the FUD wherever the ICE dinosaurs need it. XD
I'm buying an Aptera as soon as they prove they're in production.
You can't buy one before they are in production anyway.
But you can pre-order one already by depositing a refundable $ 100 payment in order to keep the waiting time as short as possible, if that should be an issue at all.
For me at least, every additional year of waiting for the Aptera would cost me about $ 3000 at least (gasoline, maintenance, higher insurance rates and taxes).
Breaking new ground with this car!
👌👍👍🙏
Thanks... 🙌🙌👏👏
Greetings from Spain... "Saludos... 👋🙋 "
I am hoping that the software has some sort of mile per gallon equivalent measure to help track efficiency. The idea of getting 400+ miles from the equivalent of 1.2 gallons is amazing. I am looking forward to getting mine.
I would like to see this as well. It should be simple to display MPGe, since we know that a gallon of gasoline/petrol
contains 33.7 kilowatt-hours of energy. The rest is just basic math.
Or liters per km, for the rest of the world 🌍
@@vic321344 the Aptera is an autocycle! If you would like an education on the difference let me know! I see you are confused on several Aptera features so I suggest you should listen more and speak less until you fully understand Aptera and how it is different and more efficient than any other ev offered today!
I didn't see any mention of thermal management. How do you keep this battery from getting too hot or too cold due to climate conditions? Also as the battery is under load and DCFC how do you control temps to keep this battery healthy?
Hi there! Our battery engineers have taken this type of event into account- Aptera is designed with a great battery management system that activates cooling or shuts down power in a situation that could endanger the battery pack. Our battery management system protects our battery pack from overcharging, and our solar charging systems charge at low rates so the batteries stay cool during the process.
Aptera has circulating liquid antifreeze both to the wheel motors and the battery pack. If stationary and under charging load, the AC system kicks in and flows cold air over the inside of the belly pan and through the AC condenser, to exit the hot air out the rear.
@@n.brucenelson5920 Thanks for the info! Do you know how cold climate thermal management is done?
@@Longsnowsm I don't know the details, yet. I do know that the body has dramatically better thermal insulation than most metal body cars.
I will be testing their performance in all weather conditions in Iowa with an early model and report. We have more details when delta is released.
im interested in the thermal of those batteries at various loads
I enjoyed this format of video.
I’m so excited for you guys! I can’t wait to order one!
Hi Saul, I see you met our troll.
Don't worry about him. He is loud but harmless. Like a squeaky dog toy.🐶
For every month you delay ordering may very well cost you a year in delivery time. Just saying.
@@vic321344 Really? Is $100 gonna break you? Take a hike.
How easy will it be to replace the battery overall? Or can the Aptera identify which cell in the battery is bad and can you replace those cells?
Great question! Many cells can fail in our pack design before things need to be replaced, and if replacement is needed, you would only need to replace the pack itself. The replacement costs will vary, but we expect them to be less than any other EV as our packs are smaller for a given range. Please stay tuned for exact answers regarding our battery warranty and repair/replacement cost and plan as we get closer to production time. Thanks for watching!
@@ApteraMotors by "replace the pack itself" do you mean one of the six 416 cell packs that has been identified as faulty? Or do you mean replacing the entire 2,496 cell 6 pack battery assembly?
@@rwo6211 Probably the entire pack assembly. Due to right to repair, a knowledgeable owner or third party could probably do other work at their own risk.
@@n.brucenelson5920 I question that any owner who is not trained to work with high voltage should be doing this work in spite of right to repair. I also believe that Aptera should either prohibit or restrict this kind of effort to only those that can verify training to handle high voltage to limit liability.
I hear you're doing a structural battery pack, will it still be easily servicable/ replaceable when the battery wears out?
Hi! Many cells can fail in our pack design before things need to be replaced, and if replacement is needed, you would only need to replace the pack itself. We expect to offer a 10-year warranty on the high-voltage battery pack. The replacement costs will vary, but they should be far less than any other EV, as our packs are smaller for a given range.
We will have exact answers regarding our battery warranty and repair/replacement cost and plan as we get closer to production time. 😊
thanks for sharing, aptera
Wishlist for Aptera.
1. Side curtain and seat airbags
2. Airbags integrated into the cabin and not seatbelt.
3. A more ergonomic yolk. A yolk is fine but the yolk I've seen from you guys has little area to grab. It needs more area towards its axis of rotation. More physical controls wouldn't hurt either.
4. Two headlights in the front instead of the single unit I've been seeing (I'm not talking about the drl). People coming from cars would find the center headlamp jarring.
5. A larger screen for the driver display. One that can display speed, navigation and side camera feeds all at the same time.
6. The rear view mirror display should move in front of the driver so you don't have to take your eyes away from the road when viewing it. (Take advantage of the benefits of cameras and displays) You can also have a regular rear view mirror too. It wouldn't hurt.
7. Design wise. Minimize the amber on the front wheels. And eliminate the asymmetrical and protruding bezels from the displays.
The single headlight is apparently a regulatory thing. They wanted a lightbar, but motorcycle regs require a single headlight in front.
@@CaptainRotmeat I see a lot of motorcycles with two headlights that are centrally mounted
"20% more energy density compared to other leading EVs on the road today." If all these hypes are proven out in the real world, then the name Aptera is going to be synonymous with efficiency. Ride on Aptera!✌ We are with you.
@@vic321344 If it was easy wouldn't everybody do it? I had no idea a battery could have so many engineers working around it. I like this company more and more and more.... I own shares and pre-ordered to 60 kwh..... maybe a 62.
Cooling is also important and heating of the cells in the winter is even more important... I hope they just sacrifice on metal structure and use the monocoque body instead as the main protection layer to absorb heavy impacts.
@@vic321344 the best metall used to really transport heat is copper with chemical coolant inside everything else is not effective regarding the weight to heat transfer and this kind of metall is never used for structural integrity.
@@vic321344 I think air vents might make sense but cutting the bodypart out will just make no sense for cold environments... If they really want to push efficiency, they need to add closeable vents in the body to adjust or simply add watercooling.
@@vic321344 Of course the cooling system is active, with circulating antifreeze to remove heat. There are plenty of other significant details that they didn't go into but you should understand that they are not overlooking elementary details.
I wonder, will we be able to replace/add battery capacity as an owner? If I buy the 250 mile range and realize it's not enough capacity will I be able to upsize?
At least at first, the packs won't be able to be added to. It is possible that the entire pack could be replaced, but there may be some suspension adjustments required as well due to the increased weight.
will the battery packs be upgradable? if i buy the 600mi version could i upgrade to the 1000mi version after delivery? that would be fantastic. 😎
Currently we are not planning to have the battery upgradable in segments. If you want a bigger pack you would have to replace the whole battery pack. This could be an option in the future!
@@ApteraMotors cool thanks for the info 🙂 excited to see these on the road soon.
@@JasonRosensweig Jason, it would not just be the pack, but likely suspension components as well, due to the weight difference.
How does your battery rate on the new federal EV rebate that has domestic content specifications on which cars will qualify starting in 2023?
Hi Mark! First - we have a team of lobbyists working on including 2 and 3-wheelers like Aptera in the credit. We're confident that when Aptera comes to market, we will have shown Congress that our sEV allows drivers to lessen their carbon footprint more than any other EV on the market.
Hope to see everyone in Carlsbad soon.
I love everything aptera and these little snippets of progression are awesome but I remember when they said last year they were going to deliver production ready ones...just say 2025 and then at least it doesn't feel like dangling a carrot on a stick...
True
I'm a long time fan of Aptera and also invested back in the day. I love what you guys are doing and really appreciate these types of videos and how open everything is. One question I have is, what are you doing to to address the small, but real, possibility of battery thermal events? I work in the industry and know that a number of OEMs are adding a variety of fire and thermal resistant materials like mica sheet to encapsulate or sit on top of the battery pack to address this. Would love to hear what your approach is and if there is any interest would be happy to put you in contact with companies in this field :)
1:02 that ENIG PCB in the foreground seems like it's either a battery testing jig or indicates the true spacing they plan for in their modules. A PCB that big is probably pretty pricey.
What's the cooling strategy? Side cell cooling or bottom plate cooling?
Unless it's changed recently, pretty sure it's going to be liqued cooled plate based on what I remember them saying in previous FAQ sessions.
@@vic321344 Why lie about something that everyone can see is a lie in the video?
@@vic321344 "Aptera Owners Club" visited Aptera about a month ago and did a video on the visit. In the video he talks to the thermal engineers and they show off their battery cooling plate. Still seems very much in testing, but at this time it does appear they are currently committed to the idea of a liqued cooling plate for the battery. It would be interesting to get a follow up from either Aptera or Aptera Owners Club on how there thermal management testing is going.
@@aussieideasman8498 You good man? You might be confusing other peoples comments for mine. I was just responding to vic321344 to share the source of info on why I thought Aptera was currently planning to use a cooling plate vs the no cooling option he mentioned. Never said he was wrong or I was right, just trying to be friendly by sharing the currently available information.
IDK what all this talk about trying to convince me of a bad battery or thermal design is about when I haven't even stated an opinion either way?
I have to admit I feel attacked for no reason my friend 😂
@@aussieideasman8498 Perpetual free energy machines. Basics of how car steering works. Motorbikes having transaxles. Efficiency relative to a bike.
Let's gooo
what happens to the solar charging if the battery is full?
Have you talked about what specific cells you're going to be using?
I looked up and back in November 2020, Chris Anthony messaged me; Right now we have 100KWh packaged under the seat, in the center tunnel, and behind the seats. And it all fits nicely with the rear storage in design position. But we are working on ways to move more weight forward in that package. This may change the production layout
@@vic321344 this prototype is not used for maximizing battery capacity. It just has enough for other component testing. 55-60KWh is a realistic goal to fit under the floor under the seats, 2 modules angled behind the seats but not in the storage area and perhaps some in the center tunnel area. 100KWh will take the longest engineering time.
41KWh will be made in production cars first, all under the floor under the seats, above the aluminum belly pan.
@@vic321344 they probably have licenses to the software for simulating crash testing accurately. They should be using it to see whether they are close or if they have a lot of improvement to do for gamma vehicles
@@vic321344 It is called parallel development. Part of efficient engineering and testing to save budget and time. Best used for related functionality so Agile methodology can be used to integrate the related functionality as both develop.
Will the battery be liquid cooled like tesla
Yes, the battery will be liquid cooled. The liquid is then cooled by our skin cooling system, so we don't need to have any vents that would destroy aerodynamics.
Also, the 2023 Chevy bolt will sell for 26k. Why is the aptera selling for the same price when it has way less parts than the bolt and a smaller battery pack. Shouldn’t u be able to sell the aptera 250 range for around 20 k or does Chevy just have such huge buying power they are able to assemble the bolt for cheaper then the aptera.
Just to make sure. You are selling in Canada as well? How will the battery 🔋 work in extreme cold weather?
Yes, Aptera is taking orders from Canada. The entire vehicle will be validated over a range of -20 to 125 F. Some of the battery components will be tested down to -40. It will have built in pack heating (and cooling), using liquid antifreeze.
Thanks guys for all your hard work! Stay with what you have for your launch vehicles. We need delivery to be prioritized so we can get these cars on the road!
Going forward, though, please consider how those six modules might be engineered to be made removable, and multi-functional. The idea is this:
It would be ideal if the Aptera, at least up to the 60 kWh 600 mile range version had battery modules that were in and out swappable so you could run with the lightest 25 kWh pack for daily low mileage uses, then add battery modules, say by adding up to five 7 kWh battery modules, as longer daily or trip needs make more capacity/range a necessity. This would be the most efficient solution for maxing out your vehicle's day to day efficiency since the dead weight issue of battery OVER capacity could then be managed. We could even share out or rent the extra battery modules within the Aptera community for those needing them only for infrequent vacay/family/friend trips. System wide the most efficient/shared/maximized use of battery storage capacity helps to justify each battery's mining, materials and production costs on our environment.
I understand we owners might want to fine tune our vehicle's suspension to best accommodate these varying battery weight requirements. Perhaps Aptera could help engineer an easy system to accommodate this?
Extra points if these removable battery modules could be engineered to also function as home power wall like power packs to keep frig, etc, running during power outages while we could still use our Apteras for any necessary transportation needs. This is better than a strict vehicle to home system which would immobilize our rides. Climate change enhanced disruptions are making our electric grid, at least in the near future, more unstable.
And my full dream would be that these battery modules could also be monetized as electric grid support storage, both in and out of our Apteras. Thus individuals, nonprofits, and business could invest in them as an eco-friendly side hustle when $ assets were available, using them for steady income thereafter. The quicker we can ramp up available grid electric storage the quicker our economy can transition to renewable electric generation, and the more sustainable and healthier our future looks. And, if we choose to, we could then arrange for our battery assets to experience less down/idle time, helping to further justify their mining/manufacturing costs to our environment.
These swappable multi-use battery modules would also be the easiest format to have when advancing battery tech/chemistries motivate upgrades, or for transitioning them to their second life re-use as stationary storage when our aging batteries lose adequate efficiency and capacity for transportation use. This modular format also seems most efficient and manageable for enabling each battery modules' ultimate recycled afterlife.
Meanwhile our Aptera vehicle could easily live on, and even keep improving, perhaps with other modular upgrades (ching ching $$$), beyond its OG batteries' lifetime! A more easily attained longer life makes our Apteras all the more the most efficient and sustainable transportation solution out there.
Could manufacturing and selling these versatile battery modules be Aptera's ace in the hole to profitability while fully supporting their most efficient and affordable vehicle transportation mission?
The problem with swappable battery modules is liquid cooling. If you want to be able to regulate battery temperature properly, it has to have antifreeze lines going through the pack. And that's gonna be a huge pain point for your swap procedure, full of O-rings and leaks and Teflon tape.
@@ps.2 There are no lines going through the pack. Aptera employs bottom cooling using an aluminum plate at the bottom of the packs with cooling channels and circulating liquid to heat/cool batteries as required
Thank Luke, Ahmed, Daniel, Ryan, Scott, Tom, and Diego! Thanks for the reassuring news.
Not that it really matters, but I'm guessing each of the 6 packs' 416 cells is arranged 104 serial 4 parallel (104s4p)? And the six packs are connected in parallel (to keep the car running even if one or moe packs becomes disconnected)? If so, is the basic configuration 104s24p? If it is 104 serial, with the 3.7 nominal volt 2170's min/max voltage 2.5v-4.2v, is the nominal / minimum / maximum voltage of the pack 384.8v / 260v / 436.8v?
I'm guessing you don't want to divulge (at least at this time) the cells' manufacturer name or the Amp hour capacity per cell?
Some of this information was available to read in the video images. Check out Steve's video in Aptera Owner's club.
Nice information, thank you! But just one question:
How about the battery supply? Is it already secured by contracts? Or is this simply not an issue for small manufacturers?
I really would be glad to hear something about this too.
Hi Markus! We are honored to share the road to solar mobility with you and will continue to keep everyone informed as we make progress. Stay tuned for upcoming announcements regarding supply chain progress soon!
I suspect the propriety/patent pending issue comes into play here.
@@vic321344 You have your specs wrong for the cells Aptera showed in the video. How can you get so much so wrong with such confidence?
And so frequently
@@vic321344 Quote your authoritative source for that statement
Efficiency is nice, compact is great, but it makes me wonder: what about the cooling of the pack? We have seen in the last decade that thermal management is so important.
Better efficiency means needing to remove less heat, so it directly benefits cooling needs. The BMS will monitor temperature to keep the components safe. There could be some throttling of performance in hot weather.
It is too early to predict this, but there will be more information coming.
@@vic321344 Ha you should take your own advice. I have yet to see a post from you that quotes authoritative sources. Mostly your inexperienced opinion
@@bobhilder1469 Spot on. A little aggravating when trying to learn something for the posts. Thanks for taking the time to enlighten me
@@n.brucenelson5920 Do we know anything yet about the efficiency of the on--board charger? Or a timeline for when Aptera's engineers will get the time to engineer in a heat pump HVAC? I am tempted to exchange out the heat pump from my 2013 LEAF into my Accelerator LE. It rapidly gets that car's ambient air toasty. Still I am confident that when Aptera takes on the challenge they will make it all the better, and my Aptera cabin will not require near the LEAF's cubic feet of capacity. It would be nice if Aptera's BMS could direct battery heat passenger's way when they wish it.
Do you have a target date for production startup? Does the battery pack keep with the “Right to Repair” guidelines?
4th quarter this year is the target.
Can Aptera cover the thermal management system next?
They did a little while back. Unless you are talking about updates on progress made since then.
@@matthewmanzi9504 nah, any info is great. Didn't know it was covered previously
@@vic321344 If you are referring to the video on the cooling plate it does pertain to the battery pack in this video. The batteries are bottom cooled just like Tesla is moving to. So these packs rest on top of the cooling plate (My spelling getting better?)
Looking at the FAQ on your site, it mentions being able to replace battery packs. Will this be available as battery technology advances? For example, I see that science is testing new batteries to replace the popular lithium-ion batteries that are in most devices now. If this technology becomes a new standard, would you provide new battery packs using such technology that can be swapped into early models of the Aptera or would this require an all-new design for the vehicle?
Is development for the 60kWh and 100kWh packs ongoing in parallel?
Yes, of course. They are not completely separate tech.
I certainly hope 25kwh gets priority over the 60-100kwh versions. Too much extra engineering to suspension likely would be needed to make those even feasible - since driving dynamics would be totally different as the pack neccesarily extended rearward and added hundreds of pounds to overall weight.
And, to what end? There is no benefit to having a 60kwh pack over a 40kwh pack in this vehicle. If taking a 1000 mile nonstop drive, the 60kwh version would save you less than 30 minutes of dc fast charging. Whoopty-doo.
@@personmcpersonface8796 I tend to agree with you. The announced order has the 60 kWh versions next, then the 25 kWh and the 10 kWh last. As we see with the 40 kWh packs, these are nominal sizes and not the exact final pack size.
@@n.brucenelson5920 Actually Bruce, I believe that the order is 40kWh, 25, 60, then 100. I have the 60kWh on pre-order.
I just learned about Aptera. It seems like the word is starting to get out there. I'll be putting in my order for a 1,000 mile variant soon. Looking forward to more info on weight/performance between the different battery capacities. This converted me from considering a Tesla as my first EV. Their designs are too conventional even the cybertruck in comparison to Aptera.
So will a 100kwh pack still be available? I heard about that in a video last year.
Yes. The fact that they have been able to reduce the pack volume by so much indicates that the 100kWh pack design is much closer.
@@n.brucenelson5920 Even so, I don't understand why anybody needs more than 60kwh.
Ego
@@aussieideasman8498 Why?
@@limwang6241 Aussie likes to create ideas in his head, assume they are true, and bullshit on every single video talking about the Aptera in a failed attempt to grow his own channel.
I’m seriously considering to pre order an aptera!, i’m only wondering How is the battery pack going to be cooled? I had the fist generation Nissan leaf, and the battery lost a lot of capacity becouse the lack of cooling i guess with fast charging.
The battery pack is cooled (or warmed if needed) by circulating antifreeze.
is there any interest in the future in using graphene batteries?
Aptera practices Kaizen, or continuous improvement.
Is the vehicle going to be able to use the DC fast chargers? If so will it be 50~150 or 350 volt capable?
Yes. Aptera will be able to fast charge at 50 kW DC and gain up to 500 miles per hour of range when charging on one. The Aptera nominal pack voltage is 350 with a peak of 402.
excellent!
I would like to know what the battery pack configuration and weight will be (60 Kwh version).
The video shows a 2 x 3 configuration for the 41 KWh pack. Is this 3 wide by 2 from to back. If so that means only one additional row is required for the 60 Kwh pack (9 total required). Otherwise the length of the battery pack becomes problematic at the 100 Kwh size. Will the 100 Kwh pack have a different form factor?
What is each modules weight? 40 - 50 lbs ??
@@vic321344 so that gives us an estimated battery weight of:
400 mile - 528 lb
600 mile - 792 lb
1000 mile - 1,319 lb
Are these battery packs liquid cooled/heated?
Yes. They are using a 50/50 ethylene glycol solution.
Please share your source for the minerals of your batteries. How you aquire the minerals and the staff that mines for it all.
Aptera is sourcing their lithium batteries from Sanyo. This question can be properly directed to them.
How easy is it to remove the battery pack for maintenance?
Would you guys be building a pack for the 4680 tab-less batteries?
I am sure they are paying attention to developments all the time.
1.2 gallons of gas = 400 miles. Pretty awesome!
1. How fast will these packs recharge?
2. Where are the cooling channels for the batteries?
3. Will the packs be upgradable? E.g. start with 2 when ordering, but add 3rd/4th in the future to the vehicle?
With a 50 kW fast charger, they will charge at a rate of 500 miles range per hour added.
There is antifreeze circulating over the battery pack end plates to carry heat to an aluminum bottom skin.
The packs are not modular at present. You would have to replace an entire pack and possibly suspension components to upgrade. This could be a goal for the future.
@@n.brucenelson5920 can you preheat the battery pack before loading?
@@harryvantrotsenburg5481 I know that the pack temperature is regulated. I don't know the details, but if they are cold, they can be warmed - by the antifreeze solution which can be warmed either by the motors, or electrically with power coming from a plug or the batteries themselves.
@@n.brucenelson5920 it is the PRE heating which is important. I am now driving the very simple Dacia Spring, and when below 9 degrees Celsius loading becomes slow. It is very important that we can Pre hear the battery pack. When the Aptera does not give this option I won't buy it....
@@harryvantrotsenburg5481 Ask this question it the January 20th webinar. I live in Iowa where we had a recent below zero stretch and it is important to me, too.
What's the bus voltage? 400 Volts?
Is this battery pack chemistry LFP???
I am glad those aren't coming from you, Steve!
Are you going to try to use quantum scape battery? Any fast charging
Aptera practices continuous improvement, so we will likely see changes as the tech improves and costs come down. Aptera can accept a 50 kW DC input, and charge at the rate of 500 miles per hour.
Which chemistry do you use now? NMC? and from which supplier? I use Samsung 30q and molicell p42 right now, would be nice to know!
Greetings from a German Ambassador!
At one point there was conjecture they're using Samsung INR21700-50E battery cells.
@@peterjorgensen3 If Aptera Owner's Club is right they are using the 50D's and not the 50E's
@@vic321344 Yes thank you
@@JeppeRito Interesting. I copied that part number from one of their old videos. It wouldn't surprise me if they are using the 50D or 50G. Thanks for the correction.
Not a ton of nerdy info. Wish they would talk about the voltage, assuming it's 400v. And maybe talk about the connector, I remember early prototypes using the Tesla connector. But since Tesla seems to be adding ccs to their stations it would make sense to just have CCS like every other car.
Likely 400 V. No need for 800 because of the quick miles per kWh due to the Roadster’s effeminacy.
I’m hoping for a J1772/CCS charge plug. Standards matter.
@@Rich1Rodriguez Effeminacy? Does everything have to be gender-based?
@@bbollig9288 Pretty sure that was an auto-correct fail for ‘efficiency’ 🤣
How long does it take to charge? What is the energy used to charge it compared to a household appliance?
I heard another company takes hours and is same energy as a washer or dryer to charge.
How long depends on what you plug it into, or if charging by solar, how many solar panels you have.
Fastest is DC fast charging at 50 KW. So charging your 40 KWH from 10% to 80% (a typical road trip fast charge) requires 70% of 40 KWH = 28 KWH. At 50 KW that works out to about 34 minutes for 280 miles.
Slow solar charging with full solar package on a clear sunny day is 40 miles per day (4 KWH per day).
At 240 volts AC (an electric dryer outlet for example) it charges at a rate of 6.6 KW = 66 miles per hour.
@@fotoguru222 thanks for the in depth explanation! How much power compared to an appliance is it comparable for dc charging?
@@MTB214 DC fast chargers don't fit in homes. DC fast chargers at 50 KW takes industrial levels of at least 480 volt, 3 phase higher voltage AC power, each, and so a set of them requires their own substation from the utility company.
My whole home is wired for 200 amps of 240 volts AC. (Older homes have only half of that.)
200 amps x 240 volts = 48000 watts = 48 KW, not enough for a single DC fast charger.
@@fotoguru222 Thanks for the information. How do you know so much about electric?
@@MTB214 Well, I read and watch TH-cam videos a lot. 8-)
And I work on DIY projects.
I own an electric car, the 2014 Chevy Volt, and designed a portable solar charger for it. I stopped working on that when I found out about Aptera.
I learned the basics of electricity by reading, and by majoring in Physics and Electrical Engineering.
Are y'all keeping repairability in mind?
Absolutely. It is a key issue for consultant Sandy Munro as well. Aptera offers right to repair, and will not limit who can work on your Aptera or who you get parts from. The repair documents will be open source and the vehicle will have QR codes throughout that will pull up repair videos for that area.
Can we buy the small battery with the car and then add additional batteries later.
This matters from both a financing and tax level. I would rather start with a shorter range than to finance the purchase of a battery. My state charges property tax on cars based on initial car price. I would rather not have to pay property tax on a large battery every year.
You can upgrade your battery pack any time prior to delivery once logged into your Aptera account and upon confirmation of the final configuration of your Aptera. However, currently, we are not planning to have the battery upgradable in segments. If you want a bigger pack you would have to replace the whole battery pack. This could be an option in the future! Our goal is to build this vehicle in a very modular fashion to keep the cost low and hopefully help us scale really quickly.
Based on these numbers I really wonder about the 250 mile. If it has 4 modules it will have an extra 30-40 miles of range and if it has 3 it will only have 210-220. The 1000 mile will need 18-20 modules due to impact of the weight.
250 mile will have less weight .... better efficiency than the 400 mile version
@@lewevans2413 Yes but ... I've read that a typical EV battery weight is about 10 lbs per KWH. In that case the difference in weight between 25 and 40 KWH is about 150 lbs or perhaps 20% less, so about 120 lbs.? -- a small passenger.
@@fotoguru222 Hi Harry, have not calculated that number, but sure. 120lb is a reasonable number.
In a heavy car it would not make a big difference ..... but in a very light vehicle it makes a big difference.
Better. Some good information. "Limited production" later this year? What does that mean? I'll be surprised to see an Aptera a purchaser's hands before the end of '23.
It probably means that I will be getting my Paradigm edition 1st quarter of '23, unless more roadblocks are encountered, which is certainly possible.
@@vic321344 No. Both the suspension and the seating have changed since the one I rode in and this has probably changed since the prototypes. I think we need to wait for the gamma vehicles to know exactly.
How much unnecessary weight did you strip off the battery components? And also how do you determine what's "dead weight"?
I assume that your references to energy density were volumetric due to the nature of the vehicle and since you showed lots of 18650 form factor cells. Could you share why you made that choice? I'm guessing 21700 availability being lower is a consideration.
I think you may be fooled by perspective. Aptera is using 2170 cells in their packs as far as what they have said publicly.
@@n.brucenelson5920 Didn't know that. Visuals looked pretty skinny, but hey, its TH-cam.
I was wondering the same thing until the shot at 3:16, which has to be 2170s.
@@aussieideasman8498 I see you can't read the markings on the cells in the video.
How much range will the 41kwh battery pack get?
400 miles
When Aptera gives range figures, they are referring to the specific conditions of the EPA Highway cycle. How much range you will get will depend on many factors, including how much buffer you wish to leave in your battery. Many of these factors are under your control. Some such as the weather and altitude are less so.
Great looking battery pack designs! I hope the component suppliers are ready! You're on Beta prototypes and still want to do Delta and then Gamma. Even if the Deltas roll out next month, in June, and are done testing in October when the Gamma team rolls out (we hope, right?), how do we get done with government testing and into production before Feb 2023? Not trying to naysay, things are looking good. It just seems like all other companies are still a few months behind.
Would your company be at ETORO? As I would like to invest in your company
John, make your inquiry at invest.aptera.us/ to be sure of a timely answer
@@n.brucenelson5920 thank you 😊 🙏
does anyone know if aptera uses solid state batteries or lithium?
We are using lithium batteries and are designing our BMS tech.
Does anyone know what kind of batteries are being used and what is the expected life of the battery?
All of this information is in the video. Expected life should be at least 400,000 miles and perhaps considerably longer.
Watched the video now 3 times, tells you what they are doing to make the battery, how efficient it is, all the information isn't in this video. Is it llithium batteries? Or a different kind that should last longer. Also didn't say anything about how man miles it might last either. Explaining how they are building them.
@@paul6247 Some of this information was contained in the film itself, including the manufacturer and model. See th-cam.com/video/nXNYlMqQ0Jk/w-d-xo.html
For an analysis of the information revealed in the video.