1:29 let me clarify something here that was unclear in my script: The CB&Q cars from 1950 were built by Budd. Almost immediately after, St. Louis Car company and Pullman began building them as well. I focused on Pullman since they’re probably the most well-known company, and because their history in Chicago is the most fascinating to me. And of course, they went out of business first, with other companies continuing the Gallery car legacy. . . . . . . I will not be entertaining responses to this comment.
When MARC rail got a bunch of ancient gallery cars from Chicago, two groups of people absolutely loved them. Deaf commuters could sit on the upper level facing across and sign easily with groups of their friends. And riders all the way to WV (or Point of Rocks) could use the ceiling shelf that you didn't show to share drinks and food. They could only use them on the Brunswick line due to platform (only low platforms work with these) and height (Baltimore tunnels).
I road those cars on the C&NW and on Amtrak to and from Milwaukee as a kid. The coaches were very much the same as the ones in commuter service, down to the orange leather and reversible seats. I never had a chance to see the interior of the parlor cars. P.S. I still remember the disappointment of getting nothing but a plain old commuter car. It was my first time on Amtrak, and I wanted to ride on something like the new Amfleet cars. Fortunately, on the return trip from Milwaukee to Chicago, we were put on the Empire Builder, so I got to ride in a Superliner 1 car when they were basically brand new. That was a cool experience!
I personally love gallery cars, but a lot of it is probably due to nostalgia, since the first time I ever rode a non-Amtrak passenger train was on the upper floor of one of METRA’s gallery cars. I was staying with my friend Josh in his Joliet dorm room to go to the 2012 Pitchfork festival in Chicago and the night before, we, along with a mutual friend who decided to tag along with me last minute, decided to head downtown for some ill-advised public drinking (I no longer condone this sort of behavior, please follow all local laws and drink responsibly). Once the train finally got to joliet station after what felt like an eternity, Josh guided us upstairs to the longitudinal gallery seats and bought our weekend passes from the conductor. Shortly after, Josh reached in to my backpack to pull out a beer from the case we bought earlier and I looked over in shock not realizing that it was allowed on METRA trains. After arriving in Chicago many hijinks ensued, until we realized we needed to hurry up and catch the last train, little did my friend know that the heritage line that we arrived on and the rock island line we should’ve departed on were served by different termini, so we were essentially stuck at Union Station, late at night and had no choice but to take the most expensive taxi ride of my life. I’ve ridden a few gallery cars since then, but it’s been a while, I’ll have to see if I can find an excuse to ride on one when I’m back in Chicago this winter. EDIT: I guess it was technically just my first ride on a _commuter_ service, as I had also taken short trips on the DC and Athens metros in ‘04&’05 on school/group educational trips, but considering I was only 12-13 and how little I remember of those rides compared to the rest of each trip, I’d say they both deserve at least a small asterisk on my transit timeline (then there’s also the pikes peak cog railway, but that’s more of a tourist attraction than a legitimate form of transit).
When Amtrak was first founded, the gallery cars & even the gallery CNW 400 cars were used by Amtrak. Remember seeing them on the Chicago to Champaign and Carbondale service. Also, people do commute regularly between Valparaiso and Chicago on the NICTD/South Shore. There has been some planning that the "South Shore Line" build a second route to Valparaiso/Chesterton.
Great Video, Thom! I live in Northwest Indiana, and it would be nice for either Amtrak or a South Shore Train extend to Valparaiso. The last Amtrak went to Valparaiso via Gary, was in the mid-eighties.😊
Hello from Peru. The company CALTRAIN from California have donated 93 gallery cars + 20 diesel locomotive to my city , Lima. We are so happy with this donation ♥ . Thanks for your video about gallery cars, it is clear to me , why they were built this way. They look like great and are going to be well maintained and be used in Lima + probably some others cities in our country. We appreciate a lot this nice gesture toward us. Actually 2 of the diesel locomotive have been seen in the ceremony of donation realized in Lima between Antony Blinken and Mayor of Lima Rafael Lopez Aliaga. I am intrigue about gallery cars "transformed" or modified for being used as electric gallery cars by METRO.
More Valparaiso history: The site of present-day Valparaiso was included in the purchase of land from the Potawatomi people by the U.S. Government in October 1832. Chiqua's town or Chipuaw was located a mile east of the current Courthouse along the Sauk Trail. Chiqua's town existed from or before 1830 until after 1832. Located on the ancient Native American trail from Rock Island to Detroit, the town had its first log cabin in 1834. It was then established in 1836 and called Valparaiso in 1837. The city was once called the "City of Churches" due to the large number of churches located there at the end of the 19th century. Valparaiso Male and Female College, one of the earliest higher education institutions admitting both men and women in the country, was founded in Valparaiso in 1859, but closed its doors in 1871 before reopening in 1873 as the Northern Indiana Normal School and Business Institute. In the early 20th century, it became Valparaiso College, then Valparaiso University. In 1858, the Pittsburgh, Fort Wayne and Chicago Railroad reached Valparaiso, connecting the city directly to Chicago, and then it had an interurban to Gary starting in 1910. While the city is no longer important train wise, it's still at the crossroads due to its proximity to I-65, I-80, I-90, and I-94.
Like VRE, MARC had once use Chicago Metra's old Pullman Gallery cars. VRE had some before they bought new gallery cars. They sold the other cars back to Chicago Metra
It took a couple of days for the gallery car to sink in, but I recall being on one, only once, as a kid. I found the upstairs gallery fascinating, it was a big deal to a 4 year old.
Thanks for an excellent discussion on Amtrak gallery cars! When I was in Alaska, I rode the Alaska Railroad between Anchorage and Fairbanks. One of the cars on the train was one of the old Chicago and Northwestern intercity gallery cars. So I can tell you where one of them ended up. Not sure about the others. Gallery cars as parlor cars and lounge cars were never a great success. The lower deck on the parlor cars had one abreast parlor seating on each side of the aisle, but the upper deck had room only for the single coach seats. So if you sat up there, you got to sit in a coach seat and pay parlor car fare. Not such a good deal! The lounge car on the Bi-level Peninsula 400 was an even more bastard arrangement. I think they even put a bridge from one side of the upper deck to the other for waiters carrying food and drinks to passengers up there. The dining car on the Peninsula was, in fact, an old single-level streamlined diner with a false roof added so from the outside it looked like a gallery car. I think they even put dummy windows on the outside of the roof so it looked like an upper deck. But the lights were never on upstairs. Which probably best describes that arrangement! 😅 The other bi-level intercity train, the Bi-level Flambeau 400 (love those kitschy midwestern train names!) never got gallery parlor or lounge cars. It just carried single-deck parlors, lounges, and diner interspersed with intercity gallery coaches. The reason for the bi-level 400s was a deal that the railroad made with the state of Wisconsin. In exchange for the new equipment on those trains, they got to eliminate several money-losing passenger trains in Wisconsin. Between Chicago and Green Bay, the railroad ran some of their trains in push-pull fashion, using commuter cab cars at the Chicago end of the trains. The Rock Island and Milwaukee also had their entries in the kitschy train names category. The Rock Island had the Corn Belt Rocket which I rode a few times. Its equipment was mostly hand-me-down Southern Pacific equipment (in pretty worn-out shape). The Milwaukee Road had the Morning Hiawatha (which sounds like a line from a bad romantic comedy movie!). There was an Afternoon Hiawatha too. They ran back and forth between Chicago and Minneapolis and carried full-length dome cars. By the way, I love your footage of an HO model Chicago and Northwestern bi-level passenger train!
Sitting on the upper level is a private seat with a great view and plenty of room for your bags, on the luggage rack. True Trivia - Earlier designs had a a view block along the upper deck. This was called the “modesty panel”, and existed to block first floor walking patrons from seeing up the skirts of the second floor passengers.
Whoa... The only time I've ever seen and riden on of those things is on NJ Transit from Cranford to NYC Penn Station. I had no idea they had their own name, but you're right, the conductor asked to pucnh my ticket (yes, NJ Transit still litterally punches paper tickets) reaching up from the lower hallway to my upper seat. Thanks for this history!
1st time that I rode those cars was when I was stationed at Chanute AFB in Rantoul Illinois These trainba were regularly scheduled service by Amtrak btw Chicago and Champaign-Urbana in the mid 1980s
@@Thom-TRA You might find this funny. The track was about a 1/4 mile or so from our house. And it crossed a county road that I walked on to get to and from grade school. So I did see and hear the trains often. Might be what got me started in loving trains even to this day. Anyway, my paternal grandmother lived and worked in Waukegan, and would take the train up to FDL to come see us. I could never understand why they wouldn't just stop, and let her out on the crossing near our house, instead of making us drive to the FDL station to get her.
Valparaiso, Indiana is named after the way more famous Valparaíso, Chile! In Old Spanish/Castilian, Valparaíso means vale of paradise! Why is it called that? Well the county it's in, Porter County, was named after David Porter who was a naval officer and commanded a number of US ships in the First Barbary War, the War of 1812 and against piracy in the Caribbean. Porter battled in the Battle of Valparaíso (a battle that was a British victory) during the War of 1812, and so it ended up being named after it! Before Valparaiso, it was called Portersville! Love them or hate them, Gallery cars are a part of American rail history. While of course Gallery cars like these shouldn't be made today, it made effective sense for the operators back then. And then there are the C3s. The C3s aren't Gallery cars, but they're special in that they're bi-levels exclusively used by LIRR diesel trains! The C3s are bi-levels because the platforms on the diesel branches are shorter and so with bi-levels, they still get the capacity they want. They're based off the C1. C1s were built by Tokyu Car Corporation. They were designed by Comeng (an Australian company) who worked with Mitsui, and it was one of their last projects before they ceased to exist in 1990. The reason Comeng didn't follow through with building was because of the instability of their owner Australian National Industries. So they sold the design to Mitsui, and then Mitsui sold it to Tokyu. These C1s were supposed to be part of an experiment to see if they could do a one-seat ride on the partially electrified Port Jeff Branch (not electrified between Huntington and Port Jeff) using dual-modes into Penn. If the experiment was successful (which it was), they'd get a larger order. Which ended up becoming the C3 based on an updated design thanks to feedback. The C3s, however, were built by Kawasaki.
European here: I had to actually watch this video twice just to wrap my head around the concept. Never heard of them before and wish it actually stayed that way 🤣
Not pick: Gallery cars were not in use throughout Canada... CP Rail (now CPKC) purchased 9 gallery cars from Canadian Vickers 2 of which were cab cars. Each had diesel generator for air conditioning and heating. (no HEP locomotives at CP). They were used solely betwen Montréal and Rigaud line. (now the Hudson line). For the 17:15 express, all 9 cars were together and often pulled by 4070, the engine featured in the movie Silver Streak. During the day, they would break the train into 2. In my days, it was the front 3 cars that made the back/forth during off peak hours and returned in time to be joined with the other 6 cars for the 17:15 express. After the service was taken over by government, the gallery cars use varried as there were no longer any express trains. When they restarted commuter service to St-Jérome (initially Blainville as tracks to St-Jérome had been removed) they shifted the gallery cars from out line to the Blainville line. They were retired sometime in the 2000s as AMT/EXO purchased more cars (the same as the heavy steel NJ Transit multi0evel cars). Looking at your video: another difference is the doors were wider to accomodate 3 people going up/down at same time, whereas the trains in the Chicago areas appears to only be wide enough for 2 people going up/down at same time. On a convetional train, east vestibule could let 1 person on/foof at a time, so total 2, whereas with the CP version of gallery cars, it was 3 which was better than conventional cars. At the time, CP had 1950s cars with stea heat and small sondows that could open in summer (but double windows added for winter, so no ventilation in winter), as well as some Budd RDCs that were built into up to 9 car trains. (those wsere air conditioned). But the gallery ones were the more "luxurious" one due to better AC/heating and better suspension and less oisy than then Budds. As used by EXO, the multilevels have narrow steep stairs at each end (so 2 in/out total). As used by NJ Transit with level boarding, those have total of 4 single person doors per side and with level boarding makes for far more efficient in/out cycle.
I don't love or hate those cars, especially since I never rode any other type of cars in the US. The main issue I personally have with these is while sitting on the second floor in summer (as a commuter it may be hard to find an available seat downstairs after getting off work) I get the freezing air from the AC blows directly at my head.
I have never seen that style of carriage in any country but the USA although maybe Canada might have them?Most double decker train carriages have a complete floor between the two levels.... even double decker buses do!Not to forget double decker aircraft like the 747 and A380!
MARC had gallery cars on the Brunswick Line from 2004 to 2015 and my first in service main line train ride was in one, and ofc now VRE has them so they're just the norm for me. I like them especially for the personal seats on top.
When I came into the world, the C&NW was still running steam pulled trains into Wheaton, although they were replaced the following year by diesels. The gallery cars followed soon thereafter. I grew up with them, so to speak. The GO trains in southern Ontario have double deckers, but they're not gallery cars. The seats on the first level are dreadfully uncomfortable, so a lot of people go upstairs. I've often wondered whether all that weight on the upper level might throw the train off balance. But I'm not a physicist, so I'm probably out to lunch on that one.
Wow, steam trains on the C&NW! That’s so cool. I think two floors is fine with the right structural integrity, though I can come up with a whole host of reasons why there’s probably no triple deckers lol
I grew up on these cars. I live in SF and back in the day, Burlingame. I used to take Caltrain to back and fourth from the city with my dad. Mostly to SF Giants games. Unfortunately, the gallery cars on Caltrain are not to last that much longer as they are about to be replaced with the new STADLER electric equipment. Anyone who would like to catch a Caltrain gallery consist should do it as soon as possible before its too late!
After the ex C&NW bilevels were retired by Amtrak, they ended up in Green Bay getting repainted back to green-yellow for Great Lakes Western, an excursion outfit. They were refurbished at the old Milwaukee Road shop here. They were back home in Green Bay, as they had served on the 400's up here from 1958-1971. Don't know what happened to them after 1995 but I worked on them as car attendant and they rode like a Cadillac on rough track. One car had a bar and no upstairs on one end. Seats were very comfortable. Chicago railroads that had gallery cars were Burlington, Milwaukee Road, Rock Island, C&NW, Illinois Central. Southern Pacific had them too out in California. Nice video. Gonna do one on Amtrak's French turboliners that rode like glass? They were awesome and so smooth.
Having since rode them twice, I can (at least partially) answer that! Several of the bar cars ended up with the Alaska Railroad in much the same role! Just like you said with the suspension - definitely my favorite cars in the fleet. Love to see them continue on like that :)
1. Long live railway zealadvocates!! 2. Those four boxy spiral staircases are a challenge for passengers with any more than one piece of hand luggage. 3. The open concept seems better ventilated, this being post-covid and all. 4. Let's keep just one gallery car per rail line for old times' sake then get on with proper bi-level cars.
Never ever travelled on one but if they keep operational costs down then surely help public transport agencies keep operating costs and fares down. Not keen on the stair arrangement though! When I hear Valpariso I think Chile 🇨🇱
@@Thom-TRA I remembered another one that also very rare and is more directly a predecessor of the gallery car. It's called the PRR MP70, or the Long Island railroad double decker. It has an aisle at the normal height and every other set of seats is either raised or lowered relative to the aisle. Like the gallery, the conductor walks down the aisle in can reach the upper and lower seats. But every seat requires climbing up or down to get to from the aisle.
For now I love bombardier commuter cars are the best because has more viewing to other side windows doesn't have blocking briefcase racks plus, no more smelling old farting people from lower section seats while seated upper level on gallery cars. Bombardier cars are twice smoother ride and quiet and wider walkable alley between side seats and wider stairs too. So try it on Caltrain between gallery and Bombardier cars!
How many commuter lines run gallery cars vs other types of bilevel cars? The Valparaiso trains lost ridership during the 1980s when the South Shore line got new MU cars. It went fr 2 to just one train each way until ended entirely in 1991. A photo of the last trip showed it with a former Metroliner cab car and 2 Horizon coaches.
I like the gallery cars; rode them for 10+ years to & from Chicago. You could catch a nap upstairs without hassle from fellow passengers in a two seater.
Through the mid-70s I recall 1 or 2 afternoon BN that had a heavyweight combine between the locomotive and the Gallery cars. It was correctly wired for the lights heating AC to pass thru to the newer cars but that 1930 look didn't fit but it carried the p.m. copies of newspapers to the suburbs and didn't get hung up in highway traffic. Wisconsin and Southern wound up with some that they used on small excursions or employee specials. They wanted to start commuter service in the Madison WI area but startup and signaling cost were too much. I believe they still retain a few of their cars and within the last year or so the cars that were used by Iowa Interstate to.shuttle football fans in Iowa City some have moved on to the Dakota and Iowa. In fact Northern Rail Car Company rebuilt some of the cars for VRE and they were located on the WSOR in Milwaukee.
@@Tommy-qx6gj there was a video of some derelict Metra cars in the Arizona desert several years ago but I'm not certain loans them or if they're even still intact. Some of those Iowa Pacific cars were stored on a Industrial Park Railroad near Bensenville but appeared to be so rough a torch may have been the only way out
And yes, the CB&Q. Aka Burlington ran their 1950 built Budd gallery cars with steam locomotives and diesels from the Zephyr pool when they first got them. Weird eh? The CN&W gallery cars only ran with HEP. So they could only be pulled by engines converted to HEP like F7 and E8. None of their E7 models pulled them.
If I remember, when the CNW were planning there new intercity cars in the late 50s, they were looking to modernise and move away from steam heating as it’s was expensive to maintain the steam generator. So they used an diesel generator that was would work off the the main engines to power the whole train via electricity vs using steam heating to heat the the train in the winter and having individual rechargeable batteries that powered each individual car for the ac and power. At least half or 3/4 of the CNW intercity fleet by the early 60s were HEP equipped and the E8/9 and F7 HEP powered equipped. While the rest of the fleet were still steam heated with the remaining E7 still had their steam generator in place until there retirement in 1971. This also paved the way for their commuter fleet to be equipped with HEP out of the factory while the older bi level cars that came before the ones that were HEP equipped to be converted to HEP from steam heated to work with the rest of the fleet.
In the Bay Area where I live we also have gallery cars on Caltrain and my message to all you railfans is you better ride them before they’re gone. Will be sad to see this unique design go away but electrification is a step in the right direction for Caltrain
With the labor shortages, gallery cars are also grand when it comes to trying to hunt for more employees. If you have children and many railfans who want to see what the scenery would look like from an engineer's point of view, the upper row gives you that option. Also when you ride past a freight train and see a freight locomotive, just like on a Superliner, you are sitting right up at the same level as the engineer. They can also be attached to a train of single-level coaches.
Gallery cars have one huge problem compared to other bi-level designs: Accessibility. In theory, it should be possible to make them accessible to people using wheelchairs and/or having issues with stairs, but I am unaware of any such modifications. On both the Bombardier "lozenge" cars, and Superliner-style bi-levels, wheelchairs are easy to accommodate, by comparison.
@@Thom-TRAif they were modified to have the ability to enter from a high platform, I could see them being made better for accessibility than bi-level cars. If you're in the part of a bi-level car that's level with the platform, and you can't do stairs for whatever reason, you are stuck there. But with gallery cars, you can traverse the whole length of a train without using stairs. Both of them have parts that are not accessible, but in a gallery car that's a minority of the seats.
@@SynchroScore Except that a wheelchair lift is more expensive than a portable ramp, and more prone to breaking. Floor height is the real issue with traditional gallery cars. Later bi-level designs feature a lower floor than what was conventional when the gallery cars were designed. I ride trains in southern California often and see both lozenge and Superliner type cars regularly in operation.
There is literally nothing to like about them relative to a modern bilevel. 1. The aisles on the upper levels are extremely narrow, particularly if you have luggage. 2. They're extremely slow for boarding and alighting.
A Chicagoan, I grew up on IC/Metra Electric District; Highliners & Gallery Cars were so normal that my first ride on an Amtrak Superliner in the mid 80s was weird and my first use of NJ Transit bi-levels in the 2000s was novel. Personal-adjacent facts: The Highliners were first phased in when I was a newborn. We lived in a highrise just a mile from the horrible wreck of 1972. Mom says I was in the highchair for breakfast as all sad hell broke loose nearby.
@@Thom-TRA We also have both of Metra's F7s, one of which is painted back as C&NW 411, so we can do a proper Northwestern commuter service from the mid-70s. Now we just have to get some Budd bilevels to pull around with the Burlington E9s.
I used to ride the Southern Pacific gallery cars that were painted in the dark lark gray color! I used to commute from San Francisco to San Jose daily, and I found them to be quite comfortable!
In the mid 70's I would ride Amtrak to college in Carbondale IL. In that era, using old hand me down Illinois Central equipment Amtrak struggled to keep operable rolling stock in service on the Shawnee. Heat and cooling often did not work. On at least two occasions they used C&NW gallery cars on that route, which still bore the C&NW livery.
As you mentioned VRE is one of the operators of Gallery Cars. The interesting story behind VRE is that when they started they lease Bombardier cars from the Seattle Sounder transit authority. It seems Sounder had more cars than it needed as their northern line wasn't in service yet and VRE needed more cars. The leased cars ran along side VRE's original Mafersa single level cars that were built in Brazil. These cars are still in use in Connecticut by CT Rail. The Sounder cars featured level boarding (ADA compliant), wider stairs and full width floors on both levels. What's interesting here is that VRE was setup from the start as a Proof Of Payment (POP) service where conductors don't have to check/lift everyone's ticket. Therefore there's no need for the opening in the middle of the car. Fare inspectors routinely do ticket checks now and then with fines if you don't have a ticket. So, how did VRE end up with Gallery cars? Well, as service expanded in the Seattle area Sounder wanted it's cars back. To fill the gap VRE obtained 50 Gallery cars from Metra starting in 2001. When Metra ordered new Gallery cars from Nippon Sharyo an "add-on" order was placed by VRE. I'm of the camp that believes Gallery cars have served their purpose but are an outdated design and need to go. VRE should have ordered Bombardier cars but with limited funding where every dollar counts instead went with the Metra "add-on" route. So if VRE cars look and feel like the same cars you rode in Chicago now you know why. BTW - if you search TH-cam for "VRE - Virginia Railway Express with Sounder Equipment - 2005" you'll find a short video of a VRE train with Sounder cars. Some have been re-lettered for VRE while others still have Sounder on their sides.
@@maas1208 Interesting, I didn't know that. Sounds like VRE is taking the add-on route again with Metra. Being as FedGov (biggest employer in the DC area) is ordering most employees back to the office I'm sure VRE will need the extra equipment. With low level platforms (ADA) and POP ticketing these are just the type of cars VRE needs. Speaking of add-on options CT Rail in Connecticut just ordered 60 single level cars with options for 300 more. I figure it will be Metro North or MBTA getting in on this action.
@@erichhouchens3711 So Technically VRE riders can relive that Bombardier BiLevel car luxury with the New Alstom Coradia Multilevel cars, Also I heard that the Coradia Multilevels are going to start production in 2024.
@@erichhouchens3711 Also I'm Pretty sure that the Coradias that are being ordered by Metra are meant to Replace the Gallery Cars that were built by the Pullman Company and the Budd Company (which the oldest date back to the 1950s/1960s and newest date back to the 1970s/1980s), The Morrison-Knudsen/Amerail Gallery Cars (Built in the 1990s) and the Nippon Sharyo Gallery Cars (built in the 2000s) are staying tho. While the VRE Coradias are meant to supplement the Nippon Sharyo Gallery Cars which built in the 2000s & 2010s.
I knew a bit about these Amtrak gallery cars, but I didn't know they operated until as late as 1994! Also, to answer your question about if there is unusual equipment where I'm from, I'll answer by saying that I am from San Diego, California (home to the _Pacific_ _Surfliner_ and other equipment), where most of the railroad equipment is quite generic. However, there is some equipment here that may qualify: 1. In North County, San Diego, there is a diesel-powered light rail service called _Sprinter,_ which uses the only Siemens Desiro cars in North America (Desiro cars are normally found in Europe and some parts of Asia). 2. In Campo, California, the Pacific Southwest Railway Museum has a variety of equipment from the Southwest's history. However, there is also one singular ex-Metra gallery cab car, now known as CZRY 8758* (CZRY indicates that it was once owned by the Carrizo Gorge Railway, a former freight operator on the San Diego-Tijuana border). 3. On the opposite side of the border, there is a tourist train from Tijuana to Tecate, Mexico. That train uses some more gallery cars, hauled by EMD locomotives that are also used for local freight rail operations. If you want to find "Geeps" hauling gallery cars (on what I believe may be the southernmost gallery car operation), you can go to Tijuana.** Anyways, thanks for the video! *for the gallery car in Campo: www.rrpicturearchives.net/rsPicture.aspx?id=1231709 **for the tourist train in Tijuana: www.sandiegored.com/en/news/250118/TijuanaTecate-tourist-train-has-been-reactivated-Dont-miss-this-unique-experience-in-Baja-California
I like the older gallery cars with the "flip" seats. The newer cars with stationary seats, half of the passengers must ride "backwards". Per my observation most people prefer the forward facing seats.
I know Caltrain had them for a while and are phasing them out as they electrify. I personally like them because I liked sitting alone in the upper deck of the train.
On gallery cars I like to go far to the back of the upper level (second from the rear if I can get it) -- not only do you get a seat to yourself, but you don't get anyone walking past you. It's perfect for taking a nap!
Amtrak also used these cars between Milwaukee and Chicago on The Hiawatha. If I remember correctly, they were push-pull with former GO Transit (Toronto) engines.
I am quite litteraty in valpo right now visiting family. We take the south shore to Dune Park, then the V line bus connection. What a coincidence, I never knew that Amtrak ran a train here. And those phase 3 gallery cars are pretty strange. Thanks for the video!
I think this isn't the only Amtrak car based on a commuter design. There's also the Horizon Cars (Based on the Comet Commuter Car Design) and even Amtrak Retrofitted and Luxurified some ex-NJT Comet 1-Bs built in the 1970s for use on the Amtrak California Trains in the northern part of the state.
Gallery cars made their only West Coast appearance in the Southern Pacific Peninsula Commute service between San Jose and San Francisco, starting in 1955. All gone by 1985.
@@Thom-TRA True. I should have been more specific that the original Pullman-Standard, and American Car & Foundry gallery cars were all retired by 1985.
I'm a big CNW fan I've always been so curious about the interiors of those Gallery cars they used for the "400's". (especially I always wish the Flambeau/Green bay 400 was still running! ;-; ). I heard the dinner car that CNW had had a false roof the match the others gallery cars on the outside. It's so interesting to me because it's different from the current Amtrak Super liners today, were today the passage way from car to car is on the second level.
I get the idea behind these cars and it does make sense. But especially on longer routes I don’t really see the advantage vs regular double decker wagons. Walking through the train takes time, sure. But checking the tickets is the part which takes the majority of the conductors time and that’s surely not sped up by people needing to reach down from the upper deck. Especially during a time where tickets weren’t QR codes and they actually had to read and void a paper ticket (or even sell them, not sure how that was handled). So, you save like 30s of the conductor climbing the stairs and walking through the train car a third time once he’s done with both decks, but lose about 1/4 of the seats, meaning the train is longer overall. So, I got interested if the Americans were just ahead of the time and therefore went for this strange design. So I looked up when Germany introduced them, apparently in the 1860s, so I guess that excuse is out of the window. But what really caught my eye was a picture taken in 1957 of an eastern German steam locomotive, pulling cars that look like they could still be in service today. Apparently the design of these German double decker cars really has not changed that much in the last 70 years and putting them behind a steam locomotive makes them look impressively futuristic.
“Just because there are much better options doesn’t mean they can’t be fun to ride.” That’s a perfect description of why you make “Trains Are Awesome” and why you have so many happy followers.
That Is A Single Decker Gallery Train, A Deck With Balcony Seat Rows There Are Trains In The Liberty Land, That Are Tourist Trains Platform Level Vestibules A Ground Level Deck & A Scenery Deck Level Singular Ground Level Trains With A Scenic Deck Amtrak Has Train Carriages That Are For Tours They Are Low Entry Trains There Is An Entry-Level And The Main-Level If A Train Has Three Decks, Then It Is Called A Tri-Level Carriages
The south shore has highliner emus, which are a separate class of Railcar. They do have an identical interior, which is why I mentioned them specifically at the 3:30 mark. Have you made it to that part yet?
I grew up off the BNSF line and metra gallery cars were just the standard train cars for me until I got older and realized how weird they actually are lol. Bit biased but I love them
About 1:00 you said you never met someone in different gallery cars… I am probably in that rare breed but then again, I’ve only ridden them once, and that was on the VRE back in 2013
Caltrain could probably give Amtrak some of their gallery cars, as they no longer use those cars and instead use bombardier bi-level cars and Stadler KISS EMU train cars.
Actually the Tokyo monorail from Haneda to Hamamatsucho station is the best public transport from the airport into the city. They also do a great job running local and airport express trains throughout the day. It is on par with Vienna's CAT. Washington D.C. silver line is an abomination although it is better than nothing. So, I'm not so anti-monorail as you. I also found the Wuppertalbahn very useful.
I’m not anti-monorail either. I lived in Tokyo for 10 years and used the Tokyo monorail often. I’m getting so tired of people mishearing me and putting words in my mouth. Stop doing it.
I’m pretty indifferent to gallery cars since I’ve never ridden one, but the fact they can’t be used with high platforms and only have one entry point per side doesn’t seem very efficient to me, and then there’s the accessibility problem. But I can see where they would have nostalgic charm in regions where they’ve been used, same as I’m pre-emptively mourning the Arrows since NJT announced their eventual replacement.
@@SynchroScore fair enough. I guess I wasn’t considering the electric variant because unlike the push/pull cars they haven’t turned up on systems besides Metra, but still they do prove you can make level boarding work with the basic gallery car layout.
I don't really see a problem with gallery cars especially for commuter trains. I can see how it might get uncomfortable for long distance routes but you just need to put in comfier seats and it's all good
Good Day Curly_fries! I've just seen Thom-TRA video about Amtrak Galley Cars, dated from 7 months ago, plus your reply "I don't really see a problem with gallery cars....". While I cannot provide a live link, I believe a final government report may be available about the crash of Illinois Central gallery coaches on what is now named Metra Electric in Chicago in 1972: One train of older, single-level coaches "telescoped" into another train of gallery coaches which was stopped. Some passengers were killed outright while others were severely injured, trapped in the galleries; each set of double-doors, one per side per coach, offered little for an escape since several were jammed. As well, this event took place before coach windows were fitted for emergencies. I believe it can be safe to say that in total, the gallery design of such rail equipment was a death trap for those passengers involved. And further, it is an onus on the Metra leadership that such a design was specified for new passenger coach orders from the 1970's until the 2020's, my opinion.
@@michaelsmith9590 I didn't even think about the older ones not having emergency windows, the ones on the gallery car I was on recently could flip outward, thanks for the info!
I grew up with the Gallery Cars on the North Shore and would ride them all the time into Chicago. I am used to them and honestly enjoy them. Living in DC now, the MARC bi-levels just don’t hit the same way. I almost cried the first time I rode the VRE when I heard them play the exact same “Caution! The doors are about to close” jingle as Metra. You mentioned that VRE has some newer Gallery Cars, but I also thought they got much of their rolling stock from Metra, as I’ve seen VRE cars in the yard by Western Avenue in Chicago. Plus that door jingle. Did VRE order some of their own stock, as well as take from Metra?
Wow ! What a fabulous video ! I love Gallery cars and have ridden on so many I could write a book. Amtrak used some ex Chicago and North Western Gallery cars on the Milwaukee route in the late 1980s. The cars were marshalled either side of a Amfleet 1 coach car, and top and tailed by former Go Transit GP40TCs ! I rode on them several times, and the cars that I rode on were ex NorthWestern Inter City cars which had been used on their 400 series services between Chicago and Minneapolis, and Green Bay. Truly wonderful memories. Today I really enjoy the VRE gallery cars, which are so well kept, and a pleasure to ride on ! Many thanks indeed.
@@Thom-TRA I trust you are enjoying your life in DC, and sometimes taking a ride on VRE ! Whilst the gallery car concept is now outdated, one must give credit to the Burlington and C&NW for being so far sighted when they first introduced those cars. There is a wonderful book by Mike Schafer called “All Aboard Amtrak” published by Railpace Company in 1991. Do try and get a copy !
As someone who has lived on the San Francisco peninsula for about three decades, I have been a Caltrain rider off and on that entire time. I didn’t realize how unusual our gallery cars are!
When I first moved to Chicago in the 1980's I had to try riding the Amtrak commuter train to Valparaiso from Chicago and my memory is I did it twice. I do remember both upstairs and downstairs, seats had cushions and reclined. In the 1980's Greyhound and Trailways had some intercity buses which stopped at Valparaiso enroute to Chicago.
The model train version of the Amtrak Gallery car is hard to find. They are a rarity. Also I went to see the new Caltrain EMUs today and met of with some railfans like us. Some of them have heard of your TH-cam Channel and some don't. For those who don't I introduced your channel to them. Those who do know your TH-cam channel had the same wish as me, to meet you in person.
1:29 let me clarify something here that was unclear in my script:
The CB&Q cars from 1950 were built by Budd. Almost immediately after, St. Louis Car company and Pullman began building them as well.
I focused on Pullman since they’re probably the most well-known company, and because their history in Chicago is the most fascinating to me. And of course, they went out of business first, with other companies continuing the Gallery car legacy.
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I will not be entertaining responses to this comment.
Miss u Tom it’s josh from metra and Efron says hi to he hopes you visit again
I don’t understand why people hate on gallery cars, I’ve ridden in them and they’re quite comfortable. I don’t see any problems with them.
Same
When MARC rail got a bunch of ancient gallery cars from Chicago, two groups of people absolutely loved them. Deaf commuters could sit on the upper level facing across and sign easily with groups of their friends. And riders all the way to WV (or Point of Rocks) could use the ceiling shelf that you didn't show to share drinks and food. They could only use them on the Brunswick line due to platform (only low platforms work with these) and height (Baltimore tunnels).
I road those cars on the C&NW and on Amtrak to and from Milwaukee as a kid. The coaches were very much the same as the ones in commuter service, down to the orange leather and reversible seats. I never had a chance to see the interior of the parlor cars.
P.S. I still remember the disappointment of getting nothing but a plain old commuter car. It was my first time on Amtrak, and I wanted to ride on something like the new Amfleet cars. Fortunately, on the return trip from Milwaukee to Chicago, we were put on the Empire Builder, so I got to ride in a Superliner 1 car when they were basically brand new. That was a cool experience!
That’s so interesting that the interior was identical
I personally love gallery cars, but a lot of it is probably due to nostalgia, since the first time I ever rode a non-Amtrak passenger train was on the upper floor of one of METRA’s gallery cars. I was staying with my friend Josh in his Joliet dorm room to go to the 2012 Pitchfork festival in Chicago and the night before, we, along with a mutual friend who decided to tag along with me last minute, decided to head downtown for some ill-advised public drinking (I no longer condone this sort of behavior, please follow all local laws and drink responsibly). Once the train finally got to joliet station after what felt like an eternity, Josh guided us upstairs to the longitudinal gallery seats and bought our weekend passes from the conductor. Shortly after, Josh reached in to my backpack to pull out a beer from the case we bought earlier and I looked over in shock not realizing that it was allowed on METRA trains. After arriving in Chicago many hijinks ensued, until we realized we needed to hurry up and catch the last train, little did my friend know that the heritage line that we arrived on and the rock island line we should’ve departed on were served by different termini, so we were essentially stuck at Union Station, late at night and had no choice but to take the most expensive taxi ride of my life. I’ve ridden a few gallery cars since then, but it’s been a while, I’ll have to see if I can find an excuse to ride on one when I’m back in Chicago this winter.
EDIT: I guess it was technically just my first ride on a _commuter_ service, as I had also taken short trips on the DC and Athens metros in ‘04&’05 on school/group educational trips, but considering I was only 12-13 and how little I remember of those rides compared to the rest of each trip, I’d say they both deserve at least a small asterisk on my transit timeline (then there’s also the pikes peak cog railway, but that’s more of a tourist attraction than a legitimate form of transit).
When Amtrak was first founded, the gallery cars & even the gallery CNW 400 cars were used by Amtrak. Remember seeing them on the Chicago to Champaign and Carbondale service. Also, people do commute regularly between Valparaiso and Chicago on the NICTD/South Shore. There has been some planning that the "South Shore Line" build a second route to Valparaiso/Chesterton.
Doesn't surprise me. When I first thought of Amtrak operating in rural areas but sort of near big cities I thought of these
Great Video, Thom! I live in Northwest Indiana, and it would be nice for either Amtrak or a South Shore Train extend to Valparaiso. The last Amtrak went to Valparaiso via Gary, was in the mid-eighties.😊
This doesn't bother me. If I were going solo, I'd definitely go upstairs so that I could have a seat to myself.
Yes they did. So did CB&Q and Burlington Northern.
(P.S. there is a cursed picture online of a CB&Q E5 pulling some Gallery cars.)
The Nashville WeGo uses the retired VRE cars and former F40PHs. You gotta ride if you find yourself within driving distance, it’s a very unique line
Hello from Peru. The company CALTRAIN from California have donated 93 gallery cars + 20 diesel locomotive to my city , Lima. We are so happy with this donation ♥ . Thanks for your video about gallery cars, it is clear to me , why they were built this way. They look like great and are going to be well maintained and be used in Lima + probably some others cities in our country. We appreciate a lot this nice gesture toward us. Actually 2 of the diesel locomotive have been seen in the ceremony of donation realized in Lima between Antony Blinken and Mayor of Lima Rafael Lopez Aliaga. I am intrigue about gallery cars "transformed" or modified for being used as electric gallery cars by METRO.
I just heard today! Congratulations! I will have to come to Lima to ride them
@@Thom-TRA You are kindly invited to visit Lima and in general Peru any time you want to ♥
Yes they were on the Illini when it operated Chicago to Decatur IL
Fantastic train race scene at the end. That’s was a great addition!
I was so lucky to see that.
Also check out the model layout in the video. I know you like model trains!
I forgot to mention that the Acela cars were #1-6 was recently added and car #2 is the quiet car. Sorry.
More Valparaiso history: The site of present-day Valparaiso was included in the purchase of land from the Potawatomi people by the U.S. Government in October 1832. Chiqua's town or Chipuaw was located a mile east of the current Courthouse along the Sauk Trail. Chiqua's town existed from or before 1830 until after 1832. Located on the ancient Native American trail from Rock Island to Detroit, the town had its first log cabin in 1834. It was then established in 1836 and called Valparaiso in 1837. The city was once called the "City of Churches" due to the large number of churches located there at the end of the 19th century.
Valparaiso Male and Female College, one of the earliest higher education institutions admitting both men and women in the country, was founded in Valparaiso in 1859, but closed its doors in 1871 before reopening in 1873 as the Northern Indiana Normal School and Business Institute. In the early 20th century, it became Valparaiso College, then Valparaiso University. In 1858, the Pittsburgh, Fort Wayne and Chicago Railroad reached Valparaiso, connecting the city directly to Chicago, and then it had an interurban to Gary starting in 1910. While the city is no longer important train wise, it's still at the crossroads due to its proximity to I-65, I-80, I-90, and I-94.
City of churches, I had no idea. I’m sure the people in Valparaiso Chile would appreciate that fact!
Thanks, it is amazing to me, many of the cars are in service....years and years later. Same something about how they are built.
Or how little money these agencies have received since…
I like riding on the upper deck when I use the Metra routes. I like to get the bigger picture you get higher up.
I’ve always been an upstairs guy too. I don’t like being at platform level.
Like VRE, MARC had once use Chicago Metra's old Pullman Gallery cars. VRE had some before they bought new gallery cars. They sold the other cars back to Chicago Metra
It took a couple of days for the gallery car to sink in, but I recall being on one, only once, as a kid. I found the upstairs gallery fascinating, it was a big deal to a 4 year old.
I would have loved to ride one of these as a little kid
Thanks for an excellent discussion on Amtrak gallery cars!
When I was in Alaska, I rode the Alaska Railroad between Anchorage and Fairbanks. One of the cars on the train was one of the old Chicago and Northwestern intercity gallery cars. So I can tell you where one of them ended up. Not sure about the others.
Gallery cars as parlor cars and lounge cars were never a great success. The lower deck on the parlor cars had one abreast parlor seating on each side of the aisle, but the upper deck had room only for the single coach seats. So if you sat up there, you got to sit in a coach seat and pay parlor car fare. Not such a good deal! The lounge car on the Bi-level Peninsula 400 was an even more bastard arrangement. I think they even put a bridge from one side of the upper deck to the other for waiters carrying food and drinks to passengers up there. The dining car on the Peninsula was, in fact, an old single-level streamlined diner with a false roof added so from the outside it looked like a gallery car. I think they even put dummy windows on the outside of the roof so it looked like an upper deck. But the lights were never on upstairs. Which probably best describes that arrangement! 😅
The other bi-level intercity train, the Bi-level Flambeau 400 (love those kitschy midwestern train names!) never got gallery parlor or lounge cars. It just carried single-deck parlors, lounges, and diner interspersed with intercity gallery coaches.
The reason for the bi-level 400s was a deal that the railroad made with the state of Wisconsin. In exchange for the new equipment on those trains, they got to eliminate several money-losing passenger trains in Wisconsin. Between Chicago and Green Bay, the railroad ran some of their trains in push-pull fashion, using commuter cab cars at the Chicago end of the trains.
The Rock Island and Milwaukee also had their entries in the kitschy train names category. The Rock Island had the Corn Belt Rocket which I rode a few times. Its equipment was mostly hand-me-down Southern Pacific equipment (in pretty worn-out shape). The Milwaukee Road had the Morning Hiawatha (which sounds like a line from a bad romantic comedy movie!). There was an Afternoon Hiawatha too. They ran back and forth between Chicago and Minneapolis and carried full-length dome cars.
By the way, I love your footage of an HO model Chicago and Northwestern bi-level passenger train!
The HO models are a good friend of mine’s!
Sitting on the upper level is a private seat with a great view and plenty of room for your bags, on the luggage rack.
True Trivia - Earlier designs had a a view block along the upper deck. This was called the “modesty panel”, and existed to block first floor walking patrons from seeing up the skirts of the second floor passengers.
Whoa... The only time I've ever seen and riden on of those things is on NJ Transit from Cranford to NYC Penn Station. I had no idea they had their own name, but you're right, the conductor asked to pucnh my ticket (yes, NJ Transit still litterally punches paper tickets) reaching up from the lower hallway to my upper seat. Thanks for this history!
1st time that I rode those cars was when I was stationed at Chanute AFB in Rantoul Illinois These trainba were regularly scheduled service by Amtrak btw Chicago and Champaign-Urbana in the mid 1980s
I’m glad you done a topic about gallery cars.
I’m glad you enjoyed it
As a young boy, I remember the Chicago and Northwestern running passenger trains, with bi-level cars, to and through Fond du Lac, WI.
I’d love to have seen the bright yellow and green trains!
@@Thom-TRA You might find this funny. The track was about a 1/4 mile or so from our house. And it crossed a county road that I walked on to get to and from grade school. So I did see and hear the trains often. Might be what got me started in loving trains even to this day. Anyway, my paternal grandmother lived and worked in Waukegan, and would take the train up to FDL to come see us. I could never understand why they wouldn't just stop, and let her out on the crossing near our house, instead of making us drive to the FDL station to get her.
Valparaiso, Indiana is named after the way more famous Valparaíso, Chile! In Old Spanish/Castilian, Valparaíso means vale of paradise! Why is it called that? Well the county it's in, Porter County, was named after David Porter who was a naval officer and commanded a number of US ships in the First Barbary War, the War of 1812 and against piracy in the Caribbean. Porter battled in the Battle of Valparaíso (a battle that was a British victory) during the War of 1812, and so it ended up being named after it! Before Valparaiso, it was called Portersville! Love them or hate them, Gallery cars are a part of American rail history. While of course Gallery cars like these shouldn't be made today, it made effective sense for the operators back then.
And then there are the C3s. The C3s aren't Gallery cars, but they're special in that they're bi-levels exclusively used by LIRR diesel trains! The C3s are bi-levels because the platforms on the diesel branches are shorter and so with bi-levels, they still get the capacity they want. They're based off the C1. C1s were built by Tokyu Car Corporation. They were designed by Comeng (an Australian company) who worked with Mitsui, and it was one of their last projects before they ceased to exist in 1990. The reason Comeng didn't follow through with building was because of the instability of their owner Australian National Industries. So they sold the design to Mitsui, and then Mitsui sold it to Tokyu. These C1s were supposed to be part of an experiment to see if they could do a one-seat ride on the partially electrified Port Jeff Branch (not electrified between Huntington and Port Jeff) using dual-modes into Penn. If the experiment was successful (which it was), they'd get a larger order. Which ended up becoming the C3 based on an updated design thanks to feedback. The C3s, however, were built by Kawasaki.
I never knew Tokyu Car built anything for the US. That’s cool! I’m headed to NYC this next week btw
@@Thom-TRA They also built the M2 & M4 EMUs formerly operated by Metro North!
Yes, Amtrak had Gallery cars. They were ex C&NW 400 cars. No offense but I am so glad that AMT in Montreal stopped using them.
Yeah, I answer the question in my video. Kind of the point of the video.
"...european horrified" i think as an asian watcher i feel fhe same 😅
European here: I had to actually watch this video twice just to wrap my head around the concept. Never heard of them before and wish it actually stayed that way 🤣
Not pick: Gallery cars were not in use throughout Canada... CP Rail (now CPKC) purchased 9 gallery cars from Canadian Vickers 2 of which were cab cars. Each had diesel generator for air conditioning and heating. (no HEP locomotives at CP). They were used solely betwen Montréal and Rigaud line. (now the Hudson line). For the 17:15 express, all 9 cars were together and often pulled by 4070, the engine featured in the movie Silver Streak.
During the day, they would break the train into 2. In my days, it was the front 3 cars that made the back/forth during off peak hours and returned in time to be joined with the other 6 cars for the 17:15 express.
After the service was taken over by government, the gallery cars use varried as there were no longer any express trains. When they restarted commuter service to St-Jérome (initially Blainville as tracks to St-Jérome had been removed) they shifted the gallery cars from out line to the Blainville line. They were retired sometime in the 2000s as AMT/EXO purchased more cars (the same as the heavy steel NJ Transit multi0evel cars).
Looking at your video: another difference is the doors were wider to accomodate 3 people going up/down at same time, whereas the trains in the Chicago areas appears to only be wide enough for 2 people going up/down at same time. On a convetional train, east vestibule could let 1 person on/foof at a time, so total 2, whereas with the CP version of gallery cars, it was 3 which was better than conventional cars.
At the time, CP had 1950s cars with stea heat and small sondows that could open in summer (but double windows added for winter, so no ventilation in winter), as well as some Budd RDCs that were built into up to 9 car trains. (those wsere air conditioned). But the gallery ones were the more "luxurious" one due to better AC/heating and better suspension and less oisy than then Budds.
As used by EXO, the multilevels have narrow steep stairs at each end (so 2 in/out total). As used by NJ Transit with level boarding, those have total of 4 single person doors per side and with level boarding makes for far more efficient in/out cycle.
“All over the United States, and Canada.”Not contradictory in my opinion. But I appreciate the summary of gallery car use in Canada.
I don't love or hate those cars, especially since I never rode any other type of cars in the US. The main issue I personally have with these is while sitting on the second floor in summer (as a commuter it may be hard to find an available seat downstairs after getting off work) I get the freezing air from the AC blows directly at my head.
Ah yes, crazy American air conditioning 😂 I’m still getting used to it
It’s funny you talk about most railroads owning gallery cars. And I have a picture of a southern pacific gallery car in my room
Cool! I love vintage train pics as decoration
I rode that valpo local one time. It was about 3 or 4 months before it shut down.
I have never seen that style of carriage in any country but the USA although maybe Canada might have them?Most double decker train carriages have a complete floor between the two levels.... even double decker buses do!Not to forget double decker aircraft like the 747 and A380!
MARC had gallery cars on the Brunswick Line from 2004 to 2015 and my first in service main line train ride was in one, and ofc now VRE has them so they're just the norm for me. I like them especially for the personal seats on top.
When I came into the world, the C&NW was still running steam pulled trains into Wheaton, although they were replaced the following year by diesels. The gallery cars followed soon thereafter. I grew up with them, so to speak. The GO trains in southern Ontario have double deckers, but they're not gallery cars. The seats on the first level are dreadfully uncomfortable, so a lot of people go upstairs. I've often wondered whether all that weight on the upper level might throw the train off balance. But I'm not a physicist, so I'm probably out to lunch on that one.
Wow, steam trains on the C&NW! That’s so cool.
I think two floors is fine with the right structural integrity, though I can come up with a whole host of reasons why there’s probably no triple deckers lol
@@Thom-TRA I’ve linked your Instagram account to a photo that looks like more than a triple-decker tram.
I grew up on these cars. I live in SF and back in the day, Burlingame. I used to take Caltrain to back and fourth from the city with my dad. Mostly to SF Giants games. Unfortunately, the gallery cars on Caltrain are not to last that much longer as they are about to be replaced with the new STADLER electric equipment. Anyone who would like to catch a Caltrain gallery consist should do it as soon as possible before its too late!
I had my chance a few months ago!
are there interior photos of the aforementioned Intercity-spec gallery cars?
After the ex C&NW bilevels were retired by Amtrak, they ended up in Green Bay getting repainted back to green-yellow for Great Lakes Western, an excursion outfit. They were refurbished at the old Milwaukee Road shop here. They were back home in Green Bay, as they had served on the 400's up here from 1958-1971. Don't know what happened to them after 1995 but I worked on them as car attendant and they rode like a Cadillac on rough track. One car had a bar and no upstairs on one end. Seats were very comfortable. Chicago railroads that had gallery cars were Burlington, Milwaukee Road, Rock Island, C&NW, Illinois Central. Southern Pacific had them too out in California. Nice video. Gonna do one on Amtrak's French turboliners that rode like glass? They were awesome and so smooth.
Having since rode them twice, I can (at least partially) answer that! Several of the bar cars ended up with the Alaska Railroad in much the same role! Just like you said with the suspension - definitely my favorite cars in the fleet. Love to see them continue on like that :)
1. Long live railway zealadvocates!!
2. Those four boxy spiral staircases are a challenge for passengers with any more than one piece of hand luggage.
3. The open concept seems better ventilated, this being post-covid and all.
4. Let's keep just one gallery car per rail line for old times' sake then get on with proper bi-level cars.
Railway zealadvocates unite
Again, a very interesting and informative video. Your presentation is very pleasant.
Thank you!
FANTASTIC Video! LOVE IT!
Thanks!
Never ever travelled on one but if they keep operational costs down then surely help public transport agencies keep operating costs and fares down.
Not keen on the stair arrangement though!
When I hear Valpariso I think Chile 🇨🇱
Great video I always wanted to see Amtraks gallery cars!
Crazy to think they Amtrak had them
Wow I didn't know amtrak used to have gallery cars and I thought metra ant CNW had gallery cars
A vaguely related and even more unusual design is the slumber coach, which packs more rooms into a sleeper then you can get with roomettes.
I’ll have to look those up!
@@Thom-TRA I remembered another one that also very rare and is more directly a predecessor of the gallery car. It's called the PRR MP70, or the Long Island railroad double decker. It has an aisle at the normal height and every other set of seats is either raised or lowered relative to the aisle. Like the gallery, the conductor walks down the aisle in can reach the upper and lower seats. But every seat requires climbing up or down to get to from the aisle.
For now I love bombardier commuter cars are the best because has more viewing to other side windows doesn't have blocking briefcase racks plus, no more smelling old farting people from lower section seats while seated upper level on gallery cars. Bombardier cars are twice smoother ride and quiet and wider walkable alley between side seats and wider stairs too. So try it on Caltrain between gallery and Bombardier cars!
How many commuter lines run gallery cars vs other types of bilevel cars?
The Valparaiso trains lost ridership during the 1980s when the South Shore line got new MU cars. It went fr 2 to just one train each way until ended entirely in 1991. A photo of the last trip showed it with a former Metroliner cab car and 2 Horizon coaches.
Only 4 run gallery cars (3 exclusively, 1 runs a mix)
@@Thom-TRACalTrain may retire its gallery cars when its Stadler MUs are fully operational.
I like the gallery cars; rode them for 10+ years to & from Chicago. You could catch a nap upstairs without hassle from fellow passengers in a two seater.
Through the mid-70s I recall 1 or 2 afternoon BN that had a heavyweight combine between the locomotive and the Gallery cars. It was correctly wired for the lights heating AC to pass thru to the newer cars but that 1930 look didn't fit but it carried the p.m. copies of newspapers to the suburbs and didn't get hung up in highway traffic. Wisconsin and Southern wound up with some that they used on small excursions or employee specials. They wanted to start commuter service in the Madison WI area but startup and signaling cost were too much. I believe they still retain a few of their cars and within the last year or so the cars that were used by Iowa Interstate to.shuttle football fans in Iowa City some have moved on to the Dakota and Iowa. In fact Northern Rail Car Company rebuilt some of the cars for VRE and they were located on the WSOR in Milwaukee.
@@Tommy-qx6gj there was a video of some derelict Metra cars in the Arizona desert several years ago but I'm not certain loans them or if they're even still intact. Some of those Iowa Pacific cars were stored on a Industrial Park Railroad near Bensenville but appeared to be so rough a torch may have been the only way out
And yes, the CB&Q. Aka Burlington ran their 1950 built Budd gallery cars with steam locomotives and diesels from the Zephyr pool when they first got them. Weird eh? The CN&W gallery cars only ran with HEP. So they could only be pulled by engines converted to HEP like F7 and E8. None of their E7 models pulled them.
The CB&Q would use a single level generator car before theE8 & E9s got converted to HEP
If I remember, when the CNW were planning there new intercity cars in the late 50s, they were looking to modernise and move away from steam heating as it’s was expensive to maintain the steam generator. So they used an diesel generator that was would work off the the main engines to power the whole train via electricity vs using steam heating to heat the the train in the winter and having individual rechargeable batteries that powered each individual car for the ac and power. At least half or 3/4 of the CNW intercity fleet by the early 60s were HEP equipped and the E8/9 and F7 HEP powered equipped. While the rest of the fleet were still steam heated with the remaining E7 still had their steam generator in place until there retirement in 1971. This also paved the way for their commuter fleet to be equipped with HEP out of the factory while the older bi level cars that came before the ones that were HEP equipped to be converted to HEP from steam heated to work with the rest of the fleet.
In the Bay Area where I live we also have gallery cars on Caltrain and my message to all you railfans is you better ride them before they’re gone. Will be sad to see this unique design go away but electrification is a step in the right direction for Caltrain
The (Amtrak) Capitol Limited did not use the former PRR line thru Valpo...it ran on the former NYC line, as it does currently.
From 1981 to 1990, it did run through Valparaiso. It was rerouted to the NYC line in 1990.
With the labor shortages, gallery cars are also grand when it comes to trying to hunt for more employees. If you have children and many railfans who want to see what the scenery would look like from an engineer's point of view, the upper row gives you that option. Also when you ride past a freight train and see a freight locomotive, just like on a Superliner, you are sitting right up at the same level as the engineer. They can also be attached to a train of single-level coaches.
Gallery cars have one huge problem compared to other bi-level designs: Accessibility. In theory, it should be possible to make them accessible to people using wheelchairs and/or having issues with stairs, but I am unaware of any such modifications. On both the Bombardier "lozenge" cars, and Superliner-style bi-levels, wheelchairs are easy to accommodate, by comparison.
Exactly, the steps are high and the aisles are narrow
@@Thom-TRAif they were modified to have the ability to enter from a high platform, I could see them being made better for accessibility than bi-level cars. If you're in the part of a bi-level car that's level with the platform, and you can't do stairs for whatever reason, you are stuck there. But with gallery cars, you can traverse the whole length of a train without using stairs.
Both of them have parts that are not accessible, but in a gallery car that's a minority of the seats.
The more modern bilevel cars have integrated wheelchair lifts and folding seats near the center vestibule, so accessibility isn't really a problem.
@@SynchroScore Except that a wheelchair lift is more expensive than a portable ramp, and more prone to breaking. Floor height is the real issue with traditional gallery cars. Later bi-level designs feature a lower floor than what was conventional when the gallery cars were designed. I ride trains in southern California often and see both lozenge and Superliner type cars regularly in operation.
I can’t understand why people hate them. They’re pretty cool and unique cars, in the sense they’re the only one of its kind.
There is literally nothing to like about them relative to a modern bilevel.
1. The aisles on the upper levels are extremely narrow, particularly if you have luggage.
2. They're extremely slow for boarding and alighting.
A Chicagoan, I grew up on IC/Metra Electric District; Highliners & Gallery Cars were so normal that my first ride on an Amtrak Superliner in the mid 80s was weird and my first use of NJ Transit bi-levels in the 2000s was novel.
Personal-adjacent facts: The Highliners were first phased in when I was a newborn. We lived in a highrise just a mile from the horrible wreck of 1972. Mom says I was in the highchair for breakfast as all sad hell broke loose nearby.
That’s awful you were so close to the wreck
@@Thom-TRA My Uncle- now a Seattlite- was supposed to be on one of those two trains.
Life is wild. Enjoy it. Great content, Sir.
I love the design of the gallery car mainly cause to the front window the cabcar uses
Illinois Railway Museum operates preserved CNW gallery cars also utilizing a cab car.
Awesome
@@Thom-TRA We also have both of Metra's F7s, one of which is painted back as C&NW 411, so we can do a proper Northwestern commuter service from the mid-70s. Now we just have to get some Budd bilevels to pull around with the Burlington E9s.
I wonder if Metra or Amtrak could restore service to this town in Indiana?
Probably not Metra, perhaps the south shore
I enjoy the video👍👍
Yay!
I used to ride the Southern Pacific gallery cars that were painted in the dark lark gray color! I used to commute from San Francisco to San Jose daily, and I found them to be quite comfortable!
In the mid 70's I would ride Amtrak to college in Carbondale IL. In that era, using old hand me down Illinois Central equipment Amtrak struggled to keep operable rolling stock in service on the Shawnee. Heat and cooling often did not work. On at least two occasions they used C&NW gallery cars on that route, which still bore the C&NW livery.
Crazy they still bore their old livery!
@@Thom-TRA It was the tail end of the "rainbow era". The Carbondale trains eventually got Amfleet cars.
As you mentioned VRE is one of the operators of Gallery Cars. The interesting story behind VRE is that when they started they lease Bombardier cars from the Seattle Sounder transit authority. It seems Sounder had more cars than it needed as their northern line wasn't in service yet and VRE needed more cars. The leased cars ran along side VRE's original Mafersa single level cars that were built in Brazil. These cars are still in use in Connecticut by CT Rail. The Sounder cars featured level boarding (ADA compliant), wider stairs and full width floors on both levels. What's interesting here is that VRE was setup from the start as a Proof Of Payment (POP) service where conductors don't have to check/lift everyone's ticket. Therefore there's no need for the opening in the middle of the car. Fare inspectors routinely do ticket checks now and then with fines if you don't have a ticket.
So, how did VRE end up with Gallery cars? Well, as service expanded in the Seattle area Sounder wanted it's cars back. To fill the gap VRE obtained 50 Gallery cars from Metra starting in 2001. When Metra ordered new Gallery cars from Nippon Sharyo an "add-on" order was placed by VRE. I'm of the camp that believes Gallery cars have served their purpose but are an outdated design and need to go. VRE should have ordered Bombardier cars but with limited funding where every dollar counts instead went with the Metra "add-on" route. So if VRE cars look and feel like the same cars you rode in Chicago now you know why.
BTW - if you search TH-cam for "VRE - Virginia Railway Express with Sounder Equipment - 2005" you'll find a short video of a VRE train with Sounder cars. Some have been re-lettered for VRE while others still have Sounder on their sides.
I never knew this piece of history! Thanks for sharing
Fun Fact: VRE is also ordering Alstom Coradia Multilevel cars.
@@maas1208 Interesting, I didn't know that. Sounds like VRE is taking the add-on route again with Metra. Being as FedGov (biggest employer in the DC area) is ordering most employees back to the office I'm sure VRE will need the extra equipment. With low level platforms (ADA) and POP ticketing these are just the type of cars VRE needs.
Speaking of add-on options CT Rail in Connecticut just ordered 60 single level cars with options for 300 more. I figure it will be Metro North or MBTA getting in on this action.
@@erichhouchens3711 So Technically VRE riders can relive that Bombardier BiLevel car luxury with the New Alstom Coradia Multilevel cars, Also I heard that the Coradia Multilevels are going to start production in 2024.
@@erichhouchens3711 Also I'm Pretty sure that the Coradias that are being ordered by Metra are meant to Replace the Gallery Cars that were built by the Pullman Company and the Budd Company (which the oldest date back to the 1950s/1960s and newest date back to the 1970s/1980s), The Morrison-Knudsen/Amerail Gallery Cars (Built in the 1990s) and the Nippon Sharyo Gallery Cars (built in the 2000s) are staying tho. While the VRE Coradias are meant to supplement the Nippon Sharyo Gallery Cars which built in the 2000s & 2010s.
I knew a bit about these Amtrak gallery cars, but I didn't know they operated until as late as 1994!
Also, to answer your question about if there is unusual equipment where I'm from, I'll answer by saying that I am from San Diego, California (home to the _Pacific_ _Surfliner_ and other equipment), where most of the railroad equipment is quite generic. However, there is some equipment here that may qualify:
1. In North County, San Diego, there is a diesel-powered light rail service called _Sprinter,_ which uses the only Siemens Desiro cars in North America (Desiro cars are normally found in Europe and some parts of Asia).
2. In Campo, California, the Pacific Southwest Railway Museum has a variety of equipment from the Southwest's history. However, there is also one singular ex-Metra gallery cab car, now known as CZRY 8758* (CZRY indicates that it was once owned by the Carrizo Gorge Railway, a former freight operator on the San Diego-Tijuana border).
3. On the opposite side of the border, there is a tourist train from Tijuana to Tecate, Mexico. That train uses some more gallery cars, hauled by EMD locomotives that are also used for local freight rail operations. If you want to find "Geeps" hauling gallery cars (on what I believe may be the southernmost gallery car operation), you can go to Tijuana.**
Anyways, thanks for the video!
*for the gallery car in Campo: www.rrpicturearchives.net/rsPicture.aspx?id=1231709
**for the tourist train in Tijuana: www.sandiegored.com/en/news/250118/TijuanaTecate-tourist-train-has-been-reactivated-Dont-miss-this-unique-experience-in-Baja-California
I’ve always wanted to ride the Sprinter!
I'm glad you're interested in it, @@Thom-TRA! If I ever wind up in Oceanside, I think I'll make sure to film it!
Three EX Amtrak/C&NW RTA BI Level gallery cars are Preserved. And they are cab car units 9622, 9624 and 9613.
Where are they preserved at?
I like the older gallery cars with the "flip" seats. The newer cars with stationary seats, half of the passengers must ride "backwards". Per my observation most people prefer the forward facing seats.
I know Caltrain had them for a while and are phasing them out as they electrify. I personally like them because I liked sitting alone in the upper deck of the train.
Caltrain still has them! I rode one in May
On gallery cars I like to go far to the back of the upper level (second from the rear if I can get it) -- not only do you get a seat to yourself, but you don't get anyone walking past you. It's perfect for taking a nap!
I like the gallery cars. When I took VRE, the single seat on the top level was best.
Honest question: if you think gallery cars are outdated, what do you think would serve as a better alternative?
Most other bilevel designs, that have two full floors with more seating and more doors.
Amtrak also used these cars between Milwaukee and Chicago on The Hiawatha. If I remember correctly, they were push-pull with former GO Transit (Toronto) engines.
I am quite litteraty in valpo right now visiting family. We take the south shore to Dune Park, then the V line bus connection. What a coincidence, I never knew that Amtrak ran a train here. And those phase 3 gallery cars are pretty strange. Thanks for the video!
That’s good to know there’s a bus to the SSL
I think this isn't the only Amtrak car based on a commuter design. There's also the Horizon Cars (Based on the Comet Commuter Car Design) and even Amtrak Retrofitted and Luxurified some ex-NJT Comet 1-Bs built in the 1970s for use on the Amtrak California Trains in the northern part of the state.
Yes. Part of the reason why horizon cars are so terrible lol.
Gallery cars made their only West Coast appearance in the Southern Pacific Peninsula Commute service between San Jose and San Francisco, starting in 1955. All gone by 1985.
They’re still on Caltrain
@@Thom-TRA True. I should have been more specific that the original Pullman-Standard, and American Car & Foundry gallery cars were all retired by 1985.
I'm a big CNW fan I've always been so curious about the interiors of those Gallery cars they used for the "400's". (especially I always wish the Flambeau/Green bay 400 was still running! ;-; ). I heard the dinner car that CNW had had a false roof the match the others gallery cars on the outside. It's so interesting to me because it's different from the current Amtrak Super liners today, were today the passage way from car to car is on the second level.
I get the idea behind these cars and it does make sense. But especially on longer routes I don’t really see the advantage vs regular double decker wagons. Walking through the train takes time, sure. But checking the tickets is the part which takes the majority of the conductors time and that’s surely not sped up by people needing to reach down from the upper deck. Especially during a time where tickets weren’t QR codes and they actually had to read and void a paper ticket (or even sell them, not sure how that was handled). So, you save like 30s of the conductor climbing the stairs and walking through the train car a third time once he’s done with both decks, but lose about 1/4 of the seats, meaning the train is longer overall.
So, I got interested if the Americans were just ahead of the time and therefore went for this strange design. So I looked up when Germany introduced them, apparently in the 1860s, so I guess that excuse is out of the window. But what really caught my eye was a picture taken in 1957 of an eastern German steam locomotive, pulling cars that look like they could still be in service today. Apparently the design of these German double decker cars really has not changed that much in the last 70 years and putting them behind a steam locomotive makes them look impressively futuristic.
The advantage was more that it can prevent fare evasion. If a conductor is on one floor, people can’t go to the other floor.
“Just because there are much better options doesn’t mean they can’t be fun to ride.” That’s a perfect description of why you make “Trains Are Awesome” and why you have so many happy followers.
Thanks for this comment :) it made my day
That Is A Single Decker Gallery Train, A Deck With Balcony Seat Rows
There Are Trains In The Liberty Land, That Are Tourist Trains
Platform Level Vestibules
A Ground Level Deck & A Scenery Deck Level
Singular Ground Level Trains With A Scenic Deck
Amtrak Has Train Carriages That Are For Tours
They Are Low Entry Trains
There Is An Entry-Level
And The Main-Level
If A Train Has Three Decks, Then It Is Called A Tri-Level Carriages
Well done. Now we know. Yes it would be nice to preserve an Amtrak gallery car especially for excursion service.
Wait, the South Shore also has Gallery cars and was not on your map!
The south shore has highliner emus, which are a separate class of Railcar. They do have an identical interior, which is why I mentioned them specifically at the 3:30 mark. Have you made it to that part yet?
I grew up off the BNSF line and metra gallery cars were just the standard train cars for me until I got older and realized how weird they actually are lol. Bit biased but I love them
Same here, I still don’t think they’re weird.
same
As a European I think they're utterly bizarre 😆
@@paulthiel5145 you gotta grow up with them.
@@Mr.E723 well that clearly didn't happen in my case 😁
About 1:00 you said you never met someone in different gallery cars… I am probably in that rare breed but then again, I’ve only ridden them once, and that was on the VRE back in 2013
Nice to meet you then!
@@Thom-TRA hey is there a way I can message you privately I wanted to talk to you about an Amtrak graveyard near me
@@shsav2012 yeah, do you have Instagram? Otherwise I’ll give you my email
There are only two famous people from Valparaiso, Orville Redenbacher and Jacob the Carpetbagger
I’ll have to brush up on my history, I’ve never heard of the two 😅
Aww, Totoro ❤
In the Nevaada desert are abandoned Gallery cars
Caltrain could probably give Amtrak some of their gallery cars, as they no longer use those cars and instead use bombardier bi-level cars and Stadler KISS EMU train cars.
The Caltrain cars are going to Peru!
Actually the Tokyo monorail from Haneda to Hamamatsucho station is the best public transport from the airport into the city. They also do a great job running local and airport express trains throughout the day. It is on par with Vienna's CAT. Washington D.C. silver line is an abomination although it is better than nothing. So, I'm not so anti-monorail as you. I also found the Wuppertalbahn very useful.
I’m not anti-monorail either. I lived in Tokyo for 10 years and used the Tokyo monorail often.
I’m getting so tired of people mishearing me and putting words in my mouth. Stop doing it.
I’m pretty indifferent to gallery cars since I’ve never ridden one, but the fact they can’t be used with high platforms and only have one entry point per side doesn’t seem very efficient to me, and then there’s the accessibility problem. But I can see where they would have nostalgic charm in regions where they’ve been used, same as I’m pre-emptively mourning the Arrows since NJT announced their eventual replacement.
Exactly. They’re a terrible design for the 21st century. But a nostalgic nod to the 20th century.
Gallery cars can be used with high platforms. The Metra Electric and South Shore cars operate with high platforms at floor level.
@@SynchroScore fair enough. I guess I wasn’t considering the electric variant because unlike the push/pull cars they haven’t turned up on systems besides Metra, but still they do prove you can make level boarding work with the basic gallery car layout.
@@de-fault_de-fault They could convert the cab cars into Highliner EMUs
I don't really see a problem with gallery cars especially for commuter trains. I can see how it might get uncomfortable for long distance routes but you just need to put in comfier seats and it's all good
The main argument people have is capacity I think
Good Day Curly_fries! I've just seen Thom-TRA video about Amtrak Galley Cars, dated from 7 months ago, plus your reply "I don't really see a problem with gallery cars....".
While I cannot provide a live link, I believe a final government report may be available about the crash of Illinois Central gallery coaches on what is now named Metra Electric in Chicago in 1972:
One train of older, single-level coaches "telescoped" into another train of gallery coaches which was stopped.
Some passengers were killed outright while others were severely injured, trapped in the galleries; each set of double-doors, one per side per coach, offered little for an escape since several were jammed. As well, this event took place before coach windows were fitted for emergencies. I believe it can be safe to say that in total, the gallery design of such rail equipment was a death trap for those passengers involved.
And further, it is an onus on the Metra leadership that such a design was specified for new passenger coach orders from the 1970's until the 2020's, my opinion.
@@michaelsmith9590 I didn't even think about the older ones not having emergency windows, the ones on the gallery car I was on recently could flip outward, thanks for the info!
Caltrain has various model years of Gallery Cars.
I grew up with the Gallery Cars on the North Shore and would ride them all the time into Chicago. I am used to them and honestly enjoy them. Living in DC now, the MARC bi-levels just don’t hit the same way. I almost cried the first time I rode the VRE when I heard them play the exact same “Caution! The doors are about to close” jingle as Metra.
You mentioned that VRE has some newer Gallery Cars, but I also thought they got much of their rolling stock from Metra, as I’ve seen VRE cars in the yard by Western Avenue in Chicago. Plus that door jingle. Did VRE order some of their own stock, as well as take from Metra?
Yes, they have both old Metra cars and newer cars built for themselves.
I wonder if Caltrain considers selling their gallery cars to LOSSAN for the Surfliner service.
I highly doubt they would. Not compatible with their existing fleet.
Wow ! What a fabulous video ! I love Gallery cars and have ridden on so many I could write a book. Amtrak used some ex Chicago and North Western Gallery cars on the Milwaukee route in the late 1980s. The cars were marshalled either side of a Amfleet 1 coach car, and top and tailed by former Go Transit GP40TCs ! I rode on them several times, and the cars that I rode on were ex NorthWestern Inter City cars which had been used on their 400 series services between Chicago and Minneapolis, and Green Bay. Truly wonderful memories. Today I really enjoy the VRE gallery cars, which are so well kept, and a pleasure to ride on !
Many thanks indeed.
I’d wait in line to be the first to buy that book!
@@Thom-TRA I trust you are enjoying your life in DC, and sometimes taking a ride on VRE ! Whilst the gallery car concept is now outdated, one must give credit to the Burlington and C&NW for being so far sighted when they first introduced those cars. There is a wonderful book by Mike Schafer called “All Aboard Amtrak” published by Railpace Company in 1991. Do try and get a copy !
@@anthonywarrener1881 I am enjoying DC and took my first trip out on the Manassas line a few weeks ago!
As someone who has lived on the San Francisco peninsula for about three decades, I have been a Caltrain rider off and on that entire time. I didn’t realize how unusual our gallery cars are!
My total train experience is Chicago and Los Angeles, so I had no idea that Gallery Cars are controversial. Meh.
When I first moved to Chicago in the 1980's I had to try riding the Amtrak commuter train to Valparaiso from Chicago and my memory is I did it twice. I do remember both upstairs and downstairs, seats had cushions and reclined. In the 1980's Greyhound and Trailways had some intercity buses which stopped at Valparaiso enroute to Chicago.
Hey Thom, did you see the video link I sent of the Amtrak bilevels on Saturday?
Was it on Instagram? Or email? I share accounts with my brother so I’m really sorry if I missed it
@@Thom-TRA it was on your TH-cam video of the gallery cars in the beginning of the posts. In the Amtrak Gallery Cars video from this past Saturday.
The model train version of the Amtrak Gallery car is hard to find. They are a rarity. Also I went to see the new Caltrain EMUs today and met of with some railfans like us. Some of them have heard of your TH-cam Channel and some don't. For those who don't I introduced your channel to them. Those who do know your TH-cam channel had the same wish as me, to meet you in person.
I rode the 9600 series cars in the early 1990's between Chicago and Milwaukee. Pretty nice riding.
I love the RTA BI Level gallery cars and I wish Amtrak still had them.